 I'm Rusty Kamori, and this is Beyond the Lines on ThinkTech Hawaii. I was the head coach of the Punahou Boys varsity tennis team for 22 years, and we were fortunate to win 22 consecutive state championships. My book Beyond the Lines is about leadership, creating a superior culture of excellence, and finding greatness, which is what this show is all about. My special guest today, is a very successful general surgeon for nearly 30 years, was the head coach of the Iolani Boys varsity basketball team, guiding them to seven state championships, and the current president and CEO of HMSA. He is Dr. Mark Mugiishi, and today we are going beyond health insurance. Hey, Dr. Mark, welcome to the show. Rusty, thanks for having me, really good to be here. I know how busy you are, and I know that you grew up in Hawaii, but what schools did you attend? You know, I was what they call a son of Iolani, so I went there from kindergarten till I graduated. Then I went to Chicago to attend Northwestern University, both for undergrad and medical school. And then in medicine, after you finish your, you get your medical degree, you do what's called a residency. So I did my residency in general surgery here. After six Chicago winters, it was time to run away and come back to the tropical climates. But you know, my time in Chicago made me fall in love with big cities. So I did part of my residency training in New York City as well. So you know, love the mix of the Hawaii wonderful culture we have here and a big city like New York or Chicago. Dr. Mark, what got you interested in pursuing the medical field? You know, I think it's a combination of things. First of all, I am, I think I'm a, I'm a people person. I really like human beings. I like being around them, trying to help. So that's, you know, medicine is a service job. I also like science. So you're a pseudoscientist when you're in medicine, like a lot of us say medicine is more of an art than a science, but you still have to base a lot of what you do based on data and evidence. So that combination really made medicine attractive to me. And Dr. Mark, what was the first job that you ever had that you got paid money for? So yeah, so back to that theme of a service job. I was a summer fund rec aid for Aliamanu during the summer. And then after that, I got promoted and I got to be at the IA rec center as a summer aid for, for all of the whole time I was in college. Oh, that, that's interesting. Cause I worked as a summer aid for summer fun as well. It was good fun. It was good fun for sure. But you're right. You know, it's all about, you know, having the relationships with people and trying to impact those kids in a positive way. And, you know, for, for nearly 30 years, you're a super successful general surgeon. Why, why have you been successful in as a surgeon for so long? Again, field is, it's deals with people. And I think I put them first. You know, I always say that if you wake up in the morning and you have good intent and you do the best you can, and then you, then you can go to sleep feeling good about what you did. So, you know, my whole career as a surgeon, that's how I approached it. Oh, that's good to hear. And Dr. Mark, why has HMSA been such a great organization for decades? You know, it's founded interestingly by social workers. So it puts community first. I think that's what really number one makes it a special place. You know, when you're, when your purpose is to improve the lives of the people that you serve, you're starting in the right place. And I think that's what's made it so successful. And I like that when I saw you on the cover of Midweek. I mean, that was so good. I mean, so well deserving right there. You're on the cover. And now as HMSA's president and CEO, what is your vision to make HMSA an even greater organization? Yeah. So, you know, for many, many years, HMSA's focus was selling the best healthcare coverage to its members so that they could make sure and whenever they needed it, they, they could rest, you know, rest assured that they would be covered. And I think we still want to do that. But I think I'm trying to expand the scope of the organization to make it more of a health organization. So we're actually impacting the health and well-being of the state of Hawaii because we're, we're on the delivery side as well, besides the coverage side. Now, you know, when, when you, when I saw that you got named president and CEO at the beginning of February this year, I was so happy because I know all of your track records, you know, with your accomplishments and you being a great leader. So I felt like, oh, that's so good that they're, you're going to be able to make HMSA even greater. And I want to ask you, Dr. Mark, because of the pandemic, what are some of the challenges that you're dealing with at HMSA at the moment? Yeah, you know, the pandemic has been hard for everybody. I think probably the biggest impact that, that happened at HMSA, besides the fact, obviously, that it's a, you know, it's a huge infectious disease and it's impacted the, the health of whoever gets infected. It's also severely affected the economy. I mean, I think a lot of people have gotten laid off from their jobs. They worry about their next paycheck, about fulfilling bills. And then their ability to afford good health care in the future is going to be challenged. And so I think the biggest challenge we have is how do we quickly bring the affordability of health care under control so that our current generation and future generations are going to be able to afford access to health care? Yeah, no, that's, that's really, that's critical. And I want to ask you about my books, Dr. Mark. You know, obviously I talk a lot about leadership. I talk a lot about creating a superior culture of excellence. And that's what you're all about. And I want to ask you, what is your, how would you describe your leadership style? I am, you know, I'm a collaborative leader. I like to have people at my side as we move forward. I think