 So but the next talk I can't introduce I'm not fit of that for so for that. I call Jacob Applebaum on stage I I want to Introduce this group by telling a little story This Group of people was introduced to me This is cage and they were introduced to me by a gentleman who came to a talk that I gave in Switzerland And it was a really intense experience because when I met this gentleman He was very clearly the only Muslim in the room. He had a beard. He was dressed in such a way that it signified He was not with the rest of the Swiss people in this room in the same way visually And I remember speaking with him and he said, you know, thank you for the things that you say about drone attacks Thank you for talking about surveillance about marginalized communities Thank you for doing that because a Jewish-American person saying that Brings that into a different audience. It allows other people to hear it and we want to get the message out to everyone and I remember saying well sure I'd be very very happy to keep doing that actually and I think we have to do that We have essentially a moral duty to talk about the things that are taking place and He said well, I want to show you an email from someone It was a spiritual advisor of Mine and he was killed by a drone and he showed me an email of a person who is known to have been assassinated by the American government Actually Obama himself is known to have signed off on killing this person and he was assassinated without a trial And he was a US citizen though that doesn't actually matter It's important to note that you can figure out who this person is There's only a few of them and I remember what happened. I actually took a step back Physically and then I thought my god with WikiLeaks with things that have happened with Julian and myself and with other people Everyone else takes a step back. So I took a step forward And I shook his hand and I apologized and we've actually been friends since then and so I wanted very much for these guys multiple times to be able to come to the Congress and talk about what they have experienced because this is a community who is under threat these are people that are doing good work and I think it is important for a pluralistic society like the one that CCC represents in fact to Stand in solidarity with these guys not to give in to fear to recognize that we actually are all humans And we have this in common and that we can work together and it's not just about cryptography It's also about politics So some of the people that are talking today are people who have literally been in Guantanamo Bay without a trial without evidence Basically anything you can imagine a free society having these guys have suffered things that you would expect to not happen in such a free society And so with that said I want to introduce Mozambique who was a Guantanamo prisoner and he cannot be here today because the British government After he was released from Guantanamo Bay actually seized his passport and he cannot travel here from the United Kingdom So we have to use video in order to actually have him speak today So this is a person who is a victim on the war on terror and he's also been jailed and in fact this quote on the shirt sometimes knowing too much Can be a curse Was a tweet that he made before he was arrested in the UK again on trumped-up charges and again the case collapsed So this if we get the video up here almost Well, it'll come in a second This person is in some ways the canonical example of someone who is completely innocent And it isn't to say that if you were guilty in some way that it would justify any of the things that have happened But having him speak here is the quantum hand of the NSA doing this to us Probably not but having him be able to speak here. He should be able to come in person There are lots of political prisoners around the world of different stripes And the fact that he cannot travel here is a fundamental violation of his human rights But nonetheless the internet allows us to give voice to other people. So in this case, I'm hoping It's okay So I have the great pleasure of knowing my son beg very well and hopefully I'll talk about him for a couple of seconds While we get the the connection that working because we got a room full of techies and of course we can't get FaceTime working so typical really Moise them is a very very close friend of mine I'm very I consider myself very lucky to have got to know him since he was released from Guantanamo Bay. Here we go Are we ready? We are we are ready Well, first of all, it's my absolute great pleasure to be addressing you remotely From Birmingham where I live and was that where I was born to you in Hamburg it's Quite bizarre, but actually the first time I was ever in any kind of a video call or video conference Was from the background detention facility where I was held by the Americans in 2002 and I had bizarrely an interrogation Conducted by a video link It might seem implausible now in the sense that The technology was perhaps Not as advanced as it is now that people can have it in their homes But back then I was shocked that here in the middle of the Afghan Mountains the Americans had bought these fancy computers and were trying to get me interrogated and getting me interrogated by members of the CIA and the FBI right across the United to the United States of America where they had deemed me and hundreds of other people caught up in the war on terror as Enemy aliens enemy combatants unlawful belligerence any type of name you want to Designate somebody with other than the ones that they deserve. I human beings and Essentially, this is what has happened in the war on terror that people have been defined according to codes That we thought that we'd done away with that things like Nuremberg things like The United Nations conventions against torture and cruel in human degrading treatment would never happen again yet The reality is in 2015 Guantanamo is still open. I was just recently with a friend of mine called Shakir Amir who Unbelievably has been returned to the United Kingdom after 14 years of Detention without charge or trial held on the basis of secret evidence that he could never challenge Kept away from his children would included a child He'd never seen and the others so young that they don't even remember their father now One would think that perhaps this is the sort of thing that goes on Inside deepest darkest Africa or Asia or some country where the rule of law simply doesn't apply but this was between two Parties known to the world as the bastions of democracy and freedom and human rights the British government who were