 taking a bit what's up everyone slowly waking up okay wait for not so we have um some kind of stuff planned a little planned as much as we plan I don't plan too well so my apologies in advance how's everyone doing slowly waiting for people to show up get it started so I was thinking of doing a giveaway today you know at some point of this shit so we'll probably do that I got a better idea so not so didn't have to come up with it yo yo yo what's the haps jack adjusting the height of my little thing here yeah that's what she said oh man all right you're good I am good you're good haircut seems good you get a haircut I do yeah no really no I got a haircut last week I think it looks good until it mushrooms out it doesn't really go long it goes wide and then it gives you a dickhead so it just like it just expands outward and you can wait for it to fall but I don't have enough hair left to really make that work whenever my hair grows out like it starts doing this thing where it flips and curls right here on the sideburn area really really awesome looks cool peter panties all right so what do we want to start off with what did you want to kick it off with well uh we've been doing uh so again what we're going to do is we've done a bunch of shows that are that are like somewhat like uh themed you know um and then the last few that we've been doing have kind of been more a bit more like uh some loose subject matter that we discuss and then we riff off and then we answer some questions and such and it seems like people uh people are into that as well so uh we're gonna do one of those where um we're gonna touch on some different stuff that people asked about during the week on our discord and then uh we'll riff off that a bit and people can answer questions or ask questions um Matt's a little bit better reading the screen than I am but I'll try I can field some for you you can field some if you see anything that pops up that looks normal yeah so I don't know normally we wait until it's 150-ish people or something like that but we'll yeah we could start we could start in a second so um couple things that that people wanted to chat about a little bit was uh um some stuff that I'll mostly talk about which is sort of like the some traditional hash aspects right and then there's some stuff that it's a little bit more matte where people were asking about like you know what's like the international seed scene like uh today how does that all work uh what is you know what is what's changing in the in the in the seed world or whatever um and Matt's a lot more uh uh can speak a lot more eloquently on that than I can really um but you can speak on the hash because I I I have never smoked like afghan Lebanese blonde I mean I had a chunk of soap road hash that was like I didn't smoke it was too scary to smoke so I just didn't so it's it's interesting and like the hash thing um you know the hash thing is is kind of cool because you can we can widen it out a little bit in the sense of um you know and talk about like some traditional weed cultures yeah because there is a real divide in weed cultures between cultures that grew weed primarily to make hashish sure uh and cultures that grew weed primarily to smoke weed you know yeah um and you know that that aspect in those choices made um made a lot of differences for people and now for a long time America one of the benefits of America is that we're isolated from everywhere we have like big oceans uh on either side and all that but we're very far away from the hash culture yeah right so traditionally uh all the best hash sort of stays local uh and then some small amount of it would go to europe right yeah uh and what america typically got was uh the b and c grade you know so a lot of times americans especially canadians are a little different canadians had some better connections and some better smuggling that happened up there yeah so they sometimes saw a little bit better of a grade but americans especially um you know they uh we got the shaft as far as high grade so a lot of people think of um imagine if your view of kind bud was like beasters yeah and that's what you thought it was because that's the only thing you've experienced a lot of people if you haven't been to europe and you haven't and you haven't and you haven't been tied into those communities right yeah you probably haven't smoked the best of the best yeah and so there's a lot of hash people in america that think like the last 10 or 14 years of sort of like the hash revolution that's happened over here that they have the best hash by far that they blow away all the traditional cultures by far and that they're kind of on the cutting edge and they've changed the game and they figured it out nobody else did yeah right which is pretty far from the case yeah you know so it's like a lot of those things where you know we can we can kind of riff on that for a little bit um so maybe you can kind of talk of we can we can start like maybe we'll we'll start from the beginning where it's like the hash culture sort of comes from the I would say the the near east and the middle east yeah I would say Indian Indian culture India uh Chinese maybe yeah I mean and and probably the old probably the oldest way to smoke cannabis before they even figured out how to smoke flour besides like burning flowers on breziers or something yeah is the hand rub yeah you know um and that india pakistan afghanistan iran the middle east you can go into like lebanon and israel in those areas and you can go through north africa all the way to morocco and that's sort of hash culture yeah right um in terms of like people grew weed to make to turn weed into hash yeah where you start getting into like um southeast asia uh and you know and especially the new world like mexico and columbia and panama and these type of places in africa they mostly smoke weed yeah and you know um one that that that caught me off guard was napal I always think of like nepalese temple balls and that kind of hash culture but if I remember correctly when I was studying it most of it was a flower culture it was most it was it was a little bit of both yeah you know um but you know and so to be perfectly honest like when I started going to amsterdam um I went there in search of seats yeah you know and then I started getting introduced to hash and uh you know I smoked a bunch of stuff but in the coffee shops uh it's a lot like you know it's a lot like dispensaries or whatever there's a wide variety yeah of mids and junk and really good and pretty decent and stuff and it wasn't until I met collectors yeah um that started explaining to me like how it all worked yeah right um and so there's an aspect maybe we maybe I could talk for a minute about before we talk about the regional differences for a second yeah maybe I could talk about like uh something that we chat about often which is the vast difference between how traditional hash is made um and how american hash is made yeah right so the american hash uh the way it's made um in most cases is it's it's you know it's a lot of times it's called single source right it's a single clone right um grown in either depths or outdoor indoor or whatever and that single clone is usually you know dried or fresh frozen and then it's you know it's processed and then it's usually refrigerated or frozen right away or stored well until use and it's used pretty quickly yeah right where in traditional hash culture you're harvesting a field of seats yeah right so you know in america it's like oh i'm gonna pull down this greenhouse and it's all for lack of a better turn it's all gml yeah it's all the same cut you know same terpene profile same cvd cbn thc all that it's the same thing yeah but if you're if you're harvesting it from any other region you're gonna get the full range of expression of that line yeah because they're harvesting thousands of sisters yeah and then they're processing those sisters and unlike unlike mo if you're if you're talking about like dry sift and stuff like that they tend to let that hash age yeah on the plant for a number of months and then when it's cold and bone dry they start a sifting process yeah right and then from that sifting process um you know then they make it into various grades and then they press it right so that's not done in america at all all of your all of your terp shit all of your whether it's fresh frozen or it's you know bh o or it's it's uh you know whatever extraction you're doing it's usually single source yeah and it's not aged usually the plant is taken down fresh and as soon as they can make the hash they make the hash yeah right and so you know i'm not exactly the expert on the science or whatever but definitely aging it creates you know it it transfers things from one to the other right yeah certain amounts of cbn or cbd or this or that or whatever is converted into other bioactives whatnot and then on top of that when uh we've wanted to get uh uh our buddy bodi on here for a long time to do like a hippie hashish trail kind of episode yeah and so we might get more in depth with that but when essentially when europeans and white people first started going to the hash regions and looking for export most hash there was a lot of hash that was one two three years old yeah you know a lot of the best hashish uh wasn't smoked until it was over a year or two years old yikes right i guess it's just different climate though you know so it was different climate it was stored it was stored very differently you know and they just thought that it was it was not like it wasn't ready yet yeah you know and so um and what's interesting about this is that if you go to amsterdam and you have all these people that have all the same access to all the same tech that we do here yeah as far as extracting modern cultivars for hashish and all the hash heads over there will tell you that the best hash that they smoke is the top import they can use pollinators they can use tumblers they can fresh froze and freeze dry and microplane and do all the tricks that people win awards with over here and they still think that hash is inferior in quality and effect to the best of the best import right and you know but in america we all think that our shit is the best shit ever of course that is basically as soon as we invented the nail and we invented some modern ways of hash smoking and oh oh nine you know 2010 2011 yeah that that was the revolution and hash went from shitty to amazing yeah right now it's true that most americans got shitty hash and it's also true that when all these white people and all these europeans and all these americans and brotherhood of eternal love and all these assholes started coming to these regions to look for hash and started offering crazy amounts of money yeah the quality went way down yeah people started cultivating people started middlemen started making it worse people wanted volume because there was so much demand right so a lot of times the best stuff never leaves yeah even like even my friends in amsterdam who are very tied in them getting the best of the best is really hard i would imagine so and they and they savor it right they absolutely savor it and they hold on to it and it never makes the you know i almost said clubs it never it almost never makes the the coffee shops yeah because it's all traded amongst each other yeah right it's all bought and sold that kind of grade you kind of have to know someone yeah it's no different than like if you if for it to mention him again if bodhi gave out some like 14 week amazing sativa you probably wouldn't be able to buy it from the cookie store yeah well you'd have to have a home you'd have to have a homey well maybe now maybe but but even someone even something that takes that long yeah yeah for sure you know what i mean like in europe you know there's there's still like i have a buddy over there right now that was texting me on what to get matt i didn't tell you this but he just bought some cg 13 and some c5 and some and some a5 from over there you know um and those you know those are 15 16 week strains yeah that's that's unheard of to get in a in a dispensary over here yeah that's wild but over there it's their bread and butter yeah you know so you can find that stuff so the biggest just to reiterate before we get too off track um the biggest differences between american hash and like the best traditional is uh you know the what what i was told by the the amsterdam cruise is like the best stuff is made in traditional regions but westerners helped them to make sure that the purity and the process is amazing okay does that make sense so making their technique more purifying making making sure that the the cleanliness you know and the technique and all that is good screens and everything like that and you know people one of the reasons why people ask this is people asked about temple balls right yeah these nepalese temple balls and i will say that these nepalese temple balls that i smoked from my buddy was some of the best hash i've ever smoked in my life okay and it's interesting because a lot of people over there feel that way yeah right and they feel that like there's something to the fact that like a lot of this stuff is being grown at six or seven or eight thousand feet yeah right where the air is thinner and there's more uv and maybe that leads to a different type of psychoactive or a different type of thc production oh sure you know and so they would say that like you know uh our buddy yo sammy yeah would say i don't care what modern cultivar you have i don't care what amazing cut you think you have or how pure you make it you know it shits the bed next to the best temple ball