 Okay, Bobby go ahead and kick us off. Okay. Hi everybody, welcome to the blockchain employee summer event. This is the third of a four part series. So we're trying to match qualified applicants with great blockchain jobs. So this is hosted by the Linux Foundation. So we have to abide by the antitrust policy, which is being displayed on your screen. So please take a moment to read that over. It's just how to act on a group call. This call is being recorded. So as I said, this is the third of four part series, which the final part is on August 24. And that's going to be a job fair where we meet together with the applicants and the employers. So that should be interesting and we'll have more about that in a minute. It's hosted by a bunch of us from the hyperledger meetup groups, myself on Bobby mascara, Jim Mason who should be on the call shortly. We have john carpenter, and we don't have nourish today. I think we have correct me. Excuse me. Okay, nourish will be sorry nourish will be joining in a moment. So that's we've been working for a few months to put this together for everybody. So again, the first one was in Denver, and john led a panel discussion with people from Accenture hyperledger and collido nourish gave a little information on how to get educated for these jobs. I just gave a little blockchain basics as to what these jobs kind of look like. And the next one we had employers come we had people from Google we had some people who for job recruiters and partner, people who partner with clients to fill their pipelines talk about what they want and qualified employees. So this session more, we're going to talk about how to get yourself ready for the jobs what we have a great panel of experts from awesome companies that are hiring in blockchain. And so they can absolutely tell us what they're looking for in new hires and how they're finding them and all great stuff so we have a couple questions for them in the panel. And then, again, the Indian blockchain Institute's going to talk about how to get trained for these great positions. And at the end, I'm going to show you my tricks for getting organized for job searching that makes it painless. It's a great trick. So moving right along, I'm going to turn it over to john carpenter, and he's going to introduce the panelists and get started on some questions. Thanks, Bobby, I really appreciate I see Jim's joining us so Jim you maybe you want to come off and turn on your video, that'd be great. And then what I would like to do is you know since we're going to do a little deeper dive into what companies in the blockchain space are looking for. I just kind of let the audience know a little bit about your individual backgrounds. So let's go ahead and just kick it off. And then, Josh, you want to introduce yourself and give a little bit of background about yourself, and also talk a little bit about what Accenture's doing in the blockchain space. Yeah, sure. Hi everyone, nice to meet you. My name is Josh Kraus and I'm based out of Chicago which is experiencing a ton of humidity this time of year so hopefully you guys are staying dry and staying warm. So we're working in the blockchain practice, or working rather maybe in the blockchain space with an Accenture for the past three or four years now, focus primarily on our supply chain use cases and clients. But we're focused kind of broadly across the patch, like many companies are in the space, looking not only at supply chain but also financial services and digital identity as well. Accenture with those kind of three main offerings, you know, tries to look for opportunities to create value for our clients. And yeah, we tend to structure all of our offerings and kind of bucket our talent within those three primary roles. We do also have, you know, for folks who are a bit more technology minded. We do have kind of a persistent, you know, horizontal capability that sits across all of those offerings, focused on building out relationships with blockchain vendors, looking at startups, and, you know, kind of looking at what's next and what's new in this exciting space. So that's just kind of a high level on how we're structured, you know, and happy to get into a bit more detail on some of these other questions around how you can assess, you know, what a good fit would be, and how you, you know, as an individual can can get a bit of more competitive for role depending on what you're looking to get into. Great, Josh, thanks for that. Grace, I know you're involved with a lot on the hyper ledger side but you're with consensus. So why don't you tell us a little bit about, you know, what's going on at consensus, and some of the things that also you're looking for as far as integration with hyper ledger. Sure. Thanks for having me first of all. So I'm Grace Hartley. I'm the head of the strategy and operations team for the protocols team at consensus. I've been with consensus who almost three years and a lot of my work is focused around strategic partnerships, including hyper ledger MasterCard and JP Morgan as well, and internal operations for our team. I've been here for almost three years, and I come from a consulting background actually so I worked at KPMG as a financial services first consultant prior to joining consensus. So I will be happy to talk about my transition or and how I kind of found blockchain from, from kind of a different industry for consensus though so consensus is the leading Ethereum software provider so we have a suite of Ethereum based products so the Ethereum blockchain to be clear. And we all work on different products including Infera, MetaMask, Kodify if you've heard of any of those, as well as Truffle and Diligence so we kind of cover the whole spectrum of Ethereum products. And then my team focuses on protocols so what we do is basically we like to make Ethereum enterprise ready. So we have, and we call ourselves the core team so we have two flavors of enterprise Ethereum that we develop. One is the go core encode base which was originally developed by JP Morgan and was acquired by consensus last year. And the other is hyper ledger base suit which is the hyper ledger project written in Java and Apache 2 licensed. So we like to think of ourselves as kind of providing this enterprise lens to Ethereum, and our work is kind of marrying kind of the Ethereum web three main net ecosystem to the enterprise blockchain ecosystem. And that's where hyper ledger fits in as well. I'm excited to talk to you all. Perfect Grace. Thanks for that wonderful introduction. Jim Mason, you want to give us a little bit of background on yourself and talk a little bit about what your company is doing in the blockchain space as well. Yes, I'm actually a contract blockchain practice leader, weirdo title, but I'm working with a company primarily paramount software at this point and still do some independent projects but most of our focus has been around hyper ledger fabric and a whole variety of different solutions, which is, I'll call it the probably the leader in what I call enterprise high volume transaction blockchain solutions out there today as a platform. And then I've also done some work and nice to self sovereign identity project for the state of Rhode Island last year, based on Indie areas that also worked out well, and have been in the blockchain space for a while since like 2017, which is, I guess not millions of years old but in the blockchain years it's like dog years that counts a lot I think blockchain years and dog years are the same thing. So, the other thing that's interesting is, I didn't expect to be part of any of this have anything to do with jobs and unfortunately it turns out that I actually need to hire, but my hiring is not really on fabric right now it's going to be focused on. I'll call it the supporting services, if you will, on the server side. What's interesting to me about this whole process that we're in, and, you know, appreciate having the expertise of the other speakers on the panel tonight, for sure, is that I've been a hiring manager, I've been somebody who was hired, and I've sort of had every role you can ever have relation in relation to technical employment for sure in many different organizations companies IBM Fidelity, Citizens Bank all kinds of plus small startups and medium sized companies, so I have many many different lenses to look at this stuff. The number one, I guess, thing that I guess elevates my blood pressure is what I call bad job descriptions. So hopefully we'll have a chance to talk about some of that today too. Because most of us are what I call roadkill when you get a bad job description that's poorly written. So I don't know about the other panelists but I'll say at this point I consider myself an expert on how to write a job description properly, and I don't see a lot of good ones out there for sure. Yeah, no that's a perfect point, Jim, and I think let's definitely focus on that as part of our discussion. One thing I think was brought up was perfect was grace talking about the journey. And I think anytime we're talking about you know recruitment and hiring. There's a point where a person makes that transition and that journey to get into the blockchain space. So, Grace, maybe you want to just talk a little bit about that before we kind of get into these other questions. And then, you know, Josh and Jim if you want to talk about the journey. That'd be helpful as well. It's always funny because I love to ask candidates what their journey is because it's always a little different. And I think that's probably worth mentioning first is that it's okay that everyone's coming from different lenses there's no one right path and there's a many different routes you can take please don't if you're coming like me I came from a different industry and honestly just kind of looked up I decided blockchain sounded cool. I didn't have experience I think it's a very interesting, but I think what's interesting is why I didn't have industry experience I had role experience. And I think sometimes people really get intimidated by the blockchain world and and really though you have lots of great experience it's very relevant. So, for me you know I had a consulting background which really fit into the role that I came into and then I learned the blockchain as I started and as I've gone over the years. I think when you are thinking about that process for you. I would encourage not be intimidated not being like oh because I'm not a blockchain expert or I haven't been in this space for years. I'm not a good fit. You absolutely are you have so many things to bring to the table and I also think blockchain really particularly a consensus we're really thinking about, you know, it's not just building the technology but it's a consensus and how are we thinking about building this blockchain business and many people have skills that are very relevant to that. So, and not just you know oh I've built a DLT before I, you know I'm able to build a blockchain network or anything like that I think just don't feel my recommendation the journey is that everyone has everyone's journey is different which is very normal. There is no right way, but and you always have something bring to the table and getting these other experiences that even aren't you know, blockchain related actually will be applicable and you can say, we really need someone who's great at customer success this week or we need and has that experience even if it's not the blockchain industry or we really want people with engineers with, you know, Java experience you know and we don't really find that in Ethereum but we find that in other enterprise spaces. And all those sort of things like I just, you know, don't knock yourself until you go through the process and you always can bring something to the table and your experience is relevant and I think sometimes people just don't get intimidated is really my, my point because anyone, you know, you know, particularly consensus there is no like watching experience required. You know, and we do look at roles and experiences that hopefully kind of that will build the team, you know, from a different sense as well not just kind of people who've been in the space for years and years. But yeah, I'd love to hear the other stuff so. Yeah, no that's perfect grace and that makes perfect sense so. And I think that's a lot of great encouragement for those who are joining the Colligator to really know that you know you don't have to be a DLT expert out of the gate to be making a difference in the blockchain space so. Josh you want to talk a little bit about your journey. Definitely. And I think, yeah, I mean grace brought up a lot of good points and I'm smiling because not only in kind of conversations from a hiring perspective but also just in team trainings on you know new DLT topics and things like that we always have a pre survey that says you know, ask team members to rate their kind of comfortability on certain topics. And it's almost a joke at this point that no one actually puts a full 10 out of 10 because you're always learning and you know there is really no such thing as an expert, at least maybe if they're out there right now there's very few in far between. And my personal anecdote maybe to just add kind of value to what Grace said is my own background was within supply chain and that was really kind of what got me excited. Well, you know through school and then early work experience supply chain was a huge focus of mine and you know I thought it was a growing space thought it was very interesting. And that was actually the way that I got into, you know, seeing a lot of new vendors in the space and seeing that there was a