Complicit in keeping him and me and many others there and this that United States of America that has invaded Numerous countries in the name of protecting human rights if it wasn't so serious It would be laughable But the reality and the truth of the matter is that these are some of just some of the measures that are available to the governments Against those people Not just terrorists. We all understand that there's a need to defend defend against any terrorism But this goes way beyond that because nowadays as you'll be a well aware Everybody is called a terrorist if you can see for example in the British Parliament The British Prime Minister David Cameron actually said to the opposition leader. That is the leader of the Labour Party Jeremy Corbyn that you and your party are a threat to national security and he even called him a An apologist a sympathizer for terrorism So if that can be said to the leader of the opposition party in the United Kingdom who is prospectively the Former the future Prime Minister of this country possibly Then what do the rest of us? Where do we fit in all of this and the laws and the measures that have been meted out against us? Include a series on a raft of legislations, which I just want to explain to you Have affected all of us Who have been calling for accountability and essentially this is the price of dissent? The price of dissent isn't simply that you get vilified in the press as we do quite regularly The price of dissent means essentially that you can and will be detained without charge or trial You will be subjected to cruel inhuman and degrading treatment. You will be tortured. You will be have Meaningless communication with your family i.e. that letters that are sent to you By your family members might get you six months or a year after they were sent It means that you will be detained once you are released You will be detained at airports and entry ports of the country under the Schedule 7 terrorism Act Which essentially means you can be held for up to nine hours at a port of entry or exit in the country Like what happened with David Miranda the partner of Glenn Greenwald when he was bringing over important information Which was seized by the British authorities under the name of national security, which of course Glenn Greenwald and David Miranda had nothing to do with and Essentially what happens is that these laws and measures they may say they are Targeting a minority within a minority i.e. Muslims who happen to be committed to terrorism But in fact it goes on as you have seen to target the Muslim community and then to target Everybody who dissents as I said that you can see in the case of Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party and anybody else who Dissents that they are deemed to be terrorists one of the latest legislations that the The home secretary of this country has said That this is that is Eliminated after a multitude of laws that have been passed in this country Now says that in that a snooper's charter under the new investigative powers bill announced by the The home secretary that the internet browsing history of everyone in the UK Everyone will be stored for up to a year by the security services and they will be Given access to the lists of visited or websites Without any warrant this essentially means if you were to translate this into non Technical terms that they could enter your home and take away all of your belongings and every document You've ever had without any warrant without any charge sheet without any arrest without any evidence at all and Simply keep it in their custody for up to a year or more and you can do anything about it Simply because this exists In cyberspace this is what the government will be arguing and this is where we've got to because Sadly people have been silent. They've remained At best silent at worst giving it approval when they saw these lists of Law after law being passed that Exclusively applied to people from the Muslim community and just to give you an example When I came back from Guantanamo after three years of detention without trial Within days my passport was seized. I was Subjected to something called the royal prerogative and that is for those of you who don't understand Something in our democracy in Britain where the Queen decides With the power invested into the home secretary That your passport can be taken away from you from an unlimited period of time and It's based upon secret evidence evidence that you could never challenge in court So mine was taken away and the passport of others for several years. I challenged it eventually I got my passport back, but not did I travel to any country and return to the UK except that I was stopped under Schedule 7 of the terrorism act which meant essentially I could be detained without charge again at the ports of entry and exit in Britain and Even when I was going on visits to give evidence at Trials and tribunals like for example the koala lump or war crimes tribunal where both Bush and Blair were charged with crimes against humanity Whether it was going to the European Parliament to give evidence about rendition programs with the British and the Americans and other countries had been complicit in the torture and the False imprisonment of others or whether it was going to countries like Pakistan Libya Egypt Tunisia and even Syria Where I uncovered that there was? Intelligence cooperation between the British government the American government and all of the regimes of those countries where eventually the Arab Spring erupted In all of those cases Being stopped at ports of entry and exit of the country was a matter of routine for people like me And of course eventually they just decided that this is too much and after a return trip from South Africa They decided to take my passport again away for the second time in two years without any legal process without any explanation without any Ability to see the evidence that they're using to take this away from you, but it goes beyond that. I was then again arrested because of an accusation of being involved in supplying Finance to the To sit to people in Syria and essentially this was that I provided a an electricity generator to the Syrian rebels and As a result of this I was raided I was by 150 police officers My children scattered throughout several homes because my home was in uninhabitable with all the Police around it. I was taken to a maximum security prison held there as a category A prisoner For seven months only at the end of it to be declared innocent by the very people who took me in But even after that it didn't end during the period of time that I was in