 Hello everyone. Thank you for tuning in to the Straight Talk Vermont Show. I'm Bruce Wilson, Executive Director of Service Render Incorporated. Straight Talk Vermont is one of our programs. Before I talk to my wonderful guests, I want to mix in a couple announcements about our gallery. We have a gallery at the University of Vermont called Arts So Wonderful and it's open every day, pretty much every day at the, and so come in and check out our art. The University of Vermont is open from 10 to 7. And every Sunday, we're doing free art at City Market in the City Market on Flynn Avenue. So today, I'm very fortunate to have these wonderful ladies on the show to talk about equity and inclusion, racial equity inclusion and justice and diversity. So let's start off to my right. I want to introduce you to Yasmin Gordon and Teisha Green and Erin McGuire. So I guess my first question would be, how did you start this work, Yasmin? Oh, how did I start this work? Well, I started it by growing up in Montpelier, Vermont. You know, my family moved here when I was 10 from Florida and we moved to Montpelier this summer of my fifth grade year and I was the only student of color in my entire middle school. And so, you know, my family being one of very few families, you know, of color, growing up in Montpelier, you know, had some experiences and it got, you know, us as siblings had to kind of get used to a really different environment than what we had known from our, you know, the beginning of our childhood in just outside Tampa, Florida. So that was really the beginning of my work, the beginning of my professional work began after high school when I went to college in Dublin, Ireland. And I worked for a nonprofit organization there that housed unaccompanied minors in residential units. So I was working with a lot of immigrants and new Americans, new American youth, or a new, new, they actually weren't Americans because we were in, we were in Ireland, but I was working with immigrant youth in residential situations where they were alone and had not come and gotten to the, to the country with their families. And so part of my job as a child care worker in that situation was helping them kind of integrate into the westernized into Irish society, helping them through the asylum seeking process, you know, helping them enroll in schools and kind of integrate into the city. And so, you know, that was challenging. It was a lot of fun and it was a great experience, but it really started to open my eyes into the ways that the system was actually kind of hindering their progress and slowing things down for them. So that was really kind of the beginning of my journey into this work. Did you say Dublin? Yes. So how long did you stay there? Four years. I was there all through my undergrad. Oh, wow. And so that, that was interesting, like you just said, right? Yes. I always wanted to go to Ireland and see those, those rolling green. Oh, it's true. It looked just as pretty as it is in all the books. I got to go there one day. Deisha Green, please tell us about, you know, you get a little short bio or working about yourself. I feel like I learned a little bit about Yasmin, like Ireland. So we got a talk. Okay. My name is Taisha Green. I am the director of racial equity inclusion and belonging for the city of Burlington. I started this work, like Yasmin, as a child, just growing up in segregated Kenkeke, Illinois, and then coming back through to Minneapolis, Minnesota, just, you know, being a black kid in white spaces. So my training, my formalized training, earlier in my career was IT. So I worked in IT for about 20 years and being the only black woman, the only black person in IT for my entire 20 years really helped me to understand the magnitude of the issue. It wasn't until I heard President Obama's farewell speech that I signed up to go back to school, get my master's in racial justice and my NPA in racial justice. And so I did that, finished that up in 2019. And here in 2020, I am in Burlington doing this work. I was doing it as an IT person at the city of Bloomington in Minnesota, just trying to push forth racial equity and racial justice. I don't work on diversity. I never have. Diversity is a very broad topic. It can mean anything, which means it means nothing. So I work on racial equity, racial inclusion and racial belonging. That's just a little bit about me. Wow. So when we talked before, you know, like I'm from Chicago, Illinois, and we have properties. And my folks build these summer homes in movement in Illinois and Cancun Key, Illinois. So I just go to Cancun Key all the time. I always go and get the feed for the chickens and all this cool stuff. And so I miss Cancun Key and the Cancun Key River. We used to do some fishing there. Oh, yeah. They have some good catfish in Cancun Key River. They used to. I don't know about now. Like, you know, things have been kind of toxic in Cancun Key River right now, but yeah. It's beautiful. It looks like one of the freshest rivers around. Yeah, back in the day, of course. And then you did some, did you go to school in Minnesota? I did. I did all my school in Minnesota. My undergrad and my graduate school in Minnesota. I lived in Minnesota for three years. I worked with Honeywell doing some work, and I lived in Golden Valley in Minneapolis. Right, right, right. We got a track record here. We do. We do. We got some connections here, so, you know, yeah. I haven't been going to Ireland yet, but we didn't do that. We didn't do that. Yeah, I was going to show us around. Yeah. So, Erin McGuire. Yes. Thank you for coming on the show. Thank you for having me. Give us a little bio and how did you get into the work you're doing? Sure. You know, I think similarly to many white Vermonters, I have observed severe systemic racism, direct racism to individuals and microaggressions to people I care deeply about throughout my childhood and throughout my time in Vermont. And I also have very strong connections familiarly into the LGBTQI plus community. And so those have driven me since I was a young person in this work. I entered education when I was in my 20s and focused in on special education. And I've been in special education working on issues of ensuring people with disabilities have access to education now for about 22 years. And that continues to be an important part of my work and in this role of equity and inclusion. I received a master's degree on special ed and then moved into doctoral program. And I would say that that's where my formal study of equity and inclusion work came to be and did that through UVM and I'm still in that process and had the opportunity to do some work with the Essex Westford School District in equity and inclusion. I'm going into my third year of focus formally in that way, but have been really trying hard to move the educational system related to inequities in multiple ways and with a race first lens on that topic really probably for a good 10 to 15 years and have made probably the most movement over the last year or so. I'm sure we'll get into that part of the conversation. But I also just, you know, I think my work is something that I'm always thoughtful of related to my own identities and privileges that I bring into any space. And I'm really