 We mentioned control in the sense that the parties do not have interests of certain people. That's what you mentioned. Please clarify, in terms of interests, who's interest are you talking about, that political parties in Kenya do not have interests of people? Which people? Okay, fine. When I talk of having the interest of the electorates, and I would mantra or reiterate, the interest of the electorates will mean that, Ram, let's talk of the smaller parties because I'm talking about we are having over 160 registered political parties in this country. The question is if really the political parties were solving the problems of the electorates, today would have been talking about scrambling for nomination certificates or nomination forms in the name of you are going to run for a party, I mean in the name of you are under political party or maybe over the Havana. But what you need to understand is that these small parties, what are their benefits to the electorates? These big parties, what are their interests to the electorates? These are only vehicles that are being used for business ventures. Why do I say so? The political parties. Yes. Why do I say so? The reason as to why, look at it this way. You have a political party, almost everybody is contesting, I mean the elective seats in that party from the national all the way to the what, these people are paying the nomination fee. Look, I mean let's get example of like you have 20 people contesting for let's say the governorship or maybe the senate. Do you know how much they pay for the nomination? Who audits these political parties? Do you know the state funds the political parties with the taxpayers' money? But who audits the political parties I mean accounts? So that is why we missed it because the money cannot be audited, but the people who are actually running around making the party to be stronger, making the party to be famous, making the party to have the euphoria, nobody takes them to account. So to me I think immediately, I mean there is need, to me I think there is need for us first of all to ask why is it that the electoral management body is not given any authority to audit the political parties fund. Number two, we have also to ask why is it that it is easier for people to step down before elections or immediately after elections you will hear that there are some political parties promises whereby Ramas been promised this so you can actually shelf down your ambitions for somebody. We need to criminalize that so that we know why people are always running for these seats but immediately they are supposed to be getting to the ballot, they step down or they form collisions or maybe alliances. Who is this interested in this? So you are saying that political parties have weak internal systems? Basically. Yes. I don't know why Kalmax is so hell bent on the matter of political parties and nomination certificates and how much they charge. He has really emphasized on that. He has emphasized on that. I don't know why that ODM denied him a nomination but then what I disagree a lot with Kalmax is we cannot be able to say that it is wrong for people to step down in political parties. Politics is an art of negotiation and therefore it's negotiation for the better good and sometimes people will step down, people will compromise for the sake of the better good and it is part of politics. So you feel it's okay for someone to jump from one party to the other based on their belief? Exactly. That is why political parties are supposed to have varied beliefs so that when I don't believe in the vision of my party I can then move to the other party. Now the problem is, the only problem is most of the time politicians will rarely move because of the belief system or the ideology system but they will actually move because of now maybe being denied a party certificate or actually losing in the party primaries. Ram the problem in Africa is that there is no politician who loses elections. All of them are denied. So every time someone feels denied then they then move to the next political party. But it is not wrong for political parties to have negotiations and there is something Kalmaks said about all political parties being funded in the republic. I also wish to disagree because as it stands now only two political parties are being funded by the state and that is ODM and Jubilee and it is the responsibility of the office of the registrar of political parties to hold them to account. So we have someone who is supposed to hold them to account. Whether they are doing their job or not is a question of another day but actually not all political parties are being funded by the state especially in regard to after the 2010 constitution there is a threshold to which when you don't meet you cannot be funded and as it stands now only two political parties in Kenya meet the threshold and therefore only two are being funded. Now whether they are being audited or not is a question of another day but whether there is someone who should audit them then that person is there. Whether they are doing their work then I cannot be sure about that.