 Radiant Church presents Radiant Stories, a collection of stories that showcase God's faithfulness to take our hopeless situations and craft them into beautiful testimonies of his power, provision, and love. I don't know you that well, but that's what this podcast is for. Our listeners, they really want those deeds. Usually they just tune in for the last five minutes. We just give the people what they want. We are here today with Sean and Natasha Downs and I want you guys to kind of give your own intro, but I actually have like a theme song that I was gonna play. Oh, great. I am on a riddering. So you guys, go ahead and introduce yourselves. Just kind of talk about how long you've been married, maybe get a little tiny snippet of background on where you're from, that type of thing, how you came to Radiant. Yeah. Yes. I'm Natasha Downs and I'm married to Sean and we've married for nine years and we came to Radiant almost a year ago Sean is the pastor of production. And... Pastor Sean. Pastor Sean. That's great. Great title. And I help lead worship and we help with the school of worship here. So we recently moved from Kansas City at the International House of Prayer. We were there for, I was there for 13 years. I have one little boy, Jackson and one on the way. Yeah. One on the way, people. One cooking. I have actually known Sean and Natasha for a while and I am excited to kind of hear the details of your guys' testimony of healing because I don't think I've ever heard it in full. Yeah, I was telling Sean, I was like, I don't think she knows all of it. I don't think I know all of it. So if you guys just want to get into it, however you want to, you can talk about how you guys found out the diagnosis, that type of thing. So like she said, we were married for nine years. So we were married young. So I was 20 and Tosh was 22, I think. I always marry up, it's better. You always. Always. You guys. Every time I've done it. So many marriages. So within the first month of our marriage, Natasha just started getting really sick. So our health started to decline. We didn't really know what it was, but it was basically she was itchy from head to toe and there was no like rash or anything. She was just like really itchy all the time. We didn't know what it was and she was not sleeping at all. And then there was a bunch of other weird things. So we didn't really know what was going on. So we went to a bunch of doctors and we basically went doctor to doctor about six months and every doctor sent us to another doctor and they, no one knew what was going on. They just kept treating us for different things and there was no success and like no diagnosis. So then we ran into a doctor. Not literally, we didn't hit him with a car or anything but we got connected with the doctor and he thought it was allergies. That was food allergy based. So a very highly restrictive diet, hundreds of different supplements and it was all to hopefully reverse what he thought was like a lot of internal infections and allergies and a bunch of stuff that was going on. So we did that for about 18 months and at this time Natasha's health is just getting worse and worse and worse. And so now that doctor's thinking this is not allergies because you would have already been seeing results. So he sends us to what he kind of said in a funny way, it was like a real doctor. I'm not a real doctor. I've been treating you for a year. Exactly, so we go to see a general practitioner. We believe in eating healthy. Yes, yes, yes. So he ran all of his own tests and they were all inconclusive. So we're about two years into this. I mean it was to the point where doctors would take her lab work to like conventions and like talk to other doctors. Like have you ever seen anything like this? I mean her lab work was just off the chart. So it was confounding people. We couldn't figure it out. So then our next specialist, immediately they admit her into ICU because at this point her sickness is so normal to us. But she's fevering, she's night sweats. She has a, we know basically a growth the size of my fist like on her neck. And it's affecting her ability to breathe because it's pushing into her esophagus. All this crazy stuff that, but we've been doing this for so many years that it was just like, well, this is just Natasha being sick. So when we go up to this specialist, they're like, you need to be in ICU right now. So we're just coming for a doctor's appointment. We're just showing them doctor's appointment. We don't have a hospital bed alert. Yeah, yeah, we don't have a hospital bed. We weren't prepared for anything. We're just kind of like, you know, I guess, yeah, I guess you do have like 102 degree fever. I guess that's, you know, for the last three months. You're walking around like a dead person. Yeah, basically. And so by that time, so we're in ICU and all of those specialists that we had appointments for for they all were in the same room at the same time. And they're all talking to each other. Like these greatest minds are kind of like, okay, this is what I think. Okay, this is what you think blah, blah. And they do tests and some biopsies. And so that was how we were to get our definitive answer. Finally, after three years, then they diagnosed her with stage four B Hodgkin's lymphoma, which stage four B is the last step. And then you die basically because it's throughout her entire body. So it's a cancer of the blood and specifically the lymph nodes. And it's now in her heart, liver, spleen. It took a test and it was just in her entire body. So that's kind of when we, that's how we found out is about three years in, in that moment, so. Wow. And first three years of marriage. First three years of marriage. Yeah. Whoa. Yeah, that was our, because it was all within this like, you know, how long what, while we were married before it, the symptoms started