 Welcome. Happy Juneteenth, y'all. I want to welcome you to our session with a really awesome, amazing writer, Hilary Bettis. But I do want to acknowledge again, like I did for the last couple of weeks, that Black Lives Matter, that we all still continue to fight for justice for not only Black Lives, but anyone who is suffering injustice in this country right now. I think it's really important to, and maybe one of the things that may come up in the conversations with Hilary, because one of the things that I really appreciated about Hilary's writing is that she really took on writing a play that examined anti-Blackness in Latinidad. And part of who we are as a community because is that we should be as Latinx people, as a Latinx affinity space. We should be pro-Black, pro-Indígena, pro-worker, pro-mujer, pro-lesbian, gay, bi, trans, queer, and pro-migrant, because we hold all of these identities. And I think it's what makes us stronger is our unity against shared oppressions. And it should be central in our lives and in our vision for change. And I hope that this is like a really great opportunity for all of us to really look at our own history and examine not only Blackness, but our Indigenous origins, colonialism, and how Whiteness has really kind of affected how we sometimes let it allow it to get in our own way in terms of creating our own work. And so here is like an opportunity to talk about that. And I hope you can all make it for next week's session with Coleman Domingo, who you may know as an actor, but he's also a playwright and whom I've known for many years. And also next week is my birthday, so you better show up. It's cancer season, yo. Yeah, my birthday is this weekend actually. What? Wait, Saturday or Sunday? Sunday, that's when you first. So you're like on the cusp? I'm on the cusp. That's awesome. I knew you were cool. All right, so without further ado, I've talked too much. I want to welcome Hilary Bettis. She is also right for television. She can talk a little bit about that. She had a show that was going to premiere off-Broadway called 72 Miles to Go, and that of course got canceled like everything else. I worked with her at the, what was that called? Salt Lake Acting Company, New Play Festival on Queen of Basil, which was her bilingual adaptation of Miss Julie set in Miami and with a multi-racial cast. It was really awesome. And she's also written a play called Ghosts of Lote Bravo, which was published in American Theater Magazine. And I'm really happy to have her here. Hilary, what's on your mind? What's going on? Oh, and Hilary is a new mom. So congratulations to Hilary. Yeah, and I just had a baby a month ago. He's actually here screaming in the next room right now. Right. You still have the, you still have the glow. So let's, I'm really happy for you and many blessings to you and your new family. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, you know, I, I think just sort of wanted to like have a really organic conversation with all of you guys around like things that I'm personally grappling with, which always affects my work and my process and sort of the bigger things in our landscape right now that I, you know, I think, especially being in like the Latinx community, we sort of straddle both sides of the conversation that's happening right now and like what, what does that mean for all of us? And so just like a little bit about like my backgrounds, where I come from, like how I approach work. So I grew up, my second generation, my mom is kind of my dad's white, which is a whole other complicated messy thing. But I grew up in like really rural parts of the country, including like rural Minnesota, an hour outside the Twin Cities. And so like this particular case with George Floyd, like I went, I went to high school with a lot of people that have very similar mentality to the police officers. And so like the, the, you know, my family was always like very much the outsider family. And, and so anyway, school was terrible. I ran away to LA a week after high school, I didn't go to college, experienced like a lot of like violence and, you know, homelessness when I was there. And then discovered theater, I saw a production of Death of a Salesman. And that was the thing that really like made me want to like learn everything about writing and writing plays and theater. And so I moved to New York and started reading plays voraciously and really just kind of taught myself how to write from reading plays. And then that has, you know, sort of open doors for where I'm at now in my career. But so all of that to say that like my perspective of what it means to be Latinx, I think is, is very different than probably everybody else here. And, you know, and as I've really both worked in theater and in television and Hollywood, I think that there's sort of a box that our stories are tend to be put in. And what I feel like the world really needs now is the complexity and the nuance of who we all are as individuals and having very, very, very different points of view. And really like showing the world that like being Latinx is like not a monolithic culture. So I wanted to start off by just like throwing a writing prompt at you guys, which I'm going to do too. And this is really like the thing that I am sort of wrestling with right now in my own personal life and my work. But the question is like, what is the thing that you are running away from? Like what because I feel like that is always like the heart of what I should be writing and facing and dealing with. And so I just want to take a couple minutes for all of us to like pour something out on paper. We're not going to share it, but I just wanted to use it to start a conversation between all of us. So the question is what is the thing that you are running away from right now in your life? Okay, cool. So I want to really use this as a way to like, you know, I feel like oftentimes these conversations sort of center around like career advice or like how do you, you know, how do you get an agent or how do you get your foot in the door? But I think I actually think that it's important to ask us like the deeper questions as a community. And so I really wanted to use this as a conversation starter about like, what are things that it doesn't even necessarily have to be related to writing