prison My assets were frozen under a terrorism asset freeze cage the organization that you will be hearing much more from Had the accounts closed my own accounts were closed my wife's account was closed my children including my 11-year-old son's accounts were closed again without any recourse to justice and Essentially, I've tried to figure out in my head. Why? What did I ever do to these people to these governments ever in my life? I've never been to America, but America has been to me It came and took me from my home in Pakistan in 2002 and took me to the world's most notorious prison and Since that point they have never shown in any way how I've harmed them except for one way Seeking justice and accountability and if seeking justice and accountability They think will harm them then I'm going to continue to do that Because nobody is above the law and nobody is beyond accountability and Essentially when you have found time and again that your own government has been complicit in the abuse the physical and mental and psychological abuse of Citizens of its own country and beyond if you are able to do so you are duty bound to ensure That you uncover every truth though they despise it and that is the price of dissent that we have been paying for the past Ten years things have got as you've seen From bad to worse, but in this process though we have made enemies as far as some governments are concerned as we know People are not supposed to be afraid and frightened of their governments Governments are supposed to be afraid and frightened of their people and in this regard. We have gained so many Allies and supporters that it's hard to count them anymore Cage has gone on from being just an organization that solely used the campaign for the rights of Guantanamo prisoners To an organization now that stands up for the rights of everyone and when I say everyone everyone that is being designated In the so-called war on terror as some sort of an extremist without any legal process at all So essentially now Just before I finish What's really important is that? We are in a new era and in an era where most of us don't even understand Where we're going to fit in all of this. We don't know what will happen tomorrow. We don't know with the technology that is Moving on as as as we speak We don't know where it's going to take us But something I just want to give you an idea just to to recognize for all of you and I think it's very relevant to you during one of my interrogations in the Bagram detention facility, which is in Afghanistan It was a place set up by the Americans shortly after they invaded Afghanistan in 2002. I Was asked by the CIA for a password for a an encryption program That I was using and at that time it was called PGP pretty good private privacy. I Was new in it. I hadn't understood its detailed Operation system. It is something that I thought I was introduced to and I'd used it a few times The police in Britain while I was in the Bagram's dissension facility Raided my home and they took my computer. They passed on that information to the Americans in Bagram In Bagram, I was approached by the CIA and the FBI and told that if you don't give us this past password then Some terrible things may happen to you and let me just explain to you what sort of things were happening in Bagram So you've got a net you've got a flavor of the type of place. It was in Bagram, I came across the case of a man called Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libya and it's so important because That's the reason you'll find in a moment Why we are where we are today? The CIA said to me if you don't cooperate with us We will send you to Egypt just like we did to Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libya who they claimed was a senior member of Al Qaeda They had in fact sent him to Egypt in Egypt He was tortured under the intelligence chief of Hosni Mubarak the president into giving a false confession That false confession was that he was a member of Al Qaeda the first falsity The second falsity is that they were working with Saddam Hussein on obtaining weapons of mass destruction this information was taken by Colin Powell who was the US Secretary of State at the time presented to the United Nations Security Council as Credible evidence to invade Iraq and that's exactly what they did the rest as we say is history So it was during this period that they'd asked me and told me that if you don't cooperate with us We will send you either to Egypt or to Syria as we had done with Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libya And it all began with looking at the documentation on the laptop of mine that they had seized They included innocent pictures of my family which they waved in front of me and said that if you do not cooperate with us What do you think will happen to your children? Do you think you will ever see them again and while they were doing that they were the sounds of a woman screaming in the In the cage next door that I was led to believe was my wife being tortured and So you see this is why it's so important that the encryption programs the various ones that cage ourselves we are trying now to learn To use and to implement in our daily lives isn't because we have anything to hide It's because we are and we have experience of those people Who are now mastered in the arts of torture and abuse? That whatever information they use and they get hold of they will use it against you Even if it was the most innocent thing. I remember there was a picture of the Pope that had been Cashed in my memory That had been from a BBC website and when they seized my laptop They said why have you got a picture of the Pope here? Is this because you're planning some nefarious activity against it and so that in the end Turned out to be one of the ludicrous reasons why I remained in Guantanamo for all those periods But finally I'd like to thank you all of you for listening for taking the time to listen to the work of cage and for Supporting us and giving me the opportunity to explain what pipe price we've had to pay for descent. Thank you very much Excellent, so that was Mars and beg Very good friend of mine who actually introduced me to my wife. So I've got a lot to thank him for My name's Kerry Boulevard and I'm from cage as well I got involved with cage after being held in the UK in Britain under secret evidence and secret trial for two and a Half years six months of that in Belmarsh a high-security prison The case against me was secret I was never given any reason and even though now I've been found innocent To this day. I still don't know what it was I was even accused of