 TheCube presents HPE Discover 2022 brought to you by HPE. Hey everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's day one coverage of HPE Discover 22 live from the Venetian in Las Vegas. I got a power panel here, Lisa Martin, Dave Vellante, John Furrier, Holger Muller also joins us. We are going to wrap this, like you've never seen a wrap before. Guys, lot of momentum today, lot of excitement, about 8,000 or so, customers, partners, HPE leaders here. Holger, let's go ahead and start with you. What are some of the things that you heard, felt, saw, observed today on day one? Yeah, it's great to be back in person, right? 8,000 people events are rare, I'm not sure. Have you been to more than 8,000? Yeah, yeah. Okay, this year, this year, I mean, historically, yes, but... It's not like it was 10. Yeah. So, oh wow, okay. So 8,000... They said 15, but... 8,000 is my record. SAP let us down of 7,000, kind of like, but it's in the Florida swamps, not nicely, like... And there's usually, what, SFI? There's usually 20? 20, 30, 40, 50, I remember, 50 in the 90s, right? That was a different time, but yeah. Interesting. Yeah, interesting what people do. It depends how much time there is to come, right? And know that it happens, right? But yeah, no, I think it's interesting. We had a good analyst track today. Interesting, like HPE is kind of like back, not being your grandfather's HPE to a certain point. One of the key stats, I know Dave, you're always for the stats, right? It's what I found really interesting, that over two-third of GreenLake revenue is software and services. Now, I'd love to know how much of that is services, not much of that is software. But I mean, I provocated someone who went to once, the HPE executive, saying, hey, you're a hardware company, right? And they didn't even come back, right? But Antonio said, no, two-thirds is software and services, right? That's interesting. They passed the one exabyte being managed as a hallmark, right? I was surprised, only 120,000 users, if I had to remember the number right, right? So that doesn't seem a terrible high amount of number of users, right? So, but that's promising. So what software is in there? Because it's got to be mostly services, right? Well, it's the 70 plus cloud services, right? That everybody's talking about, where they added eight of them, shockingly, backup and recovery. I thought that was done at large, right? Who would expect from? They keep recycling storage and back, but you would have backup and recovery. But now it's real. Yeah, but the company who knows the enterprise, right, HPE, so what have we been doing before with no backup and recovery? GreenLake, so that was kind of like, okay, we really want to do this now, and Yuli, and then say like, oh, by the way, we've been doing this all the time. Yeah. What's your take on the install base of HPE? We had the conversation, the kickoff around, who's their target? What's the target audience environment look like? IT certainly is changing. If it's software and services, GreenLake is resonating. Ecosystem is responding. What's their customers? Because managed services are up, too. Kubernetes, all the managed services. What's their IT transformation base look like? Much of it is, of course, the install base, right? The trusted 20, 30 plus year old HPE customer who's keeping doing stuff of HPE, right? And call it GreenLake, whatever, right? They've been through so many name changes, it doesn't really matter. And it's kind of like, nice that you get the consume, paying only what you consume, right? I get the cloud brought to me. Then the general market is, of course, people who still need to run stuff on premises, right? And there's three reasons of doing this. Performance, right? Because we know the speed of light is relative. If you're in the southern hemisphere and even your email service in the northern hemisphere, it takes a moment for your email to arrive. It's a very different user experience. Local legislation for data residency, privacy. And then, I mean, Charles Phillips, who we all know, right, former president of INFO, nicely always said, hey, if the CIO is over 50, I don't have to sell cloud, right? So there is a not invented, I'm not gonna do cloud here. And now I've kind of like cloudish with something like HPE GreenLake, so that's the customers. And then, of course, procurement is a big friend, right? Because when you do hardware refresh, right? You never have two or three competitors. Who are the two or three competitors left, right? There's Dell, and then maybe Lenovo, right? So that's kind of like the market. So you have the channels of strength, the procurement positions of strength, install base. Question, do you think they have a Microsoft opportunity where what 365 was, Microsoft had Office before 365. They brought in the cloud and then everything changed. Does HP have that same opportunity with kind of the GreenLake model with all their existing stuff? It has a GreenLake opportunity, but there's not much software left. It's a very different situation like Microsoft, right? So which HPE could