 Hello, and welcome to the drum history podcast. I'm your host Bart van der Zee and today we are joined by Mr Henrique de Almeida. Henrique, welcome man. Hey Bart, thanks so much for having me on the show First of all, I want to tell you that I'm a fan. I listen to your podcast constantly and you are positive force In our industry and congratulations to you. I hope that you keep doing what are you doing because it's really awesome What are you doing? So congrats on that? Thank you. This is a super interesting episode I'm going to kind of talk about the episode and then I have to do a quick patreon shout out But before we do I want to tell people what we're talking about today is and this was your idea And I think it was great is making a living as a professional drummer and teacher Going to be tips and tricks on how to do it You know, maybe how things have changed over the years You know, like what people can expect when they go out and do it manage your expectations Maybe people think they're going to become a millionaire overnight doing it Maybe that's not the case right away, but maybe it is for some people. So we're going to talk about all that very soon, but Real quick Henrique before we start I got to mention this There's a new upper tier patreon member ricks drum shop who's been on The patreon for a while just bumped it up and they get a shout out now So I want to mention that ricks drum shop is going to be doing the first ever rva drum show January 20th 2024 from 11 a.m to 6 p.m in richmond virginia There's going to be a ton of drum builders. There's going to be performances tickets are only $15. So check that out rva drum show January 20th for more info. Just check out ricks drum shop rva on instagram and you can you can get everything you want there So all that being said, henrique, let's jump in here, man I think so you are a professional drummer. You're a college professor with berkeley You're an author composer band leader clinician Which right off the bat that tells us that to be a professional drummer You have to do a lot of different things. You have to wear a lot of different hats. So We're going to talk more about your background. You're amazing, you know talents and skills as we go but Let's just jump in here, man How do you recommend that people start this journey of being a professional Drummer, I think in my opinion the first thing that has to happen is the training, right? You have to acquire a lot of experience and it's a process as we all know that And of course, you know, I was born in 1965 where things are a lot different than it is now You know, imagine a situation without the internet. No iPhones. No itunes And at the time people still made a great living just performing So, uh, historically, you know when you are a drummer on the 70s and 80s, you know A lot of people including myself made a living just playing the drums with bands. You either play live Go on tour with bands And I did that or you recording or even Some guys did what I did. I worked for RCA records. I was born in brazil and I I was in recief, which is northeast But as I go right before going to college, I was in Rio de Janeiro working for RCA records So at on the beginning was, uh, you know Recording playing but now is different. Like you said, you know, I think if you want to be a professional musician today Um, you need to be doing a lot of different things not only Be on your instrument like if you're a bass player or whatever instrument you play In my opinion and it's what I observe and what I do myself is you have to Do different things like I do publishing I own a brick and mortar school our online school. So I think My suggestion is more you diversify your skills and gain more skills the better Yeah, and and yes the drum set coach academy is your business, which is awesome and You just kind of give off this like, uh, you make me want to learn drums with you which I think is part of it because when people are Wanting to work with a drummer they want to Like that person and spend time with them which I think is true across the board of being in a band People want to be around you. They want to spend time with you, you know, but Just backing up real quick because that's a great point to start with of how it used to be You'd perform You would record You'd make money. You'd support your family as a musician to kind of learn where we came from. What do you think ended that? Was it the the change of like spotify and you know Napster back in the day that made it so that isn't really a viable way to make a living for most drummers anymore I think the whole sharing thing When itunes came and you sat in a song for 99 cents, you know, I remember in the last cd that I record years ago You know, it's $10,000 $5,000 to do a record to hire musicians to go to the studio And then, you know, they want to sell the whole cd for 99 cents a song Yeah, you know but you know On the old days the model when I when I was playing with a big pop star in brazil the model was this You you do a national tour in an international tour with the new songs Then you go to the studio and you did a record you did a LP, right? And then you go on the tour To promote the record. So you sold ticket sales and you sold records And now it's a little different, right? Like I know a lot of people that go the people that still go on tour, which is a lot less They make more money selling merchandise hats and shirts and And then they kind of giving the music away, you know Ticket sales and then I came from a generation where When I was on tour, you know, I used to play on soccer stadiums and trucks Big trucks would take all the gear who take the stage sound equipment and the band was flying everywhere You know, usually paid by the label Yeah, and then you pull up on a city and they set up the stage and the lights and the PA and everything and you So so this doesn't exist anymore. Most bands first of all, there's no trucks. Okay Venues now have their own sound you get what you get, you know, maybe you travel to symbols But you play on what a backline drum. So it's a whole different industry And then the new generation It's they're growing up with this mentality that everything is free, right? Music is free. We can share But I would like to if I may Talk about two things that Is very important That I mentioned to my students at Berkeley. By the way, I just resigned from Berkeley Last august to go full-time on my two businesses. Just for the rats. Yeah I'm full-time with the drum set coach academy here and the drum set coach.com. I love Burke was amazing job, but we Really didn't enjoy the lifestyle of the east coast I have a 12 year old and a 15 year old and my quality of life in colorad is much better lifestyle anyway But here's something that I hope helps young musicians if you are teenager And if you're thinking about making a living as a drummer I want you to think about two things and I share that with my students at Berkeley You know, I I've been teaching Thousands of lessons just on my new school right now last summer I counted because everything is on my phone my schedule is on my phone Last summer we crossed the four thousand sessions. So it's probably six thousand lessons. Wow Just on my school doesn't count The you know, 11 12 years of Berkeley. I mean so I kind of have a lot of people Yeah, so I asked them to think about two things and I hope this can help other people out there There is art the art of drumming. Okay, what is the art of drumming? It's like Playing the drums Because you love the drums play what you want to play And start what you want to do. So the art of drumming, right? And we have people who took these instruments abilities to a very high level very high level artistically We can name thousands of people like that, but let's lame one. Let's say Terry Bosio for instance That's so unique what he does right so artistic Yeah, and this is something that you can do for the rest of your life But if you want to be on the on the workforce if you want to make money Playing drums, you want to be a professional drummer You don't have to stop the artistic side, but if you want to be on the workforce What do I mean by that if you want to be a member of a society of drummers that actually I'm making and leaving playing the drums Right, then it's different. It's a different path That you're going to have to have because you have to think about service I tell