 Allow me to introduce myself. I'm a grown-up gold tween. Let me show you just what I mean. I'm a dinosaur. I'm Dan French, Secretary of the Vermont Agency of Education. I'm a veteran educational leader having worked across the state as a teacher, principal, and superintendent for about 20 years. I'm a big supporter of personalized learning and technology. For me, it's all about our children and the quality of their education, which needs to be delivered in a safe, positive learning environment, free from hazing, harassment, and bullying. Sadly, Vermont is no stranger to bullying. A key to stopping bullying is prevention and education. The show you are about to see is about a musical entitled Bully No More. As you see, you'll be watching the video musical presents bullying and its impact on children in a unique, thoughtful manner. Vermont has worked hard to implement bullying prevention programs and strategies. Age-appropriate programs are available to inform students and encourage conversations between and among students regarding tolerance and respect. A particular concern for me is the use of technology in this area. Technology can be a positive and exciting part of a child's educational experience, but we need to educate our children about the appropriate uses of technology on social media and other online channels. Please join me now as we listen to John Gale Moore talking about the show with Pat McDonald and hear him sing one of the amazing songs from the musical, Holding on to Hope. So John, you're going to sing next for us, Hold on to Hope and what attracted you to this song? Well, with every passing day of my life, I realize what a primal need hope is. I mean, in every situation, every time you see a disaster, natural disaster, or people losing their home in a fire or something, whatever it is, they've lost hope and there's nothing more important than hope, I think, to spur us on to continue living. And so when I heard this song, or when I heard the title of this song, I realized, oh gosh, this is a meaning of life. Great message for all of us. John Gale Moore with Hold on to Hope. If you believe in you, then we'll believe in you. Whatever weighs you down will fade away. Yesterday was bad, so leave it in the past. Forge ahead, create a brand new day. Hold on to Hope, like a safety rope. Rise above the insults and the tears. Don't take the guff, you're made of stronger stuff. Your laughter will be music to my ears. And you're an amaze with bullies at your heels. You feel you'll never find the exit door. Take a giant step, shoe some different roads. Follow paths you've never tried before. Hold on to Hope, like a safety rope. Rise above the insults and the tears. You're made of stronger stuff. Your laughter will be music to my ears. Sometimes you feel you're stuck inside a box. Or locked within a room without a key. Dropped into a well, pushed against a wall. There's bound to be an answer guarantee. Like a safety rope. You're made of stronger stuff. Your laughter will be music to my ears. You're made of stronger stuff. Great message. I love that. Hold on to Hope, like a safety rope. It's more than a safety rope. It's a life preserver. That's great. Speaking of Hope, what do you hope will happen to this great musical bully no more? Ideally, every school in the country would have access to the score and to the script and to whatever they need to put it on. Because when kids get to be the actors and present it and other kids see them presenting it, that's powerful stuff. It's one thing for kids to watch grown-ups do something. But when kids see other kids do it, that hits home. And the idea is for it to reach every child in the country and eventually the world because the message is so optimistic. Well, we hope this will help in some way. And I really thank you so much for being on the show. Appreciate it very much. John Gilmore, everybody. Thank you. For those of you who don't know, I'm Pat McDonald, the host of Vote for Vermont, where our tagline is Listening Beyond the Soundbites. This is a very unique show we're doing tonight. I have one guest in the studio that I will introduce in two seconds. So my studio guest, who is the writer and producer of this Bully No More, we're going to be talking about tonight, is Elaine DeVita Sklar. Elaine, welcome to the show. Thank you, Pat. And joining us as well is Ben Kinsley, who's co-host and co-producer. Ben, how are you? Good, thanks, Pat. So Elaine, could you tell us a little bit about yourself and what led you to create Bully No More? Well, my dad was a Broadway actor and my mom was a ballerina. And all my life I wanted to write and be on the stage. So from the time I was in kindergarten through college, I performed in shows. And then when I got out of college, I went to summer stock, I did dance recitals, and then I owned, produced and directed the Greenwich Repertory Theater Company for about 15 years. And I also worked in all the schools and had a company that produced and directed shows for children called the Children's Theater Workshops. So I had a lot of experience in the school system. And I went on to teach and I have a master's in education. And that basically is my professional history. But as a child, I was horribly bullied. I had punks put in my face. I had my hair chopped off. It went on for years and years. So I can really empathize with children who are suffering every day from bullying. And so what I did was I took my experience, my education, my background and my ability as a writer, and I wanted to write something. And I wrote Bulley No More because I feel it's going to make a difference. That's great. And we are glad you did. I'm anxious for people to pay attention and to hear about this. What research did you do regarding bullying and the message that are proven to