 Okay, welcome back. We're at week 12 and we're moving into our next topic. I did want to spend a little bit more time on this topic. However, we may, you know, we're just going to bridge this. The topic going forward is what we're looking at particular issues in counseling. And we're going to be just broadly picking up a couple of relevant areas. We're not looking at how counseling would happen in these areas generally, but we're just going to have an overview. So in this hour, as well as the next couple of weeks, we're going to be looking at mental health. We're going to be looking at marriage and family. Next week on, we'll be looking at counseling the abused grief counseling and counseling in depression and suicide. So these are some common topics that we are just picking up to have a real overview. And this is very basic in its nature. This is just for overall understanding. If you are interested in more, there definitely requires a lot more of exploration in these areas and a lot more learning. But this is just like, you know, tip of the iceberg for you to just, you know, pinch your interest a bit. And that's all that this is meant to do because the course in itself is limited in how much we could cover because these are extensive topics in itself. But it is just to build an awareness about for today, it's just mental health and marriage and family that we are going to spend. So I'd just like to spend a couple of minutes on each to give you an overview of what can you expect or what are some of the things that you need to identify. That like, you know, there's someone who has a mental health issue, you need to know that they're going through a mental health issue. Or if there is a family or a child who's coming with you with a certain problem, you need to know that, you know, there are problems like this, so that you use your wisdom to deal with them. Okay, just give me a minute. I'll just quickly share my screen. Okay. All right, so we're going to be looking at the, like I said, the special specific particular issues in counseling and I'm on page 42 of the book that I may not go through everything in detail. I'm just going to give you a little bit, some a few things that's outside of our understanding of this. But broadly, I'd like to cover a couple of things that's important for us to know is to first of all, let's for us to understand what is mental health. Now, if you look at the definition that's given in your book, it says mental health is a level of psychological well-being or an absence of a mental disorder. So it mental health is a sense of well-being that a person has or, you know, someone who may not have a mental disorder. Now, it is a state of someone or of people who are able to function in different areas of their life to some form of optimism or adjustment. Okay. So it's a state where where an individual is able to function in different areas of their life. And here, if you look at this slide, it talks about eight dimensions of well-being or of wellness and I want to quickly go through each of this just for us to understand why this is important. Okay. So number one is, you know, just being able to maintain a good mental health is a balancing act. And if you look at this wheel, there are many factors that make up our mental well-being. It is from our personal lives to our social lives from our occupation to even our spirituality. So when certain areas of our life are out of balance, there can be certain compromises that are made to our mental health or a sense of not feeling okay. Okay. Now, this is especially true with those who live with mental illness. Mental illness, remember, is another layer that you have to the balancing act of keeping a good mental health. Okay. And so we're talking about mental wellness. All right. And one of the helpful tools that we can look through is something that we say is the wellness wheel. It's a very simple, easy to use resource that can offer a way to look at the different aspects of life that affect our mental health. So this wellness or let's say mental wellness is the concept of a positive mental health and the absence of an illness or absence of a disease. So reaching a place of wellness is generally not always straightforward. And maybe there are no certain signposts that actually marks you to say that you are completely mentally well. Well, wellness is a pathway to well being and for us to just ensure that a lot of these areas are in a place of optimal help. So this wellness wheel recognizes a multifaceted approach that is a very effective way to work towards mental well being. So it's a very visual tool and we understand the factors that affects it. So let's just go through. There are eight dimensions of it. I just quickly go through each of this so that, you know, we're able to recognize that it is important that an individual be healthy in these different areas. So the when you're looking at the emotional and start with that the emotional part of the emotional wellness is it's your it's where your to know that our emotions affect everything from the mood to our mindset to outlook on on the world. So our emotional wellness as we have been talking about consists of our thoughts are emotions and our capacities to deal with challenges that come about in our lives. So when one is struggling with emotional wellness, they have a hard time feeling content or even sharing how they feel with others or even being able to relax. But when you're doing well emotionally well, you can experience your emotions as they are while still feeling good about yourself. Okay, so that's what we look