in the first place that meant I had spent two years under house arrest and Six months in a high-security prison. I'm sorry. I can't wait for the slides because My son went on for a little bit longer and we're very pushed for time Jacob will tell me off if we run over so After basically a year and a half of living under a control order Which is a form of house arrest where you're not allowed to leave the house except for a couple of hours a day You have to phone the police before you leave you have to phone the police when you return you have to Have a tag on your ankle Basically the sorts of stuff that you hear about in in countries like Burma I after a year and a half of that I'd had enough I couldn't take it anymore And I just decided that the best thing for me was to abscond to make a run for it and leave the country and Koshun you gonna get this fixed To to leave and to go on the run and to go into hiding You can see up there a lovely wanted picture. Have you seen this man? That's me when I had hair And in a vest. I don't know why that's there There are some people in this world that weren't built for vests and I'm one of them so Having spent about six weeks on the run. It was major Breaking news at the time you had the Independent review of anti-terrorism legislation Lord Carlisle saying these are dangerous people we have solid intelligence about them But we can't tell you what it is because it's a secret and you can check that up. It's in the Sun He says we have solid intelligence. He'll come up later. Can we move along? I was as I said, I was found innocent and it was because of that experience because of going through it because of feeling it on a first-hand basis myself That I came to be working with cage, but why cage? Why not any other organizations? there are there are plenty of human rights groups out there and My mother who had always been my biggest supporter throughout this whole period Where I was held under secret evidence and secret trial She had always believed in me and when I was in prison She'd gone to these large human rights organizations some of which are represented here and Unfortunately, none of them had been willing to take on my case even though there was secret evidence and clear breaches of due process and the norms of justice that we all understand None of these major human rights organizations were willing to touch it because it was terrorism and you know these cases often look quite bad So it was after I came out that I found out that the only people that were taking on these cases The only people that were speaking out on these cases of due process were cage They took on cases based on principle not on whether they were trendy and you'd be the cause celeb For defending them not because they'd get praise in the media and lorded about in fact cage actively took cases That were unpopular because those are the ones that we need the most It's fundamental that if we do not protect the rights of everybody then really we don't have the rights for anybody Cage began as a website back in those days. It was cage prisoners comm And there's a beautiful quote there from one of our directors talking about the importance of the Internet cage Existed to bypass the mainstream media that weren't talking about what was happening in Guantanamo Bay to get information out there about the people who were held captive and to Give the power back to the the masses and to change the narrative on these cases We've seen that from Guantanamo Bay, especially the the vast vast majority. I think it's Don't hold me to something like 97% of the people that have been Held in Guantanamo Bay have it have been released without charge or without trial My as and beg amongst them shark at army 14 years Who I'll be talking about a bit later on as well and so What we see is that Muslims and the suspect community are the canaries in the mind What happens to them and how things are tested out on them because society at the moment because of fear over terrorism Are more likely to be accepting of these things when it's posed as a terrorism issue and an issue It's not going to be affecting everybody. It's just these these funny brown folk with big beards So when we see What happens to them? Inevitably it happens to the rest of society starting off with activists and dissidents The clear examples of that David Miranda that my as and beg mentioned the lawyers for both Julian Assange and Edward Snowden all have been affected and held under counterterrorism legislation in the UK And it's very important that I bring up those examples I cite those examples Because journalists and lawyers are meant to be two very protected roles in our society two roles that are meant to Hold people to account and when you start trying to put fear into them Then this is a very very dangerous step than a slippery road the BBC a BBC journalist just recently had his Laptop taken off him again under anti-terror legislation. We've seen the Guardian affected by this as well So What we see is that after 14 years of the war on terror are we any safer if we look around the world now and compare it 2001 is there less terrorism? Are we suddenly sleeping better in our beds? I don't think so I think that that's a fairly obvious fact I think if you look at the Empirical evidence the biggest things that have caused people to go towards groups like Al Qaeda and Isis are what? Guantanamo Bay drone strikes illegal detention all of these things that scream of hypocrisy We try to claim the moral high ground and say we're the Western we defend liberties and our actions speak otherwise and that's why cage is necessary to hold the powerful to account and to speak truth to power the Magna Carta, this is a 800-year-old document that is meant to be the basis and foundation of law In Britain and in America. It's actually part of the Constitution in America is enshrined there not so in the UK though And we it's just turned 800 years old and this is them the main article of it. That's still relevant today In Britain especially I Try not to focus too much on Britain's I know we have a very international audience But the focus right now is on British Muslims Accepting British values the British values are this Ideal set that we have to live by and at the same time that we're being told as Muslims in Britain that we're not British enough that we're not We're not following the the set Government line enough they are throwing these things out of the window the From even just from what you heard from wisdom for I've been telling you about secret calls and secret trials You can see that this has gone completely out of the window which leads