 Your skin is often a reflection of your health. A lot of people don't know this, but your gut health can show up on your skin. Your immune system can show up on your skin. You can have thyroid issues, diabetes. Lots of things can show up on your skin. So your skin, although not perfect, might be an easy way to tell whether or not something is going on on the inside. So pay attention to how your skin looks. If you notice lots of changes, it might be more than just your skin. It's a direct shot of me or what? What does my sunburn tell you, Sal? Hold on a second. Why were you looking at the sun directly? I didn't even notice that in the last part. I didn't even notice in the last part you had your bill so well I didn't even pick up on the red you off, bro. Oh my God. I was in the desert. You were totally hiding right, dude. Oh man. You looked like a piece of bacon. I mean, it looked like you covered everywhere else, but you just missed your face or what? No, it's all here. It is. You look like you watched a nuclear explosion go off and you were just far enough to not die. Hey, was it really hot there this weekend? Yeah, it was really hot. It was like 105. Hold on. Do you have caldera here? Have you tried this on a sunburn? No. It's the best thing ever. The serum. The serum. For sunburn. I have tried that. It makes a big difference. Yeah. It makes a huge difference. Lube him up, Doug. He's a little far away. Otherwise I would. You know, back to the skin thing. You know, what's crazy about this is that you'll often hear from doctors that it isn't a health issue. They'll say, oh, you have a lot of acne. Oh, what about the food I'm eating, Doc? Or what's going on? No, no, no, it has nothing to do with the food you're eating. Are you sure when I eat this food I notice I break out. My dermatologist told me that for years. This is just genetic thing. That's the gift you get. They don't even say that. Okay. And Sal, you probably know better than any of us as far as like, if it's what the studies aren't conclusive. And so they, and because they have steroids and prescriptions to give you to tamp down whatever it is that's being expressed on your skin, they default that way versus going. There was like no, when I came in to see a dermatologist about my psoriasis the first time, every time for that matter, there was never a conversation like, what does your diet look like? And have you ever had, have you had any sort of food intolerance, like nothing around that whatsoever? Or do you take, do you put certain products on your skin? Nothing like that. It was purely like, oh, well, we have this, this and this for that. And I asked the questions, by the way. I know. So how long ago was that? Oh, that was years ago. Long time ago, right? Yeah, yeah. So with psoriasis they know it's an autoimmune issue, right? So they know that the immune system is attacking skin. And that's about as far as it went. They know it's like, she said autoimmune, like she knows that. But then, and then that was what triggered me as a trainer. I go, oh, it's autoimmune. So this is probably diet related then. Like, so what are some of the most? And she was just like, oh, she just dismissed it. Yep. Yep. And now the reason they did that, now they might actually connect it, but the reason why they did that was because they were enabled, they never really connected except for allergies, like, like food allergies or something like celiac. They never connected food to, you know, causing issues with the immune system, making it maybe hypervigilant. We now have data that shows that. So they might change their tune now, although I'm not sure. But for things like acne, they'll still say, no, none of those things have an effect. It doesn't affect. Now that's crazy because we know acne is caused or at least exacerbated or at least it plays a role in terms of the bacteria on your skin. In fact, traditional acne treatments aim to kill the bacteria on your skin. So you use something with like salicylic acid or benzoic peroxide. So like what's it called clear cell, right? That's benzoic peroxide or the washes salicylic acid. What do they do? They kill bacteria. That's what they do. And that's kind of how they work. So they know that the microbiome on your skin has something to do with your, with acne, but they don't connect the microbiome in the gut and how that affects it. Or like, so it's me, it's crazy. Is it too much of a reach to say, like, that is similar to what happens with an antibiotic when someone gives you an antibiotic. Like you putting this cream on your face, your skin is an organ. It has its own microbiome. It goes in there and nukes all this stuff to clear your skin up. Isn't that the same concept of what we do? Except on the skin. Yeah, we take an antibiotic because we've got some sort of issue in our gut or like that and it just kills everything, but including the healthy microbiome, which that's the same thing that's happening on the fit. Right? Is that, am I not explaining that right? Yeah. It'll basically disinfect to in essence the skin. And now you need a healthy microbiome on your skin, just like you need it in your gut and anywhere else in your body. It plays a role in our health. We have a symbiotic relationship with bacteria. We need them and a good microbiome on your skin or in your mouth or in your gut, promotes good health. For example, if you have a good microbiome in your mouth, we know that it can prevent things like cavities. In fact, here's something that's interesting. Mouthwash. Mouthwash kills bacteria in the mouth. Repeated use of mouthwash can actually, now they've connected it to insulin resistance because the bacteria in the mouth plays a role in how the body or how your insulin, your body reacts to insulin when you do some things that cause them. Right? So it is interesting. We don't view it that way traditionally, but look, here's, look, you know the example, we just talked about caldera. If you go to, and you get like traditional skin care, here's what they do. They strip the skin first. So they take everything off, all the oils and everything. And then what they do is they try to replace it with synthetic alternatives to the oils on your face. And does it work? It can. But again, you're trying to replace what nature can do better. We talked about caldera earlier. Caldera doesn't try to do that. Caldera actually tries to use natural oils and botanicals that support your skin's natural oils that support your natural microbiome on your skin. This is why people like it so much. It actually works with your skin versus against it. But the skin is the largest organ in the body. And look, here's your hint right here. One of the clearest signs, okay, one of the things that will make someone not attractive to you. Remember attractiveness is based off of fertility, fertility is based off of health, okay? On its basic level. I know it can get much more complex and people can be weird and all, whatever. But ultimately, if you display signs of health that you're attractive and this has to do with your ability to procreate and all that stuff. One of the number one things that will make someone seem not attractive is poor skin. And everybody will say that, man and women. That's because it is an outward reflection of poor health, of potential poor health. It's that strong of a signal. And we tend to ignore it. Or we tend to try to patch it up with drugs. Yeah, it's actually funny because I'll walk around public with Courtney. She's got her nursing background. And so she literally can tell me what kind of conditions certain people have just looking at people's skin. Oh really? Yeah. And so I don't know what it's called in necrosis or where it's got the little... Oh cholesterol issues. Yeah, so stuff like that. And then also diabetes. Yes. And you see signs of that within folds of the skin and around the neck. So she'll point things like that out to me all the time unless she can't help herself. It'd be kind of like us watching somebody squat. Or move. I do that when I see people's ankles or their shoe soles. I'll walk behind someone and see their gate. And I'm telling her, I bet they have knee pain or their hips are probably... That guy's hips bothering him for sure. She's like, what? I wonder if a fitness expert could pretend to be a psychic. I'm going to tell you all about it. You have left knee pain. Of course they can. What are you talking about? You used to use that to sell training. What are you talking about? We all did. When I tapped into that, I was like... Yeah, but you didn't act like you were psychic. No, I didn't go like, you know, hold on. I didn't do anything. Put your hand right here. Ooh, you got left pain on your left lower back. Bro, if you did that, that would be hilarious. Let me consult the cards real quick. Maybe Doug, look up hypercholestemia. I think it's called for the skin. That's where they get like... It looks like dark skin in the little tag or something. Dark skin tags. I think it has to do with like a lipid profile being off. I might be wrong. I don't even know what that looks like. Have you ever seen someone? Usually they're a little heavy. You almost want to like scrape it off. It looks like it's dirt, but it's dark. Oh, okay, yeah. Now that you're saying that, you're describing like that. Okay. Oh, interesting. I think it has to do with blood lipids or something to do with that. I don't know. I might be wrong. Let's see if Doug can figure it out. Yeah. So we know it's like really obvious health conditions now we're connecting. Oh, is that it? Cholesterol symptoms in the skin, yeah. Yeah, with the eyelids one is the one I think I've seen before. And then also I guess... That's called xanthel... Xanthel plasma. Yeah. So there's obvious ones that doctors will notice, but like the more common stuff that we just accept is like, oh, this is what happens to people. Hormone imbalances is a big one. Yeah, I mean this is silly. Ask any woman. Is your skin the same throughout your whole cycle? A lot of women will say no. Oh, this is when I break out. This is when my skin... This is when my skin tends to look the best or whatever. It's your hormones. Which I mean, and another example is that when you see guys that take too much testosterone, they break out, they get acne. Some people do. Some people don't. How is that? Well, I mean, so that's the same thing. Some people have poor diet and it expresses itself in the skin. Some people have poor diet and it doesn't express itself in the skin. So I think it's the same. Yeah, I knew a guy that took a little bit of anabolic way back in the day. Bro, he broke out in boils. Oh, wow. Yeah, he was one of my sales guys. And it like, terrible boils all over his back and chest. I was like, wow, wow. Not worth it. That is unfortunate. Yeah. I remember meeting people competing that were like that and they were, and I'm like, why are you doing this? Like, why would you even... Like, if that's your reaction to taking testosterone, like, do you really care about the fucking plastic trophy that much? I know. It's a while to me that you would still push through that. It's like, so, I don't know, weird. How bad you want to win something or achieve something like that that you would... Yeah. You think that the abs are going to replace like this skin. Well, now I look good. No, you don't. Yeah, no. Yeah, I think you would look... You look healthier and better, you know, and probably more attractive to your original point with healthier skin but less abs, right? Yeah. I mean, I wonder how... That'd be an interesting, like, test. Like, show me a ripped person and their skin's all fucked up or show me somebody who's like... You just get a random, like, a bunch of girls to evaluate, kind of like they do with the facial recognition stuff, you know, whether or not it's like masculine features or more feminine features, like what they're more tend to... Yeah, my guess would be the healthy skin would be the more attractive thing. I would think the healthy skin would be higher priority. Of course, most of us are more obsessed with looking ripped than what most people even find that attractive. So, I mean, evolutionarily speaking, poor skin, it meant poor health or it meant contagious disease or mites or fleas or something like that, which, you know, you don't want... You don't want that if you're in a tribe. All right, back to the show. Did we talk about the lady on the plane that they identified her face and they talked about it? Yeah, we talked about it. Because you brought up the picture and then we talked about it because... There was another video that came out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they keep doing it. No, no, they keep analyzing it. Oh, again? I think so. No, you talked about the percentage of the... Yeah. Yeah, no, you talked about that already. So weird. I'm telling you. Yeah, dude. I was trying to describe that actually this weekend we got in a really funny conversation with my brother-in-law and I was educating them on this lady and the phenomenon behind it and all that kind of stuff and lizard people and all that. It got really sideways. We had to stop talking about it because we were at a fine-dining restaurant. We were like, what are we talking about, you guys? We didn't change the subject. Hey, you know that big Loch Ness monster search party? Yeah. Did you see the picture that they caught? Well, I mean it's in Scotland, but I know that in England they had a bunch of people. No, I didn't. Is that what it was? Yeah. Oh yeah, I did see it. Yeah, some lady actually got a picture. They got a photo. I don't know if Doug can look it up. They actually found... Is it another well penis? No. It was like a huge little hump. It definitely looked like... I mean, they're like it was swimming. It was something. There's something there. What are they gonna find? I don't know. That one actually looked maybe it was an eel. I don't know. Oh, that's what they said. It could be a giant something eel. Yeah. Which would also be weird. What's it doing? Well, I didn't really get much sense of scale with that though like in terms of how big it was. They said it was pretty big. They said it was big, but... Did your brother-in-law not know about the plain lady? Or did he know about the plain lady? No, he didn't know about it. That's so... I mean, Jordan saw it. We just had it in the studio, right? And first thing he saw was that he was like, Oh my God, that picture is epic. He was like, yes. I'm like, some people don't know that story. I'm like, I thought that was one of the most viral things that's happened this year. I'm actually kind of jealous. It actually shows like how much we are... Like we have to pay attention to nonsense on our phones all the time just to like talk about things. I know. It would be nice to not know. Yeah. I was like, wow. I was almost jealous of them. I'm like, oh man, you guys don't even know that. Hey, speaking of that, I thought that was really interesting. You know, not to hijack Jordan's tip, but I thought that was... Sal asked him a great question like some of like, you know, what are some of the most basic foundational like health and fitness tips? You know, and I know Sal was searching for the, you know, the processed foods and the walk, which he of course said all those types of things. And one of the things he added in there was like, avoid the news. Yeah. You know, that was a really cool like, you know, I wouldn't have thought that as like a top five basic tip to somebody like that. And then he went on to talk about how right now he's measuring his blood pressure. I know. And how there is a very clear difference in his average blood pressure level when he takes off not watching it. That's pretty alarming. That's hell alarming. We think about that. I think that happens at me too. It's a great thing to test. Look, it's a fact. You want to feel out of control and