about in emotional wellness in physical wellness and that is something that doesn't need much of an explanation, but it is another pillar that holds this overall mental health. So caring for your body, listening to the cues that gives you are important parts of maintaining this, this, this area. So when you neglect your physical wellness, it can definitely cause a poor lack of sleep, it can, it can cause illness, it can cause injuries. Even eating good food, getting good exercise are ways and of course maintaining a good sleep cycle are all ways to contribute to this physical wellness that of course leads to a good mental mental health balance. The next one is we can look at intellectual. Now intellectual wellness doesn't mean that you need to be a genius. That's not what it means. It just refers to being engaged mentally in mentally stimulating or creative activities that engage your mind. So intellectual wellness means that you're able to think critically, you're open to ideas, you're looking for certain outlets that are creative and that are critical. So signs of intellectual wellness have a strong sense of self. It has a good set of values that you live by, as well as the ability to question and challenge yourself. So that's what the intellectual wellness is about. The social wellness involves your connections around you between you, your family, your friends, people you're working with, your colleagues, your acquaintances, or anyone else in your life. So having strong relationships in one's life makes a huge difference in mental health. That's seen as one of the greatest indicators of good mental wellness that is having a good social support system. When your social wellness is strong, you often can communicate effectively. You're able to be in a group well. You're able to develop a relationship with others. You're able to see others grow, help others through their journey of life. So that's what social wellness is. An environmental wellness is that which refers to your surroundings. That is from your personal to your professional life. So having a positive environmental wellness means that you are aware of the spaces you spend your time in and the spaces which are healthy. So when you're surrounded, let's say in any space, maybe at work or at home or at any other social setting that you are in, if you're surrounded by stress and negativity, your mental health is going to suffer. On the other hand, when you're able to be engaged in a good environment, it keeps you motivated to reach your goals or to keep you safe or even though there may be difficulties and challenges. The next one we see here is occupational wellness. Again, this means working in something that is either in a career or in a vocation that brings meaning and purpose for the work that you do. So if you work in a place that doesn't make you feel useful or satisfied, it's going to bring one down and leave you feeling you're wasting your time. But when you're dedicated to occupational wellness, you're actually doing the work that interests you and motivates you to work hard and also do your best. Then comes financial wellness. Although we see that finance and money isn't everything, having money is an absolute necessity in life. And it can be an incredible stressor and a severe lack of it can have a serious negative impact even on the mental health. So dedication to financial wellness is eliminating anything that brings about stress. So financial wellness involves making responsible choices about your living, responsible ways of spending, of investing within your means so you can contribute to the success that is there for you. And of course, the spiritual wellness, which involves the practice of building on your... Now remember, we are talking about this in general. So building on the system of belief that matters to you or you're recognizing your purpose in life with God. Now when you're looking at it from a believer's perspective, you see that this is the system of belief and value that you build in Jesus that really helps to cultivate that wellness. And we see that when you dedicate that to dedicate time in cultivating that spiritual wellness, there is a lot of positive mental health benefits that we see. So when we look at this entire wheel, it gives us a good understanding of what it takes to be mentally well. Now quickly to just look at what can be certain factors that lead to mental ill health or mental disorders. And I want to label... Now this is not a complete list, but I've tried to put in as much as I've been able to bring up. Okay, there are certain factors that affect mental health or you would say like when you find someone who has a mental illness, someone with either depression or anxiety or anything to with that spectrum, which I have a slide on. We look at different factors that contribute to mental disorder. And when we look at the biological factor, so there are three specific domains. Okay, that is what are biological factors, what are social factors, what are psychological factors. So biological factors is something that science has come up and is beginning to learn and understand is that a lot of major mental health disorders are because of neurochemical changes or changes in the brain because of neurochemical transmissions of certain neurochemicals. So there is a huge part of neurochemistry that plays in the role of a mental health disorder. There can be genetic predisposition that is having a family member with a mental illness makes it more likely for another individual to have a mental illness. Mental illness can come as a result of certain