bring along to say, now run it with us better than the cloud because they've been selling much of it, most of it of their software portfolio, which they bought as an HP in the past, right? So I don't see that happening so much. But GreenLake as a platform itself was interesting because enterprise need a modern container-based platform. I want to double-click on this a little bit because the way I see it is HPE is going to, it's install base, I think you guys are right on it. This is how we're doing business now, you know, come on along. But my sense is some customers don't want to do the consumption model. There are actually some customers who say, hey, I don't have a cash problem. I want to pay for it up front and leave me alone. I've been doing this in 50 years. Why should I change it now? Exactly, because I'm like, here's the money. You're the one who wants to do it and I don't want to rent because rental's more expensive and blah, blah, blah. So do you see that in the customer base that some are pushing back? Of course, look, I have a German accent, right? So I go there regularly and the Germans are like, worried about doing anything in the cloud. And if you go to a board in Germany and say, hey, we can pay our usual hardware refresh, CapEx is usual, or should we buy consumption? And they might know what we are running. So nothing old friends against the Germans out there and the German boards out there, but many of them will say, hey, so this has changed with COVID, right? It was super interesting, right? So the traditional boards, non-technical have been hearing about this cloud, variable cost, OPEX to CapEx. All of a sudden, there's so much CapEx, right? Office buildings, which are not being used, truck fleets, so there's a whole new sensitivity by traditional non-technical boards towards CapEx, which now the light bulb went on and said, oh, that's the cloud thing about also. So we have to find a way to get our cost structure to ramp up and ramp down, as our business might be ramping up through COVID, through now inflation fears, recession fears, and so on. So, okay, HPE's made the statement that anything you can do in the cloud, you can do in Green Lake. And I've said, you can't run on Snowflake, you can't run Mongo Atlas, you can't run Databricks, but that's okay, that's fine. I think they're talking about the operating experience. So we've got single sign-on, through a URL, you've got some level of consistency in terms of policy. It's unclear exactly what that is. You got storage, backup, DR, some other services, 70 other services. If you had to sort of take your best guess as to where HP is now and peg it toward where Amazon was in which year? 2014. 2014, yeah. But they had their first conference or the second to reinvent here with 3,000 people and they were thinking, hey, we're big, yeah. Yeah, and I think Green Lake is the building blocks. So that's the question. Building, right, I mean, similar. Well, I mean, they had ECQ and SQS, right? That was the core. And then the rest of those services were, I mean, a base dock was the one that first came in behind. And in fairness, the industry has advanced since then. Kubernetes is further along and so HP can take advantage of that. But in terms of just the basic platform, I would agree. I think it's... Well, I mean, I think, I mean, the software question is a big one I want to bring up because the question is, is that software is eating the world? Hardware is really software. Scales everything. Data, the edge story. I love their story. I think HP story is wonderful. Aruba. You know, hybrid cloud, edge to edge. But if you look under the covers, it's weak, right? It's like, it's not software. They don't have enough software juice. But the ecosystem opportunity to me is where you plug and play. So HP knows that game. If you look historically over the past 25 years, HP, now HPE, they understand plug and play interoperability. So the question is, can they thread the needle between filling the gaps on the software with partners? Can they get the partners, right? And which have been long time, right? For a long time, HP has been the number one platform under ACP. That same thing. You get certified for running this, right? I know from my own history, I joined Oracle last century and the big thing was, let's get your eBus and suite certified on HP, right? As if somebody would buy that. HP Oracle was famous. It worked for them, right? This 20 years ago. That's a fine server, you know. The original exadata was HP Oracle, right? Exactly, exactly. So there's this thinking that's there. But I think the key thing is we know that all modern, forget about the hardware for more on the platforms, right? All modern software has to move to containers. At Snowflake runs in containers. You mentioned that, right? If customers force Snowflake and HPE to the table, right? There will be a way to make it work, right? And which will help HPE to be the partner open part with bringing the software in. I think that's an opportunity because that changes the game. And agility and speed, if HP plays their