 We'll call a regular meeting at 18th Common Council to order So would you call the roll please Bowman? Berg Bonnet Serta graph Laus Manny Montemayor Perez Rinflaich Sigali Stefan Van Akron Vanderwheel and Warner 15 present forms present Alderman Warner Thank Your Honor. I Move the minutes of the last Common Council meeting be approved and that same stand has entered on the record We have motion to second be forced at the minutes of the previous council meeting be approved under discussion Hearing none all in favor Opposed Motion carry Alderman Perez. Would you lead us in a pledge allegiance a pledge allegiance to flag The United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God Indivisible with liberty and justice for all All right, we have the Aldermatic candidates this evening and They will have five to eight minutes for speaking correct correct so Sure We want us Terry Cot will be our first speaker Terry could you give me your home address, please? 625 Fairway Drive, Sheboygan, Wisconsin And you will have five to eight minutes sir. Thank you. You're welcome Hello, my name is Terry Cot Now I've been actively seeking the seat for over one year It is indeed regrettable that this Is resumed under such tragic circumstances. I Was looking forward to next year to run against. I have walked the whole district Talking to any voter who will listen Now my being seated is in your hands and I ask you for that support I'd like to read my bio just in case some of you don't know me or who followed the last campaign I'm married wife Marlene We have four children and two grandchildren I'm a lifelong residence of Sheboygan. I graduated from local schools. I received a bachelor of degree of science from Business administration from Lakeland College I've been self-employed in the fields of business consultation real estate and construction I've been employed by several Sheboygan employers completing 20 years at the sea rice gold company Until they closed and retiring from the Sheboygan glass company in April 1961 I was elected to the Sheboygan Council. I Beat burn Mr. Clanky 35 year veteran Very unhappy man I Was re-elected two years later and again elected April 1997 To take the seat of James R. Schramm Who had been elected? There I Was elected to a single three-year term to the Sheboygan area school district. I Had at that time an agenda It was implemented. It was implemented believe it or not and I was allowed to move on I'm a Korean war era veteran serving overseas in Germany I'm a long-time volunteer and activists for programs for children with special needs. I Was in the early opportunity senator board of directors which became RCS and A long-time president of the Sheboygan County Association for children with learning disabilities. I Was deeply honored with a life membership in the Sheboygan theater company For 40 years of service. There are very few of those as many you may know That's a great honor. I was cast in the 1950s in the first Musical put on by a Sheboygan theater company of the icing and there's been many many stage crews many many casts and many many committees a lot of committee work since I'm a charter member of the local chapter of National Association of Accountants I've held many offices in the local Sheboygan Taxpayer Association I'm not quite sure that even exists anymore, but for a very long time we would sit up here and with the whole council Go over the budget line for line for line Now that's all gone by the boards with the mayor's budget and all kinds of other good things that are happening As a Sheboygan JC I co-produced and directed their first indoor miss Sheboygan pageant Doesn't sound like much, but we're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars believe it or not in scholarship and We had never put it indoors before because there was a bratwurst day and it was outdoors and I was instrumental and Leader in the revival of bratwurst day all too bad. That's a vote against him It was called German days and I was the producer director of that for the Sheboygan JC's It was very very successful the very first year and it's grown ever since I Served on the council of first United Lutheran Church Been a very active member in groups and committees Now I'm not sure There's specific can we ask is there questions or that's not So that's me I'm here because I love to give I participated in the fairs of the city all my life and I Enjoyed the last contest. I never Knocked on so many doors before Because it's hard to keep a breast of mr. Peterson. He wrapped on doors. I kept running across them And that's really sad Thank You, Terry Scott Leventowski Windows Scott could I have your address, please? It's 2201 Erie Avenue Sheboygan, Wisconsin. Thank you. You'll have my apartment number. No, that's fine. Okay. Thank you My name is Scott Leventoskey and I've been a lifelong resident of Sheboygan And I've been involved with some of the different groups in the Sheboygan area Right now I'm a volunteer for the Sheboygan County Museum So I've been spending time there for your holiday memories programs I've also worked with the museum with the education program that they have for the different school districts in the Sheboygan County I'm also a volunteer at St. Nicholas Hospital and I'm a volunteer for partners for community development and In all of those positions as a volunteer I have met many people of Sheboygan and Also of the minority groups in Sheboygan, so I feel that I'm qualified to work with all of them Little background on me also is that I attended local schools in Sheboygan. I Graduated from North High School. I Attended the University of Wisconsin Sheboygan for two years got an associate of arts degree there And then I transferred out to Lakeland where I Received a Bachelor of Arts degree out there My major was elementary education. I am a substitute teacher for the Sheboygan schools And my minor was US history and since that time I've gotten very interested in the history of Sheboygan I would like to be a part of that history Last year I had a book published by the research center in Sheboygan Falls where I'm also a volunteer on Charles Bourne and Bournes Park which used to be in Sheboygan and Charles Bourne Was an important man also because he was a second police chief in Sheboygan He was an alderman quite a few terms and he was a four-time mayor of Sheboygan and He was also a colonel in the National Guard Which got federalized so he saw action in Puerto Rico during the Spanish-American War While he was still mayor Another thing that I Would like to add is that I'm not running For the election in April I just want to have a chance to serve on the Common Council and see what it's like In case I would like to do it again in the future get some experience for now And I feel with if I would get chosen to serve for the three and a half months the two candidates who are running for the Aldermanic position would Be running on equal terms with nobody having an advantage of already being in office for a few months That's about all I have to say Thank you Okay, Jean Kittleson Jean, can I get your home address, please? 1716, Illinois Avenue Okay, thank you. Okay. Well Mayor Schramm ladies and gentlemen of the council and all others present here this evening Thank you for giving me the chance to introduce myself to you this evening Especially for those of you who don't know me and to thank you for the opportunity to ask for your vote To be appointed to the vacant council seat that presently exists in the third district the thwart of the city of Sheboygan My name is Jean Kittleson and I reside at 1716 Illinois Avenue I've lived at that address along with my husband John for almost 37 years I am a wife mother of two grown sons both married and the grandmother of five and Three of those five grandchildren are being raised right here in our city I'm currently employed full-time at Yonkers department store right here in our downtown area And I meet and interact with many citizens of our community every day Giving excellent customer service is a goal. I strive for each and every day Greeting and serving the public which I do at the store on a daily basis is a job. I truly enjoy I've been affiliated with and have volunteered for several organizations in our city I've worked on campaigns for the Sheboygan area united way both as chairperson and committee member as well And I also divide my time and give service to the Sheboygan theater company University theater and the Wild Center for the performing arts where I currently serve as the hospitality manager It is there that I worked very closely with Bob Peterson Preparing for many shows that have graced the stage of this beautiful facility. We have in our city I'm also a member of the John Michael Kohler Art Center and currently serving as a committee member of the mayor's special International Committee for those of you who don't know what we are We are a group of citizens who ensure that our relationships with our sister cities in Essling in Germany and Tsubami Japan are fostered and our hospitality also extends to any Visitors to our city who come from abroad as well as foreign exchange students who attend our Sheboygan area schools As I said my husband and I have lived and worked and raised our family here in the city of Sheboygan And our city has been very good to us Through the years we've seen many many changes and improvements, and I know more are yet to come I think exciting times are ahead of us I've always had an interest in city government and the time has come in my life Where I feel it is my turn to give something back to the community which has given me and my family so much What I do have to offer you is a good strong work ethic along with honesty and integrity I have a lot of positive energy and enthusiasm for plans and projects I truly believe in and I will always be a cheerleader for the wonderful things our city has to offer and Last but not least I would offer an open objective listening ear to the citizens who I would be representing Listening to their comments Concerns criticisms and complaints would be of utmost importance to me It would indeed be an honor and a privilege to serve with all of you our city leaders Whose job among other things I'm certain is to work to keep Sheboygan the great city It is to live in not only for today, but for generations to come Thank you so much for listening, and I thank you for your support Here on her could I ask a question, please? May I ask a question? If I could please Jean could I ask you a question, please? You state that you work full-time at Yonkers I had also worked part-time for many years in retail I know what scheduling is like. Yes, I know how it affects Things on a daily basis, especially things that's meetings such as meetings common council meetings committee meetings, etc Would your job interfere with or could you work around? So that you could attend the council meetings and any or committee meeting I could most definitely work around that Very very much. So thank you. Thank you Okay election for Alderperson Alderman Warner Well, thank you, honor I make a motion that the following names be placed in nomination for the position of third district Alderperson Terry Coth Jean Kittleson and Scott Lewandowski Voting to be done by open ballot and if more than two candidates are nominated The candidate with the lowest number of votes be dropped from the list and balloting to continue until one candidate receives a majority Second we have a motion and second before us. Well, that's your honor. I'd move to close the nominations First we'll take a vote on a procedure. Is there any discussion on a procedure? Not all in favor I posed motion carried now on that would move the nominations be closed We have motion and second before us nomination be closed under discussion Hearing none. Is there any other nominees? Hearing none all in favor of the motion Terry Scott Lewandowski zero Terry Coth one vote and Jean Kittleson 14 Okay, congratulations. You can Jeannie. You're more than welcome then to come on up and sit in a chair Before we get into the public forum I would like to make a few comments and there are a few alderman who want to make a few comments And then we'll get into the public forum So bear with me as our process