 Something I'm really certain in is that there are a lot of things that are uncertain. That's actually a realization I've had this year. It's like there's a lot more that I cannot control than I can. Can we please explore that? Yeah. Recording. Recording. Recording. I heard that there was like trauma and like I wasn't trying to like listen to. I'm afraid of dogs. Okay, I'm glad to start something serious. I love this weather but yeah I'm afraid of dogs. It's gotten a lot better. This weather particularly or the dog fear? I love wind. Oh, okay. Yeah, so I love being here but at the same time it's like a little bit stressful. Okay, cool. Because there's dogs everywhere. So do you, normally what we have to talk about is something that really motivates you? Something you're really certain about? Something you think is true? Any feels things for you? Something you're really confident about? Something I'm really certain in is that there are a lot of things that are uncertain. Yeah, that's actually a realization I've had this year. It's like there's a lot more that I cannot control than I can. Can we please explore that? Yeah. You're good with that? Yeah. Would you be cool hanging out? If you want to be part of it too, I've never done two people at the same time. Sure. All right, so five minute, oh, I'm Ty by the way. I'm Emma, nice to meet you. Emma, I'm Ty. I'm Katie. Nice to meet you. You're Crady. I'm Katie. Katie, Katie, Emma. All right, is that with a K? Yeah, K-A-T-Y. I am always good at guessing how people spell them. Two M's? Yes. See, I'm on it. All right. I've actually never heard of an Emma with one N, that's kind of fun. Oh, I don't know. I'd say it on the side of probability. All right, so you're most confident that or you're most certain that most things are uncertain. How did you come to that? I think just a lot of things being out of my control. Okay. So I'm a senior in high school this year and so this year is all about applying to college. Yep, I know that feeling. And so that's a big, uncertain thing because you try your hardest, you put your best self out there. Yes. But you still know no matter what, if you're like me and three of the schools on your list are Ivy League schools, it's a crap shoot at that level of school. So it's like no matter how awesome I might be, even if I am qualified enough to do it, there's too many qualified people. What do you want to major in? If you don't, am I asking you? Where do you see this? Not STEM. You don't want to be STEM. You're breaking my heart. Because yeah, I was in a math science and technology program. When I have these conversations, when I have these conversations, I tend to just be like, you know, a neutral party. I'm just listening in and it's your life and it's a five minutes conversation. It's strange to let it, but there are so few women in STEM and smart women. You seem like you're on it. You have like a really good foundational belief that you want to talk about, like most things are uncertain. That's, that is the goal, you know, in STEM. Like you want to figure out those uncertain things. You want to find a little negative uncertainty and explore it and figure it out. What doesn't make you excited about it? So I was always really good at it, but I just realized that I didn't enjoy what I was doing. And that's kind of an intrinsic thing. I couldn't tell you why I don't like it. It's just that the liberal arts appealed to me more. I'm glad you didn't say basket weaving or something like that. No, I mean, I'm still interested in like social sciences. Yeah, I worked with someone here at UK and we wrote like a sociology paper. So yeah, sociology, I haven't actually taken psychology, but I would be interested in doing that. But it's like, it's a whole mesh of things. It's like English and writing and photography and French and theater and all sorts of stuff. So what about, what is it about liberal science that makes you more or liberal studies that makes it more exciting for you that you don't get from STEM? To me, it feels more like human interaction. Okay, okay, cool. I think like with other fields, I feel like it's more isolated. But like with sociology, I mean, the whole point of what she was doing was like talking to people about them. And I think that's less lonely to me than going into STEM. Do you think that dynamic feeds into the more uncertainty idea that you had at the start? Yeah, I mean, I think that, I mean, you can't ever know. Well, okay, that's going to sound cryptic and weird. But like you can't really know that much about people. Oh, you can't know that much about people. I mean, okay, I think you can be pretty sure of things. But like if a person doesn't really know themselves 100%, it's hard for anyone else. I mean, they can be confident in something, but you have to be confident in that thing and also willing to accept that they might change. Yes. So like the things that you know about someone as they grow into the person they're going to be, those could be totally different. Do you think there's anything that we can know for 100% certainty? The sun will rise until it explodes. Oh, that's some STEM stuff. Yeah, my dad's a physics professor, so I can talk about it. I know some stuff. I don't know. I think dark matter is really interesting to me and that's about uncertainty. Like we know it's there. We've got no idea what's up with it. We just know it's like our universe couldn't exist if it wasn't there. Yeah, and it's all over the place too. It's kind of weird. Yeah. Do you think that there are certain things that we can be certain about? That's kind of where I was trying to go. Is there anything that if there is, I'm just trying to basically see like... Where's the boundary? Yeah, like you know there's more uncertainty than certainty. And I think I agree with that too. I think that's a pretty, you know, an actual sanction point. But I'm wondering where do you draw that line? Where is the line of... Okay, and past this line everything here is certain. Do you have that or is that also... Not really. Not really. But one thing that I did here