 As always awkwardly looking at the call recording software. We're good. We're live. Hey everybody drew here from that anxiety guide com With me again Billy from anxiety United in the UK. Good morning, Bill. Yes We're good to be here. It is always good to be here always fun So we are back again with the next in our little anxiety 101 series. We're gonna we're talking about an article I'll just go through the quick introduction. We're talking about an article. I wrote years ago It will be linked in the video description no matter where you're watching or listening You'll be able to find that and we're just taking the article step by step little section by section and kind of you know blogging vlogging whatever you call this on each section to expound on it a bit and This is number eight. I believe this is number eight in the series and today We're going to talk about the idea of finding the root cause of our anxiety problems Mm-hmm, and I don't know much how much importance you put on that. Yes, and it's important That I think this might be the first one that we had the first little Subject that I'm gonna start by saying this is a big one. I mean it isn't they're all important But this isn't one of those ground-shaking ones. I think yeah Other than and I guess I'll start the discussion by saying I think finding the root of the problem is something that is always worth doing But it this is a subject that could kind of along with the we're going to do next week about Therapy and professional help these are things that aren't necessarily impediments to progress Which we talk about a lot obstacles, but they could send people down maybe a wrong path Not necessarily bad, you know working on yourself is always good But in terms of dealing with anxiety sometimes this can send people down the wrong path You know and waste a little time, so maybe we'll talk about that a bit So in terms of finding there, I'll just start by what I wrote here So I wrote finding the causes of your panic attacks is a good thing, but not by itself Mm-hmm stress negative thinking reactions to past traumas and emotional issues issues are just some of the many possible Panic and anxiety triggers and we're all different our life circumstances are all different and that means there is no one cause for panic attacks So I don't know maybe we should start with that. Have you ever gone down the road where you know It's a well if you just get to the bottom of this will solve Yeah, no, I think for me Like the the main instigating factor was stress like I had a major stressful event Okay, I was also I don't know whether other people know but I was a weed smoker When this first started or I just stopped smoking weed so whether that was a contributing factor I don't know okay, but I think for me like just these Explosions of stress and these events. That's what caused my initial panic So I think the stress led to the panic response But then since then it's it's just been a Fear of having another panic attack. So that's what I was thinking with finding the root cause I don't think the root cause is the problem of the panic anymore Because it's the panic that is the problem of the panic. It's not the fact that I had a stressful Event I don't think about that when I panic anymore. I think about the last panic or You know, I mean, yeah, so finding it's not it's not the cause It's just the stressful event but knowing that that happened has no effect on whether I freak out in the next 10 minutes or not All right, well, let's wrap it up because I think you just summed it up for today. We're done Yeah, bam Billy totally nailed it I think and that is my view on this too finding the root cause that led you into a state of anxiety to begin with is Not never a bad thing to do But when you get into a situation where you're dealing with panic disorder or an anxiety disorder We're like Billy just said what you're actually afraid of is the next panic attack or how you feel or your symptoms Are those negative thoughts in your head? The root cause doesn't matter anymore. Now it's a new cause You know, you nailed it. You summed it up. We got we're about like four minutes in we're done I would just tell jokes and sing songs for the rest of the time Yeah, yeah, okay great two guys walking to a bar So I think that's super important and I find Recognizing that and just like anything else where we've talked about this so many times, you know It's really we're afraid of how we feel or how we might feel in a given situation That's what leads us to curtail our lifestyle and the world to get smaller for us when we're you know Afraid of panic attacks and afraid of anxiety and I see a lot of people do go down the road of like well I'm gonna see a therapist which is awesome Everybody should do it at some point in their life probably because we all have issues and everybody comes with issues That's that's totally fine. It's part of being human And I see many people go down that road where they do feel like if I could just find out why it must to you know Yeah, must have been something in my past it must You think there's possibly maybe a bit of a stigma attached to seeking therapy because when you see in movies and that there's all It's always they