 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. In this episode of The Mind Pump, this is like an oldie. The Mind Pump show. This is like an oldie. It is. We didn't have classic style. We didn't have direction when we opened up this episode, but it turned into a great topic. Well, we started off by doing our normal bullshitting. We talked about Instagram and the changing market for nudes. That's Doug's bullet point. Changing market for nudes. We talked about London cracking down on knives over three inches long. Yeah, hide those butter knives. Hide those butter knives. We talked about sucralose and Crohn's disease and also how sucralose may actually not only kill good bacteria, but promote the growth of bad bacteria. Watch out for that shale game. Double whammy. We talked about how there's no bad fats found in nature. We love all those natural fats. Stole that from Max. We did. Thanks, Max Lugavere. And then we got into kind of our main topic. Adam asked me about a blog that I had written on the Breakdown Recovery Trap. Great blog. Now, this is, you know, I throw that in there. Oh, that's a good one. The Breakdown Recovery Trap, it's a term like we came up with a long time ago. And basically, this is what it means. You go to the gym, you get really sore, you wait a week, let your muscle recover, heal, it no longer hurts anymore. Go back to the gym, follow the same process. But every time you work out, no more progress. No progress. You're not getting stronger, you're not building any muscle. It's called the Breakdown Recovery Trap because you break your muscle down, recover, break it down, recover. No progress whatsoever. Now, in the show notes, you're going to be able to go right to this, right? So we're going to put this in the show notes. Yeah, you'll be able to go to the blog and read a little bit more about it. But we talk a lot about it in this episode as well. So they're nice companions. I suggest you obviously listen to the blog, excuse me, listen to the podcast and then read the blog and you'll get the most information that way. Also, this month, I am so shocked at how, well, I guess I'm not shocked. This is one of our most popular promotions. We're giving away the No BS six pack formula for free. This is a workout designed specifically for your midsection. I guess everybody's trying to get ready for summer, right? Everybody wants a six pack. We're giving it away for free. Shirts are flying off. If you enroll in any bundle, bundles are when we take more than one maps program and we put them together and we discount them by like 20% to 30% off the original retail price. So it's a great deal if you ask me. Again, free No BS six pack with any bundle or you can get individual maps, programs, all available on our site, mindpumpmedia.com. You know what I'm starting to see get real popular on Instagram? What? Pages that are not human. Like people's pets. No, people's pets. My boys have a page. Yeah, I know that. Yeah. Mazzie and Bentley are on their way to fame. You know, you're like those parents that put their kids in show business. I was really hesitant to do it because I don't know what it's going to agent. It's going to hurt my ego when they pass me. Oh, they will. Why would you? Way cuter. No, it's like those people that put their kids in show business to get famous. Put your dog until your dog takes your court. Next thing you know, they're on cocaine and just doing crazy stuff. Imagine you got to be careful. You don't want a dog doing, especially a bulldog doing cocaine. No, what I see that's crazy right now is, I mean, we've seen this since Instagram started and it's more and more popular are the pages of girls that are pretty much naked. I mean, I didn't realize how much you can get away with. I like where we're going. I've never seen those pages. Adam, wait a minute. You're telling me on Instagram, there's pages of. Well, I was talking to Katrina about this the other day and I'm like, you know what's crazy? Or it's crazy for me, I guess, at least. I guess I'm dating myself here. But to see, I mean, my thread is flooded full of these because of course I follow all these pages because it's business related. I'm thinking like, OK, these girls have built big, large pages. I got to do my research on exactly what they're doing. Did you follow all these pages before Mine Pump? Anyway, continue. Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, that was the idea. That's how that's how Mike, if it wasn't for all those pages, we wouldn't have been on the Build Mine Pump tour. It is today. So exactly. Thank you all you Instagram models for helping me out with the algorithm. Exactly. No, so really, though, a lot of them, what they do, it's like it's like modern day prostitution. Well, you mean pornography. Oh, wait a minute. You're talking about the ones that actually. It's like modern day prostitution. Or I guess kind of like pornography, too. I mean, a lot of them build up a large following. They get hundreds of thousands of followers, some of them millions, right? And then they have a Patreon page. But it's not like it's not just give them money or that. They have these pages that. And so they put the pictures on Instagram. Now, Instagram doesn't allow you to show nipples or clit or anything like that. So they put like a little more than that. But yeah, a little. No, I think it showed top of vagina. You just can't show clit. Bro, you could show everything. I'm so careful about the words he uses. You can see the line and everything. Yeah, the top of the line. The top of the line. I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah. So, oh, really? So anyways, they blur it. They blur just a little bit out. Camel toes, OK. Yeah, stuff. But you have to add to the conversation. If you want to see full nude, you go to their whatever website they're working with. And it's like an exclusive content. Yeah, $8 or $9 a month. And now you have access to your favorite Instagram model naked all the time. And I'm not going to lie, dude. If I was a 17-year-old boy or so, I mean, I would be invested here. So it feels OK. So smart business strategy. I'm thinking about this because I wasn't familiar with this. This was such a big thing, that part of it. I know that I did know that. I think you might have told me that some girls will have like, there you go. Hey, if you want to buy me a gift. No, you showed me this. Hey, if you want to buy me gifts, you know, I have like, don't they have like where you can go and see the things that they like and then you can buy them stuff? Yeah, that was like an Amazon wish list. Well, there's an app for that. We were down in LA. Remember that there's, I forget the name of it. And there's, they call these girls something. There's a name for these girls where, you know, it's like. Sugar babies? Yes, that's what it was. You know a lot more about them. He sets me up and then he fires all the answers. It's just logical. It's just logical. If you're going to buy us this sugar mama, sugar daddy. Oh, yeah, it's just, yeah, like, anybody could have figured that out. Yeah, so they have that. But I'm more, I'm more fascinated in these. So, I mean, and I'm not hating either. I mean, these girls. It's a business. Yeah. You know, so, I mean, these girls are. We're just like the webcam girls. I mean, this is just a natural thing that they could help to market and drive traffic towards their, you know, site. Which is like, makes them a lot of money. It's not prostitution because they're not having sex. So, and it's way, I think it's way better, obviously safer. But here's, so I'm looking at the whole market. And this is what I'm thinking. If I want to see naked pictures and stuff, that's free. It's so free and so available online that it's just, it's ridiculous, right? Port pornography is get, I think, sites get more visits than anything else on the internet. But these girls are still having people pay them to see their naked pictures. So, what it makes me think is that they're trying to connect with these followers so that the followers feel like, oh, they know me because they answered my question once or they liked my comment. And so, because it's different, you know, it's different to look at pictures of a, imagine this, imagine if you're watching porn and then you, you see a girl and you're like, wait a minute, that's the waitress that always serves me, you know, coffee every morning at their coffee shop. It's way more exciting because you feel like you know her. Oh, because you know them, right? Or they might even interact. A lot of these girls are smart. They interact with their audience. It's no different than any of the social media business. Except they're so excited. Right, but I, it's smarter. I mean, Jesus, so you dropped the supplements for sex. Imagine a 17 year old boy, like you were, it was like getting ahold of a Playboy magazine. We've talked about this before. It was like gold, right? It was such a big deal. But you're flipping through a magazine of girls you've never seen in your life and probably never will see in your life, right? Or definitely not communicate with. If I had the ability to actually follow them on Instagram and text them and they're messaging back and everything like that. And then I'm also getting to see nudes and it's only costing me like $7.99 a month, like. So I had a situation. I would be really, someone is a mind pump listener and you're like, you're into this business. I'd be so intrigued by the type of revenue that you can make based off of how many followers. Which is why. You're actually in a relationship at that point, right? Basically, like you're my girlfriend. Which is why we are creating a separate Instagram page for Justin because we think there's money. We think there's millions there. There's a lot of money in those cakes. And those cakes are worth quite, we haven't been sure about it. I might have to start doing those crush videos, yeah. They're just like smash stuff between my cheeks. Adam's hand. There might be a market for it. We'll have Sal do the butt shots. What do they call those off there? Where they pour the waterfall. That's the newest thing on your backside and Sal takes a shot of it. So what we're snort some lines in there. What we're talking about reminds me of this. Only one time did I ever run into a situation where I saw someone naked who I knew outside of that particular sphere or whatever and it caught me off guard. So I went, let's see, God, I'm trying to remember which club I was managing. It might have been the 24 hour on Sunnyvale. So I'm managing a club. I'm like, I don't know, 20 maybe. And my staff always used to go out once a week. My staff would go party and hang out, whatever. And I never really wanted to with them because I thought off I crossed that line. Might not be a good idea. There was a couple of them that I would go out with, but not too many, not all of them. Plus that was only 20. So I couldn't really go in anymore, right? I wasn't old enough to drink. But strip clubs, I was old enough. So I remember one particular close out we did really, really well. We broke some records or something. And my guys, my sales guys were like, we're taking you out. So they took me to a strip club and they're like, do you ever go to the strip clubs? And I was like, I went to like one when I was like 18. I'm way too good looking for that. He's other people. No, which is true. I never, I think at this point I'd only gone to strip club maybe once or twice in my entire life. Like once when I was 18 and I think that was it. So we walk in and the girl that's on stage that's dancing was a girl that I used to train when I was a trainer when I was 18. Wow. It was this Asian girl. She was super shy when I trained her. She would