 Now is now that you've got a mid-century there. This place was 1958. And where are you? Jupiter Island, Florida. Wow, you live in Florida now? It's just, you know, in the in the winter, in the winter. And the winter and then where are you in the summer? Upstate. Upstate. No, no more West Coast or I mean, it's interesting with you because I've followed your real estate portfolio over the years. I think you had a place in Montana, right? Yeah. And then were you in Walnut Creek for years? Right, the original chop house was in Walnut Creek. That's correct. And now all of that's gone and you're on the East Coast or Florida and New York. Yeah, my wife's family is from Upstate and so that's kind of where we ended up. Man, how do you like it? It's wonderful. And who's the architect on your house? Oh, man, a couple different guys actually, it was a while before me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, here we are. This is a long time coming and I want to thank Mr. Bill Burr for somehow putting together, but this is Jason Newsted here on Let There Be Talk Today. Awesome. How are you, buddy? Good. I just, I'm really intrigued of where you're going to take me and what you're going to remind me of, man, because I've had some couple of people come to me in the last couple of days. I told them I was going to come and do this and I was jamming with my voice today, you know, and the one guy, a couple of the guys had played in Jet Boy back in the day. And so there was some affiliation with you with them. Somehow or a couple of guys used to play in a band or something. And so I'm just trying, I was getting some history on the stuff so I could see where I was. But then you told me in a recent email or text that you were there the night I joined Metallica. Yeah, let me know. You were one of the nights. Yeah, let me ask you if you remember this. So this is how I remember it. So I guess you go to Tommy's joint. They say you're in the band and then about a couple hours later, I happened to be at this fundraiser that faith no more was playing at Wolfgangs. Do you remember this? Holy crap. Wow. Now I'm trying to remember exactly how it went, but they played a fundraiser and Metallica walks in some of the guys and you're standing next to me and I said, Hey, what's going on? And you said, I think I'm the new bass player for Metallica. Wow. And I said, is that right? And that's I remember now. Wow. Years ago. I remember the faith no more thing I'm in the Wolfgangs to remember those couple of nights as we were doing the rehearsals and kind of getting the what do you call it? The okay from the elders. Yeah, Lars's dad was there and both Burton's were alive then and Torbin. Oh, yeah. And so we played and they knew that I'd already been chosen, you know, so it was right amongst those 30 or 40 hours and it was such a surreal spitting blurry. Oh my God type of thing. So you remember a little better than me, but that's crazy the timing and the whole thing like that. That's amazing to me. That's that we have that deeper roots is crazy. It's pretty wild too because it was kind of a forest gump moment for me, you know, just kind of like, oh wow, I was there and then and then after the years go by over years and years, you start to think like, was I there? Was I but I remember it, man, because I just remember you were standing next to me and I was like, oh man, that's pretty wild. And then I just walked away and I talked to my buddy. I go, Jason says he's a Metallica now because this is pre Internet or anything. Nobody what was going on. Nobody even knew who they were rehearsing with or trying out. No. Wow. Yep, I remember it because faith no more was some of the first people that I really got in with the Martin family, Jim and his brother Lawrence and the whole family because they were all their folks are still alive and everything then too. So they embraced me right away. That was actually the first group that did embrace me were Cliff's closest friends. So that was really important, very important to be vital actually at the time. It was funny because at the time my band was rehearsing at Hun Sound and you guys kind of moved your stuff in there to rehearse, but then you went on tour and you were never around again. So we had our we had the studio to ourselves the whole time because you guys were gone all the time. Wow. I remember that too. That was the earliest. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Wow, she's freaking away some layers here. Holy crap. Absolutely. It's a good place to launch from. Yeah, it is. It is. It's it's it's funny because I've been around the Metallica camp for I don't know. What are we on for 42 years now? So I would say probably 41 years and I used to book the stone had flotsam at the stone and I was the talent booker there when I was a kid. Wow. It's awesome. Yeah, it's crazy old day. I love it. I love it. I love it. Fantastic. And we're still alive. Oh, I can't believe that part. I will tell you this is we can jump all around but there's just one great story. I want to include my mom and because she was a big Metallica fan and which is crazy. She wasn't like some trash woman. Like, yeah, I go metal. She just liked all different types of music and during the black album I you had hooked me up quite a bit. Actually, your tag. What was his name? Adam or something? Well, Aiden Aiden initial guy and then Zach, but Aiden was very first. Yeah, Aiden and now he's with with Def Leppard but then and and and he hooked my mom up with snake pit tickets in Albuquerque, New Mexico. My mom was like, I'm inside the stage. It's Chris. Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, I could relate. My dad did that too. And my dad was this kind of cat that would wear real bright colored sweaters to the show and he'd bring his friends from car equipment company and like look at my boy, you know, that type of trip and just stand in the in the snake pit with two sets of earplugs just slammed into his ears. This explosion is going up and he'd elbow his friends when it was time to watch out for concussion bomb. He knew what was coming, you know, so I can relate big time and I remember his face on you. So great. It's so great. I think my mom brought someone from work. You know, there you go. There you have it. There you have you want to see you want to see something you ain't seen before. Come on. Yeah. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Great. Great. So, I mean, you know, most people that are any kind of Metallica fans, they know the history. They know what went down. They know how you joined. They know how you quit and all of that, but I just thought it would be cool to really talk about some of my memories and ask you about them specifically some of the key shows that really blew my mind. Of course, we know you join you do the country club first kind of live gig and then you're off and running and boom. You're in fucking Metallica pretty wild, you know, we know about the years hazing and the craziness and the insanity of that and most people that listen to this show know that, of course, I love Master of Puppets. I know it's a masterpiece. It's the obvious masterpiece, but to me, I think the greatest record ever made for metal would be justice for all. And yeah, I think I think the reason I love it so much is there was a big core of thrash metal in the Bay Area with Testament death angel, Exodus Metallica forbidden possessed, but to get into when justice drops, it's so fucking different than anything ever made. I wanted to talk to you about that. Of course, we don't need to talk about the base tone. It's not there. There's no base, but I do want to talk about once you're in, you do the Aussie tour, the garage days, and then you guys buckle down and start working on justice. Were you blown away about what was happening with the songwriting and the the arrangements and how how much depth was in this material compared to masters? So since I wasn't involved in recording master, I certainly spent plenty of time learning the songs, but the answers to the quiz were already there, right? So I just had to memorize things. And I definitely learned most Metallica songs long before I ever met them as people. But I didn't know how their process of recording would go. I only knew how my process of recording would go and had gone with lots of majestic and the and justice for all style, tempos, changes, complexities, all those things, not too far from flux. And man, you know, I mean, it basically was in stride for me when it comes down to it, that quickness and the state start and stop and double, you know, as the living section doing that thing, that was that's really kind of I was already there. And you know, it's pretty amazing what has taken place with this particular record and justice for all. It's sold so much to begin with, you know, like right out of the gate was just amazing because the anticipation was so great. So that was fantastic. That was already in our favor very much. And those guys had already done so much hard work around the world, at least about 22 or 24 countries that they really had worked hard in to get a following a lot of hard work. And so that was already done. That wasn't there for any of that. So when I stepped in, we were prepared to they were prepared to launch. I came in as a new heart lungs and so forth and let it rip, you know. So the recording process and all that was no different than anything I had ever done in Flotsam a couple days worth. I did my tracks. I'm done. See you later. Load my own gear into my truck and back out again. We got you know, same shit. I record the other albums with same stuff. I played on justice was no different, no different processor that the frequencies are coming in weird or anything like that. Um. That was all in stride for me. And now that the time it's past and we still even talk about it in this way. And the point that you're making exactly if it would have been like the other those other pioneers and second stage of pioneers that you mentioned. If it was the same mix and the same thing, the same approach, you know, what then? There was never any big base on Metallica's albums until the black album. There was audible base of from the bell tolls. So low is obviously called Cattouli Orion. These things were up there where there was lead base, but as far as the body and the depth and the girth of the base frequencies, they didn't exist in metallic albums other than the bass drum until the black album. You know, there were actually garage days re revisited. There was some frobbing bass and that's kind of what I was going on. Like that's what we recorded. So that's what this is going to be. I can hand it over to these guys to mix it. I don't have to be there, you know, but the other I'm in all the flots and recordings of all the time, of course, I was at the helm and I got in this guy's I'd step back find my role on that thing. But if I knew that I should have hung around and played part of that role too and did my own mixing and shit that I would have, but it was their their trip, you know. I was still kind of trying to find my place. The incredible thing now. Thirty, what are we 35 or 36 years since I just brought the best garage duo ever, you know, like white stripes can barely tie these guys shoes. No disrespect to white stripes or black keys or do it. You know, who's that bus? So what is that duo jets? Those guys early, early on just to peace. This is what always happened in Metallica. There's two people. They go into a room usually as small as possible like a fucking cage, right? And there's still stacks of marshals in that cage, even though it literally is 70 or 80 square feet. I mean, and a drum set and a couple of marshals stacks and the old task cam cassette recorder eight track. Yes, what they were speaking to master. They were very good at this thing. The demos that they produced just from that little machine were insane. So it was always that sound that was the sound of the band. Look at the original original original photographs where it's just Lars with his jump getting James. They're both hanging on the flying V. It was them. That's always been the sound of the band. Two other guys is over here compliment embellished what you want to call it. You know, so that actually was just the next extension of that those two guys doing that thing. And they had to make sure, you know, they think about the confusion and the holy shit that's going out on their heads. And you know, we're talking about living in a band with