work? Because we talked about age appropriate and all the things that Linda Johnson talks about. Well, the research, being in education, there's bullying in schools, in camps, in the workplace, in the streets, at home. And it's rampant and it's everywhere. And when we first wrote the show, I premiered it at the Spruce Peak Performing Arts Center in Stowe. And 3,000 children, their families, their siblings came to see this show. So it was pretty impressive. And after one of the premieres, it ran for two weeks and sold out every night. Linda Johnson, who is the Executive Director of Prevent Child Abuse, came into the lobby and introduced herself and we met. And she said that she really, really loved the show. But would I change it? That's Linda. And I was a little bit caught off guard, but here I knew that she had a position and she worked with children. And I said, my goal is to have this make a difference. And I wrote it with passion and I wrote it from my heart, but perhaps I didn't have all the facts. And so I worked with Prevent Child Abuse and I changed it. And I'll give you an example of one of the things I did. The original name of the show was bully be gone. The word bully was a noun. And so what we were doing was we were ostracizing the bully, which was not what the show was about. The show was about changing behavior. So I changed the title to bully no more. Now bully is a verb. Now we're dealing with behavior and it changed the entire show. And we worked on the whole show. We worked on things like that, trying to make it appropriate for children. Good. Yeah, I think that's a message that... And also as far as being age appropriate, this was very interesting. During the premiere, as I said, there were mainly younger people there. And I came out after one of the shows in the lobby and there was a big group of senior citizens. And they came over to me and there was one lady, she must have been the leader, and she picked up her cane and she started poking me with her cane. And she said, you listen to me young lady, you think this show is only for children? Well, you're wrong. And then she pointed to her about a dozen show of these people. And they were all bullied 75 years ago and we had to suck it up. She said, this show is for everyone. So I thought that was very interesting. That's right. And she was definitely right. And if you think about it, the show, if you take The Wizard of Oz or The Lion King, these are shows that are for everyone and bully no more fits into that category. Well, how many times have we heard from our parents you can be mad at what the person does but you shouldn't be mad at the person. And that's what this is telling us. Yeah. Yeah, it's an important message, I think, to make that distinction. So what helped you choose to do the show here in Vermont as opposed to all the other venues that might have been of interest to you? Well, I moved to Vermont in 2007 permanently. I was a skier and I was a writer and I played hockey and I swam. And so, and my daughter, Danielle, also, Davis, she also lives in Vermont and of course, John Gilmour is a Ron Fomander. So we wrote the show in Vermont and it was logical to produce it in Vermont. And then we had this amazing venue at the Spruce Peak Performing Arts Center in Stowe which is a 407-seat theater. It's state-of-the-art and every weekend they bring in phenomenal professional shows. We had the opportunity to run it for two weeks, including matinees, and we literally, we sold out every single night. Ready? Sorry. John, could you tell us why it was so important for you to be part of Bullying No More? Well, I've experienced bullying parentally. My daughters have been victims of it and not life-threateningly or viciously, but they know about it. They've been hurt by it and I know a lot of other kids have been hurt since I spent so much time in schools. Right. I see it all the time. All the time. It's a daily occurrence. And it's a real scourge, I think. And when I heard about this show, Bullying No More, I just was drawn to it because it presents a great message and in a great, positive way. And it can be very effective. So I knew I had to be a part of it. That's great. And I'm sure it's going to help once we get it out there and people start seeing it and singing the songs. And the first song you're going to sing is Going Bananas. Could you talk a little bit about Going Bananas? Sure. Well, yeah, I know about the concept as well, but there's this monkey who is a bully and there's a unicorn who's one of the victims and the unicorn wants to have the monkey feel what it's like to be bullied and what it's like. So the unicorn hides his bananas and it's a very, very devastating for this poor guy. Seriously. John Gale Moore with Going Bananas. Bananas, bananas, bananas This can't be happening to me I think I'm going bananas They must be under that tree Oh no, my goodness They're all gone Why don't you better tell My hand hurts and I'm missing Am I under some kind of spell? Bananas, bananas, bananas I'll get you for what you've done My bananas So I can have my lonely You can't know how I feel Without my bananas I'm hungry You had no right to steal We did not take your bananas You did Tomorrow it may take a couple of days Just help me find my bananas I promise not to tease I really need my bananas Look, I'm changing I'll even say please That's good So you also found a publisher for Bulley No More and I think we need to talk a lot about the publisher because that's how people can find out about the getting the rights to do the play and stuff so why don't you talk about them Well, the publisher is Tams Whitmark and it's a wonderful story how we got to them it's a miracle and it's going to help tens of thousands of children because of just a moment Tams Whitmark is the foremost