 Lauren, you look like the picture of summer. If you do it, it will come. Although I think it's going to be like 50s and drinking the 80s today. Michael. We just got a weather alert or going to get a pretty bad storm, I think. Thunder and stuff you think. Of course, because I put in my garden. All those tender little leaves are going to get splattered and hit by hail and all such stuff. Well, that's what I heard on this morning's radio. Oh, great. Great. So can I ask something before we start? And I. Check the meetings or minutes. I'm meeting minutes for other committees. If you want me continue, which I like to. I think we need to decide which city committees we need. We want to focus. Because there are so many of them. And so far, I only find something in the energy advisor committee. They are talking about energy metrics. And we need to be, you know, we can help. So it could be more equitable. I don't know. But yeah, we need to decide which ones we want to look. You know, into their minutes. And also. How long. I need to go back. Just enough. In case you want to talk today or features. I just want to mention this before we start. Yeah. I think they'll be, you know, moving off of our conversation about how the meeting last Wednesday went. It feels like 10 years ago. Right. So is it okay if we hold off on that convert like for next steps until we get there real quick, Helen? Yeah. Yeah. I just want to mention this before we start, you know, if you think that we don't have to do that, then I will just do it for personal. Yeah. You know, but if you want to make it like a more official. Then I'm ready, you know, to move forward. But we need to really decide which ones we want to look into. Because there are so many of them, as you know, and some of them are really. Yeah, can be helpful for us that much. So that's all. Thank you. So, yeah, so on this agenda, I just got, you know, public comment, check-in, sharing. And then I'm really digging in and reflecting on the city committee chair meeting. And then we can go into like what the next steps from, from that are, and then thinking after we did that, because we'll do some of that like reflection as we do, like check-ins and go around of then reviewing and approving the minutes and then have Keisha join at nine for creative discourses. Like kind of going over their report, their draft report, and then talking a little bit more about the plan for what that's going to look like. And then probably about five minutes at the end for just like fundraising, recruitment, some better for next meeting. How does that agenda look for folks? Cool. So maybe we can do just a quick go around of check-in. How are you doing? How are you feeling? Any learnings that you've had, you know, over the past couple of weeks, and then reflections from the city committee chair meeting? Does that sound good? Anyone wants to start? Yeah, I can go first. So I have been attending different conferences this summer. And first two of them about DEI. And also woman leadership. So I have been learning a lot. And also I just signed up for a Cornell University DEI certificate. So I will finish it at the end of July. So I can share what I learned, you know, when I finish, maybe it might help to our work too. And because there are so many things about this equity and justice things that I have never heard of. So these are, these are very productive conferences for me. And other than that, like Lauren, I start wearing my summer dresses. So I'm just like, if I start wearing it, the summer will come. Then I just heard that today there will be thunderstorm. So I'm not doing well, but I will keep doing it. And for the chair meeting, I really like talking to other people. And I'm not just that we are all working for the, you know, same. Bigger, you know, goal. And we need to talk to each other more often. So thank you for all the effort. Sheina, you did to arrange the meeting. So yeah, that's all. I want to say, I think that was all Jeremy. So thank you, Jeremy. Thank you, Jeremy to. There you go. We are first off, I'm still catching up. So. No, no, no, no, no. Things have probably happened in the last few weeks. I don't know. I'm working on it and I'll be maybe on top of things by next week is my goal, right? We'll find out together. But I will say when as regards to like a change that relates to y'all's work is we're currently in our contract negotiation time and something that we noticed and had never updated is just our language is really non-inclusive in our contracts. Not what the language says but like refer to people's heat and you know just the the literal language was non-inclusive. So we've made that change and that's been really good and obviously the unions have no problem with that. So it's just been like nice and just one of those little add up I think to making a non-inclusive workforce or workplace feel not welcoming and it was a really nice thing to be able to make a change on very quickly. So thank you. I can go. Good morning everybody. I'm doing okay. I'm feeling very sluggish this morning for some reason. I don't know why. Maybe it's the heat that's already bearing down on me. It's the weather changing. It's happening. Yeah it does. And yeah I think just as far as the committee the committee chairs meeting I thought it was really went really well. And I think I was just inspired by all the folks who are doing so much work to help our community thrive. And that's just a wonderful thing to see so many people. And I thought one great outcome of our gathering was just getting folks connected and hearing about each other's work. So I thought it was it was a really inspiring gathering. Well I'll chime in. So I missed most of the committee chair meeting and I apologize for that. There were so many addresses. I went to all the addresses that I had and they all laid back to the wrong one. So it took me a while to finally find one and then by then the meeting was almost all over. So I'm sorry that I missed it. But I did I have heard good things from people who were there and they thought it was a useful meeting to have. And so good for you Shayna and Jeremy and all the people who involved for planning it. It apparently did some of what you wanted it to do. I was in Arizona and New Mexico as you know last week came back with a head cold. So I've been out of commission for most of the last two weeks which is one of the reasons that there were no minutes for the April whatever 24th but I did 28th. But I did find my notes so I'll get those done and get to you as soon as I can. I can check in. Generally doing pretty well. The legislature wrapped up which for my work life means things get much less dramatic which is nice. And yeah I guess just reflecting on the on the city meeting. I mean similar to everyone else like it just kind of struck me in that moment like how rarely the group gets together and like there's all these amazing volunteers as you all noted doing this great work for the city and everyone's kind of just like off doing their their good work and you know some connections and overlap happen but like you know we hear a lot of it at city council because people are coming in and presenting but it's like the the whole picture of everything is rare so I was like how do we how do we foster just more of that collaboration like in our little subgroup there were like all these ideas bouncing back and forth that people had for each other. It was great to see that like energy and the different people's like expertise and networks and connections and just so just you know I think like the equity pieces great conversations and just let that like networking and cohesion around all these efforts that are really related but off on their own tracks so some good food for thought of like how to keep people like excited and doing all this like amazing volunteer work and making the most of it and giving them more resources too to do it so that's kind of some of my reflections on it. I think that leaves me yeah I mean I think first of all is Michael I'm really sorry and I just want to apologize again for the the snafu on the tech and I think you were deaf you were actually there for the most you know all the important stuff of like the reflections and and