 Welcome to Finding Your Piece of the Rock on Think Tech, Hawaii. I'm your host, Abe Lee. I've been a licensed real estate agent since 1973. I'm the owner of Century 21, I Propered Hawaii, and work with close to 100 wonderful agents in real estate sales. I started Abe Lee seminars in 1980. I have taught over 10,000 students to get their real estate licenses and have taught continuing education classes for licensees to renew their license every two years. Our show is dedicated to helping buyers and sellers understand the process involved in real estate transactions. Our special guests will talk about legal issues, escrow, title, getting a loan, surveys, home inspections, insurance contracts, rules and trust, and much, much more. Our special guest today is Tom Kiabu, who I'll explain to you in a little while why he's with us. Tom, thank you so much for being with us. Thank you so much, Abe, for inviting me to your wonderful show. Thank you. So Tom, give us a little background on, I know this is a second career for you. So what did you do before? Tell us your background and your education, your family, and things that people should know about you. Well, thank you, Abe. Yeah, you know, a lot of people don't realize that I was a farmer's son until sixth grade. We had a farming colleague. He close to the end of the way we warm is, he mentioned my dad moved his farm to Leeward Community College. In time, he was evicted because of house development. We moved to Hyco Gardens. He also got evicted again for future housing out there. So in the 60s, he decided to say, I'm giving up farming and decided to go self-learn and got his real estate license. He became an agent, eventually became have his own brokerage, mainly targeting on real estate investment out there. So that is my upbringing. Then in 19, 2000 and in 1975, I decided my friend, my good friend said, hey, why don't you join UPS? I said, what is that? What is UPS? I was a local boy. I had no clue what UPS was. UPS came in and bought an existing PUC company out here. So I decided to become a part-time. 1976, I became a full-time driver. So in the meantime, I was a senior at UH University of Hawaii. I had to tell my mom that, look, I'm putting a hold on my education and she got totally mad at me for saying, why are you becoming a truck driver? Just finish up your schooling. And I promised mom that I would finish up my schooling. Well, I became a full-time driver. Eventually, in the meantime, I spent three years going through weekend classes and night classes in order to get my degree, finally getting my degree three years later. So in 1979, I got promoted as supervisor in 1984, became a customer service rep. 1984 is when I got my real estate license. Why? Because my dad was a brokerage and he's mandated all five of us to get their real estate license, which I did. There was a path. There was a career path to determine which way do I go? Do I become a full-time real estate guy or do I become a UPS supervisor or a career in UPS? I decided to go as a UPS career. Why? Because my dad worked 24-7, constantly getting phone calls, the renters calling in day and night. So I said, forget it. I'm going to UPS. Realizing UPS is also 24-7. When you work on weekends, you take phone calls, you read emails, et cetera, et cetera. Well, that was my career through the next until 2009, 2016, when I finally retired at UPS. This is simply overseeing Hawaii overall, the operations. Funny point is that in 2019, 1976, when we first got our packages, we had 2,000 packages, 25 drivers, 15 employees. By the time we retired in 2016, we had over 32,000 packages. We contacted 22,000 stops every day, 150 drivers and over 600 employees. So what's the story behind this whole thing is that, what I do realize is that employees make the difference. If you take care of the employees, the employees are going to take care of the customers. That's how you protect your brand. So it was an exciting career for me. Finally, in 2019, I decided to go back into real estate. I did not want to go back to work after retirement because I was simply burned out from corporate. My friends kept telling me how to get my kids back home, how to get my kids back home that went to the mainland, got the college degree, and decided to stay there and now they want to come back home. And the only way to come back home is through home ownership. So I decided to get my license in 2019. I'll have my license with Abe. And from here, my mission, really simply my mission and purpose is try to get Dohana back together in Hawaii. Great. Now, Tom passed this really quickly, but he was a manager for all of UPS for the state of Hawaii. I don't know if you understood the magnitude of that job. So how long were you the head for UPS in Hawaii? Well, as a division manager in 1989, overseeing the entire operations and finally in the last five years, I oversaw the staff to it. Okay. So I was very blessed and fortunate. You worked hard. I