publisher of Broadway musicals in the world and when I produced the show I wanted to offer it not just to that one group but I wanted to offer it all over Vermont and also nationally even to Canada so I thought well, I don't really know about royalties because when you charge a school or a camp or a youth group you have to look at the number of seats in your auditorium the cost of the ticket and how many nights you're going to produce that show and I had no idea how the algorithm would work so why did I choose thousands and thousands of publishers why did I pick Tams Whitmark going back when I was in high school I was in the play You Can't Take It With You and the first day we all sat on the stage and I remember the director Mrs. Pentillary she said I want to go around in a circle we don't know each other and she says and I want to hear about you tell me about what your interests are but mainly what do you want to do as a career when everybody was thinking you know they kind of were caught off guard and one said oh I want to be a doctor or a lawyer or a scientist or whatever when they got to me I never hesitated I said when I graduate college I am going to write a musical that will be published by Tams Whitmark there you go and this is decades later so who would I call to find out about the algorithm how did you know about Tams Whitmark in the first place well because I owned the Greenwich Repertory Theater which was mainly I did musicals and I had licensed many many shows from Tams Whitmark I mean I knew them from being from a child so that's how that's how I decided to do that so I call up Tams Whitmark and I explain what I'm trying to do and the woman who answered the phone said I really don't know where to direct you she said would it be okay if I gave you the president's email let me think about that I said that would be very okay so the algorithm went out the door and I immediately sent him the script and I sent the music and then I wrote him an email and the end result was he read it he thought it was timely he thought the songs were empowering he thought the story was terrific and he said that he wanted to publish the show and the way he phrased it he said would you be interested in having Tams Whitmark publish this musical yeah hello absolutely and that's how we got our publisher good for you that's great well you just mentioned the music and obviously the songs in a musical are an integral part of the show so what messages do they deliver to help you know get the word out about the show and its message and I also need to know how many songs does John sing and do you sing who's singing the songs in the shows mostly is that John well the CD that we made for Tams Whitmark we rented a professional studio and we hired Dwight and Nicole who are very well known in Burlington and she was a finalist on The Voice and John sang and I sang and my daughter Danielle sang and the five of us played the nine parts and then the music we just sang and then the music was sent to Utah and Warner Brothers Studios musicians they did the background for it and then a former Disney artist did the logo so that's how we got the whole thing together So either you or John or your daughter wrote either together or singly wrote all of this music I wrote the book and most of the lyrics and John wrote a lot of the music I wrote some of the music and my daughter wrote she wrote one song and each of them as we've gone through they all have a message yes to supporting the they do they do and the message is that bullying is bad behavior and it has to change and in the songs we say you never give up you hold on to hope even though we do not live in a perfect world and that is true that's true so what led you to choose prevent child abuse as one of the recipients of a percentage of the revenue generated by the show and in full disclosure Pat is a member yes I actually admitted that in my interview with Linda that's important right well I knew immediately that the show was going to have an effect on the performers and the audience but I wanted to do something more and once I met Linda and I saw what prevent child abuse does how they help children every single day and more so how the funding to do these things is so limited they really are in constant need of help and so I thought well maybe I can work something out so I contacted Tams and they agreed to give 50% of their royalties back to PCAVT for their healthy relationship programs and they have programs that are local and national and then we as the creators myself and John and Danielle we also agreed that we would give a portion of what we got back to PCAVT in perpetuity and if you think about it once this show gets out there because when when the president and CEO of Tams published this he said I honestly believe that this show could be as popular in the future as Charlie Brown and Sound of Music and you think about it if 5,000 schools that's not even a lot did the show think of what would come back to prevent child abuse for months and of course our future goal which is down the road is that if this does become popular we will do an animated film with 9 stars once you do that you join the Sesame Street group kind of in a way we could have a clothing line we could have I mean I have great creams we could have a clothing line we will do product endorsements we will do video games and toys and games this can be a cottage industry but what it will do for children is phenomenal and I I don't know if you've ever met the staff at PCAVT but as passionate as Linda is it's all reflected in the staff every one of them is as passionate as she is which is really why I've stayed on so long yes great place go ahead well Pat he's raving about John Galemore and I think a lot of people in Vermont can but how did you come to