thoughtful about that. And I think it makes my work look a little bit different. My own lived experiences are not marginalized traditionally. And so I think that through the conversation, maybe we can explore a little bit of that, but it is important as it relates to my own work in this space and what that looks like. Wow, those are great answers. So, you work in Essex. I do work in Essex. And I work in Essex too, in some respect for many years. I worked with the high school and different things around town and had a big meeting today with the Essex people. That's good, that's good. They talk really good about you. They say some good things. That's good. I think, you know, I appreciate that. I do think that, and I appreciate being here, but you know, this work is definitely not about centering myself. And hopefully I can share some things that Essex is doing and supporting BIPOC and the disability community and the LGBTQI community and having voice and representation in this body of work, because that's really definitely what this is about. You're a little more broad than, like Marguerite does some type of equity and inclusion, CEE, I don't forget what the acronym stands for. Yeah, the community on equity for Essex. Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, I'm not extra, and I send an email, I say, you know, I get, you know, I read over what the objectives are. But I asked her, I said, Marguerite, now when people usually use, when I had to work equity, I usually hear inclusion, equity, you know what I'm saying? She's running this long email, and which is awesome, she gave me what she had. And I said, I didn't see inclusion in it, nowhere in there, you know, but that is my little brain that's trying to, you know, figure stuff out. And so, so you see, Erin works with Tabitha Poo Moore and Keisha Ram. She got, you got a great team working with you. Yeah, I mean, I think that the people who are most important to center in the conversation while we have some incredible consultants or the people of our community who have done some really incredible work to provide the school's system clarity about what needs to happen around equity and inclusion at Essex Westford School District. So how many schools in your district? There are 10 schools in our school district. And what is, what is, like middle school? So there are, there are two sister elementary schools in Essex Junction, and there's, then there are, there's one in Essex Town, there's a Westford K-8 building, there are some three, four, five buildings, one in the town and one in the junction. And then we have two middle schools and Essex High School, as well as the Center for Technology, Essex. And so, how do you, I know we talked about this before the show, is getting trainees to people. How do I work here? How do I work? How do people get trained for equity and inclusion? How do I work? So, you know, one of the things that we started with was really understanding what the people, the students of the school really wanted to see us do, as well as community members and parents. And we have, oh, sorry, okay. We have taken thoughts from them and really centered our training on ensuring teachers have the skills to do a couple of things. One is how be able to have courageous conversations about race when that is something that's really important to be able to make sure that the materials that teachers are using to teach with are representing everyone and not in disproportionate ways. And then also to make sure that teachers are able to teach through multiple lenses. So, when we talk about teaching, whether it's a fictional story and making connections to it or whether it's about a historical event, that all of the people who were there are represented equally and that there isn't one perspective that situates itself over top of another. And the training that's necessary is really curriculum auditing with an equity lens. And we are using really reputable people who know this work really well to train all of our teachers. All of our teachers will experience that training this year, as well as courageous conversations, which is Glenn Singleton's work out of the Pacific Education Group. So, we're just trying to make sure to provide teachers with training that will allow them to have the skills they need to be culturally agile and culturally sustaining for our students and families. So, how many teachers you think have already taken the training through your school district? How many teachers have taken training related to—well, we've done implicit bias training for everyone, but that's not anywhere—like, that's just a very beginning, right? So, that has happened. And there are probably about 400 people who have had courageous conversations training. And then we have done sort of a whole variety of book reads. We've read Ibram Kendi's How to Be an Anti-Racist, as well as White Fragility as an opportunity for teachers to read. There are no—I mean, I could keep going and going. I don't have an exact number for you, but— No, because I don't know—because the reason why I asked that question is because in my—when I see equity inclusion, I believe—you know, I haven't seen it all my life in positions around the country. I have not seen it. And so, that's just me. But so, I'm asking because I think it's kind of new to Vermont equity inclusion. They added it to the curriculum or added it to their company policy or procedures and fair and professional policing and all these different things. So, I asked you that because it's fairly new. Not to say—I'm just curious how many of you know them. Not to say that you should have done this talk. I know that—teachers should have been trained. I know that Yasmin has also been in schools quite a bit and has a great deal of experience working in schools. I don't know if maybe she would be— Yeah, we'll answer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or you can talk about it. Yeah. I mean, I do think that there's—like you said—that there's a trend that is happening where folks are really starting to understand the importance of this work. And people are really starting to understand the importance of not necessarily just stopping at training and just stopping at looking at bookreads and things like that, but really looking at systems change now. And I think that that's an important piece in this work because we know that systemic racism exists and we know that that has been something that we have all—people of color and people who are underrepresented have been victims of for a very, very long time now. And the focus is starting to begin to shift at really looking at policies and procedures and how we are implementing the policies and procedures and who they are really affecting and who they're really truly meant for. And I think that public education in Vermont has really started to take that turn. I came from CVSD, Champlain Valley School District, prior to working for the city of Winooski. And they also are engaging in that work. They hired an equity director this past year that is beginning this school year as well. And so I think they've really started to dive deep and think about the 6,000-something students and adults that they have in their district and how their policies and how the way that