at some point in this band of my life that was really interesting to me was like the only thing that we can be certain of is our own consciousness. You get a little bit existential there where you're like, you don't really know. You can't, okay, not that I believe this, but you can't know that everyone else is real, but you can know that you yourself are real. I think that's also accurate, yes. So that was really cool to me. I think that that doesn't take into account like people whose consciousness itself might be more uncertain, like people who might have any sort of like mental illness where they can't exactly trust their own perception of things. But for the most part, I think that's totally true. Okay, Katie how do you feel? About... Certainty, uncertainty. Certainty, uncertainty? Yeah. I'm from Believer in that we each take our own, you know, reality and truth to things and I don't think that there's any way that someone could fully understand one other's perspective. I think we can try as much as we can, but you know, you look around the world and within one minute there are like billions of people doing all these different things and none of them are the same, whether it's two people brushing their teeth, one could be going through their divorce, one could be having the best day of their lives and no two experiences are the same because, and that's why I like poetry, that's why I like writing because it's in a textbook I was reading, it's a text like about poetry, it defines the line between informational words or wording and then expressive wording, experience. Okay. And so I think that there is a wonderful, an absolute truth about individual truth. Oh. Like Plato's allegory of the cave. Yes. And then Tim or Brian's the things they carry. As soon as you walk out of the cave you're kind of blinded by the light. Yeah, she's so smart. I guess, no. So eloquent. It's like an absolute truth about individual truth and the fact that we, it was interesting because in his story he was talking about how he was drafted into Vietnam and there's this one chapter in particular that really strikes me, it's called The Man I Killed and he goes like the whole chapter is describing like the gory details of this person that he killed in Vietnam and the next chapter he says that in an absolute truth sense he did not kill a man but in order to explain it to an audience that had never experienced that war, had never experienced his life the only way where he could tell what was true to him because by just saying that he didn't kill anyone, that he was a coward in the war in his own words, you know, there's another truth that is never going to be met. Another truth that is never going to be met. Yeah, which is his internal truth and so by telling us that he killed someone, he is fulfilling that truth that is so often left unnoticed in our lives and so I think, and I've talked about this with my boyfriend, you know there's an absolute truth about individual truth. Okay. And I don't think there's a contradiction between the two. I think they marry together very well and I'm very certain about that and I'm very certain that we each have our own individual truth that we may never ever be able to fully express. Do you think those universal truths apply or the personal truths that we have apply to reality? I think they apply to our reality, our perception of things in our experience. Okay. I think those are very intimate to ourselves and how we, you know, see the world. Could those personal truths be wrong or not apply to reality at all? I don't think a personal truth can really be wrong. There can be a happening truth but there's also an internal truth that goes beyond what happened. Okay. I think you're, because I think your happening truth can be the same for two people experiencing that but I think your internal truth is only right for you. Is the experience. Interesting. Not the happening. Can I throw out two questions? I know we're out of time but if you're in a rush that's okay. No worries, no we're just here. Staying away from dogs. If it was personally true, you hit on a really interesting point. Personal truths versus like an absolute or a universal truth. I'm just trying to understand what you mean by personal truth so I'm going to throw an example out. If it was personally true to me that like water and gasoline were the same thing, could I put aquafina in my gas tank and drive to work? That was personally true to me. Could I be, could I do that? If that's your way of expressing it then yes. I would be able to drive to work on a bottle of aquafina. If that's how you want to think of it, yes. Really? Yeah, it's how, it's how you think of it. Yeah but would I actually be able to do that? For an absolute truth point of view? Yeah that'd be your happening truth, happening truth. No but I mean you know I guess part of your personal truth is a theoretical happening which in that sense yes I guess it could happen. So what a happening truth would override a personal truth with regards to how things actually comport with reality? I feel like a happening truth only shares half of the truth. It only shares part of it. You can't get the whole thing. Yeah both of us. Yes you should get her in the frame. A happening truth only goes through part of the thing he could he could have told them that he went through that war and he never really experienced killing anyone but he felt like because he didn't do anything that he that he was in no way of helping his troop and so he could he by saying that he didn't kill anyone that is expressing the happening truth but it doesn't express his guilt in an accurate sense that someone might understand. He hate to say I feel guilty I feel like I let people down. I understand. He has to go so far to say that he actually did kill someone. That is part of his truth that would have otherwise been left out. Okay what do you think both of you guys is a reliable way to come to like a true conclusion? If there are differing personal truths different happening truths different absolute if I just cared about a true