 Rita says greetings from Reno, Nevada. I've learned how to say Nevada properly Rita it must be it must be quite late for you there. You're welcome to unmute and pop your video on if you'd like to You're gonna catch me. Well, let me put it this way ready for bed. So don't Welcome welcome what time what time do you have it in Nevada this today? It's one o'clock It's actually one one one in the morning. So I saw this and I thought I'm gonna jump on there I was doing some work and just before I went to bed. I had a look and I thought oh, I'm gonna go have a look And see what they're up to Here I am. Yeah, you didn't you didn't join the the one we had one last month, which was targeted at the America's time zones Yes, but I will I was just laughing because I was like, well, I'll just go I Really didn't expect to be talking to you guys No, the I think the whole the whole idea of this session is that it's a conversation. It's not like a panel or Okay, or anything the idea is, you know that it would be a small session not necessarily this small but Smalls a small session, maybe a dozen or so people and we'd have a conversation They'd be a Q&A and anyone can jump in at any time. It was never intended to be a presentation or a panel I think what's hard right now is everybody is is not sure what to do I what I what had me up late is I was reading through all the updates The six point two and you know, it just you get to the point where you're just like overwhelmed sometimes And I think it's just that with like it's not necessarily an excuse because I I I really I've started Coming on to a lot of the learn were pressed Org You know sessions because they've just come so far. They're so good and you know I'm gonna be kind of biased anyway But I really do like how Jonathan approaches the projects and you know, certainly the topics that are necessary And I you know, it's just it's frustrating I know how you put that much effort in and then nobody shows up because it's like come on guys It is difficult to to keep up and I agree it is difficult to keep up with everything that's going on And also to to be able to create content to keep up with everything's going on. I know for myself I generally Have adopted this approach of waiting until the new release comes out before I even go looking Not because there's there's just too much information but more because of the The iterative approach at which at which the the block editor is being developed oftentimes Things will Will be almost ready But and and the navigation that was removed recently is a good example So it's almost ready, but it's not quite there yet feedback was given and so it's decided to be removed Which I actually prefer Because it means that folks are actually getting feedback Hearing from the community listening to the community and they're saying, okay. No, this is not quite ready yet Let's remove this for the next release so that we can iterate and make it better for the following release So my my habit is to tend to Wait until the release is out wait until the release is stable and then I start diving in and I start looking for things And I think that folks that would be one of my pieces of advice for folks is Is try not to keep up with the iterative approach of 6.2 don't Have an idea of what's coming and what changes to expect like for example 6 to 6.2 There's quite a big overall of the user interface and what it looks like and where things are But sort of stick to the functionality that you do know and let the new functionality come out And be tested a bit more and settle a little bit Before you really start diving into it because that'll make it a bit easier to kind of pick up You know something I I've always had the opinion and this is every single piece of software that I've ever worked with or dealt with Is that I I always wait for that point release I follow this approach with my with my operating systems I used to run a bunch of exclusively before I moved to automatic where my first machine had to be a mac Which is a whole different story But I always wait for the point release of the new operating system to come out. I'm never on bleeding edge You know latest release version because there's always some testing time feedback iteration in between So my suggestion would be let 6.2 get released Let let it get downloaded by everybody Let more people give feedback wait for the point release and then start diving in Because that's what I tend to do And I think that's good Go ahead. Sorry. Sorry. I was just going to welcome show hi to the uh To the meeting dude, please do enable your visit your your video show. Hi. We're a very small group today So the plan is just have a conversation everybody's involved. It's not a paddle. It's not a presentation It's just a conversation. Oh, hi Hi No, I am Sorry, go ahead. Sorry. Just in my my cafe. So something loud, uh, please pressure the body So, where are you joining us from show hi? Yeah, I'm making a promise. I'm probably so and just some and no extension Ucomas extension programming so now and just plan blocks with them well, so I interested in this Event so I joined it. Okay. Very you were very welcome. Where are you joining us from? Japan Japan Yeah, yeah, what time is it there? It's quite late Hi It's quite late there is it In Japan sorry the time now Ah, just right now, uh, 5 p.m. Oh 5 p.m. Oh, that's not so bad So, hi, you you may you may have attended some of the sessions that my colleague ben has has run, uh, Japanese pisan Japanese visa Yeah, do you know ben ben evans? Oh, sorry. I My english is a little poor No problem Have you attended any so one of my colleagues is ben evans? Um Have you attended any of his his japanese workshops? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay That's going to be a no that's that's I think is one of the biggest hurdles everybody's nervous about is seen more more I would like to see a I know this sounds Awful, but it's like a quicker pace with wu commerce and switching to The blocks because it feels like they're really dragging I know they're working really hard at it and there's some I was reading through the docs And some of the new notes and some of the new You know again like uh, the dev notes that we have for for wordpress, um You know, there's certainly some really nice work That's on the boards to to get done But it's like, okay guys, can we can we can we move that along and just attack, you know I I get it's more complex in some ways but it's you know, even just, um I just feel some people ask me like are they are they going to like storefront just the standard Theme, you know, it's we I kind of jump through hoops and loops with that trying to Decide whether to use it and then add the theme jason and you know kind of make it a hybrid versus It's still just a classic theme And again, it's one of those I think for me I run into it all the time is that constant