of building a new police station continues the importance of Staying the course towards our goal of providing our residents with a safe community They deserve and our and our police officers resources. They need remains the number one goal The debate is about public safety and the emphasis emphasis. We put we choose to place upon it. I am certain About the efforts. I'm concerned about the efforts of a few people to cloud the issue and only further delay the police station from Being built one which we already have spent over 80 meetings discussing and reviewing 49 potential site locations To suggest That I have not been forthright with efforts of those opposed to the Sheridan Park site is nothing more than election year Politics and an insult to those who place a value on a safety of our community All of you learned a mr. Moose efforts by via a letter last weekend, which he sent directly to you. I Was never asked to be part of mr. Moose meetings nor asked to be present or asked to present any information to this council The only city officials who attended these meetings were some of the alderman here tonight Mr. Moose or mr. Grover or anyone else Has information to present to this council, then I welcome their attendance to do so I Value the input of citizens such as mr. Moose and mr. Grover and I appreciate the dialogue with all of our media outlets on this important issue in The end though it is my job as mayor to choose a course that is best for our city So we are back to the issue of public safety. Do we stand with our police officers and stand up for the safety of our residents? Do we value the safety of our children neighborhoods in parks? our consulting firm has a proven track record and informed us that the shared services we desire Can be incorporated into the site chosen? I am committed to share services as a concept that can save our taxpayers hard-earned dollars This project is a good first step in that direction The time for action for courage and for the wisdom to lead is here Rather than standing in a way Let's stand up for a safer shabuaga. Thank you Alderman Sugali Thank you your honor There are two issues that I would like to discuss in reference to the press editorial dated 12 1904 Number one is the Blue Harbor legal fees when the issue of the Blue Harbor fees without was out in the open The press felt the group was beating a dead horse because after the initial complaint that was filed by me And it was ruled. There was no wrong doing the group took further steps But to no avail this issue is now dead and now look who is beating a dead horse the shabuaga press The mayor city attorney and the council do not need to be reminded of the issue I am sure they all remember it well as do I Number two the group formed by the area of businessmen The mayor did not need to share the information about this group because first of all there was really no information to share It was all talk we on the council knew of this group as all the person Montemayors stated She knew this group also had been formed I was aware of the group because when all the person Bob Peterson and may I add God rest his dear soul Called me to say that the person from American orthodontics was part of a group who were opposed to the Sheridan Park site called him He stated he had property He would donate to the city for a police site and if I remember correctly It was on Penn Avenue and a site that would have been contaminated because had been a dump site This man also stated that if we voted for Sheridan Park, he would pull his money from the city I told all the person Peterson that he could tell this man that I would not be blackmailed into changing my vote This was an editorial that made me think twice as to who was not telling the truth to the people of Sheboygan The press or this group for the letter the council received from mr. Muth stated he wanted to make it perfectly clear It was not about the police site, but about shared services Facts about shared services and not just words would be welcomed My vote still stands with Sheridan Park site and shared service is a whole different issue Maybe the press should be more concerned with the facts instead of political campaigning Thank you your honor. Thank you Thank you your honor I Would like to publicly comment on some inaccuracies which were printed in the Sheboygan press Sunday by the editor in his editorial Titled mayor needs to share information with council and public First the article states that in addition to the citizenry support in opposing the Sheridan Park location We now have I quote added to the staunch opposition business leaders Michael Muth and Bruce Grover Unquote yet on Friday December 17th I received in writing an official statement regarding mr. Muth's and mr. Grover's position on the location of a police station it reads as follows Quote let us be perfectly clear our group is not about site selection our focus is shared services And both the if both these statements are true There seems to be a contradiction on behalf of mr. Muth's and mr. Grover's true intentions Secondly the press reports that the city had a handshake deal with the county concerning the future police station contingent upon a land swap it Further's charges that only after we got the opinion from the League of Municipalities Did I quote the mayor and the council do an about face and walk away from its deal with the county end quote? I take exception to the press implying that I a council member Made such a deal Further I would like to know when I supposedly sealed this agreement with the handshake If you will recall when I made that my decision for Sheridan Park I even questioned when did this become an issue versus relationship with the county? Finally to address the issue of the press claiming that the mayor has quote kept the information to himself and selected members of the council and quote I As a member of the council did not learn about mr. Muth's particular inquiry until the press release this information in an article dated on December 11th of 2004 To verify my claim and the actions of the mayor to sharing any Concrete knowledge in relation to this topic even mr. Muth and mr. Grover Apologized in their written statement, which I received on Friday Quoting that you may have learned about our group via the newspaper At that time of this at the time of the story. We were not prepared to inform you on our group's intentions We had not made the decision to conduct the study because we didn't have a clearly defined study scope or a cost estimate We expect to have this information later this week and quote It is therefore apparent that mr. Muth and mr. Grover were not prepared until this evening to make a clear and official statement Until this information is made public the council cannot take any action In closing I question where the press got their impression that the mayor is not sharing information with the elder men If there are alderman here who feel there is a better process to in which to convey information I would hope you would explore a more dignified and professional manner in reaching a conducive solution Not a means through editorial commentary. Thank you Yeah Thank you your honor, I also got that letter from mr. Muth and I was glad to see that that's Group were not involved with the site location shared services the next day I Looking over that letter again, and I get a phone call from a local businessman who I don't know if he's in that group but He was arguing with me back and forth and before I could explain what I was doing and why I was doing it he Blurts out. I I'm an a-hole and then hangs up on me Now if this is the way they're gonna start treating us calling us names They better change their attitude a little bit, but I'm all for sharing services, which I said from day one and The shabuigan press if they would put some time and effort Into running a good newspaper instead of trying to run the city and parking their thoughts down to taxpayers throat I think they would be better off in a better newspaper Thank you, I'll live in a winner I think around I didn't really prepare anything for this But I guess I concur with my colleagues that have spoken thus far. I think when I read that editorial I was disturbed largely by the inaccuracies in it I think that that's just not something you should put in there If you can't be accurate then leave it out if you want to put your opinion in here That's one thing but to put things out there that are inaccurate and try to put them up There's being factual really bothered me a lot, especially when it came to the shabuigan County site issue Along with the Sheridan Park site issue because our building use committee did address that and right here Is the letter that we sent to? the county After we had a tentative agreement with them As you recall in our negotiations with the county and this was to their attorney Carl Beezing As you recall in our negotiations with the county the committee committee tentatively agreed to the access easement Subject to review and determination that the overall site layout with the easement will meet the city's building requirements We were to send this their site layout plan to the Kimi who spent you Was paid $35,000 to do an accurate study for the city. I might remind you And they came back to us and said no you need the full four acre site get back down with the county sit down and talk to them the county's response I Believe that the position of the county in this matter has been clear from the outset that an easement to the west One half of the south 30 feet of the four acre parcel was non-negotiable The county has gone to great lengths to help the city resolve its police station sighting problem from offering the site to the east of the County law enforcement's building offering it to us You know what offering is it's going to give it to you To agree to the relocation of the highway department shed Which we were required to pay for its replacement costs to agreeing to the city's proposal to accept the city's underutilized parking lot as partial payment for the highway department parcel underutilized that lot is fully rented a 326,000 dollar lot fully rented To agree to forego an easement on the east one half of the 30 feet parcel What you are now asking is for the county to create a problem for itself in order to solve the city's problems They're words not mine At this juncture the executive and transportation committees will be submitting a resolution to the May 2004 county board meeting To offer the site to the city based on the terms negotiated with city representatives on March 29th So they were doing it without even talking to us again So I've heard enough of that and the press ought to start getting that right in my mind I'm sick of hearing them twist the facts on that one that really bothers me as far as the friends I'm glad to hear that they're not opposed to site selection I'm glad to hear that they support the site We've chosen and I'm glad to hear that their main thrust is to look at shared services And we are looking at in the present site and we will always look at shared services And when they're in the best interest of the city's sheboygan it will have my full support And I do applaud my colleagues for standing up and saying something that perhaps would not have been said And I don't know chief Kirk. I talked to you today if you had something you wanted to add on this First I'd like to apologize I haven't been to a meeting without a suit and tie on for many many years and I apologize to Bob Weiss because he's also on vacation And he wore a suit and tie which I Which often I require But as I was on vacation today and spent the last six hours of my vacation day either in my office or preparing for tonight I thought I'm not going home and putting a tie on I'm sorry, so I apologize for that second off It's it's very interesting because I did meet with four members of this business Committee I've met with mr. Mike mooth mr. Dick Bemis Lana stare and Dan Merkel on Thursday the 16th of this year first off we began and Mr. Mooth addressed the letter he faxed me this letter and I thanked him for making sure that the mayor and the alderman received a copy of this letter We first talked about shared services. I Wanted