conclusion what's a reliable way for me to reach that conclusion? I guess compiling as much truth as possible so I think that I think that Would you by truth do you mean true data or like reliable data or like maybe I so I'm more of an okay even though I don't want to go to Sam I am more of like a reasoning type person analytical type person so I would say to me at least that while I agree that the happening truth by itself or the internal truth by itself those don't give the full picture I would go with the happening truth because that's what is experienced by more than one person right so that's how I would jump to the truth you put more weight on the happening truth the truth that seems that reality seems to work on rather than the personal interpretation of that okay what's a reliable way for me to come to a conclusion if I want if I if I live in a world where I only experience personal truths and I'm trying to get as many absolute truths or happening truths in a basket to be like okay I do have these experiences but of these experience I know these are rational and are based on XYZ what's the method what's a good method for me to figure that out science yeah Katie what do you think um I she's more analytical as she pointed out I'm much more interpretive of things and so I I often lean more towards um reading like I love poetry I love um reading books different stories like things that you might not really know if they're true or not because I think that looking sorry what was the question again sorry sorry so uh say I have an issue where I got a box of tic-tacs uh no let's let's do it like this I have a coin right okay it's not a trick coin this is not a trick question people always think it's a trick question I don't know why I got it's a quarter stats I know where I take it I got it it's on the back of my hand now it's either heads or tails there's only two options and I don't know if it's heads or tails right now yeah do you know if it's heads or tails right now don't throw that out the last guy who brought that out I stomached it but just for the record all right there's the 1980 interpretation of quantum mechanics schrodinger's cat is a mockery of the Copenhagen model of quantum mechanics which basically says you're doing this wrong because you're basically super imposing perfect positions on top of each other as if you had a dead cat and a living cat you can't do that that's you can't do that that's obviously a joke so he's making fun of him schrodinger's cat is a diss track it's not a model for quantum mechanics it's one guy saying this is how silly your thing is because basically if you put a cat in a box and I used your theory that's all that's what I have a half dead half living neither cat but we both know that silly right it's like yeah that's silly I'll come up with a better model and he did but then people just like the cat idea and now people throw that out as if that was an actual model it's youtube ruining us anyway back to the point sorry we got we got I don't know do you know if it's heads or tails right now no it is one way it is one or the other so I don't know perceive it so we're in a position where I could flip a thousand coins I could do a thousand science tests and I get 5050 it's in conclusive so I still don't know if this is heads or tails but I know it has to be one of the two how could I come to a reliable conclusion and until then yeah would I don't know probably be the best answer yeah that's that's that's one of my things you have to accept that things are uncertain until they become certain yeah I actually prefer saying I don't know as an option as a the most valid answer until I have enough information to come to a conclusion what do you think if you have do you have a more reliable way to come I don't think I don't know it doesn't mean I'm done I can still look it up I can still work but I find like that's the best place to start where it comes to learning what do you think um I think as far as knowing whether it's heads or tails you know you would have to look because you don't know what's going to be I guess just what the heads and tails would you know as opposed to happening truth would mark whether you felt like you won or you lost something yeah so if there was two people at this table and one guy said well I believe it's heads and the other person said I believe it's tails and either of us looked at the coin and I'm my position is I don't know what should I be paying attention to that these two guys are telling me nor for me to see if they came to a reliable conclusion that that was heads or tails or not like what would I what would be a reliable method to come to a truth conclusion a reliable method for heads or tails because I can guess and I might be right but that's not a reliable way in my opinion it's a reliable way because the reliability is known as whenever you take a test and over over again you can get the same results you don't know if you're ever going to get the same result with something such as a 50 50 chance yeah so I mean it could be valid but I don't think it's going to be reliable okay it's interesting because in this example normally what we're talking about is like you know your inner truth even if you don't know the happening yeah but what's interesting about that example is that the happening truth is still true but you don't know your inner truth of what you think there you go yeah and I think that's totally fine to just say you don't know it yeah and that there might be an actual truth out there totally fine with me but I don't know it's a pretty good spot to just end it on at least but uh yeah I I think we're going to a lot of places can I ask one last question both of you guys um so we have ideas about personal truths and we have ideas about absolute truths uh do you think it's important to recognize what it would look like if you're wrong about all these things that we're talking about right now let's say there's just a better idea out there that we just don't don't know about oh yeah I think there's always room to improve and always room to to gain