they conduct business and the way that they present their educational opportunities are really geared towards the people who are privileged in their communities. And so they really want to try to change that and make those opportunities available for everyone. So really, I feel like that's what this is about. Yeah, I agree. And Yasmin, I met with the superintendent of schools there and the principal and assistant principal around some issues, you know what I mean? That's equity and inclusion and justice and racism. And I had to bring the heart here. And Yasmin, please come sit down with me and help me facilitate this meeting, man. And she's like all over it. And so I want to thank you for coming and meeting with those individuals with me. I think they learned a lot. And I know you still have some outcome for them. Well, thanks for that invitation. I mean, it really was an opportunity for me, you know, a big part of my job. I fully believe that being a director of equity really means having a vast network of community partnerships that is that are also engaging in the works of that, because we all know that not not one person can do this work alone. You know, this is something that everyone needs to engage in. It's something that needs to be encouraged. And I think that, you know, I wouldn't be able to do my job without having the partnerships that I do that actually I came into this position that we're already established by the city of Winooski and the city and the school district work very closely together in all of this work, as well as a lot of the community organizations, a lot of the non-profits that help to support residents in the city. Yeah, I know one of the things that somebody has said at that meeting was that, you know, you know, they're going by the policies and procedures, you know, and we're talking about like, wait a minute, you need to be trained at this yourselves. I mean, how do you, you know, have you had any trainings around, you know, equity inclusion and, you know, these types of, you know, diversity training and one silent, you know, and then you ask them, like, you know, when I'm going to help you, you know, see, you're going to give them some key points and see, you're going to work with you to kind of get you some trainings or get you involved, you know, you can learn and understand about people who look like us and plights and feelings and attitudes and beliefs, you know, maybe you can feel none of those things and, you know, it's okay, but at least you can get hear from somebody who does feel and who's educated and professional like you. And so once again, this is going to really help the city of Winnieski when they go to these trainees and because it's so diverse, you know, so many different types of cultures, just like your town, Burlington, that have individuals who have different cultures, different beliefs and they have feelings, you know what I mean? And you got to understand where they're coming from, you know what I'm saying? You really got to, it's hard to do if you're a white person, right Aaron? It's hard to do if you don't really don't feel it. If you don't understand, somebody say racism to me and that's who, this is how this hall started, when we say racism and they look like me, I get it. They don't have to, they don't even say nothing else. They said it was racism, it was racial, Bruce. And I'm like, right then, I feel like somebody tore something out of me. I feel like, oh, it's not good. Because I feel, you know what I'm saying? Another way to use that one word, boom, that's it, you know what I mean? I get it, you know, I feel it, I understand, because I've been there. So, so, so a lot of things people were talking about on LinkedIn, I was talking about it, it was somewhere where did, how did this come about equity inclusion? Like, there's a lot of positions that have been filled around the country, around the, around that title. And yeah, so I think people just gave it a name, you know, because it's something that has existed for a very long time. It's a need that has happened, it's a gap, it's a hole that has existed for a very, very long time. There has been injustice, there's been discrimination, there has been prejudice, whatever you want to call it. And I think that there have always been people, even prior to the equity directors of the world who have been doing this work, you know, they were the civil rights movement, you know, the leaders of the civil rights movement in the 60s, they were the suffragettes, even before then, you know, and so there have always been folks that have recognized that the system is failing certain people within our country, that are trying to lead this work. And I think that just the different generation depend, is what changes the name. But I think that it's always, it's absolutely always been there. So what do you think, and anybody can ask this question, what do you think, based on what Yasmin said, that it might not have been on the equity includes, that might not have been the name, but the basis of the work was already there. So what would you think, like Martin Luther King or Malcolm X, you know, even Frederick Douglass or somebody, what do you think they, what words they were to use, what do you think they're, I mean, how do you think, what words we could, you know, I know you're a civil rights movement or whatever, but what do you think they, how do you think that, I'm just curious. I think Malcolm X used, not Malcolm X, but Frederick Douglass used abolitionists and that's, that's kind of the vein that I'm coming through as far as what we need to do to fix racial injustice is to abolish the system, because the system isn't broken, is working as it is designed, and is designed to ensure that white people, that there's a racial hierarchy where white people will always land on top. And so the order to fix that system, you would have to break it, abolish it and create something new. And so part of my work here is just doing just that, dropping those seeds for that initial breaking of the system, and, and necessary, and making the necessary work and the necessary changes towards systems change, like people think that racism is an event, it's not, racism is a system, and we have to start thinking about it in that way, because if we continue to say, oh, well that was just an isolated event over here, and it's an isolated event over there, the same with the, with policing and, you know, black, unarmed black people being killed by the police, that's isolated, it's isolated, it's isolated, the masses of police don't believe in this, but it is the system that allows those things to happen. So we can't keep thinking about things as if they're just events, because they're not. And racism is definitely not an event. Yes, someone can come up to me and they can say, racist slurs and be racist towards me, that individualized racism does exist, but it's the system that has allowed and nurtured and made that, that person believe that they will be able to treat me in a certain way. So I think we definitely have to start thinking about abolishing some systems, I love the abolitionist vibe and feel to that. Malcolm X is probably one of my favorite people, my glasses are inspired by Malcolm X. And so I listen to