that in every class that I teach to these they actually I just asked this This week in a class that I was teaching. What's the difference between a professional drummer and an amateur drummer? And you've got all kinds of answers, but very rarely somebody gives the answers that I'm looking for which is The difference between I'm a two drummer in a professional drummer is the professional drummer get paid Right, I mean that's I think that's kind of the definition of being pro or professional in my opinion is You do it and you make money doing it Because then you can support in some capacity yourself. I think pro means You're doing it and getting paid for it. Yeah So if you want to do that Right, if you really want to do that, you're going to have to get some skills That are going to be priority Let's say you're 18 year old and somebody's telling man, you have to find your own sound You have to find yourself which is awesome. But if you can't read music, you don't know styles Your drum doesn't sound good. You're not on time. You're not there is a set of things that you're going to have to have In order to participate on your workforce, which is being hired to provide a service to somebody else So it's not about you So that's one tip, you know, think about when you're in a situation like if somebody asked me to Go record their music or play with their band My job there is not to arrive there and show everybody my drum skills or how good I am as a drummer or whatever My primary job is to get in the situation And that's what worked for me. You know, I don't know everybody's different But I can only tell you what I did right is to quickly know. What am I doing here? Why I'm here And what can I do to quickly help? Whoever's paying me right playing help them Achieve their goal. So in order to do that, I have to have a lot of skills So that's why I teach in practice hand technique Foot technique coordination snare reading chart reading brazilian styles are for cuban styles Big all kinds of jazz styles that why you need to have all this stuff Is in order to develop develop the flexibility to provide the service To a larger range of customers You understand, so that's a little different than somebody who I give you an example. Do you know who daru jones is? Yes I mean, that's artistic. Look at his drum set Look at his drum set up and yeah, I saw him. He did a clinic here at badges drum shop Two years ago. So I saw it in person and It's funky, man. Yeah, I couldn't do that because I I have to have a drum set That if you call me to do a big band job brazilian afro-cuban Generic have to sound a certain way for me. Yeah, I couldn't go in there Here's my drums. My bass drum is a water bottle My my ride is a paper box. It's cool. But I really didn't make money like that So you're like a swiss army knife of drumming where you just boom. I need to do this today Boom. I need to do that tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah, okay. So and the other thing is like The setup that I have here is the same for 30 years Because back on the day honi studio was a thing when I did sessions, I don't know what I'm going to play, right? So, yeah, I I walk in there might be afro-cuban. So I got some cowbells. It might be a rock thing I got a double pedal in there. It might be a jazz thing. So I had to tune my toms All the single ply on the toms double ply on the floor toms might be a latin thing might be a So it has to be a a drum set and cymbals that was not extreme You know, it's not a rock. It's not a jazz kid. It's not a latin kid But I can do I can do everything with these drums. Does it make sense? So having a proper gear So this is something that's the core of the Way of thinking if you want to be on the workforce Which now is changing a lot, right now Yeah, I personally my main income does not come from live performances, you know, or even studio performance is coming from My own company, you know, yeah well To to that was all amazing So and I want to mention this too you said this before and we can dive deeper into each one And I have a few questions specifically that I want to ask you but you said to me before we started That drum set academy is is a is a source of income brick and mortar online selling products is a source of income gigging lower on the totem pole is a source of income conventions and and sort of, uh, you know Nahum and and clinics and things like that and then more outside of the box things are sources of income So what I'm getting from this and from anything like again My background is an audio engineer as I worked as a session drummer At the studio where I did the audio engineering because it was easy Hey, can you come down the hall play on this session? Which means I just got paid less because I was already working there But you just need to do the work. It's not there's not an easy Way to do it really. I think that's maybe worth saying is like and it's true with anything really is Someone wants the gig just as much as you do maybe more and if they're willing to work harder than you they'll probably They'll probably get it over you because you know, but there's always that that factor of yes, that person works hard But but person b doesn't know when to close their mouth So I'm going to give it to person a there's there's that like UK you're a great drummer, but this person is annoying So we're gonna give it to you this episode is brought to you by yana tech Yana tech is happy to offer all natural products to help keep you at the top of your creativity Yana tech's formulas were created for musicians by nicolas magrone Who has worked in the natural product industry for over 20 years and is also a working musician and teacher of all things drum related He understands the wellness demands that being a musician requires Empower yourself and your creativity with yana tech's flagship product magnum mind Magnum mind is an all-natural new tropic formulation designed to support cognition memory and mood This helps keep you sharp on the road in the studio or in the rehearsal space Keep those pesky germs at bay with their immune supporting formula defense four with vitamin c vitamin d3 Zinc and quercetin This can support your wellness while traveling working long days and nights in the studio or just encountering the demands of daily life They also offer wild mountain oregano oil and capsules to help protect you during the cold and flu season Throw a bottle in your carry-on to help shield you when the weather gets too cold for comfort Use code drum history 15 for 15 off your order Find yana tech online at yana tech dot store. That's y a n a tech dot store And also readers of the popular magazine downbeat can also find yana tech in the current issue And in the upcoming winter issue featured at the 2024 winter nam show Thanks to yana tech for sponsoring this episode. Yeah, plus, you know, everybody wants to play with sting, but can you right? so, yeah, it's like, uh, you know The most important jobs that I ever got in my life You know, like teaching at berkeley playing with glories stefan playing with uh, victor wooden play with Dave vallison from mega das playing, you know getting the gig with the air force academy band. None of those gigs zero Came from our youtube quick tip from a marketing drummer, you know, he's uh, he's the first quick tip He's a cool fill million views. None of my Really significant achievements came from that. He came from a lot of work You know, and so you want to be the guy that uh, if you if you want to Make a living as a drummer and I'm not saying that's the only way there is guys I mean, look at elvin jones. He's sticked with the way he played at the beginning That was not cool for anybody the way he played, you know until he You know matt jones co-trained right elvin jones was I mean, there is ways to do that. You have to be really You know, yeah, but you know most people You know, if you want to do that basically to make a living as a drummer You're gonna have to be able to provide a service Quickly to your clients your students Your whoever is hiring you to play to play the drums or to teach the drums You have to provide a good service a good product that they're gonna be satisfied about that And that requires your training your experience and the diligence and the hard work and be organized So if you want to open a drum school like I did right you need to learn Okay, if I want to open a