 Good afternoon. Let's begin. My name is Simon Evenett and I'm the founder of the Singhalen Endowment for Prosperity through Trade. So I guess you can understand where I come down on globalization and how it should go forward. But here we have a task. The forum has asked us to explore the different ways in which global commerce is evolving. And I think one of the things I've noticed is that when you go to different geographies or you listen to people from different backgrounds, people see the evolution of international trade, finance, investment very differently. And I think what we need to be able to do in this panel is try and unpack this from a different perspective, drawn from both the public sector and the private sector. We have on this panel, we have five other speakers and I will try and introduce them in turn. First we have Minister Eden from Nigeria, the Finance Minister. Welcome. Second we have Secretary General Greenspan, Rebecca from UNTAD. Welcome. And then we have, we have Jakob Schnauzholm, who is the CEO of Rio Tinto. Welcome. And then we also have Marcelo Clare, who's Vice-Chair of Stein. I hope I've got that right. Sheen. Sheen. That's right. And then lastly, but not least, we have Professor, sorry, President Lewis from the US Ex-Im Bank. Welcome. This is Lewis. Very good. So our job has been broken down into the following following three parts. We are often told that the world trading system is fragmenting and that this is a very bad thing. I think the first thing we want to do is to explore whether there are any upsides or downsides to fragmentation. Is it all bad? Could there be opportunities here for certain countries or for certain firms or for certain sectors? Secondly, for the colleagues from the public sector, we could ask the question, how should countries position themselves in an era of fragmentation? And then to our colleagues in the private sector, how is fragmentation altering your operations? Is it making you rethink the strategy, fundamental corporate strategy of your organization? Help us understand how you're reacting to fragmentation. So these will be the first sort of questions. And then after each speaker, I will have a specific follow-up question for them. And then we will turn over to the audience. So let's begin then with Minister Edum. Please, your introductory remarks. Thank you very much, Simon. I think we now have, as you say, fragmentation of the world trading system. We all know the gains from international trade. And basically, as a result of COVID and all the other sort of trouble spots that we have in the world now, we do have a pushback from globalization and what I would call a regionalization of trade and trading blocks. And one of the most important for us in Africa, of course, is the Africa Continental Free Trade Area Agreement in 2019. That is 1.3 billion people and it's worth about $3.5 trillion. It's very important for us. But at the same time, we do want to benefit from this, what I would call a regionalization of trade in the sense that production is now being brought closer to the consumer. And we have in Nigeria a large market where one of the largest economies in Africa. And we do have a large domestic market. And I think we want to benefit from the onboarding, I would say, of production. So rather than bringing it across the miles, basically producing locally. And so I'm speaking to foreign direct investment. We see that within the context of what's going on now, our push for development is through foreign direct investment. And we think this is a good time for that. Notwithstanding that we do have a regional customs union, a regional tariff area, which is the African Continental Free Trade Area. So thank you for bringing in the regional perspective, because I was going to follow up with you about this. But since you mentioned the critical importance of FDI, what are you doing differently in terms of attracting FDI than you might have done in the past now that we're in this era of fragmentation? Well, I'm not sure it's what we're doing differently, but I mean, we're doing with more alacrity. And that is stabilizing the economy for investors. Essentially, we're trying to get the economy growing again, get inflation down, get the exchange rate stable. And of course, that gives us a chance to bring down interest rates. And so domestic and foreign investors have that opportunity to use what is a relatively sophisticated domestic market as part of their financing in addition to the equity they bring in. So our emphasis, as a result of the environment that we have now, I think our emphasis is to focus even more on what the investor needs and to deliver it to them, because that is our path to growth, that's our path to development. Thank you, Minister. Rebecca, you have a unique perch looking across developing countries from your larger organization in Geneva with a wonderful staff. How do you see fragmentation altering the opportunities and what pitfalls does it provide for emerging markets? Let me go the way that the minister already said. But let me say, don't we have enough problems like to enter into a fragmented world? Do we need this really? We have to preclude that, avoid that at all costs. I think that there is no need for us to enter into a fragmented world that it will hurt us. It will hurt the specialty developing countries. We cannot deal with the rules of one system. We will have to deal with the rules of two systems or more systems. It's really crazy. I think that we have to commit again to multilateralism to one system and make it work. In that sense, this is, I think, a very important message. My second message is that I agree with the minister that I am not sure we are in a globalizing era. It doesn't look like, from many of the indicators that I see, what I can say is that we are going like from what we call hyper-globalization to something that now we are calling polyglobalization. It's more decentralized. You have more centers and peripheries around the world. And there is a push for regionalization. Yes. And I think that the push for regionalization could be actually a very good thing in the sense that if we think about regionalization, not