or career? Like, what are things that are like, in this moment in time, right now, are resonating with you that you're, you're struggling with that you want to just like voice or ask a question or be heard and, you know, and really kind of see where the conversation goes for all of us. So I, you know, I don't, I know there's like a blue hand or however you do the, the thing. Yeah. Yeah. If you'd like to join our conversation feel free and turn on your video, you're more than welcome to join us. There is the blue hand raise hand function that I think is the easiest way to join the conversation. That's under the participants button down at the bottom, but you have the capacity to turn your own video on and or your own audio rather on and off. So if you'd like to raise your hand to start the conversation, go ahead and do so now. My first raised hand is from Erdalina. Yeah. Yeah, I just want to get it started just to kind of wet everyone's appetite because I do have something that's kind of scary for me to talk about a little bit. I've been thinking a lot about, I've been thinking a lot about tokenism and you don't realize you're being tokenized until, you know, after the trauma, after the thing, after the experience where you realize and you look back that you were part of a system where you were tokenized and you might have been used in order to, to elevate someone else's sort of agenda in some way. And I experienced that while I was teaching at Iowa, but I didn't really realize it because I thought I was doing all of the things to, to make that program better. And in a way, I almost over, I did my job too well. And in effect, that was the thing that was punitive against, you know, my continuing to work there because it was just like it became so inhospitable to continue my, my work in terms of expanding the, the canon in my classes and also like diversifying the seasons and providing more opportunities for students of color in the projects that we're doing or selecting. And I found that there was just, there was just this great white fragility and, you know, a lot of people don't realize that you know, this whole thing that's happening right now is that, especially with white people kind of being upset that they can't wear a mask, is that they hate the status quo being upended. And, and I think they're finally getting at the idea that what they're, that this, this little thing that they're like, they feel so oppressed by, you know, it's like what we as BIPOC, Black, Indigenous people have experienced in all our lives in our communities, living in fear. You know, people talk about like being, like being tired of being in isolation or quarantine. Well, let's talk about those immigrant communities who have been quarantined in their homes because ICE is just out the door driving up and down the street, ready to pick them out and deport them. And so I think this is all to say that I know that I can utilize and use my privilege working in these white institutions and leverage that or pivot that into something where I can finally like, I need to stop looking for validation from those institutions. I need to start approaching other like-minded institutions, Black-led institutions, POC-led institutions, because I think I'm just tired of having to either adapt or change who I am or my work because of some ideal or some audience that I have to create work for. That was long with it, but there you go. Yeah, yeah. And I'll jump off that and kind of show what I'm, you know, very similar, you know, having a really hard look at my career and like what has been asked of me. I think I get, you know, a lot of people consistently and like TV and Hollywood are like write a trauma porn border story, trauma porn border story. And I feel like that's actually doing a really big disservice to Latinx community. And so, you know, and I think that on top of like the horror of being a new mother, which is, you know, you're like everything could kill my baby. And also like what kind of worlds do I, you know, want to leave for him? And so, I think that that's sort of the big question that I'm grappling with right now personally, and of course, don't have an answer, but I would love to hear like, you know, what are some of the things that you guys are all sort of grappling with right now? Let's hear from Lenina first. Sure. And your question about a tokenization really, sure. I actually was supposed to be working on your play this fall, Hilary, and it got canceled already. You don't know what's going to happen again. And I'm navigating myself, how I feel about the position that I was brought on to do for that project. So that question brought up a lot for me. But my big one that I, when you're like, what are you running away from? What do you not want to face? I always go back to religion, because I come from a very religious household, and I have a lot of feelings about like, thinking that a lot of our problems that we have right now are stemming from religion and the way that it doesn't allow you to accept new truths. And how like fake news and all that stuff, like I wonder how that like is born out of already being able to convince yourself about something that maybe doesn't, you know, like I'm also saying this differently from faith and spirituality versus like an organized religion and how the rules of that then permeate into other people's lives that aren't your own. And I'm afraid, I'm afraid of addressing that because I love my mother. Yeah. And, you know, I always heard this thing like, you know, don't, don't wait till the person you love dies to write the thing that, you know, it's gonna like hurt them if you write about it. But I still can't help it. Like anytime it starts with dress those things, I'm like, I don't know if I could tell my mom has come to all my plays and she loves them. And the daughter writing a play that I have to tell her mommy, you can come to this because it's gonna hurt you. It's gonna make you really rethink some of the things that you believe is, is hard and scary. So yeah, that's what I'm grappling with, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's very real and true and brave. And I mean, what, what would it look like writing it, writing it for yourself and not, you know, maybe you don't share with anyone, maybe you do, but, but