partner with him to create a lot of these musical scores I think you said almost all but one of the musical notes in the play is involves him in some way there's a there's a song in Hello Dolly and it's called it only takes a moment right and my life is completely based on moments and I think if we think about it really major decisions that we make in our lives just happen we just happen to turn a corner or something and that's how I met John when I moved to Vermont as I said I played hockey and I skied and I used to swim laps every day and I thought I really want to meet some people because I'm kind of joined a swim class at Topnotch Resort in Stowe on the mountain road and one day the weather was horrible and I went I was the only one in the class so the instructor was Amy Noise and who does a lot of radio and you know she's a hockey player too so we had a lot in common and she said Elaine she said what what brought you here I mean what is your career what are you going to do here and I said well actually I'm a novelist I've written a novel and I said I'm a playwright and I said I'm going to partner with and she said I have just the person she and if there were more people in the class this conversation would never have happened and of course that person was John Galemore so I called John up and he came over and we sat and we started to write and that was it we wrote the musical Bully No More and we just clicked I mean I would write lyrics or some music he would write music he would work on this and that and it was just an amazing relationship John is I cannot tell you how much I admire John he has done musical workshops with children from the ages of kindergarten right through high school college he's worked with corporations John toured with the Burlington Symphony he's released I think six albums and he even represented Vermont and ran and carried the torch to Atlanta for the Olympics and represented the state of Vermont at the Kennedy Center for their 25th anniversary I love it he's such a great man I was so impressed he is a terrific guy and we had so much fun we just had great fun I would bring the bagels and he would bring the coffee and it was a wonderful relationship so I feel very honored to have written this with him well I think that's reflected too and you know we talk about creative works if you if you don't have fun doing it right you can tell in the end product right it's all about are you doing something you're passionate about are you doing something that you find engaging and I think that tells in the end product well my attitude is about life in general is that you have to enjoy well like you said you have to enjoy the ride right because if you're just going for the top dollar if you're just going for success whatever success means to you first of all you just never reach that and the people who do reach suddenly say well what do I do now you know and this isn't as great as I thought I mean I love to ride and I love to be part of things like this so I truly believe that bully no more is going to be an international success there's no question in my mind but that's not the goal the goal is to just get it out to some of the schools to help some children to help the kids if I can help a hundred thousand that's great if I can help one thank you well those of you who follow me on Facebook know that we went to John Gilmour he was just delightful I was very impressed so could you talk a little bit about your daughter you've mentioned her Daniel Davis and how she came to be part of the trio here well I'm so proud of my daughter Danielle has a master's in science with a focus in mathematics and she teaches math in the Stowe Middle School but she's an accomplished writer she's won awards she's written a novel she's on the Board of Directors for the Stowe Theatre Guild and this summer I had the privilege of seeing almost every production every show she directed Hello Dolly and it was just wonderful so she has tremendous ability in editing and there was just nobody else I could think of to you know edit the book and the lyrics and then she wrote one of the songs Rabbit Rabbit so she's very very talented and she has she's definitely had experience with schools and with bullying and she has four wonderfully talented musical sons of which of course I am extremely proud I understand Harry, Sam, Jack and Charlie and they're very gifted and so she's had that experience being in the school she's been in the schools for years that's great so she understands bullying oh definitely understands I'm sure well this is I mean this is such a timely subject you know both now and we have a whole new dimension to bullying which is online bullying through the internet and it's not something you see it's not the way that it used to be where you could see something happening in the hallways in school now you can't see that all the time because it's not happening in the school hallway it's happening before school or after school and it's not as visible perhaps as it used to be so what message are you hoping to get across to parents, to young people to educators through a play like this that has a message to it well bullying is not okay and parents have to pay more attention to their children I think they get in a they get in a routine of what they have to do and if the kids are playing a video game or they're off by themselves doing homework whatever the attention is not the same the family is not the same and if a parent notices or even slightly believes that their child is being bullied or if their child is a bully they must step in and what I don't think a lot of people realize is there's 160,000 children who do not go to school every day because they are terrified of what they might have to face so bully no more is a perfect musical because it