giggle a lot, you know, sweet girl. She was, you know, moderately attractive. We walk in and she's there on stage. She sees me. She runs down and gives me a big hug. So now everybody's like- A naked hug? She had, at this point she wasn't fully naked. It's awesome. Naked hug. Yeah, at this point she wasn't fully naked. Score. She runs down. Now I guys get those. She goes literally, oh my God, Sal. She runs down, gives me a hug. Of course, now my staff's looking at me like, oh, you've only come here. You've never come here before. Yeah, but you're known by nature. I look like a regular, you know what I mean? She brought me to the stage and does this whole like new dance for me and it was the most Amazing time ever. And awkward. You know what I mean? Because it was like someone I knew. Was she awkward about it or was she actually stoked? No, she was excited. Oh, there you go. And I wasn't excited till later. Yeah, that's- I'm too nervous. Dude, I remember when we, so one of the trainers we like showed me and we realized the trainer that had worked with us was like in a porno. And it just blew my mind. I was like, I know who this is. This is crazy. You're talking about somebody who worked for me? Yes, you know who it is. Of course I knew who it was. Well, I don't have any stripper store. Right down her name on a piece of paper. That's the only one we know. But yeah, that was weird, man. Yeah, accidental porn. It happens. Accidental porn or unexpected. Unexpected. I just think it's interesting to see where it's going and I'm sure there's a huge market for it. What I'm seeing now too, which is like modern day pimping, is you're seeing, so you see these girls are building pages. Now there's companies that are organizing the websites so they're better, they're nicer, they're cleaner, they look more professional, they look classy, you know? And then they go find these girls that already have built the social following with the half naked pictures and stuff. And then they feature them on this page. So this page now has, you know, 20 or 30 of these Instagram models all on this page and they charge $7.99 or $9.99 or whatever. So I love- This would be a decent site. You guys know I love digital pimping. You guys know I love economics, right? I love looking at markets and how things work. Absolutely. So when you look at things like this where you're selling, you know, either nude pictures, a pornography or sex, men don't even come close to the earning potential of women, right? Like how much money are men making on these Patreon sites? Oh yeah, nothing like that. Where they're like, hey, for $9, I'll send you- I'm just gonna throw money at you. I haven't found any of those. I've been searching hard. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So could you imagine or like porn stars- You should start one and just like, you know, have a competition. Or like, dude, here's the thing. Okay, nobody's paying for dick pics. Nobody wants to pay for that shit. No? No, not at all like male porn stars. Half of them work for free. The women make a ton of money. It's sexist. Well, it's sexist, man. We need a law. We need a law to pay them equally. The markets flooded with dick. That's true. That's what it is. Now, and I agree with that. You made that statement a long time ago on Minecraft. Now, the question I have is, is the market getting flooded with vagina and ass? Is tits and ass becoming like- Is it overwhelming? It is, but it's also the demand is so high for it that there's always a market for it. Is it flooded? Of course. Like again- It's like gold. Yeah, exactly. So like- It's peaking. It's peaking. Well, here's the example. It still holds more money. Could I sell a magazine with random nude models today for 10 bucks? No. Could I sell a magazine with like celebrity nudes? Yes. Could I sell you a magazine of neighbors and people you grew up with that are naked or whatever? Yeah, exactly. So the market's still there. It's just not the same, but definitely no market for men at all. You're not making any money if you're a dude and you think you're gonna sell money if you're- Well, I'd be curious to see- Self picture yourself. You know, personally- Or barely a market. I haven't subscribed to any of these things. So I don't know what it would be like to actually be paying monthly on this. I joke about actually doing it when I was younger, but maybe I wouldn't. Maybe their Instagram is enough for me as a young boy like that I would have been like, uh, I don't wanna pay $79. That cuts into my baseball card funds every month. You know what I'm saying? Like maybe I wouldn't- Nobody collects baseball cards. Remember, we're talking about old me. You say this is old me. Oh no, back then you would have paid everything. Yeah, you're- Well, you say that- I'm gonna have to sell my king- But if you have access to the Instagram, I mean, if you have access to their Instagram and their whole page is like pretty close to new- I mean, it's Instagram allows Playboy Nude. Like that you can be like Playboy Nude on Instagram now. Well, you can't do- You can't be Hustler Nude. It's just an airbrush. You can't be Hustler Nude or Girl Next Door Nude, you know? Or Penhouse. Yeah, or Penhouse Nude. But you can be like Playboy Nude on Instagram. Like old Playboy Nude. Yeah, you know what I mean by that, right? Like 1950s. Yeah. Yeah, Playboy Nude. Yeah, like champagne bottles and everything covering your hoo-ha, you know what I'm saying? Oh my God, I know exactly the picture you're talking about. It's a little blurry. I know the exact nude picture you're talking about. With the champagne bottle. How weird is that? It's not weird. What does that make us? Like some kind of brothers? Buzzing brothers? Eskimo Brothers. No, no. Whoa, whoa. I don't know. I just know brothers. Too far. You know, I like the Ramon shirt you're wearing right now. Thanks, man. I do too. I thought it came out great. Wait, let me see. It makes me want to rock and roll. That's our new one. Oh, that's the Mime Pump one. Yeah. Because I requested it specifically for myself. Bro, I don't even take any more of our shirts. I have a whole section that is like Mime Pump map stuff. It's ridiculous, dude. Yeah. I'll never need to buy a t-shirt again. Never again. Listen, I'm ready to rock and roll. You know, like that's like my mentality these days. So I'm just, you know, I want to embody that, you know, for you guys. Dude, we were all the same. I knew it. I knew you guys were doing that. Let's just go for a second, like whoa. And get real uncomfortable. Whoa, that wasn't uncomfortable at all. Dude, I think you should lead an interview today. Just lead it. Just go with it. Yeah. We should interview Sal today. You want to interview Sal? Yeah, I think we should just go with it. I thought we were talking about a blog and we were talking about like Instagram. I'm the easiest person to interview ever. You know what I'm saying? You'll be like, hey, Sal, I'm going to do a show where we talk about you and I'm like, cool. Yeah. I'll do that all day long. It's my favorite subject. Dude, so check this out. I don't know if you guys saw this in the news. So I did an Insta story post where it's a picture of a butter knife. Yeah, I'm not going to lie. I didn't get that one. You didn't get that? No, no. So you don't know what's going on? No, I don't know what's going on. It's a picture of a butter knife and it's got the Union Jack, you know, the UK flag. Like come get it or something. And it says come and take it. So first off, come and take it. That's a phrase that second amendment supporters will say, like hardcore ones. Oh, about their guns. Yeah, like you want my gun. Come and take it. You know what I mean? So we're it's like poking fun at the UK with the butter knife because what can only allow knives? No. This is not no because so and it's a London. First off, the UK extremely strict in comparison to the US extremely strict gun laws. Almost nobody owns guns in the UK except for criminals, right? So, you know, just the bad guys have guns, which is a good idea, I guess. But anyway, so in London just recently, London's murder rate just surpassed New York City's murder rate. Now, both similar size cities, similar population, that's serious, but their murder rate just passed. It just passed the New York City's. They don't have guns. So the mayor goes on the news, basically, and he's like the mayor of what? The mayor of London Mayor Sadiq Khan says, I mean, I got a very British name. No, not at all. It's it's it's already illegal to carry a knife that's longer than three inches in public without good reason. Basically, if it's not for work, that's so sure you get caught with it. Yeah, you get caught with even make them that small. No, they don't. It's like a Swiss army knife. Yeah, exactly. It's like to clean your nails. So if you get caught with a knife bigger than that, you get big trouble. So then he does a post a tweet or whatever and he says, no excuses. There's never a reason to carry a knife. Anyone who does so will be caught and they will feel the full force of the law. And what he's doing is he's telling the police to like frisk people who they think have knives on them that are, you know, bigger than three inches or whatever. Cooligans. God, how how hilarious. You know what? I think jokes that you have to explain to people are less funny though. Well, I was like, I saw that one. Like he's butter knife going through as me. I always go through sales memes and I'm like dying laughing. And then I tend to always hit one where I'm like, okay, that one. I didn't get that one. Sorry. That's like my jet ski joke. You know, the other day on the mind pump. I was bad. The jet ski joke. Yeah, you didn't see what he did. No, what did you do? Completely bombed. I was I was doing a caustic squat and it looked like to me in my head look like I was jet skiing and I'm like, it's jet ski season. Get out your sunblock or something. Yeah. Everyone's like, it went way over everybody's head. You got no, no response. Nothing. Nothing. Ice cold. Ice cold. I've been on a cold streak lately. So what do you guys think about this, this, this knife thing that they're doing over there? What are they going to do when they, when they, when murder rates keep going up and people are using like hammers and shit or cars. Right. Or other stuff. Well, first of all, I thought London is significantly bigger than New York. I thought that's not true. Population wise it's comparable. Yeah. Oh, it's comparable. I think it's the biggest city in the world. Yeah. No. Up there. Hong Kong. Who is it? Who is it? It's definitely not. What is it? Doug knows this. I think it's Shanghai. Oh really? Yeah. I feel like Doug just said Shanghai properly. Shanghai. Shanghai. I thought it was Shanghai. No, I thought it was Shanghai. That's what I thought too. Did I say it wrong, Doug? Is it Shanghai? I don't know. I'm just trying to be fancy. You know what? He pulled a salinist right there. Speaking of fancy, my daughter, my daughter says she was talking and she was making up this accent. I love her sense of humor. And I'm like, what are you doing? She's like, I'm trying to talk in cursive. Who said that? My daughter. That's hilarious. I thought that was so brilliant. She really said that? She's like, I'm speaking in cursive. That's super witty. I'm like, wow, that is really smart. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, good luck. Good luck, London. I hope everybody gets safe. Here's the way I look at it, man. If I'm in a city where murder rates skyrocketing, I'm carrying something. So I know pepper spray. Are all these murders attributed to knives? That's gangs and muggings and whatever. We got like switch blades. Like what kind of weapons are they? I have no idea. They hold them. So you know what? There is one place that has the strictest, like the strictest loss, like no knives, no guns, no, like super, super strict. And they make shives instead. It's called prison. Yeah. You should see how many people get stabbed in there. Anyway. So there was another article I want to share with you guys on sucralose. And it was a study that just recently came out. Which one is Splenda? Splenda's sucralose, right, Doug? Yes. That's correct. Thank you, Doug. I appreciate it when you answer. So Splenda promotes. This is a study that was published March 15th, 2018. It is a new study. Splenda promotes gut proto-proteo bacteria. Dyspiosis. And another big word with Crohn's disease. Can't pronounce the word. I'm going to try and pronounce it. It's myeloperoxidase reactivity. So what they're showing is that if people with Crohn's or something consume Splenda, the odds of them getting massive flare-ups is quite high. And of course they're showing really not good for the gut microbiome. Not good at all. And Crohn's being an autoimmune issue, just more evidence that these artificial sweeteners are probably not a good idea or at least not a good idea for people with potential inflammatory issues. You know what I'm saying? I know Adam, once you stopped drinking artificial sweeteners, what did you notice with it? Because you were a big consumer. You're bringing this up because of what you seem to be talking about right now. I know. You're trying to set me up right now, right? I'm in here with them. I'm trying to take them out. I have a monster drink today. I paint a little homage to our friend Dr. Lee Norton. So my girl occasionally buys these and she gets them two for $5 and every once in a while she leaves one in the refrigerator and this morning I was getting up and I was like, you know what? I just feel like something a little bit different today. I'm going to have a monster cancer drink. And so I popped that open. I've been sipping on that today. You don't just want cancer. You want monster cancer. Right, right. Yeah, no. I notice myself retaining water. That's the biggest thing that I notice. I wonder if that's from inflammation. It could be. I don't know. So when I was competing like the Coke zeros and the artificial sweeteners were kind of the last things that I would clean out of the diet. So I typically take the bigger rocks that were going to make the biggest difference in changing my physique. And then as I got closer to stage, I would start to even cut those out because I did notice like my body responds better when it's not in there. So but it's also because what the study is showing is that and there's other studies that show stuff like this also is that it. Sucralose kills or weakens or damages your good bacteria, but then it promotes the expansion of bad bacteria. So it's like a double whammy. Not only is it hurting a lot of the beneficial bacteria, but now it's also promoting the expansion of bacteria that may cause problems, including and they did this study on on on mice E coli overgrowth. So I always wonder, like with things like that, do you think we are? I mean, I think I know the answer. Sorry, but I want to hear you articulate it. Like, do you think it is more risky to have, you know, your Coke zero, your monsters, your artificial sweeteners when you are in a calorie deficit or if you're in a calorie surplus context always matters. Right. So calorie surplus in many cases, not every, but in many cases, probably may promote inflammation may, you may not be as healthy now. You can be unhealthy with a deficit too. And just like you can with a surplus. So context matters, but I think if you're eating a law, you're gaining body fat, you, you're not healthy. And then on top of that, you throw artificial sweeteners. It's got to be a lot worse. That's, that's what I think. Yeah. It's got to be the way I've always used it. It's been kind of like, you know, this, if I'm not having anything to eat, that's been kind of like a, this gives me this sweet. Like when I was competing and restricting from so much, it's like, okay, it gives me this sweet taste that I just do not have in the diet whatsoever. So I've always thought that it was a lesser evil. If I was allowing it in there when I'm in this, you know, calorie restrictive diet versus, you know, pouring it on with, you know, like you see, which is really common. Somebody goes through a fast food restaurant and then they order a Diet Coke. You know, it's like you're eating this 2000 calorie fucking bomb. Oh, I see what you're saying, especially in a meal. Right. I could see that being a big problem. Right. That's what I'm saying. Because it usually doesn't follow. It's not like many times you consume these things. Well, in our world and fitness, when are people, yeah, see, there's another one. Sucralose may worsen Crohn's disease symptoms. Duh. We've done this for a long time. Your, many times when you're consuming supplements, which most supplements, unless they're natural, are flavored artificially. And most of the artificially flavored supplements use sucralose because a while ago, Aspartame was demonized. So they all went to sucralose. So think about the context, right? If you're consuming a supplement that's artificially sweetened, it's either in an inflammatory state because it's post-workout or intro-workout, or you may be consuming it with other products and supplements on a regular basis. So that all makes a difference, right? Right. That should make a huge difference. I think it's like the, you know, we're playing charades here with it, right? I don't know if that's the right metaphor. It's not charades. What's the like the fucking... Rochambeau? No, no, no, no. Pictionary? No, it's like we find out an artificial sweetener is like Aspartame. The old switcheroo. Yeah, right? And then we come up with a new one. That's not the game I was thinking of though. I don't know. It sounds like that. I don't know if that's a real game. I see Doug's brain being racked over there. He's like, I know I'm good at these games. Trivial pursuit. Yeah. So that was a bad metaphor. Sorry. But that was rampant water. You know, it's like ramps in water. They keep ramping up. You've been hanging out with me too much, man. They just keep, they just keep replacing it. It reminds me of the same pro hormone or, you know, designer steroid race or game that we used to play in the supplement. You got it, Doug? Shell game. Yes, Doug. Thank you. That was the game of the word I was like. I like switcheroo. Shell game, not charade game. I was close. Thank you, Doug. I didn't even know there was a game called the shell game. Yeah. I know what you're talking about, but I know that was called something. Thank you, Doug. What's the Rochambeau? I feel like that's Rochambeau. That's Rock, Paper, Scissors. That's Rock, Paper, Scissors. Ro. And charades is the one where you act out, you act out whatever it is you're trying to get to drop. Which is not what I wanted to say. Why do they call it Rochambeau? Yeah, I have no idea, but that's just what it's called. But don't you think that's what's happening with like all, and you know, our buddy's over with no foods. What's the new artificial sweetener now? Oh. It starts with an A. Yes. It starts with an A. That's the big one. Same thing with the quest. Allulose. Quest is onto it. How they got things to taste so damn good without using all these normal artificial sweeteners. And so my prediction is we're going to see some of the similar things that we've seen with aspartame and now sucralose. I think you're going to see with, is it allulose or I don't know how to pronounce it. That's allulose. I'm sure they're already like looking for the next sweetener that they can sort of shuffle to once that. Right. It's a show game for that. As soon as you do that, we just pull that out, replace it with something else. Allulose, I don't know if it's synthetic. It's classified as a rare sugar because it's naturally present in a few foods. Wheat, figs and raisins contain it. Interesting. 70 to 84% of the allulose you consume is absorbed into your blood. Yeah, but again, what they do is they take it from these natural things, they extract it, and then we fucking multiply it by a thousand times and put it in. Yeah, process the fuck out of it. Yeah, that's true. And you have to ask yourself, you know, was our bodies designed to be able to intake a concentrated form of it that much all the time? And maybe in small doses of it, or maybe if you compare it to those levels, it's not a big deal, but I think over time as you start consuming all these foods that have it, I think it's inevitable we're going to be going down the same path that we are with Aspartame and the other ones. Yeah. And when will this end? I mean, how many different, how many hundreds of different types of sugars are there? I mean... There's a lot, right? Yeah, there's a lot of different things that can make things taste sweet that have less calories or whatever. Really interesting. You've got to, I mean, that's a good point. It's like, they'll figure something out. They'll see, is this legal? Cool. Does it show, you know, are there lots of studies on it? Maybe not. Well, the ones that exist, what do they show? It might be safe. We think it might be safe. Cool, we'll use that. Right. And that seems to be the... And I doubt we have nowhere near as many studies on Aluos as we had on Aspartame. Yeah. And once we do have that many, I bet we're going to start to see some correlation. Isn't Stevia already sort of becoming like super condensed where that's becoming problematic? Because they're just like using it in everything. There's more and more process forms now coming out of Stevia to make it. Yeah. And even Stevia, look, Stevia is a, although it's a relatively low calorie or almost no calorie natural, you know, sugar substitute, it's still a plant that has some potential actions in the body. Right. What was that mouse study? Well, so here's the things, Stevia has been used for a long time by, you know, different cultures. So there's different kinds of evidence that you use when you're looking, or that you can look at. There's the, how many scientific studies have been done, evidence. And then there's the, how long has this particular thing been consumed by people and what do we see there? Which one is more trustworthy? Well, if you have both, that's the best. I would, I'm more likely to trust, like if an herb came out, let's say a Chinese herb came out, and it's been used for 10,000 years in China. And you're going to learn a lot about that herb, or know if it's safe or dangerous and what it causes, because it's been used for a lot, by a lot of people. Historically, yeah, you can go back and look at the population and how everybody was affected. That's it. And what's funny about that is when they come out and take these herbs that have these, these, you know, proposed benefits or whatever and side effects that we've known about for 10,000 years, and then we study it scientifically, we end up confirming it, of course, like, oh, okay, Jinxing does do this or doesn't do that, or here's a side effects of a, like a fedra, for example. A fedra is present in Ma Huang, which is a, a nat, sounds like a mid-term, sounds like a mid-term. Yeah. You're wet. Ma Huang. It sounds like I just made up that word. Yeah. It's a, that's a natural herb that's been used in Chinese medicine for a very long time. And Ma Huang is used for asthma to treat lung conditions because it interacts with receptors in the lungs. It opens them up and helps you breathe. And in fact, it does this to the sinuses as well. That's why Sudafed, which is pseudoephedrine, you know, helps open things up