drum school, how do I do that? What do I need to do that? How do I develop courses? How do I get the training to do that? There is a whole set of skills that you're gonna have to have in order to Make money as a professional drummer teaching, right? Yes, and then Find a great teacher, you know for many years I was with Alan Dawson From 1988 to 95. I was with Alan Dawson and Gary Shafi So I learned to teach by having lessons with great teachers How do I develop courses? Well, I was a course designer for Berger College of Music I taught a lot of course. So you have to have an experience first In order to to get the you have to plant the seed first before you collect the fruits, you know Well, that's like that age old. Well, how do I you can't do this job unless you don't have if you don't have experience Well, how do you get experience? You need to have the job And you kind of got to figure it out We've all been there where it's like entry level position must have five years of experience and it's like But how do I get the job to begin with? But There's ways you just have to find your you know Get your toe in the door do some free stuff and I'm speaking again broad of just work in general But yeah, can I ask you all right? I've got a list of some questions here You can answer as as long or as short as you want. Yeah, but I think these might be Just like on someone's mind of You know what we're talking about with how to make a career of this Do you have to be able to read music to make a career as a drummer? This is a great question and he's how I answer thousands of students. Okay. I have a question for my answers with questions. Okay Do you think there is more gigs nowadays or less gigs? I would probably say less gigs Do you think your competition is higher or less? higher So do you think you you need to have less skills or more skills to be more competitive? More skills. That's a good So, let me give you an example Uh I was touring with a band called the falcon years jazz big band was the air force academy Premier big band group. We played Carnegie Hall jazz festivals. I had to read right to play on that band We did albums. There's a great record called sharing the free. It's one of the best big band records. I ever did that training like when I was at Berkeley Uh, the great terry lean carenton. She plays with herbie hancock if you don't know who she is She's one of my heroes. Yes She used to go my office all the time because my office was On the up and up ahead uh copy machine coffee machine microwave You know, I was like So she's the place to hang. Yeah, she used to go there to make copies, you know, and all this I always giggle because we are professional peers, but she's not my peers. She's like one of my heroes, right? So I was always giggling when she goes there, but she recommended me To do some stuff with glorie stefan, which is a mega pop star Totally and uh, no audition nothing. She just recommended and I got it, right? So I show up on the rehearsal Man, there is charts in there. I had to site read all that stuff, you know, uh, or you know Because of that I got recommended to do some stuff with uh Victor wulton He sent the music You know, I talked to him and I said, hey, do you have charts for this? He said, no, I don't have charts for this, you know, and then he goes like hey I said who's playing drums on this? Oh, this one is Steve Smith. How about these all those great drums? So I had to transcribe I had to know how to write music transcribe the charts and memorize it, you know, um Yeah gigs that gave me a lot of money. I had to read I could never got a gig as a full professor Berkeley College of Music if I don't know, you know, I had to teach chart reading actually one of the Terry Lynn Carrington came to me and said hey, I can't teach this chart reading class anymore because I'm too busy Do you want it? I took it so chart reading Snare reading is important because you know, you're talking about out of the out of the box income If you live on a city that has a community band or a symphony orchestra Or, you know, any type of Wind ensemble you can't play if you're a drummer Let's say you're not a timpani so you can't play great mallets study snare drumming because snare drumming Because I was great playing snare. I played bass drum cymbals snare little percussion So I played I have a degree in performance from southern means so I play marimba But I'm not a great mallet player. So I but I could play third part. So I made money playing orchestra Without being an orchestral expert, but because I'm a drummer and I studied those things This goes in line what we're talking about, you know If you learn how to read snare, you could get a job as a sabon on an orchestra playing bass drum cymbals snare tambourine castanets Playing third part that you can practice, you know, so reading in my opinion is essential, you know Uh, if you look at my some of my heroes, I know I'm a jazz fusion drummer. So my heroes might be people that Most rock guys don't know but Vinnie Colaiuto, Steve Smith, Dave Waco, Peter Erskine, Steve Gad Those guys read anything, you know, oh, yeah, so I would say yes Learn how to read and great news for students out there Reading require no talent. You don't need any talent to read. It's just work. Okay And I can teach you how to read. I have court read for you not to get a gig because you couldn't read is is is a sin now Learn how to learn by ear as well. I teach my students how to learn songs by ear Fast that's an investment, you know, because my degree is in jazz composition If if you are songwriter and you say Henry I want you to record this song. Here's how the song goes and you start playing the song I understand and I suggest if you want to make a career as a drummer try to learn this Understand what an intro is verse Chorus pre-chorus because I can do a block chart real fast I can listen to a song if it's simple, you know, if it's simple I can listen to a song one time and as i'm listening i'm sketching out the form and I can play it You know, yeah and things become kind of formulaic to a degree once you know the formula and Now I want to say the you know devil's advocate the other side of it, you know better than me with this stuff But there are always exceptions to the rule Where if someone's listening to this so they don't get like deflated like oh man, I don't know how to read I can never make it as a drummer, buddy rich couldn't famously read music. There's people in big huge famous Mega millionaire drummers who are famous for being in a band who don't read So yes, are you better off if you can read probably but I'm okay at reading but I would never be able to sit down. I mean you I'm on a different you're on a different planet for me, but um I played hundreds of sessions working at a studio playing on commercials and jingles and I had a relationship there, but I would say that it was because I would chart it out like you said with the block chart or four times chorus Three times and then I would do a little key at the top with the beat I was playing And I did fine now what I have maybe gotten the gig if I didn't know them and I just came in and I It's it's different. Don't be disencouraged if you can't read, but I'm telling you it's not that complicated find a good teacher because It's my experience that most people that made a career like denny chambers can't read Okay, yeah, but I played with a lot of people that play with body rich I played few wilson waynaz greg hopkins limby vian all those guys a body rich alumni now, um I'm telling you this most people that I know that can't read and playing bands either they are part of a band Or they're playing rock and roll, you know if you yeah, I can show you recordings Like, uh, you know, I did a tour featuring the drum set and I was playing the music of pat metheny One of the songs is the god in sky you won't be able to I mean you can unless you really fast memorizing things for instance denny's chambers You know, I was I was at berkeley on time and um I was talking to victor wooten. He goes, what are you doing right now? And and I said i'm gonna go home and he said hey, i'm rehearsing upstairs with denny's Do you want to check it out? I said, yeah, I want to check it out So I go up there and it's just denny's chambers and him And uh saxophone player forgot his name. He plays with uh mike sterns a lot, you know Yeah, just the three of them there