as getting away from global trade, but as being more effective in participating in global trade, if we design it in that way, I think that regionalization and decentralization of the supply chains can be a huge opportunity, really, for the developing countries. It's a huge opportunity for Africa. I say, being Latin American, that I am envious. You know, you don't see the same energy and dynamics in Latin America that I would like to see in terms of integration and convergence. I think that it's a great opportunity for Africa, and I think that it has been an opportunity for many other countries. Mexico is benefiting from the decentralization of supply chains, and actually the emerging big economies of the developing world are doing quite well. So I'm going to put a fly in the ointment, because you put a fly in the ointment recently in the Financial Times when you gave an interview saying that you were a little bit worried about how well-intentioned moves to try and facilitate the transition to a low-carbon economy could be creating problems for developing country exporters. Could you help amplify these concerns here and link it to this theme of fragmentation, please? Yeah. Well, I think that we are having an excess of unilateral regulations, and that is very difficult for us to navigate. You know, the private sector of the developing country cannot navigate these 83 different regulations with respect to the environment. I am referring to the environment, and there are regulations about other things on top of it. So how do you navigate such a complex world? I would like really to strengthen multilateral decisions. We need one system, and we need to strengthen multilateralism, and in that sense we have to support the dialogue and the consensus building in the WTO. MC-13 is coming around the corner in three weeks. I think that that is very important, but the unilateral action with good intentions, but it's hurting us. It's hurting the developing countries, and we have to be conscious of that. And you know, we say in Spanish I think that probably there is the same in English that the road to heaven is paved with good intentions. You know, let's have a dialogue, and let's see what hurts us, and maybe the intention won't be over the objective of the measure and this excessive, you know, unilateral regulation. It will really achieve the opposite, because if you have to overcome an obstacle and you don't have the means to become sustainable, so you will go the other way, yes? You will do it even worse and even cheaper to be able to compete. So I think that we have to be smart, that trade has to be part of the solution for a sustainable world. I am all for it, but it has to be multilateral. Well that's a very clear message, and your emphasis on unilateralism makes me think that maybe we've gone from hyper-globalisation to hyper-statism, but we can come back to that thought. Jacob, you run a company which has to think in terms of decades. So how do these trends or these emerging trends affect your thinking? Yeah, thank you. It's a very good question, because yes, we can all look at the statistics from last year and see that the growth of global trade was very low, but I believe that we are living in, yes, a very volatile world, but also a very opportunity-rich world. And if you look back in history, when the world sets on a new development path, just look at how Europe rebuilt itself after the Second World War. Right now, the energy transition really starts happening. When that is happening, new supply chains arises and new trade patterns. So it's also a little bit like, is trade going the one way or the other way, de-globalisation? I don't know. I think trade is never static. So I think trade growth will come from something else tomorrow than what it came from in the past. I believe the energy transition is a very, very big physical change, building a whole new energy system to the world, and it will require some massive supply chains. And if we start with where my business comes from, it starts with mining. We are probably the best example of something that has to be traded, because you just don't have the geology where the consumption happens. So you have to move things from where the geology is to where the products are needed. I believe, for example, that a number of developing countries, particularly in a place like Africa, has got huge opportunity to be part of this supply chain, starting with mining, but could also be processing, and that will create new trade patterns. Now let's dig a little deeper if we can, Jakob, here. We also see a number of countries using export bans, local content requirements, which possibly complicate your operations. How do you navigate that risk if it is a risk? Yeah, I have to say sometimes the regulation is impossible. I spoke to another company the other day that bragged about having 50 full times people trying to understand the rules around IIA, and I don't have that. I do think though that common sense prevail over the long term, and I do think that what I was talking about, there is a mega trend around the energy transition, and then there's a little bit about where can you source battery materials to in a couple of years, et cetera, but it doesn't change the overall direction. But I do think there's a lot of inefficiency coming in when there's too much regulation, because as you rightly say so, you will have to get into a lot of regulations and start actually making suboptimal shipping of products, but that's a little bit the world we are living in. I will though go back to the point of, yes, it's a volatile, tensious world we live in, but it's opportunity rich, and I think the opportunity far outweighs the problems. Thank you. So let's take another private sector perspective from Marcello. The company your vice chairman of is absolutely well known for operating amazingly efficient supply chains. How are you coping with this new world, brave new world? Yeah, so I assume everybody knows Shane in the audience, right? Raise your hand if you do, and if you don't, it's fine. Okay, so most people do. Maybe I'll give you a little story, and for the people that don't know, so Shane is a