 It doesn't work. A cow can't look after a calf. Why not? Because it's not me to do that. So they get chopped up into pieces? So what feelings do you think a cow has? I'm just saying, do you agree now, agree with the sign? At least. It says all farmers mistreat their animals. No, I'll rip that down once I'm finished to be honest because I don't mistreat my animals. God, it's getting a bit chilly. Do you agree with me, mate? What's your name? What are we agreeing with? Do you want to have a debate with me, my friend? Yeah! Go on, let's get in. Come on, come on, come on. You want to come in, too? You can. No, no, he's good. No, he's innocent. No, no, he's good. You're good? Yeah, he's good at the beach. Ah, yeah. All right, let's go. So the sign that says all farmers mistreat their animals. Do you agree? Well, I'm a livestock haulier and I haul cattle every day and a week and I don't think all farmers mistreat their animals. You're a livestock hauler? Yeah. Seriously? So you carry stock? Which animals do you carry? Cattle and sheep. Cattle and sheep. So where do you take them? Well, I do a lot of work to farms and obviously I do a lot of work in slaughterhouses as well. Okay. So you don't think it's mistreatment to send animals to slaughter? Well, no, not really because I'm going to go down the air hopefully and have a bit of chicken or a bit of lamb or a bit of beef and it's just the way of the world, isn't it, really? Yeah, so if someone were to take me to the slaughterhouse would you call that mistreatment? Yeah, but they ain't going to take you to the slaughterhouse, are they? No, but if they were to, like in a hypothetical. In the time, isn't it? Yeah, but it's the end of my time. No, no, it's the end of the long sort of time, isn't it? Half of them. But how do you know what an animal... you know, if they... when they get old, they're no good anymore. They feel pain when they get old. How old are the chickens when they get slaughtered? Well, I don't do chickens. How old are their lambs when they get slaughtered? Nine months. How long do they live? Nine months. No, like how long is their lifespan? Well, not very long, really. Is it 10 to 12 years? We can flash that up on the screen now, but how long do cattle live? Cows. Well, to fatten up a cow, you're looking at about... No, I mean like their lifespan. What do you mean a life span? Uninterrupted, like without you slaughtering them. Well, probably 28 years. But they ain't no good when they're barring, are they? Well, I'm just saying that we end their life very quick, like 18 months, two years. Yeah, but that is false information that you've got there, because... Have you got the money to, you know, keep them for that long? I just don't think they should be bred into existence for the sole purpose of being chopped up. I'll call that mistreatment. Yeah, I don't agree with that. Okay, why not? Well, because it costs money to keep these animals. And then, you know... Why are they here in the first place? Well, that's good. Well, yeah, but that's the way of life, isn't it? I don't force you to think what you're thinking now, but when you come up to my lorry, when I'm stood outside trying to do my job, whacking banners in front of my lorry... Where's this? Well, everywhere I go, pretty much. So there's vegans out the front? I don't think it's anything against you. I think it's more about wanting to protect the animals. They stopped me from doing my job. You picked the wrong person here to argue with. I sit here all day. Come on, I want to sit here all day. Let's do it. I'm prepared. So I want to know why you don't think slaughtering animals is mistreatment? Because it's a way of life. So anything that's a way of life is not mistreatment? So what about your carrot that you dig out the ground? It has a life span still in the ground. We can talk about carrots, but I want to say as long as something is a way of life in your eyes, no matter what that thing is, that is not mistreatment. Well, yeah, like, if I was suffering from something or if I was, like, got... you know, when an animal lives for a certain amount of time, they do suffer because it's not nice to keep an animal that long. And if I was suffering, I'd rather pop a carrot. We're not talking about suffering animals. We're talking about... You said... You said healthy animals. You said mistreating animals. That's what we're talking about. And suffering an animal is mistreating an animal. Yeah, but you told me that all those animals that you take to slaughter haven't been mistreated, so they're not suffering. They're still getting slaughtered. Well, yeah, because, look, I bet... Hang on, I'll pull somebody up here and I'm doing this for the camera. Excuse me? Do you eat me? Yes, sir. Yeah, this woman eats me. See? I'll pull another... Excuse me? Do you eat me? Oh! Now, that's all right. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if everyone here is doing the same thing. It doesn't make your argument mean that it's morally correct. It is morally correct. It doesn't make your argument morally correct. But why do you think they're all farmers mistreating an animal? That's what you're saying. That's what you're saying. Because if you're breeding them for the sole purpose of killing them, using them for their body... They're not bred for that, are they? What are they bred for? They are bred for it. Yeah, but not all of them are bred. Come on, bro. We all know why these animals are being bred, why they're being farms. Excuse me? Do you eat me? Yeah, good man. This bloke's probably not doing me. Do you need a little bit of support from your meat-eating friends? Well, you've got your support with your camera, man. No, no, no. Okay, so basically, I think it's mistreatment because they are being used as property and being... But basically, anything can happen to them that the farmer chooses. Well, yeah, of course it does. So they get chopped up into pieces? So what are feelings? Do you think... I'm just saying, do you agree now? If I agree with the sign, at least, it says all farmers mistreat their animals. No, I'll rip that down once I'm finished, to be honest, because I don't mistreat my animals. You're not a farmer? Well, I am a farmer. My daytime job is to drive a livestock lorry, but my grandparents, my mother, all run a family farm. So I'm part of that family farm. And if you think that me mistreat our animals, then really, you're a waste of space, to be honest. Wait a second, wait a second. There's no need to get angry because I'm just trying to figure out why you think slaughtering animals isn't mistreatment. Yes, but I don't know how much of the population eat me. If you did a small family farm, let's talk about your small family farm, all right? Yeah, come on, man. Okay, so what animals have you got there? Catalan sheep. So catalan sheep, okay. Now, do you artificially breed them? Nope. You put a ram in there with the use? Nope. Where do you get these sheep from? A ramming. A ramming with the use? Well, no, not all the time. Sometimes you AI them. You AI the, yeah, I'm familiar with that. And what about the AI, the cattle? Yeah, sometimes. Do you have dairy? Yeah, I have dairy. Okay, what happens to their calves? Well, we rear them up. You take them away from the mum? Well, no, they can have a suck on them in a titty like a child. You can get, they're giving the colostrum and then that's it. Well, no, of course they have the mother's milk, don't they? Like, this is what I mean. How do you sell the dairy if they have the mother's milk? What do you mean how do I sell the dairy? They don't live off their mother's milk for f***ing all their life, do they? That's not our f***ing calf preach, is it? At what time start on cow's milk for about eight, six to eight weeks and then they're on cake? I mean, what's the problem with that? At what time do they get removed from their mother? Wow. A couple days, a couple hours. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So you don't think it's a mistreatment to take kids away from mothers? Yeah, but you really think a full-grown cow could ask you a question. No, no, no, no, shut up. If you think that you could, if a cow is good enough to look after a calf and like, it doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't work, does it? It doesn't work. A cow can't f***ing look after a calf. Why not? Because it's not me to do that. So you're doing this for the cow's best interest, basically, not to make money off dairy and sell their body parts or anything. You're doing it because you really care about cows. You're not really understanding any of this. I'm trying to understand why you don't think taking a calf from their mother is mistreatment. It's not, is it? It's just, it's been like it for, I don't know how many years, and how old are you? 35. Yeah, and I'm 20, and I've known it all my life, and it's been like that before you were 35. So what? What do you mean so much? People have been doing horrible things to each other for centuries, but that doesn't make it okay, just because something's been happening for a long time, it doesn't make it okay. That's all. I'm trying to find out why you think this isn't mistreatment. I don't understand why you think it's mistreatment. Bro, if I did any of this to you, like took you on a truck to the slaughterhouse, would you think that was mistreatment? Hang on a minute. I would actually be quite impressed. You would be impressed with