 Welcome to the webinar on Utilizing Service Canada's Confidential Tip Line for Temporary Foreign Workers. I will be introducing the speakers as we go through the program, but before we get to far along, I want to welcome everybody. I'm David Ivany, part of the Empowering Temporary Foreign Workers during COVID-19 team. I'll be moderating today's session. I would like to acknowledge that we are meeting today on the traditional territories of the Indigenous peoples across Turtle Island. We thank them for allowing to meet and learn together on their territories. To the original caretakers of the land of which we stand, I acknowledge the traditional territories of many nations, including the Mississaugas of the Credit, the Anishinaabe, the Chippewa, the Haudenosaunee, and the Wendat peoples where I am right now. To all that was here for thousands of years before us across Turtle Island, we honor the struggles and the lives of those who gave themselves for it. For all those here today, we acknowledge the ancestors beneath our feet and the land on which we stand. With our ears to the ground, we can hear them, the Cree Nation, the Métis, the Anishinaabe, the Dakota and Lakota Nations, the Inui, the Blackfoot, the Inui, and all of nations that came before us and those yet to become. An infinity of footsteps of those who long called this land home. The unfolding of bundles, the undoing of colonization and the opening of this land to allow a treaty to come alive. We affirm our relationship to each other and to the land. We acknowledge and pay respects to the indigenous nations and ancestors of this land. Once again, I acknowledge the traditional territory of many nations, including the Mississaugas of the Credit, the Anishinaabe, the Chippewa, the Haudenosaunee, and the Wendat peoples where I am right now. A few technical notes for this webinar. To help keep noise disturbances at low, we ask that you remain muted until called upon during the Q&A. We hope to have plenty of time for Q&A and the chat feature will be available through the presentation for you to engage, who for you to introduce yourselves as you continue to come in and where you hail from. During the Q&A, I will read questions from the chat into the discussion and you can also use the raise hand feature to queue for asking questions that you may have. There will be two Q&A sessions, one after the presentation from Service Canada and one after our partners in the project presented. We will be recording this session, so you are free to ask questions with your camera off if you would prefer. Similarly, if you do not wish to be in the audio recording, put your questions in the chat and I will read them in. This webinar will be translated into Spanish and that audio file will be made available for download and dissemination at a later date. The ETFW team is here with us today. We have Mitos and Connie and Jay Lin. I believe ESL will be joining us soon as well and we have ESL here as well. We have members of the CHIRO team here as well. As we move into the session, this webinar will discuss the use of Service Canada's confidential tip line for reporting the abuse or misuse of temporary foreign workers, how to use the tip line and what happens when a call is received. We will also discuss potential barriers to its use and how those of us who support workers can help in using the service. To start, we have Jonathan Larakis and Mark Douglas, Senior Program Advisors in the Integrity Services Branch of Service Canada. We appreciate Service Canada partnering with us on this project and we thank each of them for speaking today. We appreciate both of you coming here to better inform us about the tip line and its use. You can take it away. Thank you, David. Good afternoon and thank you for inviting us today to speak about Service Canada's tip line for TFWs and to speak about our inspections process. My name is Jonathan Larakis and with me is my colleague, Mark Douglas, who will also be presenting. We are both Senior Program Advisors for the Temporary Foreign Worker Program and the information being presented today is current and up-to-date as of this presentation. So if you are watching a recorded version of this webinar at a later date, please check Service Canada's website to get the most up-to-date information. The goal for today is to provide you an overview of the journey of a tip or allegations that is reported to Service Canada, starting with how to report to us and what we do after a tip has been received, including our inspections process. And so we're always looking at ways to make the Temporary Foreign Worker Program better for workers and we rely on feedback from partners such as yourselves to do this. And so last year, several improvements have been made to our reporting process based on what we heard from migrant worker support organizations and TFWs themselves. First, we made it easier for people to report abuse to us in their own language. Our telephone tip line has instructions in English, French and in Spanish. And depending on when they call the tip line, callers may also be able to speak to a live agent, a live Service Canada agent directly in one of more than 200 languages through an interpreter that will also be on the line to translate the conversation between the agent and the caller as it's going on. And secondly, we've redesigned our online reporting tool to streamline it, making it easier to read, understand and use. So with that said, if you need to report to us, you can do so through two main ways. You can call our call center and either speak with an agent or leave a message depending on what time you call. The telephone tip line is available 24 hours a day, seven days a week and is free from any telephone number in Canada. Right now, the live agents are available from 6.30 a.m. to 8.00 p.m. on weekdays and weekends and holidays from 9.00 a.m. to 3.00 p.m. All time zones are Eastern time. So all time zones in Ontario and Quebec. Outside of these hours, callers can also leave a voicemail with details of what's going on and or their contact information for an agent to follow up on. And secondly, you also have the option to submit on our report, to submit a report on our website, which is accessible on a computer tablet or smartphone. Bless you. So actually a quick survey. Before this presentation, before this presentation, before this webinar, have you known about or heard of this tip plan? So if you guys want to use your reaction buttons to raise your hands that yes, I have prior to this. Yes, I've been aware. OK, so I see a couple of thumbs up, a couple of thumbs up. All right, so that just goes to show there's still a lot more work for us to do in promoting this tip plan. So thank you again for those who have responded. And so when should you report to us? So below are just a few examples of situations where you can report to us. Situations where the employer is not paying the TFW during their quarantine. Situations where the employer is not providing cleaning supplies to help sanitize and keep the accommodations clean. Situations where they're not providing accommodations that are in good condition or not providing a workplace free of abuse. I'm so sorry. And just as a friendly reminder to just keep ourselves on mute as we continue through this webinar. Thank you. And so when making a report at minimum, we need details about the employer and details of the situation, such as what is happening? Who is involved? When did it take place? Where did it happen? Your contact information or the information or the informants information is optional, but helps us if we need to reach you for additional information. Always remember that you can remain anonymous when you do report, which leads us to our next slide. In protecting the privacy of workers. So Service Canada takes the protection of TFW privacy very seriously. And according to the Supreme Court of Canada case R versus Leapert, Service Canada does not release information received from third parties who wish to remain anonymous. In cases where a TFW wishes to remain anonymous, Service Canada inspectors will use the information they provide as a basis of what to inspect, but they will be very careful not to share any information that could identify the source of the information to the employer. The information the caller provides or the lead or the tip is not a part of the employer's cases file and is not included in the file. This is to make sure that in the event the employer or anyone else makes a formal request through Canada's access to information and privacy laws, also known as an A tip request, the information about what prompted the inspection will not be included in the response. So after a report has been submitted, we determine if in fact the employer is a user of the temporary foreign worker program. We determine if it needs to be redirected to another department or