 And then my rock, you can start. Okay. This is the disability access advisory committee meeting for January 11, 2022. Happy new year, everybody. I believe that we have all six members present. Of our committee. Do we need a roll call? We do have all six members present. Yes. If you don't mind. Okay. So Tori. Here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sarah. Yes. Yes. Ruth. Yeah. Marty. Yeah. And Myra. Yes, we're all here except we're missing a person. Because we never got a replacement five months later. For. Xander. And Maureen, can you tell us. How that's going. I do not have a status update. You know, okay. Well, I let me, let me send an email. I sent you Myra and Maureen and the retired executive director of. Stavros Jim Cournere. I asked him by any chance with TV interest that he showed interest. And we sent him the link to the form. So he was going to fill it out. And he was going to fill it out. So after that, I have no idea whether he filled the form. Or what is happening. But he would be a very good candidate, I think, in my opinion. Okay. Well, maybe we can find out where the manager is on that. I know there isn't another town council meeting until the 24th. So nobody could be appointed until then. Pat, are you here at this meeting? She's not. She's not. Okay. She's not here. She's not here. She's not on the town council meeting, but hopefully the town manager will. Do something about our vacancy. Okay. We have a public comment period. Do we have a member of the public who wants to make one. Or two. There are no members of the public present. Okay. Well. Then we can move on to the agenda. Maureen, where do you want to put the item that you just sent to the committee? Oh, we could do that right now. Okay. You're going to do announcements, right? I have a couple of announcements. Oh yeah. I'm sorry. Did we pass that yet? Okay. So first of all. We worked. For years. With the. The committee approved a curriculum that. Sarah Barbara just. Created. Around disability studies. And it sounds phenomenal. So. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And I'm sorry. And it sounds phenomenal. So. She's the head of the English department in case people don't know. She is and. Did you have something to do with that? Well, the DAC committee. Did and. A few years back. It was during a teacher's curriculum day about the disability studies and the history of disabilities. The curriculum that was in DESI, the Department of Elementary and Secondary Ed, and then Ms. Barbara Just has been working on this for a few years as well and went to seminars and she's just picked out some phenomenal books. There's going to be a 10th grade course class and a 12th grade class. They're going to be different and the 10th grade class has started this year and my son is in 10th grade so he's going to at least get a little bit of it, maybe not the full, he's not going to get the full semester because he has a teacher who's retiring midway through the year or the semester and then he's going to get, I don't remember her name. Anyway, I'm excited. It's fantastic. We worked hard on this. It's here and it's for the rest of the country to take notice and hopefully it'll spread across the country. I'm not going to mix it. Tori, that's really great news Tori. I know that this committee really was such a strong advocate to get the schools to include disabilities like education as part of the school curriculum, so well done. I'll send an email to Jo, thank you, sorry. You can send one. I sent one this morning. Oh, to Jo? To Jo, but go ahead. Oh, okay. No, that's fine. That's great. I know he'll be excited to hear this. I just, I don't know exactly, I mean the articles on Facebook, I don't know exactly how to get it, like so Jo can see it. When you say the articles on Facebook, is that through the school system, Facebook page or? No. No. I shared it on my Facebook. I don't know how to, I don't know how to like get it from my Facebook to like share it with you guys. Where did you get it from? Ms. Barbara Jess. Oh, can you send us what she sent you? I don't know how to do that because. Oh, she sent it on Facebook? Yeah, it's on Facebook. I don't know. Actually, she didn't put it, I think one of her prior students posted it. It was in the Gazette though, so it's probably. Oh, really? I'm pretty sure in the Gazette. I think it's, well, I don't know, maybe I misspoke, but I thought it was a Gazette. I didn't read today's Gazette, but I did not notice it. No, it's not in today's Gazette. It was a couple weeks ago. It's a few weeks ago. Yeah, I'm a little slow on the uptake, but I don't go on Facebook much. And so I just saw it the other day. Okay. I will, after this meeting, I will poke around on the Gazette and I'll poke around on Facebook and see if I find anything I will forward it along. I'm sure I'll do. I'll write to Sarah and ask her if she can send me what they're going to read, what the information is. That would be really cool. I think it's sort of interesting that I worked there for 20 years and have been working on it for years. No one ever talked to me about this course. So I'm very interested in what they are working with as disabilities and what they're not. There are also some very good videos having to do with the history of disabilities, if they want to work off into the curriculum. Part of that is already embedded in the curriculum that is in Desi. And she is going to touch on that, but as well as a lot of other things. But the other thing I wanted to mention. Are you finished? Because I also have an announcement. I have one more. Okay. The neighborhood. I'm not sure what this group is called, but the neighborhood Thursday. I don't know. It's part of Amherst. It's this neighborhood thing. They put together a presentation with Wayfinders. And Wayfinders is now working with the town of Amherst. And you can get the home improvement home modification loan program. And the income guidelines are considerably higher than they used to be, depending on your family size. For instance, family size of one was 188,000. If I'm not mistaken, that's the beginning. So you're saying if you need modifications to an existing home to make it physically accessible, you can get loans or the grants? What is this? It's a 0%. It's a lien on your house. It's 0%. And you don't have to pay it back until you are ready to sell your house. So it just comes off of the sale of your house and you can borrow up to $50,000. Oh, that's very nice. Yes. So you can do it. Wow. Tori. Tori, I'm so glad that you brought that up. So immediately after this meeting at one o'clock, I'm going to another meeting and through a Pioneer Valley Planning Commission. And that's one of the items on the agenda is to talk about this home home modification loan program as well as other programs available for home repair and modification. It's geared towards older adults, but I'll find out all the details and if there's any other additional information. So the home modification loan program is for anyone with a disability and aging. I mean, anything that, yeah. So but you name it, they can do quite a bit. So that's very good. That's fabulous. Okay. So I have an announcement. Yes. The Jewish community of Amherst a couple of months ago established an ad hoc committee on how to make that congregation even more inclusive than it already is. And it's being chaired by a young man who has a disability. And you know, they already provide signing at the various services and stuff, but they're really interested in seeing how they can open up the congregation to become even more inclusive. So that ad hoc committee is taking a look at all of that and we'll be making