medication and side effects of certain medication. People taking too much of a medicine for long periods of time can affect in maybe anxiety, can affect in depression or other kinds of disorders. There can be somatic disorders, very often somatic is everything to do with the body aches and pains that come which are a lot more biological in nature. Like for example, you know people who have rheumatoid rheumatism often do have somatic disorders and that in itself can lead to a mental health concern. Okay, a lack of physical exercise, a lack of nutrition can lead to mental health concerns, substance abuse, too much of a substance, either alcohol or other drugs can deal with. It can bring about a mental health concern or developmental issues like with regard to especially when you're looking at autism or mental retardation or developmental delays, all of them have a biological component to it. Okay. Now when we look at psychological factors, the way that and here there are a couple of things over here your personal identity. How, how you've seen yourself and where is it that you hold your identity to your emotional health, which is something we've spoken about your cognitive factors the way that you think the way that you're thinking process goes. Maybe it's a it's a large pessimistic way of thinking that can lead to mental health concerns that could be certain behavioral factors you know certain patterns of behaviors that you've grown up in. That could affect mental health coping skills how would how how strong is one's resilience in the midst of an affliction is something that causes mental health issues. And of course the sense of purpose and this is where I want to go back to the those three crucial needs we've spoken about you know the the fact of the need of love the need of security in the sense and the need for a purpose. Often, you know when when none of that is there, it can lead to a mental health concern. Social issues we see culture religious beliefs often can lead to forms of mental health concerns and what do we mean by religious beliefs. You know, often think like, for example, of completely negating that sometimes depression can be absolutely biological in nature than it could be. You know the belief or the thought that you're a weak person or you do not have enough faith in God and that in itself can create a sense of pressure that could go that could have a certain illness be untreated. And as a result, you know, have significant difficulties in in the mental health interpersonal relationship issues within in relationships can affect mental health. Social support gender identity, how one sees their gender. Again, even sexual orientation that in itself can, which is way down in that list, but sexual orientation also can affect mental health the expectations that one has of themselves. Societal expectations that come by can bring about a lot of mental health issues. Family background, employment status, environmental events, socioeconomic status disability, all of this have a potency to cause some kind of a mental health challenge. Okay, now I've gone through this list very quickly just for us to have an idea as to what really affects what what what are the factors that affect mental health or what contribute to mental health issues. Okay. Moving forward, quickly, just to give you an overview of what are the different kinds of mental health disorders. Why is this important to know is because, you know, when, especially when counsellors come to you there maybe there is a need to understand if they are going through a mental health disorder. And usually when people are going through a florid symptoms of a mental health disorder, counselling is counter indicative, you know, you do not counsel someone who has a florid mental health disorder they may require a different level of intervention before you can come to a place of counselling them or even giving them spiritual mentorship. Okay. Now, broadly, there are different categories but we've just kept around eight so that, you know, it's easier to understand mood disorders like depression, or bipolar disorder. Now, there are two major mental health disorders, and it's the first one and the sixth one on this list, mood disorders is depression and bipolar disorder often require medication. The sixth one is schizophrenia. It's called a thought disorder that there are issues in the way one thinks and that in itself causes being outside of the reality that they are in. Okay. So one and six that is labeled over here are what we would generally suggest as major mental health disorders. Okay. The minor mental health disorders. These are no more classified like this. But, you know, I just felt that it's important for us, you know, for our learning activity just for us to know this classification will actually also just be helpful. In minor mental health disorders is where you will find anxiety. Okay. Anxiety disorders are those that is a generalized anxiety, worry, fear over things. So that's the anxiety disorder. Post traumatic stress disorder is usually seen when there is some form of trauma that happens. You know, either it's an environmental trauma, it's a natural trauma or a personal trauma. Like for example, let's say there is a rape or there is abuse or there is an accident or there is a natural disaster that happens or, you know, significant emotional abuse that happens over time. All of this and post the trauma that there seems to be either depression or anxiety and that's what's called as post traumatic stress disorder. Okay. We also do have obsessive compulsive disorder and these are