information about not just about you know just information in general but what others think of information okay you know I mean I think that draws into the line almost of individual truth because you can look at something one way and somebody can look at it different way and I think it's interesting how you know there are works or works of literature where you get to reading you get to like delve into what someone else is thinking right what they think about yeah that's always entertaining isn't it yeah and so I feel like individual truth is almost an expression of like a human side it sounds like you see the beauty behind it yeah more than yeah like using it as a reliable way to come to truth conclusions is that is that accurate okay like um like Sylvia Plass um what is it her her poem cut it's about her cutting her thumb and so she expresses that but she also delved into the idea of this um it's interesting because her perception her reality of that is so chilling she says um what a thrill I have cut my thumb again or something like that wow and so it's it goes beyond the happening to the for cutting a thumb and it draws into questioning you know what's going on what she's pulling out of it personally yeah yeah so I think with each experience we have something um different I mean someone could be relieved by not having to look not knowing the certainty and they could feel like they've won something already by not knowing if they have won or they have lost or they could be thinking that they feel like they are stuck in this um what is it called like a purgatory almost I'm not knowing whether they won or they lost sure it's all about the difference in how someone interprets it and so I think that's where individual goes into it goes into the human behavior of the human mind and how we see things so okay but I'm gonna throw a pretty extreme statement out there do it you were talking about like what if there's a better method out there it's what if there was one I'm not saying there is but what if there was yeah no I I agree with the sentiment that it's always best to be open to new answers yeah and like new um facts about things and I think part of that is like it's killing me you're not in a stem field uh it's literally everything out of me you're just like to the wind here's where my extreme statement comes in all right north korea okay okay is that extreme that's just a place geography but it's an extreme way of living you want to sit you want to sit down okay it's an extreme way of living there because they do not have access to all of the information that we do so their reality is different they think that reality is a certain way because that's all the information that they know but we know something different right because we know more so once they if they get privy to that new information their ideas and beliefs about what reality is are going to totally different right now that they have more info so I think it's always important to be accepting of new information right and what it might change and mean and at that point the absolute truth like as we go along with cultures the absolute truth they are influence of individual truth because as we learn new information the absolute truth is constantly changing our perceptions of things do you think the absolute truth though is more reliable than the personal or individual truth at least as a way of determining how reality works yeah I mean I'd say I guess if you want a more analytical um fact-based truth I guess happening truth or I'm not saying that personal truth is useless I definitely think there's some great things we can derive from it but as far as just reaching a true conclusion yeah so do you rely more on absolute truth I guess I'm gonna I'm gonna reposition the camera again I'm gonna throw something out there that she had said earlier like well she didn't actually say it but I thought of it right before she said like wait what was the question again and that was she was talking about like personal truths and when we read something that someone else wrote or expressed that's how we understand their lived experience so to me literature here it's like universal truths are like theme statements and so when we read personal truths that's how we connect with each other and that's how we sort of get to see the bigger absolute truths where you might think like I am the only person that feels like this this is my personal truth but when you read someone else's personal truth you're like wait a minute that's a more universal experience can I throw something out at you even if I were to write down a book of what it was like to be for example a black guy I can write it down in vivid detail give it to you as a black male I give it to you guys and I don't know gender wars I'm not making like universal statements here but you could read it but you're still filtering it through your personal truth your personal experience right in that case are you actually getting a reliable personal truth perspective of another person and is that ever possible man this is gonna be so bad I apologize no I'm talking to the camera um I don't think that we can ever fully get 100% to someone else's because we are always gonna have our bias to things that's just how we're predisposition as people and in humans we when we see something when we think of something we are already formulating our own opinions about things basically yeah as if we were reading your book you know we would already be formulating those opinions yeah so I think you can give out to 100% truth but others may not fully receive all of it interesting we can try that makes me feel like if anything well one it's really cool that that's the case because it makes talking to people really interesting but two it also makes me feel like I can never be a hundred percent confident with regard to ever understanding someone yeah or ever interpreting whatever they're telling me to a hundred percent it's that uncertainty to everything ours I didn't ask you this question and anytime you guys want to go it's totally cool not kicking guys out