that's from coaching a team support all these years. You feel like you can accomplish more as a unit than you can as a single individual. So I think that's one very important concept. The other is that I definitely feel that everyone has a role to play. And I encourage everyone, even in the concept that this is a community and everyone's got to do their job, let's focus on making sure you do your job, your role correctly. So I used to say all the time that there is no I in team, but there is one in win. So we want to, we want to be part of a team and make sure that our priorities are in the right place. But we want to do our job so that we can successful as a unit. Well, speaking of teams, Dr. Mark, you were the head coach of the Ilani boys varsity basketball team for 20 years and you guided them to seven state championships. Why, why were your teams so successful? You know, I do think it was that concept of playing as one team, as one unit, as understanding that the good of the of the common organization is more important than individual accolades. I think that was very important. It was also very important to make sure everyone the role that they played. So you may not be the one that's shooting all the baskets, but if you're getting all the rebounds for us, you're going to help us win. You know, being able to communicate that with kids was was a great experience for me because it's it's thing now, the communication with my employees, our members, same style is, you know, it's it's getting them to understand what not not so much getting me to understand as their as not so much as to matter with them, but what matters to them. Yeah, no, that's really good. And I remember watching Derek Lowe on your team and how did you I mean, he was such a superstar, but you can't win with just one player. It takes a team. So how what would you do as a coach to really have everyone buy in to their role and then to also help Derek be even stronger? Yeah, no, that's a great point. And I think that's why it's really important when you have a great player like that, you almost have to emphasize his role at the beginning so that people understand that everyone is going to contribute and that that superstar player understands that they have to involve everyone else. One of the tenants that I follow is that you want to be fair, but not equal. You're not going to treat Derek equally from everybody. I'm going to treat fairly, which may mean that you don't get the ball as much, Derek, because you're good. So, you know, like, you're going to have to pass it to other people and then take other shots. And then at the right moment, I understand how to rally everybody around him to make a good team effort. So, Dr. Mark, why didn't you retire after 20 years? So the public reason was I'm busy. I have, you know, other responsibilities. I have other interests I have to do. The real reason was I couldn't reach any more from the three point line. So once you get to that point, it's time to give it up to the younger guys. You knew it was time. Now, you also met Bobby Webster. You know, he's a Ilani graduate with the Toronto Raptors and you talked with him for a bit. What why he a successful general manager and why do you think they won the World Championship this past year? He was our shooting guard at the same time when Derek was our point guard. So he played for us. And the concept of, you know, making sure that you're part of a team, the concepts of making sure you understand what matters. Bobby was special in that way. When he was a young high school student, you already knew how to communicate with people and how to make sure that he understood their perspective and how to draw them. So, you know, people would just follow him. He had charisma, he had perspective. And you could just tell he was going to be something to control. Wow. And Dr. Mark, you know, you and I, we've both been on team for, you know, sports or business. And we know what the what the leaders have done. If they're if they were good or bad. What do you feel the best leaders do? They communicate, they understand what matters. They treat them fairly, but not equally. And they make everybody understand their role to contribute to the common good. I think those would be my main points. Dr. Mark, you have a passion for Broadway musicals. And you became a producer of that very popular Broadway called Legion, starring George Takei and Lea Solanga. What what is it about that you loved so much? Well, the story of Allegiance is really meaningful, I think, to anybody up in Hawaii. Because it's a it's a story of a Japanese family is considering the Japanese-American internment camp in World War Two. But it's a it's more of a the basic premise of the story or social justice and equality. And I think that is that's not only meaningful to the story here in Allegiance, but it's kind of meaningful to what we're going through in the United States. And so that's that's what was really attractive to me about it. And then I learned quickly that putting on a Broadway musical like pushing a team, you know, there's all the different players with all the different perspectives from the stars, like to the stagehands, to the finance people, to the, you know, to everybody else, the musicians that all have to come together to create one piece of art that an audience member will come in, listen and walk away saying, wow, that was moving and transforming for my life. Now, I know because of that, I mean, you know, George Takei for many years. What is it about him that makes him so likable and so successful and such a great person? What kind of insights can you share? I think the one thing I would say that is his number one asset is as much of a star as he is and as many people want his time. When he talks to you, you are the only person in the room. He looks at you, you have his full one hundred percent undivided attention and the pope could be walking in the room and he'll just be still talking to you and and paying attention