It's a pain point because you you're you're trying to assess a project and you're trying to find the right set of tools and components or plugins or extensions in the case of WooCommerce and then it's like Well, everything else is kind of ahead of the game and now I'm coming back to using storefront And then it's like no, I can't use storefront. I've got to use a block theme and then, you know, it's um Yeah, that's a hunt and pick mechanism at this point It's frustrating because some of the themes are are helpful and some of the themes Are not I mean they while they while they may be compatible with The block editor and um You know in a sense, they may be blocks for root for WordPress. They're not always Seamless with WooCommerce And I think that's that's an area that really needs some tender loving care and some real support I've got to admit. I haven't used WooCommerce in some time I used it a lot when I was freelancing did a lot of development and creating custom plugins for WooCommerce But um since I stopped being freelance and became employed. I haven't and that's three years ago now I actually haven't used WooCommerce at all in that time So I'm a little bit behind the curve when it comes to our developments in WooCommerce. I must admit I think they've done. Oh god. Sorry. Go ahead. No, I just wanted to say I I am glad you've raised this though Because I'm similar to to Michael in that I so I haven't actively developed For a number of years now I I purpose purposefully chose a different path. So I haven't worked on on client projects in a number of years but One of one of my and one of Michael and my colleagues at automatic A chap you might know his name a chap by the name of Jeffrey Pierce He used to be he used to be a theme developer lead at WooCommerce. He's now leading the Dot org The open source theme team Insight of automatic and they generally work on Whatever the next default theme is and I know I know for a fact that that Jeff so Jeff is a fellow South African who moved to the states recently I know that they have they have been working I always say they were working on WooCommerce things, but their sort of focus is how do we What do we prioritize in terms of themes? So I'm going to raise This this uh this comment with Jeff and let him know Can we not record this at all? No, I do think that's no and I don't mean I'm going to raise it and say Rita asks but that's a that's a very valid point because as you're saying it I'm seeing Shohei not not nodding So he sounds like he's in agreement and there are probably more Developers out there who are working with WooCommerce that are struggling with this pain point So my thinking is if we can raise this as a concept with Jeff and maybe he's got Maybe there are some plans there that we don't know of Uh, but maybe it's something that that he can look into because his experience working Working with with you know, Woo themes and he was one of the like Primary developers on storefront for a number of years Um, he took over there was another theme that that ran for a number of years that they didn't got Canvas was I think it was canvas canvas canvas. Thank you He worked on canvas for a number of years before canvas development was stopped So he will I'm sure he will like to hear that that that is a pain point because I think that he will be able to help Make some things happen So I thank you for raising that I will I will definitely send him a message and thank him And I won't mention your name don't worry It'll just be the community Thank you Welcome city pong to the uh to the discussion Do feel free to to enable your video and microphone city pong because uh, there's very few of us And it's this is just a conversation. We're not doing this as a panel or a presentation So do feel free to join in Well while city pong is joining, um Sure. Hey, did you have any specific questions or comments that you wanted to to share today any pain points that you're struggling with Or were you just interested to hear what was going on So doesn't right now I developed now blocks and so this one one month or two months, so And payment and a checkout and the card blocks is very complex sound blocks inside in Nest blocks next nest So and this all I cannot understand I'm still you know other hook and In the block block hook H O O K And blocks blocks hook So It's a difficult to me How to use Broke and hook So How to use blocks with blocks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah PHP PHP I understand but Broke so footprint is a little bit difficult and so language And translates to japanese and is a some wrong It's um I can't Find the Code and a code or something. It's difficult from Hmm. Yeah, so so what let me just confirm that I'm hearing that you're struggling to figure out So you're used to using hooks and you're used to being able to to create Callbacks for hooks so that you can modify things or change things or work with those those data Now you're moving to blocks and obviously you don't have access to those hooks So when things are happening in blocks, you want to be able to work with those hooks And you're and you're finding that The translated content in japanese to teach you that information is just not there and and and Struggling to find information. Am I understanding you correctly? Yeah. Yeah, okay I'm gonna I'm gonna Just reply to that because I'm the one who said do you have any questions that I don't have an answer for you But thank you for raising it because now I can dive in Michael I don't know if you have any any suggestions answers around there. I've I've never tried to work with blocks and hooks Um, but I'm taking lots of notes and as Rita knows I I create content for learn wordpress And ben is one of my colleagues and he speaks japanese so we can definitely have a look at what we can do there But I didn't have any direct answers So you're talking about using php hooks with yeah with blocks not the react hooks No But maybe that's one of the issues that needs to be addressed in the sense of how to I think that is it took me And I'm by no means the wizard but it took me a good Year to really wrap my head around how blocks are being Created and how to create a block and how to customize block and how to nest a block And that's apart from anything that would be the admin side as a you know content creator or then developing And I think that's one thing that would be very helpful as to Um, I've I've played on learn Uh, I played I've done a couple of those and we might want to point those out in a sense of just to help Know how to kind of just go through the steps but thinking about blocks and What you're used to doing prior with templates is not And it's not a seamless transition And I think that that's where people get very confused because they know they have this They've already started thinking the project. They know what they want to do They're