educates but it doesn't preach and it's very entertaining so it's definitely going to hit a nerve and it's definitely going to make an impression on kids you mentioned something which I hadn't thought about before but the parent looking to make sure their child is not the bully I've been thinking about the child who is bullied but the parents need to step in because they think their child is a charmer well that's a difficult position too no parent wants to believe that their child is the bully and I don't know how you deal with that but I'm sure somebody's there to help you I hope to teach a parent how to deal with that well that's why we need adults to come into the mix and in this show we have the dinosaur who is the adult so we've been talking about in general the musical but could you share with us the storyline itself what it's about yes the setting is in another universe and the planet is called the land between and dinosaur who is as I said the adult in the mix must have an adult dinosaur is traveling around through the galaxies and the rocket ship malfunctions and dinosaur crash lands and gets to meet the bullies the lion, the owl, the rabbit and the monkey and the four targets which are the skunk the unicorn, the duck and the elephant and each one is bullied by the group of bullies and by individuals and skunk is a geek and a scientist who has discovered a solution to pollution but the lion who's the leader of the bullies are appropriate for a skunk yes exactly I just got that okay there was thought behind that I could see that and so the lion wants to steal this formula sell it to the highest bidder but cannot get it released you know by the skunk so they what they do is they decide that they were going to discredit the skunk on me-tube by saying that the skunk is trying to poison the atmosphere which of course is not true and then there's the monkey the monkey embarrasses unicorn unicorn is extremely insecure and the bullies make believe that unicorn doesn't exist not there and the land between this planet is the only place in the entire galaxy in all the galaxies where a mythological creature such as unicorn can be seen so not to be seen to be ignored is absolutely devastating then there's duck duck is dyslexic and owl who is very smart is not wise and makes fun of the fact that duck cannot read and the last characters are the rabbit the rabbit is this little guy or woman doesn't matter division one athlete and tortures elephant because elephant is overweight and somewhat clumsy but in the end each one of the bullies has an experience that helps them change their behavior and at the end they all agree to bully no more nice cool very cool where were they in my high school I asked them well I like how how they kind of all fit in different groups how the animals kind of fit in you know if you walk down a high school hallway you can see some of those groups you know you have the jocks the geeks the nerds you know you see some of those divisions in the animal kingdom I guess and that's really interesting because when we did the show we were surprised the actors who did the show at the spruce peak performing arts center were adults but when the students came out and they were from young right through high school it was interesting that they gravitated towards the character with which they either had something in common or with whom they had an issue and we never expected that and every single show was the same because we got the stories from the actors in the back they said we never expected that they were actually very moved by this that's great I can totally see that because you know you have like a skunk you have certain perceptions about a skunk same thing with a rabbit or a dinosaur an elephant or any of those like and kids get this because they know animals are cool to them and animals aren't cool to the rest of us but particularly for children they're fascinated with this and I can see that how that would happen naturally it's very cool so how can your show be performed by younger children say elementary school who wanted to maybe recreate this at their own school I think this was the most exciting thing for me because bullying unfortunately is starting younger and younger starting when the kids are really really young and even though the show is for everyone once they see it how do you get little kids to be in a show I mean they don't even have the facilities or the ability to do something like that but it can be done and it can be done in such a way that bullying is just not a one-time show that the kids are going to see whether they bring someone else to do it or they try to get the kids to do it what you do is you get the script there are 18 songs the teachers get together for a meeting you read the dialogue to the first song and the second etc and you decide which grades would be best to do each section and every week at a Friday meeting or at the auditorium or every two weeks whenever it happens you start the show with that grade that's going to do it it may take three minutes or it may take seven minutes but you go up and it's kind of like what's going to happen next and for that whole term or the whole year anti-bullying is popular bullying is not so you're actually getting these kids to feel not just one day when they're not even paying attention I'm in the show you know I'm going to do this this is wonderful you know I'm going to be part of this and it keeps it on their mind for all those weeks whether they're in the show or not they know they're going to see more about bullying so that's a great thing yeah it keeps it as a topic for sure and I bet they do so one thing that we talked about you and I that there is a discussion guide that goes along with the with the script and the video and stuff and Linda Johnson