lot of discussion around this kind of new technology and that's the, you know, maybe avenue through which I kind of got into the space. You know, when I'm talking with people that's how I encourage a lot of folks, especially those who are, you know, still kind of trying to figure out what they, what their specialization is or maybe what story they want to have from kind of as they're stringing together their either career or school experiences is, you know, everyone has a kind of different angle that they're approaching from maybe you have an industry kind of depth that you wouldn't really, you know, think of otherwise or maybe you come from a specific work style or work experience that is super valuable, especially with an Accenture, you know, as a consultancy, a lot of times, you know, I'd like to remind folks, you know, almost, you know, replace blocking with any other emerging or new technology, really the core of what we're trying to do is better understand our clients problems and the more empathy that we can build with clients, you know, the better and the easier it is for us to kind of eventually get to a solution with them. What's key empathy is not necessarily that you're, you know, read up on every, you know, latest development and you know the technology inside it out, that's important, and that's, you know, a critical part of delivering value in this phase, but understanding the client's problem and showing that, you know, you are not just, you know, bringing a solution to them and looking for, you know, you're bringing a technology to them looking for kind of a problem that fits. Instead, you're, you know, you're listening to what their problems are and you're kind of co-creating, collaborating with clients on how to reach a solution. So, I encourage a lot of people to, you know, figure out kind of the industry or the, you know, kind of vertical alignment that you would have and think of that as another angle or another way to get in to the blockchain space if that's what's interesting to you. So just, yeah, another way I guess for you folks to look at the experience that they've had to date. Yeah, that's perfect, Josh. And I agree with you that supply chain is a great component of a blockchain use case and, you know, really focusing on that area is perfect. Yeah. So, Jim, I know you have a lot of development experience. So maybe you can talk about your journey to blockchain and what you're seeing. Your journey, your blockchain. Or journey to where you are now and how, you know, how you decided to look at blockchain as a core focus and, you know, look at your team that you're building out. So, Bobby, is this the point where I can ask the moderator of the panel why he asked a bad question? Because nobody wants to know how I got where I am. That's like another year discussion. So we're not going to go there. But it's too long and a waste of time, I think, for everybody. Don't follow my roadmap. Maybe Josh or Grace, maybe recommend the same thing. What I will say, though, when you're thinking about blockchain, and it's a great question to move to Grace and Josh as well, because my curious thing is most of us don't start out looking at blockchain. In fact, actually, I just talked to somebody this week, who is a college student who actually interned somewhere for an AI company saying, hey, blockchain's interesting. It's like, well, that's probably the wrong way to go there is because you read an article and heard it's interesting. It's far better to be, and Josh mentioned earlier, take a problem domain that you're working in, right? So you've got two big firms here that are both doing good stuff. Blockchain in itself, fine. If you want to be the narrow guy that finds a better consensus algorithm for somebody, then yeah, you can be deeply focused on just an algorithm with larger framework. But I say the vast majority of us, no matter whether we're technologists or we're project managers or QA people or sales people even, whatever we're doing, we're solving problems as part of the team. And most of us are, in a sense, not building the blockchain platform itself, we're using the blockchain platform in the right way to solve a business problem. And so what I see is real gaps all over the place. And I, again, I badly biased having lived through this cycle many times, not just on blockchain but on other technologies. The problem is, the stuff you read for the most part is not all that helpful in understanding how to actually have blockchain can add value, right? And that's really what the core thing is. So hopefully if you're on a team, and you're working on whatever problem space you're working in, you're getting a great understanding of where blockchain adds value. And I have to, in a sense, say bulk of what I read by what I call experts doesn't do that well at all. And so what happens is it to find the right people. The real goal would probably start with not being a blockchain expert unless I say you're one of those really narrow people that's going to be building consensus algorithm that's better than we're after something. And the real goal would be to say, I'm in a problem space, probably a background there and I can add value whether it be an eccentric consensus or somebody else. I understand that I bring an interest of I bring some skill sets to the team, but the key to it is not just watching, but every place I work in a sense each thing that I'm working on. My first skill set is am I asking the right questions. And what I see is many people don't. And that's, if I had to say where the gap is, it's between asked those who can ask to figure out the right questions to ask. And those who in a sense are working on a problem without asking the right questions. And unfortunately, but when I see solutions go bad, it's usually because the right questions weren't asked at the right time. In fact, there's a tremendous opportunity. So that's one key thing on the road. The only other thing I'll say is that there is what I call structured education all over the place right so Linux Foundation has it everybody Harvard MIT wherever you want to go your community college they all have some everybody has a course on blockchain now or many courses on blockchain. You know one thing I'll say is, as a guy who's leading teams on blockchain. The fact that most part don't have time for you to go through those courses. What I really want. It's, if you're doing it on your own break background, you know, go take the courses. But if I'm trying to get somebody up to speed on my team and I went to Josh and say hey Josh is the right guy he's a good guy to work with. I need him, you know, zero about watching what am I going to do. I'm going to grab Josh and I'm going to do what I call filled knowledge holes. So I'm going to understand first where Josh is coming from what does Josh know what is Josh strong about I know where I need to get with Josh. I'm literally going to define where the knowledge holes are and just fill those directly. And from my experience that's about four times faster than letting Josh go through what I call standard education. It gets me what I call competent, useful engineers, developers, whatever designers on their projects quicker than any other path I can figure out at this point. Okay, yeah, no I get that whole filling the knowledge gap gym and getting people on board quickly. And so the next thing I want to really kind of focus on here is from the questions that we have. And so Grace, you know, consensus hires for a lot of different roles and I think you may even have open recs yourself. So how does consensus and yourself go about, you know, define these new roles and opportunities in the blockchain space so that, you know as Jim talked about earlier you have a very nice job description that actually meets the needs of consensus. I mean, so I probably like all organizations. We do go through kind of an internal process of assessing what are our needs where our growth areas, what are, where do we want to invest more in, you know, and say, and where is there a gap in the space and, or a gap in our products and we want to double down on that and create a new team or create support functions around it. I will say, so, so there's no special sauce is what I would say on the consensus side, you know, it is just looking at the business needs and how we kind of want to grow and where our priorities are and but, and what the different products want to achieve. We offer, we have quite a few products as I mentioned at the beginning. So basically for a product development firm and how we think about, you know, how are we going to meet our customers requirements how are we going to meet our, our users requirements, you know, because we don't, you know, it's, we're working on lots of open source software. That's how we kind of assess the need. And then kind of go through a process of validating that. What I think is, you know, relevant for this group maybe to highlight is that we're thinking about like roles and what you're thinking about for what's a good fit or you're looking at the question, is this for me, I would say that consensus in particular we have I tried to count earlier but I actually lost count. I think it's over 100 open job rex at this moment. So, at this point we're hiring fast. So, again, it's not, you know, we have full steam ahead what's great about you all being interested now is that blockchain space, the blockchain space, the crypto space is growing exponentially. And we need to hire people as very quickly. So, that's probably the only thing that would be a little maybe a little different than others is that we have so many open roles, the space is going so much and our products are need so many people, which is a great problem to have that it's definitely, you know, trying to think of how do we grow and scale very quickly because of our business needs and our customer requirements. But yeah, but so that's kind of how we think about it. I mean, one is just product needs to need to grow fast. Yeah, no, I know that maybe you can even talk a little bit about the scale that consensus is at today, based on, you know, having 100 job rex open right now. Talk about the size of consensus and, you know, a little bit more about the team that's involved here. Yeah, that's a good question. So I probably should have shared that in at the beginning. So, currently consensus is a software company as I mentioned we build about a handful of products as well as have a research and development arm. We're about 500 globally. We are a remote first company. So, if you, you know, want to continue working from home like we have been open for the last year, consensus is a great option because we did it before it was cool. But so when you're thinking about kind of with consensus and how we're, and our kind of our offerings, you know, we are founded by Joe Lubin who is one of the founders of Ethereum and our mission is basically growing Ethereum and making products that help users with Ethereum. So when you're thinking about how we should, when you're thinking about if consensus is right for you, or, you know, I want to learn more, you know, if you want to be at a fast at a software development company that is basically building some of the leading products in in Ethereum and blockchain that that's how we're probably coming to the right place. I think someone had a message in the chat that, oh yeah, the remote first. Yeah, yeah. So it is 500 people globally we do hire all around the world. So it's not just even, you know, certain geographies that have to be remote it is I think just around every continent, maybe not an article. So when we're thinking about like, and you're looking for roles and the company of consensus, you know, remote working Ethereum and product development, we're not necessarily, you know, be like, if you're interested in consulting gig, more of those you'd find with Josh at Accenture, but we're definitely focused on product development. Yeah. Perfect. Thanks, Grace. Awesome. Josh, so let's talk a little bit about Accenture and finding roles and opportunities and the consulting the consulting gig. That's what it is. And new and mention this scale and scope of Accenture's operation. The group gets a feel for that as well. Sure. First on the scale and scope and just kind of how Accenture treats our group so the multi party systems and blockchain organization sits within our tech innovation practice, where we kind of keep all of our ventures and open innovation are in the labs. You know, other groups like quantum or, or, you know, robotics, VR kind of all sit in the similar portfolio to us. It's really cool just from that aspect to kind of be not only thinking about how our technology is kind of changing our clients business but also how do we interlock with our other, you know, kind of fellow incubating organizations that are kind of on the next wave of being implemented. So that's super, super exciting and definitely something that I enjoy about where our group sits. I'd say we're probably in terms of dedicated positions only looking at blockchain full time. We're over 100 at this point and we have to double headcount roughly in the next year or so. So again, you know, like we are kind of in many other lines of business blockchain, you know, definitely not unique in the sense that we're looking to onboard a ton of folks and looking for that kind of that right mix of talent. In terms of the kind of makeup of the group. Another aspect that I really enjoy about it is, it really is kind of a blend of folks coming in with a bit more of a business strategy. Folks who are kind of pure tech arcs and engineers, and then a ton of just very