to you. And that that was a lesson well learned for me. I mean, here's a guy who has huge numbers of people like following him and trying, you know, tens of millions of people follow him on social media. But you are the most important person to him at that moment in time. Live long and prosper. Absolutely. Now, what what makes Lea Salonga all these years as well? Well, for her, it's pure talent. She has the voice of an angel, right? I mean, like her voice is unbelievable. And and like it's hard to even imagine anybody who sounds better than her. That is her biggest asset. Dr. Mark, I have a question for you about HMSA. You know, this is from a viewer. What what happens if a patient doesn't have insurance? You know, in Hawaii, we're very lucky because of the prepaid Health Care Act, there are very, very few people who don't have insurance. They're covered by one type insurance or another. Either the employer covers them or we have expanded Medicaid. So MedQuest will cover them or if they're older, you know, Medicare cover them. So 95, 97 percent of people in Hawaii are covered. For the others, you know, they'll have to go to an emergency room or an urgent care where where they'll get covered. And unfortunately for that, it doesn't doesn't really take care of all of their health. It just takes care of the urgent situation at that point in time. So it's not conducive to overall health. Thanks for those insights there about that. And I also know, Dr. Mark, that you got to meet President Obama and how was that experience? And what did you talk about with him? Yeah, so the man has great charisma. That meeting was in New York. It was when Allegiance was going on. He was there for the Democratic National Convention. So speak fundraising event. And I got to go and there was a line going through. And typically you took a photo and you walked on. But while I was taking the photo, I said, Hey, Mr. President, you know, I caught the basketball and then, wow, that got him super interested. And he wanted to talk about the Yilan. He put a rivalry and how come he didn't beat us more when he was coaching and put a haul at the service actually said, Hey, sir, you got to move along and the president forget it. We're talking about a while. Let him stay here. So I got to stand there and talk to him for quite a while. It was great. Oh, that's so good to hear. You also got to meet Oprah Winfrey, the big O. That was, yeah, that was wonderful to meet her. You know, as you may know, she has a tie to the Hawaiian Islands and she especially loves Maui. So we were having a well, well being event on Maui and Oprah agreed to come and be our keynote speaker at that. So we packed thousands of people there in Kahului to talk, you know, to listen to Oprah talk about health and well being. Well, so I mean, to you meet some important people at Dr. Mark, very lucky. I've been my life and I also I was sharing with your earlier professional ADD, so I'm all over the place and like, you know, it gives me opportunities. I want to ask you if we go deeper, you know, what's a what's a personal challenge or a personal adversity that you dealt with in your life? And how did you overcome it? You know, we all have personal adversities. I mean, my own had to do with health. It was my, you know, my own health. I had a couple of health issues that I had to fight with. And then I had my own father pass away from health issues. And whenever you have those challenges, you have to reach down and figure out, you know, how you're going to keep going. And I always say, you know, you can only control so much and you have to control it by waking up every morning with good intent, doing the best you can and then reset and start again. And I think if you keep that attitude going, you can overcome any challenge that that might come up across your path. What what kind, you know, in terms of business, in terms of your professional career, what's a what's a really tough decision that you have to make over these years? Well, you know, just giving up my my surgical practice to come do this job was a tough decision. I love surgery. I love taking care of people. It was meaningful work. You know, the people you're taking care of remember you forever and you do an invaluable service to them when you operate and cure them. Moving to HMSA, there was a chance to do a similar thing for an entire population. But still, nevertheless, you know, giving up my practice, giving up the people I worked with, giving up my colleagues and then give patients was a tough decision. Oh, no, but you know, you're in a position now to really help impact so many more people, like you said. And I think that's a great thing. I'm with HMSA. That's my that's my health insurer. Well, thank you. Thank you. And Dr. Mark, I want to ask you about advice. You know, what's what's the best advice you ever received in your life? You know, one of my mentors when I was learning how to coach was Eddie Hamada, who's kind of a local legend. You know, he didn't coach basketball, he coached football. But really, when you're coaching kids, it's all the same thing, right? You're the desire that. You know, what you're trying to accomplish and get them to do is the same regardless of the technical aspects of the sport. And what he used to say to me is you're going to be a successful coach and replace coach with boss. You know, whatever you want to do as you move on in life, you got to genuinely care about the people in your organization. You can't fake it. They know if you're faking it. So genuinely care. And if you don't care, then you shouldn't do it. Oh, yeah, it's all about empathy. And that's that's great advice. I mean, the your team members have to feel that you have their best well-being as your priority for them, too. And so besides Eddie, I mean, you're right, Eddie is such a legend. And besides him in the sports world, who is another that you admire? You know, I would say in the sports world, I've I've admired coaches that have taken a very strategic