to give the proper respect to these people because they are our business leaders in our community They chose to get involved in this They are willing to put their money where their mouth is and say chief we like to look at this as we began to talk about this topic I first off felt initially offended in the sense that they wish to fund a study on shared services yet They haven't talked to me or a member of my department about what services we do share So as we began to talk about what services we do share I wish just to touch on these if I couldn't mr. Mayor as to some of the shared services so we understand what we share before we need to investigate further We share daily information on Daily investigations we have a monthly chiefs meeting with the sheriff and the police chiefs of this county This monthly meeting began when I became a chief because we want input on our decisions as to what we do as the law enforcement agencies in our county We used to use their criminal or their criminal investigator for the computer investigations because he was the expert at that time We do their internal investigations. They do ours. We do their internal investigations and criminal investigations when needed We assist with mutual aid investigations inside and outside of this this city and county We use a joint radio and electronics a technician for the operation and upkeep on the radios and equipment Computers we have a joint crime Software which ties our records together that began under sheriff Canig when I offered to them to come on board And I recall mayor when we addressed this at one of the meetings. He said chief What does it do for us? It'll do nothing for us for about two to three years and we are at two to three years And it's doing tremendous Efforts for our joint records and working together We have a city county mugshot imaging system that goes along with this crime software package Which means anytime there's a mugshot taken in the city county. They all come to one one area We received a federal grant to DCC communicator Which is an emergency notifier that we share with the county we share their range. They share our range outside range We are now currently working on a joint impound and evidence storage area on the old grass clipping spot Which is probably a joint effort that began with Tom Houlton Our detective equipment is shared we Do the crime scene reconstruction we make models for for the courts They have a 360-degree camera where they set inside of a crime scene and they shoot 360-degree photographs which I would love to have but if they have it we use it We've asked them and they've come on to our bicycle and car auction at one time probably the best shared service We have now is the Meg unit Funding for the Meg unit is beginning to decrease in 2006 we can anticipate between 50 to 60 percent reduction in the federal and state funding for this combined unit we have Now created a combined city county grant writing team Which was our concern and we went to the county to make sure that they got on board with us SWAT team or team we share Dive team we used to be 10 members on the county 10 members on the city We now have five from the city five in a county Canine unit officer Edson is our canine handler. We share that service with the county the county is now talking about a Canine officer, which in fact would be shared with our our city a Vehicle repeater system. It's it's mobex, which means with the 800 megahertz system the radio system Which we went joint several years back Inside of a large structure. We can't get our radio communications to the headquarters So you had to get a vehicle repeater system, which gets the repeater to that location So the officers can talk safely to headquarters that's been offered with to the county As we went on and I first explained to them, please you need to understand what we share before you offer to Study what we should share. We talked then of of what we do share and I then once again, I Think it's fantastic that they have come to the board to offer their their financial input into some of the concerns that they have But they need to sit down and we need to sit down and tell you because I don't think we share enough with you What we do on a regular basis We then talked about what they talked They proposed in a study to identify the best practices for sharing services There's only a hand few of the alderman in this in this room at the present time that understand that I was in North Carolina Last week talked about best practices in the nation and law enforcement in the criminal justice system I was the only police chief selected from the state of Wisconsin went down with senator zine Keith Finley from the UW law school and project innocence a re-task force with Marla Stephens the public defender for the state of Wisconsin Mr. Harmon who's from the Department of Justice and that Meeting on a national basis was to talk about best practices in law enforcement in the criminal justice system We talked about best practices and my my officers my administration deal constantly with best practices And there's a lot of best practices we will love But there's also a reality to our budget and to law enforcement within the city We had to reduce our budget last year this year best practices currently for the last many years Say we should have video recorders and squad cars. I've told them that We have 15 mark squad cars. We got one video recorder best practices in the state of Wisconsin says we should have tasers We are currently being offered some assistance in that but at the present time We received one-tenth of what the budgeted amount that we asked from for the budget also best practices currently coming out of North Carolina and this federal approach to The criminal justice system says that we should audio tape and or videotape all of the criminal investigations I'm not sure where the money's coming from so as they offered to look at best services I applaud them for those efforts, but understand what the reality of current policing is There is not money for many of these best practices doesn't mean yet We don't have to discuss them and look at them because I go around the state in different agencies or different committees I sit on to talk of best practices. I speak to the new chiefs of police training session on a yearly basis About best practices how to survive your position as a police chief and I'm telling you Mr. Mayor and Common Council you provided me some great funding yet at the same time best practices We have not complied with many of the best practices right now, but we're doing what the best we can So as we talked about this mr. Muth We talked about liability and I I don't need to defend any of these people in nor do I need to Speak for them, but I will speak and they asked me if I would speak in support of a joint effort to study this I said certainly if this is unshared services, please understand what we do Please talk to sheriff what what we do together and then let's study this as to what the best services are What we can share and what we can't they initially said we should look at the efficiency reduced costs and there's six different Evaluation measures we should look at it should be the efficiency if we're going to consolidate or shared services It should become more effective more efficient It should save the city and or county money. It should be a Better service and or the same service for a reduced price. It should also Deal with heart with accountability If we're going to share services, we have to hold those accountable to what we're sharing so that we do receive The suggested product and we also have to deal with harmony Is it going to create harmony or disharmony within the organization because if it creates disharmony? You will not get the intended results. So as we're speaking we talked of liability That currently exists in our current structure Lana stair indicates that we should build immediately. This is not about site selection. This is not It's about shared service not both site selection and chief we should build immediately We are not stopping your construction of this police department. Mr. Muth shortly right after that This is chief. I agree. We should build immediately and I'm telling you we do not oppose the current site I asked him I said this letter that you authored with mr. Grover I thank you for sending it mr. Muth wanted to make it clear that this is a consensus Opinion letter from those people who sit on the informal group. I Have no reason to doubt what I was told that day And I'm not sure who sits on this informal business group other than the four members I spoke to that day I Applaud them for studying shared services as I said I was initially offended because we take great pride Sitting with the county sheriff and the other chiefs. I Sat nationally on a panel to discuss best practices So we do take our job serious and if they are willing to provide a study that addresses shared services Not site selection as they indicated because they said as Mr. Mr. Muth said Chief you must build immediately. We no longer oppose The current site that you have picked so this is what I've been told and this is basically what I wanted to say. Thank you We can't go on to public forum if we would like the mayor just had to step out for a second The first one on public forum is mr. Frank coaxing Mr. Cokes and again, could you give me your home address? Certainly? 2829 Erie Avenue And you will have five minutes, sir. Hey, thank you first address the council on November 1st regarding a Sheridan Park site as a potential landfill Next was December 6th two weeks ago that the landfill Very likely to contain some serious contaminants. I Related some of my conversations with expert professional opinion people from the DNR here locally in Plymouth and in Milwaukee and with a professional in At the Alpha Terra company, which does soil tectonics they call testing And at that time I spent a lot of time talking about vapor probes I can get a chance to make my point because time ran out. I'd like to Continue with that The reason I focused on vapor probes that detect the presence of methane particularly high levels of methane was it would avoid serious Revealing more serious problems Soil borings will have to be done No engineer worth his salt would design foundations Without knowing what those foundations are going to rest on When I talked with Ken Abbott at Alpha Terra, he said You're gonna pull up a four inch core and there are different procedures. You might sample every two feet You might sample. Oh He gave me a range of things. He said that will reveal what's in there. You cannot not do soil borings And when those soil borings bring up contaminated material and I'm confident that they will The development will stop you will have to apply for an exemption and that exemption will depend on an investigation When I talked with Nancy Ryan, she said the best-case scenario is the borings reveal benign materials Worst-case scenario is you will have to remove everything Intermediate Put an appropriate cap on it. What's an appropriate cap a couple feet of clay Sounds relatively expensive to me One of the things that she said is she was surprised that the council was not exercising and this is a phrase our city attorney will recognize do diligence Because there is the potential to expose the city to significant liabilities This is not Mayor Schramm an issue of safety if these materials are found The city cannot say while we reconsider. Let's just put everything back the way it is and let's go someplace else The toothpaste is out of the tube to use a phrase from a decade or two ago When they find contaminated materials, they will say to the city you must address this problem Whether you build a police station there or not You don't have a choice and if you don't pay heed to this And there is a simple procedure Do the vapor probe testing? Would you allow an independent group to fund vapor probe testing if you don't want to Spend the money yourself because there is ten thousand dollars available in the Kimmy report budget for soils testing This would reveal the first step if indeed there is methane and at high levels at high levels It causes explosive conditions within a Constructure unless