some recommendations to, you know, perhaps keep zoom is a permanent thing so that people who can't even after the pandemic can't, you know, physically attend meetings or services or whatnot will be able to go via zoom, which they've been doing during the pandemic, but not before. So the hope is that maybe that will be one of the things that they'll start doing more frequently. That's great. And you said it, what can you name that committee again? Yeah, well, it's the I'm not sure what formal name they gave to, but it's it's the Jewish community of Amherst has established this ad hoc committee and it's on becoming more inclusive. I'm not quite sure if you send an email to to their, you know, their congregation, I'm sure they could give you the name of the ad hoc committee. That's really okay. That's great information. I went to one meeting of it and never was informed about another one. So I know there must be doing something, but I I sort of somehow I'm not involved in it anymore. Because of the pandemic and everything, you know. But no, it's it was a really cool initiative. And a lot of the people who spoke at the meeting I went to had medical disabilities. Right. And, you know, it wasn't you can physically get into the JCA. If it were open, you could get in in a wheelchair. It's very accessible. But there were a lot of people who have medical disabilities who can't go. And it was it was it was a much more broad definition of disability than we usually think about. Right. Because they acknowledge mental health disability as well. Yeah. Yeah. So it was it was pretty interesting. Okay, Maureen, now you can talk to us about the other kind of disability thing that you have. I don't know what that is the town. Thank you, Ruth. Okay. Okay. Yes. So so the town is starting a year long initiative. It's to become an age and dementia friendly community. And part of it is to understand how well our community serves older adults and people with dementia and to explore how we can work together to improve, you know, opportunities and outcomes for older adults and with people and for people with dementia. And I am working on this project with the newly hired senior services director, Haley Bolton, will be sort of co-leading this project. And we there is a consultant that the town has hired through a grant from from the Pioneer Valley Planning Commission. And we'll be forming a working group to provide oversight of all the work. And we'll be looking at, you know, existing planning documents, how, you know, housing documents, transportation documents, our master plan, our housing production plan, our ADA transition plan, things, plans like that, just to sort of get the lay of the land. And we will be providing a survey that to geared to older adults and service providers and caregivers and nonprofits that, you know, work with these demographics to get a sense of how they feel of, you know, how they feel about current conditions in Amherst and what improvements they would like to see. So there'll be a survey. We'll be holding listening sessions. And there will be on various topics such as transportation, buildings and outdoor spaces, housing, social participation and inclusion, communication and technology, civic engagement, health and community services and public safety. And so that will, until further notice, those public forums will be on Zoom. And it'll be a great opportunity to hear from seniors and the general public about, you know, topics such as this and for it to have staff there to listen. And so I'll be inviting department heads and, you know, and people in each department, you know, department heads or it doesn't need to attend to really listen. You know, the more I learn about different topics, I feel that it is a planner. I realized how everything connects. So ADA matters connects to everything. And so I think it's really important for staff to hear from seniors and the like about all these topics. And so, okay, so there's a survey. There's the various public forums. And I'll provide you as information becomes available about dates and stuff like that. I can let everyone know. So surveys, the public forums, and based on and then evaluating existing plans, the working group will assess, provide a community assessment. And our consultant has worked with various other communities in the Pioneer Valley on this project. So she's a great, she's our expert. So she'll provide us guidance of how to assess the town based on all this sort of information. And the end product is to come up is to provide an action plan of, you know, what implementation measures the town can do in the future. And be it, you know, fixing sidewalks, provide more senior housing, those are a couple examples. Updating policies or programs, things of that nature would be examples. And, and once we have that action plan, then we'll submit it to the state and to AARP to become a designated age and dementia friendly community. And so that is sort of the overview of the project. And we'll be holding a kickoff meeting on Thursday, January 20th from one to 230 via Zoom. And so all are welcome. So if anyone wants to hear Becky Bish, our consultant, probably do a more elegant overview of the project. She'll be giving overview of the project, provide a timeline, and explain what the roles and responsibilities of the working group. The working group will, will meet monthly for the duration of this year, perhaps in the summer, maybe we'll skip a month. I'm not really sure. Until further notice, all meetings will be conducted via Zoom. And so if anyone here on this committee would like to join, please let me know. I have a question. So age. So are you saying 60 and above or 62 and above? So funny. This just keeps on getting brought up. And I was, there's been a couple people that have used different starting points, if you will. And so then I asked, like, why does someone say 55 or 60 or 65? And we settled on that we're going to gear this to 55 and up. So, yeah, I'd be very interested to participate. Okay, discussions. Okay, great. And one thing I just faced. I will just insert this. You remember in the last meeting, you talked about lock boxes. And I get the senior center newsletter. So there was a paragraph there. And they said, call this number. And I called, which was like about 10 days ago, not a single soul returned my call. Nothing, no response. We have the same experience. And I can tell you, I have to find out how David actually got a hold of them. But why can't I think, Betsy and Phil came to our house last week. And because we already have a keypad, they said this will be the easiest installation. All we need is the number on your keypad, because we don't, we don't have a key lock. We got a keypad lock. So, but they did come and I'll find out from David how he actually got a hold of them, because it wasn't easy. Yeah, this is good information. So that's important communication, you know, they give a number and there's nobody that's silence on the other end. That's correct. You know, yeah, yeah, I'll talk to him. He's not here, but I'll find out how Yeah, Sarah, and that's really good information. So if you would, if and when you do receive a phone call back, can you let me know? And then I will reach out to Helen and from the Senior Services and Betsy, who attended the December meeting to see what their comments are. I emailed and I'm going to forget the person's name. I emailed. So at the last meeting, the, this committee asked, can someone, can a non-senior resident that has a disability, could they be eligible for this program? And so I emailed the person that is part of the SALT Council. And I got an automatic response that