or whatever. It's been used for a long time, but in Chinese medicine, they'll tell you all the side effects. Don't use this if you're nervous, if you're anxious, can cause a speedy heart rate. Don't use this for too long. Here's how much you use because they've been doing it for 10,000 years, you know what I'm saying? Did you see the, I think Max, I know you guys all follow Max now. I love Max. I know. He puts out some really cool statements and he did one on fat. I want to find it so I can plug him. Oh, about the process. Yeah. Just like, there are no bad fats found in nature. Yeah. And I think that's such a great statement when you think about that. Like the only fats that are bad are the ones that we've fucked with. Now, the ones you do find in nature, you can make them bad by like, for example, olive oil, which is a very, very healthy fat. If you cook with it, it can make it unhealthy because it's not stable. Right. Certain temperatures. Yeah. So you want to eat it, you know, in its natural state, which is just. Yeah. It's his last post right here. It says, nature doesn't make bad fats. Humans do. Yeah. Such a great state. Saturated fats are what you want to use for cooking because they're really stable. So the funny thing is back in the day, you know how bad lard used to sound to everybody? Oh, yeah. Like, that's one of the best things you could use, if you're going to fry or cook at high temperatures. Yeah. Lard, that's what you want to use because it's stable. All these cultures had it right, man. That's right, because it's stable. McDonald's used to fry their French fries in beef tallow. Did you guys know that? I didn't know that. When we were kids, when we were kids, McDonald's French fries were, they were fried in beef tallow. And then the story goes, I'm not sure if this is true, so this is just, yeah, something I remember. Don't worry, someone on the form will correct you. I'm usually right. So anyway, a vegan, I'll argue it. A vegan sued McDonald's because they bought the French fries and then they learned later that it was fried in beef tallow. Oh. And so then in McDonald's now, and for a while now fries their French fries in vegetable oil and the story goes that in order to keep it so that it tastes the same, they had to add more shit to it so that it tastes like it did before. Fucking vegan. So they sued. Why? Just because they weren't like full disclosure with like what they're using. You didn't tell me OZV. Well, you remember there was a small, there was a kick there with what started the, now you have to put the calories up there when people were suing these fast food restaurants for getting fat. Remember that? That was about what, 10 years ago or so? Would you say somewhere around there? I think that's, I always found that hilarious. That's hilarious, dude. That you sue a fast food restaurant. Only in California could you get away with some bullshit like that. You did this to me. Yeah. I hate it. Which ironically, now that the calories are up there, people are eating more. It's, yeah, it's actually had the opposite effect. Yeah, cause people, people look at the, the menu that's, that posts like how many calories. And instead of being like, oh wow, that burgers a hundred less calories. I'll probably get that one. Instead they're like, wow, if I had bacon and only adds a hundred calories, cool. Imagine being the CFO of like McDonald's when that, when they first found out they're going to have to put calories and like, oh no, we're fucked. People are going to find out it's tons of calories and they're making more money. Oh, the salad has like more calories than this triple cheeseburger. I'm going triple cheese. I remember the first time I looked up a jack in the box salad cause back in my early trainer days, we reduced it like that. Right. And I used to eat like the cob salad from there. And it's like 1700 calories. I was like, I should get the ultimate jack. Dude, I remember, yeah, I remember that when it was at the cheesecake factory and I looked at the, the breakdown and like the, the salad itself, the other cells too was like the highest on the menu. Yes. I was like, what? And then you just see these little ladies just like eating it, like going to town. Like, yeah, I mean a salad. I've gained weight and I've only, I just eat three salads a day and I'm gaining weight. I must have a damaged metabolism. No, you know, this, it's funny we laugh about this, but this is something that Taylor keeps trying to remind me about us is like, you know, you got to remember to visit some of these things that we think is just so obvious that wasn't that, isn't that obvious for a lot of people. I think that you're going to get a salad somewhere and you think, a buttermilk crouton is probably not a good idea to throw in there. Yeah, exactly. No, no. You're right, Adam, because like, you know, we have, this is, I just had this conversation the other day with our team that manages our marketing. Our marketing and stuff and they were telling me to, you know, that they wanted me to write more blogs. Whenever I write a blog, we get more interaction than when some of our other authors write blogs. And by the way, we have some great some awesome people to write some good content. And so they want, they are encouraging me to write more and they tell me, like, write about, like, basic stuff. Like people, you think, they were telling me, like, you think people don't want to hear this because you think everybody knows this, but they don't. Nobody does. So revisit some of these, you know, these early topics or whatever, because, you know, what I consider, you know, common knowledge for me I've seen some of the, what's one of the last ones that you just, what's one of the last ones that you just wrote? The one you messaged me on was the breakdown recovery trap one. Yeah. Which, you know, early on when, when Doug and I first put together maps and then we're trying to market it, that was one of the first videos I wanted to film. In fact, I think we might have filmed, did we film a video on this years ago? Yeah. That was one of the ones you showed me when we first, before we even met, the breakdown recovery trap video. And I thought it was brilliantly, brilliantly put together and was like, dude, this is the message that more people need to hear. And it hit me home, it hit home with me because I was like, man, this was a lot of how I trained for so many years and I remember when that, that was a paradigm shattering moment for me. Train hard, recover super hard. Yeah. I remember when I started coming back off of not, or not going to failure and two reps short, short of failure and seeing the gains that I was seeing, I was like, man, this is hammering like you think it is. And so... No, it's a trap. A lot of people get, and mainly because, I don't know about you, but for me, I thought recovery meant adaptation. I sort of, I thought, I used to explain to people, clients exactly this, when you come in the gym, you know, we break down, we tear fibers, then when you go home... Sore means good. Right, we break down, we tear a bunch, when you go home, you rest, they repair, they strengthen, they adapt. That was exactly the way it made sense to me when I was first coming up. And... And that's not really what's happening. The... The separate mechanism, right? They're separate, yeah, the recovery is healing. So, when you damage your body in the gym, when you work out really hard and get really sore, your body aims to heal. Now, that damage can send a adaptation signal. And so, here's the difference between recovery and adaptation. Recovery is healing. So, it's really aiming to become more resilient to future stresses or... or... to become better at what you do most. Okay, that's what adaptation is. So, if I'm, you know, sending a signal to my body that says, it would be beneficial for me to be stronger so that I don't hurt myself when I keep doing this, or it would be beneficial for me to be stronger because I'm obviously doing a lot of this. And so, the body's always trying to be better, I'm more efficient than you do a lot of. That's what adaptation is. But healing is not that. So, you can hammer your body because this is what I used to think. I used to go to the gym. I'd get... And a lot of people still do this. I'd get really sore. And then I'd be like, okay, I'm sore, so I need to recover. And then the soreness would go away and I'd be like, okay, I'm cool now. I'm done. Let me go back and work out again and start the cycle over. And when it ends up happening with this particular cycle of hammer your body, get sore, wait for it to rest, recover, which usually is about a week or five days or something like that, especially if you hit it really hard. Then you go back to the gym and you're at the same spot. It's like there's no progress. Like, okay, I got sore last week. I feel like I recovered. I wasn't sore anymore. Why am I not building muscle? And it was to the point where the argument became, well, maybe you're not fully recovered. Remember that? Like maybe you need to rest longer in between body parts. A bodybuilder who's popular in the 70s and 80s, Mike Menser, used to talk about this a lot and used to tell people that they just needed to rest longer. And he would have, sometimes, people hit a body part once every two weeks because, well, obviously, you didn't come back stronger. That meant it means you need to give your body longer in between workouts, which is the exact opposite. Oh, yeah. And I remember the first, the very first time I realized that training a sore muscle actually would cause it sometimes to grow and adapt even faster. Blew my mind. This was, I remember specifically when I first encountered this, I was working out, I've been working out for a long time, but I was training to get fit because me and my family were going to Italy. And I hadn't seen my family in Italy since I was maybe 12. So it'd been, you know, at least I think it was like 10 years since I'd seen anybody in my Sicilian family. And they all knew I was into fitness. They all knew I worked out. They all knew I was a personal trainer. So I wanted to, like, impress them and, and plus my family really values, like physical strength and all that stuff. So I'm like, I want to get really in good shape, but I want to get really lean and cut because I'm going to be going to the beach. And this was the first time I really got myself down to being able to see like a visible, like, good six pack. Besides when I was like a 13 year old boy and I was skinny as hell. And so I remember thinking I'm going to try training my whole body twice a week instead of once a week because up until this point, it was all body parts split up until like 21, 22. It was chest on Monday. I know the exact split. It was chest Monday, back Wednesday, shoulders, excuse me, back on Tuesday, shoulders, Wednesday arm the next day. Then it was legs and then core. If I, if I came on on Saturday, which I never did. So it was like, you know, one body part a day type of thing and you rest a week and hit the body part again. Again. So I thought, well, I'm going to, I'm going to try hitting everything twice a week and see what happens. So I started combining body parts. So like Monday would be like chest, biceps and Tuesday was back and biceps and Wednesday was legs. And then I repeat the cycle. So six days a week. And I remember going back to the gym and thinking, oh man, I'm still sore. Like my chest is still sore from Monday's workout. Is this going to be a good idea to like work it out again? It was that specific split you mentioned has been like the formula for so many years. Yeah. Yeah. And so I remember I went to the gym. I'm like, I'm still sore. This is so counter to what I thought was