just like getting it out on paper for you and you alone and giving yourself permission to do that. Yeah, I think I'm starting to get there. I'm writing for the first time ever a play that deals with one character that is religious and one character that is mine. So that has, I'm starting to break that open, I think. But yeah, I guess overall just like the ways that that theme of religion or the way that that affects our mindset can be then extrapolated to the greater like world problems is maybe like, I don't know, the connection that I'm trying to make that I'm not quite there yet. And you know, I'm not looking for an answer. I really just want to express that and see, you know, the other folks have had similar grappling with religion, especially in Latinx communities where religion is usually very, very prominent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My dad's a minister. And so I spent, you know, my whole childhood in the church and it's definitely one of those things that I think is deep. And I don't, you know, I'm definitely struggling with it a lot too. Our next one is Justin. Yes, thank you so much. I had very similar ideas about religion. But I found mostly that what I wanted to run away from was like the oppressive fear that comes with being in institutions that I feel are not designed for me. And especially like right right now I found that I think a lot of the fear that in my childhood in institutions was like during shooter drills or during raid drills. And like in high school, we there was a situation where one of our like somebody in the school was going to a police funeral service. So he had to don a tire like the uniform, the bulletproof vest, the gun. And when that happened, our school went into lockdown for like four or five hours. And like that fear of just like stacking up desks against the door and like not knowing if you're going to get out. I don't know. I want that to never happen again. And I don't know if running away from it is the best solution. But I think it's like the only thing that I had to cope in the time of like not dealing with it immediately and just plain it aside. Now that I'm older, I feel like I have more power to change these institutions. So hopefully that won't happen in the future. Thank you for sharing. I mean, that's, you know, imagine. Yeah. And I think part of it comes from the fact that I like 9 11 happened when I was just two years old. So that sort of relationship to fear and terror has been like sort of the forefront of politics my entire life. So I don't really know how how to do it. All right, I guess. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting, right? Like we're each each generation has been shaped by something I remember just growing up I was shaped by the the age crises, Reagan, the, the LA riots, Rodney King. And, you know, it's it for some people even younger was like, what is the duck and cover like the nuclear bomb exercises where you all had to hide under the desk. I don't know. I wouldn't know what that was. But first of all, Justin, thank you for making me feel all that you were only two years old when 9 11 happened. Second of all, it was so much cooler that you could you didn't have to go through all the security checks at the airport before that. Yeah, I don't know, Hillary did. I imagine you had a you you had you you were done with high school and then you were just done with school. Yes, I was done with school. Was there was there just like a like fuck school like I or was it just not I think it was a lot of things, you know, like I said, I grew up in like really rural conservative parts of the country where like, you know, like being called a spick and things like that were pretty regular and just was like, you know, it was a very insular community. And so there was just like, you know, people let me know every single day that I was not welcome in that community. And so I think by the time I was like a junior high school and also again, it was like a rural small public school where like our education was really based on the Bible, even though technically it was a public school. And so there was no room for any sort of like thought or question outside of, you know, evangelical Christianity, like conservative thought, like that's it. And if you even like start to question that, you're really ostracized. And so I thought that that was like for me what school was, you know, I didn't know that like, you could be curious and there was space to like have questions and to have doubts and to like want to explore different points of view and and you know, and again, like, you know, my grandfather was of the generation that like, you have to be more American than American, you know, so we were not, my mother wasn't taught Spanish, we were not taught Spanish. My mother didn't even know that Spanish was his first language until she was in high school. And so there was always so many questions around like, who am I? Where do I come from? But I'm not in an environment where like I can even begin to like ask those questions. And so, you know, by my junior year, I was like, I'm done. I'm not even thinking about applying to colleges. And then I went to LA and of course, like started hanging out with like you know, like all the, you know, Chicanas and LA and you know, suddenly I'm like the white girl there. And so that I think that like, well, where do I belong has really informed this lifelong journey of like, what does it mean to be like mixed? Like, what am I allowed to identify with? What am I not? Like, where does my, what is my own family's history? Like my mother grew up on the border. And like that was very important and really like shaped who she is. And so I think all of my plays sort of tackle a different like, well, what is this? What is this identity? And what is this history? And what is this? You know, what, where am I within this like paradigm? You know, and again, like I went to LA when I was like 18, and then we got to high school. And so I really, you know, I ended up, I was homeless, like my first job was like cocktailing at a strip club when I was, you know, most of my peers, people my age are in college and I'm like trying to survive, you know, the streets of LA and like not getting trafficked. And I'd say that was a joke, but it actually wasn't