approach to the game. So, you know, people like the John Woodins of the world, the Dean Smiths that they've they've analyzed the situation. They figured out what's the best way to make use of the the players that they have rather than just play one way. So I always felt like at Yolani and coaching high school basketball, I wasn't going to be able to develop a system of play where I would say every year we can play like this and we just plug in the the slots of people who are going to feel into that because you're not going to get that every year. So you had to adjust your approach to what you have. And I think that was important to me as a coach and like copying other people, like learning how they did that, because it's helped me in my business world, because every year you don't get dealt the same cards and you have to be able to adapt and be adaptable and and work with what you have in that particular situation. Yeah, you know, that's so true because, you know, for me for 22 years as head coach, you know, I we never had this same identical team. You know, we had, you know, seniors graduate or some returners that never made the team back. And so we always would have a new team. And I'm sure that was the same with you. You never had the same identical team. Now, you would let me ask you this in terms of the team's strengths and weaknesses and then looking at your opponent's strengths and weaknesses and how you talked about strategy. What kind of what what would you do beyond that in terms? Because, you know, you can use your strengths and attack their weakness, obviously, and they're going to try to do the same to you. What are your insights about that strengths and weaknesses? Yeah, you know, that's absolutely an essential thing. But once you just decide that, like from a cognitive standpoint, that here's what we're going to do. The harder piece is getting everybody bought in and getting everybody like to understand because, you know, we do some I mean, people who used to watch me coach know that I used to do some wonky things like, you know, face guard one player and leave somebody else alone and things like that. And, you know, when you try and communicate that to your teams, this is what they're going to do. If they just kind of go like, that is stupid, I don't want to do that. Then it's not going to work very well. So communication, getting buy in, getting everybody to understand that this is what it's going to take as a unit to be successful. It's probably one of the most critical pieces of all of that. So we would spend a lot of time just on that, just on making sure that the unit was bought in. OK, and for me, I would always tell my team that, you know, I don't give good feedback or bad feedback. I give honest feedback. And what kind of communicator were you? Yeah, I would say the same. I was pretty honest, you know, like somebody deserved praise. They got it. If they deserve criticism, they got it. You know, I remember once I said in a in a meeting afterward, we were we were on a trip. So we were kind of standing under a tree so people could hear us. This was a preseason game where you can say things that might be biting because they have chances to improve over the year. Right. We're not talking about the last game of the season. But I told one kid, you know, we lost because of you. And one parent afterward told me, wow, that is like so cold. How could you say something like that to a kid? I said, because it was true, right? But now, you know, now that kid will know that that the behaviors that he did in that game that caused us all to lose, he won't do it again. And sure enough, he became like one of the best players that we had in terms of like fulfilling his role and doing the right things. Yeah, no, it's it's a hard lesson. But and oftentimes some of those kids, they might not realize it at the moment. But, you know, maybe years later, they realize how impactful that was, how it helped them, you know, deal with life's adversities. And speaking of life, Dr. Mark, what's what's a valuable lesson you learned in life so far? You know, I think kind of like pulling from some of the concepts I talked earlier, I'm a great believer in social justice. But what I talked about before is fair is not equal. That what we want to do is be fair. And that doesn't mean that you do everything equally because everyone has a different perspective. They have a different need. They have a different way that they need to be treated for them to be given an opportunity to be successful. Dr. Mark, before we wrap up, I want to ask you one more question. What's what's a future goal for you that you want to achieve? Well, right now, I just want to get out of this pandemic. You know, this is that's the one thing about pandemic. It really focuses you that you've got to pay attention to this. So, you know, I feel like I have a big responsibility with the largest health organization in the state, you know, and this being a health issue, right? The pandemic, whether you're talking about it as a health issue from the standpoint of the infectious disease aspect or a health issue based on the fact that we have to make sure we take care of the next generation of people of Hawaii by getting back on our feet. It's a big health issue. And I feel a huge responsibility to help HMSA navigate that those waters and get us to the right place. So really, I'm just focused on that. Well, Dr. Mark, I want to thank you for joining me on the show today. You are a great leader and you definitely go beyond the lines. I really want to thank you for joining me on the show today. Thank you so much for having me, Rusty. Really appreciate the opportunity. And thank you for watching Beyond the Lines on Think Tech, Hawaii. For more information, please visit RustyKomori.com and my books are available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble. I hope that Dr. Mark and I will inspire you to create your own superior culture of excellence and to find your greatness. Aloha.