Malcolm X and James Baldwin and read a lot of Frederick Douglass's stuff just to see what were they thinking when they were trying to change the system. Malcolm X didn't want integration. I understand why, because there are still places in this country where I cannot go and be safe. I can go to places in this country right now in 2021 and be killed and no one will bet an eye. So integration does not work, it hasn't worked. Now I don't know if we should be segregated or not. We are segregated. We're more segregated now than we ever have been in the history of this country. So something is happening. There's a lot of backlash that's happening and the only way to fix what's happening now is to abolish the systems that keep that stuff going and keep it in place. Malcolm X by all means necessary. That's right. You know, like man, that's another thing too. I had said that when I was looking at these discussions on LinkedIn that people are asking, you know, well, you know, all these positions have been created around the country. Does it mean that we really go into the back, people call it can we really go into the back room and actually help make decisions or should it be, you know, back rooms should be closed really. But can we still, now we can walk back there and work with all everybody and make decisions. The world is good now and, you know, we're not forgotten. We're included. I'm saying. Are we included? I haven't had that experience. I don't believe that people who was my degree in psychology. So I believe that it's hard to change the thinking that put us at well in theory at risk. You know what I mean? We're using the same thing to try to using the same thinking. You know what I'm saying? And so it's hard to change. Like I said, like you can't teach an old dog a new trick. You know what I'm saying? Or the master's tools whenever dismantle the master's house. I don't think that I think that a lot of which is why I don't consider myself a DEI professional and never will. A lot of DEI professionals think that you can change the hearts and minds of people. If that were your case, slavery would not have lasted 250 years. If that were the case, Jim Crow would not have been a law of the land for decades. If that were the case, black people would have gotten full citizenship before 1968. You cannot appeal to people's psyche and people's emotions and how they believe even what they believe. But what you can do is you can change the rules to the game because people will follow the rules to the game. So that's what I mean by systems change. You know, right now it's set up where they don't have to that mean they are following the rules to the game, but it's set up so that they will always end up on top. We want to change it so that the whole game structure changes. So now you got to learn a new game. Now you got to learn new language. Now you got to learn new terms. Now you got to understand that you are not the standard. My work is in decentering whiteness. To make white people understand, you are not the standard for me, my household, my friends, my community. We have our own way of doing things. Other people have their own way of doing things. You cannot no, you can no longer be the standard. Because right now the way that our government and our society is set up is that everybody is measured by the standard of whiteness. The closer you are to whiteness, the better off your life will be. That's just how it is. Whether it's skin tone, whether it's how you portray yourself in public, whether it is, you know, stepping on your own community to be closer to that whiteness, those are the ways that you can succeed in this country. I want to abolish that. And so the best way to do that is to decenter whiteness, is to remove said standard that shouldn't exist in the first place. What do you think about that, Erin? Yeah, I mean I, I do agree and, you know, a huge part of the work that needs to be done in education is to decenter whiteness as the standard and as the, all of the examples and all of the cultural norms and the expectations for everyone and I concur. I mean I think that the entire education system is predicated on that concept and, you know, I mean I, I think the most recent conversation that has finally come forward in education that is way overdue is the stories that we tell students in classrooms. I mean the stories we tell are the stories of colonialism and of economic gain on the backs of people who were stolen and forced here and, you know, that is the story that has been told for hundreds of years in schools and, and that contributes to all of this. I mean, you know, we in, in the Essex Western School District our equity policy starts with a statement related to where this country came from and why we are where we are right now and it is related to the, the theft of land and the genocide of people and, you know, to say that out loud and to change the story and to help students especially white students and white families understand those pieces is necessary. You know, I agree that it is very challenging to change hearts and minds. I will say that in our educational system part of our focus is to change the experience of students so that they grow in understanding and have skills related to identity, related to justice, related to advocacy and social justice to ensure that they know and understand these issues as well as experience an educational system that does not entrench them. So, what do you think? I mean, I think that you've got a panel full of people who all agree with each other. I mean, what I agree wholeheartedly with what Taisha was saying and I don't really, I think it was really well put. I'm not sure if I could have put it better myself. You know, I think about in, in terms of the city of Winooski and I think about, you know, I'm often asked the question, you know, how will we know success in this work? Like how will we know what this is going to look like? How will we know that we have succeeded in that? That's a really difficult question to answer because, you know, for me, success looks like recreating a system that is not static, that is recreating a system that can ebb and flow and evolve with humanity as it changes and as it evolves and as we have new people coming and going from this land and, you know, we are demographics in our cities and everything how we change. We have to create systems that can change with us. The system that we're working in hasn't changed since it, since it was developed and that doesn't really make a lot of sense. So, I mean, and that's the challenge that we're faced with, with recreating these evolving systems. Yeah, we refer to a document that's, you know, created in 1776 as if it is gold. And that same document is the same document that said Yasmin and you, Bruce, are three-fifths human being. Right. So that means we're two-fifths animal. We refer to that document and we hold up the founding fathers as if they've done something spectacular. But what they did, like Erin was saying, was genocide, theft of land and genocide and bringing and kidnapping people and bringing them over here and torturing them for hundreds of years. United Nations describes genocide as not just, you know, death of the physical body, but death of culture, language, etc. So