sit down tell me about your relationship with your mother stuff like that Yes, I play the part in people thinking that that may help them. I think that's what I always see I do think that and I think this will bleed into a little bit of next week's topic, too Yeah, yeah therapy But I do think that because in the media we are we see therapy as one thing We it's very rarely portrayed as anything But sitting in the therapist office, you know face-to-face and talking about trauma and angst and you know distress and the things that have led you to this horrible place and and that's a psychodynamic type of therapy and that's a thing and it has benefit but The best portrayal and I'll throw this out there I should save this for next week, but but I love this so much because do you ever watch the Sopranos? American I haven't I haven't my dad did and he told me quite a bit about it Yes, I should watch it the Sopranos is you know outstanding, you know It's it's been over long ago, and you know, but if you get a chance to watch the Sopranos at some point the central character Tony Sopranos this this mafia boss in New Jersey just so well done by James Gunn-Lafini. It's such a good series But he starts the series by having panic attacks. So yeah, yeah, I heard about you Yeah, and he goes to he enlists the aid of a therapist played by Lorraine Bracco And and they just sit and talk and at some point and I remember watching the series And I loved it so much thinking like this is wrong that you get the wrong therapy I'm yelling at Tony Soprano. This is the wrong therapy And at one point his therapist has her own therapist as most therapists do have their own therapist And that therapist tells her like why are you talking to this guy? You know that what you're doing is not effective for an anxiety disorder, and I remember standing up like yes They acknowledged it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but I think what you said in terms of that stigma of like well I have to dig up skeletons for my panic attacks to go away Yeah, that's not really true Because like you said once you get to the point where it's the panic itself that you fear That's it. Yeah, the skeletons fade. They don't matter anymore. I wonder if it has an effect if There was a traumatic event that led to the first panic attack whether that but would not sort of crossover into PTSD a bit would it all I've heard people talk about that. This is a tough topic because it's so There's so many facets. Yeah, we could cross over and go down different avenues and we could and here's my thought like what when When you start when you get to the point where it's actually the pound just reading a little bit when you get to the point Where it's the panic that you're afraid of like you said Whatever that root causes starts to fade into the background But once you've got to the point where you're not afraid of panic anymore like in my case, for instance You know, I live a pretty normal life at this point, but every once in a while I do experience anxiety and even panic And I you know is the root cause that led me to this in 1986 is that still an issue that Could it could be and so why am I why even though I've gotten past being afraid of how I feel? Why do I still continue to be predisposed to this? People might argue. It's physical. It's genetic possibly, but yeah, you know, is there still something bothering me from my past? It's it's possible. It's possible So I think you can't discount it, but what I would What what did I say in the article learning to identify your triggers and deal with them as an important part of recovery? But only if we're also doing the work that you and I have been talking about yeah Yeah, that's it. You had to be facing the panic and learning to not be afraid of it. So there's no way around that. I Think so you got to do both, you know, you got to learn to not be afraid and then you also have to be Once you've gotten to that point then sure working on It's a tricky it's a tricky one because I mean some people could go back and try and go over whatever it was that Started the the panic and that could help them But it could also be Detrimental because it might actually make them feel worse going back and looking over stuff So I suppose each their own it's the decision that you have to make It is your own choice. Isn't it? It's not a fact of you need to go back and try and deal with it Yeah, it may well make you worse And I think the main message that we have to get out in this particular episode is that it's worth doing the work When you think it's right for you like you said, it's very yeah, there's no blanket answer to this But it's important to understand that digging into your past and looking for skeletons and traumatic events When you're really afraid to go to the supermarket or get in your car. Yeah, yeah, you're going down the wrong road I mean it's all right. So yeah prioritize first You got to be able to get back to the supermarket or the shopping mall or the school recital or whatever And once you've solved that problem and you're not afraid of your own body and mind anymore then By all means start today So it's a tough one because I I I've known many people who spent a lot of time sitting