kind of entrepreneurial, you know, business leaders or folks who just have a huge passion for the space so kind of whatever you would resonate with. That's one side of consulting that I really, really enjoy is we because we're not as oriented around like a given product and it's kind of more, how do we pull on the right partnerships assets, you know, vendors, etc. To kind of solve different needs that our clients are coming to us with so a bit of a different angle. You know, but definitely something that's quite dynamic and you know, allows you to see kind of opportunities across the patch at a bit, you know, just a different pace and different. Yeah, different cadence I would say. In terms of how we're defining the new roles and opportunities. I think what I had mentioned around our offerings previously is a good way to think about it. So, if you, you know, are looking at one of the spaces in particular across either supply chain, financial services, or digital identity, you know, we have kind of capabilities that sit within each of those offerings and our teams. So, that's one way to pull up to those offerings in particular so that's one way to think about it. The other is of course, you know, by by market unit or geography so whether it's, you know, you have a passion for, you know, working in a given region and kind of helping clients in a given region, or if you feel that you've got kind of a particular industry or offering lens that you could bring to it. That's how we tend to tend to hire and tend to look for talent. If maybe more additional things I would add to it probably bleed into some of the other questions I might wait on it a bit but that's a good way to think about it. Yeah, in terms of size scale and how we're situated within Accenture. Okay, perfect. Yeah, that's great, Josh. Good perspective. And, Jim, you want to give us your perspective on kind of your operation and what you're looking for as far as talent, and even as far as that goes. Jim, I know you talked about really defining the job description. So maybe you also want to weigh in a little bit on that right here. Yeah, so the job. All right, I apologize. I should actually be having a beer right now to relax and calm down. I just read my own company put out a job description that was, I'll call it. I would give it about, oh, I don't know, a D plus, and I'm being generous because it is my company so I'll be nice to them D plus. So, right now, I'm not as big as we're not as big as consensus or certainly Accenture either one. They both have bigger on ramps, which is important to understand that whole process, which is why it's great that they're really here. And I'm thrilled that, in a sense, everybody in the audience gets to understand what a different type of an on ramp is. And you should, you should, it's really great to have both Josh and Grace here and really understand as they say, not what the job application is not what the job description is. None of that interview stuff is fine. It's really a journey and one know from start to finish what that journey looks like. And in the sense, if you're interested in the company, not just the role, which is really where they're coming from and I agree with that. You really want to understand the journey and the company that's a lot to learn about just outside of saying hey what's my job data engineer. In this case, I'm working with a smaller company, and we tend to have obviously a different type of an on ramp. And so there's a lot of little smaller organizations. And what you're usually looking at is probably a shorter need focused kind of the thing where you're saying hey I've got a gap right here. I do have an HR staff that's for outside consultants who's putting together a job description and so on to try to help define, in a sense, what the talent is I'm looking for and how to fill the team. And, and as a manager, on my side of the fence, if I'm any good, I'm not looking at saying, okay, I'm interested in candidates to fill what I call it's like the Titanic that the ship is going down there's a hole inside. I need somebody to fix the hole. If I'm going to get somebody temporary, I should be getting a contractor on a temporary basis. If I think the need is permanent and strategic, then I should define that job description. Worst thing I think is if somebody puts out a job description that says contractor perm, and they have no idea what they're trying to write that what they're actually trying to fill. So when you're looking at a perm role, the theory on my end is always that we're trying to get in alignment with, in a sense, who you are and where the company's going and there's some long term relationship between the two. And when I'm looking at a contract role. It's like it could be a long term contract, but I'm not committing to anything I'm saying I have an immediate need right here. And I need usually some of the skill sets to come in and fill that. And so, to me, those are the two big differences for what it's worth. The only other thing and I will take the an extra minute to talk about bad job descriptions quickly, but a really bad job description is one, the best you get out of many of these job descriptions is, here's my long list that was vetted by HR of all the things I think you should know about the role of skill sets. So if they're good they tell you what the role and theory is going to do. They point you to places about the company so you will understand what is consensus like what's a censure what kind of things do they do. And that gives you a broader business context, but then they should point you to not only upload what your role is what part of a team are you going to be on. The problem is when you read those, they if they're good, they're at least going to say, these are based requirements and here's preferred things to have they'll at least give you that split. The problem is, you look at that and you go, Oh, look, by the time somebody got finished producing these job description they listed 37 different technologies in the base requirements right. So is that reality. Hell no. So who made that error. Who is the one that let that job description get out the door that way. If there are some critical things you got to have, it should say must have and should list the two or three or whatever the must are just to get you to even be screened properly right after that it's what I call the nice tabs, or then eventually you get to the preferred. Somebody has to do more thinking about that you should be able to read a job description as somebody who wants to apply for a role, and it should be super clear. That's not only what the business context is how my team operates our operating model you have a flavor of that, but you should have that here's the poor things don't even apply if you don't have these three things. By the way, whatever no SQL skills are my highest priority something like that really sets you right and you know that if no SQL is not your strength, then don't even waste your time sending in the app, because we're not even going to look at it. If you have some no SQL background and you meet the other two partially that are the must have, then yeah, you're probably a candidate go ahead and submit the fact that you don't have experience, you know migrating ICS the dv2 on a mainframe or something. And the fact that I failed to indicate that that's a much lower requirement and I'm willing to look at lots of people that don't have that requirement at all. So that is usually well communicated in a job description so fundamentally it leaves the people who want to apply for a job, I'll put very much in the dark. And one of the gaps I find a lot of times is hiring managers don't really either in some cases know the technology they're hiring for which is why they have a challenge with a job description or they didn't write the job description so I won't name names but I've worked for big companies where somebody writes a job description, not the hiring manager, and I couldn't, I couldn't say enough how in a sense bad a process that is right. So, ideally you want the hiring manager involved you can lean on somebody who's a professional like grace and say help me out give me some expertise. But at the end of the day, if you're going to be on my team, then I certainly should have been involved in writing that job description should have been involved in waiting requirements and so on. So hopefully that gives you some context. Well that's perfect Jim, and I think that really kind of ties into kind of the third bullet point here so at this point I'm going to kind of tie in. The number two and number three bullet points together so grace maybe you can talk a little bit about what Jim was referring to is, you know where you might have a laundry list of the job description. And we've even talked about this in the previous panel discussion we had earlier in the series. And then, you know, the resumes which may have a similar laundry list so maybe just touch base on that and then also talk about you know, if somebody wants to get on board with consensus and one of these great hundred wrecks that are open. How do they do that. And additionally, I guess this is for the entire group here is, are there other resources maybe not directly related to your company that you think are good avenues for them to pursue to get a job or to investigate what positions are out there. So grace I'll start with those. Those are quite a few questions so I'll quite a few questions. I'll fill them up as best you can. All right. So the first question you have was around just the JD itself and qualification so at least for consensus. No, it's the short answer that you do not need to meet all of the qualifications. That's also a very for I don't know if there's diverse candidates out there but that's actually something that's a big issue in in hiring is that you know some certain diverse candidates usually don't apply to jobs that they don't meet all of the qualifications and so consensus we really try to have our JD's include preferred and I think it's preferred and required skills. So preferred are nice to have, you know, we will not be, you know, if you don't have them. It won't impact, you know, whether we're going to decide to interview with you or not and then require gives you a sense of kind of what we're looking for the role in our must haves. Your second question was around how I evaluate the resumes I see, or what's a good resume say that again. Yeah, it was basically just, I think you covered it perfectly already grace it's just about, you know, if a person submitting the resume is they have to meet all the criteria and you said, you know like good to have absolutely required. So that's the aspect of saying, you know, we want to have a much more diverse workforce. So we're going to, you know, take that into consideration. And then also just as far as places where they can on board into finding these jobs that are available so yeah, census net or other resources you think might be helpful. Yes. So, yes, our website I'll drop a link in the chat here. But this is an open call out for anyone on the call if they see any role they're interested in at consensus they can send me an email or a LinkedIn message and I'll get back to you and put you into the referral system. And answer any questions you have as well. But so that's the link there for at least consensus and what roles we have open you'll see it spans from finance to sales to marketing to front engineer back and engineer DevOps, you name it it's there. But so when you're thinking about the other resources and what you should be looking for. So one, this is a great start. I'm really impressed you are here on your Thursday night or wherever you're based. So that's definitely a great resource hyperledger has so many great resources including the hyperledger job board, which doesn't have some jobs for the different member companies. I'd also say for my lens the enterprise of theory alliance also has some more lenses. And if you're thinking of like companies that are working in blockchain. If you just look at the member list for hyperledger as well as the enterprise of theory maliance and you go on their websites, you'll say oh like I didn't even know that. I don't know you know, Hitachi was working on a blockchain but that you see them in the member list and then you can say okay like let me go follow up and look at their open roles and if they have any there. But those are good kind of places to see what what they're working on. I'd also say that if you're thinking of kind of, you know, other kind of blockchain resources are of course just the news, you know, any of those kind of websites so ledger insights point all graph and coin desk are my favorites. Take it or, you know, I'm sure others would disagree. But you know seeing those names and the headlines and being like what do they do I'm interested in what they're doing like, you know, and following up and looking into them and their jobs is definitely a great start. Yeah, that's awesome grace I think super advice and I also put a link in for the hyperledger job board that you mentioned and that's a great way to go to see what other hyperledger members may have as well. Okay, Josh. Maybe talk a little bit about, you know, the qualifications and how Accenture views that, and then maybe also go into, you know, how they would be able to get recruited by Accenture or other avenues you think would be helpful. Awesome. Yeah, no. So I also just pinged in the link. And let me know if folks have any issues it's like the hyperlink to our open roles within Accenture, kind of filtered already by blockchain roles. So you can