I was supposed to do, but what I'm going to do instead then is I'm going to go really easy, which so intuitively I knew I should go easy. Right. So I went in, went easy, worked out and it was, I was tripping out over the weeks that my body was just, I was building muscle, which was weird to me because I was training my body while it was still sore. And then I started realizing, oh, if I don't go to failure, then I can train a little harder on these workouts. And that, you know, that of course led me to understand training more frequency and all that stuff. And then I started to understand, wait a minute, because then I thought, I did this thought experiment with myself and I've actually given this example many times in the podcast. I thought to myself, okay, what if I hit a body part like crazy hard? Like let's say I wanted to build my arms and I went to the gym and I did like 45 sets to failure. Like I just went nuts, like just crush my biceps, crush my triceps and then laid in bed all day long up until the next week to work it out. So all I did was hammer my body and then give my body everything it needs to rest and recover, literally just lay in bed and drink, you know, weight gainers and eat food and all that stuff. And I knew through that thought experiment that what would happen is I'd lose muscle. I knew this because I had injured my leg before. I'd had injuries where you couldn't move a body part. And what ends up happening is you actually feet very fast, very quickly, like put your arm in a cast, do it for a week and watch how much muscle you lose in that week, even if you work it out really hard beforehand. So I started to put together this idea that maybe recovery, maybe that wasn't really what adaptation was. Maybe that was just healing. And so then, you know, that's what the blog is about, is about, you know, this breakdown recovery trap that people get stuck in and they don't realize that, you know, damage, although that can signal adaptation, it's not the only thing that signals adaptation and that, you know, damage, you know, promotes recovery. And if you keep hammering damage, if you keep pushing damage, your body will prioritize recovery. Because think about it, when your body is presented with two options of adapting or healing all this fucking damage that's happening right now, it's got to focus on the healing part and you're just not going to progress. I still remember when this, like, light bulb went off for me and it was, I don't know, it was a good 10 years ago or so and it kind of accidentally happened. And I kind of, I remember reading stuff about, you know, after your body's recovered, it only takes about three days for atrophy to begin to kick in and then I thought, well, shit, if that's the case, you know, by day six, I'm already going the other direction. Like hitting it once a week makes no sense if I'm already, if I'm after three days after recovery, like frequency, I've got to pick that up somehow. I remember reading that and then I remember, it fell in a time when I was really, I was training really hard and consistent and I was heading into a two-week vacation. In fact, it was like the first two-week vacation I'd taken in, like, my entire career working in the gym ministry and we had just grand opened the Milpitas location, 24-hour fitness. And I had all the time in the world and I didn't have anything really planned to do and I was on my workout kick and so, my buddy was managing that gym at the time so I would bring my food to the gym and I hung out at the gym, like, all day. And what I would do is I'd, like, start off, I'd walk and kind of back then we didn't call it priming but I was, like, getting my body ready and priming and stuff, get into a workout after the workout, sit down, bullshit with him for a little bit, eat, but I basically split, like, a high volume workout over, like, three workouts in the day and I only had two weeks to really do that and I was pretty consistent for that week. I saw the most gains in my body in two weeks that I'd ever seen before and it was, like, holy shit and that was kind of when that frequency light bulb went off that I had been, I had been under-training so many of my muscles for so long and that was probably what was contributing to the plateaus that I had been and I had really seen it really develop and change in my legs because I remember I was always that guy, I could only hit legs once a week because... You went super hard. Yes, because I would do 24 to 30 sets, you know, wanting to vomit. And you got to get your hamstrings and you got to get your quads, like, like, isolate them and it's like, oh my god. Imagine being 6'3 bro, it's a long ways, man. That's a lot of movement, a lot of blood, a lot of calories. And you know what sucks about that, being in that situation is if you're somebody that doesn't put in a lot of hard work and your body isn't looking the way you want, you're not developing muscle the way you want, you can always be like, well, I'm not working out that hard. But I mean, we're all similar in this respect. If we all want something bad enough, we're going to fucking work. Yeah, work is not going to be the missing piece. Yeah, that's not going to be the missing piece. How frustrating is it when, you know, like you, you want to develop your legs, they're skinny, you're like, fuck, I want to make these legs grow. So you do what you think is right, which is go to the gym, work out for two hours, beat the shit out of yourself, and then your legs still don't grow. It's like you're doing everything, you're busting your ass, you can barely walk for three, four days and you're still not growing. You're thinking to yourself, it'll never happen. When I made that switch over and it was such an, I went like it's such an easy transition. I just went, I just went, okay, I'm going to start splitting that up over, that workout over three days, you know, and it felt like I was almost cheating myself. The first time. I remember that. I was like, I didn't even have like a massive pump from it. I wasn't sweating. I didn't get nauseous. I was like, okay. You didn't need a spotter. And then to see my legs just start to balloon up from that. I thought, oh my God, I wish somebody would have fucking told me this a long time ago. You know how many leg workouts where stepping off the curb, I fell, you know, or laying in the gym afterwards or vomiting afterwards? So many workouts like that. You guys bring that up and it's very much from a muscle building perspective. Like I'm in the gym and you know, I'm trying to build muscles and look bigger and like from a body building. Like I had the same exact experience, but more from athletics, like we were in the gym altogether as a team. And I just remember specifically hitting and targeting and isolating muscles, which we were doing like body builder workouts. And then right after that, like the next day we go to practice and do like movement drills. And I just remember being so fucking sore and ineffective like in my movements. I was like, I just hated it. And then like later on just intuitively, I'm like, you know what, I'm not going to like max on this bench or this squat today. And once I started to do that, it was like, oh, I could move better and like, you know, my body was responding more. And then I kept doing that. And then on top of that started to combine legs. Like just like with you, like we were doing legs all in one day. I'm like, I'm doing cleans. I'm doing back squats, you know, I'm doing leg curls. I'm doing, you know, leg extensions. And I'm like, dude, my legs were just fine. That being said, I feel like there's more validity to a athlete doing that than a body, but someone who's trying to sculpt their body, right? Because with you like building your gas tank and, you know, pushing yourself to failure and stuff like that, it definitely, I think it hinders your building muscle. But I think it does serve you at least on. Stretches your capacity. Your capacity, your stamina, your workload. I think it does well for that. So, but if you're a bodybuilder, you don't give a fuck about that. I don't care about workload or capacity or stamina. You know what I'm saying? Like I get on stage. I get to take my shirt off. Like I want to look fucking badass. But still I would build more muscle, which then, you know, like I could carry that into the season. We're doing this in the off season, thinking that, you know, like obviously like the endurance portion of it, if I was to kind of push that like further, further into it, like closer to actual season time. If I timed it right, it would have been way more effective. It's just, it's so crazy when I, I mean, I'm sitting here listening to you guys talk and I'm thinking, and it's so crazy how wrong the fitness industry has been with a lot of the things that they've been preaching. It's insane because it's been around for a little while. Do you think it's more so wrong or do you think that it's the, the message that they want to give because it's what sets you up for the other shit? Oh, no, no, no. I don't think it's unintentional. I think it's intentional, but think about it this way. When fitness advice was first coming out, muscle building advice was first coming out. They recommended what we talk about on the show all the time. They talked about training the body frequently. They talked about not lifting the fit. I know this because I buy, you can buy some of these old fitness books from the, from the old timers, you know, old strongmen or whatever. And you can, I mean, they're not great books, but I'm a, I'm a bit of a muscle building historian, right? I love reading stuff on Eugene Sandel or Lewis Kyer and all these other, you know, old timers. Can you remind, can you remind me since you said it, sorry to interrupt you, but you just said something that I, I wanted to revisit that conversation that never, our audience never got to hear because Barbell shrug and we're, we're hanging, we're hooking up with Galpin when we're in Paleo in a couple of weeks. Yeah, we should do the whole podcast about that. Yes, yes. Please remember to, he, he, in my opinion, is probably the only person I know that knows, that knows even more than Sal in that, in this area. Like he's such a great person to get that into that conversation. So anyway, I, I, you know, you look at all these old, you know, muscle building books and they're recommending stuff that works and then it got changed. And I think part of it is, you know, anabolic steroids. I think the event, the promotion of machines and equipment because let's be honest, if you're doing 20 sets for chest on one day, the odds that you're going to want to use machines is going to be much higher than if you did, you know, seven sets, you know, today, seven sets another day, because then you'd end up just picking the, the big gross motor movements instead of, you know, all these different machines and stuff. Yeah, some more effective ones. So, and that's what happened. The information was so wrong that you have, what you're listening, you're listening to a fitness podcast, podcast right now with three guys who have a combined total of something like 20 years of professional, obsessive experience in fitness. And what I mean by that is we weren't just in fitness for a long time. We were obsessed about learning about fitness, both personally and for our clients. And it took me so long to piece together what really works. And it wasn't because I learned it from these magazines and books and personal training certifications. I learned it through my own trial and error and my own ability to be open minded, because I'm going to tell you something right now. When you, when everything you read, every, imagine this with any