being driven to a slaughterhouse? Yeah, I reckon I would be to be fair. I'd be terrified if it was me. What about you, brother? Do you, if it happened, anything that happens to the animals in animal agriculture? If you pick me up in something like that, I'll show the camera, look, as you know, I'll cover the name up. Here we go, look. Cover his number plate. Yeah, cover my number plate up. If that was me. If you'd like to be just driven to the slaughterhouse and that? Don't put that anywhere. You should be putting that, mate. Well, he's just the thing. He's like the cycle of life, isn't it? It's a circle of death, killing. Yeah, well, I'm done with it. I want to go on. Yeah, but you're going to die. You're going to die. You're going to die of natural causes, probably maybe some smoking-related thing later later on in life. But that's your choice. But I'm saying we're taking their life, fraction of their lifespan, chopping them up into pieces, slaughtering them. If that happened to any human being, it would be a cool bloody murder. It would be some type of horrible crime against humanity. But for some reason, it's OK to do it to cows, pigs, chickens, fish. It's not mistreatment. No! You just stay... OK. So what is good treatment for an animal, then? If that's not... What is good treatment if that's... Well, I think that the good treatment is they get all fed up nicely. They're all fattened up. Yeah, fattened up, then off they go. They're at the lake. What they go where? They're off they go there. So how do they get killed? Well, they die, don't they? No, but you've been farming industry for a long time. How do they get killed? There are so many different ways for them to be killed. OK, what's the main way that you think... You want to gas them? They gas the sheep? A lot of the time. They go around in their sheep, but don't fill their... Are you talking about pigs or sheep? Both. What, pigs, actually? Yeah, I know pigs are gassed, but sheep are... Stunned. What with? Electric. So a prong that goes... Yeah. Is that a clamp or a sticks into their neck like a prong? Sticks into their neck. OK, and that sends an electric current through their body, yeah? Yeah. OK, and that's not mistreatment. Because to be fair, I've got a hell of an electric prodder, and I do prod him every now and again. And is that mistreatment of your mate? No, is it f***ing? Do you like it? Is it f***ing mistreatment? He loves it. So if that was stuck into the back of your neck and you were made to go unconscious and then someone come and cut your head off, would you call that mistreatment? No, because it's not going to happen. What if it was a dog? A dog? Would it be mistreatment if we... Everything held equal, like what happens at your family farm to those cattle and sheep, and then they go after the slaughter? If they were all dogs, would you call that mistreatment of those dogs? Not if I wanted to eat the dog, though. OK, so it's only mistreatment up onto the point that you eat them. So if you did everything you did to these animals, chopped them up but didn't eat them, that would be mistreatment of the animal. You're saying if you eat them, it's not mistreatment? He takes might be... He goes abroad with it, so it's not ever going to go to waste, is it? OK, so if the victim doesn't go to waste, it's not mistreatment? No. Look, I treat them well when they're in the back of my lorry, so that's what we need to worry about. They have a good life after life and a good life before life. What's their afterlife like? Probably in the back of my trailer about Plus 2, so... I want to hope you don't come back reincarnated as a sheep or something. Why not? If I die again, it'll be nothing. No, it's not my problem. So I'm asking if the farmers are mistreat... Not if you're mistreating them. I'm asking if... No, no, no, no. You, you have put on this side. He's not a farmer, is he? No, he is. But you've put... Yeah, so he's saying when you're... You're a lorry driver. Are you a lorry driver as well? No, no, no, no. You've put on this side all farmers... Mistreat their animals. All farmers. All of them. It's not true, though, is it? He's not a farmer. He's not a farmer. Yeah, but that's not what we're getting on. You've put all farmers mistreat about me. It's not about him. It's about farmers. Exactly. And you're a farmer? Yeah. Yeah, so I'm saying that all farmers, because they're using them for their own gain, they're sending them to be slaughtered, using them for a profit, that is mistreatment. Yeah, but also we feed the UK, you know? We can feed them... I'm not saying plant farmers are doing... I support farmers, just not the ones who kill the animals. So you want me to turn everything into some carrot tops