all of the descendants of enslaved people, like myself, we don't know what our name is. We never will. They stole that from me. I will never know what my culture is ever because they destroyed all of that. So that is genocide of the culture that I, to which I belong. I do not belong to American culture. My story started long before my family members were brought here and changed. And I think that a lot of people need to understand that and reckon with that and deal with that. There's something I'm trying to deal with myself. Yeah, it's tough, you know, being a people like us. I'll tell you, nothing is really tough for me. It really like I was blindsided and I was like a totally surprised that Donald Trump who won presidency, you know, who just won and then who just lost, you know, who said that he can grab women anywhere, that he can shoot somebody on the street and he'd be all good, and that he told his, he told everybody to storm the Capitol anywhere his own vice president is, you know, and he's bluntly to say out his mouth, whatever, that was this racism, all kind of things. Half the people who voted, voted for him, I'm like, how could that possibly happen? How could that happen when people, when they talk about women and this and that? How could that happen? Anybody have, how did that happen? Look at how this country has treated its women from the time, I mean, even when the Independence Day is such a farce, it's such a farce, like you are celebrating, we as a country go out July 4th, here July 3rd, I don't know why they do it July 3rd, that's odd, go out, do the fireworks, have the red, white and blue, all that stuff and not even understanding or recognizing that the only people that were free were white men who owned land. So if you didn't own land, you weren't free either. And then it took hundreds of years for white women to be able to vote and have some sense of freedom and be able to own land and property and all of that. Look at how this country has treated anyone who is not a white man who has economic power. Even today, how does this country treat anyone who is not a white man with economic power? How do they treat their women? How do they treat their children? How do they treat black and brown people? So I'm not surprised, I wasn't surprised to see all those people go up to the Capitol and act a damn fool. I wasn't surprised by any of that because that's who we are and we need to start telling the truth. What we saw on January 6th is what America is and we have to stop lying to ourselves. We're not the moral authority of the world. We never have been. You cannot be the moral authority and have people in bondage for hundreds of years. So I wasn't surprised. I wasn't surprised that Donald Trump won. I was actually surprised he lost this last time. Oh God, I was holding my breath because I thought he was going to win again because I understand this country. I know who this country is and that's who the country is. I remember when I was a kid, they had Thanksgiving, they had the pilgrim shaking hands with the Indians and then the Indians got a fish, because they showed them how to put it. And I'm glad they stopped doing that because what the pilgrims did to the Indians, you know what I'm saying? Here, thank you, here's some small blanks and small parts. Take over your land and whatever. The hot pitiful is that. So that's the same type of theory and think that how long ago was that been? What was it? When did Columbus come over here? 1492? 1492? That's that indoctrination system that is our education system that I'm talking about indoctrinating us into a racist society and having us believe that we are somehow less than and having us erase all the indigenous people from that story. That's what I'm saying. To date, so I see how they got their blinders on when Trump say, I can grab women here, I can shoot them out on the street, I see how white people wear these blinders. Just like when President Obama, this we're talking about including but jumping in anybody anytime, when Obama ran for president and won, I thought that was the worst time anybody can run for president, three wars and recession. And then people say, well, he started the wars. He created the recession and the smartest thing, one of the smartest things he was doing was trying to make the economy better. What do you call it? Spending money on ourselves. How smart was that? Let's build our bridges and our infrastructure. We use our money to invest in that, build our own stuff. How smart is that? And then just get people to working and then spending money revitalize the system. But I thought I was one of the smartest thing he did, but one of the most smartest thing he did, I think at the time, which I'm glad he won, was run for president with three wars. So people blamed that on him, all the wars and the recession, they blamed that on him. Come on, man. Well, how you got, you know, so I know, I get it. It's hard for me. My physiology, I'm getting a warm right now. I can feel myself. I mean, I gotta, you know, you know, do use an invention. Bruce, they never had to learn about us though. No, never. So it's not even, you know, at some point, I mean, you can blame white people, but at some point you can't. Like, if they're not racist, then they're not paying attention. Like that means that they truly have on blinders. They have on blinders because there is no value put on understanding race. They don't even believe they have a race, you know, that their race is constructed. They don't know. And it's like you have to, you know, that value is not put there. Their value is put somewhere else, you know, people don't have to do it. That's the thing. They don't have to learn about you. They don't have to care about you. They don't have to love you. And that's how the system is set up. They're going to go to school. We couldn't even learn about ourselves. Exactly. Everybody else's history, but ours, you know. But so saying all of that, you know, and I think I'm getting, I'm cooling off here now. Good. What about, tell me again about how would all that fit into, Erin, how do you think all that fit into like equity, you know, how do you think, you know, based on all these things, do you feel that anything is going to change besides education? I know Titian was saying policies and procedures, we got to change the laws. We got to, we got to make them do it. But, you know, the, Useless, you tell me what you think about. I mean, I think deconstruction of policy and reconstruction of the rules is part of this work. And I am, I do worry a little bit about, I think training is important. I worry that people lean on training and then check a box and what we're really talking about our systems. The data in the education system, in my own school district, as well as in other school districts, the data related to the criminal justice system in Vermont is very clear about what the rules of the game are creating. And so, I think that, I think that everyone needs to begin to understand and then dive into deconstruction of policies and laws that perpetuate the inequities in the system and create redesign. I think if we just, I think education needs to change and we were just talking about all of that and how that needs to happen