disempowered and stressed out? Look at problems you can't influence. Yeah. And keep looking at problems. Keep eating about it. You can't influence. That is a terrible feeling. This is what parents will do to their kids sometimes. They'll tell them about all these problems kids have no influence or no ability to do anything with. And they wonder why their kids are so stressed out. This happens to you too. You hear about these massive, crazy problems, what's happening all the way across the world. Oh my God. Can't do anything about it. I'm just sitting here disempowered, afraid. You're better off not knowing. And then if there's something that will affect you, you're probably going to find out no matter what. Think about it. If it's going to happen around here, it's going to affect you. You don't need to go looking on the news. I'm going to go walk up to Justin. Bro, did you see what happened down the street? Right. Well, I mean, what is that? Like why, I feel like some people, they want to take on all of the problems from everywhere. They feel like it's almost like they're not as good of a human if they don't acknowledge all these horrible things. I think that's justification. I think we're naturally addicted to hearing bad news because it used to mean survival. That's what it meant. Because you know an example that would prove that that's probably not the main theory of why we do it is why do we watch NASCAR? Drive around 500 times in a circle. You know what I'm saying? Why you watch it is for the possibility of a crash. There's something that we're drawn to that like destruction or bad drama. Yeah. So it's more to it than just the virtue signaling piece of being more informed. I think that's the afterwards, right? Because then someone confronts them about it like, why do you watch the news? Just turn it off. Well, I need to be informed. Yeah. Don't you want to know what's happening in the world? I've actually done a bunch and I'm like, do you though? Not really. I was listening to Joe Rogan interview Bill Maher. Did you listen to that one, Justin? I just started that one. Yeah, on my way over. Yeah, so they had a big conversation and they were talking about, so Bill Maher, very controversial guy. He says a lot of stuff that he used to be on a show. Got kicked off because he said something once. He's always controversial, Bill Maher. And I appreciate him because he does say what he wants. But he's consistent with his viewpoints. But did you hear what he said gets him the most flack? Yeah. When he's talking about how being fat is not healthy for you. Talk about obesity? Yeah. He's like, nothing gets me more hate than when I bring up obesity. Well, let's be honest. Nothing would unite people against him than that. I know. There's more, like going left or right, there's a pretty even divide of people on that. But going against obese people, you're outnumbered. There's a way greater percentage of people that are either overweight, really overweight or obese than there are that people that saw. Talk about offending everybody. Totally. And what interested me when I was listening to it was how Rogan and him were trying to talk about the causes of obesity and how they were so wrong. Yeah. They were wrong. They were looking at the wrong things. And obviously, the longer we've done this, the more we realize what the real issues are. But they were blaming so many things like, oh, it's sugar. Yeah, the sugar industry, you know, they want to put out false information in the past and oh, it's these chemicals. And oh, it's this, it's like, actually, it's actually quite simple. Is that we eat more engineered food that makes us overeat and we don't move as much. It's literally that simple. There's a lot of complexities to it. But that's it. But hearing them talk about all the components and not realizing there's something in common with all this stuff. And it's not that it's just sugar or just this. Are you guys yelling at your... I mean, yeah. I was listening. I was like, I wish I was there. I was like, oh, I wish I was here on the show so I could kind of... I mean, they're concerned about the right things, but yeah, I don't think they're nailing like the true cause of it all. Well, like you said, I think there's such a simpler way to say it. Yes. There's nuances. Yes. There's individual variants to people that have certain conditions, but generally speaking, hyper-palatable foods, highly processed foods, causes people to have poor behaviors around eating food. And if we had less access to food and it was only whole foods, it would be so much easier to maintain. It's not like the same desires or wants that didn't exist two, three hundred years ago. Just you didn't have foods that caused those behaviors. We didn't have drugs like foods. Yeah, to be triggered all the time. So I mean, it is really a lot simpler. I was listening to it on the way home from Truckee as I was eating candy, right? So they're having this conversation. I stopped at the gas station. Wait a minute. You're honest. No, well, I stopped at the gas station and something I'll do sometimes if I feel like I want to stay awake is I'll have like hard candy because I could keep it in my mouth and it kind of occupies me, keeps me awake, right? So I bought, don't judge me, butterscotch discs. So I know it's an older thing. Oh, you are getting old, bro. I've always liked them. Those Werther's originals, man. No, that's not butterscotch, bro. Is it? No. Butterscotch is like... Oh, yeah, that's like chewy caramel. No, no, no, no. It's the yellow rapper. Yeah, yeah. It's the yellow rapper. Oh, yeah, yeah. They're literally old people. I mean, it's right there. Okay, you don't like them? No, I like them. Okay, they're the best. Dude, I went all around Scotland looking for this one liqueur that was butterscotch. It was like a whiskey butterscotch. The cure was so good. Oh. Dude, I went everywhere. I finally found a little bit and was supposed to like ship it back but I ended up drinking it all there. So... Wow. Wow. Whoops. You talk about, hey, you got a whole lot of control over here. So I bought, I'm listening to them talk and they're talking about what they think is a problem, whatever. And I'm eating these candies, right? And I'm kind of like to myself, I'm like, God, I wish it was there. And then I look at this candy and I'm looking at, I'm like, it's so funny to me how I look at this and I'm like, this is what we can consume. And you look at the ingredients and it's literally an invented, it's an invented, you know, innovative, you know, just ingredients they mix together to create this hyper-palatable thing that didn't ever exist. You look at the ingredients, half of them are ingredients to make it more palatable and they're not food ingredients. They're ingredients that are quote-unquote edible. Well, they're quote-unquote edible, meaning they've been tested that they don't make you die, but they do things like give it the right, silo tall gum and all these things. Whatever, right? Like yellow number seven. And, you know, they're done to make it look a particular way or to feel a particular way. They're not really foods, but they're, they don't kill you. So they add it to make it more palatable. And as I'm eating, I was like, so funny, you know, if you took someone from a thousand years ago, they'd be like, where did you find this tree? Where does this grow? This is incredible. It's like a treasure. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. But yeah, people get it so wrong. It's anyway, speaking of packaged foods, this is actually sad. Have you guys heard of the one chip challenge? Have you heard of this, this chip? Is it like a TikTok thing? No. Well, it is, but it's a company. Doug, look up one chip challenge. You can't eat just one chip. Is that the only thing? No. That's Lays. That was Lays. That was always Lays. I've heard of that before. No. You guys have seen this. I know what you have. It's a company that you'll buy a chip, but it's so spicy. Oh, I think I have seen this action. And I think they use like, what's a Carolina Grim Reaper? Yes. Those like crossbread, like crazy peppers that are just... Yes. Yes. I don't know if you found it, Doug. Make your eyes bleed? Maybe pull it up there. So apparently it's like so spicy that it's dangerous. Look at the title. You're a ghost reaper or whatever. Look at these articles. Team dies after taking part in the viral one? Yeah. You died? So... Whoa, all those are dies. It's the same one. Oh, it's the same one. I was like, Tim. So he ate the chip. So I've seen lots of videos, by the way, with this chip where people eat it. Yeah. And then the idea is you eat it and then you're not allowed to drink water or milk or anything. For I don't remember how much time to see if you can withstand it. And you watch the videos and they're funny, but also like you see like this is spicy, like people are like, oh, they're like throwing it out. I can't handle it. It's like so spicy it's dangerous, right? Apparently he ate the chip at school, made it through, came home, and then he went to play basketball, collapsed, and died. And the parent, now they're suing the company saying that they think the chip played a role in his death. Okay, so what... It might not be related. What is the behavioral psychology of that? Like why do things like this go viral and like why is this horrible chip? No one, it doesn't, it can't taste good. It's like... Just like your NASCAR analogy, right? No. They look at it as like a potential harm. Like it's... Dude. Yeah, well you're... Okay, that's different because it's not like you go run down and get in the NASCAR yourself and go like, I'm gonna try and race with these guys. These people are like, they see this, they go, I'm gonna do this. Yeah. So what makes... It's like what you can handle. It's like the TidePod. Like the Tide... It's the same as the TidePod thing. Like what made you go and go like... Well, the TidePod is a whole other level. No, that's like the same thing. No, with chip it's actually supposed to eat it. TidePod, you're not supposed to eat it. That's like who's tough enough to handle it. You are not supposed to eat a chip with engineered peppers that are so fucking hot it burns your mouth or get your heart rate. Well, let me ask you this. So that's not... It is like that. Imagine if the four of us were 24 years old and we all went to hang out together and I bust out four of these one chip. Dude, it's like... You can't tell me... Jackass is popular. You can't tell me, you guys wouldn't be like, all right, let's do this. No, fuck off. You wouldn't do it? No way. Katrina and I were just talking about this the other day about how she's like... I can see it in my son already. My son has this trait of me. If I don't want to do something, if I'm not into it, I'm not easily... So you'd be too scared, is what you're saying? And people would say that. You know what I say? I'll do something else that's more dangerous that I'm into. So this is specifically about a spiciness, but you'll do something else, dude. No, it's not that. It's just that I wouldn't be influenced by other people doing a challenge. If I want to do a challenge, because I want to do the challenge, there's no way that you would roll up with... So if you brought the chips, then we would do it. Well, I mean, you guys might be influenced that way. And I'm a pretty good closer, so I probably could get you guys to do that. So you never did nothing stupid. Bro, you're so funny how you take something and then you switch it and put words in my mouth. I didn't say I've never done anything stupid. I've done plenty of things stupid, but I've never been influenced. Listen, dude. Forget me influencing you. What I'm saying is you wouldn't be... This year where you're not into it, you're not into it. Yeah. This wouldn't be something that teenage you would be like, oh, this is going to be funny or whatever. I mean, I would watch it. I would. I mean, okay, in my school, it was a ghost pepper, right? Is the orange one? What's the orange one? So that was like the hottest thing around. And there was a thing where kids were like trying to, they were all batting each other and they were biting it. And like, I mean, I definitely didn't partake in it. I watched all the idiots, but I had no desire to do that. I was kind of like on the influence, the guy that we knew we could get to do stupid shit, to do the stupid shit. Yeah, basically. We already know that about you. That's been consistent with all the other stories. This guy took an airsoft gun, right? And we convinced him to basically like take his nut out and shoot himself point blank in the nut. Okay. Adam, your question was, yeah, who would do this way? Bro. That's crazy. Would you rather eat a chip or shoot yourself with a ball? Yeah, I know. You never gave me to do any of those things, dude. None of those. I know. So I guess maybe that's why I have such a hard time with it is because I can't make the connection for me. It's just, you know, it's like, you know what's going to happen? This is sad. Do you think you're going to sell more or less chips now that someone died? More. I know. More. I know. You sell a ton more. It's crazy. What's the spiciest, have you guys ever eaten something so spicy? I've had pepper. I've had some of those hot, not the ghost pepper, but I've had pepper. Have you ever feared like you eat something so spicy? Like am I going to, this is dangerous. No, I mean it's been so spicy where you get like the hiccups and you have like, and you're like, you're literally physically sweating like instantly. Yeah, I mean, it pulled me back. I didn't go that crazy with it. It's just enough to where like, I felt like it was hard for me to breathe. And so I was like, okay, I'm not doing that again. There's levels. I went to an Indian restaurant with my friend who's Indian. And he said, do you like spicy food? And like an idiot, I said, yes, if you like spicy food, but I didn't know that there's a different level of spicy. I grew up in San Jose. You know what I'm saying? Whatever. He goes in the back and I go with him because he knows the staff back. There's this little Indian restaurant, little hole in the wall. And he's speaking to them or whatever. And they're laughing at him and they're like, no, no, no, no. And he goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they got this big old thing. And then finally they said, okay, okay, okay. And we walk out and I'm like, what did you tell them? He says, I told them to make this the spiciest chicken. You know, I remember we ate spiciest dishes they've ever made. They said, no. He said, yes, I want it that way. And they said, okay. So I'm like, huh, what are we going to experience here? Okay. Listen, this is a true story. I took a bite and I swore to God five to 10 minutes later, I had to run out to my car. Thankfully, I had an inhaler out there. I had an asthma inhaler and I had to hit the inhaler and stay outside. And it took me like 30 minutes to settle down. Oh my God. He ate the whole freaking dish. I don't get it. I don't get it. So do you think this actually caused that as kid or that you're trying to make a connection and make money? I think they might be trying to make a connection because it happened later. Yeah, I was going to say like he went to school and he went home and then he played basketball. There's like some time. That's what the article said. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I don't. Yeah. Have you guys tried Andrew's spicy whatever the hell that is in the back there? Yeah, no, it's too spicy. I'm like, I'm all like quarter Mexican. You don't have that. I'm all like, I'm quarter as he feels it. Yeah. Smelling it would destroy me. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I love it. Anyway, it messes up my gut too much, which is why I don't do it. Although I like the taste. Speaking of gut, Adam, what happened with Darry? I want to hear about this. Oh, bro. Did he tell you what happened with Darry? No, he didn't tell me because we're kind of like because you guys are off the Darry. We've been quiet on because we haven't officially. Do you know when we drop that episode? Not going to drop for a while, so might as well talk about it. You're going to piss people off like crazy. Yeah. So much for the reveal. I mean, can't we drop it sooner or do we have to wait? Were we supposed to schedule to do it wait later? Yeah, we're scheduled to do it towards the end of November. Maybe I'll see if I can get it sooner for the audience so they can hear it. But anyways, you know, it came back that we hit intolerance to or intolerance to Darry. So I've now I'm on like two weeks of not having it. I feel like it's karma, by the way. And first of all, I think I shared earlier that I was really surprised on how many foods that I had that had Darry in it. I just, you know, you brought up one the other day that I remember telling her, she's like, what? What was the one? Certain salamis. Yeah, salamis. Some salamis. Yeah. She's like salami. And she's like, I saw said that and I checked and she goes, it was right. There was a salami and it had Darry. So there's a lot of little things that you just you wouldn't even think have Darry and especially if you go out and you eat at a restaurant and there's any sort of a difference. And so, I mean, I feel, I feel I'm so annoyed, right? That I have to be like Sal now at the restaurant because I've been making fun of him for so many years, right? He's still talking shit. I do. I'm still talking shit while I do it. I apologize. I'm so sorry that I have to be like this, but does this have Darry? You know so. Anyways, I've been good. It's been like two weeks or whatever. So we're out in Park City. Katrina and I and we were eating out like basically every meal and I ordered something that I think I just assumed it didn't have Darry and it did and right away I had like an issue and then like a total idiot. I was just like, well, you know, I broke the seal. So I may as well, whatever the next meal I allowed, you know, and it wasn't by the way, it wasn't like I didn't go have a brick of cheese or have a glass of milk or have ice cream. It was just like I what I did was I just ordered twice out and didn't and something you would normally order. That's right. Yeah. Calamari with some dipping sauce and then it was I wasn't like I was like going ham on Darry, but just that little bit because I had taken two weeks off and let my system probably completely clear out. Holy shit. It fucked me up for the next 48 hours. I was so miserable and I was so angry that that I was more angry that I stopped taking it before I was like that I was better when I was taking it, which helped me make that connection that I know this happens to people. Like I know that somebody goes, Oh, you know, I heard the wormheimer effect or what's that called? No. Herxheimer. No. That's a that's a die up. Okay. So this is interesting and I'd love to ask I wish I asked Dr. Cabral and maybe I'll email them or something to get the answer to this. That's common. You'll avoid a food that you have an intolerance to and then you'll reintroduce it at some point and it's maybe it's not long enough that you waited laying off long enough. Excuse me. And then you'll get a stronger reaction reaction. Yeah. This was that was okay. I could eat a fucking cart of ice cream and not got the reaction I got from a dipping sauce. Yeah. That's freaking that's what pissed me off so much. It's like I had never felt like that from and I've I've mentioned on the podcast in the past that oh, you know, I would if I would have ice cream and then also a way shake. It would my stool would be a little off and I would and I had made that connection. And when I think back now, I'm like boy, I was probably actually having a couple of times in the day besides that that I wasn't even paying attention to and here I am, you know, abstaining from it for two weeks. Nothing making sure everything is nothing has dairy in it. And then I have a dipping sauce with it. And I am just so here's my guess. And I don't know. I have to talk to Dr. Cabral. But when we talk about actual allergies, not intolerances, one of the strategies to and they're doing this a lot with children now, one of the strategies to reduce someone's risk of like anaphylactic shock is slow, repeated, small, very small exposures to the substance in question. And it over time, the immune reaction actually starts to dampen. So like with peanut allergies they have this new thing where it's a patch and you keep reapplying the patch and each time it adds a tiny, tiny, tiny bit more. And then the eventual treatment is, and this is my nephew, he has to eat a teaspoon of peanut butter every day in order to maintain this, you know, not getting this crazy. Because it could reverse. It could reverse. Oh well. So I wonder what the hell is going on with intolerances if avoiding the food initially causes this stronger reaction. And then it, because eventually what will happen with intolerances, that won't happen. Eventually what will happen is the antibodies that they identified will start to tamper down. You'll heal your gut, whatever the hell the problem is. Then typically what happens is you can reintroduce the food. This doesn't always happen but usually then the food doesn't bother you anymore. So I don't know what happens though with that in the middle. Well it would be interesting because I remember he was very specific to 21 days too. I heard him say 21 days ago and I was like, He has to start over, you know that right? Of course. Yeah, I know. Of course it counts over. Especially since I said eff it and I started to allow things in there. Damn it sucks. And literally this is what an asshole I am. I said eff it, I let that one and then another one and then I'm like I'm already tore up something like whatever of the next meal. It's like I just fucking ruined myself for like the last three days. I was like super annoyed by that. But at the same time for me it made me hyper aware like okay obviously I have some sort of a reaction to that or else I wouldn't have felt that. That exact thing happened to me. So dairy I still can't eat no matter what and sometimes you just can't right? But gluten that happened to me. I avoided gluten and then I would have just the smallest amount of a bread crumb or something on my food or whatever and I'd have this really terrible reaction but eventually like now I can eat gluten now and if I eat it too often then it'll start to bother me but if I have it a few times I don't have any issues. That's actually happened to me because I was trying to be good about the dairy stuff but then I had some sourdough and I'm like usually sourdough I'm like I can get away with this you know because it's one of those where because of the way it's prepared and fermented it's like a little bit easier. But I don't I think some there's degrees of the sourdough I think in some being processed and some not quite as processed so this was a very processed one and it just I had the same kind of bout where I was like oh no like it was immediate it was fierce it was like burn just all the way up to my throat like immediate response and I'm like ah I was trying to be good you know and just that one thing So here's something you guys can try again this is not approved by Dr. Cabral this is me with my own observation activated charcoal it binds to things that you consume and it makes them inert right charcoal is like a they'll give it to you if you have poison with it huh I'm wondering if yeah cause that'll it'll help me with certain foods well I would think it would help if I would just take a digestive enzyme with it too wouldn't it or no depends maybe maybe but I would go charcoal next time and see if it helps cause I think I've seen you don't you take the mass enzymes when you go to gluten a little bit dairy nothing can help me oh really like that huh dairy I don't no matter what you know what was bad about too was that what I'm real cause there's so many things that I used to like that have dairy and as like my snack like the magic spoon or things like that and I'm like fuck man candy I can go back to sugar like it took me so it took me so long to get rid of that addiction so I bought candy bro no you didn't I'm like this can't be this can't be better this can't be a better choice I'm not doing this so my stool's not bad but now I'm eating sugar again I'm like this is not I gotta figure something out this is when I feel like the podcast is really like our age is like showing through yeah yeah I think you're gonna say authentic no like what we're talking about like man I'm just imagining my 20 year old self listen to us right now I don't know okay you say that but it's gonna sneak up to him no it's common now so yes like my experience today bro yeah this is way way more common than younger people than it was I think you're right there's a whole hot girls and gut issues okay this is it what what are you googling what relax what are you googling everybody calm down it's not a website this is a hashtag and it's a thing on social media someone sent me that they're they're trying to say like well hot girls always have gut issues or we always have gut issues and it was like this trending hashtag that was going around and it was kids saying that somebody said to me that it's gotten worse or it's just now we know like I think both how social media has made gut health less taboo. Hot girls have stomach problems. And it says, from bloating to bowel movements, people are becoming more outspoken and unapologetic about their gut health and stomach issues online. It was like a trending thing. So answering your question, Justin, I think it's both. I think that there is more awareness around it and we're communicating. I also think that there was some of these things that in my 20s that I just wasn't paying attention to. You know, I think when you're 20 years old, you just think that you have an off stool and you think you just dismiss it. Where now I'm like, I'm so hyper aware. Anytime my stool is slightly off, I'm analyzing. Where I never did that in my 20s. Well, the culture back in the day is so funny because I was watching like old school like stand up comedy. And you know, there was always like jabs that people that were like, intolerant intolerant or like, and they're like, you don't have, you don't have celiac. You know, you just need to shut the fuck up. You know, whatever. Like if that was like the whole like thought process out there is like if you, it's not killing you. There are more gut issues today than ever. And it's a fact. If people don't believe it, it's not just awareness. Look at food allergies alone. That's an immune issue. Yeah, that's a great example of like, I mean, just exploding 15 years ago, no kid. It was allergic to peanuts. Now every school is peanut free because there's always a good percentage. Maybe Doug, look at a chart. See if you can find a chart. And these are kids that are going into like straight, like crazy shock, EpiPen shit. Like it's not like an allergy where, oh, he's a little rat. Did you know any kids with food allergies? No, I didn't know any of them. No, it's gotten worse. A hundred percent worse and we've been aware. So then I think one kid, which I think that's what's caused it to be so overwhelming is that the combination of it getting worse with more awareness around it just makes it seem like, oh my God, everybody has it now. We are exposed to way more chemicals that have effects on the body. Yeah. People are just less physically healthy anyway. We also are all exposed to glyphosate. By the way, you can now take a test. I think Dr. Cabral has this. You could take a test to, it's a urine test and they will let you know how much glyphosate residue you have in your urine. Okay, they find this in pregnant women's breast milk. Glyphosates have deleterious effects on the gut wall and your microbiome and it's fucking everywhere. And here's what's sad. You could eat all organic and oftentimes you'll still have glyphosate residue because that shit is everywhere. What does that say now? What does that say there, Doug? So one in 10 adults, one in 13 children have food allergies, but here is the interesting thing. 377% claim, anaphylaptic food reactions increased 377%. Between 2007 and 2016. No, no, no, hold on. Everybody calm down. Listen, from 2007 to 2016, that is not that long. That's nine years, 377% increase. One out of 13 children. Yeah, but then that's what people like out of. Yeah, but that's what people think. Out of a thousand percent? Like, yeah. No, it's just, I was just like, I think it'd be more than 100% people think that. No, no, what are you talking about? The whole, it'd be a hundred percent. It's a hundred percent. Oh my God, you guys, you guys are so. Anaphylactic food reactions. No, I know what it'd be. I know that's weird. The number was five and now the number is increased by 377%. You'd multiply it. It just irritates me how they do it. It's a funny way to present it. But that's crazy. It's for dramatic purposes. In that short period of time, and that short, by the way, anaphylactic shock is not like, I think I have, like this is something doctors. Oh yeah, no, you have to have a pin around. Bro, that is a massively crazy thing. Yeah, this is also the wrong one. You're gonna have food allergies. I wanna, like, because you can be intolerant to something and not have an allergy. No, no, no, you're right. But I'm saying food allergies because there's a correlation, there's a connection there. It's, they're immune reactions, right? That's why when they test, your food sensitivities, they tested antibody. I know, but that's, I mean, that's a crazier. That's scary. I mean, that's a crazier situation. Like, if you just have an intolerance, that's more likely and a lesser issue. Dude. So I would think there's a much higher increase on intolerances than there would be in food allergies. I agree. Go to restaurants now. How many restaurants now have gluten-free options? Yeah. This kind of option or whatever, it's crazy. Well, I mean, yeah, but then that can go back to your free market argument of just market demand because everybody thinks that they have an issue which goes back to Justin's comedian point of, like, now everybody thinks they have an intolerance to it. No, no, there's other data you could find. It's definitely going up. There's something going on. I mean, I, what I can do is share my experience. That's for damn sure. I know, I know for sure what I didn't think. No, it's a real thing. When you actually like take the time out to kind of parse out which foods are making you act a certain way. It's like, it's pretty damn obvious. Well, you know, it was very alarming for me through this, what just happened to me is like, you know, there's a part of me that wants to be ignorant to it. Yeah. There's a lot of people like that. And that's admitting to it, right? Like it's like, man, that was a way worse situation than all the dairy I was eating just six months ago. I'd rather go back to that guy who was, you know, blissfully ignorant to it and just blame it on something else or I don't have an, like, ignore it. It's like that scene from The Matrix when the dude makes a deal with the machines, remember? Yeah. It's like, I know the steak isn't real. It isn't real, but oh, it's exactly. Yeah, no, totally like that. There's a part of that. You know what you went through? You went through the whole client journey. Did you know that? You did. You were told don't eat this, so you didn't. Then you finally introduced it, then you broke the seal and went way over what you normally would do. You did the on the wagon, off the wagon, and then you replaced it with candy or you're talking about candy. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, that's why I wanted to share it because I'm obviously hyper aware. You know what I'm saying? Like, this is what I do for a living. So, and how challenging both mentally for me, the physical discipline side of it, like, yeah, I know I could totally see where a client is going to deny it and then even when they accept it, then they're going to go through an alternative. The alternative isn't a better, that much it's like just a lesser evil. It's like, I mean. Speaking of crazy like stuff that in today's world, like you would see a news title, I don't think I've ever seen this news title back in the day. There was a shooting in White Sox Stadium and this all happened because a lady had hidden, smuggled a gun inside, but you know how she smuggled it in? Her fanny pack. Don't tell me. Underneath her gut. Oh. Her foot bones close. Underneath her gut, it fired off accidentally. It shot her? Shot her, grazed her leg and then hit her friend right next to her. What? Oh, wow. Like, what? Did they, okay. So you lift your belly, tuck it in, drop it. Tuck it in. Gun sticks. Gun stuck. Wow. Undetected. Wow. Yeah. You know what set it off was the Cheeto. There was a Cheeto. That was the cheeto. That is weird. Isn't that weird? Did they find out why she was smuggling a gun in her under? No, I, yeah, no, I don't know. I mean, it's, again, like Chicago has been kind of like. I just went and insulted myself. Dude, I'm sorry. I lived there. Dude, it's gotten, it's gotten bad. Well, it's Chicago, you know. Yeah. Yeah, you imagine she meets some guy at the game. They go back to his place, takes off for zero. Oh, shit. Yeah, I don't know what her plans were, but it's like a, isn't that a naked gun episode where he's like, he pulls, he's, he pulls, ends up pulling like like 40 guns out of nowhere. I'm saying that. I feel like that's what that's from. She's the weirdest tie. I was like, what? Like, I didn't know how to wrap my brain around it. You just reminded me of a terrible story. I had, I used to work with a woman who used to work with this severely, severely obese, like the kind of people who are bedridden and they have to go to their house to help them and that kind of stuff. Like on my 600 pound life. Yeah. She said that one, this one man had this, they were just like festering skin issue. They couldn't figure out what it was. There was, there was food like stuck in one of his. Yeah. And they never found it. And they had to like. Oh, come on. Change the subject. Change the subject dogs. We're supposed to speak up. Not as bad as the subject. That's even worse. That is worse, bro. A gun is like, you intentionally place that there like a piece of pepperoni pizza. Yeah. And you're like, I know there was 12 slices in here. Yeah. Where did that 12 slice go? I don't know where it went. Oh, I have to forget about it. That's disgusting. Hey, okay. So you were, you were over in. Palm Springs. Palm Springs. Just your, just your, the boys and. Courtney and then her brother's family. They, the first time they were there with us. Oh, did they rent another place there? Yeah. So they're, yeah. So it was cool cause it's kind of a little community. We knew one of the owners that wasn't there and they allowed us for them to stay at their place. And so, yeah. So we just, we hung out and did a lot of pool time and it was really hot. We actually went to this air museum, which was cool in Palm Springs. I saw that. Which we, I don't know. There's something about that like old military World War II stuff. Like my kids are really into it and it's fun. But yeah, we just, I mean, we didn't do anything crazy. It was pretty fun. It was a good time. I was up at the truckie. Who all went with you? So it was my, I took three of my kids and of course the wife and then my cousin, his wife and their two girls, which I love them. They're my favorite people. We had a great time. We had a great time with the kids. We all got to connect. My cousin and his wife got to work out in our PRX gym in the garage. They were commenting on how great the gym was. Oh, this is really cool. And it folds out. And so they were talking about maybe getting, you know, getting set up in their garage. Cause my cousin's like, I don't like to put anything in the garage. I want to park everything in the garage. That's how I am. Yeah. That's what I love about it. And so once he saw and felt how sturdy it was, he's like, this is great. I'm like, bro, put this, this is like the best home gym equipment. Anyway, we had a great time. We had a totally great time up there. But here's what's funny. Did I ever tell you guys a story about how I got chased by a bear when I was a kid with my cousin? I told you guys that, right? Okay. Old story, I must have told them in the past episode. Anyway, long story short, we were kids camping. My cousin and I were probably 12, playing in the woods. We saw a bear, we ran. Bears chased whatever runs. Chased us for a second. Traumatized both of us. So till this day. You see a bear, you freak out. Well, you guys know how I am about it. I'll talk about bear. It's bear season up there right now. I know. So him and I are both like, we know this and we laugh about it. Like bears are a thing for us, right? Anyway, he shows up and he's unpacking or whatever. And he brought a gun. He brought a gun? Yeah, I'm like, why'd you bring your, why'd you bring your, your Beretta? Well, he goes bears up here. I'm like, bro, what? You got your gun because it's bears up here. So we went out to the, We're not greasely. Hey, we went out to the jacuzzi, you know? At night, out the jacuzzi, brings his gun, puts it on the side. No, he did. Yeah, he did. It's what he got. Like, what'd he do, bro? He definitely traumatized us. I know. I was like wishing a bear would come because that'd be awesome. Pulls it out. Bing, bing, bing. Wow. But anyway, we had a great time. Did you guys just hang around the house or did you guys go anywhere? Mostly around the house. We went out to dinner once over at, what's that place called, Bar of America? Oh, yes, we had a good time over there. But it was fun, man. It was, it was good weather, not really. I mean, it's kind of cloudy, but it was, it was good for the family. Oh, do you guys get rain? We got like dumped on. We got some. You know, the whole. You had weird weather. Super hot, super hot. Super like, and the, the rain was warm too. So it was like, I enjoyed it because it was like a nice break. Did you hear, did you see what happened up in Burning Man? Yes. So that's, I mean, Indio Valley is like way further. Yeah. That direction. So, so, so my, my kid was talking about how friends of his were going to go to Burning Man. And he's like, but I don't think I'm going to go. Thank God. It rained so much over there. People got trapped. So they wouldn't let anybody live out. You couldn't leave. You couldn't leave. I read a Matt Vincent's post and I was like, oh, wow. It didn't sound very user. Yeah. He was talking about what I'd like to chat. Like, of course, he was talking with the positive things. Like it was, you know, and he was, I was like, reading it. I'm like, this is not sound like you're happy no matter what. Yeah. I'm like, hey, I'm reading it. I'm like, this is not sound like something I want to do it. Oh, right now. No, they're trapped. Uh, the porta potties couldn't get changed. Then there was hours to get in and out. I heard then there was a rumor that Ebola was, did you hear about this Google Burning Man Ebola? There was like rumors that like people are coughing up coagulated blood, stay inside your tents, whatever. I didn't see it turned out to be turned out to be false. I think it's like that Ebola was spreading. Oh, my God. Of course, of course, all the conspiracy theories. Oh, yeah, it's happening. It's a massive, oh, my God. Yeah, can you imagine? People are starting to spit in water in their mouth and you think it's something else. Burning Man putting triggers, false claims of Ebola. Look at that. No, it's not. Wow. That's actually early three hours ago. That's funny. What a, what a terrible trip. Yeah, right. Tripping out. Hey, man, there's Ebola here. Oh, every time I hear someone say like positive about it, then I hear stories like this. I'm like, I just I don't want to go now. I'd like to go back and forth. I want to go. Then I don't want to go. I'm like, this makes me again, not want to go. I'm sure it's a spectacle. I know I heard Doug kind of describe it because you went like twice, right? I did. He went before it was this crazy though, right? Is it way crazier now? Yeah, I think it's crazier now. When I went there's maybe around 30,000 people there. I think it's up to over 50,000. Now, did you, did you wear anything crazy? I didn't dress up in a metal costume. So the first time I went, I was just there as a pure observer. And then I got sick. And so I basically laid around for most of the time. It was kind of a real waste. The second time I went, I did bring some stuff, but nothing crazy. And I enjoyed it. Like what do you mean? What do you wear? Just like a costume. You know, I remember what I didn't have any like, you know, leather. I want to know what you wore, dude. No, I wasn't anything crazy like that. Bring the pictures out, bro. Get the editing team the pictures. I want to have you chain mail and ask these chefs. No, no, what did you wear? What kind of, what do you mean by costume? What did you wear? I'm trying to remember. Like, yeah, like Indiana Jones costume or something like that. Nothing like that. I was not into the leather, even though there were some people there. And then there's, of course, people there that are into the costume where you don't wear anything. But it is, as I was describing it, I this is my description of Burning Man. It's Mad Max meets Cirque du Soleil meets Dr. Seuss. That's a good analogy. Yeah. I mean, you see people on stilts. You see people doing acrobatics, you know, spinning fire. There's a thunderdome there. There used to be anyway. Wow. Yeah. I mean, it's pretty crazy. And the art installations are absolutely amazing. Yeah. The art is what makes me want to go. Speaking of that, OK, I went to, I was in Park City, right? Or the Utah place and spent every day pretty much down on the strip at Park City, which absolutely love that place and have continued to fall in love with it more, the more I get like familiarized with everything. And I would say that that is probably got some of the most art galleries I've ever seen in my life anywhere. And there's places like Carmel that have some places Santa Barbara's. And there's more like high end art there than I've I've ever seen anywhere else. And in fact, I got to talk to some of the brokers over there and meet them. They're like, yeah, this is like one of the like mechas for like good art. And we are Katrina and I were walking down there one of the nights when like most of the shops were getting closed. And so it was cool. We got to hang. I met this guy and like that was running the show and and or the store and been doing it for like over a decade and got like this like personal tour of the back of the other stores and like the storyline behind all these different artists. And it was like a real real cool experience for her and I. And he took us to this one of their other buildings that was like closed up for the night and like back and show this art. There's this guy I'll show you. I'll share with the YouTube team because I took pictures of some of this art. But like all the artwork is like an x-ray. It's just x-ray photos. And I'll show you guys. So and of course, it'll pop up on here for the YouTubers. Like, you know, it was it's just like but what it is required to take an x-ray. The toy cars in places. Well, you know, like full size vehicles and people, right? So they're so it's huge. And it takes like 10 hours of stillness to shoot like for an x-ray. I guess to go all the way through an engine of a car and show the other side. It has to be has to be running for like 10 hours. Well, so the artist has I don't know how expensive an x-ray machine that is bigger, big enough to shoot a full size car. We're going on an airplane. I think he had an expensive. Yeah, it's insanely expensive. And then what I did, like he's telling us all about, like, damn, that's crazy. I'm like, it's crazy that nobody's I've never seen anyone try and copy his art. He's like, well, first of all, you'd have to have the money to afford an x-ray there. And then also he goes to see all the the all the skeletons. And he goes, that's you. You'd have to get a human to sit there for 10 of those. None of those are all cadavers, of course. So otherwise you get too much radiation. So yeah, so he sets up these cadavers is and they're it's like it's actually really cool art. It looks really, really cool. And then you get to hear the backstory on it and realize how it's made. And you're like, oh, shit, that's wild. You guys know you guys want to know the first commercial uses of x-rays? You guys know? Oh, commercial use. What do you mean by that? I heard this. I don't remember. Like retail uses. This is true. You would go to buy shoes and in order to see if the shoe fit you well, you put your foot in the shoe and they would do an x-ray and they would do this on kids, they would do this on adults, they would do this on everybody. They realized how bad your foot is. It's fun. Do it multiple times. They would x-ray your foot to see if the shoe fit well. Oh, that's interesting. Didn't they also use them in diamond mines? Oh, yeah, dude, did you know that? The De Beers. I didn't know that. The De Beers diamond mines. When workers would finish working, they would x-ray them to see if they were smuggling in diamonds. Oh my God, like they need any other horrible diamond. They like breathe in dust and like all day long. Yeah, here we go, let's just hammer that here. Horrible conditions. Terrible. I just text Doug because I don't know if Doug can pull it up or not, but I just sent you over, but I thought it was really cool. There was a lot of other pieces that I thought were really fascinating. So I was telling him the story too. I said, yeah, my partners and I, I said we were looking for art to put on all the walls. And so we came down here and we shopped all day and bought nothing because everything is like over the top expensive. And we're like, this is a short-term rental. I don't know if I want to put a $100,000 piece of art on the walls all over the place. The art would be worth more than a goddamn house would after we fill all the walls. Is that it right there, Doug? Scroll it up. Oh yeah, that's it. Scroll up. Yeah, let's see. No, TV on the bottom. Oh yeah, sorry, I switched the wrong TV here. Can you see it? No, I don't. You can see part of it. Oh, I can see it. Finally, I'm winning. There you go. Oh, cool. Personals. So you put a cadaver on a motorcycle? All kinds, bro. Cars, planes, like in position and all the different. How do you get a dead body to do? Like, how do you go? That's, I thought that was the stuff. And then also, you think it's x-rayed. You can't, like, put things to hold it or in place. So I don't know how the hell he did all this, but super famous artist. I don't know if you could probably find out who the name is so I can shout out the actual artist. Interesting. All right, I got a shout out. I don't know if I shouted this person out yet, but they're on Twitter. And they've got a really good page. They post about studies and strength training. Maybe I did shout it out. Let me know if I did. It's Twitter and it's at, M-A-N-G-A-N-1-50. So at, M-A-N-G-A-N-1-50. Just great, great posts. Great stuff on studies, on health and strength training. He's a microbiologist and also a fitness person. It's Twitter on x, where you follow? On x, yeah. And it's just, it's one of the best accounts I've found. If you like studies, you like breakdowns of studies and you like somebody to kind of cut through all the crap, check it out. Oh, yo. Do you want to maximize your sleep? Literally, make it even more recuperative. Build more muscle, burn more body fat, reduce cravings. Well, there's a product called Sleep Breakthrough. Now, this is not a pharmaceutical. It doesn't make you all drowsy and groggy when you wake up. It actually just improves the quality of your sleep and it's backed by scientific studies. Go check them out. Go to sleepbreakthrough.