that person's on vacation right now and he will be back on January 18th. So I don't know if if he's the person that calls back or if it's Betsy. But this is really good feedback. So I'll look into it and find out what is if the phone, if calling's not the best way. Is it, is there an email or is there, yeah, I'll find out what's the best way and get back to everyone. And there was a, at least two column article about this lockboxes in Daily Hampshire Gazette. And then it was spreading to several counties and Hampshire County and Amherst was among them. But there was no information about how people can get hold of these, the communicate with the people in charge of installing these. So, right. So that's another thing that once we figure it out, should go on the town website, not only in the senior spirit, which had the wrong information anyway. So yeah, you're right, the communication, the stuff is out there, but that's right. Nobody knows about it. Yeah. Yeah, this is good, really good information. And actually, I'll talk to the new Senior Service Director, Haley Bolton about this. Well, you could have her look at the senior spirit and go make the phone call herself and find out what happens. I mean, yeah, it doesn't work. Yeah, so I know that she, so a full disclosure. So the Senior Services Department has been very understaffed for since maybe the summer. And so it's wonderful that Haley Bolton started with the town. She just started on the 3rd of January. And she's in the process of hiring a receptionist and I think one other position. And so I think that things might be much delayed until those positions are filled. So, but this is really good information so she can, you know, know this and if any changes need to happen, she can, you know, see it through. Good to know. So, Sarah, and you want to be on the committee. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, I'd like to, because I know from my experiences, what are some of the things I wish the town could provide, because I'm a single person living in a single one, a family house, not in the town, center of the town. So I address, I might address some problems that live on about people like me that live on the outskirts of the town face maybe, I thought, because I know some cities have some, some groups that they interact among themselves and I'm sure they don't all live together, you know, so maybe a network like that would be very good for Amherst. And I really would like to participate in that discussion. Tori. I'm interested in going to the informational meeting, but I don't know how much I can commit after that, but I am interested to find out how to go to that if I, I need to look at my schedule, but that's great. I'll send you in the Zoom information. Okay, thank you. I'm interested as well. I would love to know. I mean, any of us could find ourselves in a situation where, you know, we need that. The only thing that worries me is the part about the AARP. Before you set it all up and before we're the model community, we don't want people flocking here before we actually even have a downtown that has businesses in it. So I just, I think, I don't know, the AARP part is a little distressing to me. I'd sort of like to clean up the house really well before we put it out there, but maybe that's just me. Anyway, okay, thanks, Maureen. Can you let Sarah and Tori and me know more about when? Yeah, I'll send the three of you the Zoom login. We are just looking for one member to join the working group because we have several other people that we want to capture and stuff. So I'll put Sarah in as joining and Tori, and Myra, and Sarah can join the January 20th meeting. Yeah, because I really don't have the time to put in for another. Yep, that's fine. That's completely fine. Yeah. And, you know, well, what's nice with this scenario is that I, you know, am the staff liaison to this committee. So, you know, each month I could provide an update on the project to keep everyone in the loop. What about the question? Yep. Do we know what percentage of residents in Amherst fall into the category of 55 and older or, you know, or who have dementia? We do. I don't have it in front of me right now, but we do have that information and I can provide it at the next meeting. That's a really good question. You know, I'm always concerned when they talk about raising taxes that they're going to chase us older folks out of town who are, you know, it seems like big increases in our tax base. Well, 55 and over is a really huge category of, you know, in many ways, extremely able bodied, high income people to people who are not able bodied at all, who are quite elderly, who are, you know, and dementia is a whole other story, which really has to do with aging, but it doesn't have to do with most people who age. It only has to do with some people who age. So it's really a broad, broad, broad brush, and I don't know where you're going to go with it, but be interesting. That would be interesting to know how many of us are 55 and older in town. I always thought AARP was lowering the bar when they said 50 or 55 was retirement age. Wait, who says that? Some countries, I guess. I don't know. I can't afford that. Do you have any idea when that informative session is held? I have a very important meeting at 6.30 that day. So would it be during the daytime or? It's from 1 to 2.30. Oh, that's good. Yeah. And I will say it's going to be recorded and posted on the website. So if for whatever reason you're unable to attend, I can provide you but we would love you to be there when it's taking place. Okay. So speaking of committees, last week I listened to the inaugural meeting of the town council, the new town council, and one of the things they did was appoint people on the council to the various committees around town, one of which was the Jones Library Building Committee, and they said that they had already had a meeting. And I'm like, oh, how interesting is that? So I wondered if anyone on this committee heard anything since three people applied and since the director had expressed interest in having someone from this committee work on that. So I was a little bit amazed that they had already met. And so I don't know if Maureen found out more. But I wrote to Maureen right away actually that night. And I said, what is going on? So do you know what's going on? No. So yes. So immediately after our last meeting, which was December 14, maybe, it turned out that the first Jones Library Building Committee meeting was taking place at the same time as our DAC meeting in December. And then I sent the town. I want to say I sent that note out, Maureen, as soon as I got it. And people on this committee responded to me and took care of it immediately. Haven't heard a thing? Yeah. And so this committee is being, all members are appointed by the town manager. And so I did indicate that it was Marty, Elise, and Tori had signed up or Tori didn't. But I said Tori would like to sign up and join the committee. And the town manager, you know, wants to appoint residents, not necessarily members from advisory committees. So when the design is at a certain point for the Jones Library, this committee, as well as various other committees, will have an opportunity to review the design. And so that is why the town manager has not appointed anyone from this committee. You know, if someone, if there's a resident that has a disability that's not on this committee, you know, I could see that, you know, that the town manager could appoint that person or what have you. He just doesn't want to appoint members of advisory committees in general. So it's not to, you know, this is not just a, you know, decision