differentiation, right? Which we asked on the opening segment, what's their differentiation? They got size, scale, channel. Access to the enterprise. And then the big benefit is this workload portability thing, right? If you understand what is running the public cloud, I need to run it local for whatever reason, performance, local residency of data, I can move that there. And that's a big benefit to the ISVs and sales vendors as well. But they have to have a stronger data platform story in my opinion. I mean, you can run Oracle and HPE, but there's no reason they shouldn't be able to do a deal with Snowflake. I mean, we saw it with Dell. We saw it with Pure. And if our HPE, I'd be saying, hey, because the way the Snowflake deal works, you probably know this, is your reading data into the cloud, the compute actually occurs in the cloud. Our HPE, I've been going to Snowflake saying, we can separate compute and storage. And we have GreenLake, we have OnDement. Why don't we run the compute on-prem and make it a full first-class citizen for all of our customer's data? And that would be really innovative. And I think Mongo would be another thing. They didn't get on-prem. The question is, how many Snowflake customers are telling Snowflake, can I run you on-premise? And how much data for open years will they hear from that, right? Well, why would they deal with Dell? They did deal with Dell. I think they did that deal because a customer came to them and said, if you don't get that deal, we're going to spend that. But Snowflake, customers say crazy things happen, right? Do you even put an Oracle database in the Microsoft Azure data center, right? It would fall off. Who's thought this possible? Snowflake, the Snowflake's in the world have to make a decision date on, is it all Snowflake all the time? Because the reality is, and I think, again, this comes back down to the track that HPE could go up or down, is going to be about software. Open source is now the software industry. There's no such thing as proprietary software, in my opinion, relatively speaking. Cloud scale and integrated integration software is proprietary. The workflows are proprietary. So if they can get that right with the partners, I would focus on that. I think they can tap open source. Look at Amazon with open source. They sucked it up and they integrated it in. So integration is the deal, not software per second. But Snowflake's made the call. You were there, Lisa. They're basically saying you have to be in Snowflake in order to get the governance and the scalability, all that other wonderful stuff. Oh, but we'll do Apache Iceberg. We'll open it up. We'll do Python. Yeah, but you can't do a data clean room unless you are in Snowflake. Exactly. Snowflake on Snowflake. Exactly. But isn't that what you heard from AWS all the time till they came out with Outpost? I mean, Snowflake is a market leader for what they're doing, right? So that they want to change their platform. I mean, kudos to them. They don't need to change the platform. They will be the last to change their platform to do anything on premises, right? But I think the trend already shows that it's going that way. Well, if you look at Outpost as a signal, Dave, the success of Outpost wants, what, four years ago they announced it? What? EKS is beating what Outpost is doing. Outpost is there. There's not a lot of buzz and talk to the insiders in the open source community. EKS and containers to your point is moving faster. On, I won't say commodity hardware, but like could be white box or HP Dell, whatever. It's going to be that scale differentiation. And the edge story is a good one. And I think with what we're seeing in the market now, it's the industrial edge. The back office was Gen 1 cloud, back office data center. Now it's hybrid. The focus will be industrial edge, machine learning and AI, and they have it here. And there's some early conversations with, I heard it from this morning, you guys interviewed John Schultz, right, with the World Economic Forum for Cape Earth, Butterfield, she was amazing. And then you had Justin bring up, Hotarth bring up quantum. So, they have the computing shops, they have the R and D. Can they bring it to the table? As HPC, right, with what they showed, with the Fungi system, right? So very impressive. So the ecosystem is the key for them is because that's how they're going to fill the gaps. They can't, they can't only subend the R and D. They could, HPC edge piece, I wouldn't count them out of that game yet. Because you co-locate a box, I'll use the word box, particularly, at a telco tower, that's a data center. Right, if done properly. So, you know, what Outpost was supposed to do actually is a hybrid opportunity. Aruba gives them a unique advantage. Yeah, but the key thing is right, it's a yin and yang, right? It's the ecosystem, it's partners to bring those software workload, absolutely right. But HP has to keep the platform attractive enough, right? And the key thing there is that you have this workload capability thing. That you can bring things which you've built yourself. I mean, look at