agency such as IRCC, RCMP or the local police. We evaluate if we need more information and based on the information that we've received, we determine the next steps, which leads us to our next section, which will be presented by my colleague, Mark Douglas, who will go into more details on inspections. Thank you very much, Jonathan. So if you go to the next slide, please. So what causes an inspection? There are five key reasons that Service Canada can launch an inspection according to our regulations. The first reason is that we've received a tip or a lead that a business does not comply with their LMA. In addition to receiving tips from the tip line and online tool, tips and leads can also originate from news outlets, provincial partners and stakeholders, foreign consulates, third parties and the workers themselves. The second main reason is an earlier inspection is found the employer non-compliant. So if an employer has previously been non-compliant, they will be, we can actually launch an inspection as a result of that. The third reason is that an employer is selected for a random inspection. Service Canada utilizes a risk modeling system that identifies high-risk regions, occupations and industries and randomly selects employers based on their risk of non-compliance. The fourth reason is the inspecting employers whose temporary foreign workers are or were subject to the quarantine or emergencies acts. Finally, we can also launch an inspection in the case where there's the introduction of the communicable disease where the temporary foreign worker works. So for example, if we find out that there is someone infected with COVID-19 at a temporary foreign workers work site. So how are inspections conducted? Service Canada connects both physical, on-site and virtual inspections. When Service Canada inspectors go to a work site, they will have picture ID that lists their name, their job title and the organization they work for, Service Canada. Inspectors will always ask the employer to show that they're meeting the terms of their labor market impact assessment. They'll ask for proof such as documents, photographs and they'll interview the employer, their staff and their TFWs separately and privately. In Canada, there's a clear delineation of authority between federal government and the provincial and territorial governments. Public health and work by safety are mainly the responsibility of the province or the territory. For this reason, Service Canada has also started to work with our partners in the provinces and territories as well as other federal partners to coordinate inspections and help fight the spread of COVID-19. Service Canada must respect provincial or territorial authorities when conducting our inspections. To help with this, last summer, we conducted joint inspections with the provinces in both Ontario and British Columbia. We're working to improve collaboration with the provincial partners to improve our inspections and to improve employer compliance, which directly affects temporary foreign workers. Service Canada can inspect a workplace with or without first telling the employer that we're coming. If we notify our employer in advance, we call it an announced inspection. Otherwise, it would be an unannounced inspection. If an employer is selected for an announced onsite inspection, the inspector will contact the employer before arriving and explain why they've been selected for the inspection, what the employer will have to do and provide them with the date that will be onsite. If an employer is selected for an unannounced inspection, their first contact with the inspector will be when they arrive at the work site. When the inspector arrives, the employer must let them onto the work site to see where the workers work and if the employer provides accommodations where they live. While onsite, inspector will take photos or video, collect documents and conduct interviews with the temporary foreign workers and the employer. The employer is expected to provide reasonable assistance and access to the inspector. This means doing whatever they need to help the inspection go smoothly, including giving the inspector access to documents and clear a place for private interviews. Yep. In the event that a TFW is selected for an interview, don't worry. We're interviewing the temporary foreign worker to confirm the employer's compliance. We're not inspecting the temporary foreign worker. We're inspecting the employer. An employer has been notified of inspection who does not show up or give access to the work site and workers will need to provide justification. Due to COVID-19, Service Canada has introduced virtual inspections under certain circumstances. Specifically, virtual inspections can take place in situations of known outbreaks or when workers are in quarantine. Virtual inspections allow us to inspect without spreading the virus. Given the seriousness of COVID-19 and the danger it poses, virtual inspections are carried out under very tight timeframes so that any issues can be identified and addressed. During a virtual inspection, the inspector will contact the employer by phone. The employer will be required to submit information such as photos and documents that show their compliance through email. The employer must also make sure that the inspector can interview the temporary foreign workers in private either by phone or by video conference. So what do we inspect? Service Canada can check that employers are following up to 28 different conditions. Some of the conditions where we most commonly see violations include wages, so situations where the employer is not paying the wage confirmed on the labor market impact assessment. Working conditions where the employer is not meeting the working conditions laid out on the labor market impact assessment. Housing provided by the employer if they're required to do so. Situations where the employer fails to provide the documents to demonstrate compliance with their labor market impact assessment and that the business is legitimate in operation and able to employ and pay its workers. So what are we looking for when we do our inspections? When we conduct our inspections, we're looking for the employer to prove that they're complying with their LMIA. This means that they must prove that they've been paying the workers properly, that the TFW's working conditions match what was in their contract and that the employer is following the employment laws of the province or territory in which the worker is working. We also want to see it that the employers do not do anything to keep workers from following the quarantine and emergency sites. Some specific examples of what we look at. We look at time sheets or proof of the hours that the TFW worked. We want to see that they're paid properly. These documents should show the workers start and end times and when they took their breaks. Proof that the TFW workers were paid their wages. Often employers will submit payroll information, but we also want to see proof that the workers were in fact paid. So for example, if they're paid by check, we want to see the front and back of the check to make sure that the TFW negotiated the check. Records of cash advances. We know that in a lot of situations when TFW workers arrive, they ask for a cash advance from their employer. We want to see that the evidence that the TFW did in fact request the cash advance, received it and agreed to the repayment terms. Accommodations, when inspecting out accommodations while on site, we frequently identify discrepancies between the accommodations provided to the foreign worker and the housing inspection reports. Examples include non-functioning or partially functioning appliances, missing screens on windows or vermin and by the speaking presence. Next slide. Once the inspector's completed fact finding, they'll advise the employer if the inspection is complete and the employer has been found on a factory. If non-compliance has been identified during the inspection, the inspector will advise the employer that they must provide justification. If we identify non-compliance during fact finding, employers provide a chance to justify why they were non-compliant in accordance with the immigration and refugee protection regulations. They're asked to provide a detailed explanation as to why they were not compliant and explain what steps they've taken to rectify the non-compliance and prevent it from happening in the future. If the employer provides a credible, acceptable justification in accordance with the regulations, they'll be found satisfactory. If the employer justifies the non-compliance after you do an error made in good faith and they're found to be non-compliant for the same condition in the future, that justification will not be accepted. If the employer is still not compliant after submitting their justification, they'll be sent a notice