yeah like if you can get the best of the best he's like just in flavor and effect yeah right and effect is hard to say because it's invisible right yeah so we got used to making all these modern cultivars and thinking that like thousands of years of hash culture we just beat yeah because we're a little cleaner yeah because we have a little bit better and we have a little bit and we have some machinery and we're a little bit better process but like old timers will tell you that like they think that putting your hash in the in the in the fridge ruins it yeah and you know what what what's weird about the nepalese stuff is i will say that and this isn't a plug on it or whatever but anything i've ever smelled that smelled like the mendo perps that i cracked yeah had the mendo perps in it yeah in the sense that like i've never smelled that terpene profile from any other plant that wasn't it yeah unless it was related to it in the sense that like someone bred with it or it was it was an ancestor of that right yeah except these temple balls that i smoked and they smell when you were burning them they smelled like you were burning mendo perps that's interesting now you know does that mean that like the mendo p is nepalese i don't know you know but or does it mean that it just evoked that terpene profile yeah you know i can't say um but all those guys over there what's crazy is that um all those hash heads over there they grow all kinds of phenomenal weed and they sell all that weed to buy the best hash they can get yeah you know and like somebody like somebody like you know when you were interviewing uh uh uh kamera and and red you know yeah i mean he was saying that like you know he's never even seen samskunk man smoke weed yeah that you know the the top people over there are hashishians yeah you know they smoke hatch they're resin farmers makes sense you know that's what they're after they're after a resin yeah and so you know we could widen that out for a little bit and talk about how um you know this is like a totally different tangent or whatever but um when americans started smoking weed we were we're a flower culture we were getting weed from mexico and panaman jamaica and columbia and all these things and we were getting bricked um and we were getting you know we were getting bricked of this stuff and we started blending them with afghans because of prohibition right and it's super common and matt can speak on this too but most of the weed smokers back then were very disappointed in the smoke of the afghans yeah they didn't really like the high and they didn't really like the way it burned yeah i mean it was so vastly different than what they were used to compared to compared to sativas because those sativas have been have been bred for smoking yeah they were bred for they were bred to be burned as flower yeah you know where i mean i told this before but there's this funny story of when sam skunkman was in um was in afghanistan and he was searching for seeds right and so he was asking these warlords for seeds for flower you know and they looked at him and they said you know smoking flowers for women and slaves right are you a woman or a slave yeah and he had to convince them that he was a man and he just wanted them so he could grow his own flower at home and make resin i wonder if he pulled out his wiener you know uh and let me prove it you know but to them it was like that that was that was the thing the flower was a waste product yeah you know peasants and women slaves and women smoked smoked flower real men smoked hash that was their culture so obviously you don't care how flower burns and you don't care how the flower affects you because you never smoke it in that culture yeah so americans were the first people taking all these hash plants and and and afghans and actually wanting to smoke them yeah it hadn't happened before because none of those people back back home where they were from gave a shit yeah and you can kind of draw a line from morocco on the the western part of africa all throughout north africa all the way up through um lebanon and israel all the way over iran and into afghanistan and that's all hash yeah right but then once you get to like cambodia thailand that all kind of got lost yeah and it flipped into weed smoking and exporting actual weed you know and that part huh i wonder why i don't know why that one became so separate you know i don't know you know um you know and you know it's like i i prefer flower too to be honest and i don't think that we need to like base what what what what we think of on what afghans think um but uh you know definitely they um you know they just thought that because that was the culture that they were raised men smoke hash yeah you know and women smoke flower and slaves i like that women they weren't women they weren't good enough for hash women were puffing tough on the flower over there and you know and so there's this thing where when i first went over to amsterdam i met this guy he's still over there steve the nose or whatever and i got introduced to some of this hashish culture and they would show me the best maroccan the best lebanese these are amazing temple balls this is from afghanistan this is from the pakistani highlands and you smoke all this stuff and it's unbelievable yeah like he had the best hash collection i've ever seen in my life and these guys they didn't even really smoke weed very much they had it yeah you know but they mostly cared about hashish that's so funny you know and they thought they didn't care what method you used they didn't care what extraction technique you had uh didn't all all those cuts that you could make hash off of they were inferior yeah they were in it was inferior hashish interesting you know yeah and you know and so we we huh my look near you there i'm here so you know they um so it's really a big it's really interesting because americans like until things open up i would say that 99 of americans have probably never smoked the top import grade of hash that you can get yeah they just haven't seen it yeah it doesn't it doesn't show up it gets it barely gets to europe yeah before it gets absorbed i see a lot of people asking about the the opium thing and i can comment on that real quick what they're referring to is an old story and it wasn't hash it wasn't a weed thing it was necessarily it wasn't necessarily a weed thing the story was that tie sticks were dipped in something called passawater which was uh the water used when you produce heroin so when you're when you're doing the conversion from opium to heroin the leftover water is called passawater so there was theories and or people had spread stories that you know all tie sticks were dipped in passawater and that's why they were so strong when in reality it probably wasn't the case that's not really how how the the water works drying on the to weed you know but it that that is stuck forever so that a lot of people think that tie sticks have heroin in them and that's yeah that's where that came from and you know they don't mostly because yeah i think if it happened it would have been very rare i mean the the reason why is because cartels like that um they don't put more expensive drugs on cheaper ones yeah never free that's not how that's not how they operate you know i mean uh you know now with like the whole fentanyl thing and all that their people are cutting all kinds of stuff with highly dangerous substances yeah back in the day if anything got cut with anything it was by something cheaper and weaker yeah i still am very skeptical on on street fentanyl being cut into normal things because it's still more expensive i would imagine than most of the drugs are saying that it's cut with it doesn't really make sense unless people are trying to buy fentanyl and they're cutting it with shit but cheaper i'm gonna i'm gonna reiterate it one more time just because i think it's really important is that almost all traditional hash regardless of grade or quality is made out of thousands and thousands and thousands of sister plants yeah grown from seed and so you get a very wide range of that that strains profile thc cbd cbn trapeze all that kind of stuff it all gets blended together right yeah and so it's vastly different than growing a room or growing a greenhouse of gmo or skittles yeah or something along those lines and taking the exact same genetic cut right yep and that exact same genetic cut and uh and and extracting that right it's just very different and the way they process it is different and how long that it takes them before they think it's cured into something that they want to smoke is also different so american hash culture is very new and it goes against the grain as far as like any other kinds of uh hashish culture that you would that you would you would see now it is true of course that with with demand right they're gonna mix all cut brokers and and and people looking for profit are gonna mix all kinds of of cut into hash yeah i'm talking about the nicest stuff i'm talking about the pure grade yeah right and hash in these regions was a lot better before all these white people showed up demanding tons oh i'm sure and and then once all these europeans and all these english and all these americans started showing up on the hippie hashish trail in the 70s and they wanted just enormous amounts of it they blew through all the best and then of course just like any other humans you're gonna get a bunch of people that are trying to meet demand yeah so the quality on average is gonna go way down and you're gonna get a bunch of b and c grade and then you're gonna get you know and then you're gonna get um you know the the top end is gonna be a lot more rare yeah you know um and you know like i said all those old timers that smoke hash they all swear that the best traditional hash is still the best yeah now whether that's because of the strains they use whether that's because it they dry farm it you know i mean i'm sure there's a bunch of different reasons but the process itself is very different yeah and the effect is very different and they they all they all swear by it and that's what they take the best of what they grow um you know and that and people say that too people say i see that all the time i have a buddy of mine that was like oh yeah yeah yeah they know what they're fucking talking about they fucking make hash with the same hat the hand they fucking wipe their shit on yeah right and it's basically like these people these humans that have spent thousands of years refining their hash culture don't know shit yeah from what we've learned since oh wait on yeah right right and different cultures and we've gone we've gone through everybody dabbed with a fucking thousand degree glowing cherry red hot nail or banger yeah unpurged bh o every two or three years we're like improving our technique and you only have to go back five or six or seven years to techniques and shit that people wouldn't do again yeah they already get out of style that we learned that a bunch of these terpenes are like carcinogenic yeah at the heat that most of these people were dabbing them yeah with right and then the other thing too is when you watch you know you can get on ig right and you can watch some of these hash cultures work and how they heat the hash and how they work the hash you know and how they get the hash malleable and how they get the the resin to be warm before they use it you know yeah all that different types of stuff and like and so there's a lot to learn from those people you know because they've been smoking hash for a long time yeah you know and like we you know we stumble upon all this stuff and we think we're doing amazing because you can see through you know we want to put it on a piece of parchment paper and be able to see through it yeah we want to make it off fresh frozen harvested fresh frozen put into this thing put through a freezer dryer all this different stuff and you know um you know frenchy people talking about frenchy and stuff like that and he did bring a little bit of the of of of that different culture into all this you know but there's an aspect of um you know the the old timers will tell you that you would store the hash in like in loose bags right yeah in a cold spot and they said if you wanted to ruin your hash you put it in the fridge yeah and and the fridge and the humidity and the bullshit would ruin your fucking hash they were like if you wanted to ruin it just just do that to it but if you put it into a cold dry cellar and you let it age for a while boom it would get better yeah you know and you know and so and they also grow with a bunch of different cultivars that we're not used to yeah that's very true too you know um and you know and they you know they grow from seed every year yeah right and we don't we grow from clone you know yeah um and so we've gotten really and especially on the west coast you know um we've gotten really egotistical about our hash making yes and about our extracts and we are you know we are doing better i'm not i'm not saying that like what we do isn't viable yeah i'm just saying that like from the people in amsterdam that have vast experience with both yeah they all prefer the traditional shit if they can get the grade they want oh i'm sure so that should say something okay people are asking the title of the book and and someone did point out that churniak maybe isn't so well liked but um this is with uh laurence churniak and allen dronkers it's called uh hashish the joy of making and curing it's i was just putting up some pictures to illustrate as we were talking about how she's the different styles looks techniques in here but