 I could try to find the perfect love, but there's no one I'd rather be here right where you are. Never this, never far. How could I be close to you? Because in your presence there is peace, an everlasting kind of peace. Where else could I run to then to say? Because if one falls down, the other can help them pick them up. That's true with our relationship with God. And you were joining us on this Friday. I am here with Matt and Angela. And we just heard you moments ago leading us into a time of worship, which was so beautiful. Yeah, thanks so much. Yeah, I'm just thinking about today's episode. And that song is all about just a relationship with the love of God. You know, and so talking about being an episode, Angela, what you're going to explain here in a minute about relationships. You know, ultimately we just need the relationship with God first and foremost. Absolutely. Relationship with the father is our primary concern. And there's no question that relationships with others and knowing how to navigate them are a large part of our life. One of the most significant relationships in our life, our marriages, can also be one of the most frustrating. How many times have you wondered of your spouse? Why doesn't he see things like I do? Today, founder of Reflections Counseling Center and host of the popular podcast, Marriage and Enneagram, Krista Harden is going to help us bridge the gap in our understanding of our spouses and how we ourselves show up in our most intimate relationship, marriage. I say, bring on the frustration reduction. Today's show, I am so excited to talk with Krista and understanding how my personality and my husbands may be different, but that we're created to shine together. Yeah. I love that so much as we're created to shine together and it's just like coming together as one and coming against all the tactics and the scheme of the enemy that is trying to come against covenants. And speaking of coming together this weekend, we just want to let you know that there is a gathering, a call for prayer for what's going on in Israel, just to stand a prayer. So it's this weekend through November 17th through 19th. So the Jewish and Christian communities are coming together. Churches are banding together. So we just wanted to let you know of that. And here at Cornerstone, our hearts are standing for Israel. You know, the situation that's going on right now, there's a ground offensive that's going on in Gaza. There's more than 240 hostages that we're just praying for the release of them. And also we want to share with you too here at Cornerstone Intelligence Network, which produces hope today is that because of your giving, you know, your support, we have been, you know, dedicated to giving 10% of our ties to help Jewish ministries like Larry Hux ministry. There's Eagle Wings, also Jeff Zito. We've been reaching out to others. And also we want to just say a shout out to the Jewish Federation of Greater Pittsburgh that is here in our area. And we just encourage you to support local ministries, local nonprofits and charities that are really helping what's going on in Israel because, you know, truly right now, Matt, I know all eyes are on that situation, but it's a beautiful thing when we're able to link arms, join together, band together with our brothers and sisters. Absolutely. Joining together. This is a big thing. Okay, this is fine. I got to admit something. God works in the funniest ways. Me and my wife were just getting into those intense conversation the other day about our differences. And I'm like, okay, we are so different. We got to find some common ground right now, you know, so I'm seriously, I'm super excited about today. And hopefully, well, I should say hopefully, I know I'm probably going to gain a lot, but I think that's the fun thing about marriage, right? Or the differences, but her and I have strong personalities, you know, so we butt heads kind of quite a bit. So Angela, I mean, hopefully you asked the right questions here today because I need some help right now. It's so true. Like God has made each and every one of us unique, but celebrating those differences instead of getting frustrated by them can be quite challenging, especially within our marriages. Podcast host, counseling center, founder and author of the Enneagram in Marriage. Christa Hardin joins us today with some great insight and knowledge to help us better see and understand ourselves as well as our spouses and how we can shine brighter together. Christa, welcome to hope today. Thank you guys so much for having me, Matt, we've got you covered. Well, Christa, let's not waste any time. Let's hop right into the heart of what you're talking about and your beautiful book that you just created and that people can grab a hold of. How did you come to the realization and connect the personality differences with relationship and how they intermingle? Oh, that's such a great question. Thank you, Angela. I really started noticing this in my work with couples about eight years back. So I've been doing this work for about two decades and about eight years back, somebody gave me the Enneagram personality inventory and it was just one of many. I'd been using assessments for years, but they had been bogging me down because they were so laborious and then they offered me this sort of sleek, elegant, quick test that's only got nine types and I did give it just this quick look and my good friend, a therapist from Wheaton College, she said, you might want to give this a deeper dive. There's a lot here to unpack for couples. I'm so glad she did because I haven't looked back, Angela. It is just so good of a tool and then my husband, Wes, and I started using it as did my couples and it just got us the deeper layers of understanding our differences. I love that you mentioned use a variety of marriage tools and this being one of them. Could you explain to our listeners a little bit more