of preliminary finding that outlines the consequences. This notices the employer's final opportunity to provide new information that may change the decision. Any new information submitted is objective and reviewed to determine whether it changes the outcome of the case. If the employer is still not compliant after the notice of preliminary finding, they'll receive a notice of final determination that advises them of any penalties and or bans from the program. So what are the consequences of non-compliance? If after responding to the most preliminary finding, the employer is still found non-compliant, they can face a penalty and or a ban from the program. Non-compliance with any of the conditions can result in penalties, up to $100,000 per violation to a maximum of a million dollars in a calendar year in the case of multiple violations. The employer could also face a program ban that ranges from one year to a permanent ban in most severe cases. Non-compliant employers will have their business details posted to an immigration refugee in Citizenship Canada public website. The website will outline the consequences of non-compliance and why the employer was found non-compliant. And that's the end of our presentation today. So we welcome any questions you have. And as always, we encourage you to go and check our websites for up-to-date information on the current state of the program. Back to you, John. Anything to add before we get to questions, Jonathan? No, again, so we're always looking at ways to improve the reporting process. And so we're always open to any feedback you guys may have, if not about our tip line, about our service or even about this presentation. So if you guys do have some comments or feedback you'd like to share, for those of you who have used the tip line in the past, we are always open to whatever feedback you guys have to share. And so I'll actually leave, pass it back to David who'll facilitate the Q&A session. So thank you again so much for that. I'm sure there are questions arising from this. So please use the raise hand function as I'm seeing people are starting to do and feel free again to add your questions to the chat. Great to see people already raising hands. So we're gonna get to the questions in one minute. I just wanna say that as illuminating as they can be hypothetical situations would be difficult to answer in this context. So let's try to keep questions to more questions rather than proposing hypotheticals. So we're gonna start with Father Peter. Thank you. Thank you for the presentation. One question I just wanted to ask off the bat is about the findings of the report. Are the employees and or intervening party like let's say ourselves if we're intervening on behalf of an employee are we privy to the findings as well? So due to privacy considerations and inspection it'll always be between Service Canada and the employer. So unfortunately that information will not be available to anyone outside of the employer. And just a second question I promise I won't monopolize. How many tips on average are handled on a weekly basis? Is there a data on that? We do. So actually I do have the stats. So because the service is still new and we've been monitoring it since its launch in April like the live agent because prior to the live agent I was strictly just voicemail. And so since April 1st the latest we have since April 1st to August end of August is we've received roughly 3,300 calls that have come in through the call center and leads that have come in through or tips that have come in through our web tool are around 434 for that same time period. But again that's just through those two main channels. There are other ways that we receive tips and allegations but those are the stats that I have on hand is for our online tool and for our tip line. So since April 1st to August we're looking about together you're looking about 4,000 tips cumulative, almost 4,000 or calls from both. Thank you. Okay, we're gonna go to Eswani. Yes, hi and thank you for the presentation. My question is, is there a document or a line where it specifies what is considered bad housing? What would be including when you want to report in bad housing? Because that's kind of a very large term, right? Bad housing can be different things from each other from different people's perspective. And would that be part of like some health? I have heard about cases that is a lot of bed box problem in the housing of American workers like in the bunk houses. In my opinion, that's something to do with health but I have heard that is not. So could you please clarify on that? I'll actually, so this is more of an inspections question that I'll pass on to Mark. So with regards to bourbon and bugs, such as bed bugs we would ask that be reported to us so that we can look at doing an inspection on that. With relation as to what is bad housing we're unfortunately limited in terms of what we do based upon what the housing inspection report is. So what it boils down to is as long as the housing meets the inspection report then it's considered to be acceptable. Housing inspection reports are handled by different groups depending upon which province or territory and even in some cases which municipality they're in. However, if there are issues such as insufficient space for TFWs to properly socially, physically distance or if there are situations such as there are inadequate facilities for the temporary farm workers, elements such as no running hot water, those are the type of elements we will very definitely look into. Beyond that unfortunately, because there are so many different standards across the country it's hard for me to give you a blanket statement as to what would be considered bad housing. Okay, thank you. Thank you for that question this one. And on the topic of inspections, Jalen had a question in the chat. How has it decided whether the inspection is announced or unannounced? Right now for the most part, a lot of our inspections are announced because of the risk of COVID-19. During sort of a more standard timeframe we would be looking at depending upon the assessed risk of the employer. So if for example, we received a lead or an allegation that the employer was not doing something appropriate that would be much more likely to be an unannounced inspection. However, certain industries because of the nature of the industries and the risk it poses to people coming on site would mandate it being an announced inspection. So again, it's a bit of a difficult one to answer but it's mostly dependent upon the risk level of the situation as to whether it will be announced or not. Thank you for that. We're gonna go to Kit. Hi, thanks David. And thank you Mark and Jonathan for your presentation. I have another question about the inspection specifically about the interviews with workers. These interviews are they random workers selected by the inspectors? And if so, are the employers notified that these are indeed random? Because otherwise there might be the situation where the employer sees certain workers being interviewed and might single them out as the ones who reported the conditions or is it the case that the employers choose which workers inspectors speak to which can cause problems that are quite obvious? And I'm asking because these are situations that I've supported workers themselves in dealing with and supported them in reporting and they've come back to me saying, you know, the employer saw me being interviewed so they think I'm the one who made the report or the employer supervisor chooses which workers speak to the interviewers depending on which ones will say what's acceptable by the employer. So that's my first part, the selection of workers and then the second part is the privacy. How is Service Canada ensuring the privacy of workers who are selected for interviews? So in the cases of virtual interviews how does Service Canada ensure that the employer is not in the room with the worker while they're being interviewed? Thank you. So with regards to your question I can only partially answer it. I'm not gonna be able to go into detail about how we select workers. However, I will say that employers are not we don't leave it up to the employer to decide who we will interview. Our inspectors do choose who will be interviewed but I can't go into detail about how we specifically select workers for obvious reasons in relation to both the protection of the workers and in terms of making sure that employers do not know how we make our selection. So I'm sorry, I can't go into detail about that. With relation to how do we verify that the employer is not in the room with the workers it is absolutely a challenge that we face. And it's one of the reasons why we try to make sure that we're always doing video conference interviews but that isn't always possible depending upon the level of technology available to the