the conversation you know it was really just a half hour with like of us like talking at people and all the all the stuff that you you know already um and and um I haven't recorded I sent it out to one person who asked for it that Cameron connected me to and then I'm not sure if I should do anything else with that recording or like what the follow-up plan is following the um committee following the meeting um so maybe that could be uh could be an idea um but yeah I uh screaming my porch a couple of weeks ago and I've been out here every day and so that's been really amazing that's how I'm doing like physically emotionally spiritually everything is out working outside um and I um yeah I we've been you know I've been I've been doing just like a lot of thinking and you know discussions at work and stuff about um like affinity groups and just like I just thought it was really you know interesting and great to see how we're all like at the city committee meeting how we're all um not like doing the like everyone's really digging in and doing the work and like this is like so um at the forefront of like everyone's doing this work is at the forefront of everyone's mind I feel like in these different spaces and yet we're all still kind of like floundering you know just being like oh yeah like homelessness isn't in the town has never been in the city plan and like equity has not been had like a line in like Montpelier live before and so like how can we you know build you know like build in the like the structures of accountability in in these different space and that's like exactly why we're doing this um but and then also just like interesting to see how like we're all trying to do this work and like to make a general assumption like we're presenting as a pretty white group and so um and of just like what does that mean for like creating like affinity spaces within the city and so of um just that was just getting I was just my my wheels have been spinning on that for the past week and so um and like knowing that because presentation is not like what race and class is and um yeah just thinking just thinking about those things so um yeah really interesting to hear that you're doing a certificate Pellin want to hear more about that that sounds awesome um and the contract language changing camera and so cool um yeah and then uh also yeah um just recognizing of like where we were as a city and as a country a year ago um you know with um the murder of George Florid last year um yesterday I think um and just like this um yeah this this month this time last year just feels like um a lot's changed and a lot's the same and so um yeah those are some of my reflections I think of like um just like other just like reflections from the city committee chair of like follow-up and next steps um so we've got this like Pellin reviewing the minutes we've got next steps for like circling back with committee members and following up with them um maybe should we pull up Cameron's notes and just make sure we're like we're capturing I haven't I'm gonna pull up Cameron's notes here thank you Cameron for the notes but any other kind of like agenda items for us to talk about and the follow-up and the next steps thank you everyone for sending me the the notes you took so I could add it all together you want me to share them or I've I've got them does everyone have them pulled up or what would be helpful yeah so I think we maybe got like immediate next steps which is like sending out the notes in the recording um I think once we approve the minutes we can do that easy peasy I think then we've got the like midterm next steps which is like following up with all of these different folks who like requested resources or had ideas that were um wanted to like continue the check-in um and I think that was primarily um um Montpelier alive um the boop boop boop boop boop I can't now that I'm just on my computer outside I don't have my my not my computing screen and stipend idea the connected housing and homelessness and planning right yeah I think on that um sounded like Kirby was his name was interested in um joining us to present some materials for us to talk through with the city planning commission or the planning committee and it just for my edification can you list out the groups that wanted to speak to you again so I had what I'm trying to do right now oh sorry sorry no this is great do it do it homelessness task force and and their planning committee but that's all I caught I mean I don't know if I heard requests to get together with us but the the arts commission felt like they really needed some support around you know their participation in their process public art for participation and then also the history on the website updating the the like story of the history of Montpelier that'll be interesting Michael I might like look to you to help me figure out because you're my go-to historian right um who to help me figure that narrative out so who do I like help who do I pay to do a better job of figuring out what are our actual like what that narrative should be if it exists somewhere already that would be great but I don't think it does not the lens that y'all are talking about you know like looking at more of the native folks who were here first kind of lens so Michael I'll take any ideas you are also muted there will be the native folks that will be easier than some of some of the other topics of for equity and because there's a lot of archaeological work done so but I'll think of some people who might be interested in doing that I have to actually first start and by reading what's there that would be helpful I know I I didn't circle back and reread it nope I don't know if there's other like short-term immediate steps like I was wondering kind of in line with the idea Jeremy had like I mean I know everyone's schedules are stretched so thin so maybe it would be like twice a year or something but um like I definitely again found like energy and I think if they're especially like because there was an opportunity to like learn and reflect on something you're not already doing in your committee like I think if it's just like a get together and report out what you're doing but I think like some something that was like structured around like collective collective learning and like thinking through an issue like equity which we could probably do it again and again and again and keep learning and keep doing different things like or there might be other areas too where that might be valuable so I do think trying to think of something like that I mean the other piece I'm thinking about is like you know I know Cameron you were talking about for the budget next year that you know bringing the equity tool in earlier and like thinking through that for the departments and I'm wondering about like city committees that are making budget requests is there you know is that like an easy like next touch point with committees of like can we support them and thinking through the equity implications of budget requests like what are they asking for and what do they want to do with it um what are our priorities being set for the upcoming year and and maybe it's like with our capacity it would be like what are what are a couple of the like this year and then you know build from there or something but that might be just a really tangible way to like work with some groups of how our priorities being set and how our city resource is being spent so I think it is good to meet with them twice a year maybe we can meet at the beginning of the year right and we can talk about our plans about equity justice you know and they can also mention their ideas then at the end of the year we can come together okay what did we do right and when they mention about their plans maybe we can come up ideas in our meetings how we can help them and send like a little kind of I don't know agenda or a help guide to them so they can include those things in their you know actions you know something like that by beginning of the year you mean fiscal year so like in August or so yeah so I think I think this is a good I can put that out in the email so you know where I'm you know the follow-up email of offering that and kind of see what the response is