the telcos, right? Network function visualization. Thousands of man years into these projects, right? So if I can't bring it to your edge box, no, I'm not going to get to your edge box, right? Hold on, I got to ask you, since Dave too, since you guys are both here, and Lisa, you know, I said in the opening, they have serious customers and those customers have serious problems. Cyber security, ransomware. So yeah, I teach transformation now, industrial transformation, machine learning, check, check, check, oh, sounds good. But at the end of the day, their customers have some serious problems. Cyber, this is high stakes poker. What do you think HP's positioned for in the security? You mentioned containers, you got all this stuff, you got open source, supply chains, shift it left, supply chain issues. What is their position with security? Because that's the big one. I think they have to have a mature attitude that customers expect from HPE, right? I don't have to educate HPE on security. So they have to have the partner offerings, again, we're back at the ecosystem, to have what probably you have. So bring your own security, apart from what they have to have out of the box to do business with them. This is why the shocker this morning we're back up and recovering. Recovering. It's kind of like important for that, right? Oh, that's ransomware. Some more skeletons in the closet there, right which customers should check, of course. But I think the expectations HPE understands that and brings it along, either from partner or natively. I think it's services. I think point next is the point of integration for their security. That's why two thirds is software and services. A lot of that is services. You need security, we'll help you get there. People trust HPE. But nothing against point next to any professional service, they're all hardworking. But if I will have to rely on humans for my cyber security strategy on a daily level, I'm getting gray hair and have a lot of gray hair. But I do think that's the current strategy. I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of that stuff that's beginning to be designed in. But my guess is a lot of it is services. Well, you got the Aruba part of the booth was packed. Aruba's there. You mentioned that earlier. Is that good enough? Because the word zero trust has kicked around a lot. On one hand, on the other hand, other conversations, it's all about trust. So supply chain and software is trusting. Trust and verify. So you got this whole mentality of perimeter, gone mentality, it's zero trust. And if you've got software, trust. Interesting thoughts there. How do you reconcile zero trust and then I need trust? What are you seeing older on that? Because I ask people all the time, they're like, I'm zero trust or is it trust? Yeah, the middle ground. Trust and verify. In the meantime, people are manipulating what's happening in your runtime containers. So drift control is in your password there that you check what's in your runtime containers, which supposedly are impenetrable, but people finding ways to hack them. So you'll see this cat and mouse game going on all the time. There's always going to be the need for being in a secure, good environment from that perspective. But the key is, edge has to be more than a rubah, right? If HP goes away and says, oh yeah, we can manage your edge with our rubah devices, that's not enough. It's the virtual capability and you said the important thing before, it's about the data, right? Because a dirty secret of containers is, yeah, move the code. But what enterprise code works without data, right? You can't say it's enterprise, okay, we're done for the day, check tomorrow, we didn't persist your data. Auditor, customer, we don't have your data anymore. So we're finding a way to transport the data and there it just went for last thought, right? They have a super interesting asset I want to break alans for the venerable map R, right? Which wrote their own storage drivers and gives you the chance to potentially do something in that area, which I'm personally excited about, but we'll see what happens. I mean, I think the holy grail is, can I put my data into a cloud? Who's ever called a super cloud? And can I, is it secure? Is it governed? Can I share it and be confident that it's discoverable and that the person I give it to has the right to use it and it's the correct data. There's not like a zillion copies running, that's the holy grail. And I think the answer today is no, you can do that maybe inside of AWS or maybe inside of Azure, maybe certainly inside of Snowflake. Can you do that inside of GreenLake? Well, you probably can inside of GreenLake, but then when you put it into the cloud, is it cross cloud? Is it really out to the edge? And that's where it starts to break down, but that's where the work is to be done. That's what we're making. One exabyte is in there already, right? So, man being man. Yeah, but okay, but it's in there. Yeah. Okay. What do you do with it? Can you share that data? Can you actually automate governance, right? Is that data discoverable? Are