happening was probably like two days kind of a thing. It was just like immediately into our marriage. It started a little bit before we got married but it wasn't crazy. It really like exploded when we got back from our honeymoon. It was like, what is happening right now? So did you, so did you feel like you had maybe like very small symptoms before you guys got married? Okay. Yeah. Like I would be a little itchy and then all of a sudden when we got back from our honeymoon, just like. It just broke loose. Yeah, it was crazy. Can you guys talk about like, how in those moments of, I mean this is a three year period. Those moments where it just all comes to a head. It just peaks. What were your prayers? How did you guys relate to each other? Yeah, it was hard. Like there were a lot of days where we would feel hopeless but the Lord was really kind in the way that if I was feeling hopeless, Sean would have extra hope that day or vice versa. What I love looking back on that season is like we never stayed in those places. And it's something I'll probably talk about at the end too but like it was okay. Like the Lord was okay where I was and where I had questions and where I didn't understand like why it was happening but we didn't stay in that place. Like the Lord always brought us out of that like pit of like I don't get this. Like you promised like that we would have like a good marriage and like this is in sickness or in health is supposed to happen when you're 70, 20. And this is not what we signed up for. We fought a lot just because we weren't even mad at each other. We're just mad at the circumstance. Like we don't know why this is happening. So we're just angry and we only have each other right now. So it was super hard. Our prayer life was for sure tested. I just feel like I just ask the Lord for help every day. And I'm like, that's a valuable prayer. It counts. It was a real prayer and he really did help. I feel like we had grace when we needed it and strength when we needed it, but it still wasn't. It was just messy and hard but beautiful when you look back. I'm like it was beautiful. Like we really chose to love him in that place. And I would, we were at the International House of Prayer at that time. So I would gain all the strength that I could to go sing in the prayer room for two hours. And that kept my heart in a safe place too. I've just, I had to declare the goodness of the Lord. Even though I didn't see the goodness of the Lord in my life at that point. And like I can honestly say we're not offended with the Lord. We love the Lord more and we love each other more. And we learned to communicate and to wrestle through hard things together, not just individually, but together as a couple. So it was like intense marriage counseling. Birth by fire. But yeah, it's like we had to go through it ourselves. Like, and we had a few people speaking into us, but like nobody could really relate with what we were going through. So we felt pretty alone in that. Yeah, I mean it was probably some of the darkest moments of our time, but also, you know, we look back and like I would never wish this situation on anybody, but I'm actually thankful that we went through the situation because Tosh is a different person and I'm a different person than like going through those three years together. And there's like a depth in a realness that we know about each other and not about the Lord just from going through the intense crucible of conflict and emotional pain. I mean, it was a book of Job moment for sure. And just having just like, she talked about this, the raw intensity. I remember just hearing her pray, crying, but her prayers are just help. Like you can do this in an instant. You can heal me right now, help. Why aren't you doing it? And you have to really wrestle with like the goodness of God and like the faithfulness of God in that season. And I remember thinking as a husband, like all I want to do is fix you and all I want to do is help you and I can't. Why can't I do it and why won't you do it? And there was just so much of just more than just sitting in a class and hearing someone talk about God. There was like, I was in a trench and she was in the trench. Like we're in the middle of the battle trying to figure out who are you. There was a realness and a raw intensity to like the feelings that we went through. Yeah, so I mean, talk about how you started treatment. I mean, who recommended it? How much treatment? How long was the time? Yeah, so I had an oncologist that I was given and he was like, okay, you need to start chemo right away. You'll want to look into possibly like freezing eggs because there's a great chance you'll never be able to have children. And so we're kind of like, well, insurance doesn't cover it. And then my doctor was like, you cannot wait to do that. Like we got to start treatment right away. And so we're like, all right, we're just going to trust the Lord and see what happens and give that part of our hearts to the Lord. And at that point, we're like really focused on just getting me better too. So it wasn't like, it was devastating, but also like, all right, we got to like figure out how to get Natasha better first anyways. So started chemo and within two months, all of my cancer symptoms were gone. I was running four or five miles every day. I was working out. I felt amazing. Like I felt strong. I felt like my body was like whole and new. And the doctors were like, you must have people praying for you because we don't see these kinds of results. The doctors said that? Yeah. That's amazing. Like we actually have a whole prayer room. A whole 24 seven prayer room. It's called the International House of Prayer. Have you heard of it? Yeah. So, I mean, we were just so covered in prayer. And yeah, within two months, I felt great. I still had to like finish out the six months