about what exactly the Enneagram is? Absolutely. So it's like we said, one of many tools, but instead of just being general marriage info, which there's sort of several really big marriage researchers out there that we love to use and incorporate as well as, for me, as a Christian, my faith. But the Enneagram nuances the gifts and in 1 Corinthians 12, we hear about how we all have varied gifts and what I love about the Enneagram is we get to name those gifts and notice them about us and our spouses and say, oh, wow, you have the gift of joy or you have the gift of peace and really celebrate those in one another. So it's a great inventory for that and Enneagram just means nine and so it's nine types. And it means nine varieties of humans and of course we all have even more nuance than that. Throughout your book, you talk about the many layers and how even cultures and upbringing and trauma can inform how we relate with the world around us. But could you help us to unpack and understand how better knowing about our Enneagram or our tendencies, our personality traits can help us to better support our partners in marriage? Yes, I can because when we're at our best in each of our personality types, we're using those gifts I mentioned just we're thriving together. We're like, oh, wow, I can't believe you're such a giver and I'm over here, such a researcher. But when we have trauma as an overlay or differing cultures, we can also, if our window of tolerance is down and we're like not sleeping well, not eating well, not getting fitness, we start to go down the lower levels of our type exuding the virtues together and the gifts. We start showing up with the vices or sins or passions, and that can just be such a rub together. It's really awkward. It's not the pretty dance anymore and we get caught and lost in cycles. So when couples come in for counseling, what a lot of people don't know is sometimes they only come for one session. You have so much to unpack in one session. So to have this awareness of what's your gift and what's your main core struggle, although, like I said, we have nuance, it just gets us moving a lot faster and we can start lifting up and giving hope. Would you mind taking just a minute or two to break down just one of the types so that our viewers can understand what this actually looks like? They may have a number in mind, oh yes, somebody said I was a seven, but can you help them to understand what that exactly means and looks like? I would love to. I'm going to use the type nine peacemaker because I think that there's a lot of nines out there in the research I've seen and so the type nine at their best, they're such a great diplomat. They're able to use their God-given power. We're not given a spirit of fear but of power and truly hear every voice at the table and help people to make agreements. But unfortunately, sometimes people don't hear the nine because they're so thoughtful and considerate and they can get walked over. And so this type at their worst can become slothful and feel like I don't matter, nobody ever listens to me. Forget about diplomacy, it's all about comfort. I'm just going to lay back and do my own thing and we really miss out on the gifts in marriage or in the world of that nine. So I love to help when I'm with a nine for their spouse to give them a platform to be heard in the world and I love for that nine to bring that peace and thoughtfulness to their spouse. I love how you break down the different types, personality types or the numbers and even when you just shared that example of the nine there are these strengths and what you call shadows in each of the types. Could you explain to us a little bit more about how those shadows of our spouse can actually influence us in our own personality? Yeah, and that is so fascinating about marriage because we rub off on each other, right? So if we had that for example, nine spouse over time you're going to have a lot more peace in your life. You just are. That's a gift your spouse brings to you. You're going to be like, ah, when you rub my back it's just so soothing. But sometimes if your nine is very sarcastic and has not felt heard and has not learned to use their power then you might together bring that shadow and say, forget it, we're not even going to share anymore in the world. Nobody ever hears us, nobody ever cares and so they can negatively influence you and now you guys are just watching TV every day all day. You know, I love this conversation, Chris. So I just have a question. So we're talking about the nine as the peacemaker. What is the one on the opposite end of the spectrum and how did those shadows disrupt sometimes the functionality of a union? I love that. You're like, okay, tell us about somebody else. The type one is often, I call them the improver because we cannot live in a world without any of these types. God was so intentional when he made each of us for the common good it says in 1 Corinthians 12. And so these gifts are great. The type one gift improves, but they're looking and scanning for what's wrong all the time. And that's their gift. And my husband, Wes, is medical and he's a one and he does a beautiful job of finding disease and he can save lives with that gift. But what can be hard about the one is they can bring that shadow of finding fault in everything. And so it's been so powerful to do our enneagram work together so that he can use that gift for God's glory and also understand that we are also, you know, God uses our weakness. So it's okay that we're not perfect. From the nine to the one, have you found, Christa, that there are any numbers that you're like, don't get married. It ain't gonna work. I love his question. I have not seen that. The joy of it is that when we're healthy and we're using our gifts, I love to see the ways that we blend, that we merge and we share the gifts and we're also unique. And one fact that a lot of people don't