just for applicable to this committee. It would be applicable to any other committee. So, you know, I'm thinking of like if the ZBA or the planning board or the transportation advisory committee members wanted to join a, you know, a committee, those boards would have an opportunity to review a design as a board, such as just like this committee. So That's a disadvantage to us because if somebody on this committee were on that committee, then that person could give an update to this committee as the meetings. That person could also have an impact on the design before we get a half hour presentation from people who don't even know what they're talking about that have to do. They need somebody on the committee that they can consult with that has, yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. He is not enlightened. We are all residents, by the way. Yeah. All of us live in Amherst and pay taxes to Amherst. Have they reached out to the community and asked for participation? Yeah. That was the thing I sent. Maybe I didn't send you directly. Yeah. I got a thing from the town and I sent, and that's when I sent the announcement out to all of you and within hours people responded and within a day or two people applied, but he isn't interested in anybody who's actually doing anything else for the town, I guess. That makes no sense to me. And a 30 minute presentation from the library, you know, like looking for a rubber stamp. Oh, you missed that. You see, there's a big step there. That is not what we're interested in. No, that's right. And can we learn who are appointed to that committee? The town manager appoints the members. Right. Can we get the names? I'm sure that's open to public, right? Yeah, they've already met, so they're there. Yeah, so they must be all there and how many people are there? I don't know. And what is the relationship to town? That's what we should find out. Like if there is X, you know, which committee is he's coming through or how is he, you know, we should know more about it. Well, obviously they're not on any town boards. Well, you know what? I have a kind of irky feeling about the whole thing because at some point, the DAAC, this was before maybe Myra, you were part of the committee, we weren't really very, very supportive of the whole project because we said it could be done in a smaller scale without going into further expansion. So maybe because of the comments we made at that time, maybe they think this committee is not on their side or something. Maybe. I don't know. I hope I'm wrong. But why did I bother? And Angela was very, you know, like I asked her for the link, I emailed her and she's like, oh, I'm really, you know, she was very positive and very, you know, here's the link, you know, all that. Oh, no. Oh, so she didn't say, oh, the town manager isn't going to appoint anybody who's already on a committee? No, she never said that. Nope. This is frustrating. She said me the link if I could apply, you know, that it was open and very, you know, a very warm little email accompanied it. I don't think the outreach was very good. Prior to. Well, they don't want us anyway. They don't want us. I mean, explicitly, they don't want anyone who's already on a town committee. No, but I'm saying overall, the people in the community with disabilities, whether on a committee or not, how many people did they really reach out to? Yeah, that's that's my question. Good question. Okay, so I mean, so if not us, why didn't they try to find somebody else? Yeah, or have they? That's what I want to know. Have is there a person with I mean, people don't have to disclose though, but are there is there anyone on the committee with with a disability either visible or or not visible and who can actually give some input? So maybe rather than put the whole load of this thing on Maureen's shoulder, since she's a town employee, maybe our committee, I mean, our group should send an email to the library director, as well as to the town manager asking for who is appointed of that. And we're that we're very disappointed, but nobody was contacted, although we had desire to serve in this committee and ask for an explanation. I can do that. That would be very good, I think. Okay. How does the committee feel about that? Yeah, I don't do anything without a vote. No, I think could you repeat that? Yeah. Okay, I move that the AAC send a letter to the library. Sharon, I forgot her last name. Jerry. Yeah. And the town manager asking why nobody from the DAC was appointed to serve in that design committee. Although several of our members have applied and showed an interest. And the second part of this is also we'd like to see the names of the people appointed to serve in this committee and their affiliation with the town. If I may add, yes, based on Tori's comments, maybe you could ask, did the town, those that are appointed to the committee, do any of those members have a disability? Or did the town reach out to residents that have a disability to join? That's a good idea. Yeah. That's what I'm getting at. I guess one thing I want to say is that puts a person in a silo. If you ask me as a citizen to be on that committee, I know about blind people. I know about low vision people because I used to be one. Because I was on this committee a long time ago, and because I'm on this committee now, I know much more about people with mobility disabilities than I would know in my silo. Just like I expect the people on this committee who have mobility disabilities have learned things from those of us who don't have mobility disabilities, but who have other kinds of disabilities. And so finding someone from the community to fill the slot is not really what I'm interested in because I'm interested in somebody who's actually thinking broadly about people with lots of different kinds of disabilities. And until you serve on a committee like this, you don't get a broad enough picture. And I guess if they reached out and they found somebody who has a disability, that may or may not have any value to what a lot of other people who have disabilities would need. That's what I was saying. I'm asking, first of all, was the outreach done? And second of all, did they put some thought into the fact that they needed to appoint someone who would be able to give input that would be of value? I mean, everybody's input is valuable. But I'm just saying there's a difference between being knowledgeable and and not being. I'm just, do you understand what I'm trying to say? And when I said what I said, I didn't mean to leave Marty out. I don't know if Marty has a disability, but Marty is here. And the expertise that she has, which is architectural. And, you know, they'll say, well, we have an architect. You know what, Marty said a lot of things that the architects that all these other projects hire miss. Marty knows a lot of stuff that a lot of other people that you can pay a lot of money for are going to miss and have missed. So I, you know, I think this committee has an incredible collection of minds. And for him to just say, oh, we only want citizens who aren't a part of the, I don't even know, that's just idiotic. I'm sorry. That pisses me off. I'm finding that to be, I'm very, very offensive. You know, I didn't apply to be on the committee. It's not about me, but I just, I don't know what he's doing. But I will, like Marty, did you have something to say before I say something? No, but thank you, Myra. Thank you for the vote of confidence. Well, it's true. It's true. I mean, it's true. They are architects and, you know, and they miss a lot. Yeah. And you look into some things that we face, you know, it's not only knowing the codes