used to doing that with templates, but then what happens It's okay now. How do I make that? How do I do that in in blocks? And I think there's a bit of a disconnect there on how to approach and that might be one of those things that I don't I'm just thinking while we were talking Did I know of any resources that I could point to? And you know again everything is mostly in English. So I I apologize for that and I don't speak Japanese I I speak good chinese that's usually taxier nasty words, but that's Yeah, that's you know as you as you observed, you know all the documentation is in english and um There is a polyglot team within the wordpress community whose um remit is to translate documentation and other resources into other languages um, and they do a pretty good job of translating user documentation um I'm not really aware of any kind of uh concerted effort To translate developer documentation at the moment So I think it's you know, that's possibly something that you know that could be addressed you know working on developer documentation in other languages you know because it It kind of does make documentation inaccessible to people who's um You know who don't have any english or even code code examples. I think is the kind of common language over the the the actual language of the country. So if the code could be I'm just I'm trying to this through a bit, you know in a way that would be helpful I don't have I have resources, but again, it's all it's all basically um It's all here in the states. Yeah, so yeah coding languages themselves. I essentially Based on based on english, you know all the keywords, you know like for you know while and Let you know and all that So I think anybody doing any kind of programming has to have at least A modicum of english just to understand the programming language and the structure of the language um But you know so but I don't think we can assume just because they need some basic english to understand A language, you know, whether it's javascript, whether it's, you know, c++ or whatever That they understand enough Enough english, you know to follow more discursive documentation or blog blog posts or tutorials And so on some, you know, perhaps more effort is needed there to uh To translate it into other language, but you know, what is there about 4 000 languages on the planet? So that's a well mean Task mentioning ben again. I know ben has been doing quite a lot of work within learn wordpress to try and get things translated um, I think I think that what also will help and this this gets back to um, michael what you were saying is Unfortunately and and this is even something ironically I speak english first first language But even I struggle with certain programming terms because I speak The queen's english, so whenever I have to type the word color um, a part of me a part of me dies inside when I have to leave out the That's just a personal thing Big British I really But you appreciate that even more Yeah, that having been said I've gotten used to it because that's the language I programming in every day So I do agree that more and this goes back to what Rita was saying more examples of how to do these things So if if we that are part of the developer relations team the learn wordpress team the documentation team If we can make sure that our examples that exist Like in insurers example, how do how do how do I do, you know hooks in a block environment? My so my first question would be and maybe we can discuss this today and maybe we can discuss this offline sometime But I I start I start going to educate a mode that that's my job So I start going well, what is the core problem? What are you trying to do? Because there's many ways that you might want to use hooks in a block You might want to do things while the block is being rendered in the editor Which may or may not be possible or you might just be wanting to use those hooks when your block content is being rendered on the front end Which is then using dynamic blocks or the dynamic option the dynamic rendering option So This is this is the part where I My job as a developer educator is to is to find out what people are struggling with and then try and create the content for that So I would almost go as far as to say that We almost need to be and this is a discussion we've had before um in the training team we've we've been we've been thinking about um creating some kind of forum some kind of communicative platform Where folks like shouhei or rita or whoever that have specific questions, but how do I do x? How do I use x with y? Can can come and ask those questions and then other contributors can respond with their solutions and The support forums is not the best place for that because it's not support Um, and and the make wordpress slack is not the best place for that because it's not developing wordpress So there is there is a definite need a definite Yeah for a learning community Where where when you're getting stuck with something you can come in and say hey folks I am busy with this. I'm busy developing this payment plugin integration block. Whatever I want to be able to do this. How do I go about doing it? um So I I'm gonna I'm making lots of notes today And I'm going to make another note of this one and see if I can raise this conversation again because It's something we have discussed Um, the blockers were what to be used, you know One part of the community is saying we should use something like bb press open source wordpress based etc etc Then another part of the community says well if we do that then we have to set up a new wordpress install and it needs hosting and What if we use You know, one of these these platforms like discord or discourse or one of those things, you know A software service base and then you have the first part of the community saying yes, but we don't control that um, so It's always interesting didn't try to manage those things, but it's starting to as i'm sitting here listening to these conversations It's it's sounding more and more like we need to have these places because then Surely it could for example ask his question and then maybe another japanese contributor who has the answer Could reply with some examples and then maybe they could go There could be a japanese group and they could discuss it there and make so much easier for him And you could have these different places Where interaction is happening and anybody can just join so So I don't have answers today But I have I will make a promise that i'm gonna i'm gonna open this conversation up again And see what we can kick off this year because it sounds like it's there's a definite need for it I think one of the discourse Communities that i'm part of i was just trying to think which one it was they actually have that and they have Channels broken out by language and then they help with translation on Like there may be one or