of chemo. We'll go once every two weeks. So when we look back at like the treatment time, it doesn't feel stressful either. Like because there was such a noticeable change, we were like, this is really working. And we got a phone call like soon after and the nurse was like, your cancer free. And we were like, wait, what? And so we ended up calling her back because the way she communicated, it was kind of weird. Are you saying that? So are you sure that I am cancer free? You call. She's like, yes, you are cancer free. Okay. And we honestly didn't even know what to do with ourselves. We're like, okay, we need to celebrate. How are we gonna celebrate? Like what do we even talk about? Because for three years, this is all we've talked about is sickness and the next meal that we need to make, that's gluten free, dairy free, soy free, whatever. And it's just been so consuming for so long. And all of a sudden like, this isn't a big part of our lives. So now what? Now what? Yeah. What do we do now? What do we do with our lives? Like, because we've, everything we knew about the Lord, about each other, about ministry, it's just changed. And it was just like, what do we wanna do? This is it. Did it feel kind of like a, like a second chance? Kind of like a new lease? Yeah, it did. Tosh was talking about getting a tattoo. She's like, no joke. I was like, wow, she's feeling, there was a few months afterwards that was a little nervous about what we were gonna do. She's gonna shave her head anyway. I don't need her. Yeah, you're done. I was just like, yeah, I gotta do it. Yeah, there definitely was. There was a relearning of even myself. Like, I didn't lose myself in the process, but my personal, I was definitely dumbed down. And especially with not sleeping, like I just felt like a zombie for three years, just kind of walking around, trying my best to like. Survival mode. Yeah. You didn't think anything past two days from now. You were only thinking that day. So it was kind of fun to, I feel like even now I'm still not in that place, but I think there, it's just a perspective that I've been given just by walking through it. It's like, all right, what do I wanna do? Who am I? Still like that self-discovery after being sick for so long. And I feel like I got myself back, but I feel like there's a whole new part of me too that I gained and you and Shawn gained with himself as well. So yeah. Parts of you that were just kind of unlocked is the process that you're through, yeah. And we have a child and another child. Yeah, so to kind of cap that story, like we were told you're not gonna have kids and then we, so we wait for a couple of years after treatment just to kind of actually have like our honeymoon for our first year together kind of thing where we can actually like do normal things. And then we took some tests and they're like, there's nothing that we see that could be hindering you from having kids, so why don't you try? So we tried one time and we immediately were pregnant and it was like a great pregnancy, like he's super healthy, he's awesome little guy and she was super healthy the whole time. So then we're like, oh, I wonder if it's a fluke and like, you know, was it just like a random thing? So we tried again and we got pregnant again and we're like, well, it's crazy. Like it's a miracle from the Lord. Yeah, he is, I mean, he is a living, breathing promise. Yeah, he's special. He's so special and that I didn't know that part of the story. I didn't know, you know, you never, I feel like that's something that people don't think about a lot is the infertility that often comes with treatment. And so that's really, really special. And then another promise on the way, that's so cool. And you guys believed the Lord for that and you just gave it, you just gave it up to him. You're like, you know what, we can't even deal with this right now. We don't even have the time, we don't have the money. We're just gonna give it to you. That is incredible. That's a testament. And I could like do a whole other podcast on like the financial part of it as well. Yeah, I was gonna. Where, I mean, for half the time, all the way up until the point where she was admitted into ICU, we were uninsured. So I was, it was before Obamacare, so no one would cover her because she had a pre-existing condition. So I was paying for everything out of pocket, all of like the natural dye and the supplement, all that stuff was out of pocket. And there was just hundreds and hundreds of financial miracles that like we literally did not have the money coming in, but somehow that money came in and paid for everything. And then I was trying to get onto like Medicaid, like a state insurance that's cause they were, they had to cover her. So a week before we get admitted into ICU, we get a card in the mail that says, hey, you're fully covered. And I'm like, what does that mean? Like anything the doctor says is necessary is fully covered. So we like go to the doctor and I'm like, let's do it, anything and everything. We got the magic card. We got the black card. And so that was then that's when they set us up with a specialist and then we get admitted into ICU. So then we start cancer treatment and then right after cancer treatment. So after six, so that literally a six month timeframe, then our insurance plan changes and it's no longer full coverage. And there's this premium. It was, and nothing changed. It was literally just that six months. It was a miracle from the Lord. And we paid $10 for our ICU bill, which is like her five days in the hospital and $0 for everything else. They even back paid like stuff that we had paid on our own pocket. They back paid. So like chemo is, I mean, I asked the lady and we went for a chemo. Hopefully she doesn't get fired from listening to that. I was like, how much would this cost? And she's like, we don't even