full blown alcoholics, man. I mean, you know, there's there's a lot to it. There's a lot to it. But we did good at still making our way and working hard. But my take on it now as a fan first then in the band now out again and trying to get the fans perspective step out of myself. Best garage duo ever best garage duo album ever. I agree. I agree and I am never a fan of any of my favorite records going way back way. I'm never a fan of changing the history of something by let's add bass into it now. And you know, once they release the box that people are like, where's the bass? It's like quit, you know, quit talking about that and just take in the magnitude of this goddamn record. They lost a member. They get a new member. They go out and tour with Ozzie. They come in and they record one of the most insane metal records ever made and still to this day that's it just shadows how great the songs and how insane this thing was for these guys, the direction they took and the risk they took instead of just being standard thrash metal band. Here's something for you, you know, there are so many elements involved and some of them I talked about but not to you. So if you think about what was going on right then, okay, just exactly those months. We've been asked to join Scorpions and Van Halen for the Monsters of Rock and the first time to go around America as that in 30 cities or something, not just one in New York and one in Los Angeles, but actually taking the whole that giant thing around. Second on the bill after Kingdom come before docking and see we were all 25, you know, what goes on then when the literally the world is oyster literally and it's on the trajectories like that already and everybody knows and the people that were playing with Van Halen Scorpions guys showing mad respect. They see they see other people react to us. You know what I mean and there's they know enough man they've been around enough what it takes to make that happen, you know, so they show respect to us in that way. You just think about what would take place in that year. What was happening right then? Who was doing what with Doc Scorpions Van Halen piles of the product everywhere. I mean crazy the whole time and trying to just do shows on the weekend have all those days off in the middle. The beast would travel around and hit that be set up on that Friday. Have a second set up and home for the guys to take that next to the next city while finished from that one and they revolve like that because it's sitting up a freaking city, you know. So amongst all of that thing that we're all new to it at this level certainly and then the level we haven't reached yet Scorpions Van Halen were allowing us to hang with them. I love a lie not like this no more. You know, yeah, all of that all of that at once and the exhaustion always having to be on on on on on all the time. The travel and the vibe and you don't and you didn't need any stimulants but they were all over the place. Oh yeah, adrenaline and natural sleep deprivation. Everything would already had just so wired and freaking anyway is vibrating and shit. It just was so start there. Start there as the playing field that you're on. Yeah, and then those guys bopping back and forth trying to go to Bearsville in New York in between of a planet Albuquerque or Kansas City or whatever and they still got to make it back for the shows and go up and mix out of their heads. Think about the things I've just talked about that all was very present. You know all the time was perpetual. Okay, so within all of that they're trying to keep their heads on their journey express themselves. All this anger grief and all that shit don't know where to put it. So I'll put it here and I'll put it here. Fuck you know. Yeah, a lot lot going on bro a lot. What's great about you is you got to work with Fleming and you got to work with Bob Rock back to back so you can really because I talked to Kirk about it a couple years ago and I thought have you ever thought of working with Fleming again? Why you know with the success that was happening of these records. Why did they never ever you know take a trip down that road again but you got to work with both and we know Bob Rock and we know how different it was just hours and hours and years you know of making the black album but what else do you think is different besides Fleming and Bob Rock the studio the money the time what do you think? Some of the same things that I spoke about a moment ago when Fleming was there to make the other records in Denmark. Yeah, it's time for to make a record in America. Trying to get that next leg up maybe hit that next plateau and powers that be that came into play management and companies and certainly more dough and opportunities and things like this and people will only show interest in you if I know they can make some money off you so there's a lot of that happening. Damn that's real right there what you just said. Yeah, so so between that you know like that they would have maybe wanted to have Fleming come over but but there's somebody over here going do you guys want to make you right on the fucking precipice do you want to make that jump over the chasm and land on the other side to that tall or mountain in order to make that jump you're probably going to get Scott and they probably need to do this and this and it actually do from what I remember what little I remember a little time that I spent there really like what I talked about before I had my old Ford Ranger truck still I didn't have I didn't even spend money on a new car yet because we weren't ever freaking home. I didn't drive anywhere. I didn't need anything people driving us everywhere. I still have no truck that I brought from Flotson days my same truck you know and I drove down the San Francisco and have my amp in the back and I loaded in loaded out it was just the same and all I remember is the confusion of the producers who the fuck is going to do this. They bring in Mike clink and they bring in this cat well he did so and so and he did a you know he has that fancy award and this one did that and I'm like what about somebody who knows what the fuck we are. How about that type of thing can we just not because he has those accolades and then that that was successful with his stamp on it because that's not what's going to happen. He ain't going to come in and go here's how I do shit. Now you know you got somebody that understands that the wheel. These are the guys that will be calling the shots you'll be making percentage. Okay remember that so be paying attention. We'll learn from you you know from us if it works out right. I don't remember that working in that albums reporting sessions a little bit that I had. I remember that flourishing with Barbara. Okay like a giant blossoms everywhere but I do not remember that I remember and just for all being chaotic being confused. I recorded my stuff with Toby right who is at that time the assistant engineer went on to make you know that was a change and all kind of cool shit one of the very good solid fucking guy when the first guys that really showed me how to do stuff on a desk and I'll be. But there wasn't the producer in the room or Fleming in the room with me or any of that you know that was kind of on the fringes to me. Wow well it also is the at this time where I I call the mighty headfield headfield changes from a kind of a if you I've seen them from you know the first year all the way out but you know in those early stone days and lightning days and masters or he's like come on motherfucker yeah and then he turns into this god damn kind of like Ted Nugent meets Danzig you know it's just this fucking you know it's like it's the most insane frontman I've ever seen people ask me who's the most insane you know and I'm like well I saw Bond Scott but I you know I got to tell you it's got to be headfield during the justice through the black album tour there's nothing more insane than that you can watch it over and over on YouTube so that had to be interesting to see that guy change like that that transformation but I hadn't heard that combination yet so that's a great visual and it's pretty accurate when you think about it even just visually it's pretty accurate. Yeah, yep. I don't know the persona of the character of the character of the shit. Maybe with some rock and also well and I was thinking a little bit of cowardly lion you know just throw a little bit in the scout that little thing is just that because there's always a little bit of tongue-in-cheek. He has such a great sense of humor. There's always that thing you know that always always he still does but you know Yeagermeister, bro. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. But also it had to be some kind of other than liquid courage it had to be some kind of also pissed off at the world, you know. Yeah, I'm kind of messing but that all was true. It was all kind of I don't think that James will probably ever recover from the cliff thing because of his abandonment and separation things that happened to him and his family and stuff were so far beyond his control. This is kind of shit that cuts so deep you know no matter how many people you talk through with it's still going to be there. So within all of that he had to find a way to compartmentalize you know. There's a thing I've learned over these past years with respect that I've always had great respect for the guy but even more so now there was never a time I didn't respect him. His ability to harness and or process and field field everything that comes at him what he's able to do with the crowd. There's only a handful you named a couple of them in our conversation already where he could have 50 60 what's whatever the number is 60 70,000 people right here the whole time as long as he wants to and then push him away and bring him back. I mean incredible shit. So it's still just flesh and bone. Okay, it's still just a person and a troubled person that's had these all these things that still rise above and rise above and get torched and break my arm and rise above break my arm again and I said but you know keep on coming what you're made of dude come on how many times you get back up a million times but this is fucking real. This is real how many times you get back and still leads us you know and needs those guys today and all this time I'm going to ever 40 whatever years later right. There's certain toughness toughness handling adversity that comes from handling adversity. You know and he's got that so he has the capacity to anything you want to be like that and to have everybody right where he wants him but his real person is still this cat that just wants to chill you know just like you and me love love our dog love our family all cool like that kind of thing love the outdoors you know thankful for things grateful for things but you still got to play that persona people expecting us from you. This is a big load for human being for one person you know so I realize that as I was with them a little bit it would always you know Kirk and Lars wouldn't want to dress your room and James and I were in the other that's how it always was and my my mom embraced him my family embraced him it was all that thing he was that he was my brother like that so I always tried to be there for him like that you know I'm saying but so to see him I didn't know him yet he didn't let me know him yet in those years I could only be support on the stage of support when he asked me to be that you know that's it so seeing the transformation I still was I always will be that person looking to listen to master public right the lightning is my first in my favorite album and all these things having the opportunity to stand there with them and hold my ground for 15 years no matter what they threw at me okay so I'm hoping to earn the mutual respect in this person I look up to like that so there's a big like a big connection that I don't think can be broken no matter what happens otherwise politically or anything a record sales or anything that he and I have because of the time we spent together when no one else is around okay for me it's still that so I saw him transform from the thing that you talked about to the next thing to the next to the next and see what he is now I was never in a band with any of those guys but especially James when he wasn't pretty much plowed you know and so I don't know him as a sober person yeah yeah it's it is wild to to think that whenever it comes to Jason and Metallica it's always talked about mostly just