us to the core processes that cage seeks to uphold So cages about upholding due process as I said before Everybody has the right to a fair trial. Everybody has the right to know what the accusations are against them We need to work towards ending this cycle of violence and breaking it down We didn't get to peace in Northern Ireland by more bombs and more killing We got to peace in Northern Ireland by negotiation and trying to provide justice for all sides and the final thing is empowerment Empowerment by giving a voice to the voiceless giving a voice to people who for so long have not been given the opportunity to speak out So what has been the price of dissent for cage? What have we paid as a price for it? This is a shot Some of the guys that were coming with us to this conference. This is from three days ago This was on their bags when they when they got to To to Hamburg they were stopped by the German authorities for over three hours questioned about this conference Why they were coming here what they were planning to do here and the German authority said we're just doing this because the Brits told us to We we we we we checked out what this what this do not load Stamp means it basically means that the Brits weren't sure whether they were gonna even let us come to this conference And they put this on the bags to say put it on at the last moment when we've decided if we're gonna let them go I think that even the fact that they try to block a simple communication like this says a lot about the the price of dissent Kishan so Cage have had their bank accounts closed since early 2014 that was when wisdom had his accounts closed I had my accounts closed his whole family had their accounts closed to this day, I still don't have a bank account I have to rely on bank accounts of my friends and family and That's fine. That's good. We're in great company with WikiLeaks there who have also had their bank accounts closed Tor who have had theirs affected and we're happy for that I want to make something very very clear here We're not moaning about the price that we pay for dissent all of these things that we're we're gonna be mentioning here I'm not something that we didn't know about going into this You can't step up and speak out and account people in power without having some some come back on it So this is about telling you about it, but also saying that that's fine. That's not a problem and we're up for it They want to bring it come on some of the major funders of cage were main charities the Roddick Foundation the Thank you very much the Roddick Foundation and the round two trust Fruit pastels used to support cage and the charity commission came in And said that you guys can't fund them anymore And it's meant to be an independent Organization so we took them to court over this and we said that look you're independent These are charities and their objective is to fund people who support freedom of speech And you're trying to block them and that's not within your remit as We got into the court battle We got access to a lot of their emails and all of their emails regarding cage and we found out that they The head of the of the charity commission William shore cross sir William shore cross who will again come up later Was told by the American intelligence services and in his own words in his own emails That they had to put pressure on cage and try and stop our funding and this was reported in the Guardian as well There's been a barrage of attacks from the right wing and I'll be honest when you're speaking out against the military industrial complex You expect the Murdoch media to come after you with their knives sharpened But it's gone beyond the Murdoch media. We have the the prime minister of Britain Mentioning us directly in speeches telling the the largest student union body that they shouldn't have anything to do with us And they should be ashamed of themselves for getting involved with cage This is the level to which it's gone to right at the very top. They're still coming for us We've got a little rogues gallery here Of middle-aged white men that don't like cage So starting there with the leader. We've got David Cameron the PM does not stand for public pig molester It's prime minister, okay William William shore cross Who as I said was the head of the charity Commission? He's also the Queen's official biographer So we see here that at the heart of the establishment a strong neocon thread of people who have taken it upon themselves To attack cage and in some cases myself personally Lord Carlisle He was the independent reviewer of anti-terrorism who said that their secret evidence was solid against me personally However when a judge finally got to see that evidence after two and a half years He said there were never even reasonable grounds for suspicion I want to clarify that there were never any reasonable grounds for suspicion that I'd done anything wrong let alone been involved in terrorism now Reasonable grounds for suspicion which is the burden of proof that they have to prove with the secret court and secret evidence where they can't He hear your side of the case Reasonable grounds for suspicion is the burden of proof you need to do a stop and search on the street Two and a half years of my own life taken away on the basis of a burden of proof that is stop and search Next slide So we're gonna play a little game here. We're gonna we're gonna get some hands in the air a little bit of student Audience participation, so just chuck your hands in the air like you just don't care How many people here have had their bank accounts closed for no reason and with no accountability There's a couple, but largely all the hands down where this has been happening across the Muslim community. It's happened to two people within Two workers within the organization one board member myself Mars and beg And it's going on amongst a whole range of other groups and organizations including the court of a foundation under Celtic Crete and others How many people have had their passport taken away and given no due process to try and get it back at all We're now in the UK under the Royal Progressive and other legislation This is happening more and more and more amongst the Muslim community We I've had my passport taken away under the Royal Progressive before Mars and beg has had it taken away twice My next little neighbor when I used to live in Birmingham have had his passport taken away and I personally personally know of Probably about 40 50 people that have had this happening to them How many people here have been banned from entering countries for again for no other reason or for given no