and what, what representation in materials and perspectives of what stories are told and whose stories are valued and who is erased and who is showing up in the curriculum is critical. And we are going to need to write policies that change that because I think related back to the like goodwill has never changed that story. And so, we do need to create policies in education, in the criminal justice system, in public institutions, in institutions of health and mental health that, you know, we need to, we need to revisit, the system needs to revisit itself with this lens and seek and remove all creations of inequities that we can find. Yes, so. Want to do it? I said, do you want to do it? All right? Who wants to I kind of feel like we're trying to do, we're doing something right now, you know, but, you know, so my question to you guys is like, if you believe in changing or mending or getting rid of policies and procedures, where do you, I was going to ask you the same question, what do we, what do we start at? I mean, you know, I don't, God, it's so best up, you know, I, you know, like you were saying, it's about the Constitution, you know, saying, where do we start? We start by making sure that the decisions that are being made are represented by the people that are the most impacted by them, because that's what didn't happen from the start. You know, our founding fathers were making decisions for an entire nation full of people who didn't necessarily look like them. You know, in Winooski, we have the largest population of immigrants in all of the, I mean, I think the northeastern sector of the New England states, and there are, we've just barely, you know, I think we're starting to scrape the tip of the iceberg, Winooski passed the all voter registration, you know, the all, so now all residents can vote in the local elections, and that's a part of it, because that helps for the people who are being impacted by the policy change, being impacted by, you know, what is going on in the city to be able to come to the table and put down what it is that they want and be listened to in that process, and that's a huge part of my task as well, you know, making sure that people who, that the city, that the municipality represents the city that we are serving. I think that it gets lost so often in government and in educational structures. It gets lost that the people who are in charge are in positions of service to people, not leadership, not, you know, I don't see myself, I don't see myself as an expert, Les Taiisa said, I don't see myself as an expert or, you know, the be all end all of equity. I see myself as making sure that I'm serving the community and bringing their voices to the table, making sure that our systems and our policies create space and create inclusivity to be able to have them sit in these seats right here, you know, it should be residents who are sitting in these seats, it should be the people who are living the life, you know, on their boots on the ground who are at the table making the decisions, it shouldn't be people from up here, you know, I'm really focused on the grassroots kind of effort within the community, and for me, I feel like that's where it starts, you know, given power, literally given power to the people. No doubt about it, I always say like, I work for the people who I serve, you know what I'm saying, they don't work for me, you know what I'm saying, and that's true because I try to have youth boards around the state, you know, I mean, they tell me what they're, what to do with our mission goals and the objectives that they want to do, programs, projects, and events, they, since we created them, youth form boards, you know, remember, right, when they sit on the police commission, the planning commission, school board and all that, and it's got a new resolution to include more boards and taking away some other, some, adding some more voting rights for the students. We're going to start recruiting these youth pretty soon. And so, I get it, you know, I work for them, you know, they don't work for me, you know what I mean, I'll get nothing done, you know what I mean, if I use all my little brain to try to make decisions for everybody that I work for, and so it's important like, you know, like exactly what you're saying, that we need to boost on the ground and work, you know, work, listen to the people who we work for, you know, and so that, I know that's a big deal and that's a big, big step, you know, that, you know, for anybody who wants to try to get into that, it's hard sometimes, but they got to think about, they can use their own objectives and they got to ask the question, you know, to people who, who maybe look like them or people who they serve, you know, and I know the answers are incredible. So, here we are, man. I'm like, what a big deal, I knew this was going to be a big deal for me anyways, you know, and it is, you know what I'm saying. So, what's going on, what's going on, what's going on in school districts? How can people get involved in trainings or volunteer or what, any of those things, internships maybe? So, well, in the Essex Westford School District, we're in the process of creating an equity advisory committee that will be made up of students, parents, community members, teachers, and if appropriate administration who really are able to represent identities who have not had a voice at the table to the point that Yasmin was making, I, that application is coming out and people should apply. The policy in the Essex Westford School District was written by a BIPOC affinity group, a Black Indigenous and People of Color affinity group with a lot of intersectionality with other identities and that group of people wrote the language of the policy was not written by the leadership, it was not written by the school board. The school board ultimately is responsible for accepting, adopting, creating policy. They did vote that policy in and it creates space for this type of advisory group and that advisory group has a series of responsibilities to inform curriculum decisions in the district, to inform our monitoring of our progress, to inform policy decisions and procedural decisions and also ultimately to write the procedure for the Essex Westford School District for the equity policy. So, that's a way for people to get involved. There's a group that I co-chair with the Community Justice Center called Voices for Inclusion in Essex and Westford and it's called VU and that is a group that is open to community members. Our work is to hold events in order to bring awareness to issues of equity and inclusion across the community. We just did a community conversation centered on the book by Isabel Wilkerson called CAST. Last night actually there's a series of events that have happened around LGBTQIA plus needs in our community and anyway so that's an area for community members to get involved in and be active in and there's also a Racial Justice Task Force that is centering on policing in Essex and partnership with the Community Justice Center and the Essex Police Department given some of the needs specifically related to policing in Essex and that is a group that is also available for people to reach out to. I don't think that any of these are the answer