the hazing and the insanity but really there's just years of deep love in there or else you wouldn't even have lasted two or three years you know people in none of us sort of right right they really ignore it and it's funny just to hear you say right there James and I shared the dressing room and and and most people's minds they'd be like oh how the fuck did that go down you know but I think that I think deep inside he he I wonder at night if he goes like especially when I was at the 30 year anniversary and you walked on stage and played again this got to be something in his mind of like fuck this has got some because we're talking about one of the greatest bass players of all time Cliff Burton okay and then for you to step in if you you know look at those era there is goddamn chemistry there and let it be the anger or whatever it is there's chemistry and I know that he looks at that probably and goes fuck that should as it should as fire the background vocals the playing the style the look the the energy of the lead singing everything so I know there's no way he doesn't go like man I was fucking brutal you know and I and I get it I I always say he's on like Mach three of his demons right now you know wow wow okay and I was just going to use the same terminology so Mach one what I call with Cliff right that was its own chemistry that can never be topped everybody knows that nobody's ever argued that not me for sure and then our chemistry that we had is Mach two it was its own thing with its own flavor when it came to the live show man that was me man okay here I am and follow that motherfucker you know like that's right the whole time every time and we know that we had that too and now the 20 years they've had with Robert now this is this chemistry and it's fucking firing too so the key elements are still there right and you're bringing people have that much more talent it's just amazing each one I don't think anyone is really like better than the other if you compare all the check all the box and stuff here's the pioneers they set the standard here's the other thing we kept up with it and took it to the people like never before I mean would take a lot of years for them to play in order for Robert Neves when he shows his side and have with them he's been in 20 years I've been in 15 but I still got to show you just we went we played a lot yeah you did you know okay so that there's just there's something to that too actually that might be the bottom line I mean nothing can replace the hours that you put together to create the chemistry you're speaking of to mix that shut up get mixed up and make it stronger and stronger you know it wasn't like we hit some kind of weak spot is going fucking rare and I you know it was always like it was always standard standard standard that whole time there was never a weak spot when I was there as far as I'm concerned now never never never I did see recently that I think it was Kirk or maybe Lars was talking about when they play the justice stuff now they've kind of straighten it out and dump some stuff so they don't have to be so heady in it be more of just rocking it when you guys were doing the justice album of course one of the greatest tours of all time for Metallica I saw it you know five times one be in the shoreline conquered and then to cow Powell as you know just all of the great ones indoors outdoors everything but it was interesting when you first went out and you were playing the whole record and and I was fucking so into that but what was that like to just remember all the changes in everything you're hitting some serious stuff here this is you know a while ago you're talking about the hazing and all this thing right so there's an exclusive clubs in the world and we know some of them in America maybe a couple that we've traveled to and other countries and stuff but certain ones and elite athletes and these doctors and all you do this brain surgery there's different elite clubs of things okay in the metal world this is the most elite club right so in order to be in that club you have to have these prerequisites and all that I've lodged shit yeah and then you have to see if you can stay in the club right there's one thing to get in can you stay in yeah so in order to know the other guys are already in the club and make up the club and decided the rules of the club they have to know they can count on you as one of the club right so if you were in that position what would you do you grill the fuck out of me because they got it I have to speak for them when they are not there I have to represent that whole fucking entity when I'm standing on my own now you just want to let any fucker come in and do that really really come on I for compared to what I really got how awesome the ride was that is like mud it's mud on my shoe dude I don't know if there's it was actually I wouldn't have the world citizen whatever you call that thing if if they if they didn't say okay dude we're going to give you this and if you could take it you're with us I did here we are you know said fuck I wouldn't change any of it for anything ever absolutely absolutely now look at him now Dean if things didn't happen the way they happen can we guarantee that they would be there if Jane James had one three have a buy wouldn't what he wouldn't have went and it wouldn't all change you got himself together to be stronger than ever and his vocal and his health if I wouldn't have done that would that have happened would he have drank himself would he have drank himself to another thing a thing a thing what would happen what we kept running away from you know how do we know we don't fucking know what we know now as they're dominating again the wreck was number one in 25 countries two weeks ago the fuck or the two years later yeah yeah yeah there is an interesting thing that I always say about Metallica and it's one of the most insane things I think I've ever seen with fans quote unquote I would say fans is no matter what they seem to do the shitty people come out and complain it does not matter what the fuck they do cliff's gone Metallica's done you know they do the nothing else matters Metallica's done they cut their hair on the load reload records Metallica's done you know it's just unbelievable the snare tone the sane anger record that's some kind of monster movie all of it is the most insane thing I've ever seen in a band ever and yet they're bigger than ever right now it's awesome I got I got two things to say about that okay so first one is next time you make your album okay people are saying this shit next time you make your album make sure to send me a copy I'll let you know what I think okay and I wanted to oh I wanted to remember what the other thing was but I got so excited about that I forgot that's awesome I got it so some of my key memories of Jason or Metallica I have so many great fucking memories with you in the band it's it's mind-boggling how much I love this era next one for me would be and I interviewed Tom Gaffey and I'm a huge Phoenix theater guy the warm-up shows for the black tour I was there both nights I have the t-shirt upstairs I was going to wear it during the interview but I was like fuck it but you wore it at the Russia concert which is amazing to see rehearsals at the Phoenix theater let's talk about why that happened and and let's talk about those two nights if you remember because I remember both that was front row balcony and I Tom Gaffey runs and owns the place and the Phoenix theater is one of the most epic venues in all of America because of what they do letting kids bands play their skateboarding in there all the punk early shit divo I'm a shooting my name is mud there it has a history that is unbelievable so run me through that do you remember those nights I do so it's August I thought it was three nights I was August 1st 2nd 3rd maybe it was just a couple of nights like yeah yeah and quick question do you remember why you did it because Tom had said you guys are getting ready to go and he just didn't feel like you had this black album shit together yet it's a fairly common thing for bands at that level to go and play to the converted for a couple to make sure that everything's square so you know make your mistakes in front of the people that don't mind seeing that kind of thing there were different times through my career with them anyway that we would I think it was McNichol arena and Denver or something to rent out for the week to get everything together and then go to a club and play a little bit to get our things that get all our eyes out in front of people okay get all the nurse and all that stuff in front of people that are already excited about being there I think that happens every single tour so we would do something like that a couple of clubs or something to get to get the rust busted off and it can there's a gazillion people that can sit on their couch you go right you put them up in front of people don't fuck it down you know this it's just not so you have to it's not for everyone you know you get that many people has blood nurse things been naked and whatever like well I got this you know that's it's there's something to it well I will tell you this man those shows and whenever I see Metallica in a small venue it has got to be some of the most intense shit you've ever seen you know over the years I've seen a ton of the secret shows you know including some kind of monster when they took a break and Bob Rock played you know down there on Polk Street crazy yeah yeah sorry yeah and it's so fucking crazy to to see the band in a club type of thing you know so after those two shows there you are often running for the black album and of course your entire life is going to change and you're not going to be home for a long time now I just did a two month tour and we played every night for 32 of the 33 dates and I was lapping in the tour bus going this is just the first two months of the black album tour now you have three more years motherfucker so tell me about when you hit the wall on that tour of like holy shit are we ever going home we saw it just grow and grow and grow we saw the crew grow we saw the checks grow we saw the crowd grow we saw the sales grow all that the demand and within it we were treated better and better the whole time there was more people there to make sure you that everything you needed to this four people that are the face and the power and the music that are bringing in all these millions of dollars and there's hundreds of people working on the crew and all that thing that need to get a check so they got to make sure that all four of us are firing so they're there to have Kirk's got his nutrition thing quiet I got mine my way or says this is way whatever like you know what I mean everybody's got their own workout bars is running Kirk is doing his yoga I'm riding my bike you know I took my bike down to her a bunch of times just that's that's what I did so we all did our own thing to be what the force needed to be on the time came each night that in itself that attitude individually and collectively knowing that we're not going to ever let each other down kind of talk about a little bit before no people do we count on okay just this guy made of the METTLE metal is he made of it and does he have the right time in order to do all this day after day night after that year after year with us right the crew is the key okay as long as you got people that fucking get it they understand and they truly care alright I don't know how it is now in that organization on the road or otherwise no I kept the distance on purpose okay but in that time we're going through eras now you and I yeah and in that era the family the family cannot kill the family the family that was around on that that black album to it one hundred and five crew guys at that time 11 buses 13 trucks I mean you know the real deal man no there wasn't a weak link as soon as the weak link showed up oh gone man gone fucking sorted out immediately sussed immediately you know that the carpenters wouldn't allow somebody that could speak for them that wasn't say on the right shit and all the way right down the line everybody took that pride everybody carried that pride you know so when you have that as the like logistically the way that they were able to arrange everything for us to be fucking on point the whole time that's why they knew how to do that and make us as strong as possible that's it that's why you could do how many ever I could have going and going by the time we got