 So we have noticed where the money are but Tom, is that correct? Yes. Yes. So the donor money are there in in for floor Right, we notice that so from UK from Norway So that's one issue is more or less tackle the second issue will be how to use the funding So the session today will be more on you know the nitty-gritty of using of this kind of funding We have an interesting set of panels here I will give a chance to for them to really introduce themselves each Only with two minutes So their CVs are already online. They can you know Will I Dari must be Trian Dulu very short. What do you think people need to know about you tough questions, yeah Well, I think this is a quite timely sessions after you're listening about the source of fun How we can arrange a structure the finance So that the money wherever it comes from can be you utilized for the benefit of You know blue carbon in that sense and also people that benefit from that And about you except or in addition to be a director, yeah, I mean every day or basically I'm the Percent of IDA sustainable trading initiative in Indonesia But in addition to that I'm a martial artist and runner Should be very careful careful with questions. So no physical movement Passing meeting which would you like to say something about yourself very briefly? Thank you Yeah, I think Myself is totally came from the different background Almost 35 years my background from the investment bankers. I was the director of stock exchange and finally I Detour to the right direction to be a executive director of Indonesian biodiversity foundation and I Completed my task as executive director two months ago and now they're promoting me as more Honorable job like a senior advisor You know and senior advisers mean can be interpreting in the many ways at least you have wide hair, you know And I'm really an owner to share our experience. How can we support the financing to this important? green carbon Strategic important issues Thank you, but you both earlier Actually, I also have similar background with Boston beating spend More than 25 years almost 30 years in banking and finance and capital market and It was at the capital market when I said when I had to do an IPO of a pop paper company that Triggered something in me that I left finance cold turkey and and went to To to the Living with local communities, but of course that didn't last But they essentially that was my my realization that that you cannot be either or an activist Or a banker you just have to integrate him since then I've been dedicating myself to trying to mainstreaming and I'm and I'm happy to that that At least Ojeka has a sustainable finance roadmap and that so many models are being implemented and tried now Thank you. We'll tell you about material please Okay, thank you, Ma. Sorry. Assalamu alaikum. We're not lucky over a catu very good afternoon for everybody. My name is material Zams a bit different with boo failure and pa some bearing and pa Of it. Yeah My my background is actually to completely bureaucrats since the last 26 years In Bapenas and I've been around just they stuck in the Taman Surabhati in 26 years so since in my in My experience in Bapenas. I've been working in in several units First in the regional economy and then moved to several other unit But now I ended up at the environment unit as the director for environmental affairs I have been working as well in this unit. I think since the last 16 years and but But you know blue carbon for me is a quite new aspect as well Although I have been working in 16 years for in this unit. So instead of probably giving you something you know Meaningful probably later in these discussions, but I also tried would like to learn as well from all of you because You know blue carbon is a very nice terms and we know that previously we have read And then I heard also in Australia that we also know we also study about white carbon There is also white carbon, but now we also talk a lot about blue carbons Although we tried to link a little bit with Financing's I could also share a little bit my experience in Financing's in the in the context of bureaucracy So, okay, let's let's share our experience and also let's discuss a little bit for further Thank you. Sorry. Thank you. So it's human nature to love colors. We have green blue white Bobo star, please. Thank you Pasoni, I think if you ask my friend Tom here or payatna to describe what I'm doing now I think probably he's a businessman at the moment. They also don't know how to describe what I'm doing now So I was born and grow up in Papua study forestry in Papua and start my social and environmental work in Papua also spending 11 years as a troublemaker working with Greenpeace stopping tanker palm oil tanker in Indonesia and Leading the global campaign for a forest in Indonesia in the last I in the last three years After my Greenpeace time, I start my own business called Kurobe Sinu Santara And this is kind of leave a board leave a board business with the Pinesis style Small cruise in Indonesia where we can enjoy the nature but also contribute to the nature and also to the people and in the in the same times also, I've been doing I've been working with Papuan and West Papuan government also how to Facilitate media to protect the forest in in Papua and in the same times also just two days ago together with Minister Susi and Then some celebrities we just we just lost a loan so what we call Pando loud This is a national movement to get everybody together to dealing with our ocean issue in Indonesia So that is more or less what I'm and today I will I will share with you The what you call it the idea about how tourism in in eastern Indonesia Thank you. So we we have seen that we have us again a set of interesting panelists I myself sony mumbunan. I work with by at night University of Indonesia This is a sense of a climate change with Barbara at double URI Indonesia, too As mentioned will arrange it somewhat differently There will be some slides to support some of the questions and explanation But I have a list of questions. I would love to ask and post to the panelists. Why don't we start with part material? So we we have people with skin in the game, you know using money Loose the money, but also using it into policy. It may be successful or not successful Now we we go first into the the sum of the ideas on linking, you know Planning and financing for the for blue carbon development But material could you be kind as to share some of the You think critical aspect maybe three of them that might appear when it comes to linking development planning in the context of blue carbon and Financing the investment for this kind of development Thank you, Sony. It's very intriguing questions, but I also prepared a few slides for a few slides presentations and I also would like to bring us a little bit on the perspective probably first because You know to be honest blue carbon is also is rather new for for for For policy development as well. So but since Pa Tony this afternoon has already explained a little bit What sort of? Actions that we are going to move forward on this blue blue carbon, but I would like to inform you that in this annual development plan, sorry in the next annual