 And we are live. Hi. Hi. Hello. Hi. Good morning or afternoon already to some people. Hi. I am Natalia Zamošek. I am a CEO of OralTech. And I am Konstantin, Konstantin Livanov. I'm the CTO. And you are making a special ink that could be the future of all electronics. Is that what you're saying? Yes. This is the dream. Yes. So what is special about your technology? Well, first to get into that, we have to give a very brief introduction of what we consider to be the future of electronics in general. That is printed electronics. So I don't know if your viewers are into this field or not, but generally there is, in modern electronic markets, there is a shift towards printing. And it's very easy to understand why is that. If you think about how they produce smartphones now, you see this huge hanger filled with people who assemble the smartphones one by one. And that is not the very scalable way to produce electronics. Right? Yeah. So people want to shift towards something more scalable, also more environmentally sound and environmentally safe, also something more cost efficient. And that is right now the concept is printing. So instead of assembling, we are using printing to put all the components into one single device. Yes. And you can see it in many different directions today in the production of electronics. You will see a lot of attempt to use inject or 3D printing to replace different part of production in electronics. What are we looking at here in the video? Yeah. So we're getting to it. So this is in the video right now is our process. And this is happening in real time in a plasma device. So we will get to that. So if we do want to do printing, one of the things we have to do for all electronic devices is to print metals. Because anywhere any electronic device you take would have metallic components. And these are needed mostly for electrical conductivity because nothing conducts really like a metal. And people are working on some replacements, some organic electronics or a graphene. But still in many, many electronic devices you will always need metallic parts. And printing those is a special challenge. Because obviously you cannot, to melt metal you need to go to hundreds and maybe thousands of degrees. And that is not feasible in a printing process. So your other components would just melt and burn from these temperatures. So what you want to do is find some smart way to do it. And find some tricks basically to do it. One of the tricks is called the conductive inks. And you might have heard a lot about it. Basically it's a chemical walk around. So instead of just melting metal until it's liquid we are putting it into small particles, into small nanoparticles, small balls. And then we print these particles and then we heat them up to much lower temperature. And that is great technology. It exists already for 30 years. But it's not me. But it is not us, yes. As I said, it exists for 30 years already and we need something new. Because it still is not good enough for large scale fast printed electronics. So this is exactly where we come in. So we develop a different approach and a different way to do it. We manufacture and we invented these particle free conductive inks. You can see now on the camera. Or if you go to the second slide here in the open presentation you can see a picture of those. Yes, exactly. So these are very liquid. And these are, you know, like, what's the best way to put it? The metals are inside of these inks in the form of salts. So, you know, sodium is a metal. But you can put it in a table salt and put it in your soup. And you will not feel it as a metallic. You will not feel it as salty. So these are silver and gold metals that are in the form of different salts that we made into these printable inks. And after you print them you have to turn them back into metal. And this is exactly where the video with the plasma, with the pink light came in. This is the process that we developed and that we are trying to promote. And this process is very, very fast. Very, exactly. Very fast. It happens in a few seconds just in front of your eyes. And this drop in the middle of the screen turned from liquid to metal in just a few seconds. Yeah, if you see it again, it's liquid. It's liquid. It's liquid. Now it's metal. It went from transparent to metallic in just a few seconds. And this is exactly the process and the product that we promote and that we invented. So nobody else is doing what you're doing? Nobody else is doing exactly this product, yes. This plasma, we call it plasma-based metallization. Metallization is turning into metal and this is the machine that we're using for that plasma device. And this is our technology. Yes. So of course, in scientific research, people know the process, how plasma affects metal. Of course, for tens of years. Maybe for hundreds of years. Maybe for hundreds of years. But we turned it from some scientific knowledge to existing technology. How to make from this useful application. And this is what exactly we are doing. We use some physical, known physical and chemical processes and make from them working an applicable technology that can be used for mass production. Yeah. Nice. So if I get back to your presentation here, do you want to show on your live camera? Yeah. We have a presentation and we also have the similar substrates. We can show them live to you now. So yes. And these inks can be applied to a variety of substrates and then can be turned into very different products. So we will start with just a very basic one. That is what you see now on the camera. And this is just a capton, which is a very common electronic material, electronic substrates. For making flexible PCBs. For example, this is a capton with our metal layer printed on it. It's perfectly flexible, as you can see on the camera. If you can enlarge actually the camera window. Oh, the camera window. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. So generally all conductive inks that you can find on the market can do this thing. So they can print metal traces on capton. On specialized materials like capton, for example. Yes. The captons that used now to prepare so-called flexible or hybrid PCBs. Yeah. We have a question. Metalizing in vacuum. Good question. Yes. You can immediately see that the personal basket understands the process quite well. We metalize it in low pressure. It is not high vacuum. It is about 0.5 millibars. So you do need some kind of vacuum pump to operate the machine, but it is not extra high vacuums that they use in electronics industries right now. Hi, everyone. Hi. Hi. That's the message. So how about on your live cam here? What more can you show? Yes. This is what pretty much everyone does. And we have to show that we are also able to do it. But we have here a few examples that very few other people can do. So this is the same circuit printed on paper, for example. And paper is hard to print on, especially conductive inks. For several reasons, one of them is the temperature. And paper gets destroyed by high temperature. And this, as you can see, is a perfectly flexible paper circuit. So in the future, some people want to switch to paper-based PCBs and paper-based chips. This is exactly the technology for that. Currently, industry has a number of interesting applications. And it is a very basic information card that can be printed on paper. Because it's cheaper, it's easier, and can be recyclable. Paper is a wonderful material. And if we could switch all electronics to paper, we would be living in a much greener world. But we cannot, but we strive to. So you're saying that we could eventually have all these phones and stuff just be a bunch of paper? Imagine you go to a restaurant and you have these menus. And instead of just having printed out menus, you can click on them. You can see how every dish is prepared, what kind of allergen it has. Just by clicking on this paper menu. So that would be futuristic. We need a flexible display, flexible battery, flexible electronics. Which part of these are you supplying? So we are mostly supplying the connections. And each of these parts somehow exist and start to emerge. We have seen a very nice flexible display recently with flexible smartphones, foldable smartphones. There are flexible and printed batteries. And flexible OLEDs and transistors and so on. And we supply the electrical connections. So if you want to connect your display to your battery to your PCB, you need to have circuits. And this is exactly our part. Yes, and also inside the device itself, for example, a transistor or diode, you have to have inside this part also some electrical connection. And if we are looking forward to see more flexible diodes or flexible transistors, so all part of this material should be flexible. And our metal printing allows us to make some flexible metal connection for all of those devices. How small and features is possible to get onto a piece of paper, for example? It is limited by the paper and by the printer. So these two things impact limitations. Our inks can be tens of microns, very, very thin. But not every paper would accept it, and not every printer would be printed. Sheet resistance, depending on the application we're talking about, the paper ones are below 1 ohm per square. So how good is that? I would say it's around state-of-the-art for paper-based electronics. This is where we sort of benchmark with trash. So you like a startup, right? How far is this from changing the world? Our inks are a commercial product. We can order them on the website. Yeah, you can order and buy, and we can scale up our production very easily to 10 liters per week. We are a startup, but we're working with a few industry partners to make these devices. We do not make devices ourselves, we just make the inks. In order to get the devices, we have to partner with larger companies, with corporations, that do produce them. I have to emphasize that a product of our specific company is ink itself. We do not prepare devices and we do not print electrodes. We provide material for printing, and this material is already commercially available. So we are beyond the prototype style, we are on the product stage. So product stage, what does that mean? What kind of products could be out there at this point in 2021? Yeah, so as we show, we have a... This is an example of a silver electrode printed on textile. Okay, using this exactly... This is a silver-based inject ink. Yeah. Okay, and this is one product. Second product, as example, this is a gold electrode printed on textile. And this is almost not present currently on market at all. Gold inject printable and aerosol printable inks. The gold is expensive, right? Yes. And this is a gold ink that you can print. Also, we make inks that nobody else makes them as a printable ink at all on market. We can have a platinum ink, and we prepare in development now. Platinum ink is also available product, and we have a couple of new metals that are in these stages. How much gold is there in this little thing that you're showing? Can you define in terms of