two people who are um I'm gonna use the word monitors, but that's not necessarily the right word, but they're kind of the Ambassadors for that channel. So anybody who is like in the case of a japanese uh request They would be the They would be the first line that would meet or see that there was somebody who was struggling and needed some translation And then help from that point on in a sense of providing the resources or direction of what would be available I'm just pointing at putting a link in the chat to the wordpress stack exchange Which is kind of similar to uh I know it's not a platform that the the wordpress dot org controls But it is a resource similar to what uh Jonathan was talking about Largely for developers to ask questions and so on. I'm not sure to what extent it's multilingual um But anyway the link is there Yeah, the code examples gonna put another link For you because we were talking earlier about having code examples Is everyone aware about of the Gutenberg examples repo? So just adding a link to that as well, which is a good resource for just look, you know If to see how things are built Of course, you know Gutenberg itself go to the Gutenberg repo and see how the core blocks are built But the Gutenberg examples, you know gives you some other Uh examples of uh of blocks that you can go and look and see how they're built And of course crib the code for your own projects Jonathan did you see um I know I saw it on uh twitter where you had kind of reached out or were congratulating some of the cloudfest hackathon Did you see the dang it? The duck's dang it. Yeah That was kind of fun. And I it you know that could actually That could actually be very useful And it could be something to have that kind of conversation with uh Millennia if I'm saying that correct Milana Milana. Yeah, so that might be you know in a sense of just um Having that you're able to translate in the browser In a way that not necessarily, you know quickly it like it gives you a jumping off at least to be able to then I don't know with the code examples because they seem some of those seem to be static in the sense of just Just that but um You know I'm glad you raised this because some Another this is these are all ideas that I've been having but another idea that I had was How could we take our code examples that we have on loan wordpress because a lot of the code examples that I specifically create I'm not examples of codes you will find in the documentation. I try and use I try and get feedback from folks Um about their specific problems that they're having and then try and Find an example like for example. So hey, I I'm going to dive into I would like to connect with you afterwards maybe and find out what you're struggling with with how to use hooks and Sort of example the use cases and then see if we can create some kind of example code around how to do that um, and I would love to have all of that content somehow In a public repository some way that is more easily searchable and I would love to be able to add it to doc stanget for example um so so yeah, I Definitely having those kind of projects Where you can search across the whole of the wordpress ecosystem not just the documentation not just You know the dev notes, but the whole system is is there's a project happening in that regard to create an ai chat Interface that will You know, you'll ask your question in you know, very similar to chat gpt I think it actually uses the chat gpt engine the thing that's being developed um or or Chat a something that yeah, I'm not sure what it uh I'm not sure about the internal implementations. I'm not directly involved, but um, it will You know present an interface where you ask a question in natural language and it will then search across the The developer documentation, I guess the user documentation um And then things like the learn platform and other resources to try and find the answer, you know, so it's got a A broader base of uh of content to pull from in order to answer questions, you know using an ai engine Have you really cool? Yeah. Yeah, there's a prototype already um Yeah, I'm not sure if I can find it straight away Um, but there is a prototype already, but it's it's in the the project in its early stages So is it a site that you go to or would that be something you would install? No, it would just be a site a site you go to just like using chat gpt You visit visit the site um Let me see if I can find Let me see if I can find the um while you're doing that. Um, I just want to recognize Citibong and Dinesh that they Citibong joined earlier Dinesh. They joined recently. We're chatting about Something that the so I mentioned about integrating blocks with php hooks and all that kind of thing um So hey, just one last question around that because I'm sort of trying to think of I don't have answers for you and I hate the fact that I don't have something to give you to go away to maybe read Or or see if you can solve the problem, but can you think of A an example of where you were struggling to think about so is there a Let me let me rephrase that is there a specific problem that you're dealing with Were you just wondering how blocks would work with hooks? Maybe give give some more feedback there And we can see maybe we can come up with something that I can give you to to go and read or learn or just or discover Oh just So, um, that's uh, that's uh, uncommerce is a very complicated and blocks and rise blocks and hydro blocks so are many blocks so Make a nice inbox to so um It's a I can make a simple uh blocks. So for example, uh, uh, what place Not it will be create Like a simple course. So Some I want to know the step by step example, I want to if exist Documentation, uh, it's Helpful for me So which is so what I'm hearing is you you can make simple blocks, but you're struggling with more Complicated blocks. Yeah more functionality. Okay. Okay. Um, so I will I will say two things Number one. Yes, the the simple block examples and documentation is is fairly straightforward and easy to figure out Um the how do I do the more more complicated stuff? Um, yeah, it's not there yet um I do know that that for example The the work that michael and I do Um, and I'll speak for myself Personally, I am right now. I'm focusing on how do I create that simple content because that content doesn't even exist um Once I have cleared the simple examples of how things work, then I can start looking at the more advanced things um so Unfortunately at this point in time It is going to be a situation where you are kind of on your own Uh, you're going to need to to play with things figure things out. Um I I think that So here here is a piece of advice that I will give anybody building blocks Or wanting to build blocks And this ties back to what you were saying about, you know, php hooks and wordpress blocks and that kind of thing um Because because blocks