development plan for 2019 We already include blue carbon as part of the Runge Erka Sectors, so please if you if you So if you remember that we have a presidential regulations number 16, sorry number 61 into 2011 In that presidential regulation is already all only include just five big sectors Agriculture who waste industry forestry beat line and energy and transports with we already try to measure it continuously since 2019 to 2017 I just returned back from Bali last week and we we discussed closely with local governments Continuously every year, but we never include Blue carbon aspects as part of this discussions even at the national level and also at the regional level but for the since We tried to to put our effort now to include blue carbon as part of our Runge Erka exercise to measure at least the emission reductions that we are going to achieve through this Runge Erka targets, we know that we have all the Runge Erka target for 26 percent in 2020 and also we have Prize agreement target as well for 29 percent in 2030. So now we try to do Best in our efforts to try to include our blue carbon as part of the Runge Erka movement here We know that of course there are a lot of reasons why we include that Blue carbon initiative as part of our greenhouse gas emission reduction efforts Click we know that I think you already know on this you are all my blue carbon experts This is just I just quote from this is actually Patoni prepare this In which a blue carbon ecosystem holds. I don't know whether this is correct or wrong. You can measure it by yourself There is a source there mentioned about 17 percent of blue carbon of the world blue carbon reservoir contains about 3.4 gigaton Carbons, and I don't know how much in Indonesia because this is one of the issue actually we know that I've read Daniels papers I've read some other papers as well about the potential of carbon blue carbon in Indonesia But this is but I believe this there are still So many Figures that we need to discuss what how much actually the carbon stocks either Above or below grounds for our carbon stocks, but we know that this is huge potentially huge and this is This is a what this is your An opportunity for us to explore further how how Our efforts later to to reduce emission from this aspect Next and we know that Well, this is the era of SDG. We have to include also the blue carbon as part of our SDG and We know that the SDG number Goal 13 and goal 14. This is still related and I believe We just had I've just presented our our concept to the ministers actually how then the goal 13 Anchor several other goals Let's see the for the next slide so Basically what we would like to achieve in the future as in particular for the next RPGM and 2020 2024 The minister has already asked me to prepare what we call the low-carbon development concept as part of or as the team of the SDGs and as the backbones of our next RPGM and this is not an easy task for us, but we tried to Take this opportunity as one of the effort to mainstream our environment issue into our planning and our policy exercise And of course, this is the presentations that we've had just just a week ago with the ministers and Pabudio and I know Subu Mari Pangestu in the new climate economy That we try to define what we mean by low-carbon development. I think the ministers has already announced this team as part of the major team of our pecs midterm development plan so Still there are there are three aspects that we would like to to emphasize for this for the next low-carbon development of course the green growth is one of the objective and This low-carbon development we can say as a new development platform that we would like to use as in the next RPGM and Of course the one of the objective, of course, we want to be You know, we want to have a further growth in our economy But this is more green good rather than the growth that we have already experienced so far and of course we need to achieve our social benefits and also with Activities that contain less carbon pollution That's one of the the agenda that we would like to have in our next RPGM and and as I mentioned before we have to include this Goal 13 as the anchors of other or other several goals and of course one of the one of the You know the link one of the link between goal 13 and blue carbons I Pretend to assume this blue carbon is part of the goal number 14. Please correct me if I'm wrong So The goal number 13 will be the anchor for other several goals including the goal number 14 If I'm not mistaken, it is a life below waters here Next and of course, there are also several others questions related to the what we mean by the low-carbon development plans, but We also try to divine this is the set of policies that we would like to include Including the carbon blue carbon as well If you see there, there is a fisheries there, of course, there are forestry also part of it There's a mangrove then off as part of the forestry sectors there and coastal as well and also When we this is this is the the the beauty of the The concepts that we would like to use in the next development planning process We would like to include the carrying capacity aspect as part of our planning process and Blue carbon with we try to include that as part of carrying capacity carrying capacity considerations in the past we never use carrying capacity for our decision-making process but now we try to do this exercise and At the end of the day the Outcome indicators that we would like to see is the is the two aspect that on the bottom right corner is the emission intensity and also the Emission reductions we know that in our NDC we all we only include Emission reductions But since we have an agenda as well to try to have a strong linkage between emission reductions and Economy and even social aspects so we would like to use emission intensity as well as part of our Outcome indicators for the next development plan This is with this is the effort that we try to link between the economic aspects with our Emission reductions. We know that China has already used this indicator emission intensity But Indonesia still used the just emission reductions and of course, this is blue carbon is part of this and We and of course later we need to dig more upon about the methodology and so on I know that there are still a lot of aspect that we need to consider and Next This is a very complicated diagram I think I think we'll just skip it. Yeah, we'll skip it. Okay. This is just to show you. This is this is just to show you How complicated problems that we have Try to link and Try not to work in silo We always work in silo If you if you if you look at if you are talking about forest many just talk about forest We are talk about blue carbon. I'm afraid that we are going to just talk about blue carbon, but we never We we need to consider about these inter linkages with other aspects as well Of course fishery or blue man blue carbon will relate to economy Of course blue carbon will relate to population as well later or in vice versa There is a feedback relationships among several others related parameters with blue carbon What we would like to exercise later including financing policies is the Actually the policies that