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code mindpump10 and get yourself a discount. All right, back to the show. Our first caller is Mark from the UK. Mark, what's happening? How can we help you? How you doing? Yeah, great. Thanks for inviting me on, guys. You got it. All right. Yeah. So yeah, so let's go into the question and a little bit of background. How do you want to start it? Yeah, go for it. Ask your question. Well, we could actually see your question, too. So, you know. OK, yeah. So basically, I'm about 49 years old. I started back up weight training consistently about 18 months ago with the MAPS anabolic. Prior to that, I was pretty active until my mid-30s when I got my back injury and stopped. And also got married and had kids as well. So that sort of stops you from doing quite a bit. So prior to that, I never really dead lifted until I started on MAPS anabolic. And I learned from you guys the importance of that exercise. And I was always worried about basically hurting my back again. Or while I was weight training before, just in the old days, it's like something you sort of sometimes avoided because you're worried about hurting yourself. But ironically, since I've been deadlifting, my back's been pretty flawless. And I'm not doing the issues at all for the last year or so. But yeah, my query is basically I've been just using a hex bar to do the actual exercise with. And I basically chose that because I thought it was the safest option to do. But it's one to know if I was missing out on anything. I got it on a barbell. OK, so let's talk about injury first. Injuries during exercise or movement happen because of weakness. Now, weakness in the context of your overall body strength and in the context of the movement you were attempting or trying to do. So it doesn't necessarily mean someone's weak. For example, let's say you have a very strong bodybuilder who could deadlift a lot of weight. But let's say their QL muscles is one of the lateral, let's say, stabilizers of the low back doesn't match the strength that the other prime movers can move. So now you have an imbalance. So it's caused by weakness, but it's in the context of your overall body. So that's how injuries happen. A deadlift will hurt you if you are not strong enough to perform the deadlift with the right stability and technique and all that stuff. OK, so that's number one. A hex bar is a lower risk version of a deadlift because it's less technical. So the more technical an exercise is, the higher the risk is because it's harder to maintain perfect form or better form with a more technical exercise. And a hex bar just places the weight more at your sides. It involves a little bit more quadricep. There's less posterior chain activation. So for people who, let's say, are learning the deadlift or are not comfortable with their technique or form or stability, a hex bar is a fine substitute. Are you missing out on anything? I mean, not really. The only thing I would say you're missing out on is the fact that you're not working on something that you may still have, let's say, a small imbalance with. So if you were my client, Mark, what I would do is I would slowly move you to a straight bar with careful technique form. Make sure we stabilize your core, work on core stability, do rotational exercises, lateral stability, that kind of stuff. Because I want you to be able to deadlift. That doesn't mean we always have to deadlift. But I want you to be able to do that because, let's face it, in the real world, when you lift something off the ground, it's almost never in a hex bar position. It's almost always in front of you, which is more like a deadlift. It's a very classic kind of hip hinge movement that we don't necessarily want to lose the ability to do. So I would say that's the only thing you're missing out on. But if you never straight bar deadlifted, only hex bar deadlifted, did other exercises, you'd probably be okay. So I'd really leave it up to you. But again, if you were my client, I wouldn't keep you there. I would say, okay, why can't we do this exercise? Why are we afraid of it? Let's address this and let's slowly progress you. Yeah, there's not a lot of pure post-tier chain type exercises that compare to deadlift like that. So I would say, to Sal's point, the hex bar does help in terms of lowering the risk a bit with that and it does activate post-tier chain, but it also helps to kind of balance it out, just like a squat more so and a little bit less on the hip hinge. So to just kind of refine that hip hinge and get your hamstrings a little bit more involved, your glutes up your back and just really focus exclusively on that because we're so anterior driven already, like everything you're doing on a daily basis is out in front of you. And so to be able to kind of counter that a bit more and focus on the strength of that has a lot of value, but doesn't necessarily mean you have to go crazy with the load, just to be able to, you know, practice that form and that technique. We're obviously all gonna say the same thing that we'd wanna move you towards the deadlift, but I do wanna point out that it's a bit of splitting hairs to put too much stress on it also. Like the fact that you are hex bar deadlifting, if you have, I don't know how long it's been, if it's been a year or two years since you've been doing that and you've progressed, have you progressed the weight in that time too? Are you like continuing? Oh, yes, significantly. I'm up, I mean, about 120 kilos is what I can do on the strength phase. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. So I mean, I think you're doing great, right? So if you were a client of mine, we were really scared or nervous about our previous back injury that we had and we wanted to do hex bar before we even moved to like a traditional deadlift. It really would be, and this is the one area that's challenging for us on a podcast like this is, based off of what each of us would be seeing you, like if you were a client coming in, it would be how fast I would progress you to that deadlift. Like if I looked at you and you're doing that hex bar and you're strong and you look good, I'm like, oh, we could easily go to the deadlift and just lighten the load and just really slowly work on technique. You've now built a solid foundation in the hip hinge that I think that we can progress it. It's just a more technical lift and there's, which of course means more risk, but if we cut the load in half, work on technique, you'll soon get to a place where you'll be able to deadlift as much as you can do with the hex bar, if not more. So Mark, also if you do try to go with the straight bar, consider that the average person with good technique in form, okay, so no fear, no injury, no instability issues, will lift between 25 to maybe 30, 35 kilos less on a straight bar anyway, okay? Yeah, so if I could hex bar deadlift 600 pounds, then my max on the deadlift would be closer to maybe 535, 50 in terms of pounds. So when you do try the straight bar, you're gonna have to lighten it a lot, not just what I said, but much more, right? So what did you say your strength, you're in a strength phase, 140 kilos, did you say? 120 kilos. Yeah, so I would go, I'll go less than half. 135, put 40, put 45s on each side. No, no, no, I would go, yeah, I would go less than half the weight because he's also working on some, I would make it very light, I would not try to make it a workout and I would just really perfect the form if that's the direction you wanna go. So when I do the hex bar, I get like, I was getting like, when I went heavy, I got like a quivering vibration in my right. So I left out and went down the bottom. Okay. Which I can use. Yeah, so that could be a core stability issue. So I would really work on bracing the core. I would do rotational exercises. Well, yeah, that opens up another discussion now. Maybe, I mean, if you've been running mostly anabolic, have you ran performance yet? Or symmetry? No, I've had, I've had Prime Pro and I mean, I've actually, yeah, one question I was gonna ask was based on my right side, I always seem to get issues. So I've got like, at the moment, I find it hard to sort of move my elbow up. Sorry, yeah. And then I've got tight hamstrings that, you know, when I walk, I get a, you know, sore knee and then when I get out of bed in the morning, my foot on that side is always bit funny in the morning. Yeah, you need to go to map symmetry. Yeah, yeah. That's the move. So before we even worry about the, you know, straight bar deadlift. Yeah, straight bar deadlift. Let's move into symmetry and do that. And then when you come back to say, let's say anabolic, then we could, we could move to like the barbell deadlift and see what happens there. But I think you're gonna benefit from unilateral work, some rotational work, some isometric work. You're gonna get all that in symmetry. So that, those issues on that side, you reckon I just tell it in balance issue. Correct. Yep. That's definitely what that says. Yeah, Doug's gonna send that over to you. So that's the direction you should go. Oh, brilliant. That's really pretty sure. And this is, I mean, here's a perfect example of, you know, as you've given us more information, we would see that if you were a client and you're moving in front of us. And so that is what would dictate what's going like, hey, let's get right to the barbell deadlift. If we saw that you're having this movement issue and you're right, you're giving, if you were to give that feedback first, all of us would have jumped and said, oh, well, let's not worry about the barbell deadlift yet. Let's go to symmetry. Let's fix the imbalances and then we'll move into something like that. Okay, cool. All right. So Doug's gonna send that over to you, Mark. Oh, thank you. I just wanna say you guys, I really appreciate all the content. Yeah, I found you guys probably, well, quite a few years ago, you were on a Dr. Richo podcast. Yeah. He's like a functional person guy. Yep, yep. And then that listened to you really got me back into, I mean, there's a lot of people online who, you know, talk about fitness, but having the three of you together and a real balance for you of all three is brilliant. And it really stimulated me in educating me about getting back into fitness and, you know, it's been really good for me, basically. I appreciate it. I really appreciate it. That's awesome, Mark. Thank you, Mark. Appreciate it. Cool, all right. All right, take care, guys. Thank you. Yeah, I think it's important to communicate how injuries happen because there's a lot of, I guess, misunderstandings around it. And it's always weakness, but it's in the context of the person's body and their ability. So you can be very strong, injure yourself with something that seems benign, and then you're left questioning what the hell happened. How did I hurt myself? I'm so strong in the gym. It's because there is a muscle or a movement that is weak in the context of everything else that you could do. It's an imbalance, and that's where it comes from. This is how strong people hurt themselves. It's also how weak people hurt themselves. It's all the same. Well, to that point, the reason why right away everyone jumped to symmetry and or talking about rotational stuff is he's talked about having a strain in his abdominal from when doing that, which means he probably had a little bit of shift when he did. And then, and that little bit of shift when he was lifting heavy, Hex bar deadlift is because he's got very little strength in the rotational or the stability component of his abdominals. And so training that is a bulletproofing that before we progress him into a barbell deadlift, which again, this is the nuances of training and teaching people how to lift properly. And it's not as simple as this exercise is better than that exercise. It's like, well, it matters. Right, right. And just to add to this, it's like if you have a regular car and you throw a thousand horsepower in there and you don't reinforce and strengthen the frame, you'll twist it. And it's not because the car was weak before. It was weak for the new strength that it has. So again, I want to make that point to everybody listening that injuries happen because of imbalances because of weakness, not because you're weak. Our next color is Adrian from Massachusetts. Adrian, what's happening, man? How can we help you? Hey guys, what's up? I'm, how are you? Good, good, good, man. Doing so good, so good. So awesome to see you, to talk to you. Really happy I got to have this opportunity. I'll tell us, man. Just want to, yeah, just first to say, like obviously, you know, like everybody else, I really appreciate all the quality information that you guys bring to the fitness space and not just about the physical components, right? But how important mental and behavioral aspects are as well. And personally, how much you guys share about fatherhood experiences, business, personal lives, everything, all that kind of really resonates with me. And, you know, so your vulnerability has really kind of allowed me to jump in and really buy into everything. You know, I've been working out for almost 15 years and I never bought a single program until I listened to you guys for just a couple of months and I bought the RBG bundle just because, you know, your passion and your knowledge and everything does really, you know, sold me. And it's an amazing investment, you know, that I highly recommend for anybody and don't regret it. So thank you. Oh, you got it, man, thank you. Yeah, so that kind of leads into my question. So I'm also a dad. I have three girls and I'm actually a full-time lawyer. I'm in my office right now, but I'm also, within the past few years I became a group boxing fitness instructor and I teach like eight to 10, sometimes more if I'm subbing classes a week. And, you know, really love fitness as well. I'm trying to kind of expand that side of my career, but as you can imagine, I don't really have much time for my own workouts. And after I bought the bundle, I started with Anabolic and, you know, I ended up getting through it, but I think when I initially put the question out there, I was kind of getting into phase three. And, you know, there were only certain days that I could kind of fit in a full foundational day. And so let's say if I had those days set on one day and Wednesday, if something happened, you know, like up late with the kids working on a case or whatever, and let's say, you know, one day, which was scheduled to be the day when I would do that, you know, tougher, longer workout didn't necessarily kind of match up in terms of where I was either physically or being tired or just maybe sometimes not having the time, it'd be hard to find the time again until maybe another to the following week, right? And it'd be, you know, four or five, maybe six days before I got to it again. So just wondering about how I kind of managed the time around that in terms of what I ended up doing was really just, you know, if I didn't get to day two in a certain week, and then it wasn't until the following week when I was normally gonna be doing the day one foundational day, I would just go with day two and kind of go from there. And it kind of ended up that I ended up extending the program I think a couple of weeks, but still, you know, finished it. And it really became more of