are javascript Uh, which means they need to render in the browser um And this this ties back to what rita was saying One almost needs to Try not to think about them in terms of how things used to work um And my my suggestion would be to to focus on So there's a concept. Um, there's a concept in in block development where you can You can have a a dynamic block. So what that means is your block I'm trying to find here we go. Here's the documentation. I'm going to share this with you. Um I don't know if there's a if there's a translated version of this. I apologize I might work in the in the in the browser. It might work in the browser. Yeah, the browser might might automatically find that, you know, the translated version But a dynamic block is essentially where the the block only works in the editor And then the the rendering on the front end is all php So you register a call back and then everything happens there Um, and there is a there is a block that I developed when I first started developing blocks One of the first blocks that I developed was using this dynamic feature So the block only exists as a block in the editor and it's and it's literally just displaying what it looks like um And then all the rendering happens on the php side and that that that for me was just an easier way to build advanced functionality using php using hooks using everything that I already know and i'm comfortable with Um, and I kept the blocks very simple. Um, and doing that helped me get used to the block paradigm and how blocks work without focusing too much on the on the on the in-depth functionality And I could just stick with php and my usual Query objects and my hooks and all those kind of things for the front end So that would be if you haven't discovered dynamic blocks, I would recommend reading into that and how that works um And then and then get used to keep keep building keep building those simple blocks for yourself um, so that you learn the paradigms um, and then The last piece of advice I would have and and michael, I hope you don't mind I'm going to speak a little bit on your behalf here, but reach out to folks like myself and michael who are hosting these sessions If you get stuck with things Absolutely and say yeah, and and this is something I say all my learn WordPress workshops um One of the biggest areas that I learned when I was developing blocks was there was a there was a contributor I'm not going to mention his name because I don't want everybody to bombard him But there was a contributor to a contributor that I got to know um, I think it was at a word camp And when I started developing blocks, I just kept sending him private messages in the making WordPress like and I said Hey, how do I do this? How do I do that? And so I want to take his his kindness He answered all my questions and and he's also he's a he's a core contributor on on Gutenberg And he took the time out to answer my questions I want to pay that forward And say that if you're stuck with something if you want to figure something out Feel free to reach out to me um reach out to michael Absolutely if we if we don't know the answers We'll put you in touch with the folks who can find the answers If you're if you're struggling with with translating your japanese thoughts into english reach out to ben And and get him to reach out to me ben and I work together So he'll be able to to converse with you in japanese We've actually had that we had a Somebody who joined one of his meetups who had a specific question ben pinged me He and I went back and forth and then ben was able to reply with some information It was about using short int or something. I can't remember But those of us I would I would again speak on other people's behalf, but I'm going to mention for myself I I am privileged that I am sponsored to work on the wordpress project full-time. So use me reach out ask me questions If you're stuck with something I'll either find out. I'll either have the answer while I'll be able to find it out for you Um, and then let's help let's help you figure out these things and then maybe Once you figured it out we can convince you to write the documentation in japanese Yeah for the rest of your community So so users Yeah, the thing think about wordpress is it is it is a community? We're a community. No, you know, none of us need to be working alone And it's something that took me a while to learn, you know, I was kind of struggling in the beginning Figuring stuff out using documentation googling stuff and then, you know, um I guess it takes took me a while and then, you know, just to realize how friendly and open the community is You can just ask a question, you know in the wordpress slack. Just talk to somebody at a word camp Um, you know, so somebody you once met at a meet-up Um, there's a couple of people that I help on a regular basis, you know, one of them is local and he's always phoning me up Uh, you know, because he's stuck on something um And the great thing about the wordpress community is everyone's so willing to help You know, so Use use the community as a resource, you know, um But then, you know, a community is always a two-way thing, you know, give back to the community as well You know contribute something contribute code contribute documentation Uh, you know in whatever way you can contribute even if it's um, you know, There's you know, if you go to make dot wordpress.org there are all the teams are listed there. There's so many ways to contribute Um, you know, you can contribute as a community member organizing word camps and meet-ups Contribute to documentation contribute the code to core reviewing plugins and themes for the repository So, yeah, you know, so it's a community, you know, everyone's everyone's involved everyone's willing to help And the biggest thing is that you're willing to learn, you know, that the you have to just I think I Have it what I have experienced is Where people are stuck in This is what they've always done and that's the only way they're going to do it and You can't you can't like there's no conversation that you can have That gets them to that space and I think sometimes that has to be That has to come from you. So if as long as you're willing to be vulnerable not Be good at English but still try until we can get better at Japanese and then we can start building these bridges Because I would love to learn Japanese. I tell you that But I you know, that's that's the thing is right there You meet people who just are the same mindset that are like, let's do this We've just got to figure out even if it's through sign language and whiteboards. We'll get there And I think that's that's the thing is just keep keep an open mind and keep learning just keep asking But one of the other teams in uh in make wordpress is the polyglots team So that's another area that people can get involved, you know, especially if