we try to induce in this all related Sectors so for examples, we know that we have a lot of policies here in economy We have also said many other policies as well in land use But what we would like to have is actually an integrated policy Exercise that we that we would that we could see what sort of implications of those policies in our carrying capacity in the Futures and then measures how much the emission intensity and how much the emission reductions that we could Use that we could get from our policy exercise Sorry, this is a little bit long, but yeah and Of course at the at the end of the day, this is related to this topic All these policies will link to the green investment strategy next right When we talk about investment strategy, you know, this is the forum that we would like to discuss and we know that there are a lot of potential fundings not only from our national or regional budget, but also There's a private sectors philanthropic bilateral corporations multilateral corporations and even right now there are there are Many creative financing that we that we have already created. There is a bonds. There is a municipal green bonds There is a now a sharia bond also Sorry, not sharia. Yeah, sharia bond shukuk bonds shukuk green shukuk. Sorry green shukuk green shukuk also has been released and There are several others as well that we that we need to explore more for there And I think we need to not only stuck with the just grant funding or What you call it the grant funding from the partners or from the state budget? I think we need later to be more creative There is my ministers keep always saying about blended finance. I think Buvalia later will be talking more on branded finance I have been asking by by the ministers to prepare the concept of blended finance with Patoni in ICCTF because ICCTF is also part one of the innovative Finances that we have already created. Thanks for Patom that as a supporting Of the ICCTF since the since it is established. It is it was established and Also, of course, there are also other fundings like for example like the What you call it the PPP yeah now The ministers keep saying about KPBU. I don't know what they what does it mean in English KPBU? It's like a cooperation between the state-owned enterprise and the government and the business So there are still a lot of opportunities There are still a lot of source of funding that we can we can Tackle that we can get to finance this Blue carbon and I think this is the time for us to share our experience Surupulang That's not me has nothing to do with me Let's see The time is up I think for me Okay, yeah, this is the end of my slides, but at least I would like to show you that In short that the now blue carbon has been tried to be included as part of our Yeah Thank you very much Okay, thank you very much Thank you for sharing the linkage between planning and especially the Thank you. We'll be talking about learning what we learn lesson learned. So this is for future Event but thank you for linking the Carbon and then the efficiency and it appears that some ideas on blue carbons are being also incorporated and it Has been incorporated under Rangirka and the strategic environmental assessment and also for linking it to investment. So Sort of laying the basis for for the second panelist Let us move to Ibu Felia. Well, yeah I Made has mentioned a bit about blended finance and in these days Like almost, you know people are talking about blended finance could you share based on your experience? What is so blended in in this kind of discussion and whether it can be replicated for the blue carbon context? Yes, okay First slide please But I need to give you a bit of a precursor. I know this is the the blue carbon Summit and I'm here asked to talk about the end-green fund which has to do more with the land use but that we see Something of this model can be replicated can be duplicated for a blue carbon because it's really Conceptually just have to look at the concept of the blended finance, but before I we talk about that. There's one fundamental understanding that we need to understand that We talk about finance. This is really about Linking it to market essentially we are trying to also Correct the market forces and you know It seems to me A lot of good work have been placed by governments international NGOs NGOs communities, however There needs to be You know an integration with market forces. I think through to this blended finance This is a way of trying to linking it as I said jokingly earlier that I've been Trying to for the past 10 20 years to try to mainstream this And and it did take a long time Just to talk a little bit about the market players The corporates that can make a real big difference You know that there are there the I would say There's been a Positive shift in the market for the first generation, you know, it's a lot of it. There's CSR CSR is a charity it really While it's it's important it doesn't Assist the the climate change discussion so we moved on the second generation you hear a lot about the environment environmental and risk assessment, right I Would say that's the second generation and and of course bankers are not activists scientists But already we are we were trying to integrate at least The environmental and risk assessment criteria into the enterprise risk management framework of financial institutions Yeah, that's a good start, but when you implement it, it's just probably a bit of a checklist right so now As you see, we know that 2020 we're not nobody's gonna meet 2020 Right. So what is it now? It's there's a further Positive shift, which is the climate risk and strategy now is has to be incorporated within the Planning strategic panel of corporations. So no longer a checklist. No longer. I mean, it's it's moving in that direction because you see some of the traditional large institutional investors like the black rocks and you know It's starting to get serious and and you know if the leadership is paying attention Temasek a lot of sovereign wealth funds Also starting to look into the sustainability model So We we ask here. We need to continue to push this process, but we really need to understand the market Right. We cannot work in isolation. There's a lot of talk. I tell you what at the state bank Bangda got in the shower where I spent a good 10 years of my life. I spoke to just about every International NGOs institutions who had grant funding to push the whole sustainability principles and Not a single one of them We could close a deal If the transaction cost was just way too high For me to allocate resources it's simply because It's this way or no way There's no Discussion. It's just so in practical terms. It was so rigid plus There's a foreign currency exposure Yeah, so so that we need to also us here need to understand a lot of these Risk factors. It's not for lack of wanting or the good intentions But you know, we're not addressing the issues first. We need to understand the market as well Yeah, it's it's it's so so I thought I'd give that as a as a precursor So it's a lot of work to be done there and you know the the uni leavers. There's the consumer forum and there's a lot of Corporate groups who are forming who are