yeah people used to sit there and you know i don't know if you can see my hand or whatever um but like you can they would sit there and rub and rub and work and work and work and really get the hash warm and malleable sometimes people would put it into a plastic bag and they would put it in the heel of their shoe yeah and they would walk on it to like work and work and work and they wouldn't just sit there and you'll see videos on ig now because there's people that are going around afghanistan and pakistan and some of these hash cultures of how before they use it they heat it up they work it they get it to be they get it to be a certain way so there's a lot of there's a lot of uh there's a lot of old techniques that i think are kind of being ignored yeah that um you know it's almost like this shit where like in california in the 70s people knew about red and white wine yeah you know that was that that was the level of knowledge that like red went with with prime rib and meat you know and white was for their wife and went with fish or chicken or something and that's about all they knew yeah and now you fast forward 30 years or 40 years or whatever and now it's like they're like oh merlot and this appellation and the pinot gris that's that um you know that uh that's that's all going on and and whatnot and you know i think the same thing is going to happen with hash yeah we're a baby hash culture in america and we don't know shit and we're learning stuff and every few years you can see hash culture and you can see people's techniques improve yeah right um but we could learn a lot from you know and maybe they'll get to a point like with the legality of things or whatnot where you could grow a field yeah like it would be cool for seed makers right where you could grow a field of uh of seeds yeah and then harvest the whole thing for hatch yeah that'd be awesome and then you get the full range of whatever you know matt's bubbleberry or yeah you know a skittles hybrid or a gmo hybrid or whatever the case may be you'd get the full range in the hash uh instead of just like this one cut i'm gonna concentrate what's in this one cut yeah because that's never been done before right yeah it's not typically how it's done over there it's not typically how it's done over there and so we have we have our own thing and it's not bad or anything like that i'm not saying that but it it's very different yeah it's very different now we could expand it out a little bit and talk about um when when they first started bringing afghans you know we all started growing sativa in america right yeah because sativa seeds came free with the fucking wheat yeah you get kilos of you know headstash brought in and everyone's telling you your weed came with free seeds yeah we used to sit there in high school leaning back against the chair and we'd have a we'd have a tray and you'd break up the weed up here and you'd let all the seeds and stems roll down and you keep and you keep your weed up there right but hash didn't come with free seeds okay yeah so i was just watching someone tell a joke about bubble man we uh so we don't have we don't we don't we didn't get very many seeds so you know sativas were all everywhere we're everywhere in the 70s and 80s and that was primarily what it all was how do you think puck washes how do i think like man you know if you want to if you want to if there's people out there that don't like me and you want to think of me as a shitty grower i should show you some pictures of uh my puck grows because i did some i did some depths and i did some greenhouse outdoors with it and uh boy was it not impressive i wouldn't wash it because there would be no resin to wash off i got it was it was a really ugly i mean i can't say what it looked like in the 80s or in the 90s when it was a little younger um but you know when i got it it hated sunlight and food yeah and you know strangely enough those were two things that i like to give my plant sunlight and food at the time so yeah yeah it was uh it was really unusual um you know and uh you know they uh so there's you know bubble hash and there's another aspect of it too where it's like maybe we should we could talk about this for a second is that most people most most americans i was gonna say white people but most americans will say it that way right yeah like we don't like our time is our time is money yeah you know so you look at the way traditional people sift sifting is an amazing product but it's the most time consuming yeah and it gets the least yield so it's the rarest so americans are constantly looking for can i wash this can i bho it can i see what what way can i do it that's efficient and i can get an extraction that yields what what how can i get yield right well most of the time you have to put that through a solvent it's not just knocking the flowers yeah over a screen and getting and getting dry sift and then putting that dry sift through a series of screens and cleaning it up like bubble man is as shown right even water is a salt water is the original solvent that's why it's so funny that people call water solventless yeah water hash is solventless like look put in is water a solvent into google and see what comes up yeah it's a solvent yeah it's the original and what's crazy about that is if you read now granted there's a lot of there's a there's some thg and terpenes and stuff like that aren't soluble in water yeah but there is if you read like uh rob clark's book hashish about 25 percent of terpenes are water soluble yeah so you can so there's times when we did stuff with water hash right where you run something like some kind of tangy cross yeah and that and that citrus that citrus comes through super strong right yeah but then you run something like the 56 day headband and it comes out smelling like axle grease yeah it's super potent but it's like chemical process didn't like it's the chain that makes up the the aroma and the taste didn't make it through the hash making process right so most of the stuff we do today whether it's bh-o or whether it's water hash and then frozen or this or that a lot of these things affect the flavor and a lot of what becomes popular is what keeps its flavor with the time saving techniques that we use to make hash extraction easier yeah you know i mean you watch you watch these guys like on ig or whatever then you see them do their traditional hash thing no american wants to be sitting there with a face mask on for eight hours a day over a thing shaking flour and knocking off the crystals and then carefully you know like refining it it doesn't get you enough weight for your time yeah the people we want to use machines well that changes it too yeah right they asked you and part of the reason why i think like the tangy and the whole to mention that again the tangy and the whole citrus craze happened is because when like you know in mid 2000s you couldn't give away calio yeah no people would not if you had citrus weed that was a great way for your broker to look at you and say no dog yeah no dog i don't need that headache we yeah i'm not taking your weed you know but then and it was also citrus weed tends to not be that potent yeah so it's it's you know you could call it i don't want to say mid-z but you could say moderately potent at best yeah with a flavor people did blank lacking recreational potency yeah but then you start extracting it with bh o or this or that or whatever and all of a sudden that that citrus terpene came through super solid and now the shit's 70 t h c yeah and it actually gets you high yeah and so a lot of the popular strains in america that got made into hash um got made into hash because after you put them through the the processes that we do to make life easy yeah still tasted and worked good you know but the but the old like the old static tech and the old like and the old sifting tech that was like used forever that wasn't abandoned because it sucked it was abandoned because it was lower yield and took a lot more time yeah and and you know most hash guys like to make their money quick right yeah turn it over i want to turn it over you know and so you get like what you think is the world's most amazing hash the hash collectors in europe don't think you're smoking the world's most amazing hash yeah and that's not that it's not good and everybody can have their opinion you know yeah they just have a different perspective on it and uh more man it's hard to say but more cultured at some points when it comes to hash specifically i mean it's one of those things like like that's why you can compare it to wine yeah you know it's like now in california you can have all these wine nerds that are extremely intelligent about the different grapes and the different grades and the different appellations and where certain varieties do better than others because of climate in the 70s it was red and white and that's kind of where we are hashish wise right now we're just learning and like anybody who's listening right now like you know who's made hash for the last 10 or 15 years think about how much your techniques and what you've been doing has been changing every year to this whole time it's not like you've reached the mountaintop you know it's like people figure out a way to do it better and then people are like oh shit i'm gonna do it that way yeah and a lot of the traditional hash people tell me that most of the modern cultivars that we grow with suck as far as hash extraction where you get some yeah where you get some lebanese shit or you get some nepalese stuff that for generations has been grown just for that and that shit dumps yeah you know because that's what they designed it to do and when when the hash revolution hit 10 12 years ago you know um people started looking around for all the elites that had been kept around and do any of these also dump hash yeah they weren't bred for that no one ever thought of it hash was like a you know hash was like a personal product yeah maybe you could get some key for the club maybe you should get some water hash at a club you know um people would get scissor hash you know if you were working or people would get finger hash when they were bucking down stuff and all that but it wasn't like commoditized yeah right did you ever use an iso-2 oh god yeah i want i want one of those to try out if any of you guys out there have an iso-2 i will trade you some seeds for one i used to use my dad's is like a he-man castle along with my group castle gray skull and shit but i'd really like to see how it works today you know what i mean we could probably do a we could probably do a whole show one time on just the different eras of like oh that sounds cool yeah oh i'm gonna go on an octagon oh i'm gonna go areoponics oh i'm gonna go in a tee oh i'm gonna grow this way oh i'm gonna extract that way oh i'm gonna you know coliseums yeah coliseums i mean dude i had a call i had two coliseum i mean we could go through all that of just all like whatever is the most cutting-edge shit imaginable yeah do you remember the v tables the the they were like that yeah everyone that's popped up there's a pencil and so it's funny right because a lot of my friends are egotistical or whatever you know but it's like the the main you talk to hash people in california and the west coast now and they think they're the best hash people that have ever lived sure that they dominate you know and i'm not dissing them because they are figuring stuff out and they aren't making nice hash yeah right most of our fail growers fuck them they're also turning their back on thousands of years of humans learning shit yeah you know and and it's and it's like it's like when you're shocked when old people have something to teach you yeah you know yeah you know there's there's there's techniques and there's things and there's aspects um you know that uh you know i mean think about all those classes that frenchy did yeah just who the fuck are you supposed to be you know and he was and he all he was doing was just teaching some people how different cultures over there made some hash yeah you know and people ate it up yeah they did you know and there's different flavor profiles and there might be a way where you take a cultivar and you extract it one way and it bites potent but it sucks and then you do it another way and it's amazing so it's not like all strains react the same like something like i said some things go through water like a champ right i even did shit where i would have like a greenhouse full of the same strains and then i would have outdoor yeah and like sometimes like the sour diesels and certain things like that if they got rained on a bunch in october their terpene profile wouldn't be exactly what i was after yeah but the sour diesel grown 30 feet away in a greenhouse that never got rained on once was fed with the same food and the same everything would be bomb you know but like the super silver haze or certain citrus stuff it wasn't affected by the rain at all yeah it just kept its profile but sometimes the rain enough rain would fuck up the flavor on my weed yeah you know and uh well you know someone just said it's potent but it sucks that's the biggest oxymoron ever not really it depends because it depends on how it depends on how you what the high is like yeah i mean this quality of high you can read old high times right and not to bring up high times but a lot of people's opinion of the old afghani one was that it was a uncomfortable anxiety inducing body high that gave you heart palpitations and it was one of the least enjoyable smokes out there yeah and they way preferred sativas or normal or nls or there was lots of other highs that