and the impact of that code and what it will mean to us. So when we bring our objections, you really understand. So it's very important, Marty, your being here. Thank you. Well, we all know that architects may know the ADA requirements, but they don't understand the nuances. I have experiences with this. When I lived in Newton and the temple I belonged to, I had a very well known architect to do a new building, but they missed all the nuances like having a, you know, a bisexual bathroom, for example, so that if somebody had a PCA or a spouse who was a different sex and needed that person to help them with the toileting, they didn't have a bathroom to go into because they just had women's and men's. They had a handicap accessible stall in each, but not one that was unisex, so that they could have somebody in the opposite sex to assist them. So those kinds of nuances very often the architects miss. No, same as building a ramp, you know, some of these people, they don't know the surfaces they need or, you know, they think they know, but they don't. Right. So I think to come back to where we started, so sending something, maybe we can modify the move I made and to include that disability cross disability section to that, and then officially seconded and then my volunteer to write the note that would be and also requesting to hear from them, not put it in the back burner. Recruiting in response. Well, my experience sending memos to the town managers that zero of them have been responded to, but I have sent them. I will add that I definitely empathize with everyone what everyone has said today and I have articulated some of and I share some of your opinions, if not all, and I have tried to educate, if you will, staff about, you know, the importance of diversity, equity and inclusion and that, you know, not all architects, as you say, know the nuances or the interests of design, you know, universal design or designing, you know, that, you know, that is respectful to MAAB and ADA regulations. So I do feel that often at these meetings, just looking in the eyes of these architects or even hearing their, you know, their comments that while they often say, wow, that was a learning experience is often the takeaway at the end of these DAC meetings is that they've learned something new because you have real world experience. You may not be architects, except for Marty, but you all have real world experiences as you, you know, as having someone with your particular disability. So with that, my only comment is from last week, last month's discussion about how the town is creating a office of diversity, equity and inclusion. I feel that this is a great topic for that director to discuss with this committee and discuss with town staff of the importance of, you know, of including persons with disabilities on, you know, on committees and projects and the like. So I don't have a solution, but I feel that I feel like it will be a great opportunity to have that DEI director be part of this committee to nudge people to be more inclusive. But and to not cut people off who happen to be on committees for the town because we care about our town. And this is why I'm on this committee. I care about the town of Amherst. I care about the people who live here who have disabilities of all kinds. And I want to make sure as all of you do, I know that we can live here as fully and as inclusively as possible. So why cut us off? Because we're on the committee. I'm not happy. And so for this, for this, not only the library, but now you're bringing up the I forget the acronym you just said. And so I don't want, I don't want the same thing to happen for that committee that just happened for the library. You mean with the senior services? No, they include racial equality. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know if that, if they have the same if the manager is going to have the same thought process in mind when he's appointing people to that committee. But I hope not. Well, I mean, he's hiring a that's a professional that he's hiring and he's hiring an assistant director. And I don't know if there'll be a committee that has to do with that. But that's a professional position who's supposed to be an advocate for diversity and inclusion, which I think usually cuts along race and class lines. But hopefully that person, those, you know, people often don't know much about disability. I mean, you don't know much about it until you need to. It includes disability. Yeah, on paper. Yeah, yeah. That's why we need that's why I keep it open mind. Let's we haven't even met the person. Let's not judge them and their their educational background and expertise. We don't even know who the person is. Do we know the person hasn't been hired. So I don't want to make sure more in that we are not used as a rubber stand, because that's always the feeling I got. Yeah, the AC approved this the AC is supporting that, you know, it's just how we are covered in the things. But to serve in committees to because I always feel like if you open your mouth and make it challenging, they don't like you. They just want you to be agreeable. That is always how I have been in my job. And that's where they think I failed, because I wasn't there. Yes. Yes, ma'am. Yes, sir person. So I think we we should just be free to express our opinions, because we I think among us we all we all have very valuable opinions. And maybe that letter should also be sent to the town council as well. Yeah, we can send. If we're if we're sending all of these things to the chairperson of the town council, and we're not getting any responses, maybe in someplace in this memo or letter, Myra, you might want to add that this time, we really hope to hear back, unlike our previous The last one I said, the last one I sent, Sarin had at the bottom a copy of this memo, you know, a different form or this memo in a different or an earlier form was sent to you on July 7. And I got no answer to that either. You know, in other words, and the town council got the letter. So I sent him a letter on July 7. He never responded. And then we sent that big one in December. This was all about the accessible warning and Marty's study and all of that. He never responded to the first one. She did hers after the first one. So this was an update, but I never got an answer to either of them. And it said you already received a form of this letter. So maybe we should say, Myra, what you might want to say is, we haven't received any response from you, Mr. Town Manager, for our previous messages. I wonder if you don't know where you're sending. Could you address them to this? Just make a sarcastic comment like that. No, I want to know. Because, you know, I mean, you might just say, Well, I just, you know, send it to the trash can, you know, or back burner or something. Please send it to this address. I will add that we don't know who is on the Jones library building committee. You know, there could be someone that has a disability and has a wealth of information on, you know, on various aspects and of disability rights and conditions and stuff. So let's try to keep an open mind. I know it's hard to sort of wait and see. I can get a list of the committee members, I'm sure, if it's not posted on the website, on the town website, look easily and see. But we probably need to move to the next agenda. Yeah, we do. So if you don't mind, if you want, I could send a letter or email or to talk face to face to the assistant town manager about who's on the committee and did they do any outreach of capturing someone with a disability that has, you know, a good sense of disability rights and regulations and whatnot. And if the