in discussion with us And and this is a positive dynamic. What what is important is that I hope that National governments national strategies can capture these discussions as well But now let's get down to the the details, you know, the devil is in the details. So And green fund has just been established last year and it's still new it's It's it's a funding Thanks to the Norwegian government Provided us seed money and as well as uni lever and we're looking to so this is the the public and private funding scheme where It's it's it's government funding plus private sector trying to find a new model, right? And why is it blended? It's because the conventional financial sector Doesn't understand how to mitigate the risk. Therefore, there's very little appetite To to absorb those risks. Therefore, that's why the financing is still very little. So that's why there is a portion It's not de-risking but really absorbing the some of the commercial risk that cannot be Absorbed by the conventional financial sector. So so this is the blended part So it's really sharing the risk. So basically the public fund is Taking up a portion of the risk. So that's the the basic principle of blended finance. Okay so we believe that in three principles and I think fitran can elaborated that is It has to be productive the work. It has to be it's there's an environmental return and There is the social inclusion part. That's that's an absolute must if you don't involve the stakeholders around the area It will not be sustainable This is the reality. So what we're trying to do is exactly that we are trying to finance the gap the gap where the Conventional financial sector Cannot absorb next Yeah, so these are the targets we have the economic returns we have the environmental returns and we have the social inclusion returns So and green basically we want to catalyze two billion dollar Value of a project within five years Taking up only 20 to 25 percent So we want to raise about four hundred million in order to catalyze a two billion dollar project in Brazil the Congo basin and Indonesia the you know the last remaining lungs of the planet Yeah environment return is obviously how many hectares of forest conserved Some five million hectares that's kind of like the corridor And then of course the social inclusion We just want to make sure that there's jobs created smallholder suppliers Finance so it is also linked to smallholder, which is very key Because you know we want to correct some of the the the ills of the market forces We want to reduce the the gap. We want to improve the junior ratio, etc. So this is our our modeling next So I don't need to get into details, but this is the pricing for the public and private Next and then there was a question here on on the jurisdictional We do yeah, we do have a jurisdictional approach I think I don't need to elaborate on that but you can translate that into the You know ocean the sea and the water rights or what have you you can decide The jurisdictional eligibility that you want. It's it's so it's not open-ended It's not ideal, but it's a corridor. It's a corridor by which we have to be guided by and this also helps the financial sector to Have a framework by which they can assess the risk So your restriction is an administrative definition or even more than well in in our case we look at Administration it's good to have commitment from the local government Right, and of course there are you know boundary issues that are but that all of that can be and be discussed on the ground But these serve as a corridor Thank you very much you will failure Speaking of local jurisdictional approach and process Pabustar, would you please share your case? In Papua is it both Papua and West Papua for a very specific kind of business so it's high end Sustainable tourism Okay, thank you Sonya standing because it's too cold. Yeah, so while preparing my My presentation, this is me I'm diver I'm a party certified diver So what I would like to share with you is the what I'm doing in the other part of my life If which is starting to create a solution and then basically three years ago I start my company called Corabesi Nusantara Indonesia and this is like ecotourism Next basically what I'm doing is the This is more or less the marine tourism money that is floating around Yeah, it's a lot of money you can see and you can count so It's providing What you call it a lot of a lot of Income for local community but also but also in the same time also trying to preserve the nature and Using this is the blue one. Yeah blue carbon. That's what you're talking about 70% of our our nation is water and then Next and we operate a ship which is this year we get the award in the in Singapore as a live about of the year, which is we trying to provide Sustainability in our operation in Indonesia, this is a hundred my operation is a hundred percent Indonesia Which is myself and my crew and all a product that we use in in our operation is all Indonesian of course some part of it are made in China the boats and Next so our concept is the of course social enterprise and then We this year this year we we at least week We share our profit at the minimum like 500 500 millions that we contribute in kind to support the NGO like conservation International WWF TNC to do a coral reef monitoring around Raja Ampat and then the core value also that we we have of course that the Every every single trip that we do we always stop in the local community at least local people see that there is people from Outside coming to their place to appreciate what they've been preserved So because many live abroad also in Indonesia, you know, they just going around come for diving and not stopping in many in many places Next Just have an imagination. This is a boat. It goes to one. Yeah other place and they stay you you will let Later So I will show you short video about the what what what we are doing So we our boat is dedicated for Eastern Indonesia only ABC can take up to 12 guests for liverboard experience The use of local product appreciate in the nation artisan brand and creating interactions between guests and local community In preserving the nature we travel in a small group to reduce threat in the environment But obviously also collaborate with the Tarapapura Foundation and committed to support every conservation activities Eco-solution was applied to reduce marine debris and Beach cleanup is always in our guest menu So that is more or less what I'm doing next slide, please so You know This is of course. This is a high risk investment Building a boat is part of my dream like 20 years ago when I'm still study in Papua because to reaching out local community in Papua That's something we need something to what you call it to go there The original idea of the boat that I have that time is the cargo boat To bring the local community product to the collection center and sending that to the market But because Greenpeace called me in to come to Jakarta The dream is somehow stay there and then when I'm coming back again This is something that I need to I need to do then I start to look at what is the possibly I can do We start to making money Then the tourism is the tourism is boom and starting to okay