really a joke. You know, and so like, like dealing with all of that, as well as these questions of like, who are you and where do you belong? And then like seeing, you know, production of death of a salesman. And I think also, like my dad being a minister and growing up, going to church every Sunday, there was something very like familiar about this shared communal experience that made me want to start writing plays and want to like take off a move to New York and, you know, see as many places I could and just like learn as much as I could. And, you know, and so, but I think like, again, it's, it's, it's always for me, it's always like this question of like identity and who are you is always evolving. And so I am, you know, I'm, which is why I like love just having these sort of like open organic conversations, because I think it's really important to have ownership over that. And that there are, you know, I feel like both in terms of like, this is a profession and like American culture in general, we're sort of always striving towards like, well, perfectionism and being very competitive. And like, how do I write the thing that's like going to open doors and get me the results as I want, as opposed to like being okay with the doubt and being uncomfortable and constantly like being able to evolve both in your own work as well as your process. I feel like, you know, everything, everything that I write is, is, I learn a lot from it. And so I'm always like looking back and trying to evaluate like what, what works, what didn't, what do I want to take away from this, what could I do better next time, like, you know, or what is like a new thing that I'm wrestling with. So anyway, all of that to say that like, for me today, like really just wanting to like embrace sort of living in the doubt and the uncomfortable and having this, you know, conversation with like members of our community. I think it's sort of the thing that I'm most afraid of right now, which is why it feels right to like just, you know, throw, throw myself out there and listen. And I'm also like really trying to listen right now more than like yeah, if that makes sense. Yeah, absolutely. You made me think of something about death of a salesman and I, you know, I don't want to go down the death of a salesman rabbit hole, but I'm wondering if America's having this Willie Lohman moment, right? Where it's the America, if Willie, if America is personified in the character of Willie Lohman and they've finally like they've been living in some kind of an illusion, right? Of privilege and success that so at least at the time that was tied to capitalism. But now it's like, like the biffs, the biffs of the world are saying, look mom, look dad, look what's happening around us. Look at who we are and what we've become. We need to change that. And at the end of the day, like Willie still doesn't see, right? And maybe, maybe, maybe Willie Lohman will finally see. Yeah. But it's hard to say right now. It really is. It's, you know, it's it's a huge massive reckoning that I think we're all sort of facing that is historical and, you know, and who knows what kinds of stories will come up. But I think it's important to like acknowledge and talk. You know, so I would love to like, if anybody has, they just want to throw it along. Yeah. Anybody else want to join in? Yeah, we have a question in the chat really quickly. And then next we can go to Alex Hernandez. But Arianna, I think I can't, can't use her voice at the moment. But she said, I've been studying the myosinir acting technique for two years. My studio has recently started having discussions about how white the canon is, how problematic that is. She was talking to someone about this and they said, if we diversify the canon, myosinir will always be racist because it focuses on white behavior. That stuck with me. Racism is so deeply embedded in the technique, but it's hidden under the guides of tradition. So what do you think we can do about this? Do you think it's best to start over rather than trying to fix such a problematic institution? Oh, you know, little conversation starter. That's a great, a great, a great, great question. And, you know, I, there is a huge blind spot with that, with what acting is in white culture versus like, you know, and I'm speaking for myself, like a Mexican American family. And I have found this pretty consistently. Like when I work with Latinx directors, there is a huge, there's just an unspoken understanding that like, you know, we're wearing your, your feelings on your sleeve and being passionate and being emotive and, you know, being unapologetic about what you are, but also being able to what you're feeling, but also being able to like pivot in like a split second is, is so ingrained. And, you know, I know for speaking for my family, like who we are and, and our Mexican culture. And I think that white, they're the white, like what is good acting is like you repress and you hide and you don't show and you pretend that you're not feeling what you're feeling, or you've buried it so deep that you don't even know you're feeling those things anymore. And I think those are like, that is what the canon is. And so, you know, I keep going back now to being like, how do I find the community that understands that? Because I, it's, it's, it's, it's a, you can't explain it. And I've tried to explain it to white directors. And there just is such a huge blind spot. But I think it's also again, like being really unapologetic about the work that we're writing right now and our points of view and not trying to fit it into like the, the box of white institutions, which I personally have done in my career. And it is gross. It doesn't, it feels gross. It doesn't matter like what the outcome is at the end of the day. You walk away, speaking for myself have walked away from those situations being like I, I sold part of who I am for, for whites. And so I don't, I do think we have to define it for ourselves because it's just something that is inherently misunderstood. And until we have more stories and more points of view and really like showing the world that like, you can have feelings and you can express them and it's not a fucking telenovela, you know, that it's like this is part of, this is so vital to understanding what it means to