see we have a ton that's out there. And it's a little tough for me then to say, you know, what specifically we're looking for because I think if you click on that link and just kind of scroll through some of the open opportunities you can see that not only does it really range from, you know, folks just kind of starting out in their career to, you know, managers, senior managers, et cetera, but it also varies as well, kind of like I was mentioning earlier between maybe functional industry specific consultants, you know, whose primary primary role will be kind of interfacing with clients and and helping to drive work, you know, for a given company in a given use case, all the way to offering development. So how do we kind of be better at Accenture? How do we form strategic partnerships? How do we go to market, you know, thinking about things like that. And then again, tech specific roles and things like that. So it's going to be a bit of a mixed bag depending on what you're really looking for to get to more of the kind of like soft skills, competencies, things that I would recommend. Again, you know, there are people who there are fantastic folks who work in our HR organization that can answer this much better than I but I would kind of just guide you to how to remove blockchain from the, you know, consideration. A lot of those kind of, you know, cliche, you know, new job isms are going to hold true, right? How are you presenting yourself as a candidate? You know, why do you care about the company? You know, is it the unique role that Accenture or consensus or, you know, any given kind of company that you're applying to have a point of view on, you know, what role they play within the ecosystem because every company is kind of looking at it a bit differently. And just, you know, have that kind of as an entry point or a point of view that you have as you're bringing that to job applications. Perfect. Yeah, I think that that's given them a good perspective on, you know, the general interview process and, you know, making sure that you understand the culture of the company, and then how the blockchain ecosystem fits in. You know, it's going to be a core component of consensus, whereas in Accenture as a consulting company, you know, it's going to be a core focus of a team or one of the infrastructure plays within the organization. Okay, perfect. And then, so Jim, why don't you, I think you already kind of weighed in about, you know, you're glad to train up people on the qualification side. Are there any, you know, real core qualifications? And then how would they interface with your company if they wanted to look at getting into a new position that you just talked about? Yeah, good question. So from my perspective, I'm, let's put it this way, I do have contract, I've had contract roles in the past. I don't have a contract role open now. When I've had a contract role to fill, whether it was on fabric or something else, blockchain or not, I was always asking, let's look immediately at the portfolio of your work, right. So I really was concerned because I've got an immediate hole in my case I want to fill, and I'm just trying to align, John or your skills, a good match today with what I've got to do over here. And the way I'm going to look at it is I'll look at you and say, oh, okay, so I needed these six things. Well, here's John. And John talking to him seems like the right kind of person. I've had a few other people on my team that we just talked to him briefly, just to get a feel of how you are as I'll quote it, how you would fit with the team as personality, if you will, right. And if you, in a sense, if I get feedback from multiple people saying, yeah, John's easy to work with this is the way he likes to operate that's consistent with what you're telling me. Okay, now I understand how John likes to operate. And I think that method of operations going to work with my team. So that's check one. Then I'm going to come over and look at the skill sets and say, hey, I've got and I do this all the time. I've got these six holes that maybe Bobby left and these are the six things she did. And now I need those six filled right away. So what I'm doing is saying, okay, John, show me what your work is. I don't want I don't want to put you through upward skills tests or any of that mess. I'm going to say, John, I'm looking at somebody that does react native or I'm looking at somebody that does feathers with no JS or I'm looking at somebody that does, you know, brails or groovy or whatever it is that I'm looking for technically. I'll say that's what it is. It's these six skills that I'm trying to replace. And now that Bobby left. So give me your best work. Let's talk about those things. Let's talk and I want you to show me what you've done. Not, I don't want to, I don't want to waste your time trying to explain what my project is I'm going to go look at your stuff. And we're going to, you're going to explain your stuff to me. And that is without a doubt the fastest way I can get a read on how you think about things and have yourself problems. And when you and I go through that quick dialogue what I'm going to find out is, Oh, John's a great guy to work with sharp guy thinks well, ask the right questions, really strong in these four areas, and literally is a complete zero. I'm going to tell you two areas that I really have to fill right, and I will tell you 100% of the time. I define myself as a court, a coach, and the utility player on a baseball team. So now I say gee john's really good at these things. And he doesn't know anything about five and six. Okay, so that's now a whole. What am I going to do am I going to pass on john know john's it really a strong teammate, and a really does those four well. I'm going to cover five and six, and I'm going to put you on to the team. Because you're going to fill that gap immediately because you know the other four things, and I'm confident of that so I'll make a fairly quick hiring decision based on that. But the key thing was, I needed six items, I only got four, but I was really confident from what you told me that you covered those four really well. So it's now just up to me to reshuffle and cover the other two, and that has worked out from a contractor's perspective. When I'm looking for full time people. You know, I hate it's Jim stupid analogy always hits the difference between dating and marriage right. So you can go on lots of dates but when you want to get married you want to be a longer term reason on both ends. So in theory, as Josh was saying, you want to have alignment with gee I think I like what the company's doing. I think I like the value they deliver to their customers. I think I would like to be part of that I like in a sense the people I've met from Accenture I think I like their culture, their work culture and so on. If I check off all of those. If they look at me and say hey Jim you're you're a good guy to work with and you cover all these things and we think you're a good team to you bring something to the table right now hopefully, but more importantly, we think you're going to be a. significant value add early on by bringing these things in so reversing my own example, maybe they wanted six specific skill sets, and I only brought four, but I brought good experience with me. You know the hiring manager on the other side is going to say well, at least there looks to be a very long term alignment at least he looks like he's going to be a good teammate for us. And that's the work culture and he certainly has those four skills based on his experience. Yeah he's the right guy to bring on board. And yes, they'll maybe have to shuffle one or two things around to cover the gaps that I don't cover that they have in the short term, but the key thing is that longer term culture is an investment on both ends. I used to hire people as a CIO I hire people and I say look, right now, it looks like a good fit from my perspective, take a look on your end, look at what we're offering look at the company, and hopefully, if we both done our due diligence, we should be able to say to each other. Yeah, I'd be really comfortable joining this organization for the next three years, and I'd be comfortable having you on the team for three years. After that, there are no guarantees in life. Look at it as Lord knows I'm divorced so I can say that with experience, but the deal is, there are no guarantees in life and I'll tell you the first CIO role I had. It was kind of cool. I used to tell people and I hired him think of us as like a university, you go through university at a bare minimum spend four years there to get a degree and you graduate right. If you're in here and you're fit for us, you should know well enough upfront that we're a good fit for a couple years. I should know well enough that the value you bring in with you is going to be worth it for several years what's going to happen as we work on your career over time. You may grow in different directions and have different abilities and say I'm ready for a challenge. And if we're partners together in your career if we do it right, you'll come back and say hey, you know what. I want to do something different. I want to manage this or that. We'll honestly look at ourselves and say well do we have that opportunity is it here now is it something that's going to be available shortly. If it isn't, think of me as being your guidance counselor as a graduate. I'm happy to help you graduate from my organization to something that is a better fit for you. And honestly, that has worked out well so I'll tell you the first major CIO role I had out of this one area that I managed. I had 22 people work for me. One didn't want to go on was retiring. Another one didn't want to change her her job at all she just wanted to say it was a low key low pressure job wanted to keep that. 20 out of the 22 eventually became managers or it directors or CIO somewhere else they all sort of graduated, and that graduation concept on the clear side. It wasn't just about evaluating you are six months and say hey john's doing a good job. It was no let's look forward and see again where are we, what do we have in front of us, what are you interested in and what is that alignment. I mean, literally I used to spend a considerable amount of time, helping people graduate from my own program, if that makes sense. And so I think, you know, responsible perfect sense would do the same thing I'll say. Yeah. Okay, great. That's an excellent perspective. Jim. So I think we've covered most of these questions here already I'm going to focus on one more question for the panel, and then I'm going to turn it over to Bobby and I think this last question is going to be very Bobby's discussion. And that is, how can the candidates who are joining us build their skills for blockchain roles and I know we've talked about how you know blockchain expertise can cover many facets. But maybe each one of you can kind of just give a little synopsis as to how the candidates could build their skills that so grace I'll start with you. Being here is a very good start. So everyone should give themselves credit. No, but I think, you know, there are many different ways as simple as reading as listening to podcasts, you know, as, you know, it's kind of whatever is your learning mechanism of choice is, you know, there are so many resources and, you know, what you prefer if you want to listen to podcasts if you want to read an article if you want to join a meetup if you want to go to a conference like all of those things are open and all great opportunities. I will say that, you know, and I've seen. I have met people almost through every path. I know that has, you know, gone out to find a blockchain job so there's no one size fits all. One thing I will say about particularly within hyper ledger and what if you're interested in this is my shameless shameless plug for hyper ledger basu and our project. And our theory and client is that we have hired contributors who have, you know, you know, gone on to the repo and submitted simple requests and, you know, identify an issue that they want to work on and, and they're able to demonstrate their skills that way. And then, you know, they reach out and, you know, on rocket chat or whatever and say hey, I'm actually interested in a role with you all and, you know, is there something open and we've hired people through that mechanism so open source is a great avenue to kind of all of those, you know, learn through your own adventure paths that you could could choose as well. But that's definitely definitely my shameless plug for contributing projects is a really really great way to do it. Yeah. And grace I, I agree with you 1000% and I would say that definitely if anyone on this call wants to engage with hyper ledger, either as a maintainer or a contributor. I agree with grace 100% that I think that would really be a way to kickstart your involvement with the blockchain space so thanks for that grace that's perfect. Okay, Josh, your thoughts around preparing for entering the space, building their skills. Yeah, I mean, my perspective is that it is much better, and maybe even easier than it's ever been to kind of just directly get into the space I think my answer, a few years ago would have been more the typical, you know, attending this or you know attend conferences, personal meetings, like that would be truly kind of the use way just because there was not that much that was being directly posted and it was, especially, you know, a consultant to use and other companies it was very much of a, who already works at this company that we can kind of bring in and kind of already has, you know, certain