and i'm there and uh, uh, steve bailey is the chairman of the base department i'm just sitting there watching this right and They're rehearsing And denny's is trying to learn the songs, you know, I stayed there for a while. There's no charge So it takes a while because they have to record. So then I went home And then a few months later. I saw some youtube videos So denny's doesn't read but I wouldn't take this as a model because Dennis chambers is not a normal drummer. Okay. No, I call You know, like you have the top drummers and you have what I call top of the top He's the top. He's like one of the few Top of why I say that is because yeah, he can't read So a lot of drummers could site read all that immediately But if you see denny's chambers playing that a week later two weeks later Nobody's gonna be playing like he's Yeah, you know, it's gonna it's gonna be ridiculous. So so basically it depends. What do you want to do if you want to be able to Walk in a place And play if chi korea. I know he passed You know, I can say that without without a heavy heart that It's gonna be very few gigs that I think I wouldn't take because I can't do it If you want to do that if you want to be able to play a larger range of gigs faster I recommend you read because there is a lot of stuff that you're gonna be excluded from that income, you know, yeah Yeah, opens up doors. Um, all right, but let's talk about something now another kind of question to bring up would be networking Yeah, how important it is Um, for me, I have found that uh in my experience being either a drummer audio engineer doing video stuff Really one of the most important things Is is being able to talk to people being able to know when to not talk Pretty much every gig of any kind I've ever gotten has come from a previous gig and has come from a recommendation or The networking you go to these events and and it's you know, it's it's to me. It seems very very important What's your thoughts on on networking and working and talking with other musicians to get more gigs? Yeah, I Kind of uh, we're talking about how the industry changed, right, especially with the pandemic and all that stuff So i'm gonna talk a little bit about the past and the present because in the past. Yes I had to really go out to jump sessions just show my face talk to as many people as possible because In the past my main goal is to get more live gigs and more studio gigs As I got older and you know had Miles and max start being a father with two kids Going on tour was not really Something that I really start to prioritize because in order to make money On live performance, I'll have to go out for three months four months Maybe sometimes when a tour ended and I thought I was gonna go home. You don't go home You go to europe or you go to I don't do that anymore, right? also The pay kind of went down significantly So when I got my gig at berkeley Is such a great salary, you know six figure salary. I got the luxury since 2011 I only play gigs that I want to play because I made such a great money just teaching. I didn't have to take gigs that I didn't like so My networks shift from Trying to get more live gigs to maybe get more involved into education. So it's a different networking, you know And also right now in the present I'm so busy but like I I have to wake up at five or six in the morning To practice here for a couple of hours Then I homeschool my kids and I get in the car and I go to my school around new and I teach No stop from the one. Well, I have little breaks, but it's from the one in the afternoon to 8 p.m I'm working Yeah, and I'm full. I mean if we look at my phone is like So so I really don't have time Or I need to be networked, but that takes a while to get to where I I'm not saying that you that I don't need Network no, of course, but you're there you've reached Kind of what you're trying to achieve Where to check in a little bit we're talking about how to Start to make a living as a professional drummer. You are Doing it. You've been there. So so yeah, you've kind of after a while You don't need to be doing all the running around. Yeah for a young musician I would say if you still live with your parents You know or you are adult young adult and you thinking about really going To do a career with music On the beginning If you don't have the experience you have to play for almost just say yes to everything I did that. I don't do that anymore, but you have to do that because You know when I talked about workforce and artistry, right? He's another nugget for everybody that I think is going to help people. Okay Uh Think about this the first priority to make a living as a professional musician Is acquire knowledge Right acquire knowledge and I'm going to say something here that might be controversial. Okay I I grew up as a street musician in brazil, okay Meaning I didn't go to school first. I start playing like everybody playing bands By the time I went to the conservatory to get training harmony year train all that I was already playing bands, right? Then I toured all over the world in brazil Then I go to berkeley. So my first semester berkeley. I was about 23 years old I already played carney hall international tours the direct. I'm a student Yeah, but I had the street experience. So don't let my master's degree fool you I have a degree in jazz composition a master's degree. So I know academia And I I taught college at saldermis and taught at the berkeley college of music And I designed so I have the academic stuff, but I have the street stuff meaning like You have to I don't know today if I want my son to go to berkeley and pay 500 000 dollars and start his career A business plan with 500 000 in that, you know, yeah, that's what it's controversial You can if you don't if instead of You know taking a loan for 500 000 to pay college out By property and by the time you my age you can probably buy the whole college. Okay, so But take lessons. So priority number one Get knowledge, right? You have to learn stuff Learn stuff how you do that Private lessons learn how to record learn video learn about whatever you want to learn about learn learn Find a mentor find the teacher find people that are doing what you want to do successfully, right? Do I don't take financial advice from a guy that's bankrupt? Or marriage advice from a divorced guy investment from the homeless, you know I look at somebody. It's like well, this guy is doing that successful. Let's study that so So acquire knowledge now Here's what I say that you need to say yes to everything because once you acquire knowledge you have to test it How you test your knowledge, right? You test your knowledge by doing mistakes you go to a gig you get fired. Why did you get fired? You go to a gig What you're doing is not working you have to try something else. That's the beautiful thing So don't be afraid of that. That's the best because you get in your knowledge and you test in your knowledge Fail fail fail success success fail fail. So why this is important because The third level is wisdom. How do you how can you become wise like experience? How you become wise wisdom is a result of acquiring knowledge Testing the knowledge now I go to a situation and I know because of statistics 90 percent of the time These work on these situations I might use that because when I did that Work to 90 percent of the time like Steve get I was listening to a documentary and I think was um, Eric clapped would say well, Steve He plays the right thing right away You know Steve got plays the right thing right away. So Took him years to be able to do that. Sure. You know like like what are you doing? You did how many episodes you're doing now? This is 226 or something. Yeah, you know how this go by now But yeah, you didn't start like that No, so acquire knowledge Test the knowledge become wise by learned by mistakes. So you can now Figure out mistakes are going to still happen. But it's going to be less and less. So that's another thing if you're making your notes on this workforce versus artistry do both but understand that You know, let's say you say man. I hate jazz Fine, I don't even have you know, because I had a student sometimes at Berkeley They need to learn how to play jazz and brushes some students. I don't even own a brush. I hate jazz. I tell them That's fine. Just understand the consequences of your actions If you don't do that, you're going to have