they liked yeah they thought it was potent but they didn't like it yeah you know some people like some some people the that sativa buzz that nl5 haze buzz or that nevel's haze buzz it's super potent and it makes them want to crawl out of their skin and jump off a bridge and die and they'd never smoke it again if if you know they hate it yeah that's like me with skunk one types they fucking hate it it's super potent it's amazing it's the nicest sativa i've ever smoked but there's people that are smoking a couple of times and they'll be like i know that's a bad time for me so you know potency is just one aspect it just means it's strong it doesn't mean that it's going to affect you in a pleasant way yeah you know i personally i don't like edibles yeah oh no you can't control the high you can't you're just strapped in because and the reason why i don't like edibles i'll be perfectly honest is that they fuck with my equilibrium oh really they give me the like you know when you're drunk and you're like if i put a foot on the ground i'll stop the spins yeah yeah they can give me the spins ooh that's not fun and i don't like that feeling yeah and i have friends that'll be like oh you just gotta eat enough and blow past it yeah and for me i'm like well how how many hours of uncomfortable do i have to feel before i start feeling good yeah because i don't feel good yeah you know i like we had a whole bunch and i don't feel good at all you know so how many hours of my life do i want to not feel good yeah you know that happens to me enough you know so i don't do edibles because like i got kids and shit you know so you know one of my kids could break their toe or whatever and yeah it doesn't matter how much weed i've smoked i can hop in the car i can take me to the hospital i can do whatever i need to do yeah but if i just ate a couple hundred milligrams of edibles i might need to like call a lifeline you know or yeah for sure i'm not you know and and then yeah i have all kinds of people are going to start commenting oh you just need to take these you just need to eat these i'm just saying that for me the way my body works sometimes it gives me the spins yeah and i don't like the spins i think a lot of people don't understand that though how how variable the everybody's brain chemistry is and how each individual cannibinoid or what have you interacts differently with everyone not everybody gets the same effect from the same clone though though you know i mean collectives that's the way people are tied all all indikas do this also keep us do this all hybrids do right in the middle you know it's just yeah it's just it's just not that way i mean i i chem 91 is one of my all-time favorite highs yeah it makes me feel like i'm a teenager watching a melbrook melbrook's movie and i got a big thing of popcorn and i'm happy and content and life is great yeah and we have good friends that are like meh i mean i love what i love what it what it breeds like and i understand that a lot of other people like it but i wouldn't like to smoke it on a regular basis yeah but i love it you know so there's that aspect too you know and that's that's one of the main things that all the hash guys that experience tell me is that they can't they just simply can't find the same effect yeah have you tried suppositories buddy have you tried any of those no i can assist you if you need help i know you've got you've got all those you got the all those extra jumbo i got that extra long attachment on the thing the get a long release no yeah i don't i don't need any of that kind of stuff i mean i'm sure that for people that have a hard time in a bunch of nausea you know um i'm not trying to make foot off fun off it or whatever that might be the best way for them to absorb yeah i got a pretty funny pretty funny story about boofing stuff so i had a friend named brian he's dead now but he had heard that if you boof oxycontin and granted that we were like 1718 you heard that if you boof oxycontin you get really fucked up and this is in the early days oxycontin so he stuck the oxycontin up his ass and waited and waited and then he realized that there's a coating on the outside that it really won't penetrate through your asshole so he had to crush it up and reinsert it and do his ass that's my boofing story you're you're welcome everyone i i do joke with uh my friends that are younger than me you know that their contribution to drug culture is boofing yeah it really is that really that's what they that's what they're going to be remembered for that's their innovation yeah you know all that different types of stuff and you know whatever it uh like i have seen people making suppositories for very sick cancer patients and aids patients and other various aspects and i'm sure that uh they do a great job um but what people also should know too is that when you eat when you eat weed uh or you take it you know uh suppository style it turns into thc 11 okay did you know that no i didn't it converts into something when you smoke it it's it's delta 11 thc delta 11 that's right and uh it's much longer lasting you know um and so that's kind of why you get fucked like in the sense of like if it if it hits you the wrong way yeah you're sort of stuck with that feeling for a while yeah and so me and delta nine are real good friends yeah delta nine and me we get along we see we see eye to eye on things i can smoke whatever format even you know i don't i'm more of a flower person than hash but i can smoke a bunch of hash and i can still accomplish whatever i need to do yeah 11 hydroxy not delta that makes sense okay yeah 11 maybe i misspoke but um but yeah it converts in your gut into something different okay and it's longer lasting and it has a some different effects well yeah it doesn't bind with your fat cells too which makes it more potent in your stomach now we're getting into into areas i'm not familiar with yeah you know it's one of those things where i don't care about edibles that much because i don't i don't uh i don't use them they're not that important to me you know i i do think that they're a great way for some people to get medicine yeah you know but i i got shit to do and i got kids and i can't take myself out yeah yeah it's a good way to take yourself out and you know to be honest like in the 90s and stuff like that you know uh now you can go to the you can go to the store and you can be like oh i'm gonna get a five milligram or a 10 milligram or a 50 or 100 milligram you know yeah um and back in the day you know and you know when i was doing edibles more it was like is this ganja goo ball am i going to feel anything yeah all the way up to i'm in my tent and i can't move yeah and i'm missing the festival because i'm horizontal you know yeah okay so chimera just chimera just answered he said no it crosses the blood brain barrier more easily makes sense it converts in the liver not the gut which totally makes sense yeah i knew i was gonna i knew i was gonna misspeak i knew that it affected you differently and it converted differently yeah um i was nervous to talk about the various science of it because i i wasn't i probably wasn't gonna get there yeah see i'm very um adventurous and i'll talk about the science of it you know exactly nothing what i'm talking about so i'm good at that part i just knew that it converted differently and it and it lasted longer and it has a different series of effects uh than inhale and then smoking yeah i noticed someone said that um people with diabetes can't feel edibles and i can absolutely disprove that because i'm diabetic and i can feel edibles yeah i mean i i've been on you know i've eaten some ganja goo balls at times and stuff and i definitely i'm not i'm speaking more experienced when i was like i'm in the tent and i can't move i can't stand up i need to pee am i gonna pee myself can i move yeah you know that's the good shit yeah because you know it's just like it's just bad dosing yeah these six ganja goo balls are almost worthless and you wasted your money and this one is like catatonic yeah you know do you really want to be catatonic at a festival you know yeah i know that's how you get right happens well no i mean not that i mean but it's but it's just yeah you paid money to be there and now you're laying on rocks on in a tent spinning you know um but it's just one of those things where it's like uh you know and actually too it's like it's interesting in the sense that i don't even know if i should bring this up but i have a i have a daughter that's and i have a couple daughters in middle school right and it's one of their big issues right now is edibles really think about it's taking edibles to school yeah they're easy to to mass i need an older brother an older sister or someone that's willing to go and buy them and kick them down yeah they're sour patch kids they're made in a bunch of attractive ways now like when we were kids the only way you got edibles is if some degenerate older brother made some brownies yeah exactly some shake or something like that was able to stink up their whole house or some shit yeah now they can get like these really attractive much more controllable packages right they're you're not going to get caught with a lighter or a pipe or stinking like weed or anything like that you can just eat like a 10 milligram yeah right and so they're a lot more prevalent makes sense nerds ropes sour patch kids rice crispy treats all kinds of there's an immense amount of of baking and candy and shit and much more controllable amounts that uh i just don't like it and i'm not what you're saying is kids are good customers none you know i just mean that kids kids are going to get access to whatever is cool that's available in their local area and it's easy to smuggle in i mean i remember back in high school they would do like locker raids and all kinds of shit trying to catch us dealing drugs and uh we didn't have things like you know gummy bears and shit like that if you if you took out some of those gummy bear if you took out some sour patch kids from uh from a unedible thing you got and you put them in a real sour patch kids thing and took them in your lunchbox or your thing or backpack how would they fucking know exactly yeah visible at that point you know um but you know so i just uh i just i just don't like edibles you know i just don't like edibles um but um we kind of got off we kind of got off track there or whatever but it's like a big thing you know some people are into them but they steal they steal my they steal my equilibrium i don't know if they steal other people's equilibrium but i start not feeling the right way and then i get hot and when you get hot and you have the spins i mean how fun is that yeah you end up puking that's uh it's not fun for me no you know but you know and i think it'll probably take like it would probably take like international freedom where weed really becomes opened up you know yeah for americans over here at least to really start trying like the finest grades of imported hashish i just don't see i i see the the world opening up and it being so super corporate and hyper illegal that nobody's going to be fucking with shit like that you know it's going to be in afghanistan they'll have those small clubs and all that shit and it'll be just that culture infiltrating everywhere as opposed to letting the cultures that are their state are being able to try each other's cultures uh who knows there's money to be made off this shit you know right now you know you can get you can get greek olive oil you know you can get those iberian hams that cost 1800 for the leg that have been dry aged x amount you know what you can't get you know what you can't get tie land races anymore it's very very hard things are disappearing not just the not just the strains but the cultures are disappearing with them in some senses and granted that's not a hash culture necessarily but it just like just like those strains disappearing i mean it's you know the techniques are going to be going with them over time so you know people saying people people are talking about people paying more for six star or whatever else so there's an aspect where you know there's obviously different grades right but no matter how pure you make it you're still limited by your starting material yeah are you all getting it from a single source right is it all the same cultivars all the same cut are you getting it from a field are you getting it from a unique planted thousands seeds and you're harvesting those females yeah you know um and uh and all that and so uh you know there's an aspect there where um you know because you're going to cut hash is concentrated right yeah where you're going to concentrate what was in the flower yeah you're going to concentrate the qualities of that of that thc or that blend or that cbd cbn terpene profile all that you know what do they call it entourage effect yes you know so you just you're going to get a vastly different experience probably from moroccan from lebanese to afghanistan to southeast asian to sherbolado yeah right yes sherbolado sherbolado and then a lot of times too people people still like even hash makers right now it's like oh my god this is unbelievable the terpenes off it are amazing but it yielded 2% so fuck it i'm not going to do it yeah right people want hash dumpers yeah it's gotta it's gotta be commercially viable first yeah or it won't get beyond some small little circle there might be some there might be a few friends that like wash it and they're all trading grams amongst each other and all stoked but it won't trickle down to where the normal person can get it because it wasn't a viable amount