more repetitive in nature. People have struggles in their thoughts that are obsessive ruminate three thoughts that keep happening and they feel compelled to do something or else, you know, the anxiety raises up. Now all of these conditions require medical treatment as well as psychological help or, you know, counseling to deal with that. The other and of course even eating disorder eating disorders are those that have their relationship with food is significantly in malfunction because of emotional disturbances that are there. So all these four are things that require both a lot of times both the medical intervention as well as the psychological intervention. There are this substance abuse disorder is when, you know, what is commonly known as an alcoholic, you know, it's a disease someone who has substance dependence is classified to have a disease. And of course personality disorders are those that have issues in their personality whereby it causes a strong issue in their functioning in relationships and in their in their occupational or vocational self and personality disorders are generally worked along with some small form of medication but largely it has to do with counseling and help. So this is important for you to know. I know we haven't gone into details, but you could always read them up to understand what they are so that sometimes it may be important for you to identify that someone who's coming to you has some kind of a mental disorder and really requires help for that before you can pursue counseling on with them. Okay, certain indicators of mental health. How do you know that people are in a good place or you know have a have a good mental health. So some some of these and there are a lot more that's written on your notes but I'm just going to talk about a few of this is the main signs of a good mental health is being satisfied, you know, having a good sense of value to oneself of knowing who you are and knowing who's you are in our in our language, just knowing that, you know, you have value and you've been created with dignity you've been created for for a purpose just being able to know that that in itself is a good sign of a mental health being engaged in a meaningful activity so having something to do whatever it may be it's not about the outcome of the success but just being meaningfully employed or meaningfully engaged when I mean by employed it doesn't mean that someone who earns only but just being meaningfully engaged in an activity so it could be studying it could be raising a home it could be doing some actual work it could be doing a business it could be even developing certain vocations or hobbies whatever just being engaged in a meaningful activity. Then a good connection with other people being able to have stable healthy relationships with people that show that is again is a good good mental health sign a sense of self control knowing where to draw a line in the way that one one becomes a consumer of things and this could mean different areas it could mean a substance it could mean, you know, a certain activity like maybe like shopping or, you know, an activity like like learning a skill. It's not something that needs to consume you so much so that you've lost control over how you work through something. So it's being able to draw boundaries on what is sufficient and what is not helpful. Okay, so this can it. This can be in very many different areas not just substances or not just when you're looking at issues like pornography or substances but it can be in the sense of eating in the sense of spending money in the sense of shopping in the sense of you know, going out whatever or you know even even in actual activities like sexuality all of that you know it's about having a place of knowing where to draw boundaries sense of self control. It's being able to also not hold on to negative emotions and like resentment anger bitterness but being able to release and forgive others on whatever challenges that they have been having optimism and hope. Looking with hope to the future is something that you would show you would say someone who has mental, a good mental health, someone who's tolerant over people over things over changing situations, just being tolerant over the and learning how to adapt in different situations being grateful. Being having a heart of Thanksgiving and of course the last one is having a good sense of humor. Now, now all of this, you know, helps one to see how they can, they can actively engage with themselves with the world outside in a in a manner that isn't that is that is functional rather than it being dysfunctional. Okay. Now, this was a quick, just a quick, you know, overview of what mental health is. But if you look through the the, you know, your notes, it kind of helps you see what as you as a believer or you as a Christian, how do you help someone with mental illness and you could go through that list. It's fairly easy. But I just want just a couple of pointers that I want to highlight on is one is to be educated to really know what are these different types, what are the symptoms of mental illness so that you are in a place, especially when you're even in a ministry, you know, you will be, I'm sure each one of us have come across somebody who's mentally ill in some sphere of our lives. And when I mean by mental illness, I'm not talking about the ones who are, you know, just walking out on the streets and and ragged and talking and shouting know they could be even in your home, someone who's having palpitations and panic and anxiety or or a sense of low self worth. These are all, you