 Welcome to theCUBE's special program series, Women of the Cloud, brought to you by AWS. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. I'm very pleased to welcome Veronica McCarthy to the program, Senior Sales Manager, ISB of Amazon Web Services. Veronica, great to have you on the program. Thanks for joining me today. Thanks for having me. Tell me a little bit about your current role, a little bit about yourself. Absolutely. Yeah, so I've been at Amazon just about four years now. I am really passionate about technology. I've been in the tech industry for about 20 plus years. Right now I'm a sales leader, so I lead a team of folks that help software companies build technology in the cloud or move technology to the cloud and help them scale and innovate in the cloud. Awesome, I love that. Talk a little bit about for those looking to grow their careers in tech, what are some of the tactical recommendations that you have that you think are really, really pertinent for others that are looking to climb that ladder? Yeah, it's so important to have that passion for technology, because that's what we do every day. It excites me to jump out of bed and learn what's new, what's coming, what we're building together and how early we are in cloud computing and in technology as a whole. So really get curious and even feel free to get hands on. I remember early as a kid just building computers with my dad in his room. So get hands on. Today there's so many things available on the internet for free tiers. You can just play with software to get building websites, games, whatever interests you. And oh by the way, watch theCUBE because you're going to learn a lot and you're going to get immersed in technology, which is so important when you're learning to grow a career here, because it comes across when you're interviewing, when you're talking with others, when you're networking, that you're really interested in the topic and you're really here to grow and help build tech to be what it can be in the future. This are all great recommendations for really building that authenticity. I love your advice. So really from an immersion perspective, you're right. There's so many opportunities for people of all ages to start playing around with tech. And but that your point of opening up your mind and being curious and embracing the different learning paths is also that curiosity. I always think creativity as well are just really important recommendations for others that are looking to grow their career in tech. I wanna understand some of, based on some of those tactical recommendations, talk to us about a success story that you've had where you've solved problems for customers relating to cloud computing based on some of your recommendations. Totally, just picking up on the curiosity theme that we were talking about. One of the things that I did when I was earlier in my career and I was looking after a customer is I got curious about their business. How did they interact with their customers? And I worked backwards from that experience because they were selling to consumers. And I said, what if they could do all these other things that could open up the consumer's eyes? So I came up with a zany idea of what if they did a partnership with Amazon and we flew their goods directly to the end consumer via drone, you know, just crazy stuff. And I wrote something called a PRFAQ, which at Amazon we use very often it's a press release frequently asked questions. This PRFAQ was, what could you do in the future with tech? What could, you know, things, what could we unlock with tech in your business? The C-suite of this company said, you know what, that's really interesting. We're not going to do that crazy drone thing, but we like the thinking and we like the learning. We like thinking about the future. How does cloud help us unlock that future? So the long story short, they had a monolith on-prem getting their technology from on-prem monolith to microservices in the cloud unlocks and opens up APIs for them to partner with other organizations to grow their customer base and in turn grow their revenue. This company in particular pandemic hit market change they had to pivot or else they were going to go out of business. And because we had moved their technology from an on-prem monolith to the cloud they were able to make that pivot and they survived the pandemic and are thriving. So it's a real life example of a success story of just getting curious, understanding the customer's business, coming back from that and then aligning for the future and getting a customer to get curious with you and build for the future, which worked out. And who could have predicted the pandemic, but it worked. Right, but getting the customer to be curious with you kind of leads me into talking about, and the customer wanting to embrace and embrace cloud computing as really a transformative business model also takes cultural impact. Sounds like what you've been able to achieve with this particular success story, the customer had the appetite from a cultural transformation perspective but that's a hard thing to accomplish. Talk a little bit about that maybe from that customer's perspective and how they really were able to transform into a culture that embraces cloud computing. Absolutely, your spot on it with all of these transformations it's people process technology. Technology is the easy part, right? The cloud's there, we can, the architecture's there we can build software. It's the people in the process that's hard. So as part of that transformation and part of that engagement they actually hired me, so I left Amazon and I went and became the VP of technology for this company and I led 650 engineers globally through this transformation from an on-prem model with microservices in the cloud. So they put faith in me because they knew this was the outcome we needed to get to but they needed the people in the process to change. So bringing the engineers on that journey of I know you've been building this