 TLO what's poppin We are on twitch. We are live But by the time you see this we won't be so just leave a like comment subscribe Turn on your post notification bells. Let's continue to grow the family from Chicago to the UK Don't forget if you do miss a live and want to see a live just go to twitch.com Type in this you see it right next to me popped up around there And you can watch rewind fast forward through any lives that you missed and be ready for future lives You don't get we got patreon and we got a merch The link to all of this is down in the description shout out to all the patreoners This is vice. I Don't know if this gonna get posted, but it is vice X didn't make reveals why prisons are broken life inside Shockingly people who went on the course were more likely to commit sex offenses than people who just sat in their cells all day watching television My name's Chris Atkins. I'm a filmmaker who went to prison in 2016 for a white-collar crime I've since written two books about it The first one is just a diary of my time in Wandsworth and the second one is called time after time Which is about why so many prisoners reoffend after they get out I can say with very very strong authority that UK prison system is not fit for purpose 80% of all Convictions and cautions are reoffenses reoffending cost about 18 billion pounds a year. You don't have a prison system as such you just have Places where they warehouse the mentally ill and the drug addicted and rather than treating them We lock them up in very very small overcrowded disgusting very dangerous cells often for 23 hours a day We leave them there for years and years until we eventually let them out far more damaged than when they went in So unsurprisingly they go right back out and commit more crimes Well speaking of facts man, they need to take a note America and UK need to take notes man from I think Germany and Switzerland They're doing it over there. They like got the prison system down back like for a Re Reconstructing rebuilding people and making the better members of society When you meet people who've been in the system and people who live in the system It didn't just suddenly turn round age 25 and decide hey I'm gonna be a criminal a lot of them had very very troubled childhoods There's often a lot of physical abuse emotional abuse sexual abuse in some cases and they were placed into the social care system This is a social care system that we all know has been driven by cuts and basically almost ends up as a funnel into the criminal justice system So by the time these guys are 18 they've already got a dozen offenses My crime wasn't one of poverty But a huge number of crimes are driven simply because people just don't have any money So when people get made redundant or they lose their house They're suddenly put in a situation where really the only way they can see that they can survive is to start breaking the law One of the other areas that people don't really investigate very much is gambling the effect of gambling on crime So I met a lot of people who had ended up whether it was stealing from their boss or whether it was selling drugs It was all to start paying for gambling habits, and we know that gambling I'll get to the poor more than the rich all the government research shows that Ex-prisoners who leave the system and go out into gainful employment are far less likely to re-offend But the problem we have is that people who leave prison with a criminal record are actually sort of tainted by this and it makes Employment Harder because in a lot of cases they have to declare it and who wants to give a job to an ex-con, right? It's the same with housing all the government statistics show that Prisoners who come out with somewhere stable and safe to live far less likely to commit any more crimes But what we do is we shove them out on the streets without any means to get a roof over the head Simon McClellan is is one of the people I know like in America. You can't get like EBT You can't get no type of section 8 if you're a fella None of that is applying to you In time after time I spent quite a lot of time with bizarrely well over 10 years ago He perpetrated this insane Prison break by pretending to be his twin brother Simon has now I think received over 70 convictions Reasons that he ends up offending again again again is through lack of housing and he's in this insane situation Where he's released from prison again for shoplifting very minor offense So one of his license terms of his release It said you cannot be homeless and if you're homeless that's technically a crime so we can recall you to prison But they didn't give him anywhere to live so within two weeks guess what he's back inside again. It's huge wait what a Condition of your release is you can't be homeless, but you're not providing half of the house a home or anything like You know they reoffended at that point Which cost to the taxpayer he was offered a flat by his local council for a month to get him back on his feet But they said we can't give you this flat until we give you some ID But guess what you're not allowed to keep ID in a prison cell He didn't have any ID his probation officer refused to get involved in supply ID So he lost the flat he ended up sleeping rough. He ended up reoffending. He ended up going back to prison. I Encountered me. It's a vicious cycle man Any cases where prisoners deliberately Reoffend in order to go back to prison things are so bad for them in the outside world that prison is genuinely a better alternative Let's come in here too. People got nothing nothing on the outside They they're known on the inside. They got respect. They got money. They got three meals of roof heat Or whatever you heat some type of heat clothes blanket bed friends When I was inside I would say goodbye to people on a Friday and see them back inside again on the Monday In some cases I'd go and see the housing that they'd been sent into and I was looking at it going God This is worse than ones worth and it's almost the outside world is so Inhospitable and and hostile to them that actually a prison cell