temporary form worker. But yeah, when we're doing remote interviews we are seeking to do it on video conference so that we can verify who else is in the room with the temporary form worker. Okay, thank you, Mark. So you can't say whether it's random interviews or whether it's workers selected by the employer. Well, it's not workers selected by the employer. Thank you for that. Let's go to Cooper Institute. Hi there. I just have two questions. Just building off the last question that was asked when translation is required for an interview with a worker who is providing that translation? It's provided by Service Canada. Okay, thank you. And then the other question that I just have is when it is an announced inspection when communicating with the employer what is shared with the employer in regards to why an inspection is happening? So according to the regulations we are required to provide the employer with the trigger of the inspection. So whether it is pass-on compliance whether it is a reason to suspect whether it is due to workers having had to quarantine or whether it's due to the introduction of a communicable disease where the TFW works but that's the extent of the information that's provided to the employer. Nothing further is provided. Okay, so like if a complaint came in through the tip line or the online system it would be communicated that they... They would not be told that a tip or an allegation came in they'd be told that we received information that led to the inspection. Okay, great, thank you. I'm not certain that this question can sort of be answered in this space but I think it's an important thing to note. It's been asked if no one else knows the results of the investigation or how do we as allies to migrant workers have faith in the process. I think it's kind of about like what information potentially could be available to people invested in workers or in terms of trusting that the information is being carried forward. I completely understand where you're coming from, David. I know that this is something that's been extensively brought up with our Skills and Employment Branch who are our policy division. Unfortunately, I don't have anything else I can really say about it but I hear what you're saying. Obviously, whenever an employer is found non-compliant it does get posted on the Immigration Refugee and Citizenship Canada website but that also can take a very long time before that happens because of the number of steps we have to go through to find an employer non-compliant. So I do completely understand where you're coming from with the relationship up. Thank you for that. We're gonna go to Christina Gomez. Good afternoon. I have my question is in a different way. I would like to know how often the owner farmers update regarding regulation because if we have that here, maybe we can have so many things about many different problems the worker has to face. So it's an honor that the farmers have updates and they know how much to pay for any kind of fault. They didn't follow the regulation so they didn't have many irregularities and different. So I would like to know how Service Canada updates the owner farmers regarding regulation. I think the question you're asking is how often do we update employers about changes to regulations? Is that correct? Yes, that's correct. Again, that isn't something that Integrity Services Branch handles. So it's a bit difficult for me to answer that. I do know that any changes to the regulations result in our Skills and Employment Branch notifying all users of the program. Oh, sorry, all employers use the program and also employer associations through an email push. But that's about all I'm really positioned to answer. I'm gonna bring in one more question from the chat and then do one more question on the mic. And then we're going to, there will be more time for Q and A. I'm just gonna move it to the presentations from our partners. But there's a question, a few questions about how workers are informed about the tip line and like how the process is explained to workers. Like does Service Canada have a strategy for informing workers about the tip line and what that process looks like on whether it's on the spot or not for the interview. So in regard to the tip line, that is something that we're currently working on is how to promote it further among foreign workers. And so I think last year, I think it was this year we've announced funding to help support organizations such as yourselves to who work and deal with migrant worker support organizations who deal with TFWs directly in assisting them. And so we're working such as today, working more collaboratively with other partners such as yourselves to do these outreach sessions to promote the tip line. And so some of the feedback that we have heard through these kinds of forums is that although there are some organizations out in BC, let's say, I know after doing some outreach with BC, there are organizations that hand out pamphlets at the airport when TFWs do arrive. That is the extent of the kind of work that's being done but we do acknowledge that there's more opportunities to further promote and educate foreign workers on what resources are available to them. And this is just the start. So we're always happy and open to working together to do more in promoting the tip line, whether it's having a little laminated card or whether it's having sessions such as this. Eduardo, I will bring more of your questions into the chat in a little bit. I'm gonna go to Connie first and then I'm gonna take one more question on the mic from Rachel. But again, there will be more time for our question and answers after our partners. Thank you very much, David. And thank you very much, Jonathan, for your last comment because that's exactly what we're also trying to do. There's quite a bit of, and I would say this, honestly and frankly, there's quite a bit of, I wouldn't say suspicion, but not many workers or a majority of the workers are not trusting to file a complaint on the tip line and file allegations, right? Because of fear of the price almost. And what we're trying to do now with our community partners who are directly working with micro workers on the ground is bridge that gap and having this session, for example, having you come and present and being able to respond to the questions that our community partners are raising is a step forward in developing that relationship and creating the trust. Because whatever happens and at this conversation, whatever transpired in this webinar is definitely going to be transmitted to the workers that our community partners are working with on the ground. And also to mention that we do have airport support services of the Toronto Pearson International Airport and included in the information materials that we're providing is about the tip line. So we are collaborating in terms of getting the information out and hopefully more workers are able to trust the process and be able to unrelectively come out and use the tip line. So I just want to... Thank you very much for that comment, Connie. I think one thing I want to really emphasize is that it's really important that when our inspectors are on site and interviewing the foreign workers that they let us know what's going on because one of the biggest problems we have is that we'll receive a tipper or lead or an allegation and we'll go on site and we'll interview a variety of workers and all the workers will tell us is, oh yeah, everything's fine. And that really handicaps our ability to pursue with the inspection. We need to hear from the workers what the issues are, what's going on. And it's really important that they be prepared to talk to us when we are on site because the intention is when we're out there to interview them, we're there to try and find out what's going on so that we can take the necessary steps and we completely understand that number one, they certainly are fear reprisal from their employers and potentially from other people who are involved in their situation. They potentially come from countries where they do not have faith in the government. We understand that as well. And so as a result, us being there and speaking to them is not something that they want to have happen. We completely get that. It's just the unfortunate situation that we need to be able to find evidence that the employer is not complying with their LMIA and that's where they can really help us. Thank you. Thank you. Let's move to Rachel. Yes. Hello. Hi, hi folks. My name is Rachel Lake and I'm a lawyer at Waterloo Region and Community Legal Services. So I connected with a group of migrant workers about a year ago and have been successful with four open work permit applications for abused workers. So I was just wondering whether there's any communication between the IRCC department that issues the open work permits for vulnerable workers