company that's over a decade old, and what we do is we're the largest undemanded tailor to the fashion industry, and we're very well known for capability to design what customers want, and not to have merchants or buyers try to figure out what customers want. So we just basically take the feedback from customers, and we're able to design and manufacture thousands of products every day, and deliver those products to over 160 countries all over the world, and we do it at a fast pace in which we can design and manufacture products in many cases in less than seven days. That has allowed us to be one of the fastest growing companies for time, and probably the largest disruptor to the retail and fashion industry. We like to call ourselves an undemanded e-tailer, meaning that based on customer needs, we're able to ship the product. I like to think of a supply chain in three different factors. First is the creation or content or design of products, and we're huge believers that in this case we love a fragmented world, where we can provide the power to creators all over the world. We have thousands of creators who basically they have the ability to design a product, and they don't need to worry anymore about manufacturing, about selling it, about procuring fabrics or procuring clothes. We basically do that. They focus on what they're best in the creator economy in terms of designing a specific product, and we take it from there on, and we're in a push to try to get many, many more of thousands of designers because they understand what customer wants and allows to react to customer needs faster. Our supply chain is well known because we utilize the platform. We don't own any factories. We basically outsource the manufacturing to small and medium businesses who are coming to our technology stack, and we're able to see their capabilities, what fabrics they have in stock, what tools do they have, and what's going to be their capacity to manufacture, and this has traditionally been China-based. As a matter of fact, if you go back two years back, 100% of our supply chain was China-driven, and we've come to realization that in order to even serve our customers better and faster, we have started to move our supply chain to different countries. We made a commitment to open 2,000 factories in Brazil, so we can get closer to our Brazilian customers. We're opening factories in Turkey, in India, and you can assume that we're going to continue to open those factories. And unlike you don't open a factory, you basically go to factories that exist today, mainly small and medium businesses, who they learned how to operate in the digital world and were able to ship, but I envision a future in which we would have factories in many places around the world because this allows us to serve our customers faster in a more efficient way, and we're able to even react faster to what their needs are. So in this case of our business chain, we love the fact that we can have fragmented creators and fragmented manufacturing because at that point in time, we've seen what can happen when you have one supply chain or when you have dependence on one country, and you can see today, thank God, we're not suffering what is going on today in the world of the current problems that other companies have. A very interesting response to the recent concerns about over dependence, interesting. Perhaps you could share with us, since your business is so data-based, we've had a lot of regulations in the digital space to do with transferring data. Principally it's been about personal data, but increasingly now regulators are talking about transferring, having rules on transferring business related data. Would that have implications for your supply chains and the efficiency with which they work? I mean it does in the sense that we need to respect all regulations or rules or laws to a specific country, but if you think our business is from a data perspective, it's relatively simple. You know, specific customer data, we know their name, we know their address, and we know the order that they place, and it's limited to being kept out in a centralized place. What is unique about the data is we're able to see customer trends. I mean and that one, I mean we're able to see trends, it's all pretty much anonymized, and based on those trends that we're seeing is what allows our supply chain to react at a faster speed than anybody else, and I think that's our competitive advantage. But as it relates to data, specific customer data, which is everybody's concern in this case, that data that's not shared, it's not sold, is basically the only data that we have is, hey, what are you ordering, what's your address, and what is probably the size of your clothes, and that's it. Thank you. President Lewis, you are tasked with helping American exporters and firms make the most of this fragmenting world. How is your view of the role of the XM Bank changing under these circumstances? Well, first of all, it is definitely changed tremendously, and I think it started in 2019 when Congress reauthorized XM and said that it wanted us to focus on four additional key areas. XM is an independent federal agency. We're open in all sectors, and we have a lending cap of about $135 billion, which was the largest XM had ever been awarded by Congress. We've spent north of about $35 billion, and we have another $100 billion that we need to deploy. The four areas that Congress said they wanted us to work on was to focus on was small business. So it's interesting to hear him talk about what he's doing in getting closer to his customer because we know those are going to be a lot of small businesses that can help fuel the workforce, the work that they're going to be doing. They asked us to make more financing available in Sub-Saharan Africa. They asked us to make more financing available in the transformational export areas, everything from the semiconductor's AI quantum computing and the like. And then they asked us to make more financing available in the renewable energy, energy efficiency, energy storage space. I put those out there because what we have seen over the last several years, and it's starting out even in 2024 