exactly and i'm not a hash guy that that big or whatever but i do know from working in legal cannabis and stuff like that that there's minimum numbers of weight return that you need to get to make it be viable yeah to pay for your time to pay for the equipment to pay for the shift work and all the stuff that goes into making hash so if it doesn't dump enough regardless of how nice it affects you yeah it's going to get it's going to get shifted to the side yeah and if you've got something that that blows your head off but it yields three and a half percent and its sister plant tastes a little bit different and doesn't work as good but yields six percent yeah six percent is getting run and washed all day yeah because that's making a money you know so um you know so there's that too where it's like the commercial side of it people might think oh we have the best hash in the world but unless it's commercially viable you'll probably never see it unless you're growing it and washing it and making it yourself yeah or in your small circle of friends and trading it amongst each other just like you know just like before like if you were growing a 12 or 13 or 14 week plant you'd probably never be able to buy that in a store yeah i wouldn't think so GMO is probably the first thing that came out that took 12 weeks that people were willing to jump on yeah that always shocked me especially coming from the cookies well part of the reason part of the reason why i think people were willing to jump on it was because even though it took two weeks four weeks longer than they wanted or three weeks longer than they wanted it dumped like crazy yeah and it tested super high and it smelled like chemd and chemd was not everywhere yeah so it like so you know that so the yield made it worth it yeah right where if the yield doesn't make the extra time worth it i mean and matt and i joke that like i mean there's some pretty famous breeders out there that are like if it if it takes any longer than 63 days it's fucked yeah or i'm harvesting it early yeah i've got this banger columbian and it takes 11 weeks but i don't take it longer than 63 days because it doesn't fit my model yeah you know and that's kind of how that rolls yeah and uh American way the American well it's just it's it's there's a difference between quality and commercial yeah and that's what i mean too about about like for instance the uh the wine industry is now there's enough education in the wine industry that a certain seven or eight-year-old cabernet from a certain winery in a certain region you can get that extra duckets to make that a viable product right now cannabis doesn't have enough of that separation to make the rare and the cool and the expensive worth it right there's all there's like this range that everybody's working in and we haven't gotten educated enough that you could be like you should pay more for this weed because it's neville's haze and it takes 15 weeks and you know it does this eventually you'll have people that are willing to throw down for that yeah right right now you don't right right now it's just it's it's you don't you know and so until you get that level of education until you get that consumer willing to pay for it i honestly think like the reason why people are going to yell at me for this but i think the reason why freaking haze did so well in new york right was because there was there was musicians and rich people and wall street brokers to sell it to yeah they could they could sell them a higher grade yeah straight up just like that you know i mean do you think kush would have been so popular in in la if it wasn't 7200 a pound wholesale oh yeah no never there was an aspect of it where where it became massive because in la it was like oh this is expensive and exclusive and it's not in your bag yeah and then people wanted what the what what people had it yeah right and people were willing to pay a shit ton for it but we really haven't gotten there with weed yet too much there's individual things that break through here and there but we really haven't gotten the criteria as to like why this weed or why this hash is nicer and should be more expensive yeah you know um you know i mean i even saw there was there was some shit i can't remember what it was i you know i see that uh you know uh chimera is on here he was talking earlier this week about he's got rks that he doesn't want to release because it's got unique traits in it that he wants to utilize later yeah and he doesn't think the market's ready for it whatever those traits might be you know and that could be that could be true too there's lots of times the market isn't ready for anything i've always been very good at being um at the forefront of stuff and absolutely making no sales being at the forefront of stuff and watching others come and clean up with it it's just about hitting it at the right time when the market's ready for something i mean we talked about that before too like all that superdog work that me and my and my homie did you know yeah um that was like years before american seed sellers could really get a toehold yeah we had no place for it to go yeah you know we had no place for it to go you know so um uh you know it's it's gotta be the right it's got it there's gotta be a balance between commercially viable and fire yeah and it has to match you know so i don't know right now it's like we've been we went to war with afghanistan for 20 years so it's probably not the uh it's probably not the best time to go over there as a white guy and start looking around for hashish so and and rare things like that you know yeah you can get Taliban or whatever um but you know but uh um but they actually have a real culture over there yeah they have a real vibrant hashish culture and it's just separated from us you know it's always a trip to me with with how how um religiously conservative those areas are but there still is a breeding culture or a weed culture there you know it's so counter to the muslim culture i just you know it's like i think it's one of those things where it's like uh it predated you know predated the that whole thing yeah maybe it's just it's it's well it's just kind of like how you know like you know there's any number of different things where like christianity just absorbed certain pagan rituals into itself oh yeah that's true good because they because they couldn't get rid of it yeah so they co-opted it right yeah and so you want to bring you want to bring a lot to to afghanistan you're gonna have to incorporate some hashish yeah because it's ancient there and they ain't getting rid yeah should have done that with christians you know better here yeah i mean well you know they i mean they it just it just didn't it's probably an anomaly yeah in all honesty yeah you know like it's an accident you know um and you know they probably didn't realize how much effect they were gonna have a thousand years later or two thousand years later i'm sure in the in that regard you know yeah so but yeah i mean hash you know the the hash in america is moving along really quickly and i wish i could go back to to um maybe i will sometime go back and um and talk in in holland and stuff like that and see what what they have right now is their best stuff yeah that'd be interesting to know and just how it affects you yeah because that's what they all talk about is the the flavor and the effect is just unused can't used can't get it and other shit i'll be the judge of that shit you know i don't know yeah but and they also know even back when i was going back there a bunch it was like they would grab you know like you know a certain amount of helos would hit amsterdam and it would all get bought up by collectors and then they all sit on it and hope that they didn't run out before they found something else of that quality yeah and so they have a chunk of this and a chunk of this and a chunk of that and you know so on and so forth and whatnot and that's what you know they they'd smoke they'd smoke they'd they'd almost keep flour for the americans yeah and then they'd show you and then they'd show you what they really were we're into yeah in that regard you know um and you know and so uh you know we're we uh i don't know maybe maybe there's a there's an aspect with america where we blend we blended a bunch of the smoking weed with a bunch of the hashish weed what do you mean kind of create huh what do you mean well you know we took stuff that was bred for smoking like tine or columbia and and mexican and things of that nature and then we blended it with all this stuff that was specifically designed for hashish yeah like all the afghans that came over originally yeah that was all bred exclusively for they didn't they weren't going for like does this flour taste good yeah they never tasted the flour right yeah they hashed it but the hash had to taste have a taste of its own you know but it's different it's different when you're burning aged hash that's versus versus like a bunch of flour material yeah you know and so we started figuring all that out and we started blending it with sativas and blending it with different things and trying to see how they all came out yeah you know it's weird in the sense that like america and holland sort of became the two places i should say canada too north america yeah sort of became where like all the various regions of weed started blending yeah you could probably put australia in that category it sounds like it sounds like i don't have a lot of familiarity with over there but like it sounds like australia was another melting pot where they got a bunch of southeast asian weed and they got a bunch of uh they got a bunch of indian and and afghanistan and pakistan and blends of different stuff you know yeah and whatnot and so you know it uh and there was people too maybe we could switch we could switch bases for a second there was people that were asking which is more matt's world than mine i can let him talk for a minute about what the what the internet what the seed market is like outside of us like outside of us outside of our like little sts reversals like what everyone's familiar with oh this guy's dropping caps dropping something matt's dropping something csi has a drop here comes these people you know because we're used to like very small scale um you know like and i think probably most people think of the last 10 years is what's normal yeah but that's not really i would think so yeah but that's not really what's out i mean but you know obviously like so maybe you could talk for a minute about like what what is it like out there well i mean like so like someone like my mirror that's been around before me he's going to have a different experience than when i entered when i entered in you had to fuck with europeans or your seeds weren't going to sell you know if you weren't fucking with european seed bank and we're trying to do direct you had a very very small chance of getting any meaningful cells because people wanted to buy from seed banks seed banks were known there wasn't a lot of places to do exchanges you could always you know do it get down in the dms on different forums and stuff but that was that was really not cool like it wasn't looked at as a cool thing to do by the the forum owners because they were they were kind of taking a some risk for your exchange even though it was done in the dms it's still on their server and transaction so it wasn't looked upon positively by a lot of the the forum owners for anybody to be doing any exchanges of any sorts and usually you'd get banned from uh places for doing anything of the sort um so we were we were mostly counting on um when i entered in it had just started the british and uh attitude wasn't a thing when i first started um but yeah most of it was outside of the us i think heaven stairway was was that canada or that u.s i think uh canada i think it was canada but i'm canada i believe is it canada or cal rizian was i believe so yeah i mean he had the canadian seed banks a lot of them wouldn't pick up american folks i remember um med user chris over over at woodhorse seeds he was really not friendly to most americans um hemp depot was around but you still had a hard time getting them to pick up most americans so being an american you had the choice mostly of british or if you were lucky like a a dutch seed bank would pick you up but yeah it's it was minimal a lot of it like when when i got booted off the attitude subcool had asked and basically gave that given them a uh ultimatum me or him and at the time there was just me and him that were the americans on there when i left the attitude and uh unceremoniously left um i had to figure out what was i going to do is i going to take the risk be the one american trying to sell direct or was i going to just find another seed bank and get fucked so first thing i did was try to operate a seed bank with a few other americans and unfortunately chose the brothel brothers who were were notorious scammers and they got me and eventually i just learned fuck i got to do this myself or or it's it's not going to work and from there you know i mean you could be operating great in the u.s but if you weren't taking credit cards like the europeans then you just weren't going to be any sort of competition and those were always going to get the the sales nowadays it's a lot different nowadays there's all sorts of direct buying uh instagram kind of changed a lot you know instagram made everyone a lot more accessible um seeds were a lot easier to sell because people weren't as interested in effect they were more interested in learning uh by looking you know oh that's pretty that look that looks