is here to talk a little bit about it so I'd like to introduce you to Linda Johnson who's the executive director for prevent child abuse Vermont Linda welcome thank you Matt repeat performer you and Elaine when you heard about bully no more you offered to write this discussion guide which I've got right here and I wanted people to know about it because especially teachers who might want to do this amazing musical will find that guide very essential and could you talk about what you hope the discussion guide will accomplish well I think it'll give teachers and other folks who are really working with the students and creating the show together tools to work with the students because of course we always want to be developmentally appropriate and trauma informed and we want to make sure that everyone is safe in doing the show and then in processing it afterwards that's great you also say in the guide that bullying prevention starts with adults correct yes adults are really in charge of life for children and they model and they teach and children are always listening and always learning from grownups that's great I think we forget that somehow in our schools and stuff and I think this what we're talking about tonight really emphasizes the role of the parent absolutely the parent the teacher the administration we set the tone we make the rules the policies and then we need to share them with students so that they also understand what we expect from them and what normal is you have in the guide just some language and some words that I wrote down in a very lengthy sentence but I was hoping you could talk a little bit about them either separately or model healthy relationship skills be askable adults and provide consistent and empathetic response absolutely I couldn't have said it better myself but then I think I did so it's so important that we model for students what is healthy and what is appropriate being respectful with each other listening to each other supporting one another caring about each other having empathy when things go south here's the one I needed help on the guide talks about the language we use and I didn't realize until we talked about it the importance of language when you talk about trauma informed that was really a useful lesson for me you're very kind Pat wonderful well I think none of us really came into this work understanding all the bits and pieces and how our language really creates an environment one way or the other it's so important that we use verbs when we talk about bullying as opposed to he's a bully she's a bully it's so important that we talk about being victimized as opposed to being a victim because that doesn't mean once a victim always a victim and bystander also terribly important does that mean that you have a responsibility or does it mean that you are a witness and you might have a whole range of reactions to witnessing bullying you might laugh nervously you might seek help from an adult you might talk with your friends about it you might reach out to the child who was bullied you might even talk to the person who was doing the bullying there are a whole lot of things you might do you might shut down because once you were bullied and it brings it all back to you or you might be afraid that if you do speak up then you'll be harmed as well and that is a very understandable reaction we want kids to go to askable adults excellent yes we want them to know who they can turn to for support and who they'll be safe in discussing anything it's important words hurt don't they yes you talk in the guide about identify support get to know the policies I think this is probably for older the parents and the teachers and bullying dynamics within a group that's interesting and unsupportive adults speaking of askable adults so when you're bullied no more you really want to look at your school situation or your community environment or your church group or whatever it is and you want to understand if there's been a recent incident and so what are the dynamics are their kids in the room who were bullied are their kids in the room who were witnesses you don't just want to launch the discussion and not really tend to those people in the room you want to talk with them before the discussion ensues and see what kinds of support they need and make sure that they can go to talk to somebody during the discussion after the discussion and that they have what they need for the discussion to proceed my last question and I want to tell you I read this whole guide and it is excellent you really you really do when you look to decide whether you want to do this musical or not remember you've got this guide and it's just perfect you mentioned which I've heard you mentioned many times safe space yes yes everyone needs a safe space to do this kind of talking and so you want to talk with the students first about what are we going to need to make a safe space for us to have this conversation and get the kids involved in talking about what they need that we let each other finish sentences that we listen that we care and give support if someone's been hurt we have to make it safe and then who could we turn to right who in the school is here today that if we needed to follow up with someone about something that came up is the school counselor here is the principal a safe person to talk to parents and uncles cousins it's a great world for us to get support from it's great that you bring the kids into that discussion I remember going to a conference one time and it was a very difficult topic and as adults we were asked to present those words on the paper you know respect and let people talk and finish and I thought that was pretty good you kind of bought into the conference and so the kids would buy and say you need to know I'm on the board