it's fended would you be willing to listen to an official from the DNR? Explain the ramifications of this decision to you Would you be willing to do the research to find out if? At the turn of the century there were permits to these companies if there were resolutions to find out that yes indeed The city said you know we want that to be a flat terrace It'll be expensive to do it, but if we invite these companies to put that fill there We don't have to use the manpower. We don't have to use the equipment. We don't have to find the materials They'll be glad to put it there and the kind of materials from the furniture companies From the brewery and worst of all the tannery Because I got a book called practical leather technology from the library and I have studied this and the materials are nasty Especially the chromium and they don't recover the chromium from the process It shows up in the sludges and those sludges are what Excuse me, mr. Cokes and for five minutes are up. I'm sorry. Thank you Our next speaker is john burner John could you give me your home address again, please? Sure 1919 Broadway Good evening everybody boy. You hit on everything I was going to talk about tonight Press the guy sitting there with your plugs in Yes, the press, you know, I read the articles I don't buy the press but I read them while I'm getting gas or something and then I saw this this last editorial and You know everything you say is there is no shared revenue Uh, and it's like you don't even come to these common council meetings. You're listening to me You can write this down if you want. Yes. You don't be bashful uh I like a smile And another thing is is when the press Had the article on uh park site and you people said recall these people recall You know what? Maybe they're right, you know, not the press Maybe these people that voted for the park was right. Did you ever look at the city map? You know where the central of the city is now on 14th street. No, it's not in that paper I I passed it around a couple weeks ago You know, it's like any other business Uh, the press did it you you say that the Extra money Isn't going to cost the taxpayers that much but yet I saw the press move the final act That was a business decision uh Mr. Moose he built out in the township He still has the building in the city and Mr. Grover he has uh vinyl plastics, but it really has never expanded in shibuya in the last 10 years They are businessmen. They got to be good at it because they make money But they don't live in the city their houses are not in the city Their business their businesses are in the city They pay taxes the business pays taxes the businesses do Me as a resident I pay a I pay taxes to the city like many others I don't get a high income like a lot of you know Just like they ever average show we don't make the big bucks So every dime is important to us so 14th street if these people Would consolidate their funds by the next block over Rip it down Say here build a police station on that. There's the park But you know what? This man here says there's contamination there So whether you took the next block or the other block because I'm certain it didn't take one little space and dump in it and said That's the park It had been that whole area And people have dug in it, right? They got basements Geez I was gonna say so much in your guys just talk to the chief here good But uh shared shared services you you press just doesn't You just blank that out when you put in an editorial. It's like there isn't going to be any shared service unless we go to 23rd street I don't know where you get that from I mean, I just watch these meetings and I can pick it up and I'm no scholar Just a common ordinary person You're educated. You should be able to pick that up just like that I'm done Thank you Um next would be eric itson. I I worked for 10 hours today. I got time to go home and change Eric could you give me your home address, please 30 36 12 rosewood court And you will have five minutes Honorable mayor shram and members of the council I feel like I should begin my comments tonight barring from alderman burg by stating here we go again Another group of people this time operating under the heading of concerned business leaders Is seeking to undermine the authority of this council to conduct the affairs of the citizens According to information in the schwoigen press which I'll comment on later It would appear that this group doesn't believe that the council has spent enough time debating Nor do they apparently think that the council members are intelligent enough to make the final decision regarding the location for a new police department If that were true, it would really demean the effort and dedication Of the alderman and other professionals that were involved in over 80 meetings studying 49 sites And while I commend this latest group of individuals for being successful in their businesses Why should their input to be any more influential or demand any more consideration than any other citizen Of schwoigen which incidentally most of these business leaders are not As a city employee and a taxpayer I too wish to see the city run at its highest level of efficiency and combine services when appropriate But those issues have little to do with where the new police department should be built And any questions about the ability to share services at the shared and park site have already been addressed To pay for another study even if funded by private dollars seems a waste And what what are the study when it's completed? Who's to say that the results are any more valid than the city's study? Is the city's own study to be disregarded then? Who decides what if any of the studies findings are worthy of implementing the city? The business leaders And if the city doesn't choose to implement them Will the business leaders push for more studies or bully our elected officials with threats of opposing reelection campaigns Now in fairness to this group of businessmen and women. I have heard that they may have been misquoted in the schwoigen press The front page press article of december 11th and its recent editorial yesterday Imply that the group's primary focus is the opposition to the shared and park site However, in a recent letter to the mayor and the council Michael mooth a member of this group states unequivocally quote Let us be perfectly clear our group is not about site selection. Our focus is shared services and of quote Now either this group has ulterior motives Which considering the integrity of its members is unlikely Or once again the press has chosen to show its bias And spin fact into propaganda to further its own agenda The press alleges that somehow the mayor was not open and forthright with the information discussed at meetings leading up to the decision I'm excuse me the selection of shared and park But we're not all these meetings open to the public Where is the is the press's responsibility to attend and report on these meetings? Finally yesterday's editorial charges that may or shram That quote may or shram and the council should listen to the business people Just as they should have listened to the citizens group a month ago months ago end of quote What about listening to all the citizens in favor of building a shared and park that have written letters and spoken before this council? What about listening to the experts who the city with taxpayer money Hired to study all the alternatives and ultimately recommended the park And what about the chief and the men and women of his department the true experts on the needs of our law enforcement community? What about their voice? Ironically the press editorial makes my point It's stated quote all the men are the decision makers the representatives of the people end of quotes exactly You have listened to all these groups. You have carefully considered the alternatives weighed good and bad and have made your decision It's time that we all respect that decision and move forward with this with this endeavor. Thank you Thank you, eric Tom Zizinski, please Tom could you give me your home address sure 24 04 silver leaf lane? And you will have five minutes Our mayor and council members. Thank you for allowing me to speak and i'm here to speak In support of the police department being built at shared and park I want to discuss the process and the local media specifically the failure of the shabuigan press to fairly present the issue We do have a representative form of government And I would venture to say that the papers reporters very seldom are present at discussions that take place at the committee level This is where most of the action takes place in government And we saw that in its decision to build a police facility at shared and park Upwards of 80 meetings over two and a half years show that the council did its work The public should be informed of these meetings and what what is going on and what is going to be discussed Not just what's going to be voted on during the committee of the whole Or a regular council session The mayor and some members of the common council have always recognized the need for a new police facility And they excuse me the glasses here And they continue to do what's best for the city The mayor has had a vision to address other issues around the city Such as continued development of the harbour center area storm water flooding issues expansion of commercial and industrial areas development of blue harbour These could not have been done all at once due to the budgetary constraints Perhaps previous administrations should have made the police facility a priority a priority and we would not be having these discussions now Reporting on the part of the press that its decision is flawed or that the people haven't been heard is ludicrous and serves no purpose Except to give traction to candidates running for office in april I believe alternative sites were discussed at these 80 meetings that the press failed to inform on Now it's time to go forward in hiring the architect And eventual construction of a police facility at shared and part Thanks for your time Oh and mayor by the way Last last week my wife heard a rumor that I was running for mayor. I just want to let you know that no i'm not a candidate Thanks, top And lastly we have john winter John could you give me a home address, please sure 22 13 broadway avenue And you will have five minutes. Thank you mayor council My theme is the same the selection of shared and park Much has been said about the site of the new location Over the many months and all the all the surveys and studying that has been done Some are saying that the north 23rd street site is best suited because it is centrally located And has easy access to i 43 and also 14th street Well, I'll just set the record straight i 43 is not in the city. Therefore. It's not part of the plan The police department does not patrol i 43 nor do we use it as far as 14th street is concerned shared and park is on 14th street So I don't believe you can get any closer to that as as building on shared and park Um as far as what I said about a north 23rd street being centrally located I often wonder if some people ever took the time to look at a map I brought a map with me. I think most of you understand what the city looks like But uh and first with this last newspaper article Tell talking about the site being centrally located Certainly implied that mr. Muth was the one who said that it appears now that perhaps he has not said that And maybe the press was putting their own spin on it So anyways just for a little education on the on the city here Basically, the city is a north south city as it's laid out It's approximately 6.8 miles long from north to south and then it's widest point That is widest point. It's about uh 3.1 miles Now if you look here on the red dot this red dot represents shared and park the other red dot The other red dot Well, I guess I gotta stay closer the other red dot represents north 23rd street station Now there are four other green dots on here Which represent locations that police officers go to most often on a daily basis during their tour of duty Those locations are city hall This location here would be the sheriff department, which also houses a juvenile and female detention center as well as