Let's start with the liver board while making money then start to invest again with local community So in the during the period to in the last two years We start to connect the local community in many places. That's something that we will we will start to Connecting them and starting with the product this year. Also, we will start our project in Banda Sea to work with the spices plantation farmers to collect their spices and sending it to the to the market in Sorong also We have a small project with our boat, which is we collecting wild boar Yeah So there is a restaurant in Jakarta core up in smoke where they sell the wild boar because the wild boar is eating What you call they eating Leatherback turtle eggs. Yeah, and then some NGO saying, you know What the benefit from for us? So we are coming there Okay, let's let's starting to collect your wild boar and I start to connect with my friend in Jakarta Who has the restaurant and then we make it a sausage the wild boar sausage So community in the same time they get the profit They get the benefit and in the same time also they protect the turtle eggs Leatherback turtle eggs Operation like us in Indonesia. There is a hundreds of hundreds of Boat like us, but only 12 is Indonesian owned boat One of them is my friend is sitting just in the back that part of Papua and then one is only 12 Boat in Indonesia is owned by Indonesian other than that is the foreign investment So this is still big opportunity for Indonesian to grow this business So again now we're talking about blended finance. You can finance this you can finance that don't forget That your money is not stuck in the administration. Give it to us. We will we will implement that on the ground. Thank you Thank you. That was like a call to action Okay, one simple question just yes or no. Have you accessed the end green fund? I just meet but failure last month proposal will follow soon. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you And then my for my next guest for Bandar trip is Tom. So means the discussion about proposal will happening on the boat Thank you. Thank you. That's very encouraging now. We we move away a bit from from marine going back to land-based Contacts and fitri and will share or would you please share, you know sustainable trade commodities and some of the very concrete Examples would really appreciate if they are coming also from a local context, please. I Also want to stand up because I'm so cold. I Think in fact in Europe now it's warmer than in Indonesia So I cannot compete with Booster of course because you have the boat that I don't Will see we'll see I think we're gonna connect in in spices here. Hopefully so What we are trying to do now is to give you some example of what we have been doing Not on the land base, but basically on aquaculture and mangroves so it's a blue carbon but Prior to explaining anything, I think I have seen Some of our partners around but Mulyadi is of course we used to work together in West Kalimantan on mangrove concessions Getting improved productivity as well as concession. So you can ask iron protection You can ask him further about how to balance the challenging business of blue carbon So just to give you example, I mean we are operating as foundation as a legal status But our approach mostly is like impact investment. So we invest with the private sector 40% from our money 60% from the private sector What we want to get as a return is not money or not necessarily directly money But mostly impacts and then we also then created more and more Thanks to the enlightening coming from a buvelia and others this type of blended finance So the end green fund to some extent was also born from IDH work and partners and then now also we are doing what we call with land degradation authority fund and Last time in Oslo, there was also discussions and also launching of small holders fun with rubber bang. I will stop here It will be like three times. So you have to wait another two Hopefully it's only one time But just to give you a model that we Okay, two times Just take it as a trade-off of having affordable place. Yeah, is it okay to continue So when it comes to blended finance or even before that we need to understand I mean part made good mentions about public private partnership. So basically what we are trying to Push or promote is the kind of model that can get both private sector and the public money or the public support to be combined together so We of course need to understand what whenever wherever You know that we want to provide support you have to we need to understand the supply change. That's that's the most important thing Of course when it comes to supply change those that are mostly in need of support are farmers or philagers We start also as mentions But of course you can't support each individual philagers or farmers So you need also to see what sort of hub what sort of aggregations that you want to support so that's why it is important to Get engaged with aggregators and support aggregators. It can be local cooperatives. It can be Usahad Daedah or boom desk. It can be local companies and so forth But at one point you also need to link this type of aggregators to the off-takers The buyers of those commodities and of course the financiers not only the like of and green fund But also local banks and different financing institution. I think but Simbiling also will explain about it just to give you some example. I mean we have already Invested quite a lot in in different commodities, but when it comes to blue carbon, we have some experience in aquaculture and also in mangrove. So in aquaculture for instance, this is just one example in Ache or from Ache so since 2015 2016 We have identified one particular hub or aggregator in this case it is called Ache aquaculture cooperative they have been doing good Works especially in the development of shrimp, but of course the productivity was so low They couldn't get access to the market. They couldn't get access to finance. So The thing is we now tried. I mean we have been Investing in terms of connecting them to the market thanks to eco hub So if you go to Singapore to send Rijis to different cafes and restaurants for season and whatnot, you can find aquaculture products coming from Ache with the stem of ASC aquaculture stewardship console coming from Ache and also with the help of Rabobang. They provided a small scale macro-coded scheme in which the money then is converted for feedstock, for support, for instance for cooperatives so that the farmers can improve their productivity, hatchery and the like. So this is type of you know structuring and arranging the finance coming from different areas coming from donors coming from the finance institutions in which then it can be linked or disbursed to farmers through the cooperatives. Another case, I think this is Just recently that we can say is quite successful. It is from West Kalimantan Unfortunately, not from Pak Moliadi Tantra concession. This is from the village forest, the village forest of 76,000 hectares of village forest, one of the largest in Indonesia. It is situated in Kubutaya. In the beginning, of course, there was big question coming from the government if local communities