there multiple copies of that data? What's the, you know, master copy? All right, here's a question for you guys. Here's a question for you guys, analysts. What do you think the psychology is of the CIO or CISO when HPE comes into town with GreenLake and they say, what's your relationship with the hyperscalers? Because I'm a CIO, I got my environment, I might be CapEx centric or, hey, I'm open model, open mind to an operating model. Every one of these enterprises has a cloud relationship. What's the dynamic? What do you think the psychology is of the CIO when they're rationalizing their trajectory, their architecture, cloud native, scale, integration with HPE GreenLake or HPE Conservatives? I think she or he hears defensiveness from HPE. I think she hears HPE or he hears HPE coming in and saying, you don't need to go to the cloud. You know, you could keep it right here. I don't think that's the right posture. I think it should be, we are your cloud and we can manage whether it's on-prem, hybrid in AWS Azure, Google across those clouds and we have an edge story. That should be the vision that they put forth. That's the super cloud vision, but I don't hear it from these guys. What do you think the cycle, do you agree with that? I'm totally, sorry to be boring, but I totally agree with Dave on that, right? So the multi-cloud capability from a trusted large company has worked for anybody up and down the stack, right? You can look historically for past layers with cloud foundry, right? There's history available. You can look for DevOps with HashiCorp. You can look for database with MongoDB right now. So if HPE provides that data access, right? With all the problems of data gravity and egress costs and the workload capability, that will be doing really, really well. But we need to hear it more, right? We didn't hear much software today in the keynote, right? Do they have a competitive offering vis-a-vis AWS or Azure? The question is, will it be an HPE offering or will Asmeral, the software platform, one of the offerings and you as a customer can plug and play, right? Will software be a differentiator for HPE, right? And will it be close proprietary to the point to, again, be open up for it? Or will they get that R&D for that? Or will they just say, okay, Asmeral is here on the side of your choice and you can use OpenShift or whatever? We don't care. That's the key question. That's the key question. Is it, because it is a competitive strategy. Is it highly differentiated? Oracle has a highly differentiated strategy, right? Is Dell highly differentiated? Dell differentiates based on its breadth. What? Well, they're trying for the control plane, too. Dell wants to be an engineer. Okay, their vision is differentiated, okay? But their execution today is not high. All right, let me throw this out at you then. I'm HPE. I want to be the glue layer. Does that fly? What do you mean, the glue layer? I want to be, you can do Amazon, but I want to be the glue layer between the clouds and our green lake. What's the incremental value that that glue provides? Provides comfort and reliability and control for the single pane of glass for AWS and Azure. It comes back to the data, in my opinion. There's glue levels on the data level, and there's glue levels on API level, right? And there's different vendors in the different spaces, right? I think HPE will want to play on the data side. We heard lots of data stuff. We hear that. But you have to see it, exactly. It's lacking today. And so, hey, you guys know better than I. APIs can be fragile, and there can be, there's a lot of diversity in terms of the quality of APIs and the documentation, how they work, how mature they are, what kind of performance they can provide and recoverability. And so, just saying, oh wow, we're living the API economy. You know, it's going to take time to prove. Chime in here. Hi. Oh. So guys, you've all been covering HPE for a long time. You know, when Antonio stood up on stage three years ago and said, by 2022, and here we are, we're going to be delivering everything as a service. He's saying, we've done it, and we're a new company. Do you guys agree with that? Definitely. Yes, yes, with a caveat. I think, yes, the COVID pandemic slowed them down a lot because that gave a tailwind to the hyperscalers because of the force major of massive under forecast and working at home. I mean, everyone I talked to was like, no one forecasted, 100% work at home, the CapEx investments. I think that was an opportunity that they'd be much further along if there's no COVID. People thought it wasn't possible. Yeah. Right, so we had the whole work from home thing, where people trying to get people fired at IBM and Yahoo Ride. So I would have this question covering the HR side and the other head on, right? And I would ask CHROs, let's assume because I didn't know about COVID, shame on me, right? I said, big California earthquake breaks, right? Nobody gets hurt, but all the buildings have to be retrofitted and checked for seismological damage, so everybody's working from home. I asked CHROs, what kind of