 Social Economic Rights and Accountability Project CERAP has urged President Mohamed Abu Hari to use his leadership position to urgently withdraw the names of nominees recently submitted to the Senate for confirmation as Resident Electoral Commissioners of the Independent National Electoral Commission, INEC. Now these are alleged members of the all-progressive Congress. According to reports the President had on the 26th of July sent the Senate the names of 19 Resident Electoral Commissioners for confirmation. At least four of these 19 nominees were allegedly either members of his political party or have been previously indicted for corruption. Now in a letter dated 3rd September 2022 and signed by CERAP's Deputy Director Kalaoua Lelewadari, the organization said, the combined effect of the Nigerian Constitution, 1999, has amended the Electoral Act and international standards as which is a requirement that elections must be organized by a truly independent and impartial electoral body. Well joining us to discuss this is Luwadari Kalaoua Lewadari, Deputy Director of CERAP and Tunji Abdulhamid, he is a legal practitioner. Tunji, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. Yes, Kalaoua Lewadari will be joining us in a few moments. Tunji, this seems like a deja vu to me, like we've had this conversation before. I think at the time it was Onochi that was the subject of the conversation and here we are again with CERAP making these similar allegations. Again, because these are allegations, are there anything really to go by? Yes, it's an allegation but I think there's an element of put in it because they were able to put on certain issues. Some of the nominees were able to ascertain that they were former members of APC, some of them were related to APC, the Deputy Chairman or whatever. Some of them are closer to the people in comment. In that way they can't be independent in a way because when you are an electoral body it must be seen to be not attached to anybody. If you have seen party for a party, if you have interest in a party, if you have a card carry member of a party who are not supposed to, we are not qualified in that regard because the law says you must be unpartisan person and you must be a person of integrity, so if you are of questionable character, so if you are if you are political opposite leader, in other words if you are associated with any member of the party or you have seen party for those parties or you have been having issues with them, you have been promising with them. If one of them was a late to have an independent candidate of the party 2015, so there is no way you can have independence in that regard because you must have an interest in it and for us who have trust in INEC, we must have people that don't have an alliance with any of the party in attention. Why do you think that this same similar issue keeps cropping up under the Buhari administration, especially for an administration that has zero tolerance for corruption and has promised us, don't forget Mr. President a few days ago promised that he was not going to interfere with the elections, he was not going to have a hand in whatever happens within his party, within the elections in general, but here we are having to discuss this almost similar situation to that of Ms. Onochi some time ago. It is unfortunate that he's coming from the president that seems to be honest to have integrity or transparent integrity because I remember even that of the North Island on the J, because it was punty, it was false. That's when they drew the denomination or because it was done twice or twice, I can't remember, it was sent earlier, it was rejected, it was sent again. So I think the president is not giving up to his words, nor when you claim to be a person of integrity, must do in that regard, must behave in that regard, appointing people who have connection with the party, who have a party for the party, who are members of the party, who have been aspirants under the party, there is no way they will be independent. And I don't know why the president is also repeating the same thing. Probably the president is not aware that maybe he may not know that, he may not be aware because you don't like that our president statements are not aware of the presidency that we say, maybe it's not aware, it may not be aware of it, but now that we are telling him, I think he's doing the right thing, I will draw in the question. It's unfortunate that it's coming from the president. There are those who have been pushing and campaigning for the return of certain known individuals who, when I say known, former rex, people think that are reliable, who have stood their grounds, who have been unbiased over time. One of those is of course, Mike Igini, who was the resident electoral commissioner in Aqaibom state, and we saw how he was dragged by the APC in Aqaibom state, even when he stood his grounds and called what happened within the party illegal. Many are saying that people like that should have been returned if we must have free-for-incredible elections, but that is not the case because I do not necessarily see his name on that list. Of course, you can see the stand in Aqaibom state. It's on that, you know, it's the same as anti-APC, and in that regard, you will not do that bidding, and definitely they're not going to retain it. You see, we are just mutting