be Latinx. And so I, you know, my, my thing is to just fucking write it, just write it and own it and be unapologetic about it. And the more of us out there writing our stories and owning them, the more the world is going to have to pay attention to them. So that is my two cents. That is so awesome. Thank you for sharing that. Any other questions? I wanted to speak to, I guess, kind of what you talked about, like not actually being like traditionally what they call traditionally trained to go into the arts basically. So I kind of came from a similar background, like I was military, I went to five different high schools. So like I was just all over the place and I somehow got into an arts institution and was studying stage management. And I just, I wanted to speak to like that feeling of like, I was just behind because I wasn't like, I didn't have parents who invested in the arts. And everybody else like, one of the institutions I went to, it was a private school and everybody else had been doing musical theater since they were like five and they had all this knowledge about like what was coming out and who was writing this and it was just like consistently like just being like, okay, well, I'll just, I'll just get in a research it later and feeling like my curriculum was like, they would just jump over things because they assumed everybody had this knowledge, right? Because they were here. And so like even now when I go to work, like if I have contracts and predominantly like a white theater or a Lord theater, like I still have this like fear I'm like, oh crap, like I don't know any of this. And they're like quoting so and so and this prison theory, like, and just like table work. And it's just like, oh, and they know how to do this and this and this and this. And it's just like, oh my God, like, you know, I just feel so behind all the time, especially like working on classical plays. It's just like consistently, I feel like, okay, like I'm missing like another degree or something. So I just appreciated you sharing like kind of like coming from like a real world and not like necessarily not a real world, but coming from like a place of like untraditional training. Yeah, I mean, I think that's like what makes you really unique and special also and like what makes what you have to say about the world necessary. And, you know, like all of that other stuff can be taught. But I totally, I totally empathize with that. I've, you know, I feel like I'm still in so many rooms and I have no idea what people are talking about. Like secretly trying to take notes and be like, okay, I'll Google that later, or just like, you know, nodding your head and pretending like you understand what people are saying. But that stuff can be taught, you know, like you can learn it, like you can teach yourself if it, you know, but I think the like, like, I've, you know, I think like class is such a big and spoken thing in our country too. And especially in like the world of theater and TV, I think there's a lot of people, many people tend to come from like, sort of an upper middle class backgrounds. And so I think there's also a huge as much as there's like a misunderstanding about like, what does it mean to be Latinx? Like I think there is also that around class. And so I don't know. Yeah. Just to add to that, it's just that, yeah, I was also in the very, I mean, I came to theater really late too. Yeah. Yes, people, you know, there's an expect, yes, there's, there's sort of an expectation that you need to know what streetcar named desire and death of a salesman is or what cherry orchard is. But imagine a world now or we can actually like, we can hold up, we can hold up Marie Irene Fornes and Luis Valdez and Lorraine Hansberry and August Wilson alongside those people. If we could have like, there's a way to kind of like, expand whatever the commonality is, expand the canon or reinvent the canon or, you know, revert, you know, like talk about theater in ways that that is non-western based. And I think that's going to take a time because some of the stuff is like rooted, like the some of the racism is rooted in like high school theater, like that they're like the worst. High school theater is the worst because I think they come, I remember getting students from high school and all they knew was like, Greece, or, oh God, or being in West Side Story and, you know, brown face or something like that. And just, it's just, it's so hard to like, that shit is taught and it's so hard to make them unlearn that. I imagine it's the same for film or television as well. But Yeah, there's definitely a lot, you know, it's finding yourself writing a, you know, Mexican American woman and, you know, you're working with all these like white male producers that are. Is there like, as someone who's like, certainly you seem like someone who's maybe had the perspective of being an outsider looking in. Are there stories or characters that you gravitate towards in terms of like, being in the writer's room or creating a play for yourself? Yeah, I mean, I think I always gravitate towards like tough, resilient, unapologetically, raw women, you know, whether they're, you know, from all walks of life. I mean, I think that looking at all of my work, there's that is sort of a reoccurring character and everything that I've written. And, you know, and I think that was part of why I got hired to work on the Americans, you know, because that's very much who, you know, Paige ultimately became and I wrote a lot of her scenes and Elizabeth as well. But yeah, you know, I think I'm really like, I tend to like come back to like survival and resilience and that there's so much like humanity and nuance and beauty and like the roughest sort of messiest parts of human existence. And I think oftentimes, you know, both in TV and theater, I see stories that are sort of like ideas of that, but not actually like the lived. And then I think that's when it becomes like, you know, trauma porn that you're like, you're you're fascinated with the suffering, but you actually like have a blind spot to like the mundane and the humanity and the beauty that like also comes with like really hard, rough, raw situations. And so that that's, I think that is really more than a character is like the reoccurring theme that I come back to in my