inroads and so you'll hear I think a lot of folks as they're talking about their own journey into their current blockchain role. It always comes from a, you know, it wasn't, I was born living and breathing blockchain and I'm, you know, now killing this role it's always I came in I had some kind of functional slice and was brought in because of just personal interest or you know luck of the draw I think the good news is that, you know, as Grace has mentioned and hopefully she got, hopefully if you're able to access the bit.ly that I posted as well like, you can see that a great way is just to directly now look at the tons and tons of open roles that are being posted. Try to figure out, you know, you do you want to sit in more of a functional or technical role is consulting something that's interesting to you or would you rather be at a company that has, you know, a kind of core product and that provides a bit of grounding to that as well. And I think a lot of it is just going to depend on your personal preference. Things that I would highlight is just again, and I'll keep it on this point because this is why I've seen applicants do a great job at differentiating themselves is figure out kind of what your personal experiences have been. What interested you in the space to begin with, you know, of all emerging technologies. Why is this kind of where you're at right now, you know, on Thursday evening and you know something's drawn you to it and something kind of stuck out to you and so kind of highlighting that and you know, figuring out what kind of new approach and new angle that you want to take to it. You know, I can't, I can't really stress enough how important it is to kind of be aware of that as you're going into some of these conversations because a lot of the time, you know, the blockchain knowledge is going to be something that regardless of how up to date you are, you're going to have to do some learning, regardless of any organization that you join podcasts reading kind of, you know, industry do think that that is a great way but each company's going to kind of have their own internal lingo and way that they think about things. So really just kind of having a good handle on, you know, either the technical or the functional skills you bring to the table outside of that is just something that we definitely highlight. Perfect. That's great insight, Josh. Jim, what are your thoughts around building your skills and then we'll turn it over to Bobby. Oh, a couple of things, great. Good question. From my perspective. And I won't pretend that everybody learns the same way I learned. But at night, when I wanted to learn blockchain. So I had this weird thing I didn't select blockchain. I selected for watching by somebody else who said hey, you're doing this work as a product manager, you have a very strong technical background. We need somebody who's going to go look at these new technologies and they, I already knew device integration having built device networks years before the internet existed so I understood that it wasn't a device issue. And I had built some simple machine learning programs, which weren't even that important at the time for this company. But they said, oh, we think blockchain is going to be really big without any understanding of it. And I said, we want somebody to focus on it. So we kind of like had a secret meeting and elected you. So it's like, okay, so I didn't go running for it. It came, it came after me kind of a thing. What was interesting is I made one right decision. I don't make a lot of right decisions in life, but this one was really right. And it was, I thought about it. And there are all these roles. And, you know, Josh, and others have mentioned the idea that yeah, get involved in an open source project as a contributor right. So the problem is, I did go to the hyper ledger fabric, and I knew the fabric was the strongest of the platforms that Linux Foundation had by far had the most activity. It was going to have the most durability. It was going to get most engineering. I guess I know a lot about software and I can read what I call ones that are going to be long term versus ones that are not going to make it a sense that are not healthy enough in a sense as communities. And when you look at open source you look at communities when you look at a commercial companies, you're getting more branding, which makes it a little more difficult to, in a sense, understand the durability of the platform. You don't have to get some sense of how to read that right, but it was easy to figure out that in the Linux hyper ledger project fabric was the strongest one by far at the time, had the most in a sense, demand, not for developers I wasn't worried about that, but most demand for application use cases which is great that was simple. So then I said to myself okay, where do I want to fit into that framework, and I said, Okay, I'm a technical guy by the muscle business guy and I'm a product owner manager at the start. Those are my roles I can sort of slide in in a lot of different places, but I went to a hyper ledger fabric contributor meeting, and I listened to the contributor specifically talk about what they were working on. And I said, Okay, so I don't know I know protocols custom protocols I built some do I know protobuf protobuf well enough for gossip. No, I don't. Do I know the internals of fabrics consensus algorithms well enough. No. So I sort of went down this checklist listen to these developers talk about the great things they were doing and I said, Hey, you know what, I'm not qualified to be one of those guys at this point. So I backed off and I said, Well, where, where should I start. And of course you can always go read the doc and that's always scary, because a lot of products have very bad documentation. But in the case of hyper ledger they had a bigger commitment to docs than almost any hyper ledger fabric at a far stronger commitment to documentation than any other open source project that ever been associated with, which is really saying a lot and they didn't do so well and either sometimes. But when I looked at it, I said to myself, I can, I typically learn best in QA. That's where I come in so here you guys are building something. Let me be a tester and I'll come in and I'll learn very much about how this whole thing works by testing. But when I got to fabric I said you know what, there's a better place to be QA I'm testing stuff that's not ready to roll. I said you know what, the right place to be is on the documentation team. And it was an open source. So I made one brilliant move in my life I said, jump over to fabric documentation. It's okay that you're an idiot. As long as you got a pair of hands you're willing to read stuff and say I don't understand it. That's that's highly qualified to be on a documentation team, and then help them get feedback on how to improve it. And so I was an expert at that, saying I don't understand that was my real strength that I brought to the table, unlike the other guys on the team who actually knew this stuff. And so I had value your way, but at the same time I could learn. And the key was, I knew that if you're in the document if you volunteer in the documentation team what's funny about this, all of the parts may not work at different points. If you're testing it in QA. It doesn't mean that in a sense the product is ready or that your test is right or wrong. There's a you have to be at a higher level, going to the documentation team, you know that all the parts have to come together. This ship is about to get launched for real. And so the quality of what's there to code the documentation is a lot better than if you're volunteering to be part of QA or coding. So I jumped over there. Sure enough, it was the right choice. I jumped into what was their initial documentation their initial examples for fabric and all that, and was able to, although it stand up find gaps in the stuff makes some contributions, but definitely starting in the documentation team as volunteer was without a doubt the smartest move I made, and it was the fastest growth. They had great input from the architects to the documentation team. And I literally learned fabric better than if I had taken courses in it for sure. Yeah, that's perfect Jim. And really what I'm hearing across the group is engage with the communities engage with events like this. And if you become a core maintainer, or if you're a contributor in a project, you'll definitely get noticed and it's a great way, and a great on ramp to a profession. So, Grace, Josh, Jim. I really want to thank you for being a part of the panel today. And at this point I'd love to turn it over to Bobby, and she's got a whole great event to go through for us and I'm turning over to Bobby right now. Thanks. Thanks. And I just want to give a shout out to consensus hyper ledger and Accenture. I've worked with companies throughout my career and the inclusivity and the welcoming nature of these companies I have never seen before. You feel all are welcome. There is no doubt that no matter where you're coming from, you have an opportunity. And it is so refreshing to see the welcome this that all those companies, you know, forward to new candidates coming in so kudos to you guys. Moving along a little bit we're going to, if this works, talk a little bit about blockchain careers and education so all these working groups are great I got my education through the working groups at hyper ledger and the special interest groups that hyper ledger. Again, it's a great way to learn the business end of what's going on where the use cases are going to fall in. Again, you got to find your way to get into the community. But again you want something. If you are have skills and you want them to transfer over education is the best way it's what I do it's my lane I stay in it so we at this endeavor this summer wanted to support that educational piece so we used a hyper ledger training partner the Indian blockchain Institute, and they're offering some courses with some discounts and stuff and I'm going to let nourish talk about that for a little bit. He's going to go over some of the jobs some of the courses. So nourish if you're ready. Yeah, thank you Bobby. Good evening everyone and it was a great panel, Bobby and a lot of insights. All right. So, in fact, they talked about the various rules, and it's like any project, any it project when we implement the various rules are required developers their system administrator is there, or architect or consultant and business analyst, or even test is there. And project manager designer. So, like any project in blockchain project also we need all kind of rules, but major their five rules for five rules which are more popular which are more in demand. And one is a blockchain consultant blockchain developer block administrator and blockchain architect. So we have designed our programs accordingly to meet the market demand. And so this is a one program certified blockchain professional. This program is there's no prerequisite for this. So you don't need to have any kind of technical background in the past. You can use IT or in general, from the industry, and you want you can with this program you can learn the concepts of blockchain, and you can work as a consultant or as a business analyst, because for any project implementation. And based on that designing solution is very, very important so that it can be used by the developer and the architects to use that for further implementation. So this particular program is for 30 hours 15 sessions towards each. And we are starting this program 21st August and it will end somewhere in between September. So this program is for hypervisor fabric developer program is for the developer for developer there are two programs hypervisor fabric and Ethereum. So we have chosen Ethereum Fabric and Ethereum these two, these two programs, mainly reason being the, as we see 60 70% of projects are mainly done in these two blockchain framework, and they're more in popular in demand. So it covers you can see up to 70% of the jobs in this area, and both the programs, it requires programming knowledge you should have prior experience you should be a software professional. But it is not necessary that if you're a student you'll learn the coding skills, you can do this program. So we go in depth of this. So, while learning blockchain concepts we do learn while how to do smart contract how to indicate your application front end with the blockchain. So this program contains a capstone project for so where a case study is assigned the various different kind of case study for different industry. Each team is the working groups, and each group can choose one case study, and they work together at each group, each member like each member group of 34 people, each individual in that group plays different kind of role, like an analyst role, administrator role, architect role or testing role. Like that, a group work together on a case study and do a complete end to end project as part of this program. So any capstone project is a work like that. Similarly, like this blockchain architect program. And this is our longest program is mainly for senior working professionals who has strong technological background and architecture experience. And they get to learn here, not only blockchain concepts, they go through all the areas of development, consulting, and as well as administration. So this is a longer program it covers Ethereum and hybrid fabric both. And in this, the capstone project is on fabric. And this program again starts in 21st August, it will last till end of November. Yes, this particular program is for