and you know bring that back next time and that's a great idea and then I'll just do like the those immediate follow-ups um as well um maybe can we approve the minutes for sending those out um does anyone want to make a motion to approve and make a motion to approve the city committee chair meeting minutes I second thank you all in favor hi hi any opposed great look at us go okay and so then Helen your can you remind me of what the goals were for looking back through the agendas so my original idea was is there anything each committee is talking about justice equity you know anything we are working on are they talking about those things because in our meeting they mentioned oh we want to do this we want to do that and they were all related to our topics so I said okay let me look if they were talking about this before or is this the this meeting you know made them to think about those things and as I said I check quite a bit uh most of recent minutes and I didn't see anything that we were talking about in our meeting maybe maybe not that specific maybe I missed something that's great Helen because I think that that like really holding people accountable for like you if this is what you said you were talking about but it's clearly not reflected then did you talk like how do we communicate it comes right back to the conversation I'll have the thing about how do we communicate equity issues right like if we're writing it down then it's not real yeah so maybe we can talk about what kind of things we want to see and we can tell them can you add this agenda item in your in your meeting like one item right something like that we can help them to start their conversation and again I only see like in the energy advisor committee they are talking about energy metrics so I thought yeah it's a good good thing maybe because we talk about this right green buildings you know affordable houses and everything so we can work together so that that's that was the idea and also in the park commission they are getting quite a bit donation and money so maybe we can talk to them how do you do this how do you succeed it was pretty impressive how much money they collect so it's like oh my gosh you know they are experts so because we were talking about you know collect money for our you know report too so these are the things I feel like I'm spying but because they are like public documents I think it is okay to you know go over yeah you can show up to any of those that's the thing that's like really funny I think I think the city does need to work on on like making it very clear that these anyone could show up at any time right like I think it's easier now that work I can come like work us here right now workers reporting this people could watch this later if they want to but like don't show up to all of them you know what I mean so yeah with the energy and synergy in the meetings right when we are together I am sure that everyone oh we want to do this yeah it's great let's do this but somehow we have to keep motivating people right so maybe we can do it through our analysis or yeah come up with an idea please you know add this item in your agenda and just talk about it it will be good for justice and acute issues you know so something like that I'll put that in the follow-up email too I I feel like this is becoming a pretty long follow-up email and so I'm wondering if I can like draft it and Helen maybe can I send it to you for that'd be great um anything else around the meeting I'm seeing the case is joining look at our timing of like flawless perfect I do want to just say that I'm not trying to blow smoke or nothing but this was like really valuable as you know we've talked about city staff about doing these kind of things um often you know I think it takes a special group of people to to pull together um such a large group and and manage it really well and give them an objective right so it's not just sit around and talk at each other and there was like an actual goal and I think people learned a lot and it opened up a lot of conversations I think and I'm just really grateful for that um so I would love to see those continue um and anything I can do to help support that happening would be anything right so um you know twice a year sounds good to me but anything that I can do to help facilitate that because those are those are really important and um I also want to say before case is completely on it's just um sorry about the uh Zoom link snafu on my end my bad I'm gonna just chalk up everything that happened in the last three weeks to extreme fever thank you okay I have no idea I don't know what how you tried to do anything oh my god um I am just I just realized one more thing is um Jeremy if we get the mural board PDF or something like that I think that could be can can that can I send that out even though if that's approved with the notes or something like that just like having that visual representation of the synergies yeah I can send you that and then I'm seeing uh Keisha still trying to join so let me see if I can put in the chat well well we're in this pause can I ask Pelin what um you said you were getting a certification in in di what what is that I'm writing in the chat now it's Oh Colonel University EI certificate and where is DEI oh yeah diversity equity and inclusion okay thank you yeah sorry I I felt the same way the first time I heard it right oh then now I'm like yeah DEI sounds like a federal agency or something like that thank you thank you guys and hi Keisha can you hear me yes here's now great perfect awesome great we like just wrapped up with perfect timing so um yeah so yeah thinking we can like go over the draft tier of like what yeah what we saw what the you know proposals are things like that um and then yeah just leaving like five or ten minutes at the end um or you know this can be as long as short as we needed it but just leave a few minutes at the end just to um kind of do a check in for our next meeting and close out so but um let me hand it over you go ahead amazing okay I'm trying to do I was trying to do um I'm just going to do it in my little Gmail because I want to make sure we're we have the same document um so it's the same page numbers as what we sent you etc so I will do that um let me make it a little bigger if I can how's that for folks okay and feel free to unmute and you know I would say unless Shayna you have something else in mind people can ask questions as we go especially if it's a clarifying question and I'll share if I feel like that gets answered later on um and you know and yeah should I introduce my yeah I think it would be great if you could introduce yourself and I guess the goals of this are to get kind of the this is like the first look at their responses so this is not the final report this is the draft this is like an opportunity for us to be able to like put give input onto it and like we initially were on this super super tight deadline because we were going this the the results of this we're going to be presented at city council like next week is that right um but now we're pushing that off to July is that right I want to make sure I'm getting the dates like just to get sorry I should have provided this context before we dove in but like we're we're giving feedback um or just like sharing ideas sharing thoughts if there's you know anything that should be to be changed and then what's the timeline of this moving forward Cameron yeah that I mean July I don't have it in front of me but yeah I will I will put that in the notes and when we have that yeah I I don't have it in front of me either but you know it was like frantically trying to find Susie yeah I mean you know we we're open to trying to bump up the date it's just the two particular dates of the meetings were like a graduation and I'm with my grandparents who were in their 90s who survived COVID for the first time in every year so they were just like really times that we could not do but we could work you know around that if it's not a normal city council meeting or or wait till July was sort of where we're at um so apologies there but you know I think it's it'll be the culmination of a lot of other people being able to give you know feedback and share thoughts