or some lettuce leaves in a polytunnel? I don't eat carrots. What makes you think I just eat carrots? If you're one of these farms and breaking into them, overnight, because you know what happens as well as I do, you all break into these farms... Well, it's not... If you're one of the farmers... Farm. I go into farms all the time, I don't destroy anything. I don't destroy anything. You're trespassing, aren't you? But that's not a crime. Yes, it is a f***ing crime. Not in the UK. Agriva... No, it's not. It's trespassing. No, aggravated trespassing is a crime. I go on aggravating. No, no. If you ask me to leave, that's a crime. But you don't... I don't leave. But wait, I'm sleeping so I can be up in the morning. No, no, no. Going onto someone's property to document the cruelty in their farm is not a crime. It's f***ing trespassing! Australia it is. No, it's trespassing in this country. It's not against the law. It's more of a misdemeanor. It's trespassing. It's a civil offence. It's f***ing trespassing. It's a civil offence. If you go into somebody's farm without their permission, it's f***ing trespassing. It's trespassing, but trespassing is not a crime. You don't have the f***ing permission to go in there. It's a civil offence. I'm just telling you that. What is it with you in all this civil f***ing? Because it's not a crime. It's a f***ing crime. If you turn up at my farm... It doesn't matter. The cops will just say... Oh, here we go. What's this? Crockway? Sorry? I recognise that. Have you got any pig farms or not? Yeah, I've got some pig farms. I'll have a gander at that. They're all s***holes. Disgusting. Pig farms are all... Disgusting, especially farrowing sheds. Do you know any pig farmers? Who's that? That's Crockway, isn't it? That is Crockway. This is just an average farrowing shed. But where is that? I don't know. You do know. In England. Where too? In England, I don't know. What's Crockway? I won't disclose locations. Yeah, but that's Crockway. What's wrong with this animal here? Yeah, what's up with that? That's white farm as well. No, it's not. Do you think there's something wrong with farrowing sheds? Because we can talk about farrowing sheds. But I am saying all farmers. But at least, do you think factory farms mistreat animals? No. OK. So you were actually saying that... Do you think... OK, let me ask you mate, you seem a bit more rational. Do factory farms mistreat animals? No. So even if they're getting tortured in there, it's not mistreatment? They're not getting tortured, are they? There they are. How? How's that torture? You don't think living in a cage... Where's your f***ing cage? This animal didn't suffer to death? I'm not all about chickens, are we? We weren't all about chickens, were we? No, these are factory farm chickens. Is that living like that, not torture? With their leg all sprawled out on the ground? Damn. That's not torture, putting them in these little cages? No. That's not like your lorry, Geoff. That's not. This little piglet... What are you doing here? Dead. That's you, isn't it? Was dead in the cage with the mother? Yeah. That happened. Yeah, but... Hang on. What about a child that dies at birth? Because my sister gave birth to a dead child. Yeah. So what's the difference? What's the difference? This piglet... Shut the f*** up. What's the difference? There's stillborns, right? But these piglets are dying because they're in this small cage and they can be dying of... No, it's still because they're dying. I've seen stillborns. Yeah. This piglet was too big to be a stillborn. No, it's not. That piglet was too big to be a stillborn. Maybe it was too big so it could have suffocated on the way out. She could have laid on her piglet because she can't... Or she could have suffocated. No, no, no. Did you see it happen? Did you see it happen? Did you see it happen? They didn't have any afterbirth there. Did you see it happen? No, I didn't see it happen. So we don't know. We don't know. But the fact that she's in the farrowing crate for six weeks on end is torture. It's not torture though, is it? You sit in a little cage for six weeks on end. They have to... On top of their own crap... It's in can for six weeks. No, on top of your own crap, you know they f*** right below themselves. Yeah, it's gone, isn't it? If you don't think that that's mistreatment, I really am... I don't know what else to say to you, because I mean, we could talk about your family farm, but you won't even agree that factory farms mistreat animals, and that's like most of the public are not on your side with that. I'll tell you what is torture though, is keeping the whales in the f***ing aquariums. That is torture. Why do you care? They're just going round and