know, symptoms of some form of a mental ill health may not be a mental disorder, but sense of mental ill, ill health. So it's important to be educated and learn about these types of mental illness. One is to also face for yourself. What do you fear? What are your feelings towards mental illness? Is it something that that makes you afraid? Now, I know, especially among Christians who think only that mental illness has everything to do with the devil and the evil one. Okay. And I think that is, that is, that is a misconception that is not true. There are, like we said, you know, mental illness can come through through very many ways. Yes, one of the ways also can be a spiritual oppressive attack. And yes, it can be there as well. Maybe it started off as something that's biological, but but just tends to be very long drawn because, you know, there have been open doors that's come in and then it becomes very, very ingrained. But remember that not all mental illnesses are off the devil or off the off, you know, I can be attributed to the devil. Yes, the enemy plays along after a while. So to understand that and to face that fear to know what it is that that may require your intervention. So there are times, I mean, I've seen this with my, you know, in different scenarios where where there have been people who probably have have had significant someone who's extremely violent. Okay. And you're in to know to have the wisdom to deal with it. And I've seen there are times that Christian ministers have gone and, you know, spoken the devil out of them, and still they are manifest, they are, you know, in a place of having these symptoms. So it becomes very clear that there are times that they do need medical and hospital help. So just learning to admit your fears and asking number one to know or to be able to discern what needs medical help and what really requires something that is more spiritual. Okay. Other things about mental illnesses. Remember that that they are people, they are people like you and me, and a lot of mental illness can be cured. It can be treated rather. Sorry, I think someone has themselves of Kennedy may request you to please mute yourself. Thank you. Yeah, so that can be. But mental illnesses are people. Okay, and it is it, it, it can be treated. It can be there are some that may not be in in science. They say that it can't be cured but you know, we know different and I've seen people being healed of mental illnesses. But remember that they are people, they are like you and me, however, they, they may have certain symptoms that make them appear different, but to acknowledge that they are God's unique creation that they can be challenged to do things just as normally as others would do. The next thing also is to help families to help families deal with what they are going through because a lot of times it's the families that bear a greater burden in helping a member who is who is unwell and to to help with the resources that that that may be available within the community to help. So there are rehab centers. There are things called as halfway homes for those who are severely mentally ill. So these are things that need to be explored and helped and you know to ensure that you walk alongside with them and at work with them. And I think the rest of some of those pointers is something that you can you can look for in the notes and kind of follow. But I just wanted to focus on some that are that are significant and important. Okay, I'm just going to spend the next 15 minutes just quickly dealing with marriage and family and specifically issues in childhood and adolescence. Marriage and family, the common issues that you see and I think those of us who followed up in the earlier semester with marriage and family, you know, have a have a good idea as to what can be some of the causes of marriage issues. And then there is a huge list that's put up over here that can be issues with unmet expectations that can often arise to challenges that come about in families that could be differences in the way people are in their personalities. And that also causes concerns, the way that people are bought up and the kind of upbringing that they've had the the value systems they've had the roles that they've played, all of that kind of effects marriage issues and people come with issues for counseling. There can be issues with finances that come about issues with infertility issues with infidelity with with extended family members that can be addictions that they may have. There could be challenges that come in as a result of divorce and separation, there could be issues that come up as a result of illnesses, which are specifically physical or mental health in its in itself. Or there could be just be mere conflicts that occur because of certain environmental events that have taken place. So these are broadly the kind of challenges that come by. Now, when you're dealing with marriage with people in when you're working with marriage married couples right or within a family, something that you've got to really ensure is that when a family comes to you remember each one is coming to you with a desire and a hope that you are going to hear them out. Okay, so you're not standing there as a referee. Okay, you're there as a facilitator, because a lot of times families when they're attempting to deal with an issue themselves, they are not able to converse one with another. They are not able to communicate one with another because emotions are running really wild there. So when they have called you in or you are in there, you are not there as a referee or as a