I love the conversation by the way but uh is there anything that you're a hundred percent certain about and if I had to ask you about that I know you alluded to a story your father told you but is there anything that you're a hundred percent certain about great okay so the sun will continue to rise and set until it doesn't it explodes and everything dies or an alien steals it you never know like until it and the alien comes and just is away some technologies they always have alien movies where they come down in a big spaceship with guns in their hands I'm like aliens are never going to do that if they're that smart to come over here they're just gonna like just turn up the temperature like through that for like 50 years and then cool it back down and then we'll come and it's just oh everything's free look this is a walmart there's a little bit just stuff here sorry but anything you're a hundred percent looks like you're thinking about it anything you're absolutely a hundred percent sure it's true nothing is immediately coming to mind for me okay because I was gonna say like the fact that I exist like back to what I talked about earlier yeah it's like I'm a little more existential than that I mean you could tell me you exist but I wouldn't be able to reliably know that absolutely I would be very very confident that was true like maybe 99% but I could yeah exactly okay I probably couldn't justify the 100 I could just be dreaming right now you know yeah no that's because well because that's the thing like not so what I'm not saying is like you can't okay going back to what I was talking about earlier you can't be certain that other people exist but you can be certain that you exist yes or so I'm told but like at the same time you know what you're saying like you could you could be dreaming like who knows true it's but I guess you have to exist in order to dream have you heard of the Descartes principle of I think therefore I am you've heard that well I I've definitely heard okay there was like a guy named Rene Descartes he was a mathematician and he was a philosopher and he came up with this idea of there's this thing called hard solipsism which is basically it's impossible to know anything so he's like I will defeat that and a lot of people couldn't try a lot of people couldn't defeat that but he was like so what if I can't know anything let's see if we can falsify that argument because it's always important to know but it looks like if something's wrong so he came up with the concept of I think therefore I am so like even if there was a weird alien or a demon who is basically making him have a hallucination of his existence it would have to be acting on an agent which would be him so maybe he wouldn't be Rene Descartes but he knows that whatever it is that being acted on is his identity or him at that moment and therefore if he's thinking about it he knows he exists which is kind of a cool thing so I think the only so solipsism then changed to you can't know anything except for the fact that you exist yeah I also think that you could also know that you don't know something I'm still playing with that idea a little bit right no I like that too well because like you don't do you want to share this with me okay something about you can't know that you don't okay so it's like it's sort of yeah it goes back to the idea of like you don't know the things that you don't know yeah and I can test that and you can put me an MRI you can put a gun to my head I can demonstrate that I don't know something yeah and I can be absolutely confident that I don't know it we also say that you know what you know what you know well no because what if everything's not real what is something you know that you know what you what you already know what you're already certain of so and if you know what you know that you're implying that you don't know what you don't know could you give me an example of something that you know that you know um well something that I know like right now is earlier I heard a bird chirping but right now what I know that I know was that I can't hear that bird anymore okay so we can only know as much as we know right now and we can experience other things through how others see it did you know that there's a condition where people like spontaneously start to like lose your hearing and no no not that not that I was gonna well she's just got hearing problems I was gonna say like um like there's a condition and the example I can think of it's like there's this guy and so like if you like close your eyes you can picture what a tree looks like okay but like there's a condition where like a guy would close his eyes and would not be able to picture what a tree looks like oh you cannot recall something if he's not looking at it okay which that's really I don't know what that's called or what that even is about but you might know what a tree is though I guess I was going to question what do you what does it mean to know something yeah visualize it or to know about it yeah I know of it I would say something that you know is something that you can demonstrate okay uh something that like you can if I give you a test yeah you can prove that you know it yeah like we can test it we can observe it or we can do some sort of thing where we conceptualize and then come to an understanding like uh based on this test you prove that you here's a fun thing so like I really like Katie's thing but we're gonna go to Emma's thing real quick but Katie we're gonna get back to that same thing it's the same thing about like oh okay the birthday yeah yeah birthday okay quick thought quick thought go for it we know colors right do we know colors but that's what I'm saying well that's what I'm saying if we took a test yeah and they were like here it is yeah I would say that's red and you would say that's red but we don't know that we're perceiving that the exact same way exactly different people have different colored eyes right and nope I don't think any two people have the exact same color eye yeah so who knows my green is not your green is not your green might