last gigs and that's totally fine. You know, you're right, man So so artistry and workforce work on them together And then also think about acquiring the knowledge test the knowledge and hopefully become wise This is going to help you to make a living as a drummer Absolutely, uh very well put All right, uh next one that i'm thinking that I think might be applicable to a lot of people where you're almost, um Uh to be a professional drummer It seems like and with your list especially with you and the drum set coach academy it very much as Being a professional drummer and being a teacher seem to go hand in hand like Through college. I worked as a even late at the end of high school I worked as a private teacher going to people's house Then I worked as a teacher at sam ash then I worked at the drum center of Cincinnati and I really enjoyed teaching Working with kids. It's great. I think it takes a certain personality type to deal with little kids a lot You can tell in five seconds. You have that. I mean, you're a patient kind of nice fun guy Um, but what about if you don't like kids if you don't want to be a teacher How do you go about being a professional drummer? If you don't want to do that if you don't want to start and do courses and teach you just want to play How do you go about doing that in 2023 almost 2024 when we're recording this? Well, you know they I think the business model I think being a parent helped me work with little kids because I like I told you I work with people like You know Mark Walker, Dave Gary bow the bill Gibson. This is like top of the line drummers But I do teach beginners eight years old and 10 years old It takes patience. Yeah, it's not for everybody. But uh before I go into just playing the drums somebody who doesn't want to teach Right, that's what you mentioned. That's the question. Um You know the business model when I was at Berkeley in the late 80s to mid 90s was this Okay You if you are rock pop guy, you go to lois angeles and hopefully Get a big break with your band or find a famous pop rock band That has a label to go on tour. That was the business model for the rock guys They would go to lois angeles, you know, and here's a couple of examples of my friends who went to school with me like John blackwell, you know, he he wasn't to pop music at school He goes to la he he hooked up with prince. Everybody knows that story, right? Yeah, Antonio Sanchez He was into jazz the business model for the jazz guys, including myself was like you go to new york city And you try your best to get a gig with miles dave chic career mike sarn Uh, you know somebody a jazz famous musician So because then you create a name and do all the gigs that that's the old model I never I think one of the things that helps You know, I talked to my friend once in a while billy cobbin about this like he he always questioned things That's why he played open-handed, right? Because when he went to the lessons as a little kid the teacher goes He goes, why I have to play like this, you know I always question because every time I went to new york The people that follow that business plan They leave like not so good. They are broke, you know, the percentage of the guys that did what antonio sanchez did to play It's like we have one antonio sanchez and 200 guys that didn't do that too many drummers to There's the the ratio of amazing drummers to famous jazz musicians who need drummers is not equal Yeah, so I said, okay. I I want a master's degree Scholarship so instead of going to new york, I went to do my master. So So that's the old model. So the the new model if you don't want to teach and you just want to play the drums Then on the old days the phone rings you do networking like you said meet as many people as possible And you still can do that. It's not as much as it used to be And you're gonna have to be on somebody who's touring So your drum set skill needs to be on the up and up, right? You need to really be able To play now you're new workforcing that we talked about So if you want to not teach you better be able to read Play all the styles or if you want to just okay. I might have a metal drummer You know you narrow Go for it. Do what your heart says your life is not our life, right? But yeah The the thing i'm gonna say that changed the phone is not ringing as much now you My suggestion you need to create your own band. Let's say you say, I don't want to teach I just want to play and I play have metal So you're gonna have to create your band You know you have to be your own boss. That's what I do now, you know, I have my own school So in order to do that I don't know because you know when I was growing up in order to do that that route was this Let's say i'm in colorad springs, but it's 30 years ago 20 years ago, right? The way you do that you start with local clubs and you start a mailing list And you start to really create a tribe, right? You need a mailing followers for the band Until you start packing the clubs on your local area, right? That's that was the old model Right, then if you if you really know on this little city here You go to the clubs that are states that are touching that state, right? You start to be regional. So not only start packing those clubs Colorad Springs. I maybe I go to Denver I go to all the cities and that's the beginning of becoming national Or international, right? Yeah, but you know, I don't know I think that's the way it was If you just want to play The problem that I had with that Is when I did that I had to be out For three four months at the time on a van Playing clubs from, you know, setting up at three o'clock in the afternoon Playing a gig from Eight to one in the morning, you know get paid 200 dollars. Yeah, you know go to a motel six And then uh drive another four hours. Yes, I would go home with a pile of cash You know, like, you know, 3 000 whatever was 4 000 But man, that was tough. I don't know if I want to do that now at my age unless it's a high end Uh, that's a younger that's kind of like, uh, like, I mean, I'm 33 I'm not like super duper old But like that the idea of doing that doesn't sound as appealing to me as as as it did when I was younger because I'm like You know, I've stayed in many motel sixes That's where I stay when I go to these drum shows because I'm cheap and it's like man That is not a pleasant experience when you're like, what what's on the sheets? What's on the wall? It's like you you want to you know, you get used to this but That's again, if you work hard if you put up with the like really, you know tough Experiences That's kind of when it pays off is if you stick with it then you you can reap the benefits of Living that tough life and then things grow and you you watch it grow one by one I mean, I think that's probably still the case. Can I try to help the people that do want to teach? Can I talk a little bit? Yes? Okay, so so now on the the other end of that Let's talk about like you said teaching and I really also want to talk about because we live in an age now where courses social media YouTube let's talk about that as well. But yeah, what if you now want to want to teach? Okay, I'm gonna share with you a model a business model that work for me on every city that I ever lived Right worked in Boston worked in when I went to Mississippi to get my masters Work in Dayton, Ohio work in Colorado Springs. Then I left Colorado Springs So I don't know if we're gonna work for you guys listening but check this out Every city that I went on the beginning. I started teaching from my house, right Teach one students two three four five six once I got enough student Some cities, I don't know if they still exist But some music store they rent rooms for people to teach And then you rent the the advantage of that is like when you're teaching your house You can't teach everybody like you might play on the club and some guy like hey, man. I want to study with you I don't know this guy. I don't want him to be in my house, right? Yeah. So I stood is more professional Then if you have You know five 10 20 students on a store That's when I made my move. I always move to my own stuff. So I I rented a room Not on the music store. You can rent the office space or one time I rent a room on a re-author Building that they have the lease but they have empty office office space And then you can deal with uh electronic drums or pads if you want to teach during the day Sure, and