know about marriage is that the healthiest couples, the marriage masters we call them, actually really know how to expedite their gifts, use them together, and narrate an inner script that says, this is our unique gift together. So we're this eight, nine couple. This is our power together. They're this three, five. And so every pairing has the gifts. But like we said, every pairing can bring each other their shadows too. And we can bring those shadows to our world and our kids. So we want to bring out generational peace. We want to break generational toxicity and using our gifts together does that and we get to share our life for Christ together. So someone who's watching today and they're like, I have no idea what you're talking about with this enneagram. No idea what you're talking about these numbers. I'm just out here. Maybe I'm not even on the scale. Could you give us one or two practical tips to help reduce the frustration we often face over and over again, the same frustration within our marriages? Yes, I think that's a great question because you don't have to do any enneagram work in order to be a great spouse. Just notice your spouse's gifts and call them out more frequently. The healthiest couples do this in a ratio of 20 positives to one negative in the daily interactions. And that's a lot, but that's great if you can just start managing that. And even when you're in conflict, healthy couples do this in a ratio of five to one. So you're allowing yourself to say, oh, I love the way you are so good at exploring what's wrong because you helped us in this way to find this missing piece in our finances. I love the way that you showed up for our kids in this way to help their work to be better. And then you might even just say, I'm so curious about that. And then just one small complaint is allowed and okay. So what we don't want couples to do is not share their hearts. We do want you to be able to share your truest feelings together. Just make sure you are surrounding that with a lot of love. Chris, if you could just go a little bit deeper into that because you were saying like managing that, because how does that look like if somebody's like, you know what, I am at an absolute standstill? Like I'm even thinking of Matt, right? Like when he was just saying, everybody's his wife. Matt this absolute standstill or just something, how do you begin to look and say, okay, this is a gift that I see. What are some things that we can do? And then how to really practically implement them? I think that it's our brains are sort of negatively wired to look out for, you know, corruption and issues just as humans surviving. So we have to like look on the sidewalk out of us to make sure we don't fall. So it's an intentional act of putting Christ on in Philippians 4-8 and thinking about things that are good and really speaking those out in your marriage because the narrative we tell is what we believe. And so when we speak out good things about our spouse, we're much more likely to enjoy them. And it's so beautiful to see their gifts enlivened. I've noticed with so many couples over two decades that let's say that they start doing a behavior that you like but it wasn't done perfectly. Just encourage that behavior because you're going to shape it. For instance, if they shut the cupboard door halfway but you had hoped they would shut it fully and they usually don't shut it at all. Think them like, oh my gosh, thank you. I saw you try to do that. That was awesome. And you guys can be playful about that. And that will just bring them more and more trying. Whereas if we're like, I asked you to shut that cupboard door. They're like, forget it. Not even going to try next time. Sticking with that same theme, I know that your book focuses on the enneagram in marriage. But would you help us? We're about to enter the holiday seasons. And I know some of us can get real overwhelmed and stressed out with all the personality types. Could you help us to stay in a place of peace? What is something a tip focusing on that good but beyond that that could keep us around that Thanksgiving table in a peaceful, thankful state? That is the best question. And I think that Matt's song earlier really brought our hearts to the right place because when we give our allegiance to God first and we remember he's the true bridegroom of all of us because let's face it, we all still do have those weaknesses and shadows that come sometimes. It's so important that we don't give up on that quiet time with God, that we just allow ourselves to get on our knees and say, Lord, fill me up, refresh me and get into the word. I also want to remind people that our relationship window of tolerance, of stress is so much lower when we don't get three things in that sleep, fitness and nutrition. And these holidays are exactly when we think we can skimp on that, but we need it most then. So let's, for example, you're in the car with your kids and they're loud when you're not, you know, sleeping well, when you are eating poorly and you haven't had any kind of energetic exercise, you're going to snap so much harder at them. Your spouse is then going to snap at you. So it's the cycle. And if you just take care of yourself and allow the Lord's refreshment in your life and to have a bit of margin, you're going to fly so beautifully through these holidays. Also, I would just add a little date night as well. Don't give up on a little time just for the two of you. Krista, thank you so much for being a guest today and thank you for your amazing book that will be a tool in many marriages. Thank you so much. Don't You Leave Us will be right back for a time of personal ministry just for you. In this month of Thanksgiving, we're excited to send you the special Daily Gratitude Journal with your best gift. This easy to use journal will encourage you to bookend each day with short personal reflections that bring insight and intentionality