the courthouse Over here is the dpw service building, which is where we gas up our squad cars And down here in the industrial park is the um is the adult male detention center These are locations that we frequent on a daily basis All four of these locations are closer to the shared and park site than they are to the north 23rd street site In addition, I picked two arbitrary sites and being that this is a north south city I thought what better fits than north high and south high So I located north high and south high In this and south high of course is closer to the shared and site And north high is closer to the north 23rd street site However, the difference between the two of them is only one tenth of a mile So it's very close In my view having the police station in the heart of the city is very important I think that the site is more visible to the public. It also is part of the city It becomes part of the community at this location The north 23rd street site is on a side street and basically is stuck in the middle of a field next to a shed It certainly doesn't get the impression that it's part of the city nor part of the community With regards to shared services Much has been pointed out about the about the location and shared services The feeling is that if we don't build on county land that we can't share services That's not true As the chief pointed out, there are many services that are already shared by the city and the county He did forget some however my own job in the community policing unit Okay I'm on numerous committees where we are in part of other Departments as well as other agencies as well within the county. So we do share services on several committees as well Last point is responsibility Recent comments made about Questioning the decisions of city councils in the press They feel that council does not listen to the wishes because a vocal minority did not get their way with regard to the police site Yet they yet they demand that the council be fiscally responsible. They can't have it both ways But putting the police department on 23rd street's site has been said that it will cost more and that's not fiscally responsible Plus any delays could end up costing the city millions of dollars in lawsuits How is that you ask is because of the safety and liability concerns that are in the police department right now Many of you took the time to tour the police department. You know exactly what i'm talking about Now is the time we have to we have to build a police department We can't be waiting any longer and relocating should be done as quickly as possible without any more delays. Thank you Thank you, dad All right Thank you everyone 181 through 1824 Alderman warner. I think your honor. I move that all our roles be accepted and placed on file All our seats be accepted and adopted all resolutions substitute resolutions and ordinances be passed We have motion before us that all all our roles be accepted in the file All our seats be accepted and adopted resolutions and ordinances be put upon your passage under discussion. This is 181 through 1824 Alderman warner Thank you. Your honor. My buzzer is not working. I would just like to speak on uh document 187 Yeah, I don't want a separate board or anything This is a document that came into public protection and safety from our december 6 council meeting And it was a communication from charlene dickie of 1649 north 27th place stating that because of her affiliation with the friends of shaboin parks She felt uncomfortable and intimidated by an off duty police officer While we had uh miss dickie and off duty police officer at the time was officer edson whom you heard speak here tonight at our public protection and safety meeting And we had a good discussion on that and the committee felt That it was important that they provide something to go along with uh officer edson's Record because this is something that could have a negative impact on his service record And we wanted to make sure that it did not do so So what I did is I typed up a letter over the weekend and this evening at the meeting I asked the members of the committee if they would read it if they'd agree We would just like to turn this into the city clerk, but I like to read it first So she concluded with her record or give it to ed goes with it With eric's uh record. So if I can read this to you, uh dear mayor shram Under summer 15th 2004 the public protection safety committee discussed and took action on council document number 790405 a communication from charlene dickie alleging concerns with officer eric edson of the shaboin police department This communication submitted to the common council while the person montemire Was referred to our committee at the december 6th meeting of the common council In being submitted to the common council this document became a public record And as such has the potential to adversely impact the service record of officer edson without a proper hearing The committee had a thorough discussion on the communication with miss dickie and officer edson present at our meeting It is a finding in belief of the committee on public protection and safety that the issue has been resolved And that there was not any improper behavior on the part of officer eric edson The committee would ask that in the future any such allegations or concerns regarding city employees be handled through the proper channels To protect the reputation and well-being of city employees We would ask that all the persons presented with such concerns by the public follow the proper channels to resolve such issues This can be done by contacting human resources director Or the appropriate department head We ask that this letter be included with any documentation regarding the above issue as a matter of record Thank you all of them in order If there's all of my prayers Thank you mayor I wasn't going to speak to 187, but I I think I Feel an obligation to do so particularly because This dickie called me and talked to me a little bit about what was what had happened at the committee and she Wanted me to convey to the council that Not the council I I'm sorry the public protection and safety that she had made she had been made to feel very uncomfortable Almost to the point where Some people felt that she had lied and she just wanted me to Assure the council that all she had conveyed was Her feelings her impressions and so forth With respect to all of them and Warner saying that perhaps the department head should be Should be a refer talked to she also indicated that she had talked to chief Kirk about the situation before she even Talked or even thought about writing a letter and that nothing had resulted from that Also with respect to any process that's involved I think that the chair is pretty much in control of the committee meetings. I recall a communication from an individual calling me a liar and landing at the building news committee, which all of them weren't chairs and He recommended that it be not even discussed and be forwarded to another committee I think at this point if it wasn't appropriate To discuss this issue which may have been And the chair should have properly referred it to the appropriate committee and not discuss it at the meeting The reason that letter was discussed is because the chair allowed it to happen And I think that needs to be made clear to the people To the committee members to the council That the chair has an enormous amount of control over what happens during the committee And in this case if the letter was discussed publicly Because chaired allowed it Chief would you like to respond to that there's some comment made that she spoke to you and nothing happened I certainly would I stand here tonight and to let you know that I've talked to city clerk Sue Richards when this first was put on the agenda I spoke of it to the mayor. I found it wrong that a possible internal matter Was not sent to us to be investigated now. Mrs. Dickey is absolutely correct I did talk to her on the phone about this incident I begged her to come to our department to file a complaint if in fact she thought that was necessary I stand here tonight and I hold my officers And I'll let you know I hold my officers accountable for their behavior I investigate each and every Incident that's reported to our department and we make sure it's documented To make sure that if someone has a question That we have a record that it has been looked into Mrs. Dickey chose not to come to my department to file an internal investigation Yet I spoke to officer etcin about this matter, which many times I don't First off I told miss Dickey that I find it offensive that one of my officers would harass if you wish to use that word Another citizen for speaking out She says that I would know her if I saw her and I don't know who she is She has her right to speak against the police department if she chooses But I'm here to tell you that we will investigate each and every case she chose not to come To us. I yet talked to officer edson About this he denied any involvement in there. He doesn't know who she was at that time I'm not sure if he knows her now However, I'm also here tonight to tell you that I would defend my officers And that is the reason for internal investigations. I will Hold my officers accountable when they are wrong Or do something wrong and I will defend my officers when these allegations Are not worthwhile Or not brought to my attention to investigate I would ask that if you don't understand Please if you ever get a letter about the performance of one of my officers you bring it to my attention or the deputy chiefs We will get back to you as the author of that complaint or concern to let you know what happened Thank you. Thank you chief Alderman berg Thank you your honor I think what i'm going to do is i'm going to talk to the attorney and see if we could set up A committee at a whole meeting sometime in january To cover Certain documents that uh people want to bring in alderman that that we can ask him What what we should take to the floor or what should go to different department heads You know that they can they can clear up the situation Alderman seagull I guess the reason we know have to know about the chain of command and what to do concerning these situations Here's officer edson sitting again Um having this all aired out in the public And it's really our councilman's fault This is taking place because we didn't know the proper procedures to follow Saw that chief kerr could have taken care of it and this would never have been having to be inflated as it is today So again, I personally will apologize to officer edson for having to have him go through something like this Thank you Alderman warner I thank you and the committee did apologize in in the committee each each committee member did apologize to officer edson For having him go through that and we also had a good discussion with miss dickie Miss dickie, you know, she did feel uncomfortable and as I said to her Uh, I felt sorry that she felt that way. I felt sorry for her for feeling uncomfortable and Officer edson did apologize to her If his presence made her feel that way at that meeting a couple of things when a documents referred to your committee You have to deal with the committee it was sent to your committee This should have been dealt with in a different way from day one It never should have gotten to the committee level We handled it. I believe well in committee each side got to speak to what their issues were I think the committee did its job. We just felt that the nature of this Should be brought forward so it doesn't happen again to someone else and let the council know what's going on I think we did the right thing. Thank you Okay 181 through 1824 would you call her old? burg boney surda graph laux mani montemayor pares rinflash sagali stefan vanakren van der wheel warner and bowman 15 eyes Motion carried 1825 through 28 to be referred 1829 will lie over 1830 through 36 to be referred all of them in sagali Thank you your honor. I would like to hold documents 1831 and 1833 and I'm requesting that they be filed instead of Going to the committee of public protection and safety We have motion to second before us under discussion alderman surda I just question the attention of these