of directors of prevent child abuse Vermont for several years now and love every minute of it thank you Linda appreciate it so Elaine it seems to be a perfect middle school play maybe even like a summer camp play we were we had a guest on recently that runs a summer camp up in the islands and they do plays and musicals and stuff like that but you said about high schools and community theaters should also consider doing this play what do you think specifically about those venues that would really help to reinforce the message or what not high schools and community theaters are perfect for this play and that's why I said this is such a unique unusual play because it's the depth of production that determines the age and high schools can put this on for their classmates but also for their parents and younger siblings and their relatives and their older relatives they're putting on a production they put on the Wizard of Oz they put on Charlie Brown they put on the Lion King this is the same kind of thing but this show has a real message and everyone will feel a part of it because who has not been bullied who has not been involved in a bullying situation in their life probably nobody so when the high school does it instead of you're always noticing how kids are picking on other kids so here they're doing something that's almost like a service it's they're performing a show that's wonderful to do because the songs are empowering they're not they're not childish in any way I mean they fit every age and the people who come to see it are really going to be interested because it's going to affect everyone it's not like the younger kids are going to see sitting like this or the parents are going to be looking at their watch that's not going to happen because it it just it's everybody interested community theaters what is a community theater it's a theater for the community and today unfortunately I think we talked before about this is that families are dissected families are not together anymore they don't eat together they eat on a tray up in their room watching a video game if there's one parent that parent has so much to do that you know they're sitting with their kids and doing stuff it's just not an option and if there are two parents they probably each have a job they're exhausted they're coming home they have things to do a community theater should be responsible to even do this show it should be almost like an absolute that every community theater in the United States should do this show because it would bring a family together they could come on a Saturday they could come on a Sunday they could see the show and it would involve the entire community you know what I thought which was really exciting is that you encourage the young people to use their imagination with regard to the characters and the costumes yes and that I just think is we'll just get them bought into the play and have a little bit of their creativity right out there for people to see could you talk a little bit more about that the characters if you look at the logo are animals they're young kind of Disney like animals but they don't have to be animals they can be colors they can be shapes they can be out of the imagination of the boys and girls who are doing it they can be you know video game characters they can be absolutely anything that you want them to be and you know we suggest that you can keep the names which makes it even more interesting to create a character because the names are used within the show but you don't have to have animals you can do which is great you can do absolutely anything and the other thing is about the show that's great is it can be done in a boy's school it can be done in a girl's school it can be co-ed it doesn't matter because the gender doesn't matter bullying is bullying bullying is bullying that's pretty cool it's like that interchangeable and I also heard that it can be edited to fit several different time frames it's not you know specific to one particular time frame how did you accomplish that well it's interesting if you license a show generally you have to stick to it word by word and this is a flexible show so with 18 songs and 9 characters the show runs under an hour and if it's presented during school that's perfect because then the school could come and the classes aren't interrupted but if you're going to do this as your major production where people are going to see it you know later in the evening or at a matinee you can add a chorus you can add a dance group you can take most of the bullies most of the characters and the targets and you can divide those parts if you want more parts you can divide their parts in two so you take the show from being under an hour 45 minutes 50 minutes to being maybe an hour and 20 minutes and it's all about the depth of the production it's great that you allow them to have that flexibility because I think once the kids get into it lots of ideas will come from them and then of course in the elementary school where they have the Friday they announce things and stuff all the kids are excited because they're going to be up there but it's only going to take three to five minutes some of the schools have already like this year have already picked what they're going to do you've sort of got a solution to that if they've already picked the show what's your solution for them I think everyone is aware that bullying is rampant in many many of the schools and bully no more is a wonderful show to do production but as you said many schools may have already picked their 2019 show you cannot shelve the bullying problem and this is a wonderful impact to make changes so what you can do is you do it as a second musical maybe not as elaborate but one that can be done within the school time and you get nine kids