or like, yeah, I guess just whether there's any communication between between Service Canada and IRCC on that front. So again, it's not really something that I'm well equipped to talk to but that being said, we do communicate with IRCC through our internal channels whenever we receive tips, leads and allegations and likewise, when they receive applications for open work permits they communicate with us as well so that we can take the appropriate steps. But there are limits in terms of what information can be shared and again, I'm not in the best position to talk to this unfortunately because it's not really my area of expertise. All right, so people with their hands raised we will come back to Q&A session but I do want to shift to our partners in the project talking about it and this may bring up some of the concerns and questions that we have as well. So for now, you can leave your hands raised and I'll keep you in the queue for now. We have Stacy Gumm as who coordinates No One is Illegal Health Acts Chewbook Tooks Migrant Workers program which is engaged in outreach, direct support, public education and advocacy in solidarity with migrant workers throughout Nova Scotia. So far this year the program has reached well over 1,300 migrant workers in the province. No One is Illegal is a member of Nova Scotia's Migrant Worker Rights Working Group. You can go ahead, Stacy. Thank you, it's good to see everyone. So yes, No One is Illegal Health Acts Chewbook Tooks Migrant Workers program provides confidential support to migrant workers throughout Nova Scotia on issues such as violence in the workplace, unpaid wages, workplace injuries and threats that workers face in being sent back home. And we have supported migrant workers to make complaints to the ESTC tip line in the past and we've made complaints on workers' behalf when requested. So one benefit of the ESTC tip line is that it provides an anonymous way for migrant workers to make a complaint. And because migrant workers are tied to one employer, this puts a lot of power in the hands of the employer and often migrant workers fear speaking out due to risks of reprisals, including being fired sent back to their home country and not being able to return back to the seasonal agricultural workers program to Canada. So anonymity is often important for workers. However, if a migrant worker does make a complaint, this will not lead to rectification of the issue in their specific situation. For example, if there's a situation of unpaid wages, this would not result in them receiving wages. That would be more through the provincial labor standards. Moreover, as we've spoken about, they would not be informed the results of the claim or complaint, rather. And nor details such as whether an investigation is underway. So that is a big limitation. I'm going to share a bit of what we've heard from workers around the tip line and investigation process. So we've heard that when on-site visits do happen, the employer has selected who will speak to the investigators. Visits happen during the daytime when migrant workers are working and therefore not available to speak with investigators. Many reports have been made by migrant workers about a specific employer, but they have not seen a result from those complaints. We've heard employers being notified in advance of on-site visits and fixing it so that it seems better at the time that the investigation takes place. And we've also heard of migrant workers being threatened and coerced to speak positively of the employer. There's also a number of concerns that we have as well. So for a period during the pandemic, on-site visits were not happening. And we know that migrant workers have been disproportionately impacted during the pandemic. Thousands across the country have become ill with COVID-19 and a number have also died from COVID-19. And one major concern, which I'll just talk about briefly is a lack of confidentiality during on-site visits. And really the only way to ensure anonymity is for workers to leave a complaint online anonymously or over the phone anonymously. So there are risks for confidentiality during on-site visits. And I'll follow up about that later directly. And also penalties are rarely imposed and in most cases they're not severe. So in 2019, only three employers were suspended from the program through this investigation process. When suspensions did happen, in most cases it was only for up to two years. And in 2019, 51 employers were fined. When they were fined, it was often also for a very low amount from $100 to $3,000. And just to give an idea of scope, in 2016, I understand that there were 1,600, sorry, 16,000 employers who received positive labor market impact assessments. That's a document that's needed to hire migrant workers. So in conclusion, the ESDC tip line is one of the tools available to migrant workers who are experiencing abuse in the workplace. However, if the aim is to protect migrant worker rights, it appears that it's falling short. So there is a need for greater transparency. For example, having information on employers who had complaints made against them public and also the results of those complaints. If a labor market impact assessment is revoked from the employer, it's important to guarantee that the migrant worker receives an open work permit to be able to find employment elsewhere. And we're also joined other organizations across the country and advocating for full and permanent immigration status for migrants, including migrant workers. This would ensure that migrant workers are able to exercise the same rights as all other workers. And that includes being able to easily move to another employer if they're experiencing abuse. Current, the current avenues that exist, including the vulnerable worker open work permit are limited. For example, it's quite labor intensive, not very accessible to workers to do on their own, for example. So yeah, those are the reflections that we wanted to share to me. Thank you. Thank you for sharing. We can definitely bring those issues into the discussion as we carry forward with it. I did want to move on to a reminder that yes, there will be more time for questions shortly, but first I want to welcome Fannie Restrepo-Belkowski from the Center of Migrant Workers Solidarity in Simcoe to share her experiences if she has any. Fannie has been an important voice for temporary foreign workers and a really critical voice in these webinars. So I wanted to have time and space for her to share her experiences with the tip line and if she has anything else to add to this important conversation. Thank you. Can you hear me? Yes. I just have three report points I wanted to ask is we're running into, if you are inspecting for payroll there's a situation where it looks perfectly legal when you go in, it looks as if they've worked 40 hours and they have all the paperwork, but then the rest of the pay after 40 hours is all cash. And so workers tell me on different farms that's just how it's done. So then when they try to get benefits they look as if they only worked 40 hours. So that's one question. Or I'm wondering too with WSIB, I don't know if you get involved if there's in the WSIB case, but when suddenly there's an investigation then the employer then fixes things, didn't pay during a period when there was an accident, the worker became distressed, wanted to go home. And then when WSIB comes in then suddenly he's paid for that period and it all looks great in the books. The bookkeeping if you look would look just great and it would make the worker look as if he's a liar and would make his WSIB case look weak. So those are two points I had and then I just had two other comments. If you are interviewing workers online in video you may see everybody on the screen but the door might be open in the background. So the workers just are so terrified of never being asked back that they're terrified they probably won't tell you how it really is if even if you see everybody on screen there may be a door where someone could hear them. And the final thing too is with open work permit I don't know if you ever deal with this but with open work permit it's great if we can get it but then when we go you have to give your resume you have to give where did you get your experience driving a forklift and so you can't name the employer that was abusive where you were for 13 years. So those are some of the scenarios we have. Really appreciate the feedback in relation to those elements. Unfortunately there's not much we can do about situations which as you described where the workers aren't prepared to advise us as to what's going on. For example, if an employer is in the room where the door is open as you described it is one of the reasons why we do try to get out and conduct our interviews in person when we can but it's not always possible either due to the situation with COVID-19 or what have you so or an outbreak on the site or et cetera. With relation to WSIB unfortunately there's not much we can do about how they conduct their investigations. They are not a federal department they would be provincial and unfortunately there's nothing we could do about that part of it. Thank you for your question Ella and we're going to go on to Juhi Aladua. Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you for this great presentations. Pretty clear, pretty nice. But I'm telling you I'm a former migrant farm worker and I'm telling you about two years ago I attended a civil session and you know what? The person from the government officials you know what she said? They never ever use the hotline. Why? In earlier I heard that you have made great strides in making language you know the taking of that barrier language barrier. Right now about 200 languages available. That's great, that's great, that's beautiful. But the real fear, the real fear from the workers are not being addressed. What is the plan B? For example, here's a simple example where we talk of some people have been talking about the vulnerable workers permit. That is a bandaid yes but it's a dead end. At the end of the one year open work when what happens the worker goes hits a brick wall what happens to the worker? That's a dead end that's a trap for workers. That's not taking out the barriers that's creating more headache for a worker. When what are the barriers that the workers facing? What are the barriers? When will we address the barriers? And that is what really languages one yes but that's not the main barrier. At the end of the day the workers come here to put bread on the table to support their family. What is there to guarantee that they do a fair day's work in Canada and get a fair day's pay? What is there? And that is what we are feeling to address. So many times I'm heard from you, we cannot answer that, we cannot answer. Why? Because we try to do things in isolation and we know that all the problems that migrant workers face, the 20 justices that I feel, they are every, every, every level of government. Why are we having a session and we are in isolation from the other stakeholders, the other parties and we don't have our whole system is stuck against migrant workers. When are we going to get all the cards on the table? That is the challenge I have. And how can we address that? That is my question. I'll leave it as that. The only question I have for you. Hi Dave, everybody I'm here. I'm really sorry. It's busy, busy here. We have some Caribbean workers coming and they wanted to talk to me. So I am really sorry. So do you want me to still explain about the cases I had here at the center? Yes. I think just in one, in one quick moment, I'm not certain if anyone wants to respond to the last, the last, we have Connie. Yeah. Oh, you're muted. No, no, I'm not going to respond to Gabriel's question, but I want Mark and Jonathan to respond to Gabriel if they're, if you have a response before moving on to Fannie. Because I don't want that question kind of left hanging and yeah, very, thank you. Thanks Connie. So Mark or Jonathan, anything to say in response? So thank you again for sharing your feedback. I think it hasn't fallen on deaf ears. I'm only speaking from an integrity point of view and what we can do and what I can say is that we're doing what we can to address some of these issues but some of these are things to deal with regulations and policy, which have also have been heard by our policy folks and our regulation folks and without, because I can't speak on behalf of them but I do know that having my own experience in attending other sessions like this, such as through the migrant worker support network, I can assure you that ESCC is working hard to address a lot of the frustrations that you guys have communicated to us today. And like with us today isn't just Mark and I, we also have some other service candidate colleagues who also work in the operation side of things who are hearing your feedback and will be taking it back to our managers and directors of some more of the feedback that we're hearing and how we can improve and change our process and make it better. Okay, and now Fanny, thank you for, thank you for pausing and thank you for prioritizing workers at the center. So take it away. In the same area we had, I called the tip line twice and at the beginning of the, in April or May, some workers from Jamaica came to the office and they were complaining that the employer was deducting some wages that the employer was not supposed to deduct. So, and the housing conditions were not, there was no social distancing and the housing condition was deplorable. So I called the tip line and within about two weeks Service Canada, I think went to the, the, the farm and I think the farm has been audited by Service Canada. So the workers call me very happy stating, listen, someone came over here and we think is Service Canada. So I haven't heard from the workers yet but probably it's going to be a long process for Service Canada to investigate but that was a, it was really successful and I encourage everyone to, if you guys see any abuse or someone, a worker complains because it could be one worker that has the courage to complain and has no fear. So if you, everyone, if you have a worker that has a problem, please call the tip line. I had another farm where the workers were not able to come out to come shopping. The farmers set up a store in the, in, like at the farm and now the workers are coming to town because I think these workers are being affected mentally while they are in these farms for five, six, seven months with no way out. So any farm where the workers are not being able to come out, please call the tip line. I encourage everyone to do it, please because it's affecting the workers mentally when you are stuck in a farm for such a long time. So it's been very successful and thank you for the service and, you know, everybody working on behalf of the workers, they need us. Thank you so much, Fanny, for sharing stories and it's good to hear that the complaints do move through the system. It's important to note too that as partners or as people providing support to migrant workers, there is the, because the process of reporting a tip is anonymous and can be done by voicemail as well, it is possible to help with moving a complaint from a worker to a service provider and then that service provider forwarding the tip along as just a suggestion for like adding that extra layer of anonymity to the process. So taking as much information as you can from the worker and then calling the tip in yourself to further that anonymity in the process. I wanted to get to Eduardo's question. I know, Mike, you're next in line with the hands, but Eduardo, did you want to speak to what you wrote in the chat slash ask a question and Mike will get to immediately after. Sure, thank you so much and thanks for the presentation Mark and Jonathan. I work for a network of occupational health clinics. So we have some experience trying to, I guess promote and look at the Ministry of Labor's kind of similar in theory reporting number for their call center. So we kind of experienced working with workers who might have occupational health and safety concerns or even injuries and looking at how they report and so there's a lot of very similar themes. So I think I put in the chat a bit about the importance of how, especially for those in-person inspections or worker interviews, how the whole process is explained to workers. I think that's so fundamental because when we were working with the Ministry of Labor early days about their inspections, there was a lot of work that had to be done about basically ensuring that their inspectors were trained to understand kind of the context in which these workers are facing that Gabriel has really well pointed out so that sensitivity is really at the forefront of this whole thing. I do imagine, I'm not at all surprised that the in-person interviews don't tend to be very, worker or workers are not so forthcoming sometimes because we encountered even, the threshold for a worker to speak out is so high because of the fear of losing their job. So we encountered even workers who were injured, like injuries that could actually put them into serious situations of being able to be welcomed back to the program if their injuries get worse than their screen back home and they don't even come back. There's even reluctance in those levels of workers to speak out and what we found in terms of the reporting to the Ministry of Labor is it was often workers who didn't even wanna go back to that farm anymore. It was so high the risk that they were basically going to report and throw away the thinking that, well, I'm probably not gonna be asked here but things are so bad that I don't even wanna be here anymore. So