then that's how I open my own school eventually, but that's how I started teaching at home Or teaching at a music store and creating a tribe doing You know recitals with my students creating a little tribe and then if you have 20 30 students 40 students 50 students That's a little business that you can do and you can still play you can still play and still Teach during the day playing at night, you know And you can develop little curriculum for your students And now that's how we started and then if at a higher level, it's a little different, you know, because right now Here's some ideas if you want to do a school you need to figure out What do you need to open a school, you know, you know First of all, you're going to need a drum set two pads chairs And then as if you want to take a really serious now, you know, your office needs a fax machine internet You know and and they a vacuum make it clean for mom mom mom to sit there while The son or daughter's playing the drum lesson. I mean it has to be a safe clean environment. I lobby Chairs, I have a little stage. So I have my own venue. So I when I play with my band I have my own little jazz club. I don't need to go ask anybody to do a clinic like this week Isaac Jamba is a he's getting a lot of notices a Brazilian drummer who Is getting a lot of attention. He calls me to meet me and said man, I would love to The possibility of doing a clinic at your school said don't you know, I own the place I don't need to go to a meeting, you know, I make decisions like that But if you're trying to open a music school school to have chairs in a little stage because you can do recitals You can do your clinics. You can play with your band. It's really awesome and then Create a curriculum because here's something that I think it's going to help people When I start teaching drums My relationship with students and that goes into how to make a living as a drummer, right? Yeah, you you come to have a lesson you pay me for your lesson and goodbye I don't think about you unless you call me back, right? So don't do that have a policy letter let them pay by month because one of the problems that I didn't make money was like Somebody wouldn't show up, right? So now you four-hour cancellation policy kind of thing or Or you don't do that at all You sit in there and you didn't make men. So I never do that. It's tuition You pay every month or you pay the quarter or you pay the course and then you have a policy letter you also You know, I create a curriculum So instead of just thinking about you today if you are a beginner This is what we're gonna do if you are level two level three and then up to all the way to the way I teach at Berkeley, does it make sense? So so from the first day you take your students you should have goals And so that helps your business but helps your student and it helps you to become a better teacher, you know I also want to mention too that like Uh, in my experience, I taught a lot of younger kids five six seven years old. Yeah, it's it's like it's not It it's a little like you got you know, this kid's not practicing. He's not getting better Just you can't for me it was all about you just have to be patient. Who cares if they don't practice You know, you want them to get better, but they're coming back. They're paying. They're having fun Now that I have a kid who's four and he's been taking guitar lessons It's just something for them to do but like you don't need to get hung up the same way you would if you're like Teaching a 20 year old or an 18 year old who's trying to get into music school It's like just let them have fun Don't it's all about being patient and nice and things like that and you know if the parents have a problem with it They'll let you know if you know, little jimmy's not practicing enough or whatever But so I think being patient with kids is number one, but I want to also mention that So I do a lot with social media and stuff through the podcast which This is not My social media and youtube is not exactly me sitting there playing the drums growing a brand like that I'm doing it for the podcast But I will say that I think anyone who's trying to make their social media presence grow This is not easy. It's like I work on it about four hours every day seven days a week three to four hours Uh, I mean, I remember posting things on social media in the hospital when they when kids are being born Wow, you got to work on it all the time like there's no and I've heard people say like oh, I just don't want to do it The benefits you get from being Active on social media engaging if something doesn't work Switch it up Maybe if you post videos of you playing every day and they're not getting that great of engagement Do something different try something different, but yeah, it's not easy It takes focus, but I think for people listening of you know how to be professional drummer and teacher 2024 Really build your brand because then people go to you and look and say gosh this guy's got a really big following like It legitimizes you and I can say that I've currently got a job where I'm editing video for a company They looked at what I did for drum history podcast And I got that job in a completely different industry nothing to do with drums Because of what I've done for the social presence of this so you never know How what you do here is going to affect you there and it just makes you seem bigger than you are Is what I would add pertaining to social media how to use it youtube youtube is a grind I tell you but once it starts to pay off Uh, literally pay and figuratively pay off just with your your you know your personal brand growing It's really worth it. But uh, nothing's nothing's easy. It all takes time as I'm sure you you are well aware Yeah, uh, you hit it on the head I'm gonna backtrack just a little because we're trying to help people make money as a drummer That issue like You you did some you mentioned something that I didn't know until when I opened my own school Because I moved to coloride springs right out from berkeley And i'm teaching at berkeley college of music is the best students in the world And it was like a cultural difference here because I had to understand That not everybody that takes drum lessons wants to be At the highest level. Sure. It's just fun. So some kids They take drum lessons as a Expansion of their general education like they go to swimming lessons karate And drum lessons and you have to understand who those guys are And I have kids that in high school that wish to become a professional drummer. Now, he's a tip Uh a suggestion that might help teachers out there drummers that are teaching out there I have something that I learned when I was in the military at the drum set coach academy. We have A quarterly awards four awards every quarter and student of the year, which we just presented last night by the way So we teamed up with zeugian vic first the darryl evans sonar drums all my sponsors. We have a lot of sponsors and student of the year Yesterday they got a set of symbols from zeugian Nice and the student of the quarter They get like a vic first bag a headphones Stick bag they get a bunch of stuff a splash And we we have something like this This is actually available on amazon, which is that drum set coach Journal to help little joanie practice and they they I mean i'm not going to go into this But this is a tool to help the parents at home, right? So and then you see here Uh, you know david gary bowd mark work or marrackin rob wallis This is like something that I've been using for years that it helps them track. So when they practice the parents Like they initially do the initials. So every week they bring this if it's full They get some points. So very nice So student of the quarter points are like how many snare drums you reading how many tunes, you know How many lessons you took how many recitals you did? So that encourages them to stay focused because you know, there is the quarterly award You want to be the student of the court and the reason is really not to It's not about the prizes, but it's about Encourage them when they work hard. There's some benefits to that. So that might have psychology 101 I mean, we're we're all chasing the uh You know the carrot that's dangling in front of us. You want to be working towards something Otherwise, you're just floating out there or kind of you know, you're a 12 year old like I'm practicing