round. Why do you care? That's different. Why do you care? What on earth? Because you don't even think factory farms are mistreatment. No, it's not. Because... What's the difference between putting them... They're bread for all the people here. Yeah, they're all supporting the mistreatment of animals. No, they're not there, are they? They're 100% are. No, they're not. They're f***ing gone. If you donate your money to a factory farm... We are going to get some, but I'll stick to your f***ing day. So, I don't really understand where you're trying to go later. Well, I'm just... I'm basically saying... No, she doesn't know exactly... Yeah, she doesn't want to say it in an opinion. Well, let me just ask. Does anyone else want to sit down for a discussion, or you just... Yeah, I'll have to say it, though. Are you afraid? Yeah. Oh, really? You know what, bro? Thanks for sitting down, eh? I thought I'd see you there. You don't want to shake my hand? No. Thanks for sitting down. Come on, mate. Yeah, but it's just a little shit. It's not good. That's not good sportsmanship, is it? That's not good sportsmanship, mate. No, it's just a little shit. What, you agree with that? Yeah. What, all the farmers are going to shit? Right, that's not f***ing shit. No. There you go. We don't need to talk for that s***. Yeah, no, because I know there's a camera cut here. Yeah, because they're going to go broadcast. Hang on. Go to him. Go to him. No, all my points are based off your videos. That's all the points I know. See, watch his videos. Believe everything he said. Never seen it. Yes, it is. Never seen it. Uh-huh. I became vegan before I watched his videos. Yeah, but you've just literally said you agree with everything that he said, specifically what he said. He said it. That's what he just said! No, he listened to him, heard the facts, and saw the truth. You saw, like, five or six farms. You can explain the truth without farms. Go on then. You can explain what happens to animals. Explain it. Well, they get mass bread and slaughtered for a needless item like a burger. So you think, like, a farmer, you know, it's not, you know, not very well off, you know, as of my granddad, as of not very well off, and he can't do anything else because he's never done it. He can't do anything else. Because that's all he's known. He's 84. So if he's 84, he can still... Do what? It's one of the hardest... Farmers is one of the hardest jobs you can do. How is he going to make... Anyway, how is he going to make money? Is farming one of the hardest jobs you can do, animal farming? Not really. It's not hard. It's easy. It's not the hardest job you can do, is it? It's one of the hardest jobs you can do. It's not. There was it. Have you ever farmed? No, it's not much. You don't get much profit out of it, do you? Well, no. You can make a living out of it. So he can do something else and kill animals. I'm just saying. But he's 84. He's farmed all his life. He should have retired by now, brother. Yeah, but he doesn't kill them. He should have retired by now. He shouldn't be killing animals. I don't f***ing kill them. If he had no other choice, like in a survival situation, different, but he does have other options in the UK, he does. What's he going to do at 84? He can do anything. Tell me. I'm just going to say this. He shouldn't be killing animals, no matter if he's 84. But he's not killing animals. And he's probably a great man, but he shouldn't be killing animals. But he's not, is he? So... And you're saying that is disgusting. I'm not going to say that. All farmers mistreat their animals because they're killing them or exploiting them, and that's mistreatment. Yeah, but have you seen an animal that's lived too long? What do you want to do with it? Well, it's f***ing... When the legs are f***ing split. Well, that's different. No, no, no, it's not. If it's in there, if you're suffering, that's a mercy killing. That's the only humane slaughter there is, a mercy killing. And there's no other option. So you want something to, like... If there's no... If there's no... Suffer for six months. I know, yeah. If you saw a cow with a broken leg, you just think, oh, f***, I'll leave that there. Can I answer? Yeah. Okay, cool. If it's a mercy killing and they're suffering and it's in their best interest, then that's not wrong. But if they want to live... What do you mean it's in their interest? It's in their interest to die because they're suffering and there's no way to help them. That's different. It's a mercy killing. Are you familiar with mercy killings? No, because they're suffering and then you kill them. If you're saying, kill me, I'm suffering. There's no hospital for a million miles. I'm dying. Can you help me die? If I