a struggle, I think in phase three where there was, you know, when it was three foundational days, it was harder to kind of find the three days to be able to do that. But yeah, that was my question in terms of programming-wise, you know, if that makes sense what I did or if there was another way to handle it or whatnot or maybe it was just too much in terms of everything else that I was also doing, you know, with classes and also I would do at least one or two boxing workouts today as well. I'm here a week. Yeah, so you're not gonna like my answer because I can tell you that I achieved her. Okay, so you're a lawyer, you got three kids and you wanna teach boxing group class, which means you're also doing the class, right? As an instructor, I mean, you're not maybe doing the full class, but you're doing a lot of the class. So you're working out, you're doing a lot. I mean, there's a lot there. And I think the way you handled it was right, but I would bet that you're probably still overdoing it. I think you probably have that tendency. It's probably served you well. Obviously, you're probably pretty successful. My question is why do another 10 hours a week of group classes on top of being a lawyer and a dad, that's so much to handle and manage, why do the extra? Yeah, I can't imagine the $40 an hour is making another difference for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's definitely not about the money. I think, like I said, I got into fitness boxing. It's kind of the thing that got me into it the most and I kind of found a passion for there. And then it was kind of just like my own outlet, but I always, I really love working with people and helping people in different aspects. And I always thought about doing that. And then over the pandemic, the lawyer stuff wasn't happening as much. And so once Jim started opening back up, I kind of thought, well, let me see, I can do this a little bit on the side. And then I just really, really fell in love with it and then passionate about it. And those are like the best parts of my day is working with clients and teaching classes and doing those things. And so I've been just looking for more opportunities and trying to think on how I can create a business out of it. But obviously, like you said, it's a challenge. And I'm sure you guys talk all the time about, it's not necessarily the most lucrative thing to do, becoming a personal trainer, getting into the business. But I know that it's kind of where I find the most fulfillment at least right now. So it's mainly that. Yeah, love your answer. I love this question because there's like multiple directions that we can go here, right? And it really depends on like your feedback with me. Like if you were a client and you're asking me this question and you're frustrated with maybe like your progress, I might say them. But if you looked at me and you're like, Adam, I really, I love what I'm doing. I love the classes. I do like getting in there, am I just fucking up the program by doing what I'm doing? I'd say, well, yeah, you're probably overdoing it. Like Sal said, I'd say, you know, maybe just one foundational day a week and just stick to that. And then the days when you have extra time, you probably need the rest and recovery. You got three kids, you've got, you're a lawyer, you're doing a bunch of shit. But if you were complaining to me like, man, my body just is not progressing. And I'm not seeing the results for all the work I'm putting in. Well, yeah, you're putting in way too much work if we're trying to progress to build your body, to change your composition. Like we're not going about right. But if you told me like, I love what I do and I enjoy every aspect of this. I enjoy the classes. I love the energy from it. I like getting in there and lifting a little bit myself. What's that balance look like? I'd say that's what it kind of looks like. But I know the direction that Sal went right away is like, okay, this isn't the best way to skin this cat. There's a better way to do this if you wanted to see more progress, more results. So this is where this gets like nuanced of it really depends on what you want from this. Like what are you trying to achieve by doing all these things? Is it, are you trying to change a physique or are you kind of happy with it? Cause I just saw your Instagram, your great shape. So you don't need. If you're kind of happy with that and you're just really strength trained to supplement and support, you know, your venture in with your classes and to keep that going. And that's something you want to keep going cause you enjoy it. I mean, that's, then that's your goal. So it's pretty much like how you have it laid out. If you did want to spend more time and focus on the actual strength and move the needle in that direction, we'd have to like adjust things a bit. Yeah, the classes, we have to reduce the classes. If you really, if you're like, man, my deadlift isn't getting stronger. My body composition, well, okay. Yeah, that's because your body is taxed, dude. And you're running the red line a lot and you're not allowing it to recover and build strength. But if you said, I mean, I love it and I'm enjoying it and I'm happy with the way I look and feel like, I mean, the only thing, and your intuition was actually right. The way you handled it, it was, I would probably told you, I would have pushed you more like just one day a week. I would have said, hey, bro, even though you could do two this week, you don't need to. You're already kickboxing 10 hours out of the week plus your one day of foundational training. That's punny. You're going to get stronger, you're going to build muscle, you're going to stay fit. That's more than enough with that. I would just tell you to follow the program. So you kind of were already going that way. Your intuition, I think was right. I would probably push you in that direction a little more. But again, a lot of this has to do with the feedback I'm getting from you and what you're telling me you want to get out of this. Yeah, look, it's like this, okay? What's more valuable to you? And I'm going to ask this to generally, anybody listening right now, is an extra, let's say four pounds of muscle and a 2% loss of body fat, is that more important than life quality? And the answer should be no. For everybody, quality of life is more important. So if you're doing this for quality of life, enjoying your family and your business and you like teaching classes, you're on the right path. Once a week is probably gonna be ideal most of the time. And then one thing I'll add, and I don't know if you already do this, I would imagine you do, because you seem like you're pretty dialed in, is you're gonna have to be really structured about your sleep, because that would really mess you up with everything else. Go to bed at the same time, wake up at the same time and really take that seriously. And that'll afford you the ability to be able to do all the things that you do because otherwise it'll get really difficult. But I think you're on the right path, dude. I don't think, I think you made the right decision. I would go once a week, foundational workout, and you can pick a foundational workout for MAPS anabolic, MAPS performance, or some of our other programs, MAPS symmetry would probably be good also, just to kind of balance things out, keep the muscle, the strength, the mobility and the stability so you can keep being a badass. Thanks, yeah. I think it's definitely kind of more along the lines of, I enjoy what I'm doing and certainly there are times where I love to build more muscle or drop a couple of percentage off the body fat. And I think sometimes it goes along with like short-term girl goals. Like if I have a trip coming up, then I'll really focus in and I'll dial in and then I'm definitely looking at the sleep and different things like that. There was a time where I kind of used, I think one of your episodes talked about, like kind of getting your dead lift up in a short period of time and I kind of followed all of those things and kind of went with that for like 30 days and I put about 25 pounds on the bar. So for sure, I know that, obviously all the things I'm doing, it doesn't necessarily lend itself to like kind of going in the great physique direction. But yeah, I think overall, I know that I'm sacrificing some in that aspect, but like you said, quality of life, I think balances out. That's what matters the most, bro. If you feel good and everything's moving well, who cares? I think what you're doing is totally fine and it all depended on if you were to tell me something about your strength or the way you looked and you want to change body composition, then I'd say, yeah, we're not, it's so interesting how we, and I think it's because, I mean, if you applied like being a lawyer, the harder you study, the more you put into it, the better you are at, right? I mean, that's just, that's how it is in almost every aspect. Training is not that way. Training to get stronger or training to change your body composition is not the more I do, the more effort I put into it, the more I'm going to return, it's different. And so I think that's always the challenge for people is, you know, you think like you got something coming up, let's say in three weeks you're going to Vegas, you're like, yeah, man, I'd like to get a little more shredded and you think, oh, I'm going to do more than I'm already doing. It's like, that's not the right approach for someone who's already doing as much as you are. There's a better strategy if that was the goal. But if your ultimate goal is like, I'm passionate about what I do, I love teaching my classes, I want to be a strong guy. I mean, I think- And you're fit and healthy? I mean, it'd be no different than you being sacrificing time with your family so you can make an extra 10 grand a year. You know, if you're already doing really well, are you going to notice that extra 10 grand? It's not going to do much for you. Same thing with adding another three, four pounds of muscle and dropping, you know, a couple percent body fat, right? It's not going to make that big of a difference. And when you compare it to feeling good and having the time to spend with your family and doing things you enjoy, it's not worth it. Adrian, do you have the flexibility with the teaching classes where you can kind of dictate, right now I'm going to do 10 hours, maybe next week I'll do two, or do you have to kind of like stick to your 10 hour, how does that work? It's a set schedule, yeah. So I have a certain amount of a week. I do, sometimes there are options in terms of subbing so if somebody else can't do a class, maybe I might pick up an one or two extra, right? But I can decline that, I guess, right? Okay, because I mean, that's how, that's if, you know, again, if you're a client or a buddy of mine and you're like, yo, we got Vegas in a month and a half, like what should I do? And I'd be like, okay, well, let's cut back on those classes. Let's pick up a little bit more strength training. Let's dial the diet in. Like that's kind of the suggestion I would give you, like when you have those moments in your year. But other than that, I think you're onto the right track. I think your intuition was right. I think what all of us said is just, I'd cut to one day a week with that. If you're doing 10 hours, even if you were just doing five hours, to be honest with you, if you're doing five hours of teaching classes, especially if you're actually doing the classes with them, that's a lot. One day of strength training is enough to actually support you and actually keep good amount of muscle mass on you. Another option, we didn't say this to you and I'd love to give it to you, let's give it to you since what you already have in RGB is the MAPS 15. MAPS 15 would compliment kind of what you're doing, because you could also do that instead of one big day of training is like little micro workouts throughout the week. Yeah, two exercises a day. Yes, I actually think that you might, and that would be something fun to play with someone like, here's a good example of like how I might test that with you, go, hey, you know what? Actually, instead of doing like in a ball, let's run 15 and let's just do that and that actually might bring down the tolls. Show up to the gym like 20 minutes early, do a couple lifts, then teach your class and that'll be a bulk of the workouts. Okay, all right, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, play around with that and then get back to us. I'd actually really like to hear how you respond to that. Yeah, yeah, definitely. All right, man. All right, Adrian. All right, do you mind if I kind of share my Instagram and you mentioned it? Yeah, we got it. Oh yeah, what is it, Doug? You just had it up there. Yeah, go ahead, Adrian. I don't have it written right for me. It's the FitLife lawyer. Got it, FitLife lawyer. The boys on YouTube will definitely post some of the stuff while we're talking about you, so you'll see it on there. By the way, I like how you balance out, I like how you balance things out, you know what I mean? Like I'm a lawyer, so I also want to help people and do good things on top of it. Yeah. Help people. Yeah, you know, exactly. The lawyer part, you know, not as much with the helping stuff. I'm just kidding, man. I appreciate it. Thanks, man. Yeah, keep it up, man. Thanks, man. Take it easy. Thanks, guys. So we can get into heaven, you know what I mean? Yeah. You got to pay your penance. Yeah, no, it's, you know, listen, this is from personal experience. This is just a struggle for me. Is I'll trade life quality for, you know, extra 10 pounds of the bar, a little extra muscle, and it's just the lesson I got to keep revisiting because eventually I go, is this worth it? You know, the way I feel, is it worth this extra, whatever? It's not that big. It's not just notices but me. And I think that if you want longevity in the sense that you're doing this consistently, life quality is what'll keep you doing it forever. Not squeezing out an extra, you know, a couple pounds of muscle or whatever. That's not what brings that, you know? Yeah, that's just maturity. I mean, if you've been in it for as long as any of us or, you know, if you've just been in the gym a long time and been after it, it's like your priorities shift and to be able to support like things that you love doing and activities you love to do and all that, you can readjust it all to make it sort of balanced and, you know, at some point you're gonna get past the whole ego side of lifting. Yeah, I think there's a couple things there. One, I think that's kind of natural for type A personalities. And then two, I think people that consider themselves fitness people, you know, he's obviously building towards kind of building a business that way. He's putting himself out there on Instagram. Obviously you guys are fitness people that are all over the internet. There's a bit of the culture that surrounds that that you have to look this. You get caught up a little bit. Yeah, oh yeah. I mean, the people that get a lot of the attention have the craziest looking physiques or the strongest dude deadlifting or squatting. And if you're, I mean, I mean, I see comments on our YouTube and stuff like that. Like if I'm not fucking Mr. Jack guy, like I'm getting, you know, well, these guys telling me how to train. So there's a bit of that culture around that and that can fuck with you. And especially if you're already a type A person where you are a go-getter, it's like someone says something like that. Your personality is the type to like, well, I'm gonna show them, you know what I'm saying? I'm gonna get after it. I mean, it takes a lot of discipline, humility to not allow that noise to get into what's probably best for your body. Totally, I'm sorry to feel that way. I think you look great, Adam. Our next caller is