are handed over a legal status to manage the forest whether the result would be successfully leading to protection or conservation or whether it will be leading to further destruction or deforestation. So the Ache Foundation, helped by the UK government, helped this community to get the legal certifications of village forest. But then the question after that what would be the sustainability or the continuous guarantee of village forest people to maintain the area. So then we work together with the local organization called Sampan to map, to identify different commodities. Not only they are potential, but more importantly that have the ability to be improved, linked to the market and also linked to the financier. So we map all the commodities available in the areas mostly, of course, aquaculture, shrimp, fish, but also honey as well as timber, coconut, coffee and many others. This is just to give you an example. After two years of investment or co-investment in this area, the local communities got some sort of revenue just over seven months, $0.7 billion for honey. This is linked also to some brands in Jakarta and also international. And also for coconut charcoal, they got 1.5 billion rupiah only in six months. So with that kind of portfolio of revenue, so they got also from different commodities, we then check whether the forests that are supposedly to be protected, whether it is still protected. So we monitor, we draw an assessment on the ground. Then we realize and we get some sort of a good information that at the end of last year, in fact, there has been some improvement. So almost 5,000 hectares of forest, not only, you know, the existing protected, but this is additional forest cover as a result protected or recovered. So I think this is quite crucial. So mangrove for instance is 2,800 and pitland also 1,700. So that's an important thing to address. But I want to just focus on this. I think Ibu Felia has mentioned about the need to promote and the understanding between the public and also the private sector. And this understanding cannot be done if we cannot, you know, bridge the gap in terms of understanding the risk when it comes to investment in blue carbon or in the aquaculture and mangrove for instance. It is so crucial for the banks, for instance, to get some help by NGOs, the donors and also scientists and many others, how to be able to mitigate this kind of risk. I think I will stop there. One of the things that I would love to see many entrepreneurs coming from Indonesia to be able also to support these type of activities is that the key questions whether we can then get the OJK as well as get local financial institution to come to areas like what Bustar did and also share this kind of knowledge. I think OJK is quite open now and also different financial institution. So we have the opportunity. Thank you. Thank you for mentioning OJK and Ibu Felia has mentioned also about the roadmap for sustainable financing. I think the case of Bustar sort of, I think cases that we need to populate that kind of roadmap. We have one last speaker, Daniel, if you are okay with it. Patsan Biring has, you know, wealth of experience from the biodiversity side, the banking side. Now learning from coastal project, I think it's a mangrove restoration. What would you share with us on the possibility of financing blue carbon development? Thank you, Sony. Bye bye, Bustarian. It is very late afternoon already. So I tried to make it clearly and shortly and briefly. Hopefully you understand. I'm just focusing in our experience in private financing initiative specifically on community-based coastal carbon corridor initiative we call it. So although Kahati have many activities, but on this afternoon, I just like to focusing it on carbon initiative that we have been doing and how the financing that we've been raised that we could share together with the with the participant here that we can hope that it's inspire all of us that we may replicate in other places. We've been doing with many other partners, especially Yagasu. I just take two examples that we've been doing, one in northern corridor, Java of coastal corridors in northern Java and Madura. And we, whatever we do, we have to support by scientific evidence. So we make sure that our intervention on the right and appropriate target. If you look it, I will show you the supported data of the software. That the data shows that the remaining intake of mangrove in northern Java and Madura is only 11.12 percent. And there we have restored about 12,000 hectares. It's 4.4 percent and the old mangrove is only 7 to 70 percent. So the really alarming here, almost 90 percent are being degraded. That is really what we have been facing now. That is really a wake up call to all of us. And how we financing that one, how we supported that one. This is just to show you the data. This is to support the data, in fact, how we do that one. And let me touch a bit, what is the kehati, how we do that one. As I told you, kehati is a conservation transplant being established more than almost 25 years now. This is the scheme that kehati experiences of managing several types of funds. We have our endowment fund. So when we said we need to establish sustainable fund, the institution also has to have some security. We have our sustainability itself because we have our endowment fund to support our sustainability. And we also get being mandated by bilateral donors. Thanks to Pat Tom here. We have a lot of projects being done with Pat Tom. One of the projects is very strategic. We have been doing like S.F.L.K. Maybe we are quite familiar with that one. And we have others and we have multilateral donors. And also we've been still managing at the point of time depth for nature swap that we call it Tropical Forest Conservation Act, which, Yatna, they are one of the creators. Then now we're still doing that one by one. And we have also the NS for Kalimantan. We started from Sumatera. And we also has explained on the mobilizing crowd fund through the small chains in the Alphamart that we can share after with you and private sectors. And also we recently meant trust being mandated to manage Blue Abba Defund through our colleague like CI, TNC, WWF. That's being special designed to support sustainability funding for Birdhead Seascap, a marine protected area in Papua, Western Papua. That's being designed specifically as a endowment fund to ensure that the funding is sustainable for that area. It's about 40 million dollars. It will failure one of the oversight committee on that fund. And of course, philanthropic private institution. But out of this, I'd like to share you the private sectors initiative out of this experience. So I'm going to focusing on the private sector side itself. Kahati been experienced for more than 25 years. We have 1000 grantees all over Indonesia. We've been experiencing about 1200 programs. And at we speak today, we've been managed about 200 million dollars fund at our portfolio. So Kahati, we've been always in facilitating link it between government, community and private sectors. Because we believe that we have to work together to to work on the conservation activity we cannot do by ourselves. This is the small