one who's siding with one person. Okay, you know, I'm siding for the husband or I'm siding for the wife because she seems to be the most the victim in this case. You're there one to be as a facilitator, you are engaging the entire family in communication to pick up most important points of conflict and working through that conflict. So it is important as a family counsellor, you provide a secure environment for every member there. And one of the key things that you're doing is actually looking at how they relate one to another. Really being observant how the family members relate one to one to another or the husband and the wife relate one to another and bringing back that is a feedback to them. So what is important is when you meet a family for counselling, the first thing that you would do is you're seeing them as a unit, you're not seeing them as a divided party as they have come, right. And the position that you stand and say, okay, what could the two of you as a couple or what could the four of you as a family, what can we work towards in as a goal in counselling. Okay, rather than asking it as an individual, what do you want separately, what is the father one, what is the mother one is saying, okay, as a collective unit, what is it that we can look forward as a common goal to work on. Okay, and as you do that what you're doing is you're not alienating one from another you're bringing them up together so that what you're attempting to also achieve is to help them to trust one another. One another through the change process. Okay, and from from working with a family, what you do what you are mainly focusing on is helping them develop their goals for change. Okay, if there is if there is a lack of understanding. Okay, what is the goal that we are going to do. If there is a lack of communication, how are we going to build to build that communication is if it's a misunderstanding. What can we iron out before we can come to a place of understanding if there is infidelity that is that I mean that is a different process in itself, you know, working with one another for forgiveness working with one another for more trust, working with one another for developing certain activities and ways in which they could reconnect one to one to another. So, the point that we're trying to make is you as a counselor does not get pulled in to support one member of the family. If you're doing that, you've lost the family. Okay, you remember you're standing as a facilitator to bring them all together so that they can collectively work on a certain goal to help them move forward. Okay, Shri Kumar, I'll take your question. I'll just complete this and I'll come back and take your question. Now, coming to what when you're when you're when you're dealing with children or when you're dealing with adolescents. Remember children and adolescents have other kinds also have different kinds of issues. So if you were to broadly categorize them. Again, these are part of your notes we can we categorize them to find out if they do have any mental health concerns the same way like we spoke about, you know, just a while ago that do they have depression, do they have any form of addictions. Is there a developmental disorder, you know, like, like for example, in that there are children who are what we call as slow learners. Okay, and it may not be because they are not paying attention in class or any of that developmentally they they're they're not developmentally they do not have an intellectual capacity to learn in a normal pace. Alright, or not a normal pace in a regular pace like, like how you would expect in a developmental chain. So that could be an issue that could be mental health concerns that you really need to figure out. Okay, or there could be behavioral concerns behavioral concerns are something to do with their conduct, maybe they're defined, or they're extremely oppositional, they could be severe temper tantrums that could be violence resulting as a as an as an issue of the behavioral issues that they're going through. So those, now these again are all to do. They do come under psychiatry, especially if there are behavioral concerns, like, like defiance or severe opposition, severe rebellion. And of course mental health concerns does come under the scope of psychiatry itself, but you need to be aware that children can go through this. So if there is, if there is a child who's coming to you with severe issues in behavior and conduct. Let's say, you know, has gang fights and, you know, walks around with a knife at home. Remember that there is a problem there. Okay, it's, it may not always again. Do not, do not always relate everything to the devil. There can be ways of upbringing that in itself has caused a behavioral difficulty with the child. Okay, remember these can be open doors where the enemy has has picked in and got his foot hold on. Okay, they can be family stressors that happen within children in in the lives of children and adolescents, because of issues in the family, you can see the the effect in a child, because of, let's say a divorce or separation or illness within the family or maybe a loss or a death in the family can affect the child in some some some area of life. Okay, there can be school stressors that can be difficulty in in the issues at school, maybe issues with with learning issues with with people, something called a separation anxiety which they are not they're not able to stay away from the from the caretaker at home and feel a sense of anxiety with that. There can be peer pressure that can be bullying that can be difficulties and learning, you