work. And, you know, if you guys like have any questions that like are not also about this, like please feel free to throw them. So we're not like awkwardly staring at each other also. We have one from Shelly. Oh, hi. Can you hear me? Okay, cool. I remember seeing Alligator, like a reading of it at the O'Neill. And then like years later seeing in the city and just it's so raw. It's exactly that. It's just like unapologetically dangerous and beautiful and vulnerable. And just to start with that, thank you for that show. It meant a lot to see. I don't really have a question just like frustration, I guess. I'm not Latina. I joined this group as a mixed-race black girl because I saw it on Facebook. I was like, I'm coming. But so there have been these opportunities bubbling up in the past couple of weeks. Unfortunately, because of the killings of all of these black people. That said, I'm trying to like take a hold of them, right? So there was this virtual coffee week this week. You might actually be a part of it as a TV writer, I'm not sure. But where I met today with like a writer and producer of a TV show that I love that is particular to my experience as a mixed-race woman. And I was like, roll excited about it. I'll literally do anything for you. I'll make you coffee. I'll be a fly on the wall in the writer's room. And I left feeling a little, I also was like, if you like, he offered to read my work and like a web series that I wrote. So that was cool of him. This is no shade against him. But like, man, it just felt weird. He's a white man, right? He's like working in a room that I dream of working in. And I left offering to make him coffee just to like be in the room that may or may not exist. Like we don't know when we'll be able to even like, I guess I don't know how that's working now with the virus. But I'm just babbling now. I'm feeling a lot of things. I'm sad and angry and mad. And just thank you for listening. And also maybe how do you deal with all that shit? Man, how do you do? I, you know, it's, you know, like, I think, like Tlaik was saying, like tokenism is oftentimes, I mean, I know for myself as well, it's like after the facts that you look back and you're like, oh, shit, oh, shit, oh, you know, whether it's TV or theater. But I, I am like, I think the thing is really keeping me sane is always writing something that's for me, like that's private and personal and that I have to like remind me of who I am and why I do this. You know, because TV, it's, it's, it's hard and it's gross and it's brutal. And, you know, I think there is a lot of the like, you're so hungry to be seen and to have an opportunity. And yet, you know, and, and also like oftentimes, like a room that's a story about, you know, people of color and like there's, it's all white people or there's like one like diversity hire, but the diversity hired is like the staff writer or, you know, maybe they're a PA or something and they don't actually really have a voice in it. They're just there for the optics. And, you know, I think it's, it's, again, I think it's like just always like having something that's personal and yours that like that world can't touch that keeps you grounded and keeps you focused. And, you know, I, Tracy Scott Wilson, who is amazing playwright, she works on the Americans with her. She's a Black queer woman, if you're not familiar with who she is in her work. But she like the one piece of advice she gave me on that show was like, you have to, you have to be very specific and calculating when you, you know, bring up racism or misogyny. Because if you do it too much people won't listen to you. But if you're too quiet and silence, like, you're also not being heard. And so it has to be like, which is a really shitty, sucky thing. But it's like that was like her one piece of advice in terms of like how you survive that world. But I do also think that there is a huge shift like happening both in TV and theater that there are more women and people of color at the helm of stories. There's much more recognition and like how vital and important and necessary like having all of our voices and brooms are. And so, you know, I'm hopeful that in another couple of years there will be even more opportunity to feel heard in that world, you know. And like having community also, like having people that you can just like vent to and people that get it, you know, and people that. Girl, I started therapy. Yeah. Good. That was one good thing to come out of all this madness. Anyway, thank you. Of course. Of course. We've got a couple of things coming up in the chat. Next, we have Eresa, who I think was, yeah, you're up. Yeah, thank you. First of all, it's like comforting to hearing to hear a lot of what you're saying. Kind of echoing coming from like white dad and like a Latina mom, I can totally relate to a lot of the identity things that you're talking about. And I think you've sort of touched on navigating these spaces. But I was just like wondering, I'm trying to think of how to phrase this like a joke that has come up amongst some of my friends recently is like we get it Eresa and you're Cuban like you introduce yourself as that when you walk in a room. And it is that I feel that thing of like it is something that I feel is such a part of me and I want to claim, but then this weird thing of it being tokenized. And I do wonder like how you navigate these spaces of these writing rooms and like staying true to your identity, but also not allowing it to be tokenized. Yeah. Oh gosh, it's really hard. I mean, I think also like being mixed is its own complicated thing because I mean, I don't know what your experience is, but I feel like for me, I'm always asking permission to be seen to be in a to allow to be in a space. And you know, a lot of code switching as well. Anyway, that's like a whole other conversation. I feel like we could do like one of these I'm just like being mixed and like what that is like. But you know, I in terms of like, you know, I'm really pragmatic also about my career and who I am as a writer and really like constantly try to remind myself of the long game. You know that it's not like a one off opportunity is not going to define you. So I, you know, have been diversity hire and shows, I've certainly I know on multiple occasions have been like the play