you're um A speaker of a language other than English in helping to translate um, you know, so in the case of um of yourself so high Taking the documentation or other resources, you know, learn resources that Jonathan develops and um translate them to you, you know, to your language for people in your Uh Country. Yeah. Yeah our community. Yeah Is it so that's a whole other way that people can contribute if they're speakers of of um of other languages as in English Is translating the English resources and admittedly they are primarily developed in English You know for better or worse English is the de facto language of the web and the the computer industry um And and translate those, you know to your language That's a great way, you know for for people to make a contribution that's really going to have an impact uh because Uh, you know, you may speak English and Japanese, uh, but there might be people who Speak Japanese, but don't speak English and would really value A translation of a one of Jonathan's courses or some of the documentation into Japanese I would mention that we are preaching a little bit to the choir here because I noticed that shouhei is already a translation editor I really can't organize us Okay, I had to take out shouhei's profile. That's the beauty of the profile system. Yeah Okay apologies and and thank you for your contribution for contributing in that way. It's extremely valuable Let me just encourage once again Dinesh and city pong to uh to unmute and bring their cameras up We're a very small group here When it's a conversation. We're not a panel when it's not a presentation to please join in the conversation So let us know if you have any questions if you're feeling a little shy post your questions in the chat And we can answer there Because I saw it is meeting layer when they're driving So Yeah, no, please concentrate on your driving So the other the other piece of advice that I would give to folks who are who are building blocks um, and this was something that I did When I was learning to build blocks is try and find um plugins That exist that have the functionality that you're ready That maybe you want to learn or is close to what you want to learn To the best of my knowledge and I I'm not I'm not a hundred percent sure of this I'm not going to say it as fact but to the best of my knowledge The majority at least of the WooCommerce extensions that are available Um on WooCommerce.com should should be open source So you should be able to if you purchase it Inspect the code and then extend it from there Many of them might already have public repositories that you can go and dig into That's how I learned to so so there's a there's a developer blog post that I posted About converting short codes to blocks While I'm talking I'm going to go see if I can find it but Um When I when I was first building, you know, this advanced custom functionality that we're talking about um I was building something that needed to uh Connect to the WordPress REST API for a custom post type Um, and it needed to get some data And do a few other things Um, and it needed to update certain things So it was sort of more advanced than what I was used to And there was a there was another plugin out there that actually Did that for me. Well, not did it for me. It did a similar thing um With slightly different functionality So I just got hold of that plugin and I just installed it on my site and I just Literally went through and pulled and pushed and broke And took some example code and refactored for my own purposes Um, so that's another great way to learn how to do more advanced functionality when you're building blocks is Is find other plugins. Ideally, they're on the on the dot org repository Uh, or it's plugins that you're able to purchase or get copies of And inspect what they're doing and and also reach out to those developers those plugin developers If that's a joy of open source Yes, yeah And then ask them and say how did you implement this specific problem that I'm also struggling with? um Another way a third option is to hire a developer Uh and get them to build what you need and then and then and then learn from that process I've had customers when I was still freelancing I had one customer who hired me to build something for them And then they wanted me to step through with them How it worked and explained to them so there was kind of like a teaching So I actually at the time was was prepared to Sort of because there was something that I had to learn to develop it for them So I gave them a slight discount and I said well because I have to go and learn this thing I am increasing my knowledge So I will give you a discount and then we'll sort of learn together. So that's even a third option um Because yes, it is It is very difficult to learn the brand new technology when when it hasn't fully been documented. I respect that Um, and and so those are the those are the things that I did um, you know looking at other plugins that are doing similar things Being able to reach out to specific people um, those are the areas that I was able to and If you I don't know if you've if you've seen the the WordPress developer blog um I I'll find a link. It's been in beta for a while. It's just been officially launched last week. That's right I would I would even I would even say those people writing those blog posts. You'll see a you'll see a few names there that you might recognize Those are also good people to reach out. There's ryan welcher. There's there's rich table. There's um Michael, what's your other teammate's name? Um Justin Justin tadlock Reach out to those folks and say I'm struggling with something. Yeah, how would you you've got a you've got a couple of posts I've got a yeah I've got a post there So so those of us who are writing on the core dev blog we're already in that mindset of wanting to help So so pick somebody there and say hey, this is what I'm struggling with. How can you help me? Um, yeah Yeah, and of course the conversation can happen there on the developer blog as well in the comments threads on each post But yeah, as jonathan says you can always reach out to people in dms Doing things pop you because of the you know WordPress is open source WordPress is a community It's always better to do things in in the public sphere, you know in on the making WordPress slack or wherever but sometimes You know, I get it, you know, um And I I suffer from this myself. You don't necessarily always want to expose your ignorance So reaching out in a dm to somebody is is also fine I I still do that I sometimes reach out in a dm because I just don't want to like put in a public space that I don't know this And also the advantage of a dm especially if you if you english is not your first languages You can go and use like a translation service Translate it to english send it to the person and they take their time. So that's