weight? This is classifying information. But in the end, on the ready printed electrode, you get 100% gold. So there are no additions in the printed product. You get just a pure layer of gold. Here, as example, it's just pure layer of something like 2 to 300 nanometer gold. Yeah. Sickness. Do you know the right here, the Robert Murray Smith? Printing graphene supercapacitors. As a question just arrived. Oh, I think it's just a LinkedIn article, right? Yeah. Yes. We work with metals. We cannot print graphene with our technology. This technology is for metals only. In the future, maybe metal oxides, but this is still in development. People talk about gold being very conductive, or is that the best? Gold is great. Gold is wonderful. It's not the reason it's so expensive, by the way. It's expensive because it's rare. But gold is a wonderful, wonderful metal. It's very conductive. It's very stable. You print gold. Nothing happens to it. It stays gold forever. Which is why they call it with gold, the huge domes in Berliner dome or in other cathedrals, right? They call it with gold because this is super, super stable, beautiful metal. The problem is it's also super expensive. But yeah, you pay for the quality here. Yeah. And you have some application where you cannot avoid using gold. As example, if you are talking, you know, we are now looking again to the future and we think about this personal medicine. Personal medicine, it means that you will have a lot of different sensors attached to human body to take some different parameters and that can be delivered to smartphone and so on. Even before we get there, we still now have different sensors that we want attached to human body. For medical reasons, for sport and for other things. The problem is that our body can develop allergy to different type of metals and the only metals that absolutely compatible with our body is gold. So nobody in the world is allergic to gold? Nobody allergic to gold. And you cannot develop this allergy with time because gold is super inert metal. Inert metal, it means that it doesn't have reaction after you convert it. It doesn't care. It doesn't care. So after you convert it to the pure gold, it doesn't have any reaction with your surrounding, not with your biological materials, not with the air and so on. This is why gold is used first of all in medical devices, second in protection. If you have, as example, very important wires or connections and you want to protect them from environment for a long lasting period of time, you have to cord them with gold. So gold is the human's best friend? Yes. But can you say anything about like if there is a few grams? Sometimes when you are what you call covering the top part of a jewelry with gold is very affordable, but it's still gold, right? But it's just a diamond. So it's a very thin layer that's still affordable. So when I look at your demo right here, is it possible to consider that it's not too expensive? It's not too much gold that's involved? Yes. This is exactly one of the big benefits of foreign technology is that we can print metals including gold in a very, very thin layers. So typically when you deposit gold like this, you're using some kind of a plating process. And what you get is a few microns of metal. Sometimes you absolutely have to have that and then that's okay. But sometimes you don't need the whole bulk of metal. We can print 200, 300 nanometers. So one order of magnitude less. And it's still very conductive. So an order of magnitude less than gold plated? Yes. And this is how we can help our customers to get, to spend less gold. Yeah. This could be useful for also, let's say, if you're making a smart wearable closing and you want it to be beautiful and pretty much like gold, you can do that and make it beautiful and also functional without it to be being too much gold. Yes. And this is one of the huge benefits of our materials because our materials are pure liquids. And we use them as an example in Inject. So you have super precise control how much material you're going to print. Okay. And we can go exactly on the thickness that is enough because we are talking about super expensive materials. Even when we talk about silver, it's still expensive and gold and platinum are super expensive. So here is a very important point that we can print. So our customers can print exactly the amount that they need to get the specific requirement. So special conductivity, special coverage and other parameters that they need and not to go above, not to spend more. What do you do here with the silver? Is silver also a good one? Yeah. Yeah. We have here some examples of larger scale silver. So we can generally, you can use our technology. So we do not dictate to our customers what to do. They can do what they want. We give them the material. So as I showed, our material can be easily patterned to get the specific shape of electrode or you can print large electrode. This means that you can print the huge layer on the surface that all of this is silver and all of this is conduct. And this can also be just in a nanometer scale. This not currently here. It's something about 100 to 200 nanometer thickness. Yeah. So that's very thin, right? Yeah. And we can go below if we want or some application where we do want to go below the thickness and we can show the examples. Yeah. If we go way below, we actually can make silver layers transparent. Yeah. And this is exactly another application that we wanted to show today. Yeah. So we are talking. This is going to be challenging