But I'm getting better. But why am I doing this? It's like, oh, I want to win student of the quarter And this helps you making the living as a professional drummer because you your your business Is gonna be you have retake recruiting retention expansion. Okay You got to recruit constantly because there is always student leaving the school, right? Retention these help with retention, right and expansion expansion can be from outside and from the inside Because you can expand From the inside. Let's say you take private lessons every week, but you can also take a course a lab Right, let's say you go to private lessons for a half hour every week or an hour But you also on the chart reading lab or a double base lab Or you know youtube lab or stage lab where they just do videos and play Um, now you said something also that remember when we talked about how the interest changed and you said What do you recommend for people who just want don't want to teach they just want to play drums This is new to me And you are I expert on this the social media It seems to me that is paramount and I feel bad that I don't have the time because I'm so busy But you are correct on that because I was reading this book about uh, social media And this guy was talking about the commitment of doing videos every day every day. I call feeding the beast, right? And it's so hard for me to do that every day because I don't have time. I'm busy and working But I'm gonna share something really weird here. I used to have Lower numbers because I'm I don't have the time right, but I need to make time 2024 I'm gonna try to make time but for the listeners out there listeners out there So my numbers on facebook on videos was like a thousand four hundred three hundred I started doing a video every day for two weeks Then some videos are 40 000. That's a big jump from 400 views to 40 000 views They what did I change? I just start doing a video every day, which is definitely man. It's hard So anyway, so if you listen to this listen to Bart because he's an expert on that and You know You know, well, I mean, I appreciate you saying that but I truly will say to people that they'll you know because again I'm close to instagram will freeze you out sometimes. I've been at 90 000 on there for months They sometimes it doesn't move but there's no secret. It just takes a lot of work it takes experimenting and I will say too that that uh episode 200 was that neil pierce series with paul wells, which was kind of a success Kind of benchmark for me of like whoa people really like these series. Let's do more gear series That was four and a half years into this that was 200 episodes in So you got to experiment and try different things and quality matters consistency matters You can schedule posts Just keep doing it and keep trying it and I realize what henrique is saying that it is hard. It is time consuming uh, everyone's got I mean, I've got One year old a four year old another baby on the way, but I managed to edit things four hours a day albeit I'm tired all the time and I don't really do anything but this outside of my normal eight hour Some days you work 12 hours, which I don't think any of us are I think a lot of people are familiar with doing but It's fun. No one's putting a gun to our head and making us do social media But the benefits you get from it are pretty enormous and and I would say it also it's kind of like working out where Once you do it once. Oh, I want to do that again. Oh, okay. I want to do it again I want to do it again, but you skip a week You kind of stop doing it. You skip two weeks. You skip a month. You go. Eh, you kind of forget the benefits um So so be consistent and just set yourself up for success by making it easy I plan to do a different episode on on social media with with, you know, down the road and and how it affects the industry, but um Henry because we close things out here, man. I first want I just want to say this is incredible and Full of great information that I think is is exactly what I was hoping to get out of you on how to make a career with this But um, let's talk about the drum set coach academy and where people can find you um, you've proven clearly that you you know your stuff and are very knowledgeable and Um, both as a teacher as a player, but also as a business man how to how to make a career of this So i'm sure you you give all that knowledge to your students So tell us about that and where people can take lessons with you Yes, uh Before that would you be offended if I ask you a question that I think is gonna help me and other people Of course, uh, you know, um We we're talking about We did this in hope that to inspire other people give them ideas how to make a living as a drummer, right? yeah, uh You know that the way i'm doing that I had to do a couple of things that I want to ask you how you do it because we talked before and You're so busy. We both have family. So I think we have we have similar lifestyles where We own our own business how we we juggle this with family and all that, right? Yeah so In my opinion, I think Our brains were not Originally created to get that amount of information that we get in more and more and more and more So one thing that helped me and I want to ask you a question a minute. It's like Right now I have Two bands I own my own band. So i'm doing less, right? I uh, I have my own business but I have to say no to a lot of things now because I have to be focused I have to wake up at five or six in the morning I was never I never did drugs. I was never like a heavy drinker, but I don't drink anymore because I think it's a waste of time Trying to leave a healthier Schedule I'm trying to be super organized so I think that One of the reasons that I can make a living as a drummer Is and there is hard times it's not, you know during the pandemic was great for us So on your own business like man, this is great. I'm amazed. Oh this sucks. Oh my gosh It's a whole of you know, so it stops hard times hard times good times but You have to really care and prioritize things and you have to Be diligent so my question to you before I go into how they find me. Yeah. Yeah How do you manage all that? How do you do all you do with your family and did you have to do any sacrifices? For people who listen out there that want to do what we want to do because I sacrifice a lot by Saying no to a lot of things waking up early Being like schedule. It's like yeah, like I treat like a business Like if I work for myself, would I fire myself? You know, so how do you do everything that you do and keep it? You know together. Well, that's a good question. I honestly feel like because of having such small kids I truly do now kind of feel like I'm not Driving the ship as much as I am like literally like hanging on for dear life Because of what's happening right now like I'm sort of like always like oh, I forgot to do that The sacrifices would be like I'm terrible at planning like a date to go on with my wife because I'm Booking episodes to record here or booking because for my job I shoot video and I edit video for clients and I Work three days a week for a company doing their video and their social media the question or the answer to that would be I don't do pretty much anything else. I would no matter what from about 8 p.m. To midnight I edit and work on drum history be it answering emails doing whatever and then on weekends. I do it I would just say it's it's you are setting yourself up to I set myself up to be this is what I'm going to do all the time Now if that's four hours a day times Seven days that's seven forty two like 28 to 35 hours a week working on it full time But it does make money If five years into this if I did not make money doing this like youtube can actually pay a decent amount of money I have advertising I do this I don't know if I would be doing it for fun anymore because I now truly like Pay my apportion. I pay my kids school bill with the money from youtube So it's like you do need to see real is real. It's real You do need to see the benefit of what you're doing. Yeah, but for three years it wasn't there But that was like what yeah, but that was before I had you know small kids, but now I'm literally like Um What's the word I'm looking for conditioned to just work on this All the time I haven't played in a band in about five years I play the drums every day with my kids and I play and they dance around but