the same, the trend is when we're working with other export credit agencies, these are the same priorities that they have. So things may be fragmented, but when countries that we're working with want to band together, these are just some of the high priority sectors that they're focusing on, or high priority, whether it's from a regional or a sectoral basis. When you say over the last 2023, we signed over 20 co-financing agreements. We signed seven memorandums of understanding. And that was with everyone in, everyone from APEC countries, G7, G20, those in the Indo-Pacific and the like. What we're finding out is that the collaboration, whether it's bilaterally or multilateral, it laterally is really what our watchword going forward is. No one wants to go it alone. Some, if you're going to be investing in some of these high, in these new technologies, if you're going to be investing in regions that may be a little bit more risky, people want to spread the risk. And the way they want to do that is they want to band and go together. But we also know that one government agency can't do it alone. That's why we work in a whole of government perspective, whereby whether it is our development agency, our trade agency, our commerce department, and XM, all of us working together in order to support American businesses, but also the foreign buyers who want to purchase the goods and services of the U.S. The other thing is that XM is a jobs agency. So when we're out here talking with our counterparts and we're out here talking with different ministries, everyone is concerned about their workforce. Everyone is concerned about the future. So we can't just talk about the jobs we want to create in the U.S. We really have to be talking about the commonality and the values that we all share in order to push our economies forward so that we can all continue to grow. And that's why we have to talk about whether it's jobs in whether it's north, south, east, or west. We have to talk about the job that we're creating in each other's country. So thanks for that overview. And it's interesting you say one of the four priorities is trying to support exports and integration in sub-Saharan Africa. Since we have the minister here, maybe you could help us understand how you're doing that, how you're fulfilling that congressional mandate. Well actually, we're very good news to share at the end of this year. One of the things, we funded one of the largest solar deals that XM had ever done in our history. It was $907 million in Angola. That was a project that came to us through the private sector, but definitely supported and very much a part of the sovereign government. And so it really was, I see, we saw a very big public-private partnership on a very bankable project. And so when you, funding that level of a transaction, sent a signal to the market, one that we were in the market, but also that we had the ability to fund transactions of that size in sub-Saharan Africa. We've had a long history at XM of working in sub-Saharan Africa, but in this particular instance, it went a long way for our mandate to have a focus, for us to have a focus on it, but also when the G7 leaders met and President Biden met with them and they talked about the funding of infrastructure projects, one of the things that was very critical was of the four pillars, whether it was gender and digital and health care, health services and biomedical, but also renewables. And so to be able to have our own congressional mandate be pointed directly at us to do more in countries in sub-Saharan Africa, also having G7 leaders, as well as in so many of these other countries that we have visited, are now trying to have a big focus on doing the work in sub-Saharan Africa, and they don't want to go alone. Everybody wants to learn and understand how to do these transactions, and they want to be right there in partnership with the African country in order to do it. Well, maybe the minister, you could help us understand about how these partnerships play out, as seen from your perspective, and the development priorities of Nigeria. Thanks very much, Simon, and that was very good news, but I think that really I align with Jacob that it is opportunity that we are facing, and I think the road to heaven for us is paved with multilateralism and fragmentation, because it's in the regionalization of the supply chains that we now get a chance to produce more domestically. And at the end of the day, we do, for instance, as the Africa continental free trade area, we are looking to grow from $3.5 trillion now in terms of the size of those economies to $29 trillion by 2050. So that is a path to victory for us, so to speak. But at the same time, we want to build globally competitive economies. And for that, we do need the interaction. We do need the access to markets. I know Agua has helped in that area, and then we need that investment. Like you said, the investment in infrastructure, roads, rail, power, solar power, which is the way to go these days. Not only is it cleaner, but as we've heard, it's cheaper. So that's the best way to go. But I think so the best of both worlds has for us what we need to move forward. And of course, we have to be in a hurry. The populations are growing very fast. And we do need to grow and reduce poverty. And I think the opportunity is there both across the multilateral sphere and what we can do for ourselves within the region. So it's the best of both worlds that we are looking for. And I'm encouraged and I hope that she will come and invest in Nigeria, in Africa, to further strengthen their offering and reduce the risk of their supply chain disruptions. Thank you. I'm sure that's an invitation there for you, Marcelo. He got it. Yeah, go please. Just a quick comment. I mean, it's highly relevant to say this and thing because the one thing takes the other. So a very good example. In the recent weeks, you might have read that Rio Tinto with Chinese partners are developing a major iron ore project in Guinea. And that iron ore mine cannot be developed without building infrastructure. 