that is like our POC female grant play and we sort of aren't invested in whether it does well or not and we're going to put it in the small space and that's what it is. But it's like being for me, it's like, I know this, I know this walking into the room. And so how can I subvert their expectations and what they think of me and how can I also take away something? How can I learn from this? How can I get better at my craft from this? Even if like I'm not going to be seen by the powers that be or, you know, no matter what the reviews are, they're probably going to hate my play because it's going to be like old white men that don't understand this point of view anyway and don't want to. But so like how can I learn and get better at what I do? And how can I continue to like use this as an opportunity to like hone my craft? And so I think like for me leading from that, like both having something that I'm writing that's privately for me as well as just like, this is it, you know, this is you're getting something out of me, but I'm also going to get something out of you. And I'm going to be unapologetic about that, you know. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Hella down for a conversation about being mixed. Our next question is in the chat. Do you do connection errors? Here we go. I wanted to ask, speak about the issue of being visible as a Latinx playwright, write about anything outside of a quote unquote Latinx narrative. Basically white people can write about anything, while anything we see we write is seen as a Latinx story. Proud to hold these Latinx narratives and expand them, but do you have thoughts for how we fight to expand what we're given liberty to be seen writing without being put into that box? Yeah, I think you just write it, you know, and I say that like that's so much easier, so then done, because I, you know, I feel like this is something that I'm actually like very much struggling with in this moment. You know, the first couple of plays that I wrote had nothing to do with being Latinx and it wasn't until I wrote a Latinx play, which like was not like it came out of like a genuine like this is something that I want to understand about who I am and my family and, you know, our history and culture and like I want I'm going to give myself permission to like research this and write this and own it and like have these conversations with my family that we've never really had a conversation with. So it came out of like a very like organic place and that suddenly like changed how I was seen in my career and suddenly, you know, everybody's like, oh, we're going to commission you to write another Latinx play or like, you know, in television, it's a lot of like, do you want to, you know, write this original pilot that's like another border story and I'm fucking tired to be honest with you. I've written like enough and that's like not really my story. Like I don't know what it's like to cross the desert and be undocumented in this country. And, you know, I certainly have my own family and I, you know, my grandfather and I can find a personal way into those stories, but it's not my story. And I am I am really tired of being put in that box also. And so I think it's just like, you just write it, you write it and you own it and you be unapologetic about it. And again, you know, I think the more of us that are doing that and saying, no, like, here's a story about like a family in the Midwest and they just happen to be Latinx, they just happen to be Dominican or Cuban or whatever, but it's not about that. It's about like getting into college or whatever BS that like, you know, white male playwrights can write about and saying, this is Latinx and this is Latinx and this is Latinx and this is Latinx. And again, like not apologizing for it. I think part of like tokenism, tokenism, diversity, inclusion, all of these like, you know, boxes are are about having one identity and one narrative and that being the focus and saying like, if you want to, to even have an opportunity, you have to force yourself into this box. But I think we have to not allow that to happen to us as a community. Anyway, which again, I know is like so much easier said than done because you're like, I think we're all so hungry for like, just to have a place at the table and to be in the room, but but we also have to, we've never been defined before, like the United States, America has not defined us. So we have to define who we are and show the world this is who we are. And it's complex and it's nuanced and we're all an individual. Well, anyway, so that's, that's, that's, you know, that was great. Thank you. Beautiful. We have one more minute. We have time for one more question. I see Daniella. Does Daniella have a question? All right, I can ask the question. All right, yay. I'm thinking, Hillary, this is great. I guess my question, when I was writing about what I'm running away from, and by the way, what resonated for me just now because I grew up in the Midwest. So lots of stories. I think what's hard for a lot of us as Latinos and artists is like self care. And you talked a little bit about that, like writing your own, I love that, like your own private thing while you're in the midst of this, you know, dynamic in the TV world and stuff. And just, I know that sometimes it's hard for us to, for me anyways, to go through, like I wrote just, just on a personal level, like I have to go through things like old stuff that I have and get rid of stuff and just taking care, and I guess it comes to like self care. So I was just, because even that can be like a radical act to take care of ourselves and not just be constantly having to respond to other people's needs or especially groups run by mostly white people and stuff. So what, just curious how that aspect, if you have any ideas about that for yourself or what you did in these moments or? Yeah. I mean, I, you know, the self care for me instead of going out the window with a new board. Congratulations. Crying in the next room as we speak. But I, you know, I, I, I, I mean, it is important because I think you also like part of like tokenism is feeling like you have to work harder than everyone else in the room. You have to constantly prove something. You have to like please everybody. You like, you have to be exceptional. There's