Brett from Texas. Hey, how's it going? How can we help you? Good, how are you guys? Doing good. Great. Good. Well, thank you so much for taking the time. I'm sure you guys hear this all the time, but you really helped a lot of people when I was starting on like all the weightlifting stuff. It was really confusing and people were giving me all kinds of mixed answers about macros and things. So your podcast was like a real resource for me. So thank you very much. Thank you. Love that, all right. Yeah. And so my question is about hypermobility. It seems like there's a lot of people that touch on it, but not a lot of specialists and just like a not a lot of resources overall. I did a lot of research and I kind of went down the rabbit hole when I had this revelation, this might be where a lot of my pain is coming from. And when I originally reached out, I could really only find like one episode of Mind Pump that talked about it. And like Sal, you had mentioned that it was very rare and I don't know how old the podcast was, but like from the research I've done, it seems like it's actually about 15 to 20% of the population that is struggling with this. So my question is two parts. So I'll just start with the first one. I've been doing the same kind of mobility warmup for like the last probably like three years, four years. It's a lot of stretching, a lot of traditional mobility. And I'm just wondering like with this pain, like what type of warmup do you guys recommend? Give me a little bit more of a definition of what you mean by traditional stretch. Are you like getting it, like give me a stretch that you're doing and are you getting in that position and holding it? Are you moving through a range of motion and creating, you know, tell me. So like start with like knee holds and then, you know, just stretching up and then maybe like downward dog, cat cow, sort of like yoga like mobility movements. And then some lunges. And recently I've started to shift a little bit and do stuff like more with bands, but it's more of like a yoga-based kind of stretching warmup. But I'm super mobile, like just standing here, I could literally put my hands flat on the ground. And I think that I'm wondering that if I'm maybe stretching things more and it's making pain worse. Yeah, okay, so hypermobility, there's a range of what would be considered hypermobile. But the kind of hypermobility that I've worked with, I worked with a woman that it was quite extreme. I mean, literally she could bend her, she never stretched, it's just how she was. And it posed problems for her, she would hurt herself. Because when your mobility doesn't match your strength or your stability, it's instability. So this can go in either direction, right? You could be very tight and not have strength to stabilize movement or at least not be able to move outside of a range of motion without any weakness. And then that causes instability or you could be so mobile that your strength isn't able to support the ranges of motion that you move in. So essentially what's happening, and by the way, have you been diagnosed as hypermobile or was it self-diagnosis? Definitely self-diagnosis, but like I'll show you something really gross. I don't know if you can see that, but yeah, it's a thing. And it was a competitive cheerleader like Tumblr. So there was probably some innate hypermobility and I think like all the years of just stretching and holding my leg up next to my head and whatever else probably made it worse. Okay, so here's what happens with muscles that allow them to extend is your central nervous system essentially controls the muscle's ability to stretch and it's based off of your CNS believing what is safe and what's not safe, okay? Now there's sometimes, I don't know, for lack of a better term, miscommunication or misunderstanding and the CNS is like, yeah, we could just bend all over the place and this is okay. And so what ends up happening is you move within ranges of motion that you don't necessarily have the strength or the stability of support and this can cause pain, this can cause injury because there's no, the governors aren't necessarily there. So first let's talk about what you shouldn't do. You should do zero static stretching. You should do zero anything that aims to increase range of motion unless that range of motion is matched with strength and stability. If it's matched with strength and stability, it's okay. So I would do zero static stretching. In fact, I wouldn't, and this may be something that you do, I wouldn't sit in positions that are stretches for other people. It's not a goal to get to end range for you. It's a goal to gain muscle tension throughout the entire range. So meaning like, have you ever done any kin stretches? These are stretches where you're actually adding intensity in terms of isometric type tension. So you're squeezing your muscles all the way through that range of motion. So actually we do have a, what's it called? Your webinar that Adam did where he actually takes you through a lot of these poses that start out at your hips, work your way up all the way up through the connect chain to the shoulders. So you can address a lot of these, I guess, instabilities more than anything because really the problem isn't that you're flexible. You're obviously flexible. It's being able to have access to that and have strength in each part of that range. So that would be your focus. It's really slow down and really connect and squeeze and try to work your way out of these positions. Now, what I said earlier about sitting in, do you sit like Indian style or with your leg up on something? Do you sit in these like weird, okay, don't do that anymore. That's very common with people who are hyper-mobile. Yeah, it's really common because it probably feels good because it probably gives you some feedback and you can feel your body. Otherwise it feels like you're kind of loose. That's okay. I want you to sit and put yourself in positions where you're working or whatever, where you're not in a weird position that most people wouldn't be able to get into, okay? Because sometimes in fact, children can create this position when they sit, I don't know if you've ever heard this, but they'll tell people now, don't let your kids sit in hurtler's position. You ever see that where they sit on the floor and their legs are bent outside of their body like it's called a hurtler stretch? And they'll say, don't do that, that creates hyper-mobility in the hips, right? So I don't want you to sit or put yourself in any static position where an average person would have a tough time getting into because that's contributing to the problem. Now the second part, Justin gave you the answer, but I'm gonna give you, and I want you to go to that webinar, it's primeprowebinar.com and watch it. But I'm gonna tell you what to do with your normal workouts, okay? And I never say this, we almost never say this to people because this is not a common situation, but to someone like you, I would never go to my full range of motion with exercises, because your full range of motion is unstable. Like you could go way down with squats and do all kinds of crazy stuff. I would stop you, I would squat to just below 90 degrees. I would not do a stiff-legged deadlift where you could just bend yourself in half. I would stop where you think a healthy average person can get to. I would not do a fly and let my hands touch the floor. I would stop, if you were my client, I would stop you where the average healthy person could stop. So that means you're gonna have to control the stop and then come back. So you're gonna shorten your range of motion and build strength there. And as you get stronger there and feel comfortable there, then slowly, and I mean like half an inch at a time, move into different ranges of motion, get used to that and continue until you can build strength in these full ranges of motion. Brett, do you have any of our programs already? No, I don't. Okay, so I mean, symmetry is someone what I would probably start her with. I mean, she's got traditional strength. I know she could do anabolic. I just like the isometric component from her in symmetry to start her. And plus the emphasis on the negative to the easy. I like symmetry first and then maps anabolic after that. So I'm gonna have Doug give you symmetry. And then what I'm gonna give you as an example, so you're not overthinking what Sal just said, is follow the model. Where the model takes the range of motion, that's what you do. That's where you stop. Don't go further just because you can. What the model does in the demo, that's what you mirror. Okay, so it just literally follow it like that. And symmetry is gonna do, watch the Prime Pro webinar Justin's talking about, that'll compliment what we're talking about. Follow map symmetry to a T and then follow the range of motion that the model is performing in the videos. Time under tension. So really slow it down, keep that pace really slow. So it's all about tempo for you and making sure you have that muscle connection. Yeah, so do you do yoga? Not really, not anymore. Like I've gotten to the point where it honestly kind of hurts. Yeah, you don't need to be doing that. But first of all, thank you for the program. That's very generous. I'm super excited to try it. And especially like the hip or the pain seems to be really bad on my right side, on my right hip. I've actually started doing back squats with bands. And I would love to know what you guys think about that. Like a, not a stretchy one more of, I feel, I forget the name, but it's like a cough. Like a hip circle around your knees? A hip circle around your knees? Yeah, yeah. All that's doing is, that's fine. And what that's doing is it's helping you activate some of the muscles that you need for stability. So, okay, think of it this way. Do not allow your muscles or body or breath to relax while you strength train. Now, normally I would tell people to not be so tense, but for you, we're trying to create tension. So when you're grabbing the bar, squeeze it while you're doing it. Be aware of all the muscles in your body. Maintain tension, brace your core. I want you to breathe through the back of your mouth, like a Ujjayi breath, they will call it in yoga, right? You wanna create tension. Cause what I, my experience with people who are hypermobile is they'll do an exercise and it's almost like they're relaxing while they're doing the movement because that's what their body wants to do. So you're gonna stay tight. You're gonna hold on the bar and squeeze it and squeeze the muscles that are just- Almost like somebody's gonna hit you in the stomach. Yeah, and you're bracing though. And if that means you only do six reps because you get exhausted, that's okay. But we're trying to create central nervous system, activation and tension. Which by the way, that's why you like that hip circle around your knees. That's what it's doing. It's doing that for you. So it's not a bad thing, but also keep in mind, we're trying to get you to learn to do that intrinsically. Versus having to have a tool. Cause you're not gonna have a tool all day long wrapped around your knees like that. So it feels good because it's helping provide the stability and the tension that we want you to learn to, but we want you to learn to do that without the tool. Learning to stay tight like Sal was saying through the movements. But again, follow symmetry, follow it. And that tension we're talking about is in the isometric portion. So you'll get the concept from that going through that. But follow those programs, watch the webinar that Justin suggested and then just stay in time. You know what? Well, let's get you in the forum too actually. That way we can keep an eye on you as you're going through this process. Are you on Facebook? Yeah. I'm gonna have Doug give you free access to the forum too. That way you can give us feedback as you're going through it. Cause I know this can be a bit challenging. Like it is different, it is unique. We are gonna tell you to shorten your range. So it's not the common stuff you'll hear us talk about. So we're gonna throw you in there and then give us feedback. I hate to throw too much at you, but one good squat to focus on is the Dunphy squat. And we have a video about that as well, but it's just something that helps you really focus on how to create that kind of support system in your body and in bracing effect. Yeah, Brett, do you do cold dip or cold showers or anything like that? Yeah, I do all the things. The sauna is the cold. Avoid the sauna. Don't do anything that makes the CNS relax the muscles while you're going through this process. But the cold is good. The cold is good. So I would go cold dip or cold shower and I would do that before the workout. Okay. Okay. And just like to kind of recap, you're saying I don't know if maybe the warmups in the programs are already like cure, you know, meant for hypermobile, but I think that was kind of what I was concerned about is just going into a workout cold. Like, do you think should I just not do any sort of stretching and just start like warming up with just the bar or something? The stuff that's in Prime Pro that Justin talked about, that's the type of stuff you want to do before. That's first and foremost. So when you watched Prime Pro webinar that he talked about. That'll show you what you do. That'll show you movements. And you'll see, I go from your ankles all the way up to your neck. So when you're doing lower body movements, do the lower body type of priming movements. When you're doing upper body stuff, do the upper body. Pay attention to how he coaches it though. Yeah, that's the biggest point of that is the cues that I'm giving to teach you how to create tension. But that's how you warm up is doing stuff like that before you go into it. Not your traditional yoga stretches. Right, now worst case scenario, you would literally do the exercise you're supposed to do and do a couple sets of that exercise with lighter weight and just stay real tense. Because we're trying to turn things on, okay? Typical warm up is like getting people to improve, you know, pliability, range of motion, whatever you're like, we got to turn your CNS on. So the webinar is key, but worst case scenario in a pinch, just do the exercise you're gonna do, do it lighter, and try and be real tense and tight while you do it. The suggestion that Justin actually gave is a really good one, because it kind of lights up the whole body, the dump-feed squat that he said. Yeah, we'll send you a link to the video. Yeah, that's a cool one to kind of light everything up too. But again, you're gonna be in the forum, so this way you can give us feedback as you're going through what you're noticing. If you're having any challenges, just tag us when you comment in there and the guys will help you out. Okay, awesome. Well, I don't wanna take up too much time, but I just did have a second part of my question, if that's okay. Sure. So I kind of just felt called to move into the world of fitness and nutrition and my careers in marketing, experiential marketing, but this is kind of like where I feel like I want to go. And I'm just wondering if you guys have any recommendations for like certifications or for becoming a professional. Easy. Yeah, NCI is the place to go. And then what's that link? Hang tight, we got you this year. Is that ncicoaching.com? Is that the link there, Doug? Yeah, I believe so. Yeah, that's go there, they're the best. I mean, they'll teach you and, but they'll also teach you how to build a business. The whole business end of it. Everything. That's the most important part. The rest of it, you can get educated in all kinds of different ways. If you haven't already, and this is for our audience listening, anytime you're looking for the stuff that we recommend, you can go to mindpumppartners.com, NCI, and everything else that we talk about is on there. So if you haven't scrolled through that page, check it out. You'll like all the things that we have on there and the links are all right in there. Go to ncimindpump.com. They have some free resources there. Oh, there you go. NCI Mind Pump. There it is. Awesome. All right, Brad. Well, thank you guys. I really appreciate it. You got it. Thank you for going there. Yeah. A lot of people are like, oh, flexibility, great. You don't get hurt. No, if it doesn't match your strength. It's actually one of the worst rates of injury. In fact, I would have told her, she didn't even have to say, I would have asked her, I bet it's your hip, your hip and maybe even low back, but it's almost always, if you look at the hip injury rate among yoga instructors, it's astounding. Difficult to train too. I've had, and I've had younger kids with that issue and then also adults, but it's just, man, it's such a slow process, but it's really important that they learn how to control their body and stay tense and be able to support their joints. 