to that last one you know vector Belgium July 3rd 93 something rather you know I could have kept going bro I mean I was I was glad that we're going home for a second I really did I really wanted to go count some money man okay fucking hey I did okay I think we all did nothing you wouldn't god damn it you know you're number one 30 could you got this and the radios that nothing else matters is blue you know the shit okay great that sounds great where's the fucking dough man right get home and go okay okay right all of that sweating and the sacrifice the sacrifice that is required for that to happen girlfriend wife comes second mom grandma dog everything of a normal life domestication whatever second third second mother all the way down line nothing comes before it so you just just just think about that person you don't get to go to your nieces thing or the brothers thing or grandma's thing or the weather it's good better otherwise you don't get to go you know yeah that's that's some shit I'm not complaining I'm just saying that's facts yeah well yeah and it's also what people don't understand is the heaviness of once you step off of that thing and everybody doing everything for you and there you are in Walnut Creek California in your house and you're like the adrenaline is gone now you're fucked because you're sitting there going like god damn I'm home now for a couple weeks I'm bored I need that fucking blast that's a crazy thing that people don't understand that so the there's before there was PTSD actually or anything that we would been aware of that or that term maybe existed we call PTD post tour depression and so it's it's a real thing that's existed as long as there's been this the way that they pushed Elvis the way they pushed Jerry Lee or whatever it's the same and also within I've talked about this before too but not with you extreme sports and these type of things so 20 or maybe 25 years worth of you know we used to do a 360 on our skate and thought we were badass and now they do a 3600 they're with the fuck you know it's like this is what is now okay that the guys jumping off the motorcycle upside down looking backwards doing all this stuff again adrenaline junkie adrenaline junkies and adrenaline junkie jumps from the plane and that shit right this is real this is not just a loosely used term that became comfortable in our culture or whatever this is a real fucking thing right so when you do get that dose it's not just about I mean the reason we're doing this reason you comedy the reason you do what you do with the things and music or any of us to our bill or anybody is that you know we want to show up we spent a bunch of fucking time learning this crap and now we're going to go show off and we want some recognition for it you know that that gets to really start taking it from that's the beginning of the juice that's the beginning of the juice you worked up that hard to get show somebody and then there's people there so it kicks it up to about there right you're going to show over oh my God in a sweat and holy fuck right trying to get to that place because you want to show that you are that good you wanted to clap afterwards fuck that was worth it you know but then when there's 1030 4070 50 how many people in Russia and they are all pushing their juice the same energy same voice buster the same frequencies which is the most important thing the same frequencies at four people flesh and you still right it's like it's like giant fucking the what do you call on the on the roof there the solar panels okay you're still can all that so can all that shit in but then the solar panels process it and give you this right so you have to process it like that even more so but during that process your adrenal to Terry every other goddamn thing is going fuck right and it gets used to it that's what yours that's what you're talking about okay your body will do anything you ask it to you want to be a junkie it'll do that you want to be a marathon runner it'll do that you want to be on your bike you want to do this a good swimmer it'll do that eventually if you do it if you program it to do that so if you program it to get that fucking dose five times a week for 26 months so well come down from that bro it took me 15 years to come down from 15 years okay you know like you stop smoking 15 years you do the same deal man same fucking run me through that Russia concert because I still think that it's one of the greatest and I and I would say very underrated of the magnitude of this to see first of all where you're playing in Russia to see the amount of people to see the soldiers and then to see those helicopters it looks like a scene from apocalypse now run me through that man how you get to Russia you're ready to do the show and you see the magnitude of the audience and everything what was that like it started brewing I'll go right from the top it started brewing when we were opening for Angus ACPC in the eastern block okay there was still communist countries where many are still communists and others still and there was rumblings about this coup that was happening and because we always had to be careful there was a lot of times when they would bring the schedule to you and you see all the atrohannesburg you don't see all these different stuff oh we're going to play there no you don't get to because the president got to see either assassinated or the political thing or you can't do that because you're not safe they don't have a right power you know there's all that shit happened a lot of times so they start talking about it we already got our shows of the ACPC we don't cancel shows unless God says so two times since I was in band and you know whatever winter or storm or anything that comes out of ACPC we're going to do the show no matter where we are and of course those people are very receptive it's not very very many people have the power logistics crew to be able to go to a place like that you can go to Topeka and ship it go into those places that's something you know so we had our crews and our stuff together and our gear and our trucks and everything already not too far from where they were you know really as the crow flies I guess you can say or something and it came down that they asked the kids that stand stood up to the tanks and stuff oh what do you want and reward for this bravery and I said we want American rock and roll we said Guns and Roses Metallica and ACDC those are the first names that they had mentioned and so Time Walk Time Warner got involved and they said okay well we have Metallica and ACDC right over the border over here and we could get them you know the crew and the thing and they bring their amps and whatever their you know anchors have a trail and shit we'll bring you a thing over there it all comes down Time Warner sends a plane for us right and up at that point we'd had nice craft and everything safe nice craft it took a while to the one so you could actually stand up and then stuff but yeah and we started started to get to the time where there was a little bit nicer but they sent this thing that was that room you got fake behind you that would have put in one of the parts of the plane you know it was like this 777 it's a big thing with couches and all that you know like really dialed out like in the movies like a bar and you know the guy and it was it was ACDC and black bros and Metallica on the same plane and a few other people to get over there and we got to customs and we landed in and Moscow and it wasn't that really as I remember the airport we particularly landed in it wasn't that grand of a thing seemed a little kind of locked in time almost really couple of decades behind and they held us there and it was like there's I don't know how the miscommunication that they didn't realize that the fucking prime minister invited us to come and play you know like you didn't get that memo so they held us for a second really come to find out Chris Robinson was with us right and he had the the tan like what do you call that split leather pants yeah and then with with hot leafs sewn down the side that's right and so so they get hell of suspicious yeah and so they they hold all of us and they take him off to the side of the dogs and all the thing but none of us were dumb enough to bring anything to fucking Russia and what yeah right and not not even him you know not even those guys so we finally got going get to the hotel and there once again we could have been in Albuquerque there was kids lined up they had the Metallica shirts and the album that poster all the things like you would expect he was like any other place we landed except that you know that shirt could be four or six weeks wages for an ACVC t-shirt it could be for the album the that metallic album that's probably two months which is for the copy the copy the cassette for the fake cover on it of that that was probably two weeks which is you know the base but they still had it there for us to sign you know but I didn't know the thing about that until after we got in to the place that that's how it was for them it just normal to me like we landed in any other place so we get into the hotel and it was about I mean I probably 3,000 rooms in this hotel it looked like a giant kind of penitentiary gray I got a gray sky gray building gray food we go into the place and it was four dollars for a room like a junior suite and it was eight dollars for a bottle of wow so metaphorically you know like and so starting figuring out that that's how it was there's not a whole lot of middle class there's this with this you know we've seen that a lot of other places before too but this was something different and raised up in the Midwest you know the time that I did we still did duck and cover when I was a kid and all that so going to Russia and this type of thing it was so not that everybody could they couldn't have been nicer they couldn't have been more respectful they couldn't have been more embracing to us you know it's fucking amazing and then as we drove and did photographs and looked around the town for the you know 12 or 16 hours leading up to go into the show we noticed a lot of poverty and stuff man and it just was really kind of I always I always see this being grateful for everything that we have you know grateful for clean water just really makes you think if there's some things you learn when you're out there no matter how grand the trappings are that you're able to see through that and see that not everybody had as what has it like you and me you know and so that I really learned a lot from that trip on that particular part so we got through all of that and then we went to the gig like any other time okay you your sound check is here and Black Cross sound check is here and Pantera and then ACDC and then so on for like any other fucking day okay so we get there to the grounds and you know and that's not the worst that's ever happened either but it was this kind of weird considering the ball of it all and there's a bunch of people kind of running around knocking into each other and there's soldiers everywhere what ended up being like 11,000 troops right so we go to what is the you know we used to see in the guys with the yellow security football players from the college or the guys you know between the barrier barricade not these guys full red army with the fuzzy shit automatic weapons shit very different so we go that's an awful lot of guys with guns don't you think for this thing I mean you really well what it is is you guys I'm not sure if you know it's a free concert and they went on the national radio at every every whatever they call it province of every country within rush or whatever they call that to say it's free and you come get on a plane and come to get on a train or whatever make your way down here so people made their way by foot by bike by train by boat but whatever the hell they didn't they came all from all countries and that's one of the things to use when you watch the video you'll see all the flags from the different countries flying over in other different provinces and whatever you call that so that in itself we've seen some cool shit we played Donnie in a few times some other really big things but nothing quite like this because of the setting because of the scenario you know so already that was you're on point a little more your heads on a swivel a little more that always has to be but really there and I could talk about the show but you but please get in something where the footage is just fucking unreal