give you credit. So when Tom took my real estate school, I knew the Kiyabu name. So I said, Hey, so and so your brother or sister go, Yeah. And then I said, I taught your nephews and nieces in real estate classes. So I knew the Kiyabu family really well, except I didn't know Tom. So we got the chance to meet with him. And of course, he joined us. So I'm very, very grateful for that. So Tom, let's get into this passion of yours. You said that your motivation is helping the younger kids to come back to Hawaii and be able to afford a home. So what led you to that? Yeah, you know, when I looked at, one thing that's really important for me is that, you know, I just came off the road delivering meals and wheels, Hawaii meals and wheels, excellent, commit a nonprofit organization. I go and meet and provide meals to there. A lot of them are seniors. A lot of them are seniors. And often they, I have a sense of sadness in their eyes, because the kids are all on the mainland. So aside from my friends that the kids on the mainland, they're all by themselves at home. I also have clients that are going to deliver and they also feel the same way too. So who is going to take care of the Kapunos of the future, where there's no one around that's going to support them. It's unfortunately kids that eventually come back when, when the parents pass away, but we don't want that happening. So it was where it's so very important for me to make sure that we try to get the Hana back here. We also realize that it's four years of decline as far as our population is a lot of people are leaving the islands and not coming back. You know, the most famous saying that Ian Tongi, the American Idol winner this year, which we are so very proud is that he says price a lot of paradise. This is a prime example what's happening. When we start losing our people, our local people, we also putting, we also losing part of our Lord spirit that existed in Hawaii, that exists in Hawaii that makes us very, very special. So there's absolutely a very important mission that we need to do. Oh, I need to do. Great. So Tom, your president, current president of a nonprofit called Aria Aloha chapter. What does that stand for? And what is your mission as a president of this chapter? Aria, Aria is Asian Real Estate Association. America was formed in 2003. It's really to help and assist and really it's helping assist the AAPI and NH, which is American Asian American Pacific Islanders native Hawaiians, which constitutes 70% of a population of Hawaii. These are the people that's really underserved. And really, a goal is really to educate them, give them an opportunity to learn about what can they do to become a home owner, which are a tremendous amount of benefits when you become a homeowner in Hawaii. So our goal is to try to get more people, the population here, stay in Hawaii. One thing is extremely important is that we're talking about the middle class people that is starting to fade away and heading to the mainland. The middle class people are your teachers, their firemen, your policemen, you know, the people that work in the stores, the UPS drivers, et cetera. Those are the middle classes. If we start losing that middle class, not only we, we're losing a little spirit, but also why would businesses want to come to Hawaii when there's no workers? So that's another reason why it's so important to keep our people home. Okay, great. Now, I understand that you had a seminar just recently with your friends from UPS and clients. And what was the goal of that seminar? And what were you trying to teach them? Okay, one thing, you know, if you look at the data statistics overall, and some of the things I just want to share with you that, you know, our land zone for urban is 5% in entire Hawaii. In Oahu, it's 30%. 30% of our land is zoned for urban usage. And what is urban usage? Residentials, commercials, apartments, industrials, et cetera. The other 70% of preservation is agriculture. So we have very limited land out here. Also realize, if you look at the data, as far as new sales is concerned, this year over last year, year to date, we're 36 per down on sales. Condos are down by 38%. But most important that our listings have been going down the last two years, both in single family and condominiums. So what do we put our position is that sometimes we just look at, look at as agencies, hey, look, there's no listings, there's no inventory, people can afford it because the interest rates are too high. But working with Abe, and he's an excellent teacher as far as zoning, is providing an opportunity or different lenses to look at things. Looking at things, for example, the event that we held on Saturday, which included half UPS is a half of my clients, is to look at things such as, look at your existing real estate right now. Look at your house and your land. What can you do? Can you subdivide it? Can you CPR it? Can you aid you with it, et cetera, et cetera? And why