way for a really long time and in this place we're going to bring you into the future and we're all going to do it together. So it's a learning journey because we're all going to learn how to build microservices in the cloud and we're going to do it together and then it opens up their future as well as they continue to grow as engineers. So it's not easy to do, but it takes time but we were able to do it in that case. But you bring up a great point, it's a learning journey and our organizations to have that appetite and that understanding and appreciation that is as critical as the technology and you talk about people process technology the technology is easy. It's really changing the frames of mind the speed at which they need to change for organizations to be competitive. So they can leverage cloud to really help unlock the competitive advantages as that success story customer that you mentioned. Absolutely, absolutely. And building on that innovation, right? Which innovation is just a flywheel of learning. So absolutely. It is. Let's check gears a little bit but speaking of people and processes what are some of the challenges that you see from a diversity perspective whether it's thought diversity in tech today? Yeah, great question. Tech is an opportunity for a level playing ground because tech is a platform with which you can build things. The important piece of building tech though is we need to make sure that many diversities are represented in the room. So when we're making tech decisions of how we're going to build what our consumers are going to how they're going to interact with our technology not everyone is one individual person. It's not a monolith out there consuming our technology. So let's make sure we have that diversity in the decision making and building the tech as well as in the user use case and working backwards from our end users of our technology. I think one of the most one of the easiest ways to start to approach that diversity of thought and getting that diversity within your teams is looking at a gender diversity ratio. And we've seen historically whilst we've seen gains in gender diversity and technology over the last few years it's still not where it needs to be. There's a stat that I read recently in a McKinsey study that only one in four C-suite leaders are women today. And of all of all the entry level jobs from entry level to manager of all like let's say you take a hundred men only 87 of those are women that are currently being provided only 82 are women of color. So it's an opportunity for us to really level the playing field and think about how do we intentionally put people in the room when tech decisions are being made that can make change and build tech for who we know is out there to consume and are be a part of the art tech community. Intention you mentioned that is so critical for organizations really need to be looking at diversity DEI from an intentional perspective that can't just be ad hoc here and there they really have to have a strategy behind it. And when I see companies and there are a few that I've worked with that really caught my eye that have done a phenomenal job of that thought diversity gender diversity, cultural diversity within their leadership even the people that they put on stage to talk to their events they stand out incredibly well. We also know that there's and you probably have numbers on this that organizations with women in the C-suite are far more profitable than organizations that don't have that. So the data we want to talk nerdy tech the data is there it's demonstrating what the potentials are the capabilities the opportunities yet we're still so far behind and we have so much road to cover we know the direction we need to go and we just got to be able to get the teams behind that get there. Absolutely and data is key. I read a study recently that said if you don't have at least 30% diversity in the room when you're making decisions you are statistically not going to make the right decision which is incredible. So the powers and the data we know better decisions are made companies do better when there's diversity in the room of all types. Absolutely. And can you imagine the sky's the limit organizations are actually able to just start making headway on that percentage number and shifting it towards that diversity. What incredible opportunities and technologies and services and solutions that can be developed and delivered to me that demanding consumers needs so much potential there. It's kind of like a crystal ball if only we had one we could actually see what we can actually be. Yeah. You're absolutely right. And I think thinking about some of the older reasons why maybe women didn't stay in the workforce longer or maybe didn't take a career in tech a lot of those were minimized during the pandemic. So we think about the work from home concept. Right. Like that's so normal now. It's we're no longer grinding. You know, I have to leave early for daycare pickup or whatever the challengers those are the perceived challenges that were to women progressing in their careers. A lot of that can be managed now. So there was some good things that have come out of that pandemic time that, you know, it's much more acceptable to be home remote working. I think the balance isn't making sure that we continue our in-person innovation where we can. I find with customers today bringing executive teams together in a room to have them brainstorm and innovate is still priceless. Right. Like we still have to spend that time we're humans. But as a woman in technology I love the flexibility that we are now taking and adopting as a norm and even, you know some of my male peers that have kids at home they love being around the kids at home and it's a it's a real positive impact I think that we've had amongst a lot of negative impacts by the pandemic as well. They're definitely silver linings. That's one of them. I was talking with somebody in Italy this morning we were filming and he said, I