be a little bit different we know it yeah yeah we know we know as in like you know what you know you know what you know I know what I know and we might not be able to see the same thing is there a possibility that you might be hearing the bird right now but just not paying attention to it and therefore you just oh yeah definitely I think that's uh that's called I think habitation where there's a noxious stimulus and you just like over like if you just kind of drown it out so your brain just like seeing your nose in between your vision yeah yeah your brain is automatically processes it to you where it's not even in your consciousness anymore if that's a possibility yeah can you be justified at being a hundred percent confident that you know that you're not hearing that bird right now um I like that I think it has to do with maybe with awareness percent you are aware aren't you yeah so well we tend to tune things out as we get to a routine and I think we miss a lot of things throughout our day yeah um that if we stop when we think about you know where we are you know we can draw into a lot more awareness so as a person who's susceptible to like bouts of different levels awareness can you really be justified at a hundred percent confident that you're not experiencing some stimuli that you may not be aware of so like if you tune things out how can you be confident that you're not tuning something out at any given moment yeah like I do hear birds chirping right now how do you know it's not that same bird oh you don't know if it's the same bird I don't you can't if you don't know that can you be a hundred percent confident that you know that it's not the bird no you can't okay I don't think you can't I think I am certain in the fact that I don't think that we can ever like get to where we're going truly I think that all we can do is try I like trying yeah I think the effort is definitely yeah still worth it um and I there's zero one thing that you guys take away from this it's absolutely worth that journey yeah even if the conclusion itself is an ideal it's definitely worth questioning definitely worth you know trying to never be absolutely a hundred percent because in my opinion whenever you're zero percent or a hundred percent you've closed your mind yeah and you're so like I don't need any more information I'm absolute I could I I want this to be the case as long as you're open even if it's 99.999 whatever you're at least open to something changing your mind raising or lowering your own confidence in the future and that's always great I think if we're trying I think that I think it's dangerous to try to answer a question I think it's better to always ask questions because then we're always constantly questioning what we think and we're always trying to learn something if that makes sense I think I guess another thing I'm certain in it is the ability to question okay to instead of sitting here saying I know the answer I'm good to go instead looking at something and wanting to always know more good you know being open minded to different opinions and different sayings and just all of you good Katie had a wonderful talk Emma had a wonderful talk with you listen stem might sound boring and strict and I know your dad might make it seem really nerdy like maybe we have a lot of fun with it but it's a beautiful art form and there's a bunch of stuff to be discovered still and I think you guys I think we would be at a severe loss without you guys contributing to it in some field do it as a hobby even if you don't if you don't want to do this profession and it's always an option available to you but I'm glad you guys are focusing about school I'm glad you guys are really open minded really appreciate this talk thank you for having this not a problem thank you is this for a class no this is a personal hobby I I just like talking to people about things that they strongly believe in and seeing what how they got so certain about that thing and then what it would take for them to change their mind I'm just trying to take people who are at 100% maybe see if we can bring a guy on to like maybe 99 or at least have the opportunity to be like anything I do my coolest hobby is like my one new year's resolution was like I'm going to discover more of the place I was born before I leave cool cool yeah yeah and so I'll just have conversations I think we talked about what did we talk about today so far you guys are the fourth people fourth bit um we talked about I'm trying to remember the name who's the guy who's just here the oh a lady who's from Columbia and she wanted to figure out a way to like help people and we're like okay how are you going to help people and she wants to do architecture and we're like okay so how are you helping people with architect we're just digging down into the beach and she found that what she ultimately wanted to do was since she was from Columbia she had noticed that there was an industry that was like looting the area and she wants to develop through our architecture a means of like designing a better way for industry to throw away her stuff and it was just cool that just from a five minute talk we were able to like get to something very productive then I asked her like really what else is there if you couldn't do that like why would you still do it it's just like really I want to do something that motivates me makes me happy and I was like that makes sense so yeah we we saw that lady when we came in and I was like okay they're doing an interview don't you thought she was saying look out for the dogs yeah I thought she was saying something I mean she was saying something I mean yeah you should probably let you know when you don't hear anything say what would you say I'm sorry anyway great talk guys see stay dry I think it's about yeah I brought a raincoat I don't know well apparently the weather app is 100 percent certain it's gonna rain at 9 p.m. yeah I saw that too I think I should probably pack up now too but yeah thank you guys so much I had a wonderful talk this is a highlight of the day for sure see you guys bye