is that important to keep your family home? Okay, so let's take one at a time, because you said a mouthful. So let's start with Ohana. What does Ohana mean? Okay, Ohana is specifically, it's got to be a visiting era. It's not anywhere you can build. Ohana is allowing you to build another home. Okay, another home on your lot, but it has to be designated in your area. That is, you can provide a wet bar only, not a full kitchen. And this is really for your Ohana, for your families, for your aunties, for your uncles to keep them at home. Ohana, that's what Ohana zoning is. Okay, now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Ohana, you can have a full kitchen with a permit, but you have to rent to relatives only. Oh, maybe you're right. You could be right. I'm not sure about that, but yeah. All right, but it has to be for family only, right? That's what Ohana is. That's right. Now, what's ADU staff for then? ADU is accesses dwellings. Okay, access for a dwelling unit? Yes, dwelling unit. Okay, and these are for places that you can use, not just for family rent. You can use it for rentals or somewhere else. So, you need to have a certain size lot in order to have an ADU. ADU, for example, if you have a lot that's less than 5,000 square feet, you can build an ADU on your property at 400 square feet. If it's over 5,000 square feet on land, you can build an ADU up to 800 square feet. There's different types of ADUs. You have internal ADUs where you can redesign your home. There's also what they call attached ADUs that you can add a garage, et cetera, et cetera. Or there's also a detached ADU that you can build little cottage in the back of your property out there. So, again, these are meant for rent if you want to rent it out to someone else. Okay, so let's summarize then. With Ohana, you can have it attached or detached with no size limit, but it has to be rented to relatives. But with ADU, you're limited to 400 square feet or 800 square feet. But that one, you don't have to rent to relatives and you could rent it to anybody. Is that correct? That's correct. Okay, so then let's talk about what we call R5 zoning on the land use ordinance on Oahu. What does R5 stand for? R5 is that your land, your lot is 5,000 square feet. Okay. Is that R5? No. Restricted? Residential. Residential. That your lot needs to be at least 5,000 or greater. Okay. That's the virus in R5. So now let me ask you. We have an R5 zone property. It's 5,000 square feet to 7,499 square feet without ADU or Ohana. Can you build one house that's attached? No, can you build a house at all if it's under 7,500 square feet? No. Okay. You can do a duplex. Okay. That's R5 zone. How many square feet? 7,500? Yeah. If you have 7,500 or more, you can have a detached single family home or a detached home. Okay. But can you do a duplex on R5 zone land? Yes. Okay. So then what if you have 10,000 square feet and R5 zone land? Now, can you have a detached or attached? You can have a duplex. Okay. R10, R5, sorry. R5, 10,000 square feet. You can have it either a duplex, depending on the, I guess, the topography, or if you had flat land, you could possibly have two homes that are detached from each other. Is that correct? Yes. That's correct. Okay. So now let's go over this again. You got R5 and under 5,000 square feet, usually 3,500 to 4,999 square feet. You can have an ADU, 400 square feet max. You have 5,000 square feet or more. You can have ADU max 800 square feet. And if you have R5, 7,500 square feet or bigger, you could have a duplex. And then R5 with 10,000 square feet or more, it could be attached or detached. Is that the rule of zoning? That's correct. Okay. So what are you telling your friends when you meet with them and say, Hey, let's see if we can get you another house on your property. That's correct. What do you tell them? That's correct. So most of my friends have kids. And their mindset is simply this, they live in a home that mortgage paid off. And then they forget how to buy a place for their kids. What can we do to afford or help them support and buy a home for them? I'm also making them come back to their home or to their family state that says, look, these are things that you can do for your home. It's not simply buying something outside. What did you do something inside within your lot based on the zoning? Whether it's an ADU, which is Asian place is great for grandparents, or to have a separate single family home or duplex, keeping the family together. Not only that, you also can create it into a passive income where it will support you as you retire in time. Okay. Now, I understand that all of these ADU, Ohana, duplex, two homes, you have to get what they call a sewer adequacy form approved. Tell us about that. You just went through one. Yes, I did. And I thought there was an opportunity to have split the $21,000 lot into two separate lots and sell it separately. Unfortunately, I apply for the sewer adequacy with the city and