part that I like to share with you that we being restored 200 degree mangrove in Jakarta, in Ramayu, Brabus and Java. If you have time, you should see our Brabus mangrove centers. It's one of the community very proud of. And one of the our community partners there being awarded Kalpataru last year through SMA. This is the place that we've been doing on the mangroves. Most part of Indonesia. This is just to show you what we're doing. Then we are plan to restore the rest of that 90 percent that degraded already. This is how the calculation, the potential carbon credit if it is still on the market because we have also challenging now that the carbon credit is being on the, I do not know, still there's a new, what do you call it, Alhaka letter that they said has to be postponed, it has to be suspended. We cannot use the mechanism of carbon credit anymore. I like to share our experience on mobilizing private sectors from to restore the mangrove in what we call it like blue carbon as we, this is a topic been given today. We experience on work together with government and bank who are a sales agent when never government raising fund through the issuing of government bond. On this particularly, I like to share you our experience with the issuing of the government retail bond. You are aware that when government needs some funding, they can have to make different kind of mechanism, one maybe from the loans overseas and one from the domestic loans. Domestic loans also several types, like maybe also like Sharia fund and others. On this particular thing, we work together on retail bond that targeted to individuals, investors in Indonesia. In order for government to reach out all the targeted investors, they have to work together with the selling agent, what they call it, the qualified and agent like bank or securities company who are being licensed to do that one. So we work together with them, then the fee that the bankers are getting from the services that they provide to sell that bond, 50% of them they donated to support the mangrove on that project. So by then the investor feel more beyond the return of money itself, but also they think they feel also that they contribute to protect the coastal area and not the government money, but the government supporting the idea. So we have 20 bankers and many other securities company. When they act like a selling agent, they contribute 50% of their own fee to protect this project. This is how we doing. This is some of our activity to do that, but from the retail bonds. This is the calculation we have to present to the bankers and the government need evidence that whatever we intervene, there's an impact of that activities, both environment, social and economical benefit. We have to show that evidence because bankers are very rational people like Ibuphelia said, they need to ensure these risk factors have to be minimized. So we have to show that what's their benefit. This is the selling agent that we work together. I don't want to have to go through this one because you guys know it's better than mangrove and observing carbon more than other tree. This is how we presenting the impact of our activities. This is the last thing that I'd like to share with you. Kahati also initiating when I was in stock exchange, we creating what we call it green index. We consider 25 best company in stock exchange. We use it as a reference for green investment. And our investment always 10 to 15% outperformed compared to any other index. So from this investment index, we have two, three fund managers who creating like unit trust. From the unit trust also they have their own management fee that they share with us. With this fee, we also contribute to our activity like this blue carbon that you call it like mangrove things. I think that's to give you some idea then I can elaborate more if you need to discuss how we can do in other things. Thank you. Thank you very much for submitting. Thank you also for sharing you information on very interesting possibility, you know, the service fee for bonds and certain percentage supporting mangrove. Only one question, concise. Sure. This is my question for Ibu Velia, Mas Fitrian and then Pasambiring also. There's such thing as greenwashing in this financing system, right? And how do you try to effectively avoid that from happening? And at the same time also provide an attractive economic returns. Please can I have this other question for Busta? Thank you very much. Greenwashing is registered. Second question please. Daniel, then Tessa? Yes, then we have three because. Thank you very much. This is a very interesting session. I enjoy it very much. Although it's only part of it. My question goes to Pa Fitrian. I've been following IDH for some time, quietly, and at my work and specifically on blue carbon, financing blue carbon. If you give example from Ache, what kind of criteria you implement on that? Because when you're talking about aquaculture, quote, unquote, this is the enemy of blue carbon to be removed from the ground. But it seems like quite interesting thing to think about it and I'd love to hear more about it. Thanks. Thank you. One question please. My name is Tessa from WRI Indonesia. Thank you very much for the presentation. This is actually the best question in the last. I would just like to ask if you had to sell yourself or sell the green financing, just one pitch, which would you start? Where would you start to pitch it? Thank you for each of them. Please. Thank you. Fitrian is very good at pitchings, I know. So we have three questions. Thank you very much. I think each panel can respond to this question because it seems to be applying to start from the very far. Well, when I start this initiative, I don't know whatever you want to call it, I mean green or red or yellow carbon or whatever, but at least we contribute something to environment, to protect the environment. And this is something that is very important for me. I just want to share my experience when I start this project. I mean I've been talking with many people, including donor friends, like, you know, I will building a boat to going around Papua, talking with the local community and start doing eco-tourism. No one believes this is something can be success, trust me. I tell to many people, because, you know, I spend all of my salary when I'm still working with my organization to build this one and there is no any single when I'm trying to sell this idea. There is no any single, they're saying, they're just saying this is great idea but nothing to follow up. So when the boat is finished and everybody saying, wow, you really made it. And then now we, I mean I mentioned earlier, at least this year we share like 500 million rupiah, four coral reef monitoring communities and the kind of things. So this is some kind of in kind that what you call it. So when we're talking about where we would like to pitch, I think something where, for me, we should put my effort more on where the last remaining resources still left. Because that's something that we still have a hope. Yeah, I tried to response the last questions because the first and two actually is not dedicated for me. Related to the, what should we do to prepare the project? I