was suffering, I'd ask to be killed, yeah. Okay. Ah, but... But what could you do with a cow with a broken leg? What could you do with a horse? What could you do with a horse? What is a horse? Insert... Yeah, yeah, a bit. A bit. A bit. But there are situations where there would be, like, no going back. This animal needs to be put down. There's a line. But not like a... I've been doing it for benefit. The difference is just not doing it for your own benefit. Farmers might smash a piglet's head on the ground because they don't grow quick enough. They thump animals because they don't grow quick enough in a piglet farm. Do you know about that? Thumping animals? So they grab piglets by their hind legs if they're runts and they smash their head on the ground or on the wall and that's the way to dispatch them. If they're not born correctly, they might do that. If they're not growing fast enough or they're sick... It's like they're not fast enough at all. If they're sick, they do the same thing. Well, yeah, but if it grows... So if you're sick, do you think it's okay just to smash your head on the floor and kill you? That's what they do to piglets. But have you got the money to keep... They shouldn't be doing it anyway. Yeah, but have you got the money to breed... animals? They shouldn't be doing... they shouldn't be breeding as soon as you breed them to kill them. For your own gain, that's mistreatment. Well, I don't believe you. No, I don't believe you. Well, it's okay. You can be wrong. I've been wrong heaps of times in my life. I was eating meat for 26 years, bro. 26 years. For longer than you've been alive, I was eating meat. Eating steaks, supporting farmers, eating bloody, big, rare steaks. But then I just thought about it and I was like, you know what? I hate people being cruel to animals. I don't want to be a hypocrite. If someone was torturing an animal right here, I'd probably have a fight with them, stop them, but you know, I'm doing it with my other hand. I'm stopping cruelty with one hand, whinging about it, and then I go to buy a burger with the other hand. You're not going to stop, are you? Then I can stop supporting it myself. Yeah, you can stop. You can't stop all these people. And I can also make statements like this. Excuse me. Are you a vegan? No. Ah, that is you. Are you a vegan? Who's a vegan? Are you a vegan? Okay, some vegans. Vegans, one, two, three, four, five. There's five out of like... It doesn't matter. It doesn't make you right just because it's a popular opinion. You're not going to turn everybody to not eating meat. If that's what you want to do, you just won't get back now. I'm just trying to prove you wrong, and I want you to prove this statement wrong, but I don't think you do. Yeah, but that's just a little... You're saying mistreatment because they're sent to slaughter. So if you treat, you know... They're actually treated as property. They're owned by the farmer. The farmer can do it though. The farmer can put them down whenever he wants. Yeah. Yeah, so he's got that over them. Yeah. That's mistreatment. It's unfair. What? It's unfair treatment. If he said, well, you put an animal down. If you see a dog... We're not talking about that. We're not talking about that. You went on about f***ing dogs. If you saw a dog suffering, you put it down. Are the animals in your truck all needing to be put down? Are they? Well, yeah. Are they, really? So you're just doing them a big favour by driving all these animals to the slaughterhouse to put them down because they're all suffering. Okay. All right. That's what you do for a living. You help animals. You're a vet. I'm a vacuum. Only get up in the morning, I can do exactly the f***ing thing. End of story. No nights. I'll see you in Sheffield. See yous later. So, well, there we go. We got a farmer, lorry driver, and a discussion. So, that was good. Interesting. We also got a crowd here of vegans. So, I think he was a little bit, like, unsure about what I meant by mistreatment. That's for sure. You know? So, he's saying, even at my small family farm, that's mistreatment. And I'm saying yes. So, hard for farmers to get their head around that because everyone's like, oh, farmers love their animals, and, you know, farmer Bob, best backyard farmer in all of Wales, you know, like, but yeah, you're sending those animals to be slaughtered. Don't like to show footage of that, do they, in the farmers? Are you a farmer, my friend? Don't. Do not start filming me. What is it about? Tell him to switch that off now. Yeah, no. Okay, stop filming. Sorry? Are you a farmer? A little bit aggressive there. I think you need to calm down a bit. All right, all right. If you want to have a discussion, you need to calm down.