in a therapist's office You know probably making some progress. There's personal growth and things of that nature But but getting so so so frustrated because I don't you know, I'm still panicking I'm still I still can't get in the car and my therapist told me that I'm trying to please everybody Okay, maybe you do That's so it's only possible but that isn't going to help you get in the car. So yeah, so Yeah, I don't know. I mean have you ever considered do we want to go down this sort of a bit of a personal road here? Have we ever considered what our own? You said it's stressful event mine. Yeah, yeah mine was girl trouble basically I had a I had a fallout with her with a girlfriend And she sent two chaps around to my house and they smashed my car With a hammer they smashed a windscreen on my car with a hammer And they were shouting up because I used to live above a shop with my dad Yeah, like in he's Mason that thing and they were smashing the car up And they were shouting me to go downstairs because they wanted to yeah Duff me up with the hammers and it weren't it weren't then that I had the freak out It was a couple of days after and I was home at home on my own with my lad Yeah, but I think my dad was at work doing security or weather and I'd put my son to bed And I was just sitting downstairs playing on the Xbox and just that's when it just happened for me I think it was like a fear of maybe if they come now because at the time that it happened My brother was there had a neighbor around we are playing Tiger Woods goal from the Xbox. Yeah You know, so I had I had a few people there So they were almost dealing with it with me, right? But then when I was at home on my own mice Like I think my son was about five years old or something So I was feeling a bit more vulnerable, I guess sure and that that was when it sort of although nothing happened Right, but that's what my brain decided we're gonna deal with this now And that is a traumatic kind of thing. I mean, yeah, you know, you live the Sopranos, dude You don't have to watch it that it's like a scene from that. Yeah. It was scary. Yeah That's definitely an upsetting thing for sure. I get that so you know, that's good If you take that as like well that was sort of the triggering event I mean, there's there's it'd be very hard to I don't live there now People don't walk the streets we all get hammers around this area. That's good. No, so that's good There was a murder across the road like a month ago. All right, carry on carry on. Yeah, I spoke about it Dear welcome to the UK welcome to the UK. Hey, you know, you see what's going on here right now I Think we could draw if we look at that and say, oh, yeah, then I'll tell my story too But if we look at that story as okay, that was a scary event. It was stressful bubble and it triggered this I mean down the road getting to the point where you have to kind of you know, force yourself to work walk down to the mailbox You can't really draw a connection. It's just not yet It's snowballs so far beyond that to be just being afraid that you will panic if you go to the mailbox That was it. That was the the initial thing was just the what I was so Focused on how I was feeling Not the thought of I've got more people could come that didn't even end in my mind. It was just what's happening to me Right, right, you know, and that's where we escalate then the next time something happened to me Like physically I just went went down that rabbit. Yeah, it makes sense for me the very I feel like I lost my audio No, there we go the very first time that I ever had a panic attack like things could not be going any better Can you hear me? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Things could not be going any better. I was I guess that was my sophomore year at at college It was 1986 which was a long time ago, and I remember I was in the house I grew up in I was home for spring break actually so I was like laying in my my bedroom like the most familiar comfortable safe place in the world and It hit me just like out of the blue I had a perfect grade point average that semester everything was going great and Banned the wheels just fell off on me. So who the hell knows what the root cause of that was And I have spent time with a couple of different therapists over the years one of which was tried to be really helpful But her she kept telling me that you know, it's like a milk bottle the milk bottle was full. You can't put any more milk in it It's overflowing. It's over. You have to ante it and that might be true I'm sure that there's things in my past that probably have to deal with but But it was so ineffective and I think the message really here is when you're finding the root cause you're going down A road with a type of therapy that isn't shown to be terribly effective in Solving the immediate problem. So, you know, I don't know at some point Well, I go back and look at you know, like my parents were divorced divorced when I was in elementary school And I'm sure that that has some impact on me and did that contribute? I don't know maybe but in the end Without ever really uncovering that root cause here. I am so yeah got past all those issues. So I think I Ended this the little section