to show on camera, by the way. Yeah. Because when we are talking about the transparency, you know, hopefully you can get the focus, right? Yeah. We'll try. But we also have a nice picture in the presentation. Okay. So it's not so bad. Not so bad. Yeah. Okay. So you can clearly see the border. It's a gray. Yeah. It's a gray color of thing. Where's the gray? You see. So the border between white and gray. Ah, behind there. Yeah. You see? This is a border. It's very difficult to focus on it because it's transparent. Yeah. But if you actually show it in front of camera, you can see how transparent it actually is. Yeah. If we focus past it, then you can, yeah. You can see this is actually very transparent and there is no color distortion. So how does that compare with the silver nanowire people talk about? Is it something that's related to that? Yeah. So it's a competition product to silver nanowires and it has the same conductivity and it has very similar transparency parameters, but it is also much more flexible and it is also much smoother layer, which is important for making devices. Some applications. So you don't make the nanowires? No. What do you do? You just spread it around? We just print it? Yes. The same inject? Yeah. We printed the sample. The same ink, transparent ink, you print it with an inkjet and you can pattern it the way you want and you get these very, very thin layers. Yes. And this is one of the very important benefits of our approach to these transparent electrodes because when you make a nanowires, it means that you have a wires that connected to each other in such way. I have to. Yes. You have something like this. You have a lot of wires that contact with each other and at the crosspoint, this is the connection where you have electrical contact. But if you put it and try to make it flexible like this, so it means that many of your contact points going to be there, you know, you will. You will have mechanical disturbances here. Yes. And uneven thickness. So we can see that these parts is naturally much thicker than the. Yes. And so imagine that you make it flexible. So where you have electrical contact points can be just disconnected from your surface. So are you saying that the silver nanowire is maybe not as stable when it gets flexible as the premise might be? Not just us. This is a known problem. It has to do with the shape of the wires. But you don't have any shapes going on there. It's just, I mean, the shape is what people want to print. But when you talk about 200 nanometer, for example, how small does a print head potentially, what could the resolution be there? So we have successfully printed it with a resolution of 35 microns, the width of the line. And we believe there is a, it depends on the printer. It depends on the printer. We are not the limiting factor for printing in this case. Okay. So if your printer can do something, we can go. Our inks can go because we do not have, our inks are pure liquid. It's mean that you don't have any particle, anything inside that can limit your thickness or widths. Okay. So it means that as you print, you print as a, what the possibilities you have with your printing machine. This is what you can do with our inks. And the idea is, so this is exactly, the transparent layers that we print has a thickness below 100 nanometers. It's very thin layer of pure silver. It's just like a very, very thin layer of silver that is so thin that it's transparent. What's the difference between your transparent and you are not transparent? Sickness. Yeah. So it's 100 nanometers that 200 or something like that. Sounds like this. Of course, transparent ones are about 30 nanometers. And then if you build them up, you can get to hundreds and then you lose transparency. Yeah. Of course, to make it better for printing and for, you know, adjusting to special surfaces. Of course, we have different chemical compositions of different inks. So we have a transparent inks with specific chemical composition. And we have a product that called Ortec Jet that is a, especially inks that develop for inject. Or we have Ortec Iero inks. It means that it's specially developed for Ierozole printing. It means that on the level of chemistry of ink, it's a little bit different, but all of them contain silver. And then same manner are converted to conductive electrodes. So I guess when you, when you talk 30 nanometer or 300 nanometer is the difference in connectivity? Of course, yes. Of course. Usually conductivity is calculated relative to the, to the sickness. But yeah, of course, general conductivity is a thinner of the layer is the worst it will be to be conducting. That is true for all conductive inks and all metals in general. But when you say that it can be as little as 30 or 200 nanometer, that's up to the printing, the printer to be able to make it that thin, right? Not really. So we are, yeah, it is a bit confusing. So the thickness of the layer that you can print is usually determined by several printing parameters like resolution or ink itself. Yeah. And ink itself. So this is the typical thickness you get when you print with our inks. After you print it, the ink goes into the plasma chamber and then it gets to the final thickness of the metal. So when you print it, it has liquid in it and it's a little bit thicker. In the end, it would be the thickness of 30 nanometers or 300 or whatever, whatever your application is. And when we look at these silver coated ABS or gold coated ABS, what's the idea here? Okay. This is very interesting idea. This