administrator, and this is on hybrid fabric. This is a, it requires a prior experience on, you should be working as a developed professional crowd engineer or network professional. So that you're the best suited and can learn and do the required job in this. So this program also is going to last almost three months starting from 21st or 22nd of August till end of November is for 80 hours. Yeah, so these are major programs which you're offering and you can join us. We have a early bird discount 10% right now for the first 10 sign ups. What is the link where they can go and sign up for this? All the information is on the website www.bcmploy.com under learning at the last tab. It's all the courses are listed there and how to sign up for them. So jump right in. Then we'll put the link in the chat too. Thank you Bobby. So that is it from my side. If you have any questions, I'm happy to take it up. Yeah, we're going to have a question and answer session in a few minutes where everybody can ask all the panelists and all the presenters questions. So we're going to get to that in a minute. I just want to finish up with, again, congratulating everybody who showed up for this. That means that you're interested in advancing and you're interested in advancing in an area that is advancing like no other area has done before. So you are in the right place at the right time. It is definitely, I consider it like the Wild Wild West of employment right now because there is just so much going on. But how do you take advantage of that? It's like huge and you have to be able to know where you're going. So I'm going to give you some hints and some tips to help you in your job search plan. So again, everybody was talking about the culture of a company. Before you even start to think about where you want to be, you have to learn what the company is about. For instance, if you just come off of a six month stay at Greenpeace, you're not going to want to go work for Shell Oil. It's just not going to be a good fit. It's just, you're just not going to like it there. It's just something that, you know, you're not going to like. If you want to be working with diverse people, make sure that the group of people interviewing you are diverse. I mean, that's a great way to hit off what's going on. I mean, if you're feel comfortable with where you're going, all the better for you. I mean, that's what it's all about. You want to be prepared and you want to be comfortable where you're going because that's the way you're going to stay there is if you're comfortable. But how do you prepare yourself? There's things you can't learn to be prepared. And I bet you every single one of the panelists will agree with me that if you don't have these basic things, you will not get a job. First thing is you need to be prepared and you need to be punctual. You have to be on time. If you're having a Zoom call, be five minutes early. Don't be two minutes late. You are there asking for their time. So use it properly. Don't treat it without respect. Be coachable. Listen. Don't talk a lot, which is a hard thing for me to learn. So you have to be respectful, coachable. You have to be prepared. You have to be on time. You have to be nice. You have to let people talk. You have to be thank you and please and respectful. People want to see that you can act with a certain code of conduct and energetic. You don't want to get there and have like, oh, it's going to be too hard. You know, you want to say, I can do that, even if you don't think you can. I can take that challenge on, even though you have no idea if you can say yes first, figure it out later. It's a good motto. Again, watch your body language. That's very crucial these times. You don't want to, as I'm talking with my hands too much, talk with your hands too much. There's certain, you know, you want to try to be a calm force when you're looking for representing yourself. There's some questions you have to ask before you start this job search. Where do you want to work? Do you want to work remotely? It's a great place to be if that's the answer. Is the answer is yes. Do you want to work big companies, small companies? We're going to get into a little of that. And what kind of job do you want? Are you a marketer? Are you a captain? Are you anything? There are blockchain jobs for all of those fields right now. And organize yourself. This is again where I think that the bang for your buck in this seminar is going to come out. When you look at preparing for a job, if it's a feat, and I saw this great job in the paper, but now I have to apply for it. You're not organized. You're not ready. And there's certain steps you can take to get ready. I'm going to show you what they are. So one of the things is where do you want to work? Independently, do you want to just take on odd jobs like Jim we're talking about hackathons and I'll talk about those in a minute. Do you want to work at a startup? There's startups in every field in blockchain in every industry. And if you find the right company in the right mix, there's ways, especially with open source that you can just jump right in even before you meet the people for the job interview. Large companies. There are Verizon. Accenture is a huge company. There's so many big established companies and I'll have a few names and a few links in the presentation to show you what they are. And then you could be like me in person with the disease of entrepreneurship where you think you can come up with a better idea and a better way to do something so you keep trying. And we'll talk a little bit about how that's going to work out for you in this blockchain world. Saddle up for that one. So independent, there are consulting jobs that you can get. I know I take a lot of those that are limited time periods you do a certain job you get paid at the end of it and then you move on to the next one. Being a technical writer, that's a lot of the way we earn a living. So it's a good way, especially in this industry, a lot of documentation needs to be done now. A lot of programs like Jim said, needs to be tested. You start testing a program and start writing about it. That's great. You're experienced hackathons. If you're good at coding, you can just go to some of these sites. They offer monthly hackathons where you can get on a team and you can make money on solving computer coded problems. Gitcoin is one, there's a lot of examples, but that's just the one that when I was making these slides came to my mind. That will give you, they'll post jobs like $200 for someone to redo the style sheet on my website. You just take it on, you do that task and you get paid at the end. So there's a lot of companies like that that don't want to hire someone full time but just want certain jobs done and you can find those too. But then moving on to startups, I don't know if you can see this, but these are startup companies in blockchain that are done by sector. So for instance, if you're looking to, again, I think it was said before that someone was drawn to blockchain. Well, most of us are drawn to blockchain. It's like a vacuum and we're just a piece of dust. I mean, you just go. But again, it's hard to start like, I want to be in blockchain. Okay, well, the first question you should ask yourself is where are you coming from? Are you coming from supply chain? Are you coming from a media job? Do you, like Jim is a specialist in public sector? Have you worked with governments? Do you like those kinds of solutions? Because there's blockchain companies in all of those. So find out what interests you, what's drawing you to blockchain, and then research the companies that are there. There's this neat thing I get into a little later called Telegram. All of these companies have a Telegram and you can talk to these people directly just by logging into their Telegram and getting involved that way. So again, there's data analytics, there's companies. So again, whatever you're bringing from your past, there's a spot for you in these new markets. So many startup companies. And again, I take my hat off to consensus with their mesh and their spokes and their different avenues to monopolize that to take advantage of all of the things that Ethereum offers by giving it a business background and a framework for people to develop on. So now larger companies, larger companies. That's a tough one to work for you want to work for a larger company, you're going to have so much vacation, you're going to have to report if they decide to open an office you have to report when they tell you to report some people like that kind of structure. I know my one girlfriend who works for Verizon she's high up in Verizon and she spends a lot of time on what she calls talent collaboration conversations with her employees. So she has to do a lot of time trying to mix the right employees with the right needs at her position. So she's constantly moving people around. So I've been watching Deloitte's hiring and I'm put these information in here just so that you have the links when we post the slides not so that you sit here and read all this information, but Deloitte is hiring MasterCard Accenture we've already talked a lot about that and even like the Bank of America. So large companies are hiring in blockchain sections, and no one has a lot of experience here so if you're just interested and know a little bit. It's a great place to start. And then again entrepreneur and personal branding. I'm an entrepreneur so everything is through my LinkedIn it is who I am is my business card it is my resume it is everything so an entrepreneur, you have to be able to sell yourself in any way you can, and LinkedIn is a great way so again your LinkedIn profile should have a clear who you are. It should communicate what your interests are so I try to fit in everything I'm working on so that if anybody I'm working with sees Oh the giving chain, I know she's working on that let's let's scroll down and see some more about that. So it's clear what I'm working on and what I'm interested in open to opportunities that's a great LinkedIn button if you're looking for work. They didn't have a banner you can put over your face that says I'm open for work so people know you're looking for a job. And then also your top job I'm on the hyper ledger with grace technical steering committee. So that's one of the first things on my LinkedIn profile so it shows up first. If I wanted it to show up if I wanted another position to show up I would just list that first in my LinkedIn profile. So telling your story those pictures that you have up there is your movie of your life for someone who's looking at you. Make it good I want an award for a social impact project with a great team of people through hyper ledger. And I want people to know that that I worked on a project and I was successful so shameless I stick it up there. And again that's how you're going to market yourself in this new arena. I don't suggest if you're looking for employment always to do a website on top of your LinkedIn but entrepreneurs again you need a website and if you have a website and if you're an entrepreneur in this industry or any industry you have to ask yourself the entrepreneur question. What are you selling and how are you selling it because if you can't answer that you're not an entrepreneur. So again you have a website. What does your website say so for instance I'm just going to use my website. My website tells what I do I learn I create I teach and I do it again that's what I do you want to talk about it. Click that button and you can get to talk to me right away. And then action items here is my services I write courseware. So I have a button for if you want me to write your courseware I have a happy client the Linux Foundation they loved my work yay. And then I also do private instruction so if you want to click on pricing options you can drag me through another feature I'm going to talk about right into my cart and we can get started on a program. And consulting work so I have big buttons for my consulting jobs I mean I want people to get in touch with me so I have to make it easy. Again barcodes if I'm selling a class this is an old class so it's on sale. You can just scan the barcode and go right to the teachables app and download my class you have to make it easy for people. So again a website if if you are trying to sell yourself as an entrepreneur websites and personal brandings are so important. And then we get to the tough one social media. Again there are so many ways to communicate I get so confused. There's slack there's discord there's what's up what's that what's it's so hard to figure out who's chatting on what channel, and you really have to keep track of who like your personas you have out there. I have this one social media app I recommend to anyone who is serious about getting a job interviewing, whatever it is Calendee or any of these calendar apps where you put this link. Mine says Calendee black slash Bobby J and for my name. And I put that in my signature on my email so that if anybody wants to talk to me, they just go right to that app and they can schedule my time I have it set up for time that I have available for consultations and anyone can go on there and schedule my time. If you want to ask somebody for an interview, you give them that link, it makes it so easy for them to schedule your time. Again, and then you get the other social media is the Twitter is the telegrams the linkedin's the Facebook's the Instagram's it's like endless, but you should keep track of the presence you put out there so that you know what's happening with them. Telegram again is a great way for a lot of these startup companies have