they could be part of the choral group or they could be a club really important because this is one of the only if the only full-length published musicals about bullying that exists that's amazing I think we'll get a lot of attention in this state because it's here it's here and I think everyone acknowledges that it's here and as you said it's getting worse because of cyberbullying it's not going to get any better well it's getting easier and it's not just for kids right I mean you see the things that people say to each other I hope to God no one would say a lot of the things that they say on Facebook or Twitter or wherever but it's because those inhibitions aren't there because you don't have that face-to-face with the person you can look at it it's bother behind a computer screen and I think that you know removes inhibitions that people would normally have in a face-to-face interaction definitely it's a big change to what bullying was 25 years ago and what it is now we've talked about this a little bit but do you have any suggestions for schools that can implement or any suggestions that schools can implement when they're putting on these types of productions and make it more creative or more accessible yes I think that when they're going to do bullying no more in the classrooms they should teach some of the songs the choruses of some of the more popular songs or the songs like hold on to hope or you know stand strong they should teach some of those songs so that when the students come in they're more involved they're emotionally involved they're socially involved because they're going to be part of this they're going to belong to this show everybody likes to oh I know her I know him everybody wants to be included and that's the whole thing about bullying everybody and I think this is a great thing and as Linda suggested if you get the teacher's guide that also becomes a lesson for the kids that the teachers work with and then if they know some of the songs and they can sing them they'll go out and they're just going to they're going to love it you know when I first did the show my grandson Jack was probably around seven and when he came out he said oh Nana he said I just love this show I loved bully no more but there was one thing that I really don't like about it and I said what was it that you didn't like about it he said I can't get the songs out of my head and that was the greatest compliment that's great exactly I think you know just because we've kind of talked about some of this stuff but you know we talked about social media and how the face of bullying is changing in you know my first century I think that it's it's not necessarily the platforms it's not Facebook is inherently you know is inherently encouraging bullying or Twitter is inherently encouraging bullying but I think that it reveals more of what's already under the surface right you can see incredible good on social media and you can see incredible you know I wouldn't say hate but you know there's insensitivity and you know I think just puts on display what's already under the surface so what do you think about using platforms that are out there to to get these types of messages to get positive messages out there like say like a school live streamed a play for sure or maybe there was a group of schools together one school couldn't put it on but maybe you know a group of schools could put on a play and live stream it out to everyone in those communities well they did that when the show first opened it was done by a theater group in New York City and they wrote it up on Broadway World I think it was it says bully no more US opening so they interviewed the woman who directed the show and she said once I read about this show there was no question I was going to do it so this interview was produced by Tams and it's actually on our own website because we ask people to go to if they want to read about the show and they want to license the show we ask them to go to it's tamswitmark.com forward slash shows forward slash bully dash no dash more they'll have that on the screen you'll be able to go there but we also have another website and there's a lot of interviews on that and that's what we'll do if the schools are interested as soon as we get a school that does the show we will always ask them put it on put it on the media put it on social media so that the goal we want to get bully no more to go viral that's what we have to do so that places out in Minnesota know about it because everybody has a problem and here we have not a solution but an impact we have something that can help and we just make a marriage start a conversation if nothing else we've run out of time and I'm sorry for that because there's a lot more to talk about Elaine thank you very much for coming thank you Pat thank you Elaine told me that if you're willing to donate for this show to contribute that they're going to take that funding and put it aside for schools who may not be able to afford the royalties may have already used up their show budget for the year which would be a great thing for the schools who are dealing with bullying and we could help them out a bit we also have a list of endorsements at the end of the show a lot of people here in Vermont who names you know and others from outside the state we really thank you and spread the word we'll see you next week and in the meantime keep listening beyond the sound bites bully no more bully no more we all trash talk starts everyone suffers we're insecure but if we got each other's back you can be sure not a single soul gonna mess with a bond can't touch that break that we're way too strong we see that bullying's all around it makes life feel unfair it's mean that we have to hold our ground cause above it our power's there tell your family and your