other industry, everything you read, every piece of information you read, muscle building, fitness, personal training certification, everything. Has an agenda. When everything you read says, train a body part hard once a week. When they all say that, it's like, that's like, that's like, that's your Bible. Like, oh, this is, you don't even question it. So you have to be, first off, you have to do this for a very long time. You have to be open minded enough to do the opposite. It would be like going in the stock market and trying to buy high and sell low. Like that's the opposite of what you've always heard. You know what I mean? It sounds crazy. And so all of us kind of discovered that on our own. And as I think back, I can piece together all the clues, like the first time, because I can go back even further. I can go back to when I was 21 and back when I had that gym down in Palm Desert. And back then I was taking the, this was when the gray market, designer steroid market was real big. So I'll take all those things and I'd get all, you know, I'd balloon up and get real strong, whatever. And I wanted to get to a 400 pound bench press because I'd never, that was like a big number for me to even, you know, come close to getting to at that point. I think the most that ever bench was like 315. So what I did was is every day or so, I'd go and put relatively heavy weight on, not max out, but relatively heavy weight. And I'd walk over the bench and I do like a single or a double with it. So it was like 70, 60 to 70% intensity. And I did it because somebody that I worked with told me, hey, you know, I have a buddy who got his bench press up to 400 pounds and this is what he did. And I thought it was stupid, but I finally said, you know what, I've tried everything else, like let me give this a shot. And I couldn't believe how fast I got stronger and how fast my bench press got up. And I eventually think I got up to like 380 or 390 so I don't think I ever hit 400. But nonetheless, like there's a clue right there. There was a little clue. And little by little, I started piecing these little clues together, but it was all counter. It was all counter to what we had learned. And I thought to myself, it would be crazy to train a muscle if it was sore. I used to tell my clients, oh, if a muscle sore, don't train it. Like you got to let it rest. And then later on realizing, oh, if I exercise a sore muscle in the right way, it actually not only does it recover faster, but I get like more out of it. A big one you said earlier too that I think is such a great point and then I remember this piece coming together for me too was there's an order of operation and there are exercises that are superior to other exercises. We know this, right? Like a barbell bench press just kicks the shit out of a hammer strength fucking cable machine or like it's just a superior movement for the overall gains and benefits that you're going to get. And so when I used to train like the muscle one day a week, you come in, I would do some sort of a lightweight warm-up with something and then I'd go into the big barbell or dumbbell type of movement. And then the majority of the rest, and I would like get it, four or five hard sets of that. My chest would already feel a massive pump. And then the rest of the workout was all the bullshit exercises. We're doing weird balancing things and cable flies and all the machines. And I'd end up doing 20 sets, but five of them were like the fucking meat and potatoes of it. And then I wouldn't get another meat and potato type of exercise until I saw that again next week. And when I realized when I started to split the workouts into two and three workouts over the week, now I could do on Monday, you know, barbell incline press and then on Wednesday, I could do like a dumbbell flat press and then on another. And so I could start to get these good compound movements. I could start to do two, three, four. The real muscle builders. Yeah, the ones that are benefiting the most. And when I'm coming into the workout fresh, I'm not fatigued. So I'm able to lift a lot heavier weight than I was able to if I was, because if you go incline bench press, barbell, then flat, you know, bench press, then you go dumbbell. By the time you get to them dumbbells, you're not doing nowhere near what you're capable of doing because you're completely fatigued. That's where the whole, that's where I think a lot of, part of the reason why muscle and fitness and flex and all these other, you know, bodybuilding publications, which were, by the way, the fitness authorities, they were the fitness authorities for a long time. If you want to learn about fitness, fat loss, muscle building, those were the cutting edge. One of the reasons why they promoted body part splits was because they partnered with machine manufacturers and gyms and, you know, Nautilus was created by Arthur Jones. Arthur Jones was like the scientist of muscle building and he wanted to sell us Nautilus equipment. I mean, here's the reality. If I'm going to go to the gym and do 15 sets for legs, how many of those sets are going to be heavy barbell squats, right? Four, maybe five if you're like really fit. You ain't doing 15 sets of barbell squats and if you are, only the first, well, if you are the first three to five sets of the effective ones, the rest of them are kind of a waste. But imagine this, imagine if I go to the gym and instead of doing 15 sets for legs on Monday, I do five sets on Monday, five sets on Wednesday, five sets on Friday. The odds that I'm going to do a lot of squats each time is much higher. And so there's, but, and I'm not going to want to use machines. I'm not going to want to do a bunch of different crazy equipment. You're not going to be a sore. And the odds are the load is going to be a huge difference, which then naturally increases the volume, which to me, that is one of the biggest game changers for, you know. But think about it. How can you, if you're a machine manufacturer, how hard is it to sell all these fancy machines when everybody's doing barbell squats, barbell bench press, overhead presses, rows, pull-ups? Like when everybody's doing the big muscle builders, nobody's, those machines are going to collect dust in the corner. But if you tell everybody you need to do, you know, all your sets in one day, now those machines become very valuable. You know, there's a very methodical way about this to continually to see progress and not hit plateaus. And of course in all their programs, it's already naturally built into that. But those that are following me on Instagram right now, I'm just, Oh, I love that you're doing this too. Cause it's like, I can see exactly what's happening to your body. Not because you're posting pictures, although I work with you every day and I can see it. I can see with your workouts because you started out, where you started out and where you're already at, it was like a massive difference, but it was a methodical. Right. And so along those lines, that's exactly what, and I'm meaning to get to this. So, and I'm trying to be as active as possible to share with you guys and continue to provide really valuable free information. It just takes time for me to do these things. And I've been doing it for so long that I just kind of naturally do it. But one of the things that I'm going to show you right now is so I'm about to complete the 12th workout, which is basically a month's worth of training and the amount of volume. Now I'm going to go back and because I've logged all my sets, weights and reps, I can calculate the total volume per muscle group. And so what I'll do is I'll go back since I've tracked all this and just, I'm going to use hypothetical numbers right now so you get the point. There's going to be 10,000 pounds of volume on my legs. There's going to be 7,000 pounds of volume on my shoulders. There's going to be 5,000 pounds of volume on my arms. I'm going to go through every major muscle group and show the improvement. And show the amount of volume that I've put out in the last month. And now what I'm going to do is the next month is I'm going to make sure I hit that or a little bit over in every one of those muscle groups. And I know just by doing that. And I don't want to go way overboard, which I think a lot of people make that mistake. They go after it hard. Like no, I want to do as little as possible. And this is how you get very, very detailed about this and what I used to do when I competed and this is how I could prove that I know that I will see progress every single month because I'm increasing the volume. Your body is prioritizing adaptation and not repair and recovery. You said what I'm saying. And what I mean by that is it's always going to prioritize repair and recovery. But what I mean is it's not such a big signal. Like heal me that it can't focus on adaptation. It's just enough to send that adaptation signal and then because you're not creating ridiculous amounts of damage, it can focus on adaptation. And then you're hitting your body again right when it's time to hit it again. And here's another thing. When we look at these studies of, so they measure the signal that, there's a signal that you can measure in the body that kind of tells you that your body's building. And it's called protein synthesis or muscle protein synthesis. And we can test when it's elevated and we see right after a workout, that shit takes off and it tends to spike at about 12 to 24 hours and then it starts to drop and for beginners, moderates, you know, intermediates that usually drops at around 48 to 72 hours. So it's about two or three days where it says elevated. The more advanced you are, the faster it drops and the shorter it stays elevated. So if you're really advanced and you've been working out for a long time, that muscle building signal might only be super elevated for like 24 hours. In some studies, they show 12 hours. So now you've got things like trigger sessions or focus sessions. This is why we put those things in there and why they become so effective. And I love that we can point to studies that show, I remember like putting this together and then seeing more studies come out and just confirm it even more. And I'm like, well, that's why the stronger, more fit I become, the more the trigger sessions become of value. Whereas in the beginning, they weren't as valuable but now they make such a big difference. I also think that people have the same patterns that they have like with nutrition as they have with like the way they train. Like you have these excellent week or two that you put together and then you kind of take a step back for a week or so. And that's kind of what keeps you at this level plateau. And if you were actually tracking and breaking it down mathematical, I bet you'd be surprised that you're doing about the same amount of volume. But in your head, you feel like, fuck, I was getting after it. You know, I've been getting after it really hard. But then you let off the throttle or you miss or you can't quite reach the amount of volume that you reach because you had to travel or this or that. But you're still getting your workouts in and you feel strong. So in your head, you think, why am I not seeing the results? Well, it's like, well, what you don't realize is last month, you did a total amount of volume of this much, whatever that number is. And this next month coming forward, you pretty much did the same thing. It was just spread out differently. You know what I'm saying? The maticles are off. Yeah. I don't know. When I started to track that, and I remember this with my peers when I was competing at Bernal, there's a lot of pros inside that gym. In fact, in any other gym I've ever been to, there's more pros in there. And a lot of the guys all work out with each other and a lot of times they'd want to work out with me and I just didn't like working out with everybody because they still train this way. They still train beast mode and to failure and I would razz them about it. I said, listen, I'm not in the business of proving that I'm good at working out. I'm in the business of proving that I can change my physique. And to me, jumping in a workout with you where I'm going into my workout, I know what I need to do. I know what I need to do today to elicit change in my body. And I want to do just the right amount to do that. I don't want to get in a circle jerk with you three and start getting into a who can lift more and pushing each other till we fail. And one ear and not the other. You know why? Because they identify so strongly with being a martyr for fitness that when you say to them, now man, I'm not trying to just go overboard and go crazy. In their mind, they're like, well, I'm a fucking badass. That's why I did five in the morning. Yeah, that's why I do it. In reality. Cool, bro, you're good at working out. That's why you'll still be in the NPC as I go all the way up to the fucking pro level. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what I'd say. In reality. I must make him so angry. Yeah, sure. And in reality, here's the deal. Do you want better results? Do you want to see? I just, we just got tagged. I just got tagged on Instagram by a listener who done body parts splits for a long time. He was in that breakdown recovery trap, listened to our podcast and he's like, I finally took a leap of faith. And it's funny because it is a leap of faith because I remember being so attached to, oh God, what if I lose muscle? I'm afraid to change anything. Even though reality, now I know, now it's like, who cares? I'll change something for two weeks, it doesn't work, I go back, I'll be fine. But back then I was so afraid, like, oh my God, if I train my chest three days a week, it's gonna shrink because I'm not letting it recover or whatever. This guy does this post and he was afraid of the same thing. Dude, if I didn't get sore the next, I would like abandon it, you know? That was the old mentality. It's like, if I'm not getting sore, I feel like this is just... An ineffective, like a totally ineffective approach. I would abandon really solid programming because it was like, you know, I didn't see long-term in the success of it. Well, no, this guy, I'm gonna see if I can find his, maybe you guys can check him out on Instagram. But he did this and I can't find him. He did this, he started working out more frequently. He stopped trying to go to failure all the time and he's like, he goes, my chest was never responded. It was like the weakest body part. He's like, it's growing every week. I am blown away. He's like 30-something, he's been working out for a long time. I like seeing that the most. I like seeing beginners respond. That's always awesome. That's easy. But we all know that's easy, right? Me to help a beginner, and that's why I think that's probably the problem. Because a beginner comes, hires some trainer, or gets some information from somewhere of doing this program or do this workout and they just do it. And of course they see results. Of course they see change. You know what I'm saying? You're new. So that becomes the formula from then on out. Yes. And then you marry it. How often did you guys see this where somebody has trained a certain way or followed a regimen or did, or fell into CrossFit or fell into a modality of training? Well, that's why they all exist. And that's why there's a whole tribe around it. And why there's a cult around all of them. Because yeah, it gave them the, it works well, so well that it was the best shape they ever, and I know this too because I fell in the same fucking thing. I remember that, you know how many years I was training to six reps? You know, six reps was all I, like it was like heaven, because you read somewhere that's the battle. Yes, yes. The muscle building amount is sick. To the point where if we ever did a weight that you could do eight or 10, we almost thought that was a waste. Like I'm not Jay Fonda, you know what I'm saying? Like I'm not trying to look like a chick. I don't want toned arms. I want massive arms. Like, don't give me those green and pink weights. Right. So every set you are going as heavy as possible and I'm failing at four or five and having my buddy spot me to six. You know what's crazy about this? You want to know? Years I did that. What's crazy about this is we're all in our, you know, we're all in our late 30s. I'm getting close to 40 now, right? My body was in its peak naturally probably sometime in my early 20s, right? That's probably when you have the most potential. God, if I only knew. I know. If I could go back in time. All new levels. Oh, dude. If I could go back in time and be like, dude, you're doing everything fucked up. Here's what you need to do with your nutrition. Here's what you need to do with your training. I don't know what I would have done. It would have been great. You know, Katrina to this day, she always gives me a hard time. She's like, it's so unfair how fast you can change your body. You just know what to do. Yeah. I'm like, I've just figured it out. And she's like, and I feel like I'm working so much harder than you. I'm like, well, sometimes you do. You know, sometimes you work harder than you need to, you know, she's got, she's there now. Like she gets it. But, you know, I've learned now, you know, that there's just these little subtle adjustments. And every day I'm making little adjustments. I'm making little improvements every day, being a little bit better version of myself. It doesn't ever feel like it's taxing. It doesn't ever feel like it's really hard or difficult. It's easy to stick to because it's just a little bit more than what I was before. And I just, you could. There's such a parallel there to business too. I don't want to take us off topic, but it's just like, that's exactly what I've learned. Like efficiency, you know, over like the martyrdom of, of grinding and living, you know, living at the gym. I used to do that. Yeah. You just live there. Like, I mean, I mean it is, there's something to that though. Like initially when you get started, as a personal trainer, you're trying to like learn the skill of like just being there and like immersing yourself in it full on completely. But like, yeah, when you go to try and work on your body and you try to take everything on, you take everything on, you keep taking it on. And then it's just like you burn out and you burn out quickly. And it's the results that you initially got the first couple of weeks, that's, that's where it stops. Boom. You're done. Yeah. People attribute, when people think hard, they think like it sucks. You know what I'm saying? Like, I love it when I tell people what I do and they're like, what do you do for a living? I'm like, oh, you know, I have a podcast, this and that. And they're like, man, that's so you don't really don't have to work that hard, right? And it's like, well, I mean, I enjoy it. So if you think that hard means it sucks, yeah, my job is not hard at all because I love what I do. But no, it's all about effectiveness. It's all about being smart. I mean, you could, we could eliminate, you know, you could use a backhoe to dig a hole in your backyard. And that would be far easier than using a shovel. Does that mean I go with the shovel because it's harder and it's making me sweat more and I'm working more? No, not at all. It's far, far less effective. And if you train properly, if you understand that there's, that your body can prioritize recovery over adaptation, if you understand that and you understand that you may be stuck in the breakdown recovery trap, move yourself out of that, watch what happened. You'll be shocked. You'll be blown away. I'm saying this to somebody who, I mean, I had trained already for years before I figured this out. And I thought my body wouldn't go anywhere. And I mean, I did more with my body totally natural than I did when I was taking those, you know, designer steroids or over-the-counter, you know, pro hormones. And it was all because my training and diet were smart. Back when I was doing those other things, it was all over the place. It wasn't intelligent at all. Now, I know we had, we had no idea where today's podcast was going to go. And sometimes those are my favorite, especially when we do something like this, because, you know, it's been a while. We do so many interviews. We have so many quads now that we used to when we first started. We used to tackle a lot of these, like, real basic type of things that we haven't addressed in a really long time. And it's, do you remember the last time that we brought this up? Like, I don't even remember the last time that we talked about something like this. And when you talk about, like, the biggest paradigm-shattering moments of my fitness career, like, this is one of them for sure. Like, this completely shifted my ability to not only see better results in myself, but then also to be a better coach and trainer. Yeah, and it translates to your beginner or somebody just started, but also your experienced lifter. So, like, you know, we were in a space where we knew what we were doing. Well, like Sal said, I think it translates or is even better for them, because a beginner, you really can throw almost anything at a beginner, and their body's going to adapt and change and see results. But it's the guys and the girls that are grinding day in, day out, month in, month out, year in, year out of training that have been kind of about the same. Like, are you, you know, sure you've been in a little bit better shape or you've been in a little bit worse shape than where you currently are right now, but when was the last time that you had really dramatically changed your body? And it's the ultimate kind of get people out of the rut. Yeah. You know, once they apply this, if they haven't before, it's such a game changer. Do you guys remember applying these principles to your clients and how big of a difference it was? Well, the irony. I was way better about applying this to my clients than I was myself. Dude, I remember learning this early on as a trainer where it's like, oh, man, if I hammer my clients super hard in the gym and they can't walk, they can't do that all the time. When I first became a trainer, I thought that's what I was supposed to do. And I used to find, get pride in it, like clients the next day, I'd be like, so. I would get clients from being known as the hard trainer. I don't know if it's still this way. And I know we have a huge trainer base that listens. So I would love to hear feedback, you know, via DM or whatever on this. But that was a fucking epidemic when we were coming up. Yes. I mean. Trainers used to brag about it. Yes. And I'd managed trainers for many years, most times 20 to 30 on staff, all of them were like this. Like at least 95% of them trained clients this way. And it was such a hard habit to get them to break. Yeah. Because it was, it turned into this. It was competitive. Competitiveness. And then the clients perpetuated the problem because they would bounce from trainer to trainer. Like I would get clients that would come to me. I remember being really frustrated as a boss, getting these types of clients that would come in. And they come in, they see me in my office and they sit down, hey, Adam, you know, you know, I really like Melissa. She's great and everything like that. But you know, is there any way I could train with another trainer? And I'd be like, yeah, you know, what, what is it? Why is that? Like