productivity gap would you get by forcing everybody working from home with the office not safe? So one gentleman, I won't know his name, he said 20%. And the other one's going, ha, you're smoking, it's 40, 50%. We need to be in the office. We need to meet in person, right? And now we went for this exercise, luckily not with the California earthquake, with the price of COVID. We've seen what it can do to productivity. Well, the productivity, but also the impact. So like all the stories we've done over the two years, the people that came out ahead were the ones that had good cloud action. They were already in the cloud. So I think they're definitely a different company in the sense of, I give them a pass. I think they're definitely a new company and I'm not going to judge them on it. I think they're doing great, but I think pandemic definitely slowed them down. I've got about it. I have a different take on this. I think, so let's go back to a little history. I mean, you said this, I can steal your line. Meg Whitman took one for the Silicon Valley team. She came in, I don't think she ever was excited about that. You said that. I think you're right on. I find the tape on that one. She had to figure out, how do I deal with this mess? I have EDS, I got PCs. You never should have spun off the PC. Okay, but you certainly could, listen, maybe Gershner never should have gone all in on services and IBM would dominate in something other than mainframes. They had ThinkPads even for a while, but so she had that mess to deal with. She dealt with it and however they dealt with it. Antonio came in and he said, all right, we're going to focus the company and we're going to focus the mission on not the machine. Remember those presentations which would just make your eyes glaze over. We're going all in on Azure service. And Edge, we're going to build our own cloud. We acquired Aruba. He made some acquisitions in HPC to help differentiate. And they are definitely a much more focused company now. And unfortunately, I wish Antonio would CEO in 2015, because that's really when this should have started. And then if you remember back then, Dave, we were interviewing Docker with DevOps teams. They had Composability. They were on hybrid really early. I think they might have even coined the term hybrid before VMware tried to take credit for it. But they were first on hybrid. They had DevOps. They had infrastructure as code. HPE had an awesome cloud team. And then they tried to go public cloud. And then Vecti just made them, it was just a mess. The focus is there. I give them huge props. And I think the GreenLake to me is exciting here because it's much better than it was two years ago when we talked to them. It's starting to get real. It's a real thing. And I think that the tell will be partners. If they make that right, it can pull their different ecosystem, their scale and their customers and fill the software gaps with partners and then create that integration opportunity. It's going to be a home run. If they don't do that, they're going to miss the operating model. But they have to have their own, to your point, they have to have their own software innovation as well. They have to have good infrastructure, ways to build applications. I don't want to build with somebody else. I don't want to take a Microsoft stack and not sure if it's going to work with HPE. So they have to have an app def answer. I absolutely agree with that. And the big thing for the partners is which is a good thing, right? HPE will not move into applications. You don't have to have the fear where Microsoft is if they will go large, right? If AWS kind of like comes up with APIs and manufacturing, they Google the same thing with the vertical push, right? So HPE will not have the capex. Not the irony. They're not going to steal your IP. So as an ISV, making them the partner of the owners of being able to on premise is an attractive part. So that's an inflection point for next 12 months to watch what we see running on GreenLake. And I think one of the things that came out of the last couple of events this past year, and I'll bring this up, we'll table it and we'll watch it. And it's early in this, I think this is like even not even the first inning. The machine learning AI impact to the industrial piece, I think we're going to see a brand new era of accelerated digital transformation on the industrial physical world. Backoffice cloud, data center, accounting, all the stuff that's applications. The real world from space to like robotics. I think that HPE edge opportunity is going to be visible and different. So guys, Antonio Neary is on tomorrow. This is only day one, if you can imagine this power panel on day one. Can you imagine tomorrow? What is your last question for each of you? What is your, well, what question would you want to ask him tomorrow? Hold on, I'll start with you. How is HPE winning in the long run? Because we know their on-premise market will shrink, right? And they can out-execute Dell, they can out-execute Lenovo, they can out-execute Cisco and get a bigger share of the shrinking