the other advantage. Yeah There's I think that's all of those things that I'm just listening I've been thinking about this for language because jonathan had Made a comment in twitter one time and they were talking about he was complaining about He's brought up the word color and I had Replied in a sense that one of the things I find is Because I came to WordPress encoding outside of what You know, I was in design and marketing and all of that and I was frustrated With the fact that I couldn't build what I wanted or what I could design. I wanted to now build so I came from that and the the thing that I learned from all of this Is that there are there are words? We use words that have a certain commonality to them But have very different meaning in in certain environments And code is one of those places where you might you know, I love reading the comments that developers put in Their code. I'm one of those kind of geeky people that read the code And you know, I before I ever touch anything I read the code and then I read The comments because I always find some nugget that is It's it's worth it's it's worth its weight and goal because I'm not hunting for things that I you know Like why is that not working, you know, and you know, you just keep going through it and I think that um, yeah, there are some words that we use Uh That really do trip you up because how you how what how you use it in colloquial language And then how you use it in technology may not be the same And it can be all in the same language. I mean and then I'm sure it's even harder when you're having to translate it So if Gutenberg had existed when You started to learn to code you coming from a design background Yeah, so if Gutenberg existed and you could translate your design straight into uh You know using a visual editor like Gutenberg without having to learn to code. Would you have ever learned to code? Do you think? I think I would just because I I have I'm um I like that part of I just found like it came easy in the way of My interest is just always Consuming and it's always going more and more towards the code I think the editor is is going to be one of those like I play with fake math still and I do some things with that and I watch like I think I think we all come from that where we're used to dealing with clients and we're having to We're we're assessing their um Their abilities to you know, like our do they get what we designed? You know or is it is it's that ux that how fluid is that interaction and then um Yeah, I think I think we I think today people that I come in contact with her Picking up WordPress for the first time I'm just like this is going to be a joy because I'm picking up I have a better sense of the person who Who wants to get in under the hood and understand how and why things are connected? Versus the person who just wants to build a page or a website because they need to get it out and it's it's got a very specific um, you know Objective that they have to meet and they're not really interested. They don't care like and that may sound um It doesn't sound nice to say but it's a fact They've got a hundred other things on their lists for work or whatever it is that they're doing So they're not really worried about they just want it to work And they want it to work now not in five minutes and not with an explanation. They wanted to work now And um, then they're happy then it's like this is the best thing And when I've heard complaints it's like well, I can do this with wix and I'm like Yeah, I know but you can also do that with with WordPress. There there are things I use the I use the example of a home and I'm like you can enter your house A physical space by multiple places So you can crawl through a window or you can walk through a door That's entirely up to you now you might have several doors The question is what becomes the front door? You make that choice you design that choice And I think that Yeah, it just I think WordPress is is still a little bit in transition But I think I'm totally on board with Gutenberg and I'm totally on board with going the block Way, but I also understand where it's hard for some people Especially if they've built a career around this they've been doing it for a while. It's the change is Is Is not the change is is uncomfortable. Yeah, there's a lot of nervousness Yeah, absolutely. Then that was part of the reasoning behind holding these sessions was to help And admittedly we haven't really touched on the subject that this was meant to be about migrating a plugin to blocks But it's still been an interesting conversation. But the point of these sessions was To do this kind of outreach to give people this this opportunity to talk about The struggles they're having in making this transition from the php world to the javascript react Gutenberg block Based world and we will be holding more of these. We're coming up to the hour So, um, if you'll permit me, I'll just do a little bit of wrapping up um, I just um My notes say to talk about word camps. There are some word camps coming up. There's not there's not too Many of us. There's some some in some in europe. There's a couple in asia. Um, I see we've got it there's one in them silhet bangladesh and Iolio in the philippines Some in africa. I don't think we've got anybody joining us from africa today um You can visit central dot word camp dot org for a full list of upcoming Word camps, of course, there's the flagship events word camp europe is happening in in athens in june and then there's um word camp uh us Earlier this year it's happening in august. I think it's normally in october I'm not sure where is i'm not sure where word camp us is happening. Oh, it's somewhere in washington near washington dc. I think it is this year I I thought it was west coast There may be wrong. Let me see it was san diego last year. I thought it was that's right. So it could be dc Yeah, I think it's somewhere near dc This year, but yeah, I'll say central dot word camp dot org is uh, is your go-to place to find out about upcoming word camps um maryland maryland that's near dc. Yes. Yeah So show show hi. Yeah, have you got any word camps planned for japan since the have you had any since the pandemic finished or Yeah, yeah, but and then this year is in um october and october Yeah, awesome Are you going to do a presentation on blocks and converting from classic to Gutenberg right? Yeah Don't worry. I'm right there with you. So we'll do this together Okay, one of the other things happening, uh starting this week is um myself and my colleague have been working on some documentation issues in the Gutenberg repository trying, you know, there's about Actually, I can't remember how many there's quite a lot of open documentation issues Which relate to the handbook. We are we've been doing this sort of um internally But we're opening this up to the community this thursday