answer is no, then we can continue this conversation at the next meeting. And I can send an email out to everyone what is responded. So try not to jump to conclusions just yet and keep an open mind. Well, Maureen, if it is said they hired this wonderful person with disability with knowledge of everything, even in that case, they should just say to other people that showed from the AC to serve in that committee should be at least should be notified. Thank you for your interest. But we are giving this personal chance to represent since you're already representing the other sides of the town, disability issues and things like that. I mean, it's not a courtesy. So they're just just kind of, you know, just ignoring, doing things their way. Okay. But, you know, I mean, this is, we want a very democratic committee. All right. Thanks. I'm going to point out the assistant town manager's wife has a disability. So it's interesting to know what he has to say. Yeah, talk to Dave first and see what he says. Okay. I mean, she has a very visible disability. It's not a tale out of school. Okay. All right. The next topic is what? So we'll turn it through something positive, I hope. Which is, let me find it, is the fiscal year 2023 municipal ADA improvement grant through the mass office on disability. So the town received a grant. We found out right before the holidays. It's for $76,000. And it is to eliminate architectural barriers found that the main entrance to the bank center, community center, the automatic door control is broken. Unfortunately, it broke during COVID. And the building's not really open to the public or it's very limited. So at the moment, it's sort of, it's a problem, but it's, well, it is a problem. Let's just say that. So the automatic door opener is broken. And the associated door has some issues. There's like a vestibule. And so the automatic door and the door itself and vestibule will be replaced. And and the landing that is, that connects the side, the existing sidewalk to that door is slightly at a compliance with the grading, just ever so slightly. And since they have to fix the door, the town will need to fix the grading of that landing. So that, that is what the grant will cover and pay for. And I believe there might be a sign that will be placed to indicate that that main door is a accessible door entrance to the building. There is a sign that indicates that now. Yeah. So in that work, we'll need to be completed by the end of June of this year. I have a question because I, it's, it always seemed to me like that door was a little bit narrow. So and the vestibule going through it. So I mean, they're going to take everything into account. Okay. I mean, that's just an eyeball. I mean, I'd never measured it or anything. And that's just my memory. You're concerned that they're just going to do a healthy rebuild of what they've got and a regrade instead of a redesign. No, no, it sounds like they're redesigning. It sounds like they're redesigning, but I want them to make sure that they're going to do the ADA compliant with on the doorway. And I don't remember that's 36. Yeah, Marty. I don't remember exactly what it is. I think it's 36 inches. Yeah, it's 36 inches. I think that door is 36 inches. Okay. Yeah, it is. So you know what was really handy? The last or maybe it's two years ago now, I kind of can't remember with the self evaluation and transition plan that was updated. The automatic door opener wasn't captured in that plan because it broke after the plan was finalized. But all the other components that are part of this grant were identified in the self evaluation plan for the bang center. So it was a nice easy way to say, Oh, well, this is already identified. Now let's fix all these things. And the width of the door was not identified as being not compliant. But we definitely double check on that. Maybe the depth of the vestibule is your problem. Maybe or maybe it was the way that the door swings out when you press the door opener. I think that's probably what it is. And Maureen, I kind of remember there was a discussion about the elevator in the building that it really was an old elevator and not a property or they were thinking maybe that need to be replaced. Has it ever been done or is it still the old elevator that's still there? I believe there's been one elevator replaced in the bang center. And the self evaluation plan identifies an issue with a nut with, I believe there might be two elevators. One I believe has been fixed. And the other one still has some non-compliances. I don't know if the elevator itself needs to be replaced or just sort of like features need to be replaced. So I don't know if it's just minor things or if it's the whole elevator. I don't remember, but I thought it was like a small elevator. It's not like at the banks, you know, where there's space for you to rotate and things like that. So this wasn't like that. Mm-hmm. I can look into it. I just don't know at the top of my head. Right. I mean, if it hasn't been because it's still being used that area, of course, not at the present time because of the COVID, but maybe if there is some grant available, maybe that should be in the list of things to be changed at banks. Yeah, no, absolutely. That's a really good suggestion, Seren. The thought about this grant application was well taken from the building commissioner, which was if you can't get in the front door, then nothing really else, you know, that should be the first priority, is getting into the front door. And then we can evaluate what needs to be updated. Or fixed inside, next, as we move forward with, you know, ADA improvements for the bank center, for example. That's the opposite of the fraternity house that we looked at a year ago. Remember the one that nobody could get into, but they were making the bathrooms? Yeah, okay. Anyway. All right. Okay. So, all right. So that's good news. That's great. That we're going to be able to do that. And then the joint capital planning meets in February and March pretty much, that's what I heard last week at the town council when they were appointing people, that it's pretty intense in February and March. And that's when they hear all the suggestions or the recommendations for funding. And that's when they will make their recommendations to the town council about what will be funded. So everybody puts in their recommendations. And last time Maureen told us that there was one there for the accessible warning signals and for the hearing assistive listening devices. And I don't know if there's anything else that's been put in as an ADA improvement, but I didn't know if this committee needed to have anything that we say to the joint capital planning committee about the priorities. I know Marty had said and I agreed that the traffic signals is really maintenance. And you know, it's true a lot of the stuff that's there is maintenance or lack thereof deferred maintenance. But I'm just wondering if we, the assistive listening is not maintenance. It's a true capital improvement. But I don't know how, I don't know how we proceed because I don't know how much money they've allocated to ADA issues and how they're going to think about this. They don't even, they haven't met, but I wondered if we needed to have some kind of a priority or a statement to them that would in the end make sure we got what we think we should get. So I don't know if anybody has anything to say about that, but that's why I put it on the agenda. Yeah, I think it's a very good idea to include it there. Whether to relate it or something. Yeah. So what does this committee think about that? What do you think we should let them know our priorities are? I