market, but that's not a long-term strategy, right? So why should I buy HPE stock now and have a good return, put it in the safe and forget about it and have a great return 20 years from now? What's the really long-term strategy? Might be unfair because they were in survival mode to a certain point out of the mass post-McVipman situation, but what is really the long-term strategy? Is it more on the hardware side? Is it going to go on the HPE, the frontier side? It's going to be a DNA question, which I would ask Antonio. John. I would ask him, what relative to the macro conditions relative to their customer base? I'd say, because the customers of the scoreboard, can they create a value proposition with their, I use the Microsoft 365 example, how they kind of went to the cloud? So my question would be, Antonio, what is your core value proposition to CIOs out there who want to transform and take a step function increase for value with HPE? Tell me that story I want to hear. And I don't want to hear, oh, we got a portfolio and no, what value are you enabling your customers to do? And what should that value be? I think it's going to be what we were kind of riffing on, which is you have to provide either what their product market fit needs are, which is, are you solving a problem? Is it a pain point? Is it a growth driver? And what's that tailwind? And it's also, we know a cloud, we know edge. The story is great, but what's the value proposition? But by going with HPE, you get X, Y and Z. If they can explain that clearly with real, so qualitative and quantitative data, it's home run. He had a great line of the analyst summit today where somebody asked him questions. I'm just listening to the customer. So be ready for the Steve Jobs photo. Listening to the customer, you can't build something great. Listening to the customer, you'll be good for the next quarter, the next financial year. And I would say, what are the customers saying? So I would make an observation. And my question would be, so my observation would be the cloud is growing collectively at 35%, it's approaching $200 billion, with a big four, if you include Alibaba. IBM has actually said, hey, we're going to grow, they've promised 6% growth. Cisco, I think is at eight or 9% growth. Dell's growing in double digits. Antonio and HPE have promised three to 4% growth. So what do you have to do to actually accelerate growth? Because three to 4%, my view, not enough to answer Holger's question is, why should I buy HPE stock? Well, if they have customer and there's demand and traction, to me that's going to drive the growth numbers. And I think the weak side of the forecast means that they don't have that fit yet. Yeah, so what has to happen for them to get above 5%, 6% growth? That's what we're going to analyze. I mean, I don't have an answer for that. I wish I had a better answer. I'd tell them. But it feels like, you know, HPE has an opportunity to say, here's the new HPE, okay? And this is what we stand for. And here's the one thing that we're going to do that consistently drives value for you, the customer. And that's going to have to come into some either architectural, cloud shift, or a data thing, or we are your store for blank. Well, I love the above. I guess the other question is, would he won't answer. Maybe this is a rude question. Would suspending things like dividends and stock buybacks and putting it into R&D, if you have confidence in the market, and you know what to do, why wouldn't you just accelerate R&D and put the money there? IBM, since 2007, IBM spent, this is the last stat, and then we can go. In 2007, IBM way outspent Google and Amazon and R&D, and CapEx too, by the way. Subsequent to that they've spent, I believe it's the numbers, close to $200 billion on stock buybacks and dividends. They could have owned cloud. And so, look at this business, the technology business by and large is driven by innovation. And so how do you innovate if you have- I'm buying HPE because they're reliable, high quality, and they have the outcomes that I want. I'll buy their products and services. I'm not sure I'd buy the stock. Yeah, yeah. Which he has to answer ultimately because they're public company, right? So, it's his job, yeah. Never a dull moment with the three of you around. Guys, thank you so much for sharing your insights, your analysis from day one. I can't imagine what day two is going to bring tomorrow. Dave, you and I are going to be anchoring here. We've got a jam-packed day, lots going on, hearing from the ecosystem, from leadership. As we mentioned, Antonio is going to come tomorrow. And Fidel Maruso, I'm dying. And Fidel Maruso as well as on the CTO, going to be another action-packed day. I'm excited for it. Guys, thanks so much for sharing your insights. And for letting me join this power panel. Great, great to be here. Power panel, plus me. All right, for Holger, John and Dave, I'm Lisa. You're watching theCUBE, our day one coverage of HPE Discover, wraps right now. Don't go anywhere, because we'll see you tomorrow for day two, live from Vegas. Have a good night.