man I mean you'd never see anything like that you look at it and it just go like wow it is interesting to because me growing up in the bay area I always say the turning point for Metallica the changing of the guard was the day on the green with the scorpions okay that is the day that everyone in the bay area and the business the music business and even Bill Graham was like wow what the fuck is this man and you think about key Metallica gigs a lot of them were giant a game changers outdoors which is interesting you know the dance green with cliff and then the Russia concert the Dan the green when you finally come back and they come back as headliners now that is a fucking game changer here they are opening and a few years later they're back headlining in their own backyard yeah the October 1291 I think this is speaking of whether last concert that Bill Graham put on actually absolutely and I mean growing up around the day and the greens you know I mean you know exactly everything you know right and a lot of people that you you know that are in our circles that cross each other circles from those places we all have are they all I don't but they all have those stories you have those stories of seeing those days on the days on the green I remember current stories about them when he was young you know big big deal the same as BC and Nugent on the Michigan Jam or whatever it's the same thing for us you know so I remember specifically that show we had been so from the Phoenix Theater from August 1st up to that point with a couple of months to go out around how many countries did for that time that chunk a lot though in that amount of time and we were just in stride just also understand just in stride and I remember I had all finally had my complete arsenal of Alembic bases made in Santa Rosa right right NorCal right okay so they were they were so stoked into that six string bass I remember the neck about that fucking wide you know biggest string like that you know and and just in sabbatur tuned down full full and the whole outdoors the whole bag goes it could just be the whole I was like I was shaking I was shaking every single person's innards management I remember the meat of it and then a couple cats that were bass players also friends up there came and said afterwards dude the bass sound was the sickest thing that I've heard and I just remember feeling it from the stage sound that good and then for them to say it out there that was really a special time so game changers as a collective game changers as individuals because coming back to prove myself to those folks to you and to your you know the circles that you run in that was a big deal for me it was very important to me at that time you start playing the Olympic bases and it is interesting to think about because there's the era of course pedaluma Mesa boogie big big thing with Metallica's crunch Captain Crunch the cool shirts everything boogie was the thing that's a pedaluma California Randall Smith who is the owner and kind of the first boutique amp builder and then here you are with olympics so not only are they a Bay Area band you know people are there from LA fuck you they're from the Bay Area you know that's in the Molly office but they supported all of these Bay Area companies and people band magazine the stone Mesa boogie you go on and on and on let me talk to you about the Olympic bases because at the time it was more of a hippie type of thing of Phil Lash Santana guys everybody it was you know Jerry Garcia played olympic and and all that stuff what made you go for that olympic was it to get a custom five or six string base? In the beginning I think it kind of started out like you're talking about NorCal Pride kind of it really took everybody over there there's something there in Metallica and the Bay Area and the support that was shown and just the actual that we know that's that's the cream of the crop shit right there you know we know that the world knows that so that's the beginning of it the Mesa boogie especially um when I reported the Flotson album state of receiver I borrowed an olympic base from a guy who was the explorer's style like it's called the stiller or something like that Oh like from the who entwist yes yes kind of that type of trip yeah and it just it was just evil and then then you how it blends on that record it's just you know you can hear it and it's just it's very special so it was also out of reach considerably out of reach right so so yeah it's like a coveted thing to afford them then I'm going to have them right and that they were there and they were local so I went up to visit them they're very nice to me so the Wickersham family who ran that you know back then um Ron Wickersham was in with the Grateful Dead guys we got designed their their PAs and the thing and the guitars and all that you know fancy motherboard inside the base and holy crap and then also Stanley Clark um the two of the I guess two of the real albums I had when I owned four albums when I was nine or 10 years old what Jeff Beck would stand the clock on the base and he played Olympic basses so there's all this kind of roots from you know deep down and when they finally showed up and then also when I get to go test them you know I got my pick going everything it goes fuck it gang fuck it gang you know can really make it growl and teeth are sharp I'm like I want that and so they said okay make these picked out all the wood and you know design them and everything solid maple basis okay so that's why they ping like that super hard wood super bright and heavy as fuck so that six string base I'm not sure at least two less Paul's weight you know really serious and that's and that's why the neck that's why one of the reasons for yeah for the neck and that but the olympic thing because once they they were so supportive and then I said build me all these bases and they were psyched because of you know photography so giant I was building all black bases to go along with the black album that we were going to tour with and they were that was probably the biggest exposure they've had in any kind of what are you called not quite mainstream yet but for them mainstream right right yeah and um you never went with boogie had you used boogie calves but you didn't like the boogie had you were sbt all the time and still to now or what's going on with that so when I went to audition and um I used cliffs makes a boogie gear and really with me maybe two speakers working out of six you know so so but uh I I liked it from then I played based a boogie early on and I still have um clip clips main head and stuff like that in my archive thing with you know behind the glass you know that should um have that so that what that yeah so that was the thing that I use way back then and the guys you know grace me with that so um but sbt was always the thing that really was the thing but with the Olympic and the sbt that made that crazy sbrow so I just continue with that and they were very supported back in the day too they really were so many things have changed bro in that much time back then there was proper folks that would come out and look you up and let you test and stop and send the Zach and blow it up and send it back you know pretty much fun yeah but the impact has always been there like that what do you have for um vintage bases like I think you had like what like a like plastic blue or something jazz or what do you have vintage was um the collection is quite extensive now Dean you know so since 80s probably in the 86 so early 87 was the first time that I went shopping with Kirk in some Chicago guitar store and got bits since then so that many years I've been collecting trading and so forth so there's a great deal of vintage vintage instruments there's a uh pretty arsenal of 57 58 59 bases and you know all those kind of things um all the cool stuff like that that that I was very lucky to get very early on I had done most of my purchasing of vintage stuff before 2000 now I just trade yeah yeah I get it yeah but what are your thoughts looking back now on the load and reload era um I've been a lot of people know I'm not a big fan of that era um what are your thoughts on that era do you uh do you dig the tunes in the era or do you feel that it was necessary to change into being into Finn Lizzie and and UFO and AC DC and stuff take take a different direction you know by the time that came around and everybody had gone to count their money and or get married and or you know that the gang mentality can dissipate it of course we found our own corners to go to because we spent so much time doing that so we would all retreat to our corners at that time I just of my own POV detached to answer the question in general as far as the groove and the vibe and the weight of the base and that you know always digging that kind of thing anyway I was fine with any you know the tempos and stuff and the musicality of it I liked for the most part I always like the high energy stuff better I always felt I perform the faster things better and the things you could really sink your teeth into was of course as a fan of that kind of music and several tour and all the stuff I would always lean that way but I did I like the groove and I liked how Bob helped me get certain weight with the bases and and teach me to you know chill the fuck out with the notes man and just you know you lay that concrete down and let if the more concrete you lay down the further the guitars get pushed up front and the more chance you got to be the loudest fuck so it's just like just lay that concrete down kind of doing that more groovy things you know the bands you mentioned those kind of rock bands that always had that little bit of groove to him she does I'll say one thing first of my brothers I have eight year old and five year older brothers right so I heard Hendricks really early and that kind of cool shit early 70s music drilled into me when I was a little kid so that I didn't know it but the reason I was drawn to the base dominant funk music or put in fire Ohio players and all these different things I did realize that when but then why end up being a bass player and then know why there's certain things that were ingrained and me that I want to go with that groove you know but those guys brought all those songs and I tried to adapt to them the best I could I think they're still solid records but I wouldn't probably call them my favorites right it's funny I recently opened up for Metallica now it's been I guess two years now it's it was the 40 40 year anniversary I did stand up comedy and just got the chase center two nights and it was the the scariest thing I've ever done the hardest thing I've ever done and the greatest thing I've ever done and I've done a lot of great shit in my life not like sitting there bragging but I've had some high water marks in my life like opening for Burr at Red Rocks or the LA form that kind of shit but to stand on stage with them and be asked to do it and the the amount of I would say nervousness I had because I didn't want to fuck it up and you know it's comedy it's almost set up to fail opening for Metallica during comedy but the reason it had so much weight with me was the moments of my life we're seeing them on the 30th anniversary at the Fillmore and that was the night that I sat in the corner and realized you know what I love AC DC I love Prince I love Zeppelin I love the dead I love all kinds of music but at that moment in that corner of that room the first night I realized this is our band and this is the greatest band to me of all time as far as not you know I didn't see Zeppelin but I love fucking Zeppelin I love the mystique of it and you know to see these guys that were not good looking did not have radio songs to you know the grass roots bringing of you know of rising up to see that I realized that moment in that room this was the greatest band so what I'm trying to say in a long fucking question is what was that like for you to come back for the 30th not playing for a long time and and what was the vibe like truly it felt like two weeks had went by and my girl and I drove over the bridge and with my buddy and we parked the car to fill more and we walked up the back stairs just like any other fucking time and you know the only difference was everybody screaming at me and I didn't know what to expect I was very excited about it but I was also really trying to keep it low man I wasn't going in any kind of any kind of you know this at all I didn't know what to expect your life was