reason Again, we got one or two hands here Again cage members have been barred from a pretty impressive list myself from Turkey I was going on an aid convoy and they decided that the sleeping bags I was going to be giving to refugees in Turkey were far too dangerous And I had to basically hitchhike back to the UK from from the Turkish border, which was a fun trip next one How many people have been detained in it in it upon entering the country for up to six hours? This is called a schedule seven Mars have spoke about it quite a lot It's actually a very important piece of legislation because it's very very dangerous in what it can do And it's one of the things that they use the legislation they used on David Miranda if you look here to the list list of the different Rights that you don't have when you're traveling in and out of the country now my lovely and long-suffering wife is Dutch She comes from Amsterdam and so I have to go to Amsterdam very very regularly Because otherwise my mother-in-law won't see her her grandchildren and that will involve me getting stabbed very quickly So every single time I come back This is the process that I have to go through and not just me six between 60,000 and 90,000 people a year Are affected by these lit by this legislation and there is no requirement for reasonable court Suspicion at all happens to so much in the office that we've got a leaderboard Tracking who's been stopped the most? Okay, now this is the this is the future and this is very scary and this is what we're just starting to see happen How many people have had their children taken away because of their religious or political beliefs? That's a horrific statement just the fact that we can say that is horrific we Warned that with the new legislation where prevent became mandatory and statutory and every civil servant has to implement this this policy of basically spying upon communities The the outcome of that would be children being taken away from their families We were told that we were scare mongering and that that would never happen. It has happened It's already been happening cage are dealing with eight cases at the moment and These cases are again being heard in secret courts and secret involving secret evidence You got 360,000 public sector workers who have been trained to spy on Muslims who have been trained to spot the science of radicalization those signs of radicalization And the the effect of that has been a 500% increase in the number of prevent referrals The the training they receive is an hour and a half That's in one hour video, which includes scenes from this is England And a half an hour question and answer session where they're meant to learn the ins and outs of Islam a religion that's 1400 years old and be able to spot what a radical is I actually come from an Irish family and and being a radical was it was meant to be a good thing So This is a terrifying development in the in the war on terror. We're gonna talk more about prevent Later on as long as I could don't get shouted at So I'm gonna skip over this bit because you heard about those. It's not scare mongering These are all documented cases and we are not gonna be silent on these issues We will keep on talking out We will not lay down we will not shut up because it is an obligation upon us to speak truth to the people in power And we will continue to speak truth to the people in power as we did when we Compiled the first comprehensive list of people that have been held in Guantanamo Bay We will continue to speak truth to power as we did when we exposed the the British Complicitity in the rendition and CIA torture programs We will continue to speak truth to power in the way that we did when Muizum was able through his work and through his campaigning to change the views on Guantanamo We will continue to speak truth to power when we exposed black site CIA prisons And we will continue to speak a truth to power To people countries like Abu Dhabi that have secret prisons and the reason why the cut of the embassy is on there Is because there was a cut of the man being held at this secret prison within walking distance of his own embassy and his Own embassy had no idea of it Katie's opposition to prevent has been groundbreaking and we're leading the way in this area We organized a petition of over 300 leading academics in the UK and across the across the world who signed the Joint letter saying how damaging and dangerous prevent was Some of you may know who this guy is. I hear he's quite well known and He emphasizes the same point here that what happens to the Muslim community will happen to To the rest of us as well So cage has been involved in the release of Guantanamo prisoners and Working for this especially with the South African government now We have been very proud of our work to get people released from a variety of different Situations where they've been held unjustly We were working on the case of Alan Henning and obviously Very very sadly that one didn't work out But one of the things I always say about Alan Henning was that he was rendered from his from his aid convoy He was detained indefinitely without charge or trial and then he was murdered by extra judicial killing by ISIS and We stand up against that and we campaigned for his release And we were working behind the scenes for his release and we have done for for other people like Norman Kemba and For us it doesn't matter if you're ISIS and you're kidnapping people or you're the CIA and you're kidnapping people It's all wrong. It's all illegal and you should be held to account Give me two seconds and earlier on this year. We won a landmark case against the Charity commission in regards to them trying to stop our funding Which would never happen before so Obviously because of the crowd that we are here. I want to talk about infosec for a minute with you guys and The threat that we face as an organization as we are holding governments to account as we are holding security services to account as we are As we are holding all these different organizations to Account we know that the people that are trying to spy on us and Snoop into our emails are some of the most dangerous people Out there in regards to this sort of these sorts of issues and so this is a letter from Jason Leopold From the CIA where he did a freedom of information request as to whether they're spying on us Unfortunately, they weren't that forthcoming with the the particulars So infosec is very very important for us in our work. It protects our sources It protects the work the the people that we're working with Tor is our standard browser in the office It would be very very bad