is where we want to go and to replace application of play electroplating that exists currently on the market. We are talking about new components that in the recent years, we have a lot of 3D printed details that are started to be used more and more in medical devices in automotive, aerospace, and so on. Because naturally we want to replace metal details by plastic, lightweight, but we have to core this plastic with metal. Currently the most common way to do it is electroplating because usually as you see here, it's complicated shape and you have totally to coat it with metal. But the problem is compatibility of classical electroplating that is very harsh chemical process with many different plastics that's currently printed by 3D printing. Not just 3D printing. Everything. Yeah. We want generally to use lighter and more recyclable plastics. And this is where electroplating becomes a limiting factor. Yeah. So, and we come here with a similar idea like in electro printing. We can using Iresol inks to core different and complicated 3D shaped structures in the same process plasma development make them metallized. And we can reduce the amount of metal sickness that currently used in electroplating and help to our customers first to adapt new materials as a substrates, new plastics, and second to make, you know, economy on used metal. Also, if we compare our processes with electroplating, it's much, much more environmental safely. Because in electroplating, you have a huge amount of very harsh and very, you know, liquids, chemical toxic materials that you have first to use after the recycle. So when I look at your video right here. Yeah. That was a very nicely done video by InnovationPrize in Berlin. And also this video right here. So can you try to explain a little bit more in terms of what applications could you see happening with this and in how soon? Like paper electronics? Yeah. So how soon it's a question not for us. It's for producers of electronic devices. We can ask, I don't know, producers of PCBs how soon are they going to switch to the paper based devices. We just provide them the opportunity and we provide them the technology that they eventually would require to do that. The short video that we show usually a single aspect of our technology, like flexibility or something similar or stability in time. Yeah, like for example, this one, it's a printed, thin printed metallic layer. And you can see that it doesn't change the conductivity if you flex it. So the conductivity stays exactly the same no matter how much you twist it and flex it and bend it. So this is an important application for... Flexing is one of the big trendy words, right? People want to flex everything. And that's more and more flexible phones now kind of happening. Could you be part of that deal? Yes, of course. We can go in flexible phones or other flexible monitors. We generally solve two problems. One is a general problem of flexibility of metal contacts and exactly our inks. And as you saw with this metal piece of plastic covered with our electrode, that we generally can provide inks that can be used to print metal electrode. And this electrode can withstand a lot of bending cycles. And this is the first problem. The second problem is a transparent electrode. So when you have a touchscreen on your phone or any other monitor, there is a transparent electrode. Exactly. And our transparent inks are an bendable alternative to currently existing transparent electrodes. So are they using it? Are people coming and saying they want to do it? Yes, and you can now find a very interesting article. It's a scientific article when we did with a collaboration with the Humboldt University, where they print a flexible OLED with our transparent electrode. All right. And of course, we have a lot of commercial projects that we cannot just disclose right now because I cannot say, okay, we are doing this and this because all of those projects are in the middle, but we are developing different part, partnering with the producer of the devices. We provide our materials that they testing in different devices as a transparent electrode, as non-transparent electrode, as a gold and as a platinum. Platinum is good too. Platinum is great. Again, like with gold, it's a very expensive metal. But in some cases, you just cannot use anything else. So platinum is used in, the majority of platinum is used in two things. First thing is batteries and fuel cells. So every car that is now out there on the street, out there, has a catalytic converter, which is an essential part in reducing the amount of toxic gases that car exists. So each catalytic converter has platinum and it is put there too because it's a great catalyst. So if you want to turn a very toxic gas into a slightly less toxic gas, this is where the platinum comes in. In fuel cells, again, platinum acts as a catalyst for turning hydrogen and oxygen into water and energy, which is exactly what we want. And it can demonstrate very easily how you test the possibility of platinum to convert hydrogen and oxygen to gases. Yeah, so in the school in the chemistry, you have a little demonstration. So we prepare something like this for your viewers today. Hopefully it will work and hopefully our camera will also be able to catch it. Okay, yes. So what we have here, this is a hydrogen peroxide solution. Hydrogen peroxide is a liquid that contains two atoms of hydrogen and two atoms of oxygen. And it's a very useful liquid to show if you have any type of catalytic reaction. Specifically with