think they should be all replaced with more state-of-the-art devices. Oh, no, I don't mean that. Yeah. I mean, somebody's going to figure out what kind of devices they need to be. But I mean, like what if they come out of it and say, oh, well, we're the assistive listening devices in this room, that room in that room. That's cheap enough. We'll do it. And the other thing, we'll just put it off where we'll do some of them. So I don't know how the committee, if the committee wants to take a stand on what we want them to fund. Can I just, I'm not sure whether this has anything to do. I just wanted to pitch in that the automatic, the traffic signals, the traffic light signals, some of them seem to have been worked on, but you can't hear them very well. If there is a lot of traffic or a noisy truck or any, you can't hear them. And you can't hear, you can hear the weight, weight when, you know, when they, when you push the button, but you can't hear when it's time to go. Can you send a memo to Maureen about which ones you're experiencing that with? Yeah, I think that's a real top priority thing, you know, because even hard of hearing people, you know, you can't hear them. Hard of hearing people can probably see them. That's true, but they can, they can say, you know, we fixed them and everything, but they're really not adequate at all. I have the time, I have the time I can't hear, you know, if the sun is hitting the, depending on the angle of the sun, I'm totally blinded and can't see the, you know, when it's time to walk. And there's no audible walk time. Yeah, it's not loud enough if there is. So anyway, that's my two cents. And that should be so simple to fix. Well, maybe not. Does anybody have any, any comments about what we should say or if we should? I don't know how joint capital planning works, Maureen, do you, do they have people come and make presentations? What, how do they do what they do? So at the last meeting, Pat didn't, Councilor DeAngeles had offered to reach out to Councilor Shane about the process and the timeline. I was just typing up the meeting minutes yesterday. So I think I even said at the meeting that I would remind Pat to do so, to reach out to Kathy. So I sent her a reminder email yesterday. I know Pat had a big meeting yesterday. So she hasn't responded to me yet. But I would, I would assume and hope that she's, you know, forward the email to Kathy. And perhaps she can, at the very least, hopefully we can have information by the, in time of the next meeting or maybe Pat, I could reach out to Pat and say, can you give us the info between now and the next meeting? You know, I can reach out to Kathy Shane and I can ask her. I mean, I know her and I can ask her what she, what, how she would proceed. But I guess the question is, does this committee want to prioritize anything that has to do with improvements that they would lump as DAAC and say, okay, we agreed to put X number of dollars. Maybe it was $50,000 into DAAC on a continuing basis. We got that far last time. But what do we want them to spend the money on? And do we want them to decide what they're going to spend it on? Or do we want to tell them what they really need to spend the money on? So I don't know if this committee wants to take a stand on that. Seems like we have told them some to some degree, but they're not really complying. Well, they haven't been told. No, that that group has not been told. Oh, okay. Well, I can speak about the ADA Improvement Fund. And so the fund, the annual fund is through our facilities department. I work closely with Jeremiah the plant who's the head of the facilities department. And so that money is in a way at his discretion. And I think that, you know, him and I collaborate. So we, him and I can certainly discuss with you when we have a project in mind. We haven't used the money as of yet, because $50,000 doesn't really get you that far. So we're hoping to, we wanted to roll over to the next fiscal year to have a bit more money to use on a project. Could that $50,000 be used to jumpstart the survey and repair of all of those controls? So the way that ADA Improvement Fund was written, at least for this, for this last year was that it's for our facilities inside or outside of a building facility. And so the audible signals is within the public right of way. So it's, it doesn't include that. I just want to get that going because right now the scheduling for that is we're not, we're two years up before anything gets done. And that's not acceptable in my mind. Or we notified them what almost a year ago, here's the problem. And there's been nothing done. And now they want to hire someone to, to survey and tell them what to do. Well, that needs to happen now. You know, I think in the self evaluation that came even before we wrote to them, there were very specific comments about all of those signals. So they've known even longer. We wrote to them in March, we started in March, but that they received in October or November. So it's even worse, Marty. So if these items can't like, for instance, the, the signals, if that can't be addressed, you know, between now, you know, now in June, it's, I think everyone is an agreement that, or, you know, it seems that everyone would be supportive of that being funded and are correct. Yeah. And then our members supportive of, funding, you know, assisted listening devices at the bank center. Yeah, but it's not going to get that far. Could you, so would it, would it be reasonable, would it, would it be reasonable that this committee sends a supportive letter saying that you support both of these projects. And you could list, you know, why, why you support that and, and leave it at that. That's not what I want to do. You don't want to do. I don't know. I don't, because then they're going to say just like I said, assistive lives listening devices are cheaper. Let's do that. No, but the, but the money for this year anyway, has to be used in a facility. So that would include the bank center and they were talking about the assisted listening devices for the bank center, right? Yeah. And so, so the ADA improvement fund is for, I guess I should have been more specific, is for architectural barriers. It's not for programmatic barriers. And I guess assisted listening devices is not why is that why who decided that our finance director. So how would the assisted listening devices get funded then? Well, they could be funded next year through that ADA fund. So it, the finance director said, you know, each year you could have a different theme for the ADA improvement fund. So he said, if you want to say that the, you know, that fund could go for programmatic, programmatic barriers or whatever that would be called, we could fund it that way. So the money is already there. So, you know, the town if they chose, you know, they could say that the assisted listening devices is through the existing ADA improvement fund for fiscal year 2023. And then you're, and then the planning department is requesting $30,000 to, you know, audit the signals and to replace any damage or broken ones. 30,000 is enough. I don't think so. I mean, I don't know, but I think it's more expensive to fix the audible. I don't know. So we have to have a theme every year. Some of the years it's going to be an indoor theme. Some of the years it's going to be an outdoor theme. I think it has to be what needs to get done. Exactly. I don't care about themes. I don't either. I think, I mean, we're not in charge, but the finance director went to school and said, you have to do things with a theme. I don't understand that. I mean, there are things that have to get done. And Marty said it's two years