really excited about being a part of it and I had my chops up dude I never let them go down you know and walking with my buddy and my wife there and everybody's just reacting and I saw you know Cliff Cliffstead Ray was there in Torben they're sitting there and a lot of people just from the past and such a warm thing right away and people saw me from the floor and started you know giving me the sign and screaming out my name and stuff and it was just an incredible thing came over me once again the adrenaline starts to flow and by the time I got up there you know I still had the same attitude I still did the same thing the reason I say I felt like two weeks because all the same people around same wardrobe girls the same core crew and that thing so I walk into one of the rooms I make a space for myself I put out my thing I do my stretches I put on my vocal warm-up I I'll just like fucking two weeks ago man get back going and the attitude that always is and no matter Eric and sir I don't give a fuck but you know if I'm playing I don't give a fuck who else is playing you know like I respect Rob Halford and I love King Diamond and all them cats and all that but if I'm good ready for my show and I'm going on that stage no matter who was there before or after it doesn't matter especially when I'm playing with those guys it's the way it goes man and that's how I felt I felt all that power come back over me like that it was unreal I stayed in the corner and I got to tell you before I interviewed you today I rewatch the rock and roll Hall of Fame and I got choked up and that second when you walked on stage and just now right now hit me some goose bumps I get choked up because I'm like there it is man that's it that's the thing right there and the audience immediately goes crazy and it's it you cannot fucking deny what you're seeing and hearing and feeling right there right so all of us no matter what it is we do we want to think and feel or be assured even perhaps reassured maybe that we did something right that we did maybe even more importantly the thing that we put all the sacrifice and all the commitment to that we did it right we conducted ourselves correctly we did it right that answer came whoa there we go that answer came to me the first four seconds that I came on to the stage that night been a long time I've been away for what 10 years or whatever and people screaming to me back and it just happened to be that you know I was already entertaining for getting Watson back together original band I was auditioning people to maybe play a metal band again and kind of on the cusp am I going to do this and I fucking know and I go back and they scream me back into it and that sees up six weeks later or so seven got together with the Flotsam original band the doomsday band and I went to Phoenix and we played two different weekends in Phoenix the doomsday album in its entirety and that took talk about boston through the remember shit you talk about justice talk boston through to remember that whole album do some gray matter there that's serious so we did it felt good sounded good and everything but just the dynamics and things and what had transpired for people and transpired for me at a different pace and whatever you know it just wasn't going to work so then that led me to April that year getting together with asus mendez jr and jesse france with who became the trio the new stead heavy metal music trio and then we added Mike new shock later and made the the EP and the LP and to the tour and all that kind of things so my answer to your question at the 30th anniversary with Metallica those four nights or whatever with you in the corner convinced me to come back to metal they convinced me to get a band that they convinced me to form new state they can miss me to write the songs front the band go out and sing in two or 24 countries again you know that's what happened at the 30th anniversary that's what happened that night so but you felt in the corner I felt from that stage a million fold yeah yeah I mean when you released the new steady P it was fucking incredible like wow this is great songwriting great singing metal and it's just a just a smoker of a an EP and you know you look back at soldier had God Snape King of the underdogs King of the underdogs kind of had a vibe of like helmet to me a little bit nice nice I didn't think of it to get the you know that yeah age had but that was interesting also there was these questions I had about you because when you left Metallica there was all different press of course you had the echo brain you had to some kind of monster footage you had that and I know how documentaries are edited we could turn this documentary this way for sure earn it that way in the edit a million ways million ways it's going to fucking change the story by an edit but my point was at the time you left Metallica there was the thought of your neck vertebrae were really fucked you felt like you couldn't play Metallica at the level you wanted to do it was that true or were you just saying that because you were a little bit like tired of people going why would you do echo brain over Metallica are you fucking crazy what was the truth on that because you come back and you do Newstead and it's metal and you are rocking it you know right the bones in the cartilage or what they are bone you know that that damage is there you don't have to watch too many videos to know it's a very easy equation okay it's yeah so that that damage is done and what I had said exactly back in the day was that to go the way that I went with Metallica when we were that family and Mach 2 that was two hours and 20 for a show right and that's that many songs and I was as strong on battery at the very end as I wasn't at the stop over here right so that that's what I was used to so doing that two hours and 20 the monster that I would insist on being for myself and for the people that no longer exists I can't do it that way with all that right but for the new step then like we're doing right now you know we're getting ready to play a show in a couple weeks your first time in 10 years very exciting this got down with my boys as I told you a couple hours ago we spent the whole weekend rehearsing about 15 hours in 16 maybe and you know physical and I still get it because I can't stop but it was kind of innate and whatever and involuntary but it's not the same demand it's not the same demand and I'm singing every song and I have paid attention a lot to sing so I don't just have the thing over there and play the bass and go die you know and stuff that come back it's I I have to be conducting the whole band playing the bass while singing which is you know a lot harder than just in guitar chords and singing keeping the groove going and singing as a motherfucker so it took a little while to get that going but it changes my demand on the stage it's not the same headbang thing as it is the leader of the band being up there and looking at everybody's eyes conducting with the vocal and talking in between and you know like the performance the entertainment part of it so it's just a different way so I could do a couple hours with the new steadband and I pace it very differently there you go and new steadband now the newer stuff is quite punk I put together this kind of motorhead flavored thing about a year and a half ago and wrote these fun but like motorhead flavored songs so the bass has the first instrument and I took the main three filthy animal drum beats and just picked that one and make a song to pick down make a song and go around a couple of times and then write that many songs and do that thing so I wrote some fun songs and now we mix those in with the soldier had the heroic dose and the ones from the videos that people know but mostly playing new songs and they are way less complex way less complex and flots and Metallica or even the new steadband or I complain certainly just real punk rock straight ahead like motorhead grind fucking that kind of shit and a lot of fast stuff got a double bass still pretty quick most of it pretty quick actually yeah so most of it just fun though fun it's fucked is this going to be one off gig or you're going to tour because I know that one of the the bummers of the new stead was you were just rifling out money because of you know you're playing clubs you got the tour bus you got you're paying the band you're paying the crew you're paying hotels you're paying for gas you're paying for food you're paying everything so is this going to be toying thing or what's going to happen so just so we know about the new that thing you know all that was my choice I take I do voluntarily take on that voluntarily set up the show voluntarily know I'm going to be putting out the dough and all that thing I took that on that was my green light for my voice to be comfortable and have whatever they needed in the way that I knew it okay so the way that I know it's pretty fucking grand and so trying to keep those guys in that place and I did I made sure that they were taken care of in that way we rehearsed hard we presented well we had some great positions in some cool that I played with Metallica all the years of the big goddamn shows they're just called different things now used to be called Donington now it's called down download these guys called Elfats and same fields 60,000 people open for made in there and this thing we had some great gigs so within all of that yes it more than the money I think more than the money because I said I did I did already volunteered that I didn't realize it was going to be quite so substantial but trying to wear too many hats at once trying to think that I knew everything trying to have all of the answers for everybody that came that way and still have enough capacity to front the band and sing and write the songs do all the interviews and do the spokesman and do all of that it's a lot I should know it's a lot it's a lot and I should have asked for more help but I was determined all through at least the first 20 years after I left the big band I was not going to coat tail by any of my own doing I always very straight with anybody that's ever worked with me any advertising even for the flyers for this show right here you can't write Metallica you don't fucking write Metallica on anything ever okay if the this guy that has the fan scene and this guy that has his show on the thing or they're gonna say it okay but our source material does not say it ever I'm not doing that everybody already fucking knows yeah okay but I'm not doing it that way I'm just not going to do it like that echo bring I did on my own and nothing to do with any management the boy Bob thing I'm going to do with any of their management new step project not with any Q prime nothing okay just my own now the new step thing is coming back out and I'm at the place where this is going to be the gauge is it possible for them to scream me back into it like they did at the film more this we will find out on May 20th thought of them if they bring me back okay if they bring me back then we do and if they don't they don't and here I am and I'm still happy it's going to be a crazy fucking show we've been working hard on the songs and I'm ready to give it you know it is actually only selfish self-absorbed self-centered narcissistic whatever this is right here I have to prove to myself I can do it just about your question I have to show myself that I can do that for these new songs that I have I can take it to the people still present that I want I walk away like this to myself actually I need that okay I need that I've played the chop house band for the last 10 years learned to play acoustic guitar wrote awesome songs at violence female singers and all this colorful wonderful shit okay it was actually 30 years in the making because chop house original was 92 and we did our biggest performance of an album last year with chop house but 30 years brewing while everything else still happen yeah it was always Johnny cash from there kind of know that and that's still what it is stepped out of that in February this year step back into the metal to see if I could still put the shit down and that's what it comes down to first so I'm able to feel good about it get that response back that really this could be worth it again cool if not that's something do a re-issue of the heavy metal music maybe record another album school the studio people want to have it some videos are just the live stuff we've been recording and do some live releases who knows but