know, unable to read unable to write unable to do math unable to spell. So these are all called learning disorders. Now this again is not learning disorders are not because they are poor in academics, but because there is a development disability to actually learn. Okay, and they may require specialized forms of treatment. Now I've given you a very, very broad overview, but every time you see an individual with some kind of a difficulty, ask yourself, is this something I may need to read up, or I may need to ask someone, you know, this is what is happening. Am I missing something? Or is this just, you know, some issue that probably can work with counseling. So these are broadly some of the things that we need to be aware of, and have certain guidelines as to understanding that there can be different factors that affect the mental health or affect a marriage and family and being a little more open to discover that there could be other issues and finding out what they may be. Okay. All right, I've gone in super mega speed. But yes, Shree Kumar, I'm ready to take your question right now. Thank you, Pastor. Pastor, I want to know, as you said, you should not be a when you when you are counseling with a with a husband and wife, you should not take only one side, but you should consider both of them together. In any case, now, in any case, only the one person is coming forward and wanted a counseling regarding to this and another person seems to be like, like, he's fine, he's not, he's not having an issue. And he's not interested in this matter at all the counseling or, or anything, anything, but if he thinks that he's a perfect person, and he don't need any counseling and is only his, the spouse and the wife needs a counseling. In that case, how you how we can able to handle this thing or how we will able to move further. And even if they gone for a counseling session in the past, where the counselors observed that there is a problem with the husband. And, and after the three, after first, second, third, after the third session, he just, just came out from the room and He was about to hit the counselor. So he became so violent and send he's saying that these are all nonsense. So he's saying that his wife is the only problem. So in that case, how how we can able to how how we look this this kind of a case, whether it is Is it connected with spiritual, as you were saying that sometimes we, we, as a Catholic, or sorry, as we spiritual people, we just take everything considered as on demonic. So, so even this family also he has seen that how his parents used to how his father used to How his uncle used to treat with their wives. So they used to take a knife. They used to beat. So now the same pattern he is using with his family or his wife and his with his children. So, and, and he's also very short temper. But if you look to him, if you meet personally, you will never find that he's a, he's a person like that, but with the family with this, especially with this wife and with those children, he's a very different person. So in this case, how, how we can church or how we can come to know that this is not a demonic thing or this is something which is a, which is something he is adapted from his parents, or and how we can come heal this family or how we can do how we how we can I can get the solution of this. Thank you first. When the, the wife is only the one who is approaching me and wants us to thank you. Yeah, so, so yeah, I mean, this is not as easy as 123 step because remember, number one, it needs the willingness of multiple people to come in for help. If there is one member in a marriage who's not willing for help. There is hardly anything that you can do except use whatever resources you can to bring them in. Okay, like in this case, empowering the wife or empowering other resources like family to get, get his help. Now, often in, in such a case like what you're saying where there is a lot of, and I would say that this has a lot to do with the personality. If you remember, we were talking about personality disorders. And a lot of this classifies on the people who have personality disorders, you know, a lot of negative functioning is ingrained in their personality and that's the way they behave and they feel that's the right way. And that's, that's, that's them. Right. That is, yeah, there's no remorse. There is no, no guilt. There is a sense of blame that's always thrown on another individual that is no, no factor of taking in any form of advice from somebody and if you read up on personality disorder, you will find a lot of these people fit into that personality disorder. Okay. And personality disorders come as a result of a lot of childhood upbringing childhood issues, and it becomes ingrained into adulthood and the people who suffer are the ones who live with them on a constant basis, whether it be wives or mothers or fathers or family members or employees, you will see that now that's a personality issue. Now, again, as I've, as I've said, it opens the door to the enemy. It opens the door to the enemy. Now, you may be able to deliver one from such but like how we learn in emotional wholeness, you have to journey into emotional wholeness, you have to journey to take that part staying emotionally hold just by casting out some casting out the spirit. Okay, let's say rebellious spirit will not will not will free them of the spirit but unless they keep themselves guarded, keep themselves in a place of humility and surrender to what you know what the spirit of God is doing being willing to be teachable. This is going to go back to itself