as well it could be individual city councillors as well before that major meeting but yes this is a draft um I am Keisha Rom one of three consultants with creative discourse that has been working on an equity assessment for the city of Montpelier I have lost track of time but I think you know we've been really formally working on it and engaging with focus groups and Montpelier residents since January um scheduling you know formal meetings but this started in like 2019 just in terms of building the process and and figuring out what phase one of this work would look like so here we are um and we um did have um you know these focus groups that were I think far-reaching and really what we try to do is do what we would call thick engagement and thin engagement the thick engagement is like going really deep with some people who are heavily impacted by what direction this equity work takes and really understanding their experience the themes that come up for them around you know their needs concerns the the ways that they would need things implemented to make a difference and have an impact for them and the thin engagement is trying to get a really broad sense of the community and you know do something like a large survey which we did and and hopefully those align right because if they don't and we sort of see something interesting that contradicts you know then we're really curious did we miss something and should we go back um so we did speak with over 80 people in our focus groups um this is just a sort of snapshot of um you know some of the kinds of folks that we spoke with in the focus groups the BIPOC and LGBTQ plus groups were affinity spaces so Tabatha and I led the BIPOC group you know as people who identify as Black and Brown um Sue led the LGBTQ plus group as someone who identifies as part of the LGBT community and we were not present for that and I just think that helps people really open up in some ways and talk without feeling like they need to qualify what they're saying about their experience in Montpelier um we talked with community leaders city staff and first responders we it was important to us to speak to a range of city staff and have a conversation around emergency services and first responders and one around other city staff that do kind of the less urgent or emergency based work although I'm sure doesn't always feel that way um we so then we conducted a survey and um we set a goal with I believe all of C. Jack but it was through Shayna so you know hopefully people I think all of you really helped get the word out about the survey was my sense so thank you um because we set a goal of 300 people as feeling like that would be a widely cast net and we had about 350 people respond to the survey um I do want to note and we could you know we have all the demographic information kind of like connected to two responses so we there are ways we can pull things apart that you don't see yet we just you know want to we we shared what we thought was interesting when you kind of pull the intersections apart around responses but 88 percent of the respondents lived in Montpelier which I think is a pretty good proportion I think you know there was a sense in the focus groups as well that there are a lot of people who care about Montpelier who can't afford to live in Montpelier who spend a lot of time here consider themselves part of the Montpelier community so we didn't take out their responses you know it yeah yeah I that seems really important to me like we've had members on this committee before that are not Montpelier residents and just because like what there's some statistic but that like we double for lunch you know like during the legislative session or something you know like it's like that that does that feels really important I'm like almost curious as to like what if the if the experience of people who live in Montpelier how that differs from people who like feel committed enough to Montpelier to fill out a survey but don't live here and like what that experience is and this is just reminding me again I wish we had like gotten some like home data like yeah that would have um or like yeah and um because that is such a issue that I think of okay yeah yeah when we look at you know when we when we look at um some of the survey responses broken out with other demographics you could you know people can say I really would love to see if there's a difference between the people who live in Montpelier and the people who don't on X question um I we also in our focus groups I felt like had the same about the same proportion like it felt like you know one out of every 10 people or so also didn't live in Montpelier and said and asked is that okay that I share because I'm part of a mutual aid network or I you know I'm a person of color who my community is there so I spent a long time there so we did feel like it was valued no one exactly no one was just feeling like messing up this survey or anything they really are a part of the Montpelier community um we set a goal of at least 10% BIPOC respondents to the survey and we were able to exceed that as well not by much I just want to note here 8% preferred not to say their race so that's fine when we did do any racial breakdowns we those people are not included in the because we don't know their race so we didn't try to guess um but we that means we got about 11% BIPOC respondents so we were we were happy with that um and you know you can see more about the race and ethnicity and ethnicity breakdown from there um questions there okay we had another you know chunk of people who didn't want to um identify their sexual orientation uh we had 17% of the survey respondents identify as LGBTQ plus that two thirds identified as heterosexual so um again if we had any responses where we you know wanted to get the LGBT perspective we didn't put in the prefer not to say decline to state folks so I think I noted this in the report as well and in some of our early conversations I it's I think you know it's good for me to know that it didn't surprise you know Shayna or other folks who you know are participating government a lot um you know to have 52% of your respondents have a master's or doctoral degree really stood stood out to us you know and so since then what we've learned um through some of the demographic information that we've exchanged back and forth is that Montpelier already has about double the population of people with advanced degrees um as opposed to the rest of the state and the 52% is probably about double again that you know so it does say you know and when you take that with college degree plus master's or doctoral degree that's a really significant figure that those are the people who you know felt um they could really take the time and have the capacity to sort of fill out a survey I I think we have some comparisons to other communities and it it's it's normal for people with a college degree or advanced degree to um respond at a higher rate than they are represented in the population this is a pretty significant one yes I see a hand yeah thanks my name is Jeremy by the way um curious in your experience how comfortable you are kind of making looking at education levels and making kind of assumptions about class based on those and will you do you make that leap or what I'm curious about that um it's pretty common in the in sort of data informed work to use as a proxy um because it does track pretty well I mean from Pew Charitable Trust to all kinds of reputable sources you know they they definitely have income brackets that are kind of stratified that go with your degree your level of educational attainment um so it is often a proxy in data for class you know we won't make that direct leap but it really goes along with the focus group narrative that we heard that it felt like you had to have a lot of time to volunteer um to the city if you were going to participate which on some level probably meant you could afford childcare to take time away from work you know to to give more than should would or should be expected of a volunteer commissioner that's uncompensated um so yes I think it does track well with this kind of in-group out-group dynamic that we kept hearing come up well if you're part of this group