it's really a challenge to lower the threshold because we're really talking about decent work, safe work for workers, not to a point where they're just so as exacerbated that they're willing to lose their job and opportunity. So I know it's a challenge. There's no easy solution for that but I do think then training for inspectors, the process explained. So I think that if your first touch base, if the first time a worker's hearing about this process is when the inspector arrives on the farm, I'm very kind of reluctant to think that a lot of workers will speak out. So it's to say maybe that's the first touch point and I know that obviously all your inspectors are not necessarily gonna be out on any farm twice or three times, I can understand staff and resources but maybe it's envisioning about a first touch based on that farm to say, this is the process. Think about it, this is how I ensure you your safety, your confidentiality and then contact me on your own time or some sort of follow-up process so that they're not having to make a decision to participate on the spot with them, maybe first time engaging with the government of Canada person, maybe first time thinking about complaining. So you're kind of catching people to have to make that decision that they're thinking could jeopardize their employment on the spot, right? So I think that's just some things to consider but as Gabriel noted, I think a lot of this is so attached to just the precarious employment situation that people are in, right? And so we're asking them to report, we're asking them to be the drivers of improving their conditions when at the other end, what kind of protections are we tangibly providing them, right? If not, it's just them risking for decent work in Canada that should be insured by, you know, governments, but yeah, complicated for sure, but. Thanks, Eduardo. Do we have a response from Mark or Jonathan? In terms of, yes, the sort of like contacts with inspectors and potential for that not being the only contact the inspectors on the farm. Yeah, we definitely appreciate the comments. I know that a lot of our inspectors will provide temporary foreign workers with their cards so that the temporary foreign workers can reach out to the inspector on their own time to discuss. We haven't found, as you might imagine, a lot of uptake on that, but you know, it's definitely one of the things that our inspectors do do to, you know, try and make it so that the TFWs are comfortable talking with us. Thank you. Okay, Mike. It's pretty clear that a lot of the workers are apprehensive to come forward. And when you're doing your interviews for the inspection, they might be apprehensive because of anonymity or confidentiality concerns. Is there any potential to use the locations of outreach organizations as a secure space for workers to come forward so that they don't have to worry about the employer being there or other workers that, you know, might not agree. And they will have more anonymity in one of our offices if they can come in and you guys can do your interview either online. You know, they can have an individual space with a computer there that you can talk to them online or you could even conduct the interviews in person at one of our locations, the locations of an outreach organization. Is that anything that you would consider or is the logistics kind of a, you know, would it be too hard to organize? I can't speak to that specific situation where we would be on, for example, one of the NGOs, my workers for organizations, but I do know that in the past, service kind of inspectors have interviewed temporary form workers at service cannabis centers without employers being around or at various other neutral points. But again, I can't speak for every inspection or however investigator handles their, however inspector handles their work. But I do know that has been done in the past certainly with making use of sites that are off the employer's work site to interview TFWs. If the TFWs come forward to the inspector and asked to be interviewed. To move to a few questions from the chat, what happens when an employer continuously commits infractions and can't provide a reason? Well, just the panel. So for example, if it's the first infraction first for a lot of elements, there's a table that's actually set out in immigration refugee and protection regulations. If anybody's interested, I believe it's table two, but I don't quote me on that, but it actually lays out how we calculate out the amounts that we the non-compliance, how many people are affected, what the type of effect is, all those different elements. Did the employer take any, all of those elements? So I would certainly encourage anybody who's curious to go and take a look at the regulations. It's, it doesn't go into the specifics as to how we would determine it, but it does lay out how it's calculated. So in the event that an employer has previously committed an infraction, then the consequences escalate, both in terms of duration of any bans, if they receive one, the amount of any administrative monetary penalties, et cetera. So all that is on there and it does definitely escalate as it goes on. As I mentioned, one of the common justifications that a lot of employers have used in the past that we are certainly working on limiting their use of, which is part of the reason why we're doing employer outreach and other steps to educate employers on their responsibility. An error of interpretation made a good faith where effective workers were subsequently compensated for any errors on the employer's part. So for example, let's say an employer underpays a TFW, then if they use that justification, they would have to compensate them for the amount that they shorted them. If that justification is used, then that justification cannot be used again in the future for the same type of situation. So absolutely, we do take a look at the employer's past history when figuring out whether or not there will be an administrative monetary penalty and calculating that and also whether or not they'll be... Thank you. And I'm gonna take one more question from the chat and then move on to Izwani. Do you have any cultural outreach workers who can build that trust and dialogue? Like are there workers that aren't inspectors that are getting the word out to start that relationship? Or is it currently just inspectors that are sort of building the sort of... I can't speak to that exactly, but one of the recent pilots that was run, as I'm sure several of you are aware of was the migrant worker support network in British Columbia, where Service Canada brought together multiple different migrant worker support organizations, employer associations, migrant workers, academics, different levels of government. So for example, provincial government, foreign consulates and others into a symposium where methods of improving things that we could do both in terms of educating migrant workers, you migrant worker support organizations in terms of reaching out and providing assistance to workers, educating everyone on the integrity and the nature of the program. So we've certainly done some steps in that. I'm not sure where that is at. That is a program that's managed by our skills and employment branch of our policy side. So we're not really in a good position to talk about it. In terms of from our perspective, we're often the ones that go out and actually speak with the temporary farm workers just due to the nature of our work. So we do try to make sure what's going on, how they're helping, what they're doing, et cetera, when we go on site. But again, we do appreciate that to a certain extent, there may be a, well, there is a lack of trust, even though we're doing everything we can to assist them. Thank you. Eswani, did you wanna ask another question? Yes, thank you, Ayvat. Okay, so thank you so much, Mark and Jonathan for the information. I am from Mexico and I work on the ground with a lot of workers, migrant workers. And sometimes it's, I think difficult for us to see that we have this deep line and there is still a lot of ways that this deep line is falling short to help workers like Stacy Gomez stated. So I don't know how long, like you say, Mark, there is a document, but how many complaints does it take to really change something in a farm, right? So on the employer is usually his overspent is working with workers. So there is also a change on it because it seems to change immediately. I know even like in a course of months. So if a worker is here, going through these difficult conditions, housing conditions or healthy or health kind of that is being put in their health, job provides, it doesn't seem that it's changing that quickly. It takes months, maybe next year or maybe it doesn't happen, right? I know it's a process and it takes a process. And like I heard that there is some fines that is going