integrity and we're muttering to transfer honesty without following it. That is what we're seeing here. So if you want to, those kind of people are the people that should be in Aqaibom state, independent, who will not allow anybody to influence them? Whether you are coming in power or you are not in coming power or you are closer to them or not, you would stand on what is right. That is not the kind of people that the electorates and the conscience say to be a member of INEC. But unfortunately, what we are having are people who are card-calling member of the party, people who have been aspirants under the party, people who have contested election under the party and want to be elected as INEC member, it's unfortunate that people of integrity are not being put there. And it's unfortunate that the president, who should be the one leading the corruption war is the one illuminating them. That is that. So I think it drops on the corruption fight of the current presidents and the gym. Well, being joined by the deputy director of CERAP, Kolaulil Uluwadari. Mr. Uluwadari, thank you so much for joining us. It's very, very applaudable that CERAP always seeks out these discrepancies or alleged discrepancies. Or I'm choosing my words carefully here, or somewhat of, I don't know, dark spots to push out in the news because a lot of people might not have an idea who these people are until they murder INEC Rex. But CERAP always finds a way to come up with these issues and of course bring it to the fore and get Nigerians to get on top of it and start discussing it. And I want to ask quickly, do we also play a role in how these things turn out at the end of the day? Because before you joined us, I was just talking about the situation in Akwaibong state with the former Rex, Mikey Guinea, and how he was being dragged by the APC when he called them out on sudden illegalities that held within the parties during the parties primaries. So again, how do we find men and women who would be above board, who would be able to carry out their jobs without fail of favor, or any party alliances? Thank you very much. I don't think it's very hard to find men and women of a questionable character in that theory. I do not believe that integrity is that scarred in that theory. In North, that the president cannot, will not be able to atomize the constitutional office to appoint them in this kind of sensitive position. And to answer your question directly, of course, men and women play a very large role in this kind of conversation, which ultimately, we hope that the aim is to provide that very important critical mass to compel the president to act in the interest of the people and in accordance with the order of office that is sort of as president and constitutional provision. So the people who was bringing up pressure to bear on the president, knowing fully well that this is the democracy, where the people hold power, and where particularly the democratic process that we were talking about in the beginning plays an important part in Coffin that is what will happen in the next four to 80 years. So people should be bold enough to engage in discussions like this, which is very, very important for the constitutional giving of the right, after the expression, to be able not only to speak, but to impart and receive ideas. So people must work to engage. And these also include members of political parties to help, including members of the ruling of the political party. We should all understand, this is about due process. This is about the law. This is about justice not only being done, but being seen to have it done. That is why the provision of electoral and constitutional provision is very clear then, that these individuals must not only be equal in integrity, but they must not be seen in the political. It's very important. It plays a very important role in the political process. So that whatever the outcome of the election is going to be, people will see that it is free and fair. And so this is very important to understand. The election must not only be free and fair, the people will see between, you know. It's one thing to say that we want people who, well, people who are not necessarily associated with political parties, but then we know that every single human being is political, one way or the other. We will have alliances. It might not be out there. For example, journalists don't necessarily align with anybody, but at the end of the day, they cast their vote for somebody. I'm trying to go somewhere here. Now, our other guest made a case that maybe the president isn't aware of some of these things that are happening. Maybe the president doesn't even know that these people have, at one point or the other, had cases of corruption or indictments or even somewhat affiliated to his political party. For him, he sees upright and upstanding men. So can we really put that blame on Mr. President or should we be blaming other people who work in the presidency? Of course, the box stops at the table. And if let's assume that the president is ignorant of these issues, including the provisions of the law, why does he have an African overprivileged? And this is why we are having this kind of political conversation, which I believe ultimately will get into the ears of the president, either directly or for those who work for him with leadership. So while the president may claim