is more preferable Lenar has a hot selection of home I've actually heard that before What we doing? What we doing? Prison is such a mad weird alien environment that the only Option you have when you're in there is to completely adapt The problem is when you take someone out of that crazy environment and you put them back in the normal world It's a huge culture shock. What you need Is a process by which step by step you slowly reintegrate people to go out? So I was very fortunate enough at the end of my sentence to go to an open prison Which meant that each day I could go out you could study you could do community service you could get don't The UK has that right? Minimum security where you can like go in and out at the end of your sentence with deemed not at risk That's a that's a solid tactic I mean a lot of you because it like slowly integrates you back into society It's not just like a rip the bandaid here you go So you get a job you could see your family the problem is it's only about five percent of all prison places are open prison And generally it's only middle-class white collar people Buck the system to actually get a place open prison So the people who desperately desperately need to go through the open prison process Aren't allowed to go to open prison. Why because they have drug addiction problems. They have mental health problems They have violence on their record So they go through the closed prison system the years and years and years and then one day they say right get your stuff They open the gate and they push them out a big problem after you gotta have a super legit like Found it like when you get out of prison you gotta have good people around you And a lot of these people they've been locked up so long all their friends are gone Got them homies look what they got nobody uses smart phones So in prison smartphones are literally seen as the work of the devil like if you touch one you can get two weeks in segregation block The problem is you then put people in the outside world where everything is run on smart phones Especially after pandemic, you know if you want to pay for a restaurant meal You want to buy a train ticket. It's all done on a phone and these are prisoners who so make a valid way The last thing they use was a landline So there's a lot of programs and courses you can go on when you're in prison that are all supposed to try and Tackle reoffending. There's this huge industry Among sort of psychologists and sort of criminal justice professionals that makes a vast amount of money out of these courses And I found that with quite a few of them. There's either no evidence whatsoever that they have any impact On reoffending or rehabilitation and in some cases they actually make prisoners worse So there's famously a Course to call the sex offender. It'd be people man family that you thought was More friendly than they are friends that you thought that was more real friends than they are when you get out They're super insensitive. They don't really you know I'm saying they not really can I mean it's your fault He was locked up. Yes, but they're not really considering like Hey, if you don't do this he can't get this or maybe I should help him a little bit Give me those situations too a treatment program that was launched in With huge fan of sex offender treatment program that was launched in the UK with huge fanfare and The course cost about a hundred million pounds over 20 years The Ministry of Justice ended up doing an internal study that showed Shockingly that people who went on the course were more likely to commit sex offenses than people who just sat in their cells all day Now there are exceptions to this and one of them is it's a prison called HMP Grendan Which is terrifying high security establishment where they send the worst of the worst But inside they do something quite remarkable that they have the only prisoner-led peer therapy Process in the UK the courses aren't managed by the prison They're actually managed by the other prisoners and we're talking about rapists We're talking about child killers. We're talking about mass murderers and they all interrogate each other About why they've done what they've done and the saying that they have in Grendan is you can't con a con a lot of these criminals Are quite used to being able to mislead Psychologists and prison governors and social workers. They can't pull a fast one past. It's pretty smart Just like when you at work you have team meetings because without the bosses around so you can speak freely or Foreign sports you have all team meetings or all coach meetings Peer-to-peer meetings. They go it stuff gets handled better that way Like bro, you don't got to lie to me. I'm one of you like cut it out So the therapy is very very invasive and goes really down to the roots of why these people have Committed these unspeakable acts the reoffending rates in Grendan are far far lower than any other prison in the UK In fact, it's the only prison that has been shown to reduce reoffending Not just amongst shoplifters and bicycle thieves, but amongst murderers Rapists and pedophiles certain things that are seen to help prisoners but also help wide society Condemned by the right wing of government and the right wing tabloid press But also the sort of right wing element in society that thinks that if people have done something wrong They need to be brutally punished and anything that sounds like it might be sort of therapeutic Scenas soft justice and of course, that's a pretty bonkers approach because if you do Make these prisoners come to terms with what they've done and why they've done it They're far less likely to commit more crimes, which means you don't have any more victims of crime I'm all about the rehabilitation of a prisoner, but you can't be in prison living better than me Like that right there is gonna rub me all the way like I've seen somebody in Switzerland With a 75 inch flat screen playing PS5 like come on bro, too, what you doing on the ranch on a horse? I come on like what is this? But you know, please stay on man till I leave a like comment. I'm gone