to your busy and always-changing life. How can six simple questions help you better navigate life's uncertainty? Best-selling author Tish Oxenwriter invites you to lean into the rhythms that each morning and evening offers with a twice-daily thought exercise focusing on gratitude, truth, grace, and more. As you reflect on three key questions near the beginning and end of your day, you will be more poised and prepared for whatever God has for you in the hours between. Request your gratitude journal today when you give. Call 888-665-4483 or donate online at ctvn.org slash donate. Thank you for giving to Cornerstone Television. What a great conversation, and I'm sure all of you and everybody here in the set was like, Matt, are you going to ask anything or say anything? And I think I've learned after like 12 years of marriage because if my wife is watching, I don't want to ask the wrong question, her be like, call up the hotlines but he's talking about me right now. You know, somebody cut him off a little bit. But one thing that Chris has said at the end, which I feel is key, is balance, right? I mean, because obviously we know everything is spiritually, but it is also physical. So I look at it as like, yeah, we want to cater to our spouses or our loved ones or our relationships. But what good am I if I don't have balance personally first? You know, and so I don't know, what do you guys think? Like what is important to you guys when it comes to like balance and likes it? Well, I'm like the same way, Matt, because I think it's about the person. We're responsible for our personal outcomes. And I know it's like we talk about like two becoming one, but you are a person. And I love what she brought up about the sleep, the fitness, and eating. Because if you don't have those things, there are certain things that chemically just naturally go off in your body that you're, and I love what she brought up early about the window of tolerance. Because I know that something that you talk about in therapy is like, if you have trauma or something's going in that window. So it's like, here's, this is here, and if you have something on in like, so here's everything your life is going on. And if you're just keep on hitting it and it's just like any like trauma or something, you're, it's just like there's a small window of tolerance where you're like, ting, ting, ting. Like everything is making me mad. I'm popping off. I'm not okay. I think we've all been there, but it's just because I'm not dealing with things that are going within. So I love that tip that she was just sharing because I think, Angel, we all have had those moments when you're like, I am a crab. Apple, I'm snapping. You made me mad. I want to talk to you. Leave me alone. Yes. That balance and true self-awareness is so critical. And that's why I love these marriage tools and the marriage tool that Krista brought today, her own book, is that it helps us to examine ourselves and see where I am. What are some of those tendencies I have when I get stressed out? Am I snappy or do I retreat? Am I showing up as my best self in my marriage or does he push the right buttons to get me in another space and why do those exist in me? So I love this conversation and I agree with you, Sydney, and Matt. It does. We must find balance within ourselves first and foremost with Christ and then examine how we show up in our marriage so that we can have a balanced, joyful experience. Yeah, that's good. I think thank God for the help of the Holy Spirit, right? Because without the help of the Holy Spirit, we'd all be out there just lost. Let's be honest, like, prideful. I'm stubborn at times, but thank God for the help of the Holy Spirit to kind of shut my mouth when it needs to be shut at times. But maybe you're at home watching or by something, something is going on. I love the Bible tells us to just be still, right? Be still and know. I think it's sometimes in those moments when we're quiet, we can then begin to self-reflect and investigate, okay, what's going on in me? Where is this coming from? And so we can quiet ourselves, quiet our mind, quiet the noise, whatever that might look like for you. Hear from the Holy Spirit. Take some time to say, okay, I got to humble myself in this moment. Holy Spirit, help to reveal unto me what it is that I need to see. I can't have my own way all the time, and that's okay. I need to operate in the love of God. But first and foremost, Holy Spirit said, help me to reveal what's going on inside here. This conversation is great. And one thing I've been watching on TikTok, just different marriage videos that have been popping up. And the one thing that I've heard different pastors say and something that I think we forget at times, marriage is supernatural. It's something that God created. It's a covenant. It operates so differently than other relationships. So when God created marriage, you cannot have marriage apart from God. And so it is essential that we first are in him and our relationships in him, and that we speak to him. And I like Matt, what you were just saying is like examining our hearts and what we're going through. That's what marriage is about. It's first birth out of God. And it's literally a supernatural thing. And I also heard recently like love, you need the Holy Spirit, the way to forgive, the way to have grace, the way to let go of faults and just certain things that happen. And also marriage is the ultimate picture. It's like when we have our marriages, it's a reflection of Christ's love for the church. So I think it's important that during this time that we seek the Father's face, that we seek the Holy Spirit, and we trust in Jesus to really be the one, to be the one in the middle, to repair, to strengthen our marriages because it is all about glorifying him. And we're so grateful that you have joined us today for Hope Today. We love you and we hope you have a wonderful weekend.