telegram channels where it's just a chat channel can post a picture something silly say what do you guys think how's coding going or you know just talk to the people involved in the projects. You can tell if the project is viable if they have an active telegram room, or if they have an active Instagram some companies pick different ways to communicate. Some people like Twitter better than the telegram, whatever, but you have to find how the people that you want the jobs are communicating and go to those places and start communicating. And next is the resume. Do you still need a resume. I mean, basically, it's not the same as what's on LinkedIn. But it's close. So you want to have no spelling errors. This is just obvious stuff. Take your resume right before you send it out copy it put it in Word, and see if it comes up with any extra spelling errors, you'll always find one and it's always a good practice. If you send information with bad contact information. No one's going to be able to contact you so make sure even on your LinkedIn profile that the email that you put there is an email that that still works and make sure it's not stupid don't like Superman at gmail.com you know like just take it down a notch and just make it a little serious. You know somebody may not want to hire bakery boy or whatever. If you're not outdated and relevant information, I can give you jobs that I had. I don't even want to tell you what decade. Nobody cares. You know they're so old that the functionality of the computer I worked on I don't even think exists today so it's not important. Again, try to measure your results, not the steps you took to get there. Now this is one thing that I always do. Grace was talking about the culture of consensus. If I was going through a job for consensus, I would go to their homepage of their website I would read about what they say they are, and then I would start incorporating those words in my description of myself. That's a great way to get people to know that you're serious about their culture as well. And don't constantly as I'm sitting here saying every five seconds, don't use repetitive words don't constantly say you're awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome. Try to look up some different words get it a little stretched out. And don't use a format design that's going to confuse people, simple, better, white, black lines, nice and easy to read. There's the standard resume which usually lists jobs experience and there's the resume for people like me, who it's more of a functional resume I have gaps in my work time I've done jobs I don't want to even talk about things I've tried to experiment with that didn't work as an entrepreneur. So I like to put my skills and my experience and my expertise, rather than list the jobs in chronological chronological order so there's two types of resumes and again Microsoft office or any template company can give you great ways to get started. So that's, again, you don't really need to worry about if you have gaps in your resume. There's different types of resumes that will cover that up. And then again the next one is the interview. I actually was late for one of my interviews it was actually shameless to say it was with a Gemini huge blockchain company and I was two minutes late because I couldn't get on the zoom room. I did not get a call back from that interview I knew I wasn't going to get a call back because the interview didn't go well because when you show up late it doesn't. So few things to know if your interview is going well is the length of the interview that interview lasted five minutes they were not interested in me because I couldn't tell time. So basically a longer interview lots of questions lots of interest in you is a really good sign. Also, the tone you got to be friendly you got to be professional and you can't go in with an attitude of any kind you're asking them for something not the other way around. And be as polite as possible. A good sign is if they discuss next steps like how are you going to jump into this position or asking you to look at what would happen next in your life. And if they introduce you to the teammates, or if they talk about transitional things. That's probably a good sign as well so the interview you know you can tell how well the interview goes by just the way the tone of the event. So here's the tip that I like this is another software program it's a personal wiki page costs me $10 a month. And I have access to this page, no matter what computer I'm at, no matter where I am and what I'm doing. For what I'm going to talk about now getting organized in your job source Microsoft off or if you're running Microsoft Windows, you can do the same organization with Windows just with the file folders, but you should get organized like this. If you're looking for a job, you need to have. Again in the beginning I said, if you're looking at a job and you see Oh, this is a great job for me. But the work for applying for it seems overwhelming for you, you're not organized. I can get through if I see a job that I like, I can pop my resume in I can get to I mean my LinkedIn profile. I'm sorry I went the wrong way. I want to see if this works by personal wiki page. This is going to work out so well. See how my computer program works. So here's my personal wiki page what I would do if I started looking for a job. So I start on August 5, I submitted a cover letter to company X on this day and then I will keep track of what happens with that. I have a cover letter stored so that when I have to write a cover letter, it's not an overwhelming task. Oh my God, I got to write a cover letter. I have seven cover letters stored that I can just pop my name in and off to the races. I have the cover letters that I sent out recently for jobs. They're all here stored on this wiki page or you can store them in a Windows folder, but keep them and keep them organized so that it's not such a hard thing to get a cover letter out there. A lot of job resumes or a lot of job applications now are completely are completely online, meaning that you don't have you don't have the ability to, you know, send it out in a in a in a format or attach your resume. They want you to answer in certain dialogue boxes. So if you have I don't know why this is working back. So if you have your bio or your CVs or the information about you, your references, that's another good one. I'm going to get off the call today. I'm going to ask John Carpenter to write me a letter of reference just to keep it stored in my my references over here so that again applying for a job isn't so hard. You have the references you have a cover letter you have your resume and I always a tip I always put out there is edit your resume the day you send it out because just pretend you looked at it. Even if you're not changing any for the thing for that day, make it look like you took the effort to look at it before you sent it out that day. I know I look at that when I see people's resumes and when did they edit this information like that and then keep your resources if you're applying for jobs. Write the dates right who you apply to what you thought of the job. I really want this one but I don't know how to go about it. Seeing in writing you can say that job's no good that job I like that job maybe I will go on their website or their telegram and start talking to the people there and seeing what's open. As you heard from the big companies there was a lot of openings. And again this to me is priceless if you want to seriously look for a job get yourself organized before you even open the job listings on on LinkedIn or LinkedIn is a great source for job listings. BC employees a great job for blockchain employee we try to keep the homepage full of great jobs for everybody. And we do give coaching on this too so there's resources available for you to get out there and get organized because again you got to sell yourself for this job. Nobody's going to sell you for you you have to do it yourself. So I'm just going to make an announcement and then we're going to open it up to questions. So let's see. Okay so our next event is on the 24th of August, and that is going to be a job fair where we're going to have the companies that you see hopefully all of them will be able to make it have a presence there they're going to talk about the jobs that they're looking for. So if we're going to do breakout tables will you'll be able to sit down with your credentials or with your information and say you know let's talk let's you know see what's going on and you can choose where you want to go or which one you want to go to. I do also have an announcement on a meet up tomorrow, the giving chain that's right there you can just Google the giving chain.org for information. And now it's the fun part questions and answers for us so I know we ran through a lot of stuff quick and we have like 20 minutes left on the zoom call if anybody has questions now's the time to ask them. I think one of the things I'll ask Bobby is just around recognition as well. So maybe you can talk a little bit about the government blockchain recognition that you got and how people could leverage that and getting a job as well. Yeah the government blockchain and associations like that again I got my start with hyper ledger so I'm an educator I've been teaching computer software programs for my whole life and as soon as I got it that again I was drawn like a vacuum cleaner. As soon as I heard blockchain and started studying it I was completely hooked I knew I wasn't going to teach you know anything ever again. And for me education is what you pay it's what you save your money for it's what you spend your money on. So, when I went to hyper ledger and I joined the working groups, Jim's working group, which was the public sector working group, where they talked about public sector programs and you start to get involved in the conversations. And through that I mean this is a long winded way to get to opportunities but through that association with public sector they had a group come from the Netherlands to talk about the Dutch Blockchain Coalition, and they invited the working group to go into New York City and come to their consulate and hear their presentation. And I did. It was fabulous I had a great afternoon I learned all about the three pillars of the community over there that is dedicated to blockchain. And through that I met the people at the big apps blockchain challenge. And at the same time we were working on a, I don't know if anybody's on the call from the meetups from 2019 we did a project in blockchain we tracked donations on a supply chain blockchain from farmers to food banks. And that project. When I heard about again through the Dutch consulate the big apps blockchain challenge. I applied our project as an honorable mention because it didn't really fit the categories but it was an interesting social impact project. And they gave us recognition and through that we heard about the government blockchain association and I'm involved in their education and developing some of their curriculum. So through that they had an awards program, which was the date it's the 12, where you could apply a proof of concept project, and it didn't have to be a working blockchain project just a proof of concept project to this competition. And there were four categories leadership social impact awareness and I think it was government but we want for social impact the project that we had done with the meetups in Princeton. And they let us go. I know Rhonda's on the call she she was my wingman that day, we went down there to the DC to the capital and our project got recognized and got exposure on a stage in the capital. And now I mean that was the pinnacle of my career I'm sure I mean I can't I can't say anything that could top that as far as I'm concerned. And now I'm, we're going back down Rhonda and I and we're going to give the award to the winner this year. And why I was saying what the date is is that they are still accepting submissions for that competition. So any proof of concept project it's to the 15th of the month go to the government blockchain Association GBA global.org. And you'll see the competition is not only for a project, but if you're an artist you can up into the 15th put in an artwork that describes what you want to see blockchain to accomplish in your lifetime, and it will get global recognition, and they're going to vote for the winning art show on a blockchain. They're using a voting app that they're voting working group built, and they're going to test it by voting for the winning art submission. So you can still get your art submissions in you can still get your project submissions in again and this is just all of that opened up for me by just going to a working group call. You know where where it's going to take you. So that was a very long winded answer. Sorry. No, that was perfect, Bobby and another thing I'll just say is you mentioned get coin, and Kevin Milwaukee is the founder of get coin and they've really done a great job of setting up an ecosystem for people doing gig work. They also have a lot of competitions where they give out prizes, as well. So I would encourage anyone who really wants to kind of engage in the gig economy to go out and check out Kevin's work and that get coin link that you shared. Okay, what other questions do we have for Bobby around, you know, exceptional advice there, Bobby and I really liked your whole description about the personal wiki page. It was something that I thought was phenomenal as far as an innovation. And it's something that you know based on seeing yours. I definitely want to adopt myself