650 kilometers of rail and a port. But that port and that rail will be multi-purpose usage. So first of all, you create a global supply chain that actually very high grade that can reduce the carbon footprint of doing steel. But secondly, it will give a lot of secondary business. So for me, that is an example of an end. Yes. Please, Rebecca. Yeah, maybe a reflection. I am I realize that we are using the word fragmentation in different ways. Yes, because in a way, when we talk about the fragmented world, we are talking about the world that don't that is confronting each other. Each part confronting as where geopolitics is playing a big role. And here fragmentation has been used also in the sense of decentralization that I think that is very good. Because the concentration of the hyper globalization period was very bad for many of the countries. So decentralization is very welcome fragmentation and contraposition of blocks. I think that is not. And maybe there is something to reflect about this, because we are using the words in different ways. That's my first point. My second point is that this is a bit to see the private sector investing and much more optimistic. The question really for us is how to scale up. And when we look at the big numbers, at the aggregate numbers, you know, if we look at growth, if we look at trade, and if we look at investment, yes, growth is low in the world. Now it's lower. It's not bad for the big emerging economies. It's not bad for the U.S. and not so good for Europe, but it's a resilient area. But the rest of the world is not doing well. Yes, that's why we talk a little bit about the rich, the big and the rest. And when we desegregate the numbers, yes, then you get not such a good picture, because the rest of the world really needs a dynamic trade system and a dynamic investment system. And they are not getting that. You know, trade is not growing at the pace that it was growing before. It's not the engine of growth of the economy. Services doing much better than commodities. At least in value, they are not. An investment going to the rest of the world is not happening. Yes, Africa is receiving only 2 percent of the renewable energy investments of the world. Yes, in terms of all the foreign direct investment. So I think that we can do things to correct this. But for that rest of the world, we need the partnership of the international financial system and the private sector, because these countries cannot do it alone. And so we need a very strong multilateral development bank system. We need to scale up the capabilities of the multilateral system to crowd in private investment. So to take some of the risks or perceptions of risk that the private sector have and that doesn't allow them to invest at the scale that we need in these countries. So on that point, maybe I could ask Marcello, if you were sitting with the finance minister, for example, and you wanted to scale up in their country, what two or three things would you really want them to do? What's top of the list? So we work with a lot of government. As you can imagine, you know, we get called in by governments who, because of our growth, right, we have in many cases taken enormous market share in specific fashion category. And I think what I'll tell you, what's unique about China is we've been able to bring fashion available to all because of a unique, you know, ultra low pricing. And all we ask for countries, for example, I think a good example is what we did in Brazil. Brazil was concerned that they say, look, you're basically importing so many goods from China, and they're all going into Brazil. So we came to an agreement with the government that we're going to set up local manufacturing, that we're going to set up, we're going to open our platform so other sellers of fashion can come into our platform. And what that has done is has created, you know, hundreds of thousands of indirect jobs that relate to, you know, now you have, you know, you have creators that are being entrepreneurs that are building their new business designing. You have logistics companies were probably the largest, one of the largest customers of every logistics company in the world. We have created manufacturing jobs. And more importantly, whenever you're able to bring prices down, because usually prices only go down, we've been the disruptor of pricing, then you're making more capital available to citizens so they can use it and other things. So in exchange what governments do is in many cases they help us, they get rid of the red tape that takes into a print to those countries. We don't ask for financial incentives because, you know, we believe that our competitive advantage is in our unique business model. And we're at the point where we're locating, you know, what are going to be our manufacturing hopes of the future. But, you know, what we ask is for clear rules of engagement, treat everybody the same as it relates to taxation. And, you know, we're able to compete with a unique business model. Right. So I mean, again, it's, you said that the ground rules have to be clear, predictable, very much where the minister started with as well. Yeah. Perhaps we could take a few questions from the audience. We have about 10 minutes left. So is there a question from the audience, please? And if so, please tell us your name and which institution you come from. No. Shall I crowd? Shall I crowd? All right. I think Retejo wanted to come back. Well, you asked the question about when you're sitting with the ministers of finance, so what are the things that we're looking at? We're looking at prioritization. We need them to prioritize and they have done that because you have so many different ministries that have their projects that they want to get done. But when it has come from the minister of finance, they have come with the authority of the leadership. They've come with the authority also that they're getting ready to take these projects normally to their legislatures. And that way we know that when we're working with the sovereign, that's a project that's already been approved. So, and even from the private sector, then they know that these are projects that are at the top of the list for anyone who wants to be an investor or if anyone who wants to be a part