platinum, yeah, platinum catalyzes very quickly. So if we put our, and we have our, we call it Hans, our platinum coated demonstrator by the legs is easier. Yeah, okay. If we put it inside of this, you can see it here. Hopefully you can get it in focus, I hope. Yeah, we're trying. We can switch it slightly up the camera. I can try to do it. Yeah, there we go. And I can hold the camera. No, no, no. No, no, no. Okay. So, yeah, show the, no, wait, show first the demonstrator. So this is a ABS stick figure or like a human figure coated with platinum using our solution. And the magic should be like this. If you put it in peroxide liquid, it should, you should start bubbling. It should start bubbling. So you could, you should see bubbles going in the liquid. And let's try to do it. And let's try to capture it on camera as well. And that's something happened. Yeah. So, yeah, bring it closer. Maybe we'll see it better. Yeah. So you can even see there is quite a lot of bubbling, but maybe we'll camera. Let's try to add some light with your extra light you have. Can you go to this camera? Oh, yeah. Maybe here. Yeah. So what's happening to the little guy? So bubbling. It's producing oxygen from peroxide. So hopefully you can see everyone can see the bubbles. I'm playing with lights here. So maybe at some point you'll see, but in generally the, it is called covered with little bubbles all over its body where the platinum is. Yeah. It's vigorously bubbling. Yeah. And this is the fastest way to test for platinum. And it's generally what people want to do in the cell hydrogen cells for cars and everything to generate hydrogen and oxygen. No, the other way around. Yeah. But different direction. No. Yeah. Yeah. This is a reverse. As chemists, we see everything to do. So, yeah, partial success, but the direction worked. The demonstration. I think, I think you can see the little bubbles. Yeah. If you shake it. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of the camera is not capturing. So the bubbling proofs that you are doing things in a way that is very efficient or yes, it means that we create platinum layers that is catalytically active. Yeah. Exactly. And we did it with a very simple process. We took this little guy, sprayed it with a ring, put it into a plasma. And in five minutes, we had a catalytically active, complicated 3D surface. And you previously show example of different plastic things coated with metal. So imagine that you have to create like tens, thousands, or tens, or hundreds, thousands of such parts for your, you know, production. So using our inks and plasma machines, it's become so easy to do it. And you use exactly amount of metal that you need in both stages. You don't have any chemical waste when you produced the coating. And this is super important because as example in electroplating, this is very expensive stage. You generate so high amount of the chemical waste that it's part of your expenses. We do not generate any chemical waste in this process. You just load the amount of our ink that you need to coat your parts. And after that, you just get the plastic parts in any complexion, in shape of any complexion. You get them totally coated with a uniform layer of metal. And this metal can be used for any, you know, purpose. Yes. So usually either for some sort of catalysis like you saw in our demonstration for turning one thing into another thing and releasing some energy in the process like in a fuel cell, or just for example, for medical purposes, you need some platinum. It's also catalytically used usually, but in the context of a medical procedure. And it's equally right for silver and gold, because in medical devices, you have more and more different, sometimes even disposable parts that should be coated with expensive metals. And if it's plastic with a very thin layer, it can be recycled after them. And so you're talking about silver, gold, platinum, those are the expensive guys, the expensive ones. How about cheaper metals? Do you work with like copper or something? To be honest, we see the main benefits of our technology in reducing the amount of metals that you can use. So naturally we are going to a higher end of metal spectrum. Not every metal would work in this process. Copper does work, but we do not have a ready market ready product for it yet. No, it probably will not work. And yeah, so we're focusing now to capture the market niches for high end products, because we believe that our benefits are higher here. And you don't work with graphene, for example, right? There's a couple comments about this, but some people are doing that, right? Yeah. Graphene is a great technology. Ours is metal based. All right. It's a different way of doing things, right? Going that direction. Absolutely. Yeah, so there is a huge, very new, very promising industry. And it can contain different approaches and different materials. And as much materials we have there is better for everybody. So as OralTech, we did a video, was it the year and a half ago at the IDTech show, right? Or was it more? I think it's almost two years now. Two years, yeah. I think it was in May. It was in the Berlin event, so it should be May. April 2019, maybe. April May 2019, exactly, yeah. Yeah. So now, as OralTech becoming more and more famous, what would you say in the industry? What's happening in terms of, do you get a lot of stuff happening over this past strange year? What's been happening? Definitely, despite COVID and despite everything is moving way, way slower than it used to. We are