and that we've learned. Okay. This is places where you educate and let the spouse or whoever know that this is a concern. This is a problem. They are going through a maybe yes, there's a spiritual oppression you probably prayed out and that's happened. But this is also something to do with the soul. It has a personality bond. It's binding. It's been binding to his personality and that needs regular intervention or regular help and counseling. So there. So on one hand you're educating the family and saying that you know this is something that requires help and he will need help. And I know that very often it isn't easy to get people like this to get help because it really requires a humbling process for them to come to a place of change and I'd say even those who have substance abuses or like addictions. They're also in this in the in the stage, you know, it takes it takes a while for that sanctification to happen. So it's not an easy journey. It's not an easy process. However, what you're doing on one hand is you are you you're attempting the best to bring them together to get the husband or the spouse whoever is the pro is a concern for help maybe required medical psychiatric help just as well as going through some kind of spiritual discipleship and mentorship if they're believers. Right. That's that's one part of it. And also, if you know a lot of that doesn't work is to empower the wife is to build her up to bring her to a place of healing bring her to a place of standing on her on her feet. Those are certain things that you need to do. And each of these cases are very, very different. Not all of them follow a similar pattern. You know, some there is a lot of positivity that you see some, you know, it's a long haul there is a there are a lot of challenges that come by. And actually the people to treat the the the the people who are hardest to treat are those generally with personality disorders because it's so ingrained in their personality to bring them out of it requires a lot of one on ones, a lot of getting them to personalize this problem and work through that. So it's not an easy route, Shri Kumar. But but like I always tell, especially caretakers of personality disorders, you know, and especially if they're believers that your prayer, working with God partnering with God to show you one step at a time is all that is something that can save you. You know, yes, you may need to do all the things that are in the in the natural counseling or psychiatric help or medication, all of that. But working with the Holy Spirit is that which holds on strong. Yeah, thank you, Pastor. I just have one more question because they are already completed their 25 years of marriage and so many people told them to stay. Yes, they were believers. And so many times, you know, she asked me that whether do you think that whether this marriage will work or not. So so I am always clueless because I don't know because the way how the things are going on. So I just wanted to I just need a I just need a wise advice from you just to do that what I should say that with that because 25 years somewhere, everyone said that you stay stay stay stay. And it is very hard for them to go because you don't know that they never he comes with the knife and whenever you know what will happen and so this is a very, very terrific situation sometimes. I mean, I, I, you know, I would say, I would personally say never give a person a decision on what they should do. They should be the ones to take it. Because, you know, I've had experience of people turning around and saying I did it because you said so. Right. And that was that was never my intention. But right. So being careful about how that you, you know, help her like, like we looked at the last part, you know, strategize and say what are your options? What are your options? Okay, staying with him, not staying with him. Being neutral, whatever, let's say there are the two, three options, help her to look at the pros and cons of each option and tell us, let her know that, you know, you use your wisdom to decide. Because it's very easy for them to finally take on a decision without well being well thought of and finally blaming you for it. So be very careful to do that. Okay, I think we'll, Samuel, I'll address your question next week. We are already getting to 12. Let's quickly close with a word of prayer. Heavenly Father, we thank you that you have taken, you have bought each one of us, Lord, to this role of helper, Lord in ministry. God, even as we see there are so many conditions and situations that that are beyond our understanding and our control. We have the greatest source and resource with us and that is you, the Holy Spirit. Lord, we pray that anytime we are faced with situations that need more wisdom and understanding, Lord, that we will not depend and trust on our own ways, on our own skills. But Lord, we will look to you and that you will open out doors to help people in the right way, the right time, in the right method. Lord, we cannot foresee very many things, but you have given us the power and the wisdom that when we ask, you will answer. Lead us into every truth, even as we deal with difficult cases and people and situations. Lord, that we will only do them good and nothing to harm them. Thank you for being our ready counselor, our great counselor, our efficient counselor. We submit ourselves at your throne of grace. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen. God bless. We shall meet you next week. Thank you all. Thank you for your patience. God bless. Thank you, Pastor. Thank you, Pastor. Thank you.