if anyone was caught using anything else And we're looking to within the Muslim community around Europe to do a tour tour, which just sounds brilliant where we're hoping to Help people learn about tour and get communities using it more frequently because it's such an important piece of kit GPG encryption Is used on all of our internal communications and I've got to give a special shout out to signal which Just does so much incredible work and cage couldn't exist without all of these pieces of technology That we use every day to allow us to to communicate with our clients and to to leak out Critical information that we're doing so I want to end on a very big. Thank you Firstly, I thank you to the survivors and to the people who have been through these things and Working with cage and and a big massive Thank you to to you guys basically the people in the communities that create things like tour the communities that create things like signal With who without whom's help we couldn't do this work. This work would just fall flat without that without the tools that you guys create The tools that you create are saving lives and exposing lives. Thank you very much So now we're going to if you want to exit if you want to exit now would be a good time But we're gonna do a Q&A, but before you leave There's one thing I want to say which maybe is not the kindest thing to say, but it's an important thing to say Now none of you can say that you didn't know so it's up to us to do something to change these things So if you have a question, please come to the microphones This is I think a really unique chance to talk to people who? Really need to interact with the infosec community who need to think about the things that this Conference and that the CCC has been thinking about for 30 years and getting these groups together is really huge So I hope that you'll welcome cage and integrate them into the community sit with them in the tea house Really talk with them and come to the microphone now to ask questions. You probably won't be drowned But it'd be worth it You have a question, okay I guess thank you for having this talk because we always knew people were spying but seeing this happening in More or less our neighbor country is quite shocking to be honest And I guess my question is since you're using tour and GPG and signal and all of that have you experienced? Any flaws so the government knowing the things you only communicated through supposedly secure channels So far we haven't had any Cases where we've found obvious flaws and and and seen Identifiable issues yet But I it's my inclination that if there was they probably be quite careful not to expose it to us, but like so far so good and We can only do what we can But we haven't had any complaints yet. Thank you very much. Really impressive talk a Question from the internet, please Yes, um, what can we do to strike a balance between government overreach? To prevent terrorist attacks and privacy protection Okay, so I couldn't see who asked that but thank you for the for the question. Oh, okay. They're there Yeah, no, I think what we need to do is remember always our fundamental values and our fundamental principles about the rule of law and Implementing justice equally Regardless of the situation Generally speaking every time you go into the realms of overreach, you're making the problem worse for yourself not better And that in and of itself is a self-defeating Way of approaching these situations We didn't need all this legislation Rafts and rafts of it that we've had since 9-11 to deal with the the Irish situation and to be honest The Irish were much better at being terrorists than the Muslims have proven to be Yeah So and even now we we see that according to FBI reports and Interpol Varying numbers, but 97% and in America 98% of all terrorism has nothing to do with Islam So we we need to take a realistic approach take a measured approach approach and maintain our values Microphone 6, please hello. Yes, so I'd like to ask So you've had all your bank account closed and some blocks so and this is one of the Supposed use cases for Bitcoin I'm just wondering Have you been using it or what reasons have you had for not using it in a wider sense Okay, so speaking personally I'm not a great techie Bitcoin is something I've looked at a few times for getting getting involved in and using And it's something that cage have been been looking at I think one of the main reasons that sort of held us back at so far has been market fluctuations I think as far as I understand And as it is not my area of expertise tool, but with the with the fluctuating value of it. It can be quite There's been some organizational worries and concerns on that regard But it is something that we're definitely looking at and coming to places like that and meeting people like you guys who are experts in these sorts of things is very very invaluable for us because we need that that layer of expertise and advice Microphone one, please. Thank you so much for coming and sharing your story with us. This was a really incredible talk I think kind of piggybacking on what you just said It's super important for communities like this one to hear about experience like yours Not simply because we can probably help you with digital security And it's really awesome to see that you're already using a lot of these tools Could you maybe talk about other organizations like cage that are not in the UK since this is such an international audience and How we might be able to reach out to them to sort of offer them the same resources or at least just be in touch in solidarity There there are a load of really really good organizations that are doing similar sorts of work So in France where at the moment the the legislation in France has gone into hyperdrive absolutely insane I was telling you about control orders that I was under In the wake of the Paris attacks in a space of two days They put 400 people under these sorts of similar measures without charge and without trial They're actually the the the French government Putting in a request to the Supreme Court to look into the legality of opening up a domestic Guantanamo Bay where they could lock people up without trial and without charge in France So we're looking at internment camps on mainland Europe basically And so in France, there's a brilliant organization called CCIF My French is absolutely terrible, but I think it basically means like a standing against Islamophobia But they are doing some brilliant brilliant work There's quite a few organizations in Holland that are doing some good stuff on this Helen Duffy Who's based in Den Haag? Is