county and the deny it. Why? Because the sewer system they have right now is not adequate enough to have additional homes out there. So it's so very important before even going to deciding what to do with your home, you need to apply it for the sewer adequacy, put an application with the city and county, determine whether it's approved or disapproved. If disapproved, can do it. So in your case, what did they say was inadequate? There's not enough sewer capacity on the roadways in order to take another house or another dwelling. But that was for that neighborhood, right? That's correct. Okay. Because I've gotten approval from other areas where they had adequate sewage. So let's take the hypothetical that there is adequate sewage. Now, can you go ahead and start the process of trying to build a second home? Absolutely. Yes, you can. Okay. Good. All right. So that's really important. And Tom went through this sewer adequacy form for a client in New Anu. He had double lot, R10 zone, which is 10,000 square foot minimum. And unfortunately, the sewer department said inadequate sewage, which is a really disappointment. We're hoping to be able to get that second house for the client, right? Okay. So Tom, how do you work with your clients? Say your friend says, hey, I have my son or daughter, and they want to buy a house. What's your process? What do you do with them? Well, for me, it's really, really, truly important that I really would go into a deep discussion as far as what their goals are, what their dreams and what their goals. Just imagine what your dreams and goals are. At the end result is this is where they want to be. Let's work on a plan to get there. For example, they want to end up living in Hawaii, and right now they don't own anything. So what we'll do is look for opportunities or places that, first of all, they can afford, or maybe neighborhoods that there is more equity gains, appreciation, there may be other property or other places. And this keep and develop a plan. A plan might be from five years to 10 years. But if we develop a plan for our clients out there, and we stand touch with them all the way, then they will get to their goals. They will get to the goals. So this is how I work with them. One thing that's really important for any of the clients, as I learned from UPS, is really building a relationship and trust. As I mentioned, what UPS is, the results come through people. Results come through people. So if you build the relationships and trust, and you stay on top as far as communications, you quality on your approach, and you always on time, then people are going to recognize you. And they're going to say, hey, you know what, this agent or this advisor is good to follow. And so these are really important things that I just apply. So for me, it's not about the end results. It's not about a commission check. That's not, it's not even talking about that. It's a matter of how to get our people from one point to another. Also, keep in mind that I totally realize coming from a blue collar environment, people work super hard to save their money. And they work really, really hard, whether it's one, two, three jobs in order to save for the down payment and be able to support the family and also the mortgage. Every penny or every dollar that they look at is really important for them. It's that it doesn't just come from the sky. I really believe that they deserve to have the best advice along the way based on how hard they work to save their money. Okay. So you had a couple, a daughter of one of your friends, and they became your clients, and you were able to find them a place. Tell us the process that you went through with them, as they were looking and they almost, you said they almost fired you because you made so many offers and you couldn't get it during the COVID, you know, hot market. So what happened there? 2021, again, when I talk to the parents, you know, they have daughters and often there are people, they're like one child only. The kids are thinking about leaving to the mainland, which to me is the easiest thing to do is just leave the islands. And I realized and I talked to the parents who realized that it's going to be extremely lonesome for them as they age into the 80s and 90s, not having no one around. Because frankly, as a child leaves a mainland, a kid leaves a mainland, it's hard for them to come back because the gap of as far as affordability between the days or the years that go by, it's going to be so large that it's going to be almost impossible to afford anything in Hawaii. So I've talked to the parents, the parents is kind enough to at least help with the deposit or down payment. And from there, once that kicks off, the child is like looking forward. And let me tell you, there's a couple of my clients right here, they would have left to the mainland. If they, if I did not find a place to stay, there's no doubt in my mind, they would have left and gone to the mainland