of a particular project. And so that has, we've seen, I've definitely seen over these last year that that has become a top priority for these governments. When they come into Washington or when we're at international meetings, the minister of finance is leading those conversations, especially when they're trying to talk about the type of financing that we have because our financing is all demand driven. That's what our portfolio is all about. We're receiving an application one at a time. But at the end of the day, we need to receive the application. We need to receive. We need to understand the interests of the individual government so that we can talk about the tools that we may have in order to help get projects off the ground. Great. Jacob, do you want to put anything else on the table before I come back to the minister and ask him what he's been hearing? Well, look, I think the minister already have said that the right things. It's a number of other factors that sometimes holds back investments. It's actually not that much the friction in trade. It is about basically creating that partnership where, you know, we build together and we trust each other. And if there's problems, we help each other. When you feel comfortable about that, you can take in investment decisions. Trade tends at least in my business to be a little secondary. Minister, you've heard a lot of very interesting observations about how the private sector likes to scale up. How foreign export credit agencies love to engage. Any reflections? Well, I have appreciated very much the conversation. And I think, yes, global trade is down. The global growth is likewise down. But at the same time, there are still opportunities there. And in particular, the private sector are very clear about what they require. They require certainty of policy. I know in our own case, in Nigeria, all we've had to try and focus on is just giving that stability at the macro level. So you don't want the exchange rate moving all over the place all the time and particularly downward. So you lose money. And likewise, stability of government policy. So we're very clear and you've been very clear about what you really require for investment. And President Lewis, obviously, has seen so much. But I think coming back to the issue of global commerce, we still, an important yardstick of how good and how competitive you are is the ability to export. And we want help with that access to those markets. And just as Jacob said, there are some fundamental investments that you have to get right and you need in place. We have a very burgeoning, solid mineral sector. But without the rail, you just can't move. And so clearly, we're looking to benefit from world trade. We're looking to benefit from regionalization of supply chains. But at the end of the day, those big ticket infrastructure projects are something that we would really like to be able to attract. And that's what really will give us the basis for rapid, sustained, and in our own case, we emphasize inclusive growth. Thank you. Rebecca, I'm going to give you the final word before I do a few wrap-ups here. You put on the table the importance of the multilateral system for smaller countries. But then the other message we've had from this panel is that if countries get their business environments right, they offer stability. Prioritization was being mentioned too. That could possibly act as quite a lot of insurance policy against a perhaps geopolitically-riven, fragmented world. So how do you see the importance of the multilateral and getting the national stuff right? What would be your assessment? No, if the national policies are wrong, if you don't have stability, if political instability also comes in, even with the best of the wills of the international system, you won't make it. You need both. And the reason why I say very strongly that you need both is that we have had well-behaved countries that have done what they had to do, and they are in trouble because of the pandemic, because of the high interest rates, because debt did come then to hunt them. And it's not that they, because they took wrong decisions. It's because the international framework didn't help. And I think that it's important to understand this too, because usually we put all the, you know, the pressure on the country that is very important. If that doesn't happen, nothing happens. And there is a responsibility that we have in our own countries. But the truth is that the international system also has to make viable the national strategies. And even well-behaved countries have had trouble because the system worked against them. And Ghana is a good example. Yeah? Ghana, you know, did reform, had governance, you know, it was able to come to the markets and to the private markets. But they contracted, you know, expensive debt. And when the interest rates went up, they didn't have the long-term, you know, financing that they needed. And they got into trouble. And they are hurting. And so the international system has to come in to support these countries precisely because they have the right policies and they need trade and investment also to work for them. So to draw this together then, and thank you all for your contributions, it seems then that the message that a country needs to have a stable, predictable business environment with the right level of regulation, that recommendation is still there. In a more fragmenting world where there's a bit more division of rivalry, we still need key elements in the international architecture to be able to reinforce the incentive for governments to do the right thing at home. That's what I'm hearing. And I think I'm also hearing the fact that the private sector is very keen on engaging in terms of thinking through how to make investments over the longer term, how to multiply the local impact for jobs, for supplying sectors and industries as well. And I think I'm also hearing a very interesting story about agency to agency cooperation across borders to support regionalization. So thank you all for helping to paint that picture for me and helping to me to better understand how this global commerce is moving forward. Thank you very much.