documents and I would just like to have Attorney steven the clean just to comment if indeed filing these documents not going through the same scenario Which we just had last week in public protection and safety. What your thoughts are. Thank you Thanks alderman surda. I don't see it as a really illegal issue. I think it's I I do believe the both police department fire department's aware of the letter I think they got copies of it and are Looking into their aspects of it and also I think police department's checking out the safety of the building and the the codes and so forth so You know whether you send it to committee or not. I don't know that it's going to make any difference I think it will be addressed by the Both departments It's not really You know, it's an issue that an out-of-town resident brings concerning You know a lodging facility in the city And the response by the two departments If the council and the committee wants To look into that further and committee. I think you could but I don't know that it's necessary Alderman montayer Thank you, mr. Mayor. I see both of these communications are written. Dear mr. Schramm dear mr. Schramm. So how did they get to the council? You thought we should look at them. They were submitted to the city clerk as a communication coming in to the council and he resigned Okay, even though it was addressed to you. They were all they were also sent to each department head That's responsible that department right now is working with these people to clear up the incident Thank you. You're welcome Alderman warner I think in and I guess since this was going to public protection safety I I would agree with filing these documents. I think that's a good idea The reason is is this is a private business and really we can't tell private business how to treat its patrons and Our issues that are being taken care of in our departments are fine But it's really not a city issue if a If a customer feels they were not treated fairly by a local business Unless it was something that broke the law and I think we'd find out all with our inspections and in this case You read these apparently it was just dissatisfied customers. Well, what's the city has nothing to do with that? So Thank you, mayor once again, I'm a little concerned What the process here? We keep talking about about a process on one end and on the other end we won't eliminate a process The process being the referral of communications to particular committees and again, I apologize almond warner but I must say again that I believe you were Saying to me one time that we need to let the process work and we should refer every communication regardless of what it says About an individual in that case. It was a letter drafted against me Stayed in pretty much bare opinion about how they felt about how I vote it And I thought that that kind of letter should be filed on the council floor You are adamantly objected to it and Requested that everything be followed through a process and here again. We one time we want to process the other time We don't I guess when it's convenient. We might write the convenient policy That's what we need to do it It's getting a little bit out of hand Where we we are starting to file communications on the council floor if we're gonna do it for one, let's do it for all Is there any other discussion almond warner? I think and just to make one point clear It's a lot different when something comes in about a member of the council or something That has to do with the city, but these these are complaints about a business and and its practices of Serving its customers really has nothing to do with the city. It's pretty clear All the way drop Again, I can agree with filing these two documents based on 1833, which is by due to Patel on the Grand Hotel They refunded the the dollars that these people paid for their room and explained to them their situation and their policy and it seems there was Fault on both sides if you want to want to put it that way and but right now it looks like Hopefully everything is settled and These people will not hold that against the city as far as coming back here in the future correct Policy always benefit if a document comes in it's saying that you you let the council see that document Whether you want to file it or not, it's up to this council But the department heads are taking care of it chief sayer did crazy the process of contacting The people in milwaukee to speak to them about this issue. So it is being taken care of that way Correct chief And thank you, and I just thought perhaps a nice letter to the customers from the city mayor's office might be appropriate Thank you Okay, we have a motion to second before us to file 1831 to 1833. There's no other discussion all in favor of the filing I opposed Motion carried Okay, rest of the documents You won't call soon The rest of the documents We did that already We did that already That's right All right, 1837 by by alderman groff regarding gathering additional information on shared services Alderman groff Thank you, your honor. I would move that that resolution Hey, hang on just a moment, sir Pardon me 1832 being referred Okay That's fine. I'll be quirked Okay, all of them draw. Thank you. I would move that that resolution regarding the gathering of additional information on Shared services we put upon its passage We have motion to second before us under discussion Who seconded it, please? Under discussion alderman bird Thank you, your honor on this document here it says that We're going to give our support to their findings We have no findings yet. So I think this is a little bit premature Once they have made their study and come in with some findings Then I think a document should come in and then we should take a vote on that This is a little bit premature Any other discussion Alderman groff, you know, I'll try to answer that. I think it was written that way because um If you recall the letter that we all received from the from the friends of sheboygan That was in there also they um, they're hoping That you will Accept this as a as an informational tool to use in the future to to make some decisions as far as shared services go um And that's the way it was written like that if the council so feels that they would like to strike that Um An amendment could be made at this particular time, but I I think it's got to stay in there knowing Giving the the friends the information that yes, we will indeed look at this We aren't just going to put it on a shelf and we're going to examine it to see Is it feasible or isn't it? Thank you alderman right in place I think actually that alderman may change the intent of the resolution although the author just spoke on that I certainly support the independent study and I would urge that all the departments that are involved Work with the group if they wish to do the independent study But I do agree with alderman burg the last statement says this study will show what is best for the city of sheboygan community now And in the future I think that's for us to decide after the the document the study has been done To look at the information and decide ourselves as elected officials as representatives of our constituents What is best and just whatever the study comes back We can use as a tool to decide what is best, but not necessarily now therefore be resolved The study will show what is best that I cannot support but I do urge the group to continue with the research and Whatever solutions come forward. I look forward to looking at myself Alderman order, I thank your honor As I read this a lot of concerns didn't come to mind for myself as well a lot of the verbiage Uh, I at first was going to start striking out words and rewriting it to something that I could at least look at and And say that I could maybe agree to but I don't think I think that would be premature I'd like to say that I I have no problem with the interested parties wishing to fund an independent study study regarding shared services In fact, I welcome that because it'll save us money the taxpayers and the city I would also likely be supportive of some of the findings should they prove to save taxpayer dollars And provide adequate or improved services I guess, you know, we often hear politicians in other state that we need to share services and there will be great savings But all too often it's just rhetoric for sound bites in the feel-good politics To me, there are several tests that an item must pass as I said tax dollar savings Improved services and finally the real measure, which is this Is it in the best interests of the city? I will not support this resolution at this time for the obvious reason that I do not believe I can agree to accept the results of a study when I do not know what those results are Um, how could anyone as I say I have no problem with them going forward doing the study bringing it to us We look at that study We'll look at it I I would All the way and stuff it Yes, I too, uh, I didn't really have a problem with the supporting the study because to me I think that just means, you know, we're going to give it a good look when it's done I did think that the last sentence Could could use some amendment amending in my mind because Hopefully it's going to show what's best, but we don't know that for a fact I think anybody who's been up here and knows me knows that I'm definitely interested in shared services Um fire chief could tell you him and I have had many discussions on dispatch services and I think As this study and I support this obviously and I think one of the things we have to to get out there is Is what the chief said first of all what we're doing right now in shared services. Okay, and what else is possible? Okay, when I talk to people on the street about shared services They want to say well, why do I pay for the police department and I pay for the county sheriff's County sheriff doesn't do anything for me the city They say Why do I pay for the dispatchers and the county and the dispatchers in the city? I shouldn't be paying for both of those Okay, that's the things is they're looking at And that's what you know, I guess you look at both The the document from the friends group and it says it's not going to add You know, they want to look at ideas that don't increase cost to anybody Well, I think we have to say Willing to say well, maybe we can increase cost if it's a better thing for everybody You know one perfect example is the police liaison officer program You know the finance committee came out and said last time, you know It's fair that the school system pays half of it But there's a few towns that don't pay the other half and the city picks up their portion We sent them a letter to those towns asking them just explaining it to them how it was figured out And now one of them sent us a check back and this is you know, minor dollars obviously So I guess we've got to get you know buying from the county buying from the towns to really look at this thing As a whole and say what's best if we can combine things if we can't But you know, that's what the people are looking for bigger things and maybe they can't be done Maybe they can't be I had somebody today say well, you know I was following the county plow and went right through color on pp And it got to the city lines and it turns around and I'm paying for that plow And it's the same you know, that's what the people are looking for out there I don't know if it's the press and they're not doing you know adequate enough job explaining what we are doing In shared services, but I really think we need to maybe the study I'll look at that and say what can we do to work with the county And the towns because everybody doesn't want to be a next we've got the Walmart problem Nobody wants to be a next well, why not city taxes are higher everybody tells me this is why the city taxes are higher Because they pay for the county's share of it and the city share of it of a lot of services So I think hopefully this study Can't address some of that if there's anything we can do if there's not at least only people aware of it But I would like to see the last line amendment Well Alderman Stefan before you guys vote it down or whatever you do with it Why don't you make amendment to that last line if that's a