But I'm not playing a band right now So if I were to choose to play gigs with a band that would take precedence over the podcast But um, I've chosen that this is what I'm going to do. But like I said Because I've put so much effort and time into this It has legitimized everything else I do in my work for video and audio Absolutely and opened up the doors to be now I can do social media for people for companies because I've grown to a 90 000 instagram and 20 000 facebook because I've done it So the reward has been not only just for Drumming but it's it's um Uh, it's paid off in other ways but to really answer your question of how do I do it? I mean I feel like I am very I've gotten I've had to choose like I may not be able to answer people's emails because I'm now sitting here editing for four hours at night Because to answer in an email might take 35 minutes because they gave you a really long cool explanation of why they love This and had this piece of gear Yeah, people don't see all this stuff that goes in the background like my secret weapon is Erica my wife, right? Because yes, I don't know if you do that. We have the whole year calendar the whole year plan out We are about to blend the whole year that's gonna help and and I am old old school upstairs in the office We have a paper calendar as well, right? Yeah, just one more thing. Sorry so much stuff that I don't want to forget Fuck drummers out there that are like, man, there's no gigs on my town There is you know, I want to mention that because you said five years that you don't play on the band Since I moved here You know If you live on the town that the clubs are not paying you There is no venues. Do your own band rent a room Create I created if I play I don't understand this 30 years ago a jazz gig was a hundred dollars 30 years later a jazz gig is a hundred dollars What inflation has not you should be it did never change is less So I do my gigs on my own venue. I sell my own tickets It's not it's not a money maker, but I make more money playing if you rent a church room I find the room that you can rent put the show together with your band or your drum clinic by yourself do a clinic Rent a create basically create your own situation You're gonna be happier than having a club paying 10 bucks You know, I'm just want to say that since you mentioned that, you know Well, you're you're well first and up two things number one You're a businessman. I think that having a business mind with this whole topic will help everything that people are doing Treat yourself like a business and number two Everything I just said where I'm like working my butt off to do this. I'm doing it on purpose I'm doing it because I get to hang out with people like you No one's making me do this the benefit of going to a drum show and hearing people say I love the show is so worth it So I'm not complaining in any way. I love to work hard My my go-to is open up my computer put a movie on in the background edit drum history and I love it. It's it's amazing So, um, thank you for asking that. I appreciate being you know There's no secret though. Really. It's just it takes a ton of work. But yeah All right, Henry, let's close this out to keep it to keep it kind of at a shorter shorter episode To because the Tony Williams was for two and a half hours long. Where do they find you? Okay, the drum set coach.com is my online school You can just go you know google it the drum set coach.com and what I do there you can buy books I'm also hot some music amazon and the drum set coach academy all the information about the drum set coach academy It is at the drum set coach.com. What is the drum set coach.com? Uh, when I was teaching at Berkeley, I was a course designer the first course I designed for them They got 93 percent of royals and I got 7 percent of royals is I said no thanks So you can take real college courses that I taught at the college designed for the college This is not you know fake stuff that I came up on my basement You can take those at the drum set coach.com two ways You can take a full semester like we just graduated several classes, which is on zoom just like I teach at Berkeley online Every week there is a class you would six people eight people in class. You have midterm fine exam You got a certificate. It's not college credits because it's cheaper But it's it's the same thing that I taught at Berkeley that I designed or you can take self Pace course you can buy the course and take by yourself. It's even cheaper Right. So now since I'm a teacher what we talked about here I want you to Reveal the things that vart and I talk about if you listen to this Number one learn right if you want to make a leave as a profession You got to learn Train yourself read books take private lessons Talk to bart talk to me find a mentor talk learn learn learn number two task You got to test your knowledge. Don't don't be afraid of failure Go go rent a room do a clinic if two people show up. That's fine Do it again. Keep doing it. Keep doing it. Now if you do enough and that's not working kill it try something else, right? If you have a band you don't have any gigs find your own venue rent a room Take the initiative of being a leader test your knowledge become wise Learn by your mistakes, right become wise Yep, think about are you going to be part of the workforce or just be an artist or do both? I recommend you do both You nowadays you need to be the leader Don't think about working for somebody else waiting for that big break for somebody to hire you Yes, that's great. It happens. Don't wait for that. Create your situation Create your band create your clinic create be Auto-sufficient and have integrity, right? Like I I'm not going to go on youtube with a clown nose dress as spider-man to teach drum It's not me if that's you go for it. I am old school But those things should help you if you need help With ideas contact me. I I'll be glad to help you. I know that this was like An hour we probably need 10 hours to talk about everything we forgot but Bart. Yeah, uh before I go I want to tell you thank you Because the world right now we have wars inflation divisiveness I mean you have so many negative things in the world and I want to tell you I hope I represent a lot of people there. You're such a positive Force in my life. I go for a walk every day. I listen to your show I learn a lot you you are asking the right questions You have the right people I can tell on your heart that you have your integrity On what are you doing? And I'm so honored to be part of your podcast. Keep doing what are we doing? I listen to almost every day. So that's awesome. So you're doing a great job I hope that I appreciate that bless your family and what are you doing? I hope you keep doing that because you're helping a lot of people and you helping me For certain and if you listen to Bart You know one thing that I learned If you listen to one episode, yes, you learn but once you start listen to A lot of them starts things start to connect that that you hear from different people And I'm learning stuff that I'm applying to my business So part of making a living a professional drummer Believe or not listen to the drama history podcast is self-improvement for me You know, yeah Well, you the last thing I'll say is you mentioned before that you listen to some of thank you very much for saying all that But you you mentioned that you listen to the you know business that the company episodes and you've taken some of those Things that big brands have done and applied it to your business Which is very cool and very smart way to do it. So I appreciate the kind words and thank you to you and thank you to your wife Erica for kind of help with coordinating and and uh, it's it's cool. You've made it a family thing and Again, happy holidays to your family and thank you to everyone for listening in general I hope everyone has a great end of 2023. Thanks to all the support and just keep keep going Keep playing keep practicing. That's how you you know, if you if you're playing the drums, you're on the right path so Henry, I appreciate you being here, man. Thanks for your time. I hope that you and your family can visit in a minute Yes. Yes, absolutely. Colorado. Colorado. Colorado spring someday. We'll be there. Yes. Nice All right, thanks, Henry. God bless you and uh God bless everybody. See you soon. Keep going surround yourself with positive people