out if we're on the wrong theme for the year. So I don't, I don't get it, but I think there are things that are serious and they need to be dealt with like the bangs door, the bangs door, you can't get in. That's right. You have to fix it. And it is a big deal because what if they wanted to hire a senior services director who used a wheelchair? Yeah. Right. So it is a serious issue and it is getting dealt with. But there are other serious issues that don't fit the theme that need to get dealt with. That's right. That's right. So I don't, I mean, I don't, I'm feeling very, very concerned. And I know, Maureen, you work for the town and I know you're working very hard for us. And I know all that. And I really, really, really appreciate all that you're doing because we're a bunch of very outspoken, not yes people just like Saren said. And you're not the only one who's like that. And I think, I think we need to figure out how we're going to be heard because being heard seems to be a problem. Yes. If we don't fit the theme, we'll just have to wait. So what about Maureen and Myra? That if the finance director is the one who issues the, what is that, the subject of ADA funds, how they should be used, the mood of it, you know, couldn't we say, I think we want to change that approach and go with the high priority, like in this case, the signals have been brought up to the attention of the public works since so many years and nothing is being done and what is being fixed, like the signals are not even loud enough. So people with vision impairments cannot hear it at all and they'll find themselves in the middle of the street. Yep. So couldn't we bring some cases and if they need to be, we should just make ourselves available for a discussion for them to see that this is something we object and this is something that we want that rule to be changed. So where do we go with this? I don't know where we go with this because yes, like, you know, like the assisting, assisted listening devices could be the thing they choose to fund because it fits the facilities theme for 2023 and that's fine and I don't have an objection to that as long as there's another pot of money that's going to take care of the other need, which doesn't seem to fit the theme. So why don't you have an emergency theme? Why don't you not worry about, you know, I think that you guys are getting into the weeds in a way and if you have a letter of support for the signals, I suggest that you write a letter of support and indicate why is that important to you and why is that important to the community and then you could have another letter of why you think if you think that the assisted listening devices are important as well, have another letter and then you could indicate, you know, that they shouldn't, you know, compete one another and that maybe the town should approve both. So I would focus on what is the importance of the signals and why that should be funded, you know, today, but in this case it kind of seems like this is that this committee is being overly patient with the town and that, you know, I would really drive down why the town should fund this and then provide another letter for the assisted listening devices. Okay. I'm not sure they need to be two separate letters. It could be the same. Yeah, I could do the same. Yeah. I think we can reinforce that, you know, what they want to do is terrific, but it shouldn't be at the expense of other things that need to be addressed because they've been ignored. Yeah. This is not a capital improvement. This is a, we have in some cases willfully ignored the traffic signals because he said he turned some of them off and in some cases allowed them to deteriorate and that's true, you know, it's been a long time since some of them were installed. You can't get parts, you can't do this, you can't do that. I get all that, but it's not a priority. That's what my problem is with it and it is a serious potentially liability issue for the town and that might be, although I wrote that to the town manager and he didn't respond to that either. So there's going to be one letter to the Joint Capital Planning Committee about the things that we think are important and why we think they're important and why they're significant and even, and if they can't see their way to funding both of them through the joint capital planning, then what? Because I really do think they're going to decide that the assistive listening devices are much cheaper and they can check the box and say they did something and then it's better than not checking any boxes and I think that's what they're going to do. So one day at a time, one day at a time. So why don't you focus on the letter? So who will write this letter? Does anybody want to write it except me? Ruth, you want to write it? I just got too much on my plate right now to do that. I'm recovering from surgery. I've got all kinds of people coming into the house to help me. So okay, I'm sorry I didn't know you need to do that. So so anybody want to write it? Well, I mean I can offer my wrap but I want to make sure maybe you and I can brainstorm what should be the subject and I can work on a draft or something and then or I can work on a draft and send it to you. I mean we can't do the whole committee thing because that is an open meeting law issue but a minority of the committee is not an open meeting law issue. So I could write it and send it to you and you can send it back to me and then we'll send it okay. All right. I mean I think that's fine for two people to collaborate on something on a six-person committee. That's not an open meeting. Unless there is another person who wants to do it on their own besides you Maya because you are going to write the letter to the other one, Jones Library. Well the other one, Maureen decided she was going to talk to Dave Zomek and find out. Yeah before we write the letter you were going to write back to us and let us know. Right. I work as the assistant town manager. Yeah. I have another meeting to attend in a few minutes. So if we want to approve minutes. Oh no there was one more thing about the Pomeroy. They have not come to us right? He has not come to you about wanting to come here? Not yet. Okay we need to hound him. We need to make sure that he's going to do it. I did send recommendations so you know I did contact the person that I know who has some expertise and she gave me the name of an organization that has more expertise than she does and that I sent those to Maureen and she sent those to Guilford and hopefully Guilford will do something with them. I don't know how to find out if he will but hopefully he will and I don't know how to check that to find out. I think we'll have to table the minutes till next meeting because it's almost one. Okay the minutes are magnificent I have to say. Yes they were good. They are really unbelievably good minutes. Thank you so much for doing that. I could never do that. They're really great. So do we want to approve them by acclamation or does anybody have anything to say about them? I thought they were fine. They're fine. Yeah fine. Yeah let's just approve the minutes. Can we approve the minutes by acclamation? Meaning does anyone disapprove of approving the minutes? So then we can assume that everybody approves of sending the minutes. So I would say that's fine. So we have minutes. Great. Okay. Okay really thank you for those. They're really award-winning minutes. I've never you know I'm quite serious. They are they are really excellent. You're great. Yeah. All right. Take care everybody. Okay. February 8th. February 8th. February 8th. Okay. Everybody stay warm. We're half over. Okay bye. Bye. Bye.