what do you want to train with somebody else? Well, you know, I just, I think she's, you know, because she's a girl, I think she's too easy on me. And I'm just not seeing, she's not getting me sore. Oh God. You know, could you give it? And it'd be great. I'd give it with somebody who would just break them off. Thank you. No, they would be. I could barely walk. Yes. And I'd be like, ah, you're killing me. You know, like, but I mean, that's, that's the issue. So I don't know if it's still. That's how I got, that's how I got Doug. That's how I got Doug as a client. We sat, we, he literally came in and he was experienced. He'd worked out for ever, long times, since he was a kid. And I told him, well, we're going to work out twice a week. And I'm going to train your whole body. And he looked at me like I was crazy. And it's a good thing. I'm a good salesman because I convinced him. And you know, and then I remember it like, I remember like it was yesterday, Doug, you would come in and we'd add 20 pounds to your deadlift or 30 pounds to your squat. And the look on his face was like, are you sure I did? 20 pounds last week. And I'd be like, yep, I wrote it down right here. Like you just added 20 pounds to your lift over like, over the course of four days. Doug, I want to ask, I want to ask you because you, because you were somebody who was chasing this a long time by yourself and you're, you're not, yes, just some little spring chicken, obviously. Definitely not a spring chicken. Right, right. You've, you've tried this. You're still springy though. What we're, and I know you've stroked Sal off. So we don't need to go about Sal more about you and what, what you winter hen, what you, what you, like when you started training with Sal, what were some of the things that blew you the way the most, like as far as your body starting to change and seeing results? Well, I'd been at a standstill for quite a long time before I started working with Sal. I'd worked out, you know, since I was like 16 years old. I'd done all types of workouts and I'd put on some muscle early on in my experience, but then it just kind of stopped for like 20 years. And so when I started working out with Sal, I'd kind of given up on the whole concept of building muscle. I thought, well, maybe I'm just a hard gainer. I'm never going to get the body I wanted to, to build, you know, the Rocky three body. That was the one I was shooting for. And so anyway, I, I kind of lost interest in, in working out and building muscle partly because of that. So I went back and started working with, with Sal thought I'd just give it another shot and started to see the, the results of my body. And I started to exceed where I was before I started working out with him. What pieces of that did you, do you think over the most of true? I know there was a lot of things, cause of course the programming was dialed and the things you're doing, but do you like remember like, I never had someone tell me to stop a failure or I never had someone. Yeah, absolutely. There were all types of things that he taught me that were counter. Yeah, counter to what I'd learned. Right. So yeah, stopping before failure was one of them. You know, again, training more frequently. He had me working out twice a week, which really, to me, I really thought that was not going to be enough. But I was working out the full body twice each week. And I did that for probably almost two years. And before that, were you running like a, a split and working three, four, five times a week? Yeah. How many out how often were you lifting before? Well, yeah. When I was really into it, I was working, you know, five, six days a week. And I was following like muscle and fitness. In fact, I subscribed to muscle and fitness when I was like 16 or 17 years old. And I'd read these workouts and I'd say, I'll try this one cause the last one didn't work. And they were all the same, of course. They were all very intense. They were splits. And I just didn't see any results on any of those. Wow. And then I realized now in hindsight, looking back that it was because I was number one, probably overdoing it each time. Number two, I wasn't working the body parts as frequently as I should have. Yeah. And then also I was taking everything to failure. Yeah. Every, I mean, I had a spotter. I'd work out with friends. And we'd take every exercise, like for example, bench press. We'd be doing those last couple reps and I wouldn't be lifting half of it. I had my spotter helping me. Forced reps. Forced reps. Every set. Yeah. A forced rep. Thinking that's what's going to cause my body to grow. Right. And it was totally bunk. Because you have to damage the body. You got to create more damage, right? And that was all. And he did, I kept him on two days a week for about a year and a half or two years. And the reason why I kept him on, he asked me, should I work out more frequently? And I'm like, well, no, you're progressing still. Like he was progressing on a very, and the funny thing is Doug was convinced that he was a hard gainer. The reality is, now I've trained lots of people, the reality is Doug is not only is he not a hard gainer, Doug is on the upper end. I mean, he was able to pull over 400 pounds at a body weight of 150. That's crazy. At the age of almost 50. So arguably the strongest one here. Pound for pound. Pound for pound. That's why we call him the chimp. But no, no, all joking aside, you know, it's funny. And then he took pictures later on and was all shredded. And it's like, you thought you were a hard gainer. Not only are you not a hard gainer, but you're kind of a badass. But yeah, his body was progressing. So it was one of those things like, well, if you're progressing, let's keep it at this. And then we'll only add more when it's needed. You know another thing that I would, I would never do that I do now all the time, like speaking to frequency and the importance of it and how important it is is I would never work out in the past unless I was going to go crush it. Yeah. Like, so I would not. It was a waste. Yeah, exactly. I used to think that way that like, if I was just not feeling up to it, just not in the mood, maybe I'm tired, maybe I'm groggy, maybe I'm just like not in the mood to just get. And I, because I always thought I had to kill it, you know, or go to failure and do that. That if I didn't have the motivation to go to the gym to get after it like that, then I wouldn't go at all. Where I'm completely the opposite now. Many times, not in the mood, don't feel the greatest worth that. Maybe I only do five sets of something. That's it. Sometimes I'll do that. Like I'll totally do it. And I'm comfortable and okay with that. And I just, I picked something that I think is really important for me, like, oh, that's, you know, I'm going to get the most bang for my buck just going and doing five sets of squats. Like five sets of squats is a decent workout. It's a hell of a lot better than absolutely nothing that day. And I send that, I send that signal again. And it, you know, I never did that before and that was a big game changer for me too. It was just learning that I don't have to always get so motivated to go to the gym and to go in there and get after all the time. In fact, You don't have to win your workout. Right. And in fact, and I still see this. Right. I see a fucking. I see guys talks. I'd see guys talk about this stuff all the time about, you know, oh, you know, sometimes you just don't want to lift and it's the guys that get in there and just do it anyways and this and that. And I'm not saying there's not a place for that. But I am saying that, you know what, sometimes that's your body telling you like you're fucking tired, you know, you're probably, you're overdoing it. You're burning the candle with both ends. And maybe you don't need to go in there and hammer it and you don't feel like it. So don't not go in at all. Go in and maybe take an easy workout. Right. Go real light on everything. Like don't try and go to failure. Don't chase a crazy pump. Just get some, just get some sets and reps in and leave. And the other thing too is it's cool is that when I started implementing trigger sessions, I noticed that they were so effective at producing energy where, you know, I'd be like, Oh, I should probably do trigger session. Kind of grogging a little tired. And then I'd go do my five to eight minute trigger session. Afterwards it'd be like, I feel energized, man. Recharged. Yeah. In fact, I was on years ago. This has got to be now, how long we had the podcast now three years. This is about two and a half years ago. I was on smart drug smarts, which is a great podcast. And I was talking about trigger sessions as a way to boost your cognitive function and creativity because I noticed that when I did a trigger session, like I could think sharper. I was more awake. It's producing more of that dopamine, producing more of those, you know, feel good chemicals. I don't feel so fatigued. So you actually, you actually, when you are feeling tired, you go to the gym, you go easy. You'll find that you'll, you'll end up creating more energy. Right, right. Good stuff. So that blog that you did write though, is that that's, I know I read it already when you first sent it over to me, but is that live now? Is it or do you actually have it out? Should be live on our website. That's mind pump media.com. And there's a blog. Well, we'll put in the show notes too. Section, put in the show notes. But we have a lot of blogs. We've got some good writers that put some pretty good content. So then maybe what we can do is do a link to this blog. And then maybe Jackie can also do a link to that page that has like all the, I know there's, it's our reference page, right? Mm-hmm. Is that right? That's the blog page. Oh, it's called a blog page. There's a tab on the website for blogs. No, no. And if you have any suggestions for articles that you would like to see us write, let us know. So you can either DM us or message us through our website. And we'll make sure to do those for you. Well, maybe what we try and do more often too is that because I mean, again, we're seeing a large response from the blogs that you write. You know, maybe when we see the ones that kind of outperform and do really, really well as far as shares and eyes on them, maybe we'll do a episode about it also and start doing that more often because, you know, we don't get a chance to do this very often where we just kind of rift and go and talk about some of these paradigm shattering moments for us that we had in our career. You know, we're interviewing so much or answering questions from our quaw. You know, sometimes it's good to revisit some of these things that I think, because personally, like when I talk about the things that have made the biggest impact on my clients and the people that I've taught or trained, like this is the nuts and bolts, you know what I'm saying? Exactly. Like teaching in these little pieces. It all revolves around it. And it doesn't cost you guys any money. You like take the information for what it is, use it, down, I mean, read the blog. I mean, read the blog. And that really, that's the only thing that I ask people is like, man, to help Mind Pump out, the best thing you possibly do is you read that blog. If you find it informative and it helped you out, share it, man. That's the biggest thing that I can ask our audience to do is, and that to us gives us an indicator that that was, if you guys are sharing it a lot, then we know that, okay, this is a good topic for us to maybe address and talk more towards. Perfect. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes maps anabolic, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mind Pump. Thank you.