of you know all these folks who are lawyers and have master's degrees who you know participate and engage in more process the rest of us feel kind of like we're on the outside of that so that you know really came up and I think it it is you know a dynamic that shows up a lot in the work that there are ways to sort of try to rebalance that um yeah thanks so experiences living or working in Montpiler this again is is quantitative data that um you know is not abnormal when we when communities decide to do equity work to start looking and seeing significant differences in how people feel about living in their community um so you know you have almost a 20 point spread here between the BIPOC sentiment that they feel a deep sense of belonging in Montpiler and those who identified as white um some people might start to look at this question and say what is a deep sense you know what does it mean I mean that's why we did focus groups so we have a lot of themes that emerged that are qualitative in nature but I just invite people to reflect on this number this is a pretty significant difference um you know in terms of having about two-thirds of white folks feel a sense of belonging in Montpiler and 40 percent of people of color it was um not quite as dramatic for people who identified as LGBTQ plus and people identified as heterosexual about a why can't I do math right now though that's more dramatic is it more dramatic what is yes sorry um I was losing 10 percent in there somehow so um this too is a pretty significant spread that's what 24 percent now that my brain is working um of people feeling that that sense of belonging um you see a kind of similar can I can I ask a question about about that do you have any um larger like national or state um kind of comparison how these numbers how these numbers work in terms of how people feel about their identity to a state or their identity as you know citizens of the united states or something like that so that we see you know we got to sort of get to see where we fit in a in a larger universe of um of numbers yeah I mean I will I will look for national comparisons um you know I think um there's there's been like really really informal data to show that often people of color identify more with their city or community than the country um you know they feel a sense of identity around Atlanta or Chicago or Detroit you know not necessarily the united states um so I'll try to find some more of that research and information um I can only give you anecdotal information about Vermont um I but I can see if that exists somewhere and we just I can sue I think sent me more information about um other like Essex you know where we have done this work so we try to we're trying to ask this question pretty consistently in our work because we found it yield some really interesting um discrepancies I don't want to misspeak but I believe Essex was experiencing a similar divide um around BIPOC folks but I don't remember if we did it for sexual orientation um and education level thanks so um no college degree college degree or above 46 percent for 64 percent and then um you know over half of all respondents experienced or observed racism in Montpelier um I'm you know we're pretty confident especially from focus group information that you know if you if you break it down a little further it's white people who are often observing more of the racism and BIPOC folks who are experiencing more of the racism um we also just wanted to ask people what might influence their participation in public meetings so we had we had a range of um you know possible answers I think this is these are four of maybe like eight answers that people could have given I can we can you know we all will give you the full breakdown these were the four more popular ones and people wrote a lot of comments um other the uh they used the other category to often kind of say some of these things in different ways so if I saw another pattern that was really clear from the other I would have sort of elicited that um but you know the highest percentage of of change was um they would be more likely to participate if they felt confident their participation would have an impact um 57 percent which is still really significant would be interested in attending virtually so you all might that might help guide you did you have different or more participation in virtual meetings do people want to keep a hybrid etc um and then these other two were the you know third and fourth highest and kind of taken together that's you know an important um kind of the significant standout um you know idea that that 56 percent of 40 percent of people said they're more likely to participate in public meetings if they were hearing from people with a diverse range of lived experiences and they were confident the space could be made or would be made safer for people from marginalized groups so these were the four more popular answers so uh Keisha did they give any specific example why they don't feel safe you know it might not even be that they don't feel safe I think it connects a little bit with you know they they may see kind of tense tension in meetings they may you know feel like well how would you know a person of color show up in this meeting would it feel comfortable for them so they might have been projecting you know a feeling that they they hope and wish the space was safer for people from marginalized groups they didn't have to identify as part of one um but very high number for yeah right yeah I can go through the comments because that you know there were a lot of kind of similar things that you know to to what was said there they're you know do we have interpretation are there going to be police officers there you know do is it the same people who attend the meetings kind of thing so um you know there were other there were the other kind of qualitative answers people gave um but this again is a way to dig deeper this so this is an assessment where we start to learn wow people are saying you know that they wish the space could be made safer they wish they could have a more diverse range of experiences represented how what does that mean you know that's sort of a a next question for an equity plan um you know what would it look like to make spaces safer or you know safer more welcoming etc but but I have to say you know these were some of the more broad general questions there were other questions like there would be free food child care etc those were lower those were lower on the list that doesn't mean they're insignificant but you know they make they might end up becoming a way that a meeting includes more diverse voices etc but they weren't as popularly chosen so um this we're still in the quantitative you know and it's not a competition it's good information you know for for city staff and institutions um so you know there is plenty of unsure with some folks because they just didn't know what it would be like to be engaged and valued by the senior center or fire and rescue if you're not a regular consumer of those services um but um you know people people felt pretty good about the clerk's office you know that that stood out to us what's what's going on there is it just a function of everyone uses it and most of the time they feel pretty good about their interaction there um the you know parking and downtown amenities um much more even spread always feel engaged and valued often sometimes you know um although we we highlight later that people when it comes to just downtown people really enjoy the thriving nature of downtown businesses etc um fire and rescue you know it was when when they did have that interaction it seems you know that they felt valued um so you know but a lot of people probably haven't had that interaction is probably a good thing and they felt unsure um city council you know that's where you start to see a little bit more of the seven times never and that showed up in our focus groups too i'm trying to you know in my other life as an elected official myself i know that's hard to see and process and you know another area where we can interrogate that together with the city council but a lot of feelings of you know they don't write me back um i don't feel heard um you know i i