ignorance before now, which I doubt, at least after these conversations and demands by the people, I doubt if we're able to claim this in ignorance. And this is not the first time that you've come enough to have this pointed out earlier. So why do we see this recurring if you're calling it a mistake? Well, I doubt there are mistakes, which is why we need to compel the president to answer the public's question. This is why he gained the dragons of the constitution that subjected this appointment to confirmation management. So it's a two-pronged affair. The president has nominated. Let us assume, as you have suggested, that he is ignorant. The Senate cannot ignore. And that is why our call is all the president to withdraw those things because in those things, we're not submitting the Senate. And there is little more to the Senate to do. So whether it is the president, and our letter is copied to both the Senate and the House of Representatives. If the president is not aware, the Senate should do the thing to ensure that these things, because who have been alleged? It might be an allegation at this point, but the Senate should do the job. And the president also asked of people, who cannot go to the Senate, to do their findings in the constitution to confirm whether what maintenance was taken and about some of the individuals are true or not, and then to withdraw them. So I really don't think that is a way to boost responsibility for the president, especially in this problem that they are doing at the company. So it's very stretchable. Finally, Tundi, because we're out of time, do you see us ever scaling beyond this level? Because it seems like, I said earlier when we started this conversation, it seems like a recurrence. I felt like it was a deja vu because we have had this conversation before in the Anoche situation. Will it take another administration for us to go beyond this? Because Kala Wale is saying that, oh, if the president doesn't do it, the Senate can do it. But then the Senate is filled with members, a majority of members from the APC. Again, who will they prioritize? Will they prioritize the Nigerian state or will they be prioritizing the party and the ability to win the elections at the end of the day? Tundi? And I want to commend the Seattle for their courage for raising the issue and for going to court. Yes, we got. They've been doing that. I want to see. So with the pressure from CSO and the startups going to court, I think the members of the Senate will also be worried and they want to see that, look, the righties are done. I don't see, I think they will do the right thing. They will not accept that commission because if they do, that will, that will, even if the election is fair and fair, people will still believe that it was not fair and fair because people who organize elections seem to be members of a particular party. So I think it will not go beyond this place and the right thing for the Senate is to reject the nomination or the president withdrawing the nomination and sending other names. Though it's difficult in Nigeria to say that, look, anybody that would be appointed, not one way or another, directly or indirectly, connected with any of the parties in place. But when it's glaring, you don't just do it that way. Say, look, these are, these are, you see, it is very glaring because we are told somebody contested election IPC. Somebody was sent away for corrupt parties in his business. So you can get people who are not even known to people, who are not even part of it. It may be related to indirectly or indirectly because there's no way in this country to see people who are not by work. One is either directly or indirectly related to losing in government or a particular party. And I think the right thing for Senate is to reject the nomination or the president withdrawing the nomination. Well, we have to go on, unfortunately, that's our time. Kola Waluwadare is the deputy director, and Tungi Abdullah Mead is a legal practitioner. Thank you so much, gentlemen, for being part of the conversation. All right, well, glad to have you all on the program today. And I hope that you all enjoy this conversation. Tomorrow we'll be back at 7 p.m. with politics, of course, and talking for development. But before I go, I will give you my take. Here's my take. Now, a good name, they say, is more valuable than any amount of silver or gold. This is a lesson in morality and the value of a reputation that many mothers impart on their children at a young age. Now, it is meant to create boundaries for our behavior by introducing us to the concept of shame. But when it comes to our leaders, the value of a reputation and an aversion to being shamed seems to be like a lesson they skipped over, you know? But what does he say of our leaders when integrity and impartiality never seem to rank high in their decision-making regarding nominations, to field job positions that actually require these traits? A good rule of thumb in public service is to always avoid even the appearance of impropriety. Of course, I mean, that only matters when people of, you know, who value their reputation are capable of feeling shame. For those governors and future presidents promising transparency, it's time to put integrity at the forefront of our choices for government nominations. And that's my take. I'm Mary Anna Cohn. Have a good evening.