because that's a great rate really to have everything right at your fingertip. I find it really useful when you're out. And you have an article or you have some information that you really want to keep. You can just log on to your wiki page wherever you are and just paste it right in. You can do it. So it's really convenient having like a database follow you around. Yeah, I know many times I've been trying to put my finger on something like that. And it's just, you know, having to sort through a drive or a folder to find the exact thing or is that things right there and you just every time you need something, pull it up and it's ready to go. All right. How about, Mike, do you have any questions you'd like to ask Bobby about the recruitment process or advice she's given about getting ready. Were you asking me, Mike? Yes, you might, of course. That's all right. Now go by Michael so that's okay I've been. Okay, I know I think we've had this discussion where I think it goes back to kindergarten. It is it is. Yeah, so now from now on, Mike, what is so Michael went way in and I let Bobby know your thoughts around, you know, all the great advice she covered here. And if you have any follow on questions. Yeah, no, thank you very much, Bobby, you did a really good job going through a lot of those structural components for looking for jobs. The other one that I was thinking about as well is, you know, besides some of the organizations, you know, you did forget to mention logging on to meetings like this, you know, go out and just do a search to see, hey, is there anyone talking about blockchain, DLT, all those synonyms that are involved, even though I'm not a programmer, I may not be a marketer, listen in and see if there's something you can contribute or take out of it. Because there's other groups that are always looking for people to talk about things in the blockchain ecosystem. And I've done that myself where I volunteer and say, Yeah, you know, I don't know anything about left handed smart contracts, but you know, give me three weeks. I'll go do my research, and I'll present it to you. It's, you know, forcing yourself to learn that new thing, practice it and present it makes you feel better gets exposure and soon enough you're an expert. And I do have to say one thing like not even with COVID withstanding but a lot of these jobs were remote anyway. And I feel that kind of evens the playing field for a lot of people. Like for me, being able to study and being able to join working groups from my home was amazing. You know, like I didn't have to drive into the city, an hour and a half on the train or get in there. I can join these groups on my computer and I think you know that one of the things that when this whole pandemic is over. I think that will keep is the convenience of meetings like this I mean I think they're always going to be hybrid from now on because people are just going to want to go and just can't get there. And I think it's not a benefit but I think a lot of the companies even before COVID these companies in this area. Somebody asked me once, what are the being an elderly woman, what were your barriers to getting into blockchain and I had to be honest at none. I said if I wanted to do the work I could go wherever I wanted to go and be wherever I wanted to be and no one told me I couldn't as long as I was you know if I committed to doing something I did it. And that's all they can that's again it's your skill set and what you're willing to do for it. Yeah, and you've definitely done a great job I shared a link in here of the learning materials development working group. And I cannot tell you how much great work that Bobby has contributed to hyper ledger and the learning materials working group, and is really the leading force behind that group and I appreciate all your hard work and effort, Bobby for sure. Shameless plug if you want to learn about the hyper ledger community join us every other Monday at one o'clock Eastern time. And then the other thing I shared in there was just, you know hyper ledger is very open and welcoming community as Bobby correctly assessed. And I also shared a link in there that just shows, you know, here's a way for you to participate and join a group. And there's a vast array of groups that you could join and really just find something that resonates with you. And it's a great way to onboard and the community is always very welcoming. Thanks to you guys are saying this up. I just had a really quick question over certifications. I just kind of want to know like the views on like how does someone have a blockchain certification and does that kind of negatively affect them when it comes to working at startups or big corporations, or maybe the pros and cons of having a cert. Well I always think any kind of certification just kind of gives you the verifiable skill level that you can't get unless you can say I took this class I studied this many hours, and I have this. A lot of the classes that are free of charge or complimentary. I think you need that certification at the end, and it is something and I'm sure Norish could talk more about this like once you get that that certification and you could put that on your LinkedIn it's the first thing you want on your LinkedIn. You want people to know that you know what you're talking about. And these classes are the best way to get there it's you know the, the path to the job you want is through education and again a certification to me I don't see any downside I would love every behind my name is possible. I don't know if Norish can add anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure sure Bobby, so certification is just a proof that you have gone through the program. And the program is very important because through program by this electric program is a structured learning. Otherwise, you have you look and find a lot of content on Google, but believe me when I started almost four years back. I come from mighty background, but it took six months for me to learn the concepts, and I had to learn everything by finding whatever material was available on Google. It's not that easy but if you go through a structured approach, your learning is very fast, it's more effective and then you can perform better. And when you approach for a job at the time, you can answer questions very confidently. And the certificate is just a proof that you have done that. That was a great question. Does anybody else have any more questions before I turn you back out into the night. Go ahead, Henry. Oh, I was just saying thanks for answering. Yeah, no, I think that definitely makes a lot of sense. I guess I was trying to more understand the cultural background that comes with it. I have heard from some of my friends that worked at startups, like whenever they see certification, for example, it's kind of like they see it as more of a structure like he is we're talking about. But I've been hearing that with startups is kind of more about your personal projects and if they see a certification that could negatively affect them from actually getting that job opportunity. But I mean you guys have more practical experience on this. I don't know if that's actually true or not. But, you know, blockchain is something that's new for everyone. I wanted to ask you a question what industry are you coming from. So I'm coming from full stack but I work for a supply chain company supply chain so if I were interested in blockchain and supply chain. The first thing that I would do was I would go research Masarac, which is the big shipping thing that they're trying to build on blockchain for their suppliers and their information is on. They've had Forbes magazines articles and and they're like the leading in supply chain and then just start reading about it. I know consensus has a supply chain working group I know hyper ledger has a supply chain working group. So there's again and those working groups I don't know if anybody really understands the gift of a working group. Again the learning materials I'm going to see if I can just do this really quick the learning materials working group. So also Bobby just to that point there is one a working well let me rephrase not a working group. There's an industry group focused on supply chain transportation and logistics. So, yes, you can go to them and they have materials they've got meeting notes. So that might help you Henry if you just want to find out where to start that might be a good place. And if my computer ever loads I'm going to show you the hyper ledger working group world so I'm on the wiki dot hyper ledger dot org which is an open page to everyone who wants to go on it and consensus and other companies have the same type of internal page. But in this hyper ledger page if you drop down groups. My computer is so slow I apologize. It works every other day I promise. Nice because it consumes a lot of bandwidth. Oh, yeah zoom is writing temporary files, for sure, they're very high buying. Okay, let's see if we can go to the hyper ledger homepage and get to the groups that way. So anyway, so there's several groups that have bi weekly meetings. And you can see the groups right here so the special interest groups are consortium based groups that meet bi weekly to talk about blockchain solutions and how they can work together. Capital markets is one and they're doing a lot. Bippin is their leader who's great. And he does a lot with cbcds which is the central bank digital currencies. And the capital markets are constantly talking about what's happening they have great speakers come in they had the back on from Asia talk about their currency they had I think the people from the Bahamas and the sand dollar come in. So they have great speakers in their meetings climate action. They are unbelievable they are working on the carbon accounting net zero emissions calculators, so that everyone can calculate their emissions on the same level playing field so they're kind of making the standards. They have several different, which can, if you're interested in climate being on the right side of it, listening on some of their calls. The media and entertainment health care public sector was how I got involved. And then they also have again supply chain, telecom trade finance telecom is interesting that's where they have in the industry competitors trying to work together because if you've ever made a cell phone call you're bouncing off everybody else's towers and they have to account for that It's a great solution for them so they're working on solutions that will help them deal with their industry competitors as well so these consortiums are never before seen collaboration from competitors in this open source environment and I think great things are going to happen from from those collaborations. But again to join these calls. There was a calendar right on the wiki page of the meetings they scroll my computers can tell I'm not I'm not used to waiting. So every day they have a list of what calls are happening. They're either technical with the projects that are going on or they're the working groups so for instance tomorrow. Oh look the giving chain meeting from the learning materials working group happens at its mountain time so it's actually at noon tomorrow and if you want to join that call all you need to do is find the link. So every single call has the link so if you're interested in health care. You and you follow you join the zoom call. If they ask you to introduce yourself you just say hey I'm just interested in learning what this group is about. And they'll welcome you in and you know ask if you have any questions as they're talking and you become a member of the community and it's again as simple as just reaching out to where you're interested in. And I guess everybody on this call who's looking at this list of great calls are like oh I would like to join that one or I mean I'm sure that's like a shopping list there's like something everyone can find that would keep them definitely involved in. You know and again this is how you can get started writing a white paper groups are doing projects that they need documentation so again there's there's positions for all walks of life. Any other questions. We have a few minutes left. Okay, how are you. I'm good. So, I am not necessarily public sector facing but I'm working with nonprofits. My interest is in connecting AmeriCorps which is a federal agency that puts volunteers into service around communities to really support them through the blockchain efforts that are out there and I'm wondering is there a nonprofit specific kind of SIG. It's called the social impacts. Again and here's their homepage you would just go to again wiki.hyperlite and again consensus has groups like this. All the companies have working groups you just have to figure out how to find them and usually get involved on their website. And this one you you can just join their mailing list. Join a call you just want to see what they're talking about you can just join the mailing list. And it should tell you when their meetings are right on each homepage. And again, explore. We encourage you with hybrid ledger to lurk through our wiki pages. Too much it's too much. It's like, oh, It's like me rabbit hole tomorrow. I want you head down it's hard getting out. Post the recording of this meeting on BC employee. If you're interested and hopefully everybody will join us for the job fair where we'll actually get you guys some jobs. Get headed in the right direction. So have a good night everybody and thank you. John and David and Jim and grace and everyone who helped out today. Have a great evening. Thank you, Bobby. Thanks Bobby take care everyone.