don't know you know how to reach out to them they seem unapproachable to me um and so people have strong opinions about their city council and that's usually you know we're a main way you go to get help when you're new to exploring city government you know you haven't elected official so it's definitely worth exploring further um and again you yes jeremy um quick kind of question about the city council question and this may be it can't be answered but i'm i'm wondering about the city council as an institution versus the city council as like my city council representative yeah individual i'm curious about that might yeah that might be hard to make that distinction you know um sues the the lgbt group i want to say i just heard um from her that they spent a little while on the city council you know as a group so she might have more qualitative information there um and we you know we've tried to capture some of the themes of what we heard um but i think you're right as with any sort of elected body people run pretty hot on cold on people and they might feel more favorable about their own city councilor or less favorable about their own city councilor than the rest of the body um but they you know they really highlighted responsiveness as a concern like i just don't feel like i get an answer in a timely way and that hopefully takes a little bit of the feeling of blame off the city councilors if you know they are being expected to do something but they're also you know in a somewhat volunteer voluntary role you know are there ways to make the city council more responsive that don't have to do with just wagging your finger at the elected officials who also you know struggle to get through their lives and and also be you know public officials um police department again you see you know that kind of um more yellow and orange than than other departments um so you you know you have more of the sometimes i think it's i wouldn't say it's like completely even but we get into later and we talk more about the police department um and break it out below but you know we also we would would lift up that there's a pretty paradoxical view of the police department they're doing great i want more of them i want to see them all the time i want to shake their hand i don't want to see them i you know i don't want to interact with them i don't think they should exist in in Montpelier and you know that's a reckoning that they can't be left to manage on their own because it's you know we have to be able to figure out who's feeling what way why what would help them feel differently what would need to change about the police department for them to feel differently what would need to change about their relationships with you know police to feel differently if if police are you know going to remain a department of the city of montpelier that is is worth unpacking further um city website and communications you know that's where you see the the least feeling of engaged and valued that's kind of interesting you know you like people are probably using the website the most i can tell you in state government um in the pandemic you know whereas before the pandemic there were about a million interactions with state government online in the pandemic there were five million so you know people are exponentially using digital tools to participate in city government or get the information that they need so you know it's worth noting that people have like this sometimes is very large they have a pretty hot and cold experience of communications from the city yeah it's because our website is the worst we do okay i keep trying to reiterate we are we are working on a um a transition plan for our it infrastructure and that's like a real big deal for us right now uh and we know it's bad so it's nice to have hard data about how well we know so you can take this and be like give us the money and it's just social media i remember you said karen that like you don't have a person who's on the website and that's just like it gets passed around is there a person who's on social media too um we have it's me and um my office is assistant that does are like this the city's facebook and um front porch forum posts and then um individual departments have their own but we don't we don't have like a person who does that so we do know that that's very it's very scattershot um because it is because we each department is basically handling their own communications so something that we obviously can improve on so i appreciate that yeah and you know you may already be doing this but this is where user experience really matters as you work to improve it what you know what does that look like for people so they do feel valued and engaged um you know senior center i wouldn't even begin to sort of unpack this some people might have said never because they don't need to feel engaged and valued or they might have said that because they have a terrible experience with the senior center you know we don't really know about i i couldn't tell you about the yellow and orange but it looks like a pretty healthy amount of people feel engaged and valued who would need to by the senior center um public works you know just a little bit more again of that even spread um and a lot of unsure so this is where we just tried to break down a little bit do you feel engaged and valued by the police department um by race and um what's interesting is about double the number of white people don't have an opinion right because they don't really feel like they need to interact with the police they may never have interacted with the police so already that's interesting interesting data and information um you have more than double the number of people of color who never feel engaged and valued by the police department are in that orange area a similar number of people feel sometimes engaged and valued um and you have a slightly larger number of people who feel in the BIPOC community who often feel engaged and valued but it goes down significantly it's about a third of BIPOC folks compared to white folks always feel engaged and valued by the police department so and then we asked we did a similar racial breakdown for fire and rescue um you know again really interesting this time it's more people of color who don't feel like they get as much of the fire and rescue they have much more of a strong opinion about their interactions with police um and you know that I guess if you wanted to compare for example 16 percent of BIPOC folks feel engaged and valued by fire and rescue eight percent feel engaged and valued by the police department that's that alone is a significant difference but it really goes down quite a bit in the often category um and you know it's still that's still a significant increase in the number of BIPOC folks who have never felt engaged and valued by fire and rescue again that could be because they haven't needed them but that probably is more of the 51 percent unsure so it's really worth unpacking you know why do they very significantly never feel engaged and valued by fire and rescue um you know and then you know you still these are still somewhat significant I mean there's just a lot to unpack here for people's experience with police fire and rescue um this was interesting because we you know we broke out the clerk's office because we were like well that looks pretty positive overall you know and it remains fairly positive and you know it's that's useful because you also have very few people probably this is the division or department in city government where you're most likely to interact with people so there's the fewest who are unsure like they you know they have an opinion on the clerk's office but you know very few white people feel never engaged and valued by the city clerk's office six times more BIPOC folks never feel engaged and valued by the city clerk's office um you know and then you have kind of similar not like too dramatic of a spread with often and sometimes but you know you're really getting that that hot and cold experience with BIPOC folks feeling never engaged and valued more than they always feel engaged and valued as opposed to you know 10 times more white folks feel always engaged and valued in the clerk's office that