know. It's hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars. And then, and I was like, so I was getting bills. She's like, oh, don't worry. She's like, there's some things that your insurance is not covering. So we're just writing it off for you. And I was like, do I need to like do something? She's like, nope. I have your name written on a post note just on my computer. I was like, please never lose that post note, never get fired. And so they just absolved all of our costs. And so there was just so many things that were just completely covered for all of our appointments. Her pregnancy was completely covered. I mean, it was just, we didn't pay a dime. We walked away with us with zero medical debt for three years of intense medical treatment. And so it's a major like milestone to where when we're like, we're praying for a car, praying for a house, praying for a bill, praying for whatever. And then I remember like, so in the moment I'm like, God, are you faithful? Like, are you gonna break through? Then I'm like, but you did it for so many years. Like there's like, how can I, like I need to remember like your faithfulness because it's literally story after story after story. And so we think about faithfulness through pain, faithfulness through trial, faithfulness through finances, like just all of those things. And like this was a major like milestone. You know, I know Tosh wants to talk about a little bit but there's this idea of the process we went through. Like in the moment we were always thinking about what's this unto? Like what like, is she gonna get healed and it's gonna like a bunch of people are gonna get saved or is it gonna be done and then we're gonna move into something but it was the process and the story that we went through. And it's literally changed our lives. And we realized the people that we can talk to and impact and there's even our own faith. You know, for three years we went through this and we've seen the goodness of God and he's the same God and he's not gonna change. Yeah, to somebody that is not even necessarily going through cancer treatment but is dealing with illness and like the hopelessness that you experience through a debilitating illness especially when you don't even know what it is. What specific prayers did you pray? What helped you get through? I mean, you guys said you couldn't think two days ahead. You can't plan anything. You can't go anywhere because you're just kind of stuck where you are and how would you encourage someone? How would you even pray for someone that's going through that? Pain is pain no matter the source. So I think what I'm about to say is applicable to anyone going through emotional pain or physical pain but something I learned to do is take my pain and turn it into conversation. I feel like a lot of times we feel pain and we tend to shut down and we're like, this is too hard. I'm not gonna talk to the Lord about this and I think there's some of that. I think there's some of we view God wrongly and so we're like, well, we can't be angry with God. We have to put on a happy face and say the right thing and have these beautiful, elaborate prayers and make sure when we come before him, we're well pleasing and that's something that he delights in and I learned like us coming raw and open and honest is what he wants. That's what he delights in and that's what abiding with him and him is that conversation and so my main thing that I learned is like I have to take that pain and turn it into conversation and I can't stop talking to him and I can come with my anger, I can come with my frustration, I can come with my confusion, I can come with my hopelessness and it's super messy and it feels ugly to me but the Lord is like, no, this is beautiful. Like I already know it, I already see it and I think so often we're like, all right, I gotta like just fix myself and make sure I look good when I talk to him and the Lord's like, no, like I want the honesty of your heart and yeah, just come as you are and I wanna carry this burden with you and it's not something that we're meant to carry alone. Yeah, so I would say that and even we condemn ourselves in those places and like you're not loving Jesus enough right now or you don't have enough faith right now. So when I pray for other people, I just try to remind them like that they're doing a good job and that the Lord's pleased with where they're at and you don't have to be at this certain level of faith for the Lord to break through and answer on your behalf. Like he really, he loves small faith and he answers small faith and yeah, I think he loves the honesty of our hearts and he wants it and so I think that's something that impacted me the most and that is my like message to others. Just be honest with him, he really can handle it. Like he's not freaking out because you're freaking out. Like he's very confident in who he is and he won't like mess up or falter just because your faith is faltering and it's okay to have hard days. So yeah, that's great. Well, thank you guys for being here. Yeah, thank you. For the listeners, these are two of my dearest friends and they have championed my own marriage and the things that they're talking about, their testimony has directly impacted my life, the experience that they've had and how they relate to other people has directly impacted my life and my husband's life. So I just want to thank you guys from a very special, deep place in my heart. I want to thank you especially for that and I'm so thankful that I got to sit down with you guys and hear the entire story and it's in its fullness and full timeline of everything and it's a huge testament to the Lord's faithfulness and goodness. So thank you. This has been Radiant Stories. I'm Ira Glass. This has been Radiant Stories. Click subscribe to get a brand new story delivered to you every Monday.