of the article by saying learn not to fear panic into the long run It won't matter what that original root cause was you'll never spend your time worrying about having a panic attack again And and yeah, that's you still may live with some fear or regret or trauma from your past or your childhood But you'll still be able to get in your car and go to work or pick up your kids from school or Be alone or do all those things. So one thing that was interesting that you said about your therapist saying the milk bottle Was for you need to empty it. Yeah My my doctor's advice was to put a lid on the bottle with medication So it's just interesting you go see one person. They'll tell you one thing you go see somebody else and you'll get something completely different Yeah, that that is there is no there's no one-size-fits-all is them No, no, there's definitely not and we all come from different circumstances and you're right And even different professionals that you go to help will approach it different ways And we'll talk about that next week with the different types of therapy But everybody has a different way and I have I had a doctor in my past and you know Maybe maybe as an adjunct to this we will do like a meds one feel really like putting on our flame flame-proof suits, but I Had a doctor at one point who felt the same way He he basically told me you can't think your way out of this and you have a chemical imbalance And if you were diabetic you would take insulin wouldn't you and that was his solution to the problem That went horribly wrong for me, but we'll talk about that one other day Yeah, yeah, so I you know we're only 16 minutes into this which is short for us But I do we have anything else we want to say about this particular topic. I don't think there is I don't think there is I think this is an individual one in it. We're just perhaps offering a bit of advice And I thought I thought some whether it would benefit us like you you're not sure whether it would but for me I don't personally think There would be any value in me like I can still think of what happened and that but it doesn't make me feel Anxious or nothing like that. Mine is is solely based on Yes, the physical effects of a panic attack. I think I Would agree with that assessment in my case too, you know when I say it might be helpful I think sure maybe I'll get something out of laying on a sofa and talking about my mom I guess yeah, yeah, but I have absolutely overcome the anxiety and panic thing without ever Getting to the root cause of the problem. So yes to me It's all a pretty fine need. Yeah, my advice is the best therapist I ever had said hey look if you walk into the emergency room and you're bleeding the first thing we do is stop the bleeding Then then we'll worry about why you're bleeding But the first thing you have to do is stand and in our case the first thing I have to do is stop that bleeding So that's it then worry about why you're bleeding. Mm-hmm. So I think that's it. So next week. We're gonna talk about Therapy and professional help which I think is is a pretty good topic because of the different types of therapy confusion Surrounding which therapists I should go to what type of therapy and what's effective? Why didn't this work for me? We'll talk about that Perhaps look at self help as well. Oh, that's good. We should add some self help in there. Yeah Yeah, without a doubt. So that that's where we are. All right, so I guess we'll wrap this one up as Always how can people find you bill anxiety United calm? Facebook calm slash anxiety night it's Twitter anxiety night It's all anxiety. You know, you just you can find me there Go anywhere same thing for me that anxiety guide calm or YouTube fit that anxiety I just that anxiety on whatever platform And as always we're gonna have to we're supposed to ask people to like the video and subscribe That's it like and subscribe and leave your comments down below because as we keep saying we're gonna look at doing q&a's at The end of this and trying to go through a few of your comments Yeah, without a doubt comment in the video or email. Yeah, whatever. We're near in the end of this article now So we are there's only we have one two. We really have three But really the last one is not even a thing. It was a little yeah. Yeah, we only have two episodes of this left Then let us know let us know as well because we haven't actually mentioned But let us know what you thought of episode seven because me personally I thought that was the the best one so far because it was the most hard hitting the most honest and I Personally even though I'm on it have definitely taken things away from listening to that last week That that's so funny because it's just so everybody knows as we record this We have not released episode seven yet because we did it last week and when we're done when I hit the end button On this one. I'm gonna publish that one. So I haven't watched it all the way through so I'm gonna take your word for it I was a bit of a rant So you haven't seen episode seven go back and watch it on the advice of my my friend Oh, yeah, and I guess that's it. So comments questions send them our way. We'll see you guys next time I guess thanks for stopping by later