and I think that it's just important that people become involved and use your voice and reach out to trusted people and you know it's also there's a group of people who are really anti-equity as well so I think it's important to call that out and say that exists and it's happening and it's happening in Essex and those conversations are all intertwined and we're trying to move ahead. Policy is a central piece and so is education and awareness and there are a lot of ways to get involved and you know if you're interested I'm always available for outreach. Sure and so it's a lot of good work you're doing in your district and DL Evans is also the director of Community Justice Jill Evans. Yes Jill. She's incredible she's awesome with the Community Justice Center. Just so you know I'm a founding member of the Justice Center across the state in 1998 and so so yes I do want to work with you and see how I can ways I can help you know you know I do so we'll talk about that. So what's how people can be like volunteer be interns or how can they what can they do? I'll carry your bag you know I'll carry your bag. Oh thank you thank you but no I can manage. I actually just ended well we'll be ending our summer internship program next Friday. Today we're having a party for the interns we have seven of them and and we're going to do that every summer. As far as volunteer opportunities I'm sure there's going to be several we just had Juneteenth and we had over a hundred volunteers for that. That was that was pretty amazing. We had more volunteers and we had t-shirts and I know I ordered a hundred t-shirts so and for the volunteers so that that's going to be gearing up soon here we it's a big event so last year we started planning around September I think we should do the same again this year. Most of my work though is focused right now on the two police studies one of which is Talitha that is finished and the other one is CNA that comes out next Friday well I should have it on on August 27th and I'll look that over with me and my team and and get and prepare to to release that that information to City Council. We just finished our strategic roadmap that had a lot of engagement we had BIPOC listening sessions and this whole strategic roadmap will inform my work for the next three to five years so we are diving into that report and it's a lot there a lot of investments need to be made in black and brown communities. I am I just received all of the grocery store gift cards today for it's a hundred thousand dollars worth of of gift cards a hundred to five hundred dollars each. I'm going to work with multiple community partners to make sure that we do kind of like a back to school kick off with that with that those gift cards and working with Burlington Public Schools new Alpha Missionary Baptist Church feed feeding Vermont feeding Chittany and Vermont Food Bank and like we have all these different partners that are going to help us distribute these cards to the people who need them the most. The reason behind that program is that I know what it's like to be hungry. I was that person that that kid that had to stand in line and wait for a box of food and you don't know what's in it and it's most more often than not it's not culturally appropriate so I wanted to give people a little bit of dignity back to be able to shop the way that they want to shop for their children and also be able to buy things more than just food you know school supplies whatever it is that they need so two grocery stores are involved in this effort that's Hannah Ferds and City Market. We got the money from donations from Vermont Community Foundation and the Vermont Federal Credit Union and so they are financially backing this effort and hopefully next week we'll start handing out some cards. I had a great time at the Juneteenth event thank you for all that's incredible really good work and let me know how I can help you you know anyways you think I'm the best at you know so I had fun at Juneteenth and I was at the Roosevelt Park one yeah and I was hanging out with the Mary was hanging out and listening to Louis Cardran on the stage that's my friend Louis and wow my friend Uesmaquo did a double dust she was like we're going to she's going to do double dust it was really a big deal you know and it was so nice the day was the best thank you it was a beautiful day that day yeah it was it was so nice and um and so yes please do that I don't know how many people were there but god it was thousands yeah it seemed like it anyway I we had we had five different locations so yeah I know I know I don't have an accurate count but there's a lot of people and so I just want to tell you too Erin I was at the SS one with uh we saw that was nice too I was there with the Chiefs and Uesmaquo was the Community Economic Development Director for SS and we had a great I read a little story out of the book you know so that was cool as well and um you know I was at the Winooski one with my friend thank you for hooking that up see it was nice so I went to all three because I gotta represent my Winooski in my town but I was actually doing some things at the other ones so um so how can people can you uh can you how can people get involved with the Winooski um equity inclusion program volunteer um so really what you know the way that people can get involved in Winooski we're still kind of uh you know we're a little bit we're new to all we're new to this work right now you know I came on in May and so we had the Juneteenth celebration which was most was very much largely put on by downtown Winooski I don't want to take credit for that because they had you know pretty much organized it by the time I even started the job and so they asked me of course you know if I wanted to be a part of it and I did um but they did a they did a great job it was a wonderful little celebration and I think the people of Winooski really appreciated it um but so what we're focused on right now in Winooski is conducting us an audit study of the city and of our services and of kind of how the municipality serves the community and so we have hired we have hired a consultant that is from Washington DC that is going to come in and for the next five months they are going to conduct a citywide equity audit they are going to be ample opportunities for community input I really enjoy this this consultant in the way that they're approaching this work they are very much focused first on outcomes and then they work backwards to find why the policies why the structure is not meeting the outcomes and so the focus of the audit is going to be on um listening to the community similar to kind of what Burlington did with listening sessions focus groups community night community input nights um many many opportunities for residents to come to the table and really you know very honestly let folks know how the city is doing and what their needs are that are not being addressed and not being fulfilled and then that is all going to happen this fall so if folks want to get involved in that there are going to be plenty of opportunities that are going to be starting in the month of September and we're working really hard with um other you know with some non-profit organizations to make sure that we can um that we can