never engaged and valued so you know we this helps us pull apart a lot of departments in city government and say okay well even if it looks pretty good on the surface you know there's there's some stories here there's something deeper here about people of color not feeling particularly engaged and valued by the city clerk's office whereas that number seemed really positive and high because a lot of white people have a very positive interaction with the clerk's office so you know something to better understand so um city council so this came up you know and there's probably other ways we could break this down um you know this was I don't you know I I don't want to speak out of turn I'm not even sure if there's ever been a personal color on the city council in Montpelier so you know sometimes it's it's also a function of reflective democracy you know how how would you feel engaged and valued by a body that in many ways maybe has never reflected your lived experience I don't know but you know you can you can see it pretty strongly in the only three percent of people of color say they always feel engaged by the city council whereas almost a quarter of white people feel that way um and then you know the spread again in the often and sometimes isn't quite as dramatic until you get over to the never and again double the people of color never feel engaged and valued um and a slight percentage more don't have an opinion which also might mean they just don't feel touched or connected to the city council um so we you know we tried to just kind of organize the um ideas for change that we received from people we received a lot of qualitative feedback which is great um we can give you the full list you know these are the things that felt like they came up the most um and I see a few spelling errors in there so I will fix those that's my strong suit usually in the consulting group um but if you can get past those um you know these were things that I would say came up in the focus groups and the surveys that felt actionable that were echoed by city staff but also just kind of came up quantitatively quite a bit in in the um comments so um you know none of these are easy I have worked in city government I'm not saying operational is like you can snap your fingers and do it but it is more of what we would call a technical challenge to overcome you can bring in experts and they would make up the bulk of the solutions you know toward um addressing the issue relational is going to take a lot more of that people want to sort of experience city government from an external perspective differently it's what we might call an adaptive challenge because you have to bring in different stakeholders who have very different opinions on what's next and our third sort of category of structural change takes both it takes budget expertise you know relational um stakeholder buy-in etc and they're just kind of bigger more long-term issues so in the operational category um more of that accommodations and access you know which there are sort of kind of standard ways to create more about accommodation improve the website Cameron is on there so you know as as you named it's a it's in many ways an operational challenge that you all are working on um conducting anti-racism trainings for staff that you can do without you know that may or may not have the impact of a structural change like you know making city government more welcoming for people of color but you can operationally add into the budget you know that ability to do anti-racism and implicit bias training um maintaining remote meeting participation that came up not just in that you know key piece about 57 percent of folks wanted to participate that way but in the comments as well um we meant to sort of ask you this Cameron but time got away from us but you know people have really strong opinions about city halls amenities and just city amenities so I'm sure you know that yeah I so I'm wondering about including that because in this because I hear you and I hear it is a thing but it's it's because of COVID right like our bathroom right open and they were open and they closed them okay yeah they they've just the only reason that they're closed right now is because of COVID and they will be open again July 6th and so like it it's less of a to me uh systemic change and more of the circumstances of this past year so we we will open them that is not it's not even a question it's not even a concern we will open them do we need more bathrooms that are 24 hour and clean and safe yes that is an ongoing conversation opening city hall bathrooms not even a conversation they will be open July 6th so that's really helpful to know and I think I think oh what was it probably the shorthand you know this is why it's a draft the shorthand got turned into you know people people you could tell people care about access to bathrooms in downtown and that comes up in a lot of cities and the shorthand of open city hall bathrooms probably doesn't really get at the the bigger issue like you said of the structural change people want but just know people are very excited for you to reopen a lot of parts of city hall and the city hall bathrooms but we will reword that or sort of take it off as a but it's you know I mean it could be a structural thing about like the restrooms but um yeah are they are they also do they tend to be more accessible than other restrooms I mean you know I honestly I think it's because we're open and consistent hours yeah they are it's a very like good touchstone it's downtown it's not state run which I think people feel intimidated by honestly it's not private so like it's not a private business so people feel safe coming in also it is uh accessible for folks who have um disabilities so I think that um not all bathrooms downtown can say that so yeah right um yeah and I you know what I'm surprised somehow didn't make it on here because I think it's in the report and it should be or I will work the the the longer term structural change that staff and others have acknowledged is just physically accessible inviting spaces that you know came up as a theme of the direction that the city wants to go that's very much heralded and welcome in the community so I like you said it's not just the bathrooms it's the access it's the ease for seniors and people with disabilities um on the relational side so stuff that you know is hopefully kind of short or medium term not like really big structural change although these things turn into you know structural change over time improved communication and outreach really targeted to underserved populations you know it it did come up the the there was a lot of city folks who said I'm not sure you know how I would integrate equity into my work and you know communication is a is a great place to start you know so that was an area where we thought there was a lot of room for growth around communications and how you weave equity into those um this again you know this doesn't have to be city counselors who are responsible for some kind of acknowledgement of receipt of communication but that did come up quite a bit and like we said there was a huge difference in how heard people felt by the city council some people you know felt like they never even got a response and is that okay are you is it okay to just never hear back from your city counselor what do you do then um and you know I think this is shorthand too that I would probably edit this is a draft um but you know there was a lot about can can the city do more surveying polling you know information gathering fairly regularly um to to keep a pulse and and even look at what success looks like well fewer people are saying they have an unmet need you know more people are saying they feel engaged and heard so you can be kind of benchmarking are you making progress um you know these were some of the more structural at long term things that that came up quite a bit in the comments um you know housing statewide issue totally get it you know even the divide in terms of staff feeling like we love Montpelier we grew we've grown up in the county in the area and we just never feel like we could afford to be in Montpelier um and you know we I don't know a lot of what's been going on