don't think my daughters are going to run here. And I thought, you know, even if they do that's part of totally the work force that's part of the hybrid work force that we're all embracing. But you bring up a great point about the in-person innovation. You know, events are starting to come back so exciting. There's just certain things about events from an innovation perspective you just can't replicate by video. So getting those executives in a room together talk about what you guys are doing there and some of the things that you think over the next few years that will really help drive evolution and innovation attack. Absolutely, yeah. I have a lot of clients that often will say oh, well, we're a remote first company so it's okay that we do our innovation session online. But then I remind them when was the last happy hour you had online? Like, do you remember the early days of the pandemic and we all sat on, you know, pick your web conferencing platform and we, you know, drank wine. But there was only one person that you could hear in that. So when everybody's going around and all the boxes are in the screen it was difficult to have multiple conversations. If you walk into a happy hour in real life people all over the room are having multiple conversations and a lot of different things are happening in the room at the same time. It's the same thing with innovation. If we bring an executive team into the room, guess what? There's gonna be a couple sidebar conversations going on as the big room progresses and that's really healthy and that's a great way to get people that may not be the one, the star of the happy hour that wants to speak the whole time to also get their inputs and their feedback into the innovation process. So that's just an example of why it's so important. One of the things we do here at Amazon is we have something called the digital innovation workshop which is exactly as it sounds, right? Just get in a room with some whiteboards with some thought leaders and really let's innovate for the future. And it's a blank sheet of paper kind of start and out of it we come up with a business plan, a PRFAQ like a press release I mentioned in my story earlier. That's the seeds of that. So it's really powerful and I'm so excited we're continuing to do those face to face because it's so important. It's so important to have diversity present in the room when decisions are being made whether it's decisions about technology or not that thought diversity is, and as the data show that you mentioned demonstrates how much more successful and profitable organizations can be. I'm going to ask you kind of switching gears again. Last question, if we look kind of down the road from an evolution perspective of your, in cloud of your role evolving what are some of the things that you see down the pike? Yeah, so great question. I am in a field sales organization today. So when the pandemic first hit, I thought, oh boy, that's the end of our career. I think we're not going to be going out and calling on customers base anymore. But it's actually been the opposite. I've seen more engagement from our customers. They really do want to spend time with us innovating. When we come into those conversations we come in with a curious mindset. So I think from a field sales perspective it's not going away and I think it's going to continue to build and it's a great career for women in particular to get into, super flexible. The privilege of travel which is a nice vacation from home life sometimes and the benefit of working from home as well. So a good balance there. So I think from my role specifically it's going to continue to evolve and continue to be a growth area. From previous roles I've had where I've worked in technology and software development I think we're still such at early stages in cloud computing and cloud technology that there's so much technology that we're continuing to build from an engineering standpoint. And I think back to my 20 year old self if I was in those shoes today and I would absolutely be doing a career in engineering I think it's such an exciting space. And as a person, as a female I want to be at the forefront of the engineering team. So I encourage anyone if they're of a diverse background like you were the people that I want in engineering in the future because that's how you're going to build the futures build the tech, which is really cool. So perhaps it is, it's very cool. I do have one more question for you. What's your lens? What's next in cloud? What are some of the things that you think are coming down the horizon? Yeah, so great question. So I actually have a son who special needs and I think about some of the accommodations that we have to make for him today. And I think about the tech that's coming in terms of personal tech on helping him communicate or helping him read or helping him write. And I'm excited for his future where I think a diagnosis like his if I'd gotten it many years ago I would be very fearful about his future but I know that tech is gonna support people like him. So I'm excited for what it's gonna do for humanity. I'm excited for what it's gonna help us unlock for people that may have been hindered in previous lives. My mom grew up with a disability and she had to keep her career relatively low level because she couldn't overcome that disability without tech. And now that she has tech it would have changed the game for her. So I'm excited for my son and his future. That's what inspires me and now I'm excited about. I love that. My mom, like you, he's sure to succeed and fly flying colors. Veronica, it's been such a pleasure having you on theCUBE. Thank you. Exciting special series of women in the cloud. We so appreciate your insights and your time. You'll have to come back. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. All right. I'm Veronica McCarthy. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the CUBE special program series, Women of the Cloud brought to you by AWS. Thanks for watching.