think the first thing first, we have to have scientific assessment first for our program or projects proposed for this blue carbon. Why it is important? Because we just not talk about financing. We just not talk about money but we need also to consider about the substance itself, about the substance, about the contents of the blue carbon and so on. So that's the first thing first. And of course the second one, we just cannot rely upon the government financing. We know we have a limited capacity. We have to have a very creative imaginations. How to deal with the several or I think now a sum of now emerging innovative of creative financing that has been established. I think there are also other examples here that probably we can take as a case for the next financing for the blue carbon. I think there are two aspects that we need to consider for that. Thank you for both questions. First about the greenwashing. Well, you know, maybe it's the blended finance space now. It's really at the stage of looking for a model that is more of public interest and commercial interest. So I'm not sure where that greenwashing is. Perhaps in that first generation that I mentioned to you, the CSRs, a lot of ribbon cutting, that was a lot of greenwashing I must say. I mean, you can always question that, but there are also a lot of good CSR programs. Now on the second question, I will state the conclusion first and explain a little bit that the social and environmental returns make economic sense, period. Because what you want to do is a going concern of business that is sustainable, that lasts. There's already been quite a lot of study of the Fortune 500 companies that those companies who have seriously implemented a lot of those ESG risks into the strategy is really doing better today and sustainably and less price volatility in the stock market. There's been quite a few studies on that one. So we are today. The opportunity now is we have the consumer market that is more environmentally aware. And there's a push from the consumer market for sustainability. That's why the whole traceability initiatives are in place. So you see a shift. I mentioned to you from CSR to ESG. Now it's the climate risk incorporated. That is all aligned with also the consuming society, the consumer, not just the producers. There is that space. But of course, in certain countries, there's a lot of push from government and well-intended NGOs. There's these dynamics that is happening right now. So why it's blended? Because we are still in the same economic paradigm. We haven't changed the economic paradigm that has broken down. The 1%, whatever, that's a whole separate discussion. That's why the shift is occurring and the economic paradigm is somewhat shifting. And it's understandably the excess of liquidity in the market has been slashed by the 2008 crisis because those are just virtual wealth creation with no basis. That's it. That's why blended for the moment, it's concessional capital provided by the public sector and the commercial capital provided by the market. So, you know, it's allocating of risk and hopefully the next generation will be fully commercial. I think next question we will be discussing absorbing risk and allocating. As a meeting on pitching, what would you like to... There's two questions that I need to respond to. One about pitching, one about greenwashing. Let me start with pitching first. I think the era of donation is over. If you have to sell something, you have to sell the investment. In Kehati itself, we've been promoting at least every single cent that we have raised. We have to measure at least six categories of the impact. What's the economic rate of return? What's the benefit for the gender, for the environment, for social? So, if you like to raise funds, forget the old-fashioned way that you ask the charity. I think that's been being over because why the sponsor, you may call it the partners or the donors, they have to be accountable also to their stakeholders. They have to be able to accountable and proudly report that their investment whatever sense they invest like what we raise, raising 40 million for Blue Abadi, they have to be able to demonstrate that 40 million, at least economic rate of return, 10% in US dollar terms. Not necessarily like what Fetian said, the money itself for themselves, but we have to demonstrate the benefit of the investment. Then they get accountable. That is my pitch. And about greenwashing, I think it's very complicated, simple question but very difficult answer. Personally, like Ibu Feria said, I think time will tell, people have to change. But if you ask me the question, if people like to support something with good faith, whether they sincerely or not sincerely, I do not know, but I think it's better they donate or support something than they do nothing. But time will improve the attitude toward better and then to go to like a mainstream, like what Ibu Feria said, because the pressure of the community, pressure of the consumers, pressure of the legal framework itself. Because people have to follow the SDG, whatever the framework, they have to follow otherwise they cannot survive. So I think the greenwashing era will be over very soon too. Hopefully short. On criteria, it's three letter words for PPI. That's our jargon. As long as we can improve productivity while also protecting the remaining, if not improve protections of forest or pitland or mangrove, and then of course inclusions of villages, small-holder communities. So if these three cannot be achieved, then of course we will be the one that first criticizes the project. So that's our understanding. We will discuss that later. I already also share via WhatsApp to Pai Daniel regarding all the things, social media. On greenwashing, I think straight forward as well, with the public involvement, be it donor, be it government, and then with the private sector involvement through the investors as well as the stock exchange, as well as the CSO involved. I think there's a tendency to reduce the risk of greenwashing because these three elements would be the one that assuring the transparency and the credibility of that particular investment. Which I share what Pa Sambirina also Ibu Felia mentioned. On the pitch, straight forward, Teza, my lovely friend. If you invest on this, you got multiple returns. The first return, of course, no more profit. So the profit is not going to be reduced. Yeah, a bit probably, but not much. And then you got social security because you invest getting social inclusions. But of course you also get long-term supply if you invest in these commodities. And I think many brands and buyers are looking for that. And of course you also reduce your reputation at risk. Corporate partners are getting these kind of things. I mean, a bit also greenwashing to that, but this is like positive greenwashing. And last but not least is the image. I mean, I think the CEOs, the donors, NGOs, leaders, politicians would like to be on the stage. If you invest in this, I'll make sure you will be on the stage. Thank you. So I'm off the stage. Thank you very much for the presenters. Thank you Pa Sambirina, Ibu Felia, Pa Madril. Let's take a photo first. Pa Bustar, Pa Petrian.