no room for you to fail or take a risk, but also you have to like be pleasant and especially like also as a woman on top of it, there's, you know, and that is impossible. And that will like, that's, that will break a person, you know, and you know, for me, like outside of having a small human, before I had a small human, it really was just like, you know, exercising and, you know, and I'm sober, my husband and I got sober together. And so I think like for us, for me, like cutting out anything that is toxic or takes away from me being able to be a full person in my life. And, you know, I grew up riding horses. And so that's like my guilty pleasure, life, passion, whenever I have time to do that. Again, like, now that I have a small human, I don't know what time to do any of these. But, but, but even if it's just like, you know, a simple, I think is like, making sure you're drinking enough water, which sounds like such a cliche, but it's so true. Like, that's, you know, again, like, we're all like in this, we're playing the long game and like part of it is, is making sure that you can get up in the morning and be fully who you are. And that's, and, and, you know, being able to face the world in that state of mind, whatever that is for you. So, yeah. We'd had a, oh, sorry, go ahead. No, I said eat vegetables. We'd add a hand raised from Hazel. I look like she cut out, but I think she's back. Can I ask you a question? Yes, I'm here. Oh God. Okay, I already wrote it. So I'm just going to read because I'm way more articulate that way. Thank you for having this conversation around tokenism. I normally have just enjoyed listening in, but this sparked a thought in me because I have a friend who's currently just starting out as a writer, and she's staffed on a show where she's the only person of color in the room and she's the only Asian. She was hired specifically because they were writing about a Chinese American character. She is Chinese American, but she's found pushback on every single thing that she wants representation on. And also, she's finding that she's not valued as a writer because she's seen as like this diversity higher. So my question is, are there safe spaces structurally that exist for writers of color in Hollywood? And if not, or even if there is, what does that look like? And what does mentorship or allyship look like? What are the safe spaces for writers? And for her especially, it's because she's just starting out. So she's afraid to rock the boat and she's trying to speak up on her own behalf, but it's also really tough because her boss is also white. And for the most part, while co-signing the other writers in the room. Yeah, I mean, it's if you're the only person of color in a room and you don't have like, that's hard. That's a very you know, I know the Writers Guild is trying to have more programs and mentorship specifically for writers of color. You know, CAA is trying to start something also. I don't personally like I don't have like anything specific other than I, you know, I know the conversations around that. But I think, again, like for myself and sort of how I've felt like survived those worlds and navigated it is like finding finding your community, finding other writers that are kind of in the same position. And you know, I was I was on a show with two other writers of color and it was frustrating because there was a lot of racism in it. And we were able to like be a collective voice in that situation, which like had it just been like one person that would have never happened. But since then, we have like remains really close and like continue to like, you know, reach out to each other whenever we're dealing with something frustrating. I wish that I could have, you know, a concrete like here's a great place. But I think we kind of have to build those for ourselves right now, unfortunately, as well as like building it for ourselves and building a community and then making sure that we're also like reaching out to other people and bringing them in so that we continue to collectively grow as a voice. So anyway, but I'm I wish her luck. That's that's I've I've been there and I've had friends in that position too. And it's it's it's not easy. It's definitely yeah. Thank you. Hopefully this moment will create more avenues where people can report the these kinds of yeah, microaggressions or Oh, she's keeping receipts. Good. We don't want to, you know, take up too much of your time. We maybe we'll just wrap up by I think I asked you before we we went on if we could see your baby. Yeah, let me go. Let me go grab them. I bet you it's baby Yoda, right? It's baby Yoda. You want to tell us what's coming up next while we wait for Hilary to come back? This Monday is Fernanda Coppell, who is will be here on Monday. And Daniela remind me, did you go to UC Santa Cruz? Me? No, no, I didn't. Okay. I almost went there, but I went to West Atlanta. Geez, why did you go to West Atlanta? I think Fernanda just logged on here too. She's right there. We both went to UC Santa Cruz. Yeah, I should have gone there. Now she left. Oh, there you are. We're going to see Fernanda on Monday. Everybody say hi to Fernanda. The pride of Los Cabos. Can't wait. That's what we're going to do. Los Cabos. Didn't you come from Los Cabos? Masatlar. Oh, so just just a ferry ride. Okay. Oh, here comes the baby. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. This is our first baby. This is a historic moment on the Super Friends. Congratulations. He just had his lunch and... Oh, my God. What's his name, Hilary? Ziggy and Tonio. Oh, my God. I love it. Ziggy. Oh, my God. Ziggy. This is my existence. Congratulations. I speak for all of us that we all commit to try to make a better world for Ziggy. He needs these stories. That's right. He's even more... He's going to be even more confused than I am about his identity because his dad is also... His dad is white and Panamanian and I'm white Mexican and so this poor kid is the mutt. Oh, well, we should let you go and take care of Ziggy and we want to thank you again for being here. Thank you, guys. And come back anytime. We're going to go take a nap now. Okay. Thank you, everyone. We'll see you on Monday. Same time. Same channel with Fernanda. Sign up. Happy Juneteenth. Happy Juneteenth. See you all next week.