the people will decide for me it's funny to talk about chop house because I played rock and metal and then around I would say 92 ish 93 I start getting into heavy-duty acoustic music with the all country of like Lucinda Williams will co J Hawks and and Sun Volt and all of that Uncle two people fell in love with that stuff and and love it just as much as I do metal and it is funny to think about when you go for a change what that means that people because some people are just so want to box you into something they're like what I mean it took a long time for me to to change people's minds and now I'm doing comedy which is weird but you know I wrote and I learned acoustic guitar I wrote a record recorded it at at a studio in San Francisco put it out toward for years and and and my love of that all country type of music is massive man I mean massive agreed always that also in our house and that kind of feeling certainly the full explosion and stuff late 60s and all that and my parents had the models and the profits and all those things so that went pretty deep into and I think that's where my love for it stays you know ignited but also rekindled by you know Jason Isabel and this kind of thing that I just see great hope I see hope I feel that the the talent the song writing the just just so fantastic and it's it's enviable and at the same time just so easy to appreciate you know you shouldn't have to ever try hard to like something that you either do you don't man there's two kinds of music good and not good yeah yeah I mean Chris Stapleton is a game game come on man come on now when you hear that and Jamie Johnson you get it outlaw country the waves that second generation of it those guys are neighbors and you imagine their porch gems I just can't even it's just mind blowing to me to think about what they do when they get together just hanging out man all those guys are going to feed each other incredible but they become friends with Isabel and his guys 400 unit you know go to Nicole and I go to and a lot of their shows there I'm more than just about anybody recently love that stuff but it his guitar as one of my favorite records of the last couple years man Sadler yeah yeah have you heard this record I have not oh my god if you like Tom Petty wildflowers this record is going to fucking knock you out dude it is really good killer record this guy can write some songs he can sing and it was one of my favorite records of the last few years yeah he's really all there is no week link there just fantastic ensemble fantastic yeah yeah yeah yeah so that's just it's so much fun to go to those places and then you know actually collecting songs you know realizing what that's all about and I had two different song bibles as I call them and so I like my cover song Bible heroes I call it I always keep 100 songs in there and they change you know there's some that are always going to be there and then other ones kind of shift and then I have my original song by the Bible the ones that I've written since the time I dove into this and that's got about 60 in it and so we recorded 25 from Chappaus and then finished 12 but as much color and you know like authenticity is possible no cheating everybody did the harmonies and the singing and the layers and the mandolin and the violin and all the things and everybody's play it right in front of you right now nobody cheating nothing right now can you nail it for you that kind of thing so allowing myself to go to that place after having such rigid stuff with the other bands and having this free flowing wonderful you know some songs without drums and stuff and cool shit you know like you actually hear everything nobody's doing here all the notes everybody's singing and some magical magical thing so we're hoping to I will get some help with that actually I think that I will look for some help with my next records the chat box record and if we decide to do Newstead 2 then I will look for some you know managerial help and some people in the right place so I can concentrate on my roles like I should so that's what I've learned from all of that Newstead thing and then really the reason that it kind of went under wasn't because of money as much as it was because of the load that I took on unknowingly not trusting other people to speak for me that kind of thing too much control freaking shit you know yeah it's funny to think about Metallica it's one of the only bands I've ever seen in my life that has stuck with Q prime the entire time and you never hear about Q Q prime ripping off bands you never hear that about them which is pretty interesting man they are just so they've got to do a documentary on Q prime because these guys understand how to nurture talent from the streets all the way up or even bands that were big and robbed from other management take them on and show them how this is done right you know very very good point very good point yes and you know they know what they can deliver they're confident in that and they expect you to do the same and the people that they choose to go in with it's like a team thing everybody within their camp votes on what bands like new bands they're going to take on or whatever they go out and see them and they vote and like I am like we talked about before about an hour ago I am willing to put my time and miss my kids for a little bit because I know I'm going to get a cut of that okay so I'll work for news Metallica Madonna K.C. Elephant did the did the other seven top bands of the world because I know that I'm going to be able to get something from and I'm willing to put it in and that's where they're at you know 40 yeah you know back in the day Cliff 10 urgent early on 72 73 74 10 vision AC DC way back then I mean incredible incredible incredible history what a history man what a history yes yes commendable yet what's still so cool still so cool so respectful still oh they're so nice to man like I open you know they're like you were up there doing comedy that was wild that's pretty good that's pretty good that's actually representation actually yeah yeah yeah yeah what's your yeah what's your relationship now with metallic could do ever talk to him at all at all OK Lars and I stay in pretty good contact and he's always been really supported with the art taught me a thing or two about it you know and now he really it's it's it's yeah I like you know like you know it's better and he says good positive vibes kind of things. I'm fans of his son's band, of his sons in general, you know, and I think they dig what I do, and so that's a beautiful, another dimension of it all. I still send other guys birthday messages, you know, so it's, I would talk to them in person since probably since that 30th anniversary thing. Yeah, but Lars and I still keep in touch, and he goes, he skis in Montana, and I think Nicole and his wife keep in contact about, you know, then social media, something rather, things I don't pay attention to, but yeah. So it's still positive there. You know, we, we are business partners for life, and I am only ever going to show respect. I'm only ever going to say good things about them. They, they offered me opportunity like incomparable, man, and I'll never forget it. So there's no way I'm ever gonna say anything bad. With the art, it is interesting because watching the some kind of monster documentary, you see the art collection he had, and, and it's funny where I was turned on to art starting back with the Appetite for Destruction album cover with Robert Williams and the juxtaposed painting of Todd Shore, Mark Reiden, and all of these, the Clayton brothers, and all of this, you know, lowbrow art. Were you ever a fan of the lowbrow art and that style of painting, McCoyle? Absolutely, yes. And Joe Coleman, you know, once I started seeing that, that really helped me a lot with my things. I always like to use text within whatever layers happen. And he really helped me out with that. He's my favorite within all those cats, I would say. And still, you know, I do every picture with both hands, right, and always try to do some kind of scratchy writing. And so he just, you know, Joe Coleman had such a great, what do you call it, insight to all this really creepy shit and able to translate it to you where it does not too scary, but still, holy crap, because the facts and the factoids that are within the picture, if you pay attention, gotta get out your magnifying glass to look at the picture, you know, to read everything. That's, that's serious. I love that, I love that type of art. I love all types of art, you know, you go to the Louvre and you fall in love with that stuff. And you know, you see the Mona Lisa in person, you're like, whoa, it's crazy small. Yeah. And you're like, that's crazy. But, you know, everything is art in our lives, the album covers, you know, as far as like picture type of art, you know, billboards, yeah, movie posters, everything skateboard bottoms, every kind of thing, art and design, I'm obsessed with it, whether it be, you know, whatever it is architecture, like being into mid-century and the furniture and everything. So it is interesting where you get inspiration over or where you get turned on to it too. Maybe it's a portion 9-11, you know, any kind of Yeah. It's true. And not everybody has those, you know, thoughts or understanding comprehension of lines or that. And I often wonder, you know, at the levels of, I guess, for lack of a better term, like clairvoyance, like, you know, I'm sitting here looking at these clouds and I see the dog and a demon and whatever, childlike things. Do you allow yourself in your busy adult world and your busy adult life and all your goods so on your screens and you're so important and all this shit. Do you allow yourself this kind of childlike wonderment to be able to get back to that place? And so that's what I have found it does for me, able to dig all the way back there and there's no rules and it doesn't have to be in tune, you know, and it can't be wrong. It can't be wrong. I mean, not good, but it can't be wrong. So just go for it and make it happen in the best. There's a couple really cool things that have come from it. Now, I've been it for a while. Just go for it, not with any plan. Set all your tools up. Make sure that you can keep your momentum. And then there's the canvas where there's this big or this big. Sit back after you must tell it for it. I've been going for it, music's going, going for it. Six hours, eight hours, 10 hours later, step back covered with fucking paint. Look at that was in me. Holy shit. I would have never, unless it came out in that way to show itself what it's just hiding in there going, I'm going to be this fucking bird, you know, I would have known. How would I have known if I didn't go for it? And is everybody going to like it? No. No. Do I like it? Yeah. Because it showed up. You know, it's kind of like a song, but not quite because song got to be in tune. You got to have some kind of plan where things relate to each other and shit in the painting and this kind of thing, whether it's, you know, more abstractly like that, figurative, figurative, abstractly, it can be anything. You know, it can really be anything. So that's what I found in is that there's a purpose. There's a purpose in there when you see that you can be entertained by your own abilities. Not everybody can get to that place where they allow themselves to respect their own abilities, appreciate their own abilities, especially today in the internet and stuff where comparison kills the creativity, right? There's all these people are they're doing better than me. If I would have had that back then, I don't know if I would have done that. I used to look over Scottsdale, Arizona with lots and lots of guys and it'd be two o'clock in the morning. I'd be done washing dishes somewhere and earning my keep and shit. I look and I go, you know what? I know for a fact right now that the next two hours from 2 in the morning to 4.15, nobody's going to be playing bass like me. Any of these lights that I see, I know it. I fucking know it, right? So that was a different thing that I built from as opposed to now where you have to always compare what's going to happen. So I'm not sure everybody has the chance to do that anymore. That's beautiful, man. That's the truth. What would you tell me, because you know there's so many people out there that just don't understand how the money has dwindled in the business. Tell me real quick the difference of course of the black album, CD, vinyl, everything, era