and maybe not be turned back as the parents have been placed by themselves. So let's take an example. Let's say you have a client that has a house a lot on R5's own land. And let's say they have 6,000 square feet and they're still adequacy. So they cannot put a duplex because the lot's not big enough, but they could do an ADU with 800 square feet, which would be pretty substantial, you know, a big one bedroom or small two bedroom with a bath or two. So now if they were with a bill on that backyard or upstairs or over the garage, then you could possibly have them stay home. Absolutely. So again, the mindset in our lens, when you look at things, the automatic thing, you got to buy a property out there, a condo, a house, a duplex, etc, etc. But sometimes you just bring it back at home with your lot that you live in and look at the abilities, look at the capabilities based on your zoning, you can automatically just build something there. And by the way, it doesn't cost as much because you already own the land already. So is this a matter of developing an addition for a family to stay there? So there's a lot of cost savings when we do that. So let's go one step further. Let's say we have an R5's own land, 7,500 square feet or bigger, and they can put a duplex. Now there's a thing called a CPR, condominium property regime. What would that allow the family to do as far as the mortgages are concerned? Can they split the mortgage out and have a separate mortgage raise home? Yes, absolutely. Okay. So that means the kid can have his own mortgage or her mortgage. Parents might have their property free and clear. So now the children are living there and they become part owners of that house, but you can condominiumize and separate out the ownership. That's a possibility. Yes, it is. And the good thing about this whole thing, owning real estate is generational. We eventually can just pass it on once parents pass away. And that's really a good thing about it. And in turn, you can pass it on to the grandkids. Right. And again, this is another way of keeping families home in Hawaii through ownership. Okay. So we're almost out of time, but you've been donating a lot of money to different charities on the sale of your property. What do you do in that case when there's a sale that's done? Yeah. So Abe has a tremendous opportunity to give back to the community. This is his program that he built. It's called a 10% give back of your commission. And there's not too many people that do that. 10% back to nonprofit organizations, the choice of either the buyer or seller. You know, it's so very important. And I gotta say that I'm super blessed in life. I'm really super blessed in life. Now is the time in life just to give back because there are a lot of people out there that need some help, whether it's financial, whether it's volunteer, whether it's supposed to be emotionally supported by them. I see it. You all see it. We need to help our caputans out there. And by the way, the caputans by the year 2030, a third of them are 60-plus years old. We need to find out what we can do with our population, all these caputans, these people that's aging in place. We need to help them too. Okay. We're at the two minute morning now. Tom, any last advice as a UPS head, having managed hundreds of people or having worked with friends with their children, giving money to charities, any last minute advice? Well, I'm just, you know, keep the faith and keep the hope. You know, we're going through our financial challenges right now. Every 10 years we go through this. I've gone through four decades of ups and downs as far as the economy is concerned. It's going to pass. But in the meantime, we have to be, want to be creative enough to come up with different ideas through our different lenses while supporting the community out there. It's so absolutely very important to take care of each other. This is what we call the law spirit, caring for each other with love. Thank you, Tom. I know you have a son that you hope to bring back home soon. And he went to med school up there, and hopefully he'll come back. But Tom, thank you so much for your time, for your dedication, and for your great generous spirit on giving money back to charities of your client's choice. And so hopefully your mission of creating affordable housing and helping your clients utilize their land would be, you know, fulfilled. Thank you so much, folks, for being with us. If you like the show, let people know about it. And also, all of our Think Tech Kauai shows are archived at Think Tech Kauai. And if you have any questions about real estate education, you can go to ablyseminars.com and you can see our website. And we can learn about the real estate process. So we really appreciate you being with us. Let your friends know about the show and look at our archives. We've done a bunch of shows that I think are very helpful to first-time buyers. Thanks a lot, Tom. I appreciate you, man.