We're going to be starting block editor handbook scrub sessions to sort of clear up the issue. So if you want to help out with uh updating the hand the block editor handbook Please join us. I think that's going to be one Oh, i'm not sure the uh, we just changed the clocks here in the uk And it's just thrown everything out for me. It's going to either be one pm or two pm utc on Thursday um But there will be an announcement There's going to be an announcement post in make and we'll announce it in the making word in the core editor Channel in making wordpress. So that'll be kicking off this thursday and we'll be doing those weekly For the foreseeable future until we've cleared all the issues. So they could be running for a while um I think that's anybody else got anything else any other announcements community based or Anything upcoming? May 20 27th Is the celebration 20 year celebration? Of course. Yes. I'm not sure if there's a central resource anywhere to find out What's going on? Do you know look you can go to I think it's wordpress I found under wordpress.org news There should be something there. I just and you can download some logos and stuff. They're they're starting to Oh, I want to say it's it may be even wp tavern said put some stuff in on their last or this week's This past weekend their their their posts that they send out Let me see here So it's going to be wordpress. I'll I'll put it in the um In the chat sure Yeah, good call. I left that out of my notes. I didn't uh Not something that uh that occurred to me Um, so yeah, I think it's the 20th anniversary of wordpress. There will be stuff happening I think it's just we're all cut. I mean we're catching up on it because they had put it on hold for a while They were waiting and they have some swag. So on the home page. They tell you but it's not linking um Where is this? Oh, there we go. So you can go to the ah got it. Okay So, where are you guys? There you go. I'll put it in slack. You can all see Amazing. There you go Um, yeah, so we're gonna come up to the end. So let me just remind you that We've got quite a few useful links in the chat. So This is a good opportunity to save the chat If um below the chat Sorry, I could make a suggestion there. Um, maybe we could Michael maybe after this you can grab those links and post them in the comments of the Meetup Sure, excellent. I'll I'll save the chat myself. If everybody who was here and anybody who couldn't make it or yeah I'll show you the recording later. Yeah, but Michael you're gonna have to do some scrubbing. I mean Honestly right now Do not do not put me in the middle of this Don't worry Jonathan, let me tell you something. If you don't there's gonna be a payback I know there is. Oh no, don't worry. We'll sort it out. We'll sort it out All right, I'm not sure I've got the video editing capabilities to go bleeping things out. That's where I come in. That's where I come in. Don't worry All right, well listen Michael, I'll try and definitely uh Jump jump in on thursday. I'll do my best and if nothing else if not this week then definitely the following week Yeah, yeah, like I said, there'll be an announcement post on that um Yeah, so it remains to thank everyone for attending to thank jonathan for co-hosting And let me just mention that jonathan has just released a new course Was it on friday? You launched it on friday? Yeah um On uh on the very topic that we were meant to discuss and which we largely deviated from on on um migrating a Shortcode into a block um So everything we didn't talk about today is in jonathan's new course um, let me let me put a link to that as well in the chat um That's in the learn That's on the learn platform. So you can go and look at that And now that i've added something else i'll need to like save the chat again You know that thinking about that just let me say this shoshan you could look at there's a course there that jonathan you did maybe you did it I don't know. I forget now, but I had it's the data Actually how the data is passed through a block But i don't I think I did that one and it's it's actually helpful because that Really had no documentation and you have to actually do this So it might help you Start to think this through a little different. Yeah, let me put a link to that for you bear with me just a second With dynamic blocks and static blocks that uh beginner that beginner Yes called using the word press data layer Yes, and that was very helpful. Let me post a link to that for you And and michael while you're there maybe maybe also post the link to your course because There's some interesting topics in your yeah, my course is more beginner focused for people just starting out with block development Hey And then again like if you have if you have ideas for courses like You know advanced topics send them our way because then we can create them Oh, we're gonna say we'll get you to write them. Yeah. Yeah I don't I don't know what people don't know until they send me And say this is what I don't know. How would I do this and then I can either create a workshop on it If it's a small topic or if it's a big topic I can do a course So please send me your ideas. Yeah, we're sponsored contributors. We work full time on this So, you know anything that you think is missing and this is one of the prime reasons for holding these sessions to find out What do you guys in the community need? You know, what can we do to help you? You know, what resources do you want? What courses? What training? What's missing in the documentation? So Reach out to us either publicly and making wordpress or privately in a dm We're happy either way and let us know what you want. You know, we work full time on this We've we um, we have the time and resources to to develop these things You may not get it instantly, but you'll get it But no, I will definitely reach out and say hi even when I'm stuck just to no, please I mean there are moments when it's like, okay guys, I'm losing my mind. Somebody tell me I'm not nuts Anyway, thank you both and this was fun. I'll have to do this another time Yeah, we'll we'll schedule as I said, well, this is the last in the initial run of these But we will be scheduling some more very soon. So keep a lookout in the same place on meetup.com um in the about What's it called the A meetup Yeah, it's meetup, but the learn word WordPress online workshops channel whatever In in meetup and we'll be posting the next run of these there So, thank you all very much. Thank you Jonathan for co-hosting. Thank you. Um And yeah, maybe see you in In the developer and the documentation Uh scrub thing on thursday or A future you'll see me one way or the other. I'm always somewhere in there either slack or Or looking at reading documentation. Yeah, so I'm your reader. All right guys look forward to catching up with you then Okay, okay. Bye. Bye. Bye everyone. Thank you. Bye. See you