concern? I was going to leave that up to the author actually Up to Alderman graph Okay, excellent. Why don't you make amendment so we can move this forward? um The last line of now therefore be it resolved Where it begins this study will show what is best for I would move that we strike that line Okay I'll second that Okay, you have a motion before you Under discussion of the amendment Would you please repeat that Alderman draw? That under now therefore be resolved on the first page Where it starts off the last line is this study will show what is best for the city of Sheboygan now and in the future I would move that we strike that line Okay, now we're speaking on an amendment correct Okay, Alderman van der wil Thank you, honor. Um seems to me that we're missing The whole point here on the other side if you look at it be further resolved That the proper city officials accept and use the information from the independent study And it goes on why wouldn't we accept and use it if we haven't seen it already? I think that should also be striked Alderman graph if I may answer that if we strike that Then what's the sense for the friends to do that for that study? I mean It wouldn't they want to make sure that we're going to look at this That we're not just going to take it and put it up on the shelf Okay, alderman server. Thank you. I also had Some hesitations too in the middle of the paragraph in the beginning or in the second paragraph Where it ends with ultimately this study could become a municipal guideline to be used by whoever could benefit from its contents and I'm just wondering if we have any legal you know legal ties to that wordage I would say no all limits or it's an aware as provision. It's not the It's not the operative provisions that resolves And it's it's framed in such that it could become you know, so it's not Not binding or or absolute. Anyway, okay Okay, Alderman Perez Thank you, mayor I'll support this resolution because I think it's an excellent opportunity to explore The issue may have talked about for years and years and years, but doesn't quite seem to materialize and shared services My question would be we have a An email may or address to you by mrs. Lana stare asking some critical key questions that involve Oh, this is on a hang on. This is on amendment. Oh, okay. I'll just refer to that. This is on amendment Okay, anyone else on amendment Alderman water I like most not be working it, you know, there's so many places that I think need to be amended I you know, I support the idea of them Bringing this study forward going out with the study and us coming back and considering it But there's so many things in here where the words and verbiage just don't fit You know, there's in that first whereas and the next whereas There's some and there's some in the whereas after that and then the now therefore be it resolved has to have some struck out I can't we're gonna have to bring this back in a solid piece before I want to support it I just can't and I want to I want to because I think the intent is is honorable on this, you know in that last one Where alderman banner really had a question and said accept and use that's like almost saying you're going to accept it and use it Well, no, I will consider it and review it From the independent study and discuss and work to implement those that are found to be in the best interest of the city Sporting I'd have something like that there. But so even this other amendment kind of Sticks me. I'm for doing this. I they can go forward with their study But all the verbiage in here is just not Something I can support until we get that rewritten so that it Shows them that we're going to review it and send it to our committees the whole or whatever it is And also Addresses some of these things that seem to imply that we will be found to some of these issues Yeah, we're speaking on amendment now alderman month mayor Oh that particular Sentence not a further amendment, right? Okay. I don't want to say anything about that particular sentence. Okay Alderman Many Thank you. This would be a further amendment, but it could alleviate Alderman warner's concerns If under the last be it further resolved we struck the word undertake second line towards the end And put in the word consider Which paragraph is this the last be it resolved? Strike second sentence second line word undertake And put in the word consider I think that would At least in my mind address Alderman warner's concerns Take that as people that we're still talking about the first amendment though. We got to vote on Yeah I think we should hold this very less Back page back page No I know I am Okay, you got a second all of them any Got him All right, we're still on amendment all of them verb on that last be it further resolved alderman vendor really stole my thunder So as long as we're chopping this up so much. Why don't we just File it and let them come in with a new one when they come in with their findings Okay, Alderman rain play I'm just gonna speak on the uh document as a whole not on the amendment. Okay Alderman van der wheel. Thank you, your honor I was just thinking, you know, we all have we want to change it. We all want to change it Would it be possible to send this community the whole and we all have put our two cents into it? I don't know if that's possible Anything's possible. Do we have amendment on now all of them in order on amendment on amendment to uh, there's just So many amendments there without having the words down I'd like to see this document in its final form instead of crossing things out spreading in some words here And ending up voting for something that we don't really Uh, know what's there. So I think we should I'm not going to support the amendments at this time. I will support a revised document Uh, if we can put something together or Or if we add these amendments and bring that document back so we can look at it again when it has all the revisions in it I'm fine with that Amendments speaking on amendments to this. All right. We have a motion to second on amendment on an amendment Is there any other discussion on that? Hearing none all in favor of the amendment Pause Motion carried. I believe if I heard right or you want to roll call on This on amendment on the amendment bone a Surda graph Lauchs Manny Montemay or Perez Rindflash Segali Stefan Van Akron Vander wheel no Warner no Bowman Berg Eight eyes seven nose All right now on a document is amended all of them grow up. Yeah, I know that I'll move that the resolution has amended We put upon its passage We have a motion to second me for us under discussion. Okay all of them right question. Thank you your honor um I voted against the uh amendment I I do think that it uh makes some progress, but I do agree with all the warning of that It's not necessarily far enough one of my biggest concerns about this entire document is The tone of it makes it sound like the only reason that we don't currently have shared services It's the city's fault and I wholeheartedly disagree with that So we just heard for example from one department the police department of what shared services we do use already um And the the final bit resolves that the proper city officials accept and use the information Well, what about the county officials? Um, it takes two parties to share. Uh, we can't share on our own that way And I do hope that they do continue with the study I do look forward to hearing some of the information But some of the information that I want to hear is uh as even well done Stefan brought up the city taxpayers pay for a large chunk of the county Tax rolls and don't necessarily get those services that they see and use brought the example of The sheriffs and brought the example of the snow plow stopping at the city line But there's many many more as well You know one hand we're almost half the population of the county, but we don't have half the seats on the county board Um, the tax revenues the county gets most of it comes from the city should boy get not necessarily the county yet We don't really get that representation out there Um, see taxpayers own the north 23rd site of the police station yet. We have to buy it from ourselves Uh to to use it as a police station I think there's a lot of examples that the shared services that we're talking a lot about the county tends to point the finger At the city really needs to start at the county level And I do hope the study shows some of that and I do we can use some of that But I can't support this because it looks to us as if we're the roadblock to shared services. I do believe that's not the case Do you know they're just all of the press? Thank you mayor Now I can ask my question this letter that we have for miss lana stare addresses some key questions about financial cost and Space and so forth and I see that they're very pertinent to this resolution that is being considered right now I don't see it. It's been referred to any committee. No it was brought into the communication And she just wanted me to share the information if I wanted to with the council That's why I just let it later on your desk today So it's not going to get referred it can be referred if you wanted to go to committee it can go there to committee to discuss it It's up to the alderman But I wanted to get you the information out there because I knew the vote was coming up tonight I'd ask that you refer it please to a finance Okay, that can be done Hang on we'll do that. Uh, just communication You can have my copy send it to finance Okay Okay under discussion alderman warner I thank you your honor again, you know, I have no problem with an independent group paying for a start paying for a study and bringing It's finance to us I won't support sending this through as it is with these amendments because I believe that there's more amendments that should be made to it uh And uh, and I'd like to see the document with all the verbiage right on the document instead of crossed out and And things like this and I think we could bring that back and I'd probably be supportive of that Um, I do however have some real concerns with some of the players and the whole issue That that brought this forward and uh, that's not the friends because I understand the friends concerns quite well Uh, and overall their concerns are valid I believe But some of the others involved had made me think deeply about their motivations I'd like to know if some older persons were working behind the backs of the mayor and the council to subvert the open meeting process I'd like the county to tell me who elected adam pain To work to subvert city government I I know I didn't he's the county's administrative coordinator not a city employee And when I look back at the recent press articles, especially the one on december 11th, it bothered me Was he working on his own time or on the taxpayer dollar to undermine the city's elected officials? That bothers me Someone needs to find out what was going on there and I would hope the county board looks into this I do not believe his actions were proper The next thing is beyond that How can I or any one of us agree to the results of a study before we know what those results are? I certainly cannot and would hope no member of the council would If we rewrite this document and bring it back in a form that is acceptable to us to send forward and say yes We will review The study when it comes in I'm fine with that But there's other parts of the verbiage in here that we would have to change and we have a document that is All marked up and stripped and we really don't understand what we're agreeing to It should come back so we can see it and understand what we're agreeing to They can go ahead with their study now because they're going to get the support of the council. I believe that You know, I can't not stress enough the fact that I believe it is okay for those interested to do a study on shared services I'd rather use their money than to use city taxpayer dollars But when complete they can bring those results to us Then we can review them and work to implement those we believe are right for the city But to just say today, okay Whatever the results We agree That would not be right and I cannot support that I say revise it bring it back And uh, some of the issues, uh, eric