dank became a real catchphrase during instagram ooh that looks dank but i mean back in the day we kind of knew that looks didn't mean anything when it came to date this i mean yeah the the weird thing let me interject for a second because i'm seeing stuff in the comments is that america was an enormous seed market yes but everyone that tried to deal with america typically got in trouble yeah so everyone in europe you know when they saw what happened in neville um yeah the super sativa seed club just shut down and a lot of you know seed banks became very hesitant to ship stuff to america yeah and then canadian seed banks sort of took over that that role for a minute and started being willing to ship stuff to america and a lot of times they sort of like took the reins from europe because europe would send it to canada yeah you know and it would get and it would get filtered through but as as uh you know kim era was mentioning a few minutes ago um heaven stairway went down because there was an intercepted shipment to the united states and that got cannabis world and overgrowth shut down at the same time and well and we we're gonna do a full episode on this me and flan but it's we're gonna go into detail on um silk road heaven stairway overgrow ic mag and how they were all related in the big bust and this is over a period of several years i mean it's that people are still being prosecuted from one major fuck up yeah and then that's one why i used to go to amsterdam to buy seed in the 90s is because that was the most reliable way to get it uh getting it shipped over was very difficult you know and a lot of people wouldn't do it uh mark emory who had you know canada's culture magazine uh and all that and he had his whole seed company um he ended up doing i don't know five-ish years or something like that in america in prison for seed sales um so there was a big issue with america's this voracious seed market but how do you get seeds there without getting in trouble yeah and so you know there wasn't you know people on ig now you can see all these things and that's why i was joking about you know oh this guy's got a drop coming you know when 20 years ago or whatever when i was doing a bunch of breeding work um there was no outlet to get that to anyone yeah there was no way to advertise it there was no way to set up shipping there was no way to i mean even like somebody like dj short who um ended up working with a bunch of canadians part of the reason why he worked with so many people was that in order for his sweet his stuff to get out there he had to work with tony from sag martha first yeah and then he ended up working with the dutch passion crew i think yeah i think a dutch passion and he ended up not liking that and then he ended up working with various people up in canada but he had to work with third parties because there was no way for him to safely distribute advertise and communicate with people from america to get seeds out yeah so it really wasn't until social media exploded and ig exploded and proposition 215 and medical started spreading enough that it started calming down yeah for all these seed companies like you know think about all the popular you know uh cap or or you know swamp boys or these people are you know cookie anybody right all these people came up and their possibilities started in the social media ig yeah so what matt's talking about is how difficult it was as an american seed breeder to even find a home that could that could be a middle man that could get that could get your seeds out to people so you know my buddy that uh that i yeah he doesn't like to be mentioned but my buddy i call statin island he kept talking about like the potential for seeds and i was totally dismissive right and we were both right right at the time i was right but he saw 10 or 15 years down the road what was coming yeah you know he did he saw it but it just wasn't there yet i remember making that that shift from um cash dropping i mean it's a very very clear memory for me when i had to make that choice of fuck i can cash crop or i can make seeds i'm learning i cannot do both you know and having to make something that i know i know i can make enough money to survive growing chinsamia that's not what i love to do you know that way that did that slowly was not my passion anymore my passion was making seeds and and learning what i could create you know what could be created in these rooms and uh having to make that decision to only go to seeds was a tough one because at the time they it was very risky there wasn't a lot of money in seeds i mean grantee greenhouses killing it dna was killing it but americans just weren't killing it at that killing it at that level yet i mean dna we can talk about dna for a second those are two americans plumber in the stunt cop yeah and they you know they they went to humboldt and mendow and all these different places and they gathered up a bunch of seed and a bunch of clones from various friends but they had to go to holland to make a seed company yeah there was no there was no in the early 2000s there was no way they were going to do an american-based seed company how would they even get a hold of you yeah how would you get a hold of them how would you not get busted yeah you know it was uh it wasn't it wasn't very easy and so we basically worked first through holland and that's kind of why holland became the epicenter was it allowed it yeah right neville got lucky because he had balls and a bunch of american breeders were fleeing prosecution in america and bringing him stuff right and you know he got stuff from from greg and he got stuff from sam scott man and he and he got stuff through mel frank and jorge servantes and he got stuff from jim ortega all these people you know because that was the place that it could go yeah and then when canada became the place it could go that's where it all went and then when california and orgin and washington started being the place that it could go that's where it went yeah and it really sucks because there's this artificial line between america and canada that sort of kept our two cultures it's made it a lot more difficult to huh yeah i'm not gonna lie between 2007 and 2010 the fact that it was such a small market it was fucking killer you didn't have all kinds of competition i mean the the best competition i had was like swerve and sub at the time and rascal you know for americans and rascal was he was at the top of the the food chain when it came to reversals but i mean sub and swerve you know yeah no i i mean there's there's there's an aspect of it but it's like that you know um people think that like people don't realize how long it took to get to get democracy where some guy in a garage could have a 15 lighter or two or three four lighters or whatever yeah and make some breeding and do a drop yeah and advertise the drop and let uh and and let everyone know that it was coming you know i was just thinking about something as far as drops go like i remember when that was a looked at very negatively if you're gonna do a drop meaning can hit one male to more than five or six plants you were a shitty pollen chucker and that was like a mark of shame like drops were not a thing and now that's the common accepted way this clone or this male crossed a x amount of clones and that's the accepted way but back in the day that was not you were not looked at favorably i mean that's what i did so i'm not looking down on anyone for doing it i was one of the people looked down on not favorably for doing those i mean we talked about it before but you know 12 or 14 years ago the four or five guys uh doing reversals were looked upon as cheating yeah it's cheating you're ruining the fucking you are ruining genetics for good you're ruining the gene pool you're eliminating males you're taking shortcuts you're doing this fucked up thing that shouldn't be done you're trying to do shortcuts to make a quick buck yeah um and it went from that and it was you know i don't know uh emory is a douche bag i totally agree that he is i think most people agree he's a con that he is a he is a not an he is not a nice person um by any means um you know i mean but you know there's a there's a lot of people that uh you know you get to know i'm in weed and you're like oh boy yeah he's not a good kisser but yeah but there's an aspect where it's like like we've talked about it what was it it was it was matt and rascal and hype and uh a couple other a couple other people doing reversals yeah and it was a sea of of male female breeding yeah and now fast forward 12 years and it's completely reversed yeah it's like 98 percent fems and 2 percent of people doing reg breeding yeah it's rare to see people do i've got a reg seed line drop you know what's really weird too for me like i i don't do that many fem seed runs anymore i really don't even though i saw the spray and i've been doing it a long time people associate me with that i i don't do them often i don't do them very often at all and i prefer regular seed breeding because it's so much easier it's like a fucking free pass to not fail and uh yeah it's it's it's a totally different than people's uh ideas of what fem breeding is how easy it is it's uh regular breeding is easy in the sense of getting actual successful pollination yeah with real with real not not that you're going to achieve your goals that's still the breeding yeah that's a lot of that's still a lot of dead ends and failure in my opinion and sure you know and all that but but you know feminized breeding even even getting pollen and getting viable pollen um you know uh people it's a crapshoot people are saying don't think the market's telling breeders what they want no i don't necessarily i don't think that's it i think that finding males is a bunch of work and people started doing things where you can't get either one of these two elite cuttings but i'll give you a hybrid of them yeah you can't get tk by skittles yeah you know you can't get either cut but you can buy a hybrid from me and i think that's what started it and i think honestly it's like people buy what's available you know um and uh you know reversals just you just took an elite cut and you crossed it to another elite you took an elite cut and you threw that on 15 or 20 other cuts and boom you've got a seed drop yep and reversals actually really killed the the line breeding you know companies you thought we were going to talk about simon today tonight right yeah we're going to talk about sirius a little bit or whatever uh sirius seeds they offered the same six lines for like fucking 15 years yeah 20 years you know uh since he seed bank and you know uh when neville was there or whatever probably that matt and i were looking at a bunch of the catalogs they barely offered a new line for five or six years yeah it was the same as shit and then in the late 90s they added two or three more lines yeah back in the day they expected you to work on your line and refine it hopefully and you had those flagship strains yeah make those lines better over time now it's literally like i did this reversal i got x amount of seeds they're here until they're gone i probably won't make them again i gave it a name yeah you know but that's it there's no lines you can't you can't hit up you know um you could hit up sirius seeds throughout the 90s and you could get ak-47 and you could get white russian and you could get chronic and you could get bubble gum and you could get um you know whatever right and it was just on on it was just available so let me let me use this point actually to tell a story and you'll like this story because it has something to do with you so i gave not so some seeds a while back and i i was pretty sure i remembered what i gave him right um i thought i gave him an old pack of ak-47 and i i was like man when's he gonna pop those motherfuckers and i would bust his balls over it like man where's those ak-47 get him five he's like i don't know what you're talking about and i'm like fucking not so right so i bust his balls for at least a year and a half two years two years every time i lost his fucking ancient seeds i'm the old seed guy i talk up ak like crazy all this different stuff he sends him to me not only do i not do anything with him but i fuck him over by like not actually cracking them or like he won't crack them i just ignored him and then i lost them and i keep telling him i don't have them yeah over and over again and i'm like dude i gave you these fucking seeds what the fuck so anyways i was busting his balls about him again probably i don't know a month ago yeah something like that not that long and someone i hadn't talked to for a long time skunk tech hits him up and is like hey you know i haven't talked to matt but let him know that i f2 those ak-47 seed seed gave me so oh i was so happy too because i gave that up and i was like you're a dick dude you gave him to someone else and fucked me and told me that i fucking lost them and i didn't remember and i'm a stoner and fuck yeah yeah you know you sent i sent me rare shit from the 90s and i blew it off yeah but in fairness you still does have super skunk and nevels haze over there but you know there's a there's a yeah i mean in fairness to me uh before 2017 there wasn't like biblical fires every year in my area yeah yeah don't mind the fires at all and so that that ruined a number of seed crops for me and gave me kind of some ptsd and all that but yeah i mean going back to going back to simon i mean can you imagine if you know whoever you know for the last five years the swamp boys have offered the same six lines yeah matt's offered the same six lines kaila ziaz offered