15 to 20%, I didn't know that. Yeah, under the classic definition of hypermobility, but I've only worked with a color. I was like, whoa. It was like two or three. I think two. I think I've had my entire career. It's not common. Our next caller is Magdalini from Illinois. Magdalini, how can we help you? Love your name by all means. Oh, thank you. I love you guys. I love your podcast. I'm sure you get that all the time. So I guess I'll just get into my question. So I just finished anabolic for the first time and I don't really feel like I gained any strength. So generally, I don't feel like I'm very strong and I kind of ended up finishing the program with the same amount of weights that I began with, particularly like my squat, my deadlifts, my bench press, and I'm just really not sure how to get stronger in the gym. Did you do it in a diet? Were you eating less calories? Were you trying to lean out? Were you intact? So I generally don't really count my calories. I didn't really change anything in my diet. So I'm guessing my calories are probably a little bit on the lower side to begin with. So the other thing is too, MAPS and Ebola has three phases. So the first phase is low reps and then you kind of moderate reps and then at the end it's high reps just to kind of summarize. Did you add reps to the weight or was it the same weight, same reps that you tested? Like I need a little context. So I basically followed the program the way it's mapped out and I tried to add a little bit of weight but I really feel like either I couldn't do it or I was just kind of afraid to add more weight because I'm not always confident that my form is 100% on point. So I don't want to put on too much weight for fear that I might injure myself. Sure. Okay, but did you do the same? Like when you started with the program, you had let's say X amount of pounds on the bar for a squat and the first phase tells you to do let's say up to five reps. Then the second phase tells you to go eight to 12 and the third phase is like 15 to 20. Did you use the same weight in every phase? Or did you lower the weight when you went to eight to 10 reps? No, I pretty much used the same weight. You got a lot stronger. You got a lot stronger then. If you did more reps, that means you're stronger. So if I did, let me say this, if I did 100 pounds- By the way, that's like really good too. That's incredible strength. If I did, let's say I did 100 pounds for five reps in phase one and then phase two I did 100 pounds for 10 reps and then phase three I did 100 pounds for 15 reps, your strength exploded. Yeah, big time. Okay. In fact, when you, and the way you know and test is go back to phase one and see if you can add say 10 to 15 pounds to the bar and you will be able to. Without even, I'd know for a fact, if you went, say would just say 100 pounds. If you use the same weight all the way through. You got strong. Way strong. Yeah. Nobody does that. Was this, is this your first kind of foray into strength training like this? So I've been lifting, I'm using this kind of loosely, weight for at least the past 10 years, sometimes with personal trainers, other times on my own, but never really focused on, with the exception of one personal trainer that I worked with and never really focused on like bench press, deadlift, squats. It was mostly like kind of dumbbell work. This is really the first time I've actually been trying to get better at like my squat and my deadlifts. And I've never really done a cut or a bulk. So I just kind of, my diet isn't 100% right. You're okay. That's part of it, but not huge. So there's a difference between training with weights and strength training. Okay. Training with weights means I'm using weights. So I can use weights a million and one different ways. I could do cardio with weights. I could do flexibility training with weights, right? Strength training doesn't even require weights. I could do that with body weight. I could do that with bands. But the idea behind strength training is to get stronger and to build muscle. Training with weights just means I'm trying to sweat and work out. So it sounds like this is relatively new in the sense that you're, where you're doing more of a focused, like strength training session. And strength is you're stronger if you do more weight for the same reps or if you do more reps with the same weight. Both of them mean you got a lot stronger. So if you use the same weight from the beginning to the end. That's way stronger. Your strength gains went up a lot. A lot. Now to touch on the diet, Magdalena, I don't, you know, we don't need to go crazy with diet. Just check the protein. That's it. Just check the protein. Try and hit your body weight in protein. And that just needs the building material. That'll turbo charge it all. That's like part of the problem too. Like I'm probably getting, I know I'm not getting enough protein. It's probably like 50 grams a day is bad. Yeah. If you got your protein, you go through that program again. I mean, first of all, you already had tremendous results. I just want to make that clear. Like someone to, if I go through that program, I can not do the weight that I'm doing in phase one. I have to reduce the weight significantly by the time I get to phase three. That's it. Because that's just how it works. That's tremendous strength gains. And if you did that in spite of like, even hitting your protein intake, you hit your protein intake consistently and you go through that program again. And I think you're going to see even more gains. Yeah. And don't feel like, honestly, this is pretty common in terms of like the intention going into each one of these phases. I think a lot of my clients, especially two and women would pick weights that they normally feel comfortable with. And so this is one of those things. When you drop the amount of reps that you're doing, this is a completely different type of a focus in place you need to get into psychologically to where you have to put a lot more force and effort into when you start loading it's substantial about more weight. So I could see how that didn't feel like, as you're moving along like the reps, you're probably more used to doing more reps than you are less reps. Magdalene, if you don't want me asking, what's your body weight? I try not to weigh myself, but last time I went to the doctor was like 120 pounds. Okay. If you ate 100 grams of protein a day, okay, so let's go, let's say 33 to 35 grams of protein for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Prioritize that, okay? If you did that and you followed maps on Ebola again, you're going to see significant changes in body composition. Like you're going to get leaner and more sculpted. Your body weight might not even change on the scale, but you're going to look in the mirror and be like, holy cow, what's going on? And the strength gains are going to be phenomenal. By the way, your strength gains were phenomenal. Nobody goes from sets of five reps to sets of 15 reps and keeps the same weight unless they're doing just phenomenal strength gains. That's just crazy. But if you ate about 100 grams of protein a day, every day consistently, follow maps on Ebola again, you're going to blow yourself away. Now, let's talk about what you were doing 15 reps. Okay, so let your squat, how much weight was on the bar? On the end of the program, like it obviously was the same all the way through. So what were you using to squat? So total was probably 100 pounds. Okay, yeah, you easily could go to 135. Holy shit, 100 pounds and a body weight of 120 and sets of 15. 15 reps is strong, that's actually really good. You're doing great. You should easily be able, when you get back to phase one again, easily go to 135. So the 45s on each side. Here's what we're going to do, Magdalini, because what you need is a little coaching because I can hear the confusion or the uncertainty in the way you're asking the question. I'm going to put you in our forum and if you don't mind videotaping yourself doing some of these exercises, videotape the whole set, right? So however many reps you do, videotape the whole thing, then put it in there and you could tag us or not. We have a lot of good trainers in that forum and just say, hey, how does my technique look? Should I add more weight? Is this the right weight? And get some feedback and then use that forum as a way to coach you so that you build a little bit of confidence and certainty with this type of training. But I mean, geez, if you were a potential client and you came to me with what you just said, oh, I'd be rubbing my hands together like, oh boy, this is going to be amazing. Can't wait to get my hands on this person. I guess I just don't feel like I really got stronger because I don't feel like it's like visible on my body. And I guess that is more, takes time. Yes, and that also plays more of a role with a diet too. So what you gained was the benefits of your CNS and the ability for you to summon the strength to lift the weights. You definitely gain strength, that's for sure. You might not have added a lot of muscle to your body from it because we didn't hit our protein intake. If you're low calorie and not hitting protein, you can still get stronger, especially for somebody who's really just getting into these movements, and that's what you experience. The reason why you're not seeing it visually has a lot to do with the diet. And so that's why we gave that advice of like, let's not worry too much about a bunch of things, just hit the protein intake. If you consistently hit 100 grams every day while going through this program again, you'll see a difference. I promise you'll see a difference. Let me ask you this too, Magdalini, if you're close friends or people that you trust, very close to you, do they ever say things to you like, oh my God, what are you talking about? You look amazing or, I mean, this looks great. Do you ever have that discrepancy where you say, I don't look good, and they say, oh, you look phenomenal. Does that ever happen to you? Yeah, but I guess I'm my own worst critic. I don't really feel like I look good enough or I'm strong enough. So, but yeah, and I feel it, especially in my shirts, they feel tight across my back. Yeah, so here's why I'm saying that, Magdalini. You don't weigh yourself, and that tells me that it's probably a little triggering to weigh yourself. Looking in the mirror is subjective, okay? So, I haven't worked with you, I don't know you very well. I'm just gonna have a hunch here, just gonna have worked with a lot of people. I don't think you should trust what you think you see in the mirror, honest to God. I think you should just base it off of your performance in the gym, hitting those targets, and kind of ignoring your own self-judgment, because I would bet a lot of money that if I worked with you and you used the same weight that you did five reps, and you did 15 reps, that you would look different. That's, I mean, 100 pounds is not a little bit of weight for someone who weighs 120 pounds, that's pretty good. I bet you look different. I think you're probably looking through a filter that's a little distorted, and you might already have recognized that. So, I would use the bar and the gym and how much you're lifting and how it feels more as a judgment than the mirror because you probably can't trust your subjective opinion too much, not at this point at least. Okay, so your suggestion is to go through anabolic again, and then after that, do you have a suggestion as to which program I should do? Performance. Yeah, performance would be probably the best one. Yeah, performance would be next. But I want you in the forum, I want you to get some feedback from the people in there. Okay, yes. Great, thank you. You got it, thanks for calling in. Thanks guys. No problem. Yeah, boy, you know, I tell you what, a very close call, assuming not getting results from anabolic. Yeah, just debunked. You know what, if we didn't have the experience that we had, because I want people to understand, coaches in particular, if you're listening, we asked the questions we did because of our experience, because a lot of people would have taken that at face value, oh, you think it's stronger, let's figure out what the problem was. But I knew, I thought, are you doing the same weight throughout the whole program? Like she is judging it by the weight on the bar and not realizing that doing more reps means you're stronger. That's a lot stronger. That's a crazy strength. She made crazy gains. That's crazy strength. I mean, she should be able to come back now and easily put 135 on the bar for five. If you're doing 100 pounds for 15, I got you doing 135 for five easily. There'll be a little, like, it'll be a psychological battle for her. So her just feeling that weight is gonna be scary. But so that would be half the work is just to get her comfortable. Yeah, in fact, I'd go up to 110 just to make her comfortable. There is that possibility that she chose the weight she could do for 15 to do five. And started with this weight. And that's why she feels that way too. That's 100%. She's used to doing more circuit-based training and that's a weight she feels very comfortable. So comfortable she could do 15, which would also play into why she doesn't feel that much stronger and maybe even look at it. I do wanna add, I know you said that she's not her best critic, but I'm always careful of that because I know what it's like to be like certain, like, I know, I don't see like that. And nutrition plays such a huge role in what you see in the mirror. And if you're living in a caloric deficit a lot of times, and in the bodybuilding you hear us talk about, we call it the flat look. She's not filled all the way out. That will make you look like you're not building muscle. I mean, I'm literally going through this with one of my old clients of mine. I'm helping her with her diet getting lean right now. And she's like, so discouraged. And I'm like, I can see it. I said, you're flat. That's why I said, if I were to give you a 500 calorie surplus the next two days, you would look totally different. And it's not like I built a bunch of muscle in two days. It's just that I filled you out. And so there's a major psychological component when you talk about what I look like in the mirror. And you can't just judge that. And then the... Here's the other clue. She's like, I feel like my shirts are tied around my shoulders. Okay, sounds like you built some muscle. Build some muscle here in the shoulder. Look, if you love the show, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out all of our free fitness guides. They'll help you and they're nothing, they cost nothing, they're free. You can also find all of us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump. Justin, I'm at Mind Pump DiStefano and Adam is at Mind Pump Adam.