growing as a company. We are now, we have six people working with us now. And we also are growing our customer base and our customer network. It has expanded in a very satisfying way in the last year and a half. And I would define it even more. So when we talked two years ago, we had very promising results with the potential customers, but still it was a prototype. Okay. Yeah. It was a prototype. We printed things. We had a lot of nice feedbacks from potential customers on that stage. We had different results, but still we were a startup with a prototype of product. Currently, we can definitely say that we are startup, but with existing on-market number of products and people can go to our site and see that there are things that are available now to buy for anybody who want to do it. And they're not one product. There is a family of different products. I really like our little poster there. Yes. Yes. ID Tech X is a great event for you, right? Yeah. Yeah. When it was real life, it was amazing. Unfortunately, the online events are lacking a little bit. Yeah. Hopefully, the real events are coming back soon. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We hope so as well. Sure. Because networking with the experts in real life is a nice kind of thing to be able to do. Absolutely. It's coming. It's coming back. It's coming back. To see it again. So this was actually in Berlin. Yes. And that's where you based? Yes. We started in Israel. We started in five years ago now in Israel. And in 2018, we moved to Berlin to be closer to our customers and to our network. Right. So potentially, you could have some partners in some, anywhere it doesn't have to be in Europe, like working with the US, with Asia. We do. We do work quite a lot with Asia. And we are planning to go more directly into the US market as well. Yeah. So one of the great things about being here in Berlin, it is an international community, and it's also an international center. So you can have access here to all the corners of the world. And what is with your proud poster? Very nice to see. Well, we designed it ourselves. And it's a nice little poster. It was also much, much smaller than the rest of the posters in the row. If you see it on the zoom out. So yeah, it was sort of standing out. It kind of like explains what you do, right? The 3D antennas. Sure. Give some possible applications of our technology. All right. So are you a part of the startup accelerator kind of area? I remember it was a group there. It's called INAM. We are very happy. Parts of INAM. It's less of an accelerator. It's like a network of technical startups, of advanced material startups. We cannot recommend it enough. The guys have been, first of all, the guys have been instrumental in bringing us to Berlin and showing us all the possibilities that Berlin and Germany in general can offer. And also, yeah, it's just a great group of people with a lot of support. And believe me, startup companies like us need a lot of support. Not everyone can do everything by themselves. And yeah, we are very happy to be part of INAM and to be here in Berlin. It's a rare network specifically made for startups in the field of advanced materials. It's not only related to printed electronics or to metals. All type of startups that work with this translation of knowledge that developed an academy in scientific knowledge in cutting-edge materials research. And there are people who want to translate this knowledge to the technology. This is advanced material startups. And INAM is a network for such startups all over the world. It's like the big hope for every region to have startups that will be the next Google, right? So they're all trying to help the startups, right? The region and boosting and networking people and then trying to see if we can become a billion-dollar company. Is that what's going to happen? Totally non-profit organizations that just help to make it an organization of people who are enthusiastic in this field. And they want to make the connection because I have to admit that advanced materials is much more complicated process than IT. Because in advanced materials, your investment in the development is going to take you... And time to market. It's going to take you three to seven years. It's not like, you know, immediate reward. You have to invest a lot of efforts to get your idea to something that real works and can be applicable as a technology in industry. In real life, in a real life product, not in an app. Yeah, and there are limitations not only from... Yes, the limitations on this way are coming not only from, you know, management or investment on so on, but sometimes from physical limitation of physics and chemistry. Yes, and you have to overcome that. And usually it takes not, you know, it's not... You can do startups in this direction in a year. So you need a... And it's very, very good to have a supportive environment. When we need something, we just write, you know, to other members of INAM, other startups as example, to help us in... From the management point of view, because as a startup, you have to ask a lot of questions. And second, and from the point of view of discussing ideas or solving problems in materials and chemistry and physics. And this is your network where you can ask people how. So mass production, like huge quantities, what's needed to get there and are you able to... If you can kind of show it on a piece of paper in this video that it's like a no-brainer and that it's like huge companies want to work with you. How fast does it