the same 20 and they just remake them and that's what people are doing yeah and you get you're expected to work on all those lines and improve them but you can because you're only offering half a dozen yeah now every seed drop is like fucking 20 things yeah at least usually you know and they're all given a name and they're all given packaging and they're all given this and they're all sold and that's that that's that and you'll likely never see them again because the person's not going to remake them and honestly the person the fucking the person isn't even usually growing them out anymore yeah you know so i will say just just to finish the story i will give scunk techs a major props he didn't even have to tell me that he had those he didn't have to tell me that he did selections and made more and he certainly didn't have to tell not so to make sure i get them you know or make sure i know about them to get them so props to him for doing that i was that was pretty fucking cool and uh there are ak47f2 somewhere and they're based on the cherry stuff so that's cool too what's sad about it is that in 1999 they changed the laws in holland in amsterdam and i should say the netherlands really because only two provinces are holland but in the netherlands they changed the seed laws where before seed making was legal and they changed it to being illegal and most of the big producers in in the netherlands got busted within a year or two of that change yeah um and a lot of seed strains and a lot of lines that were available throughout the 90s then changed because parents were lost yes being dutch uh and i'm not trying to be racist is the wrong word or whatever but just culturally the dutch are businessmen and they won't admit that they lost anything ever yeah so if you ask ben or ellen drunkers they'll tell you they have all the same breeding parents that they've had since the 90s yeah but we know that's not the case and it apparently simon admitted that he lost a couple of breeding parents in in his raid and collie mist and ak47 were not the same after yeah we should also it should also be said and this is super fucking annoying for me right but that neville and super sativa seed club kind of came first right so they just told you where they were what they were doing yeah they didn't have competition right so neville was like oh i got this nl from this person and i got this from this this and i crossed them and i called it nl by this yeah right and and he gave you a whole bunch of information on lineage yeah and we can go through we've done it before but you can go through and most of where neville got his stuff we know the name of the person that gave it to him we know where he got it we know if he got it as a seed line or if he got it as a cutting right yeah we know all that shit as far i like simon and simon was really nice to me right but i don't fucking know what's in ak47 yeah i don't know exactly what's in collie mist i've been hunting for 25 30 years what the lineage on that stuff is yeah and all the second wave of breeders uh that came out sag martha syria seeds th seeds dutch passion all you know uh um what's his name um luke from paradise yes what's in sensei star god only knows what's in what they all started hiding it yeah they hid where they got it from who they got it from what the mix was in right and so it started this massive guessing game of i love ak47 yeah i have no idea what's in it i would love for simon to one day be like i'm old and i'm just down to to say it you know what i one thing i will say that's also interesting is from that old pack of seeds and i believe they were sold at simon said according to the number on it they were sold in 2000 which meant they could have been made in 98 99 what was interesting was that the cherry you know was supposedly popping up what would he say one in 500 or one in a thousand something a lot it took a lot to find it in the three seeds it popped out of ten from this old pack two were cherry so i wonder if there's some sort of like viking in it um which was a very cherry line floating around amsterdam at the time that a lot of people are using um but that that's the first thing that that makes me think that and i think that's pretty interesting it could you know let me just say that that uh something that i didn't know that it wasn't lost in the bus that simon's ex-wife killed them killed a couple plants out of the spike oh wait that it was it was it's common knowledge that he lost them and i mean i always heard that he lost them yeah um but you know i assumed it was in the bust and he admitted that he lost one parent but he never admitted that he lost more than that yeah but he would just never give up the mix yeah he just never you know that that's another thing that also really confused me is that i don't understand why they would i granted a lot of them were trying to steal each other's clones and steal each other's seeds or whatever but if they were breeders they would know that how expressions in cannabis work you know so they probably like i would think that they wouldn't be focused too much on well we can't tell them the name or the the the line that this came from because they'll get the same thing and no one as you're aware uh neville's opinion was they stole most of it from him and didn't want to give him fucking credit yeah i know yeah he thought everything is his though no matter i'm not saying it is i'm not saying it's true yeah but for whatever reason um you know like yeah what's in chronic what's what's what's collie mist what's what's what's ak 47 what are the parents yeah where do you get the parents who gave them the parents yeah you know um all that right you just don't know yeah you know they've never come out and say and those things came out in the mid 90s yeah so we're talking 25 years plus of him being secretive yeah you know and yeah neville had an ego and he thought the whole fucking scene was based on his shit yeah and some of it was but some of it was his ego you know i still think he renamed afghani one i mean i know you do you know i'm always i'm always going to push that theory and it's based on nothing but i'm still going to push it just because i can i mean one of the things that i learned about uh someone just asked what do i believe in collie mist um i was told by some guys in amsterdam that um you know that the mother plant was this thing called the mango and it was made by this guy that i don't want to name his name or whatever but it was it was he was the guy that came up with it and that was at least half of it um and i see people uh uh you know there's people want to talk about whatever but i mean the thing is is that when i went over there and when i started going over there in the mid 90s there was already a bunch of dudes that were middle age that all had beef with one another yeah and obviously neville and sam had a bunch of beef with one another and they sniped at each other for years um and so there's an aspect there's an aspect too where it's like sometimes people just didn't want to give other people credit yeah they didn't want it to come from them yeah you know they didn't want it to be that way they didn't want to they didn't want to be like oh well i got that from home yeah because homie was addicted to them and their mind you know yeah and then they had beef and so then there was politics you can look at the politics of 90s amsterdam and you can fast forward 30 years and it goes on today in california yeah it's very common this is this is one of the old pictures of afghani one that has a lot of similar traits to what you will see in in things like super skunk or even kim 91 and that's one of the the things that originally put me on to that and seeing any la afi cut that we had that was a afghani number one selection homie just said uh cali mist was originally called western winds western winds was one of my favorite all time cannabis names cambodian cambodian something that's what they said but i don't fucking know it's supposedly when they were at cerebral together it was the same thing okay and they broke off tony called his version western winds and simon called his cali mist but they were the same thing yeah they were there i mean maybe they maybe they made different breeding selections or choices but they were the same the same origin for the most part i will say tony tony has been ridiculously transparent and open with me when it comes to asking any questions he's the only dutch dude who had a seed bank from back then that never like flinches when i ask him something he's always been super open even if it's not like even if he doesn't know the answer he'll tell you well i do i don't really know this came i bought it in bulk from xyz and that's what it is and that's all we know he's been really fucking cool about it so i gotta give props to him for that you know i mean maybe maybe he would say what it was but maybe if it came from simon or he had be for some guy he didn't like he wouldn't say it yeah because that goes on today like people don't want to give other people credit if they don't like the person you know or they feel like they got jacked on a i mean even like somebody like sam like if it wasn't for mel frank uh i don't you know talking about it years later you wouldn't know that afghani won and durbin poison came through mel frank yeah and he gave him to sam yeah you know sam showed up in amsterdam with him you know yeah um and uh you know and then you know tony tony has you know and then once a line splits maybe different breeders make different selections yeah they lean it towards one direction or another you know they lose him with that i'm done and and the bubble gum and like the different ways simon worked bubble gum supposedly and all that yeah i mean i know that i know i you know i didn't i didn't know until tonight that that simon's x or whatever killed killed the cut but simon's collie mist in the 90s was much more sativa leaning and then around 99 2000 it got shorter and thicker and more more indica more afghan and it lost some of the ethereal qualities that i liked a bunch about it you know that's one that i'd really like to reproduce and we have the old seats to do it but i just it's one of those ones that like i'd spend money and time reproducing it and they would just sit there you know and nobody grew up because collie mist really isn't one that people talk about you know the average grower still in the u.s it's fun there's phenos in western winds and you can look in western winds and collie mist especially in like some mid to late 90s high times cannabis cups like the glossy pictures they would have in those in those things um and uh you know and um you know so they uh there those are really nice you know yeah and um you know and uh you know then then he comes out and says it's kind of true i don't mean that like sam took a bunch of credit for it i just mean that it was like in the list of stuff that that mel that you know that he brought to amsterdam yeah and he didn't obviously say well i got these two things from these guys and i got these from these guys and here's the three haze brothers names that i got these seats like you know sketchy back then yeah so you still can't get that shit out of him you still can't get that out of him all i he'll tell me is that i'm wrong about the aster he won't tell me what one day you know one day i mean it's uh one thing about weed is that people are opinionated yes and it takes a certain kind of person to take the risks that we all take and the various things that go on and you know we get beef you know and all that stuff and so but it's it's also true that a lot of weed is a flash in the pan so it's it might be around for two or three or four years five years and then all of a sudden it's gone or it's not there in the same it's not there in the same in the same category anymore yeah it doesn't exist um and there's some there's some really good versions of ak that still float around um there was an ak in colorado that our good buddy working men and i talk about all the time that was a huge yielding beast of a sativa um and it smelled exactly like sandalwood did pure sandalwood turps uh matt worked with an ak version that had strong cherry liqueur cherry and then lemon i had a lemon one too that was awesome and then i had the rc cola fenu they used to go around skunk magazine and it smelled like flat cola it was it was pretty uncanny so that that's a pretty wide turp range in the ak line and and and interesting and unique turps and a lot of them had some pretty god some pretty good highs with them too you know so that was a really simon didn't have a lot of strains but you know the only the only strain that i think he had there was absolute bunk and i apologize if you hear this simon is chronic yeah i grew out a bunch of chronic and it was big and midsy and ugly and i never found anything worthwhile in it but yeah his bubble gum and his ak and his white russian and his cali mist and all that that was all real nice weed i think white russian is totally underrated too from all white russian is super underrated strain and it was one of his standards for a long time and it was killer weed yeah there was some really nice phenos of it you know i wish i knew i wish just for my weed nerdism or whatever i wish i knew you know i wish i knew what ak 47 was yeah like what is it i think if we're getting these cherry liqueur phenotypes is from hexabunerate not a turp but do you think that i mean because we know that during that time there was one real strong cherry kicker that was being used in amsterdam um which was the either the hullins hope which was a version of the