of royalties and the streaming now. It's super drastic, your checks that you get these days, right? The difference? In the interim from oh, 304 to maybe 12 or 13 considerably diminished. And depending on the territories, Japan, Korea, Germany, where there was just all all piracy only type of thing, that would be cut by 75 or 85%. So that was that's pretty serious. But then again, once they got it kind of back in order and people will start to pay for things a little bit again. So it's fine again. But the thing that's important in the beginning of your question right there and the reason I mean, not the only reason but you know when you say look here's these guys and they're the band and they're the ones you can see they're the ones. Yes, yes, there was something there in the chemistry. Yes, and they're willing to work hard and all that willingness to go beyond. And yes, they were that there's some other great bands or Slayer and you know, there's so other great metal bands, the money thing as far as that goes when Metallica was hitting and from 1990 or 91 until 2001, the amount of 12 to 18 or 12 to 22 year old persons in all of the population of the 30 countries that made the world go round at that time, as far as concerts and music and things that was all tangible, physical product. It was all records, cassettes, CDs, whatever it happened to be. Not everybody is caught up to our pace. People still at this moment. Done. Everybody has a computer still guys. Okay. People still have cassette players only. People still only have vinyl. It's still a giant fucking world, right? But back then, the amounts of tangible product that could be sold and the cut that the band would get from that is what got us to where we could go and spend a bunch of money on a fun band. You know, this this kind of thing that happened back then it's not that way anymore. So you can get a little a little bit here and a little bit there compared to what that was. Fortunately, Metallica has kind of defied all all predictions, all anything with how they've been able to last and still matter and still have some relevance within the thing. Oh, that was going to say on the back. Another question I forgot to say that to you is that you were saying people are talking shit about, oh, they cut their hair and if you don't tell it, you know what, those people, then God bless them. You don't want to listen to this. There's a bunch of other bands. Please go listen to them and give them your money, right? Because today there was 100,000 people born that are going to listen to Metallica eventually. There's probably 380,000 or 390,000 born today, but 100,000 of those are eventually going to hear Metallica and 20,000 of them are buying all the fucking records when they get to be 12. So it is funny too because I will die on the hill on always supporting Lars and anybody that shits on him. I immediately just clown him to their faces and I'm glad that he battled for what he loved and the passion he has and I'm glad that he was in Metallica and started Metallica and battled Napster or whatever he fucking did. I'm glad there's people out there that out there that have passion and dig into what they believe, you know? Anybody that says that is a fucking idiot. They have no idea what they're talking about. Okay, the depth of this guy, right? His foresight, his comprehension of what the hell was going on when he was 21, 22, 23, when all that was really good, you know? Seriously. I mean, yes, actually, probably his comprehension is 12, but by the time you got to be 22 and he was with us or whatever. No, man, you don't have any idea what you're talking about. Okay, so if he can't play the same fill as Dave Lombardo or some tricky whoever the fuck you picked for today. So what? Look at the scoreboard, motherfucker. You know, there's no do not talk shit about that guy. He's way ahead of you in most things. I promise you that. I promise you. If we wouldn't have had him and his ability to anticipate, to predict, to know geography, to understand what country and what city and what did what at what time and all this stuff meant, he led us through that. No way Metallica would be what they were. No way. Okay, so you need to, you need to get a hold of yourselves because there's way more to it than just being able to have a snare drum. Yeah. And yes, in this world today, like you were to answer, keep answering your same question. Okay, the demand back when Jimi Andrews is playing a black Sabbath starter touring or whatever, the band came out, smoked some hash, played the songs, got paid a little bit, had some beers, chased a girl, went on their way, right? That filled their whole plate filled their whole plate. If they have a, there was a paranoid video that they agreed to do for one second, they put a bunch of oil behind him or whatever. That was, you know, there's no other couple hours in this day, now, or even shit, 27 years ago or something, 30, perhaps, that much of the plate right there would be filled with the things we just spoke up. You learned your instrument, you play it in tune, you try to sing, you know what, remember what's coming next and all their memorize your shit. Okay. And then this chunk is the videos and then this chunk is the interviews and then that chunk is that thing and then that chunk is that thing, that chunk is meetings, that chunk is lawyers, that chunk is depositions, that chunk is that and then check, oh, and then you got debts on for your wife. Fuck. You know, that, that's what's real. So if anybody wants to talk about, oh, I got this, I could do that. Could you, could you really? I don't think so, man. Maybe for a week, maybe for a week and come back and cry to your mom and shit. Yeah. You know, I can't even tell you how happy I am to talk to you, dude. It was just an honor to have you on. And once again, I want to thank Bill Burr. I don't know how it went down or the conversation. I don't know if you said, hey, I want to, I want to do an interview. And he said here, talk to this guy. I don't know what happened, but you just texted me out of nowhere and said, hey, got your number from Burr. I want to sit down and talk to you. And it was a great day for me because I was like, oh man, I can't tell you how much I love your plane over all the years and your, your intensity and your work ethic, your tone and your fucking kindness too. Because I know you don't remember me, but I remember you because you would put me on the list. You'd put my mom on the list or I'd be in the snake pit or we'd talk for a few minutes here and there. And I'll never forget it. And I can't thank you enough, man. Very cool. Thank you. That's very nice. And Bill Burr, yeah, you know, a couple of years back, it's maybe six or something by now. I heard him on his podcast. He's talked about John Bonham. He's talked about drums and this kind of thing. And I'm like, what's up with that? And I heard him say it again. And Nicole and I really enjoy him so much, you know, I'm like, you know what, I'm calling this fucker out. So I got through an age and so and such and got his number. And I call him, dude, you want to jam? And he goes, yeah, you know, because he didn't know what I meant. I don't think he knew what I was saying, you know, like, do you want to jam? Like throw some shit down? Okay. So, all right, I'm going to come down to LA, get a place at SIR, what drum kit do you want, got him a drum kit set up, brought all my shit down, all my crazy shit and set everything up and set him down. He walked across from that. His family is like first season or something and walks over like, okay, he sits down. I got the things set up, replace bass and guitar at the same time. So it's just, right. And he's back to just trying to keep it going. He warmed up pretty good though. And I got, I got GoPro with the whole thing. And it's just, it was pretty great. Once he got loose and got go, it was fun, but that was the beginning of it all. And then we started going to his shows and we go backstage and he always has his drum kit, you know, on his rider backstage, right? So I was going to hang out and try to take a drummer or two with me when we go. So sit him down and his drum kit back, fuck him up a little bit. But anyway, that's where it came from though. And just, we stayed friends through that time and kind of always been supportive of each other and you know, looking out for each other's families or whatever that kind of thing. But it's become a good friendship. And look how I've got another blossom. Yeah. I hope to see you face to face one day again. I'm always out on the road or if you're in LA, please hit me up, man. Yeah, let's do a thing. Let's, let's place, let's place some fucking Johnny Cash together. So I would love that. Oh, I would do that in a minute. You know, I do that Bond Scott tribute, you know, once a year. So yeah, I heard about that. Yeah, everything. But for sure, the next one we do, you must play it. Wow. That's exciting itself. Very cool. That's, that's awesome. I'm glad we got to reconnect as you opened a bunch of portals, man. I could have went forever. And I got a little spacey in the middle there too, because I was wanting to say so many things at once every time. Oh, no, man. I get it. Dude, you're 60 years old. I'm 57. Hey, easy now. Now, I'm surprised we remember this shit because it is like, when you live a life, it's hard to remember everything. You got pretty good memory on the dates and shit. But with me, it's like, Oh my God, I, yeah, I did do that. You know, people are like, Hey, I saw you here and you're like, Fuck, I forgot about that. You know, and you're, you're on a, you're on a way bigger level, you know. Oh, one last question. Do you still have, I, I fucking love one of my favorite things ever with Metallica was every year they would have these incredible leather jackets with the embroidery. My favorite one is the justice with Dolores on the front. Do you still have those? What size are you? I wear like a medium or, you know, large. Let me think about that. I got them. I got a stash in New York. Let me check that out. Let me check that out for you. Yeah, I will. I checked that out. I know that was bullshit. Okay, so just want to make sure that all the people know and if they're the metal fans or the J fans or whatever it is. So on Saturday, May 20th, at Revolution Live in Fort Lauderdale, we're going to do an evening with Newstead. So it's Jesus Mendez, Jr., Jesse Farnes with the original guys of our band. And then Mike Newshock from Stain is with Stain, they got a new album and they're touring and everything. So he's not even with us. But I did some auditions kind of, you know, scoured the globe there a little bit for a second for a few weeks. And we found a guy from Caracas, Venezuela, his name Humberto Perez. And he's pretty scary. So that's our four piece. And we're going to play for a couple hours. Some old Newstead stuff, some brand new Newstead stuff, some motorhead songs, and some other surprises. I'm doing kind of a little bit of a biographical trip almost like the first Metallica song I ever learned, the first song I ever learned from the first concert I ever went to this kind of shit kind of blending everything in. But all bass and all vocal and all heavy. So there you go. That's so cool that you're doing that. And once again, man, that EP absolutely crushed. And I'm on board for anything you do. So I hope that you do tour. I hope that you play LA one night. I can see that or New York or whatever. And like I said, I hope to see you face to face again, man. It was an honor to have you on. And like I said, man, it was great, great to see all those years up there. Just destroy it with Metallica, man. Thank you for the kind words. This has really been fun. I think you can probably go for a while. So I really appreciate it. And let's do it again sometime. Oh, let's do it, man. For sure. 100% we'll get you back on. And let me know how the gig goes for sure. Okay, I will. Thank you. Thank you so much, man, for tuning in, everybody. That's Jason Newstead right there. Go see him if you're out in the Florida area. And then do yourself a favor and go put that Russia concert on or that fucking box set from the Justice, the binge and purge thing, you know, one of the greatest box sets with Seattle and San Diego. That shit is just nuts. And celebrate Jason Newstead, man. The guy is metal gold right there. Thank you, buddy. Thank you. Appreciate that very much. Have a good one, everybody. Thanks, Gene. Handles lit, my man. Rock and roll.