get to mass production, huge quantities and everything? All the technology is scalable. So we have partners who produce these plasma machines in a huge, like room-like machines. They are both... They can be row-to-row machines. They can be stack-by-stack machines. So the technology is very, very scalable. The question always is how to convince manufacturers to switch to a new technology. So we present with them the numbers. We present them the benefits and also environmental benefits and cost-related benefits. And this process takes a lot of time usually because the chain of decision-making can be quite long. But the technology is already there. And hopefully in the near future we will be able to share something exciting in this regard. From the point of view of our production, as I told, we currently can produce something like 10 liters per week. And we can easily to increase this to hundreds of liters per week if there's a need. How much is 10 liters? How much can it do? Yeah, it's a good question. With inkjet printing, if you... With a medium-sized production, you usually need 20 to 50 liters per year of printed ink of the third of devices. So 10 liters per week is actually quite a lot. It can meet quite a lot of demand. Because in this unit that we see here in the video, it's just a little amount that's done each time. Or at the time it's a little amount and then another little amount and another... So the time is not linear here. So this is indeed a very little amount of ink. But to metalize a much, much larger amount of ink, you do not need to multiply by the right amount. You still are within 10, 15 minutes, even for huge amounts of time. So you are helping speed through to the future of flexible electronics, paper electronics, all this stuff. And it's going to be an interesting future, right? It's going to be a new world. Yeah, we really hope to see what people can do with this. All right, and how big is the team? I got an email from, I think, Christina, right? Yeah. Can you talk about the team? Yes, we have a great team. We are now six people with our most recent additions to the team. The people joined just last month in February. We had a wonderful intern named Taha, who is a chemist. And we had a wonderful co-CEO named Klaus, who is a doctor of economics. And we were diversifying and growing. Yes, we are growing. Last year we had an increase. So we have Marie, who is our commercial director, and she's working to promote, mostly to promote our materials and our products. We have as Constantin told Christina, who is chemist. We have Taha, who is intern and also chemist. And we have Klaus, who is joined us this month. And he is going to help us to promote sales of our materials. And you were mentioning Israel before? Yeah. So how long have you been in Israel and how long have you been in Berlin now? Since 2018, two and a half years. And Berlin, over the past year, I hope it's been what's called great? Berlin is always great. I am a big enthusiast. People are allowed to walk around and everything. It depends on the policy people have with this strange thing happening. Yeah. So people are allowed to walk around in a limited capacity. And we hope to see cafes and bars opening quite soon. It hasn't happened yet, but... It's worth summer of experience. Some changes. Hopefully sooner, yeah. Yes. Because we have some limitation about working hours, because we have to make our work here on shifts. Because we can't, you know, all people can be present at the same time. But we managed to work and a lot of working from home. And so before with Israel, you say? Yes. Like how long were you there? Oh, a lot of time. Both of us came to Israel when we were teenagers. Oh, teenagers. Separately, of course. Yes. But yes, we generally grew up mostly in Israel and finished school in university. We finished school and did all our education in Israel. All right. Cool. So and hopefully not too distant future opening offices around the world. Is that the plan? So offices, airports, our parents still live in Israel and we haven't seen them in more than a year. So, yeah, fingers crossed. Fingers crossed for opening of borders and offices and bars. I'm also missing draft beer quite a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Because now you cannot, so we just get a bottle of beer. But can you have it installed at a tap? When we're a little bit bigger. Okay. Yes. Okay. That's a dream. All right. So that's cool. So thanks a lot for giving an update on the future according to oral tech. Thanks for having us there. And what is the oral tech? What does it mean? It was started as organic electronic technology. But we moved forward far away from just organic electronics. We expand to many more other applications since our beginning of the company, we expand ourselves quite to different directions. But oral is not a person, right? No. It's organic electronics because the idea was started from... Because your PhD was... I did my PhD in organic electronics materials and printing all ads or transistors. And the idea of the startup came from my scientific background. And because I was focused at the time mostly on organic printable devices. So it was organic electronics. All right. Cool. Thanks a lot. And looking forward to seeing what's next from your technology. Thanks. Thanks a lot. We will update you if we have something more exciting this time. Thanks for the live demo here on the online internet conference. Yeah. Thank you very much. Thank you. It was fun. Bye-bye. Thanks everybody for watching.