compensate folks who come to be involved in those situations because a lot of them you know we're going to do our best to make sure that we cast a really wide net and make it available to everybody in you know multiple through multiple pathways but we would really like to reward we really like folks um who are participating in that to be compensated for their time and so you know we'll be looking we'll be making a really big effort um to look for donations for that purpose as well um and part of that is going to be funded through the working communities challenge grant that was awarded to the city specifically for this work um and so I'm really excited about this effort it's been um you know a really interesting process not having a city manager um well as I came into the job our wonderful city manager left the week that I began and so we've had you know two wonderful staff members who have been co-interim city managers on top of their regular duties but um I think it you know that's also an opportunity that we that the city has right now um that is going to be fulfilled I think that position is going to be filled in the month of September so I think that once that position comes in um they're going to be very supportive of this work as well and we're going to be able to um to do a lot more than we have you know over the summer um and then the second focus that we're really of course working on is you know getting the city clerk's office ready for the next election cycle because we now have the new charter for all resident voting um and so that is going to be a big focus of the equity audit as well is to really make sure that we create a system that is going to be inclusive in that way to get as many people to the ballot boxes possible um so that is going to you know that's going to include elements of education for the community you know prior to um it's going to include elements of encouraging um residents to to run for positions to run for city council to run for you know um positions within the within the city um and so you know there's going to be a really really large push um an effort to get people informed in that process as well and that's all kicking off next month so thank you for the informative information so I'm gonna ask you guys one more question you can add to anything you can you can add say anything you want you know after this question um so first we let you know I'm the democratic chairman or democratic party chairman for this game um because you want you know women help you with anything or you know people who might be interested in running for a certain position I like to talk with um so as one of the commission I have a help plan put you know help approve some of the master plan that's now is how's the equity inclusion going to be put in part of that master plan that we're doing so the equity inclusion um there are pieces of the master plan there actually is an entire section in the master plan that is targeted towards equity and inclusion for the city of when you ski and that was developed um during you know that was a result of the equity summit that they had in 2018 which is really kind of the kickoff for all of this work um so there's actually an entire I believe that there is a resolution within our master plan that talks about being able to bring our more underrepresented and marginalized voices to the table part of that strategic plan was the creation and the hiring of my position right I know so all right so thank you and so Taisha what about um racial you know inclusion within the btv plan the strategic plan the strategic roadmap um you're asking about what's in it I mean is anything about racial and equity and diversity yeah all of my work is about racial racial justice like I said earlier I don't deal with other parts of diversity my focus is solely on race sometimes you have intersections that come with that but for the most part my focus is is solely and only on race and racial justice because that party is that going to be in the btv plan is that in the plan that's that was in my job when I accepted the job when I was still in minnesota um that was that was my desire to only work on race and not to add in in all parts now I am a woman uh I am a lesbian so I do have other intersections I do have a disability I have all these intersections but my focus and my my specialty is on race and racial justice we need you right we need you to be wherever you want to be especially on race because you're very knowledgeable and appreciate your talents and professionalism and I'm glad to know you I will call you every time I'm sorry but I just got to so Aaron what about the s's plan I looked at it I I got a big book this thick what the plan so um are you asking about the municipality component or the school district equity and inclusion is that in in the plan it's in both I believe although my expertise is specifically with the sx westford school district and the sx westford school district continuous improvement plan has um an underlying foundation of equity at its core which is why that policy was so critical um and you know sx for a while was not inclined to situate leadership in a position specifically we were talking about that earlier we did end up doing that um but the reason that that held for a little bit uh at the inception of the plan was because it's everyone's work this is you can't you know and if it is only everyone's work and there isn't a clear structure to move forward and a plan that clearly expects forward movement we know historically that it doesn't and so so yes the plan has a substantial component of equity and inclusion at its core and also all the way around it um and and touches each and every person one of our primary focus points for this year is diversifying the educator workforce as well as the staff workforce and especially leadership and and the school board um you know the the diversification of each of those entities is really really essential um to shifting um and that's about hiring it's about our practices it's about the rules and the ways that we consider lived experience um in the in or don't consider it in the interview process so oh yes it's all inclusive there's a nine-part equity plan with for the sx westford school district that's available and online um that people can take a look at includes the relationship between the school district and the police it includes professional development includes student voice that includes curriculum auditing um it's yes so the answer is yes in lots of ways well thank you don't want to thank all of my wonderful guests jasmine taisha and erin for joining our show straight talk for my show thank you bruce this has been great i know i learned a lot and i'm sure once it airs we'll a lot of people will learn a lot too you know so please let me know how i can help you you know i gotta help you you know i mean just like i said i'll just carry your bags whatever i don't have a problem with it you say bruce come take me to lunch i'll do it i promise you i'll take you up on that one there's a lot of good places to have some tacos right down the street right now if you want to go down there so all right thank you for joining the straight talk for my show and i'll talk to you the next time bye