absolutely superb on this sort of stuff? And so there are there are quite a few things We're gonna be up upstairs in the tearoom if you come come and chat to us We can give you sort of a more full list Norris Microphone to please First of all, I'd like to say that you guys are insanely brave for what you're doing. So Thank you now the thing is Nobody likes abuses and nobody in their right mind would ever condone being wrongfully accused or being taken to Guantanamo or whatnot, but there's this Crazed fear about terrorism Yeah in light of the recent attacks So what do you think the security community or you guys could do in order to help? Big brother or whoever To prevent terrorism because okay. We are fighting abuse and that's great But these things do happen and I'm personally terrified of that. Yeah Look, we're all terrified and scared of the the dangers that we're that we're placed under and I think we at the same time We have to make sure that we take a balanced approach and we look at these things In a scale that's befitting what they are The attacks in Paris were horrible and no one would deny that unfortunately according to Nobel Peace Prize winning Statisticians and and doctors there've been four million deaths Since the war on terror from indigenous Muslim peoples in their own lands So we have to if we want to get past this war on terror we have to move towards the situation of justice for all peoples and To be honest we have to realize that and take our own privilege into account Western lives are valuable all lives are but so are eastern lives as well And as long as we are rampaging around the world Dropping bombs willy-nilly then there are going to be those people that are going to seek to attack us in The same sort of way. It's horrific and it's wrong and it shouldn't happen But it happened with with the Irish it happens in in South Africa in South Africa with the ANC and Nelson Mandela was involved in bombing campaigns and so we have to Look at this in the context of history and and not take history away from what's going on at the moment a question from the internet, please So this question is is cage connected to other groups which fight against Prevent in the UK Yeah, in terms of working against Prevent there's a very good organization called prevent watch Which do incredible work? Dealing with the people who are affected by it We had a case just recently of an eight-year-old boy who was in class they were discussing environmentalism And this eight-year-old boy said I think it's really good what Greenpeace do they get out there And they they stop the Japanese from from killing the whales they crash their boats into them They're kind of like eco terrorists and in two hours later He was being taken out of the classroom by police and questioned about his views on Israel and Palestine and ISIS This is an eight-year-old child in the United Kingdom Prevent watch brought that case out worked with cage. We got it out into the public sphere We're working with the NUS the largest student body in the UK. They have a They they they're working with us widely in the university setting We're working with a whole range of organizations too many to list really M pack The MRDF I era I mean the list goes on and on and on Microphone number four, please Hi, thanks So my question is if you want I believe if you want to change behavior We basically have to understand why this behavior occurs So if you could you put yourself in the shoes of the government? What is what is their narrative? Are they would you say? Oh, we just wanted to find terrorists But be it a mistake or do they make votes or do they make money or what are their intentions? There's a couple of problems. There's a there's a couple of issues and that's a really great question by the way There's a couple of issues here from the government's perspective one We have a very strong neo-conservative push going on it across a multiple governments at the moment Which are very hawkish and and seek to enrich the the military industrial complex to they've got a fundamental Misunderstanding about the way that terrorism happens. So we constantly Told in the media that it's all to do with radicalization and understandings of Islam and people You know one guy starts wearing a thulb to a thing grows a beard and then next thing You know, he's probably gonna be off joining Isis the academic experts in these fields Mark Sageman who was X CIA and actually came up with this theory And other experts have said that it's complete nonsense The terrorism that we face now is like every other terrorism. It comes from political political dissatisfaction and that's why Cage we always try to try to use the term political violence because that's what it is It's a it's a political situation. We need to find a political solution to it. So I hope that sort of answers And the last question microphone to please Hi, thank you for your question. All right, sorry. This is my question. Thank you for your talk. I Know exactly how you feel right now I'm glad it's you that's on stage I Guess my question to you is as technologist How can we better support you and build better tools and basically build tools that are effective for your organization? For organizations like you Thank you very much. I think that what? What we need especially at the moment is advice and working with people who are experts in these sorts of areas And there are a lot of things that for example There's software now that's going out and being rolled out across the country in schools where If you type in any one of a number of keywords you get flagged up for the prevent measures Which I was telling you about where kids get taken out of schools and questioned by the police and sometimes even taken away from their families When we found out about this software we found out that the Some of the names on the list for ordinary activists who have And very very clearly have no reason to be on any such list And so we're into it like this is McCarthyite system And anyone checking the typing things in can innocently then cause problems for themselves later on One of the things that we tried to do is find out and work out what the full list was We had a screenshot of a presentation that they gave But we couldn't we and we had no idea of how to approach those sorts of problems so Working with people like yourselves to sort of deal with these things would be very very good and sort of Getting into sort of finding out and researching these sorts of issues Thank you very much for this inspiring talk. It's kind of disturbing, but we all have to know that Thank you. Thank you very much having me