job mentioned regarding the county. Yeah, they are a player in this too But uh, I don't see a whole lot of input on them We tried to hold shared services meetings and they refused to hold them We wanted to hold them on a library no response. Nope. Sorry So, you know, it takes two to tango on this and I think they should go forward with their study But I I think right now I'd like to see this document come back with verbiage in it that We can read every word of it and understand what it means instead of things crossed out And I think that's a responsible thing to do two weeks. It'll be back January 3rd Alderman Mani Thank you. I just want to note clearly in my mind all we're saying is the final result is that we will consider the report There's nothing mandatory in it. Do we maintain our responsibility? One more time Alderman Walker Let's take care of me. Perhaps we should be sending this committee to get rewritten and brought back on January 3rd And I would so move Second What committee? Shared services committee or The strategic fiscal plan I would I would expect strategic fiscal plan would be a good candidate So I moved to forward this document to strategic fiscal plan We have motion to second be for us under discussion I would ask This goes to strategic fiscal plan that you have to friends with you When you draft this document if you're going to redraft it that you understand everything and have them with you in that committee for their input in this document I believe Alderman graff is chairman of that Alderman graff That are right All right I think it was very important because we did bring this document forward and to show a good faith of shared services Which we've been asking so Alderman I guess I would ask for to be referred to the committee on shared services, which the county is a part of as well Is a joint committee? Is that correct? Correct Okay, I guess I would ask for to be referred there to see if the county is willing to in good faith also pursue this path as well Okay, he got Alderman Well, if it goes to strategic fiscal planning and they're going to have friends there Invite county invite the county boys over And if they show fine and dandy if not Show us again Joint meeting would that be all right Acceptable If it's a joint meeting it would be acceptable I think the committee format would give them an actual voice that could go on record versus just a Interested public party that actually be on that committee. So I'd ask that would be a joint committee meeting. Okay, very good Alderman order All right, your honor if it goes to strategic fiscal plan before we give it to the county We should probably have it rewritten and I think if we did that in there And then we got together with the colony on a shared service thing or they can come to that meeting and help us rewrite it But that's what I was hoping a joint meeting. We need to get a document that Has everything in it that is wanted in there if it's We have a motion to send us to strategic fiscal plan Along with inviting county and their friends to be there to rewrite this document under discussion Hearing not all in favor Opposed Motion carried 1830 Whoa Alderman montmere. Thank you, mr. Mayor. So we're not voting on the resolution that was Presented and seconded. It's being referred for sending it to strategic for You want a roll call on that All of them friends want the roll call on that on the referral Alderman for us Okay, this is a this is a roll call for referral to strategic a joint meeting, right? Um surda graph lauks mani montamere prez rinflash sagali stefan manachron vander wheel warner bowman burg bonnet 11 eyes four nos motion carried okay Now all of them and stefan I believe I need suspension of the rules document 1838 I would ask yeah, let's read the document by alderman stefan repealing resolution 450405 and approving the Terms and conditions of the ground lease of the redevelopment authority land in the south pier district to Doyle's property of shabuigan llc You want to take both 1839 also? If I cut I need suspension on both. Yeah, and that would be for the ground lease for the triple play Real estate, so We have a motion motion in a second before us for suspension of the rules. Is there any objections of suspension of the rules? Any objections Hearing none proceed both of these documents your honor Continuations of tenants that are Going to build stuff at the south pier district. I don't know if you have any questions Paulette is here. She could answer them or the individuals are here also Otherwise I would make the motion that the resolution to put upon its passage Moving a second a resolution of both of them be put upon their passage under discussion alderman warner I think your honor I just wanted to mention also these two are ground leases for Doyle properties and triple play a real estate And during a south pier district project I think that both of these are going to result in increased development and contribute to the success of the south pier district I think that's important I think this is more solid evidence of the bright future for shabuagan's riverfront and lakefront I agree There's another discussion. Would you call her old please graph? laux mani monta mayor Perez Rindflash sagali stefan van akron van der wheel warner bowman Berg bonnet and serda 15 eyes Motion carry thank you for coming in 1840 by alderman groff reinflashenberg authorizing the city to enter into a contract for obtaining medical stop-loss insurance alderman groff And I believe I need suspension on this We have a motion before us for suspension. Is there any objections to suspension? Are you done? Yeah, and I moved that the resolution be put upon its passage Moved to second the resolution be put upon its passage under discussion I just under discussion why we asked for suspension We're acting on this tonight as there are several people that would like to take advantage of this And this is um An area that's basically a win-win for both the city and the employees Whereas the city wins because we we will no longer have to Will be required to pay the fight attacks on on this particular investment that is made in this program and the Employee wins because I'm they're able to save these funds and use them after all the job. It's motion Stop lost 1840 this is the stop loss Oh, excuse me, okay, I'm sorry Never mind. Okay You want to explain does someone want to explain the stop loss? Rich or Ed can All of them in Vanderbilt. Did you have a question before you I just wanted to explain why the stop loss Here you go rich This is an annual policy that we have is our layer of insurance for our health benefits We're self-insured for the first dollars of all claims up to the first hundred thousand dollars For each individual and then the stop loss kicks in at that point on the specific stop loss policy And so this this is an annual policy. So the effective data is January 1st So we want to get it in place here now and so we we have coverage for January 1st before we have any other event This is with Zurich again the same policy Coverage that we've had in the past similar parameters to the past The cost has increased about 35 percent. That's part of what we have seen as a trend in in health cost Okay There's a lot of discussion. Would you call her old please lokes Manny Montemay or Perez been flesh Segali Stefan Van Akron Vanderwheel Warner Bowman Berg Bonet Serta and graph 15 eyes motion carried 1841 and 42 will lie over 1843 through 45 to be referred Alderman Warner I thank you. I just wanted a brief on 1845. I emailed steve thinking that Perhaps this should be dealt with tonight because it deals with our joint powers agreement with uh shiboyne county and the city Shiboyne for 9 11 systems and after talking to sue This is something we've always done after the first of your so probably can go to committee But I guess I would just like to meet sure with john chief kirk and chief xire that this isn't going to be Something if this gets passed by us in january that would impact our joint powers agreement Negatively, which is what this is for because we won't deal with this until january and committee Chief xire We've done this before I think at that time, but I just felt we should be positive I think it's been a well well standing well well accepted agreement on both parts. It's essential I don't believe there's any problems That I would expect from the county sheriff's department or Our side, so I think it would be okay Okay, and again my concern was is that it technically expires the end of december and it's an agreement in that as long as we continue on We're fine. So thank you 1846 by public works recommending filing documents submitting a communication from world and fall industry zing stating that they wish to Put the purchasing wish to put the purchasing of the shabuaga marine on hold for immediate future and Concentrate on a potential sale of the 128 slips on the river Alderman Paulman I thank you your honor. I'd move that we accept and adopt the report a committee Moved in second to accept and adopt report a committee under discussion. Well, thank you again um The reason that we'd like to file this of course is uh several I have three items here that I'd like to just let the council and the rest of the public know Selling the riverfront's Slips is not on our best interest Due to the grants that we've been given by the federal and state governments If in the event we would Like to sell these properties we would end up having to repay these grants back to the states and the federal governments Leasing these slips is actually one of the profitable things that the city does do um, Leave it or not And the third item of course is that it's uh in the best interest of the city to retain the slips and continue as we've been doing in the past Just another discussion all in favor Opposed 1847 by law and licensing recommending denying taxicab drivers license 6627 based on a failure to reveal the applicant's full criminal record In his habitual criminality Alderman Boney, thank you, your honor Um, I'd like to make a motion to accept and adopt the report of committee We have motion to second be forth under discussion Thank you committee. I'd like to request to see if Steve Broder is present Steve Broder Please note that Steve Broder is not present Under discussion. Um, this is a document that we had seen referring to license 6627 for Steve Broder for taxicab drivers license um, it was unanimously voted on by the committee to deny the license and this is due to 27 Convictions over eight years. He failed to report all but one That's four felonies and last felony was in 2004 Thank you, honor Okay, if we have no Good discussion Roll call, please Montemay or Perez Rindflash Segali Stefan Van Akron Vanderwheel Warner Bauman Berg Bonet Serda Graf Lauchs and Manny 15 ayes Motion carried 1848 by finance recommending adopting the ban each care retirement health savings program from non-represented City employees all of them across I believe any suspension your honor We have a motion in second for suspension. Is there any objections? Very none proceed Any other move that the rcb accepted and adopted and the resolution be put upon its passage We have motion in second before us that rcb accepted and adopted resolution be put upon this passage Then your honor, um, at this time I I need to make an amendment on the Um section that's Entitled retirement health savings adoption agreement, which is connected to the resolution On page 12 The agreement starts off on page 11. The second page of the agreement is 12 Under section six contribution sources and amounts Under a mandatory contributions The section that says definition of earnings That should read gross earnings as a definition of earnings And I would make that in the form of a motion second We have amendment a motion to amend In a second. Is there any discussion amendment? Not all in favor Why opposed motion carried all in the graph then your honor as amended I'd move that the um Rc and the um rcb accepted and adopted the resolution be put upon its passage and that the um Correction be made then in the agreement We have motion in second before us after all the discussion. Would you call her old please? Prez Rin Flesch Sigali Stefan Van Akron Van Der