viking or just using viking and they were being used widely at that time so i i i've never now that i know that it's just like and how how commonly it occurs it almost seems like it would have to be in we have chimera and cry baby both telling us that the cherry is is uh from uh it's not a turp you know yeah that's why you know it's it's theols and all all the various esters and all the various things that lead to aromas uh that's not now the height that's not that's not matt nye's uh fortain necessarily there's a lot of learning that i could do over there that would expand my knowledge um but i would love if he told me what was in it yeah and it would be really it would be really neat just to know because it's one of the all-time great strains yeah the super cool strain and it's neat that there's um it's neat that there is uh maybe here's something that we've talked about and that most people don't don't think about too much but we're getting close to the end but i'll throw it out there yeah and maybe this is something that like uh chimera could chime in on or whatever but um what would happen let's say you have two ak47s or you know or two nl5 hazes or something like that from the 90s and you're pretty damn sure that they are what they are that they're the exact same era they're the exact same parents they're just two different two different plants but from the same seedline yeah if you reverse one onto the other do you get a feminized seedline because it's not an outcross and it's not an s1 so so give me the situation again let's say you took uh you know um uh a cherry ak and crossed it to the colorado sandalwood ak okay it's not an s1 and it's not an outcross no right that's when we make up words like in cross that's when we make them up because cannabis is very unique and we got to make up our own fucking words i just mean you can do it you could do it with anything you could take any any anything that you know are sisters yeah and that came from the same parents right because most people that are doing reversals 99.99 percent of reversals are either s1s or outcrosses yeah we would i mean i know me and kayla refer to them as f2r's just when we talk so we know what we're talking about but i don't think there's any standard term because there's a way where it's like you know part of the reason why we do s1s uh one of the reasons why we do it in cannabis at least is because often there's only one phenol there's only one living cut of a certain line left and in order for you to look within the genetics of the line and see what else might be in there you have to cross it to itself yeah we would make normal lines out of a lot of these strains had we a male yes or had we but if you have two females and you're sure they're the exact same thing right then you could breed two sisters together yeah and it wouldn't be inbreeding as much because they would have two different genetic profiles yes right it's not you're not in you're not inbreeding to the extent that an s1 would be no no you're not you're not isolating traits still so you take you take a sandalwood smelling ak-47 and you cross it onto the cherry ak-47 yeah and you you know and then you have you have a you have a a feminized seed line maybe that's what uh bitter did with the p91 s1s took two different p91 s1s and cross them together to create his next but the difference is that those are two s1s crossed together yeah i'm talking about like two sisters from the same exact hybrid you see i'm saying that's what it was though two sisters from the same because if you have an s1 if you have two sisters from an s1 there's one parent an s1 has one parent right there's two identical parents so the genetics is essentially one parent but if you take two sisters from a regular line right yeah then it's two parents you know and it's like if you like for instance i got multiple daughters you look at my daughters they're not two peas from the same pod yeah obviously you know they have some of they got you know they look very different from each other yeah you know my wife and i's genes popped in different ways in that regard so you're referring specifically to an f1 hybrid and then using two sisters from that f1 hybrid not from a reversal yeah necessarily like let's say for instance you took um you know we can't get we can't guarantee this but let's say you took c5 yes and crossed it to cuban black and you were sure you know that you're you had two phenos of nl5 haze yeah and you knew that the mom was nl5 and the dad was haze in both it was just two phenos from the same thing right and you crossed those that you reversed one onto the other yeah that's probably one of the most rare things in breeding because then you'd have a feminized line but it wouldn't be an s1 i mean the only difference between that in the feminized version would be that the feminized version would have less variation because there wasn't an additional line at the what we're calling the parental level but that's all i just mean in the sense that so let's say you take let's say you make a cherry ak s1 yeah you're gonna only have the gene pool that's within that specific that specific plant it would be going in that direction for that right but if you had if you had a sister of hers yes there's so many different even though they're sisters she probably has a different a slightly different genetic makeup so it'd be a sibling cross yeah but it's almost never done because we almost never have to it wouldn't be nearly as inbred yeah wouldn't be nearly as inbred as a as a reverse cross and you'd probably you'd probably get like a a lot wider expression within the seats you know what's interesting though what you're describing is almost exactly what dj did with blueberry two things that were were from the same parentage to diff totally opposite different expressions and constantly recross them from a small population each generation i mean i'm not saying that like in a perfect world if you had hundreds of seeds that's the direction that you you should go in oh no no but i'm just saying that like is a method sure there's there's an aspect where it's like if all you have in the line is one living living example then you all you can do is self it yeah but if you got two then you could widen the gene pool just slightly yeah and have and have a grip of seeds that had a slightly wider gene pool then you could get with s1 yeah but i think like if you keep it like archived he did it with moonbow 99 and moonbow 112 yeah i think if you do that and you keep doing it in successive generations what you get is a lot of mutants and weirdness without necessarily the the narrow down variation i was just thinking in terms of like 90s weed or various things where you might get lucky and you might have one or you might have two or even three phenos that might exist yeah you see them yeah like where it wouldn't be that that would probably be i don't know you know it's just something that's not often done but if there's two phenos from the same line you might be able to figure it out but it's almost never done think of somebody think of somebody that has it often it's like it's almost like back crossing to it's not often you don't see back you don't see back crosses to males often done but it's an interesting thing you know what i mean it has its place yeah i just in terms of i mean in terms of most genetic preservation we're like super lucky if one phenome of an old line survives oh yeah for sure you know but in the case of in the case of nl5 by hay c there's probably three or four or five that survived yeah a lot more than that i think if we really knew for sure i think there'd be a lot more you know and so there's potential where you could you could you know you could i don't know i mean it's just interesting in that in that regard right yeah project the monster those are not siblings um let's see we don't know for sure they're not fucking siblings i don't think so yeah but we once and parents of the we hoped that we hoped that that phylos and some other and some other genetic groups would be able to prove these things and it has not happened yeah no phylos got everybody's money because they promised they would be able to show what was a grandparent what was a child what was a what was a daughter what was a mother and not not the case and we're still going to do a full episode on that eventually um on why why we were able to prove that it was a broken system uh effectively prove it but um yeah you're going to give it a little bit of time so people don't get too butt hurt and sue and all that shit you know but it's it's just one of those things where uh between no whether males or females are responsible specific there's no there's no you know there's a lot of there's a lot of stuff that um because because cannabis for a long time has been well i just i was just gonna say that um cannabis for a long time has been deprived of science or the science aspect of uh of breeding uh most of it is observational by people still to this day there are some people that um uh there are some people that are doing that are doing work that are using a lot more scientific methods and things like that but it's rare still yeah most cannabis breeding is observational and so it's hard to know males and females um you know we just don't have we just we just were up until 10 fit 10 years ago or something like that we were mostly denied labs yeah we were mostly denied access to what you know normal breeders would be able to use all the time you know so i want to do a giveaway before we're done since we're almost at two hours and i actually thought of something to do so you didn't have to um so like we used to do back in the back in i don't know a year or two ago i picked out um a phrase there's going to be a blank spot in this phrase and whoever comes up with who we all agree is the funniest answer gets the bomb threat bubble Hawaiian lights hybrid um it's one of the more expensive ones so i wanted to get it out there so people can yeah anyways so we have a few different ones let me see okay here we go here it is you guys if you want to participate you're going to have to fill in the blank rub a dub dub blank in a tub who has the best answer rub a dub dub your answer in a tub who has the best answer oh man i know this one should be nice and creative rub a dub dub blank in a tub rub a dub dub dink in a tub 12 vc in a tub these nuts is always a great response fiddling tug in a tub sub in a tub oh that's a good one because that did that did exist it did exist it's so gross yeah i might have to pin this one so we remember who did sub in a tub to see if someone could be him let's see pin okay let's see what we got those pictures of sub in the tub were we're not cool oh i remember when i made the the now i'm not gonna say it since he's no longer with us yeah they just weren't they just you know pre 79 rks seeds in the tub oh sub in the tub oh my god yeah hilarious sub in his camera in a tub oh my god i mean the thing about sub in the tub is that it rhymes too you know yeah i know it's pretty good it's it's it's it's creative it has a whole thing you know yeah i don't want p but in the tub either sub should win rub it up and sub is in a tub i forgot to wear my pee butt shirt i just got another pee butt shirt for my buddy forgot it yeah so yeah i think i think we're gonna have to go with tri grown send me a send me a dm after this you get the the white the bomb threat above Hawaiian lights so yeah it's it's it's it's it can't eat it so we're almost we're almost two hours so we'll do our normal little thing here on Friday night um yeah as always we're down to totally talk a lot of what we talked about tonight was suggestions from people on our discord asking us to chat about certain things um that's a great way to get what you want talked about talked about is yeah reach out to us either on ig or joining our discord which matt always explains at the end um but we're always down to chat about things uh some episodes are kind of formal in the sense that we have a whole theme that we want to go off of um and some of them are uh some of them are are a little bit more loose and uh interactive um but always hit us up you know get me up hit me up on ig hit me up on our discord you know right now okay so you can go to page or i'm sorry google type in breeder cynic at patreon you can join us on the discord i think there's some some fights kind of the second um we just had some cool fights last week that we we hang out top shit to each other and watch the fights which has nothing to do with cannabis but hey whatever it's something else to do um you also get access to my whole uh catalog collection in pdf form which i highly recommend if you are a part of the the patreon if you don't know about that go check them out it's not just the old seed bank and and sensi catalogs there's a lot of really random uh rare ones um so yeah beaters breeder cynic at patreon go check out right seedco.com hopefully soon we'll start having more of the podcast show up um we might split it off to a new one i don't know how it's going to go but we'll see but we'll have the audio form of the podcast going back up very soon um yeah uh go check out speakeasy seed bank they've helped us along the way with with uh getting the podcast and audio form up till this point so go check them out support them and uh yeah that's it once again friday night thank you all for your time very much it's always super appreciated we like talking shit about weed um and so we'll be here again next friday night pleasure yep enjoy late oh yeah i highly recommend you guys go watch what fucking she said yeah it's a good one it's it's a good one