to the farmers, but farmers, $100 is nothing, $3,000 is nothing. They can pay it in a time. So that's one question. And I think that may kind of asking it again, but it's just my point of view. The other part that I'm thinking it's very hard, like you say, to build trust between you and the workers. So do you go, when you go on the side, do you take an interpreter that is cultural familial or is the same culture than the person that is working there? For example, if you have Mexicans in the farm, you take an interpreter with you, the inspectors that is from the same culture. Then it's more comfortable to talk with. It's something that you have considered, it's something that you do, it's something that is happening. And the other part is like, how do you plan to build a relationship? I know it's hard because I work on the ground, but it has always been nice to have a cultural related person, right? And that is not on the farm. And I find it very difficult because I think somebody put in the chat that if you kind of say, we're going to go there, there is no inspection. I feel like, and I have heard this from the workers and I will do it myself, right? Like if I know that my friend is coming to visit me, I will clean my house. But if nobody tells me that he's coming and they just show up at my door, my house is how it is. These are just my points of view. And I think that aligns with what Jaylen was asking about in terms of the interviews. Like are they conducted in the workers' first language? So when we do conduct our interviews, unfortunately the reality is our inspectors are not fluent in every language that we would go out and inspect on. We do bring, essentially, we use a telephone service called CanTalk, which provides access to, I can't remember, it's a couple hundred different languages for translation. So the translation is basically handled by, through CanTalk, so that we can interview the temporary farm workers in a language that they understand if that's what they request. I mean, I interview them in their preferred language, be that English, French, Spanish, or whatever it is, depending upon where they're from. And so we always make sure we offer them that choice during the interview, because there's a lot of nuance and a lot of important elements that can be missed if we try to interview them in their second or third language or even fourth language, depending upon the situation. So we do make use of translation services when we are on site to do those interviews. Unfortunately, the reality of it is that, and I totally understand about having somebody who is from a particular culture can make a world of difference. The reality of it is that we don't have access to those reasons. I just wanted to acknowledge Vilma's comments in the chat. I think the open work permit issues are ones that we should continue to discuss. And I'm hoping to bring that conversation further in these webinars potentially. But the issues are certainly related between the tip line and the potential for the open work permit. But I understand that that's not necessarily in Mark and Jonathan's wheelhouse. So thank you for your comments. And we've taken note of them for future sessions. We have just a few minutes left. Claudio, is your question quick? Perhaps. Yes, I did try. Okay. Okay, so I appreciate the information provided by Mark. My question is to do with the final report done after the investigation. You, Mark, mentioned that this is a confidential report between Service Canada and the employer. But I'm thinking, is the migrant worker interested to know the final result? Let's say I make a phone call through that secret line and I want to know what is the result of the investigation. Can you provide support? Thank you. John, do you know the answer to this one? So like a copy of the report that they had submitted. Like the tip that led to the inspection or the final report after the investigation has been done. The later. The latter. Unfortunately, we don't provide any final reports of investigation to the foreign worker. Because of, again, it is limited and because of privacy considerations, it is limited between Service Canada and Canada. I will just jump in here. We don't actually provide the final inspection report itself to the employer either. If, you know, what the employer will receive is they'll receive a letter either saying that they were found satisfactory or they will receive a letter outlining the consequences of their non-compliance. So as far as it goes, they either get a letter stating that they were satisfactory or they get a letter called a Notice of Final Determination that stating that they were non-compliant. So, but how we can improve that? Like do we have to call our member of parliament and try to change your policies? You know, we are trying to help these migrant workers and if Fanny mentioned, you need courage to call and she encouraged everybody to call if you have problem. But how can you know if my problem is resolved if you don't even know the final result? Yeah, it's certainly a challenge. The sort of the echo chamber of the, or the lack of an echo chamber I suppose of the process. It's good that there are service candidate reps here hearing this and hopefully they can carry that forward. Unfortunately, we have arrived at time. If there are any quick closing remarks from our speakers, now's the time. Mark or Jonathan? Anything to- Thank you very much for having us today. As we mentioned, one of our main goals is to try and improve education and outreach both on the worker side and also on the employer side. We wanna make sure that employers understand what their responsibilities are and we want workers to know what their rights and protections are and that we aren't here to try and help them. So absolutely thank you very much for having us today. Thank you so much. Any last words from Stacy or Fanny? Just thanks for inviting us to speak. It's good to hear just the concerns that are being raised and also perspective from service candidate around how things work on that end. Thank you. Thank you. And Connie, anything to wrap up for me? I think Mark wants to say something to Mark. No. Oh, it's not Mark, sorry. Jonathan. I was looking at Jonathan there. No, I echo what Mark said. Again, thank you so much for this opportunity and we're always open to hearing more about your experiences and feedback and we will make sure to bring it to the right people and bring it to the right tables for the right people too, who can move things forward. Thank you. And thank you so much, Jonathan and Mark, for coming and sharing your presentation and just being part of it to you, to Stacy and Fanny. And to all that are here participating in the conversation and just wanted to say that one, thank you so much. And also to assure you that this is just the beginning of more conversations with Service Canada and other government departments. As you all know, we are funded by Service Canada, by the government to provide support and services to the migrant workers since December until the present. So the relationship, the current relationship and the community partnership with Service Canada is very new, but we bring with us the issues and critique of the different processes and hear the complaints of the workers over the years of our working with them and over the years of our advocacy. And this moment where we have this support and funding and I think we are in the same goal in providing support and services to the workers that I think we are finding a common ground on how we can continue doing this and being more open and transparent and be frank in putting forward the questions and critique that we have keeping in mind that we are not here to antagonize and we are not here as enemies, but rather we are open to finding solutions and further collaboration in addressing these issues and challenges. So I hope that we have more opportunities to be able to do this. I heard Gabriel's point, I share that and so many others. And I hope that over the course of time, we would be really addressing some of the root causes and some of the questions, hard questions that we have had over the years. So again, thank you so much and more webinars and conversations like this coming up. Thank you. I've put in the chat a link to subscribe to the Migra Justice Cairo's email list where we will be posting information about future webinars. We have a few cooking up as we speak. So we look forward to getting the word out about that. And thank you again to all of our speakers and thank you so much for all of your thoughtful questions and comments through this webinar. Please take good care through the day. And when we have a copy of this webinar in Spanish, we will disseminate it to our partners and we will have information through our website and social media as well. So thank you so much and I hope you all have a lovely day.