with um discrimination or sort of people feeling like you know people experiencing homelessness are being marginalized but um that was you know a theme for a certain pocket of folks um review and revise policies through an equity lens that's fairly common that comes up a lot in communities that are on a journey to an equity plan um and you know eventually hiring more women and and by staff into the city um and the sorry I had a question about that did you look how did how are you getting that what is the recommendation coming from is that so I was just going to remind folks these are the things that people wrote for for someone like Sue particularly she you know we wanted to keep it really separate the things that we observed and would recommend as consultants um the things that came very strongly from the community and this showed up in different ways like you know there there should be more women or BIPOC staff in a certain department there should be you know they should feel more welcome to work here that 50 percent of the staff should be women and BIPOC you know so people had this but we I just want to reiterate I mean maybe we should make it clear in the presentation that these are these this is our summary of the qualitative pieces of the survey and I think having that in like the the at least just the heading of this is like yeah community feedback ideas you know kind of like creative discourses yes yeah ours are further down but you're right it does not say that and hence it's a draft so appreciate that um this was the you know kind of major themes from policing we you know there were lots of scattershot kind of feedback but this came up time time and time again and I would not necessarily you know just call creating a mental health crisis response team operational but you know there's no there's not a lot of low hanging fruit in policing and police reform public safety um but you know there there are some more operational elements of do you have you know a crisis response that is not police do you have someone available eight hours who's a social worker or 24 hours you know what does that look like um and then relational you know again this came from the community but this you know this is still a shorthand that I don't think quite works yet you know but I think it came from people who are on different sides of their experience or feeling about police that they wanted them to be more approachable and less intimidating um but you know some people were like I want to see them in the neighborhood all the time and other people just didn't want them in police cars all the time in their neighborhood but you know they just there was a uniting theme around having them be more approachable um structurally you know this I we don't have a question that gets at the quantitative like the number of people who want to disarm the police or decrease the presence of armed police we just have that data that shows what people's experience feeling engaged in valued by the police department is but I can say you know again in our focus groups with emergency services folks what came up that I thought was valuable to know among other things is that it was hard for other first responders to do their job when people thought that they were the police so if they were trying to respond to a crisis without police intervention they it took a long time to de-escalate people and most of what they would try to say to de-escalate people is I am not the police the police are not coming um and so you know there it seemed to speak to you know a challenge de-escalating situations that might not require a police response even when the police aren't present just that they're the idea that the police could come just makes it hard to de-escalate situations for emergency services folks um so these are just a couple of you know our recommendations that came from some of the feedback we heard but you know some people might not it didn't show up in the feedback from the survey so again now this is us sort of what we've observed and seen in the data from the survey and the focus groups um you know that is kind of early feedback um you know all of these things then require more planning etc and other policy changes that might take you you might take a deeper dive into with an equity lens into how do boards and commissions function etc do they offer you know other family supports but um a direction that a lot of communities and you know we're even debating it at the state level are taking is to acknowledge that there's a deep divide and it's grown in the pandemic with who can volunteer their time for free and that means often forgoing um other income or spending more money to volunteer like having to get child care or get transportation somewhere that they otherwise can't afford and that you know stipends help balance that out or at least make a gesture towards that balance a little bit I personally and anecdotally have seen it really change who can be at the table whether it's a one-time engagement or long term you know making sure someone you know is is able to get to community meetings as a leader um so you know that is one way to sort of give a nod to that journey of like is there food child care income replacement other other things available to help people participate in a lot of the many processes you have going on in the city I don't feel like um we um you know this often comes up because when communities are are new in their you know equity planning journey um we we noted that in our in our own work that we didn't have enough relationship we didn't quite you know it takes a lot of intense budgeting and planning and relationship building that didn't make sense necessarily for our short-term engagement to get limited English proficiency households engaged in the process at all so currently you know while we had people who might identify as first generation Vermonters are Americans and immigrants who you know might have come as a young person or their parents were immigrants we don't believe you know and and I think we would know we didn't talk to anybody who required interpretation or translation to participate in this process so you know we heard a lot about the small you know but visible um community of households that may have limited English proficiency either with the elders in the house who might not be able to access the senior center or many of the adults um and you know it takes a little while and some concerted effort from at least a city one city staff person to even know you know maybe work with the school district which probably has a better handle on this what numbers are there what are the most commonly spoken languages what services you know do they need and with a language access plan the idea there is that um you know having worked on the one for the city of Burlington um you know the the legal requirement is that you you know engage in lifesaving services um you you know you engage translation and interpretation for lifesaving services first then kind of critical services and responsibilities like taxation etc and then you know the nice to have stuff and that is hard for a lot of communities because where they see the most need is parks and recreation but where they might have the most acute need is not having a child interpreter a police officer right so you you know you have to be really cognizant of how resources are used and then track it and monitor it from there but you know getting a kid a free meal at the park is still really critical you know so it's it's a it's a delicate balance um so you know policing on the community side which is pretty common people don't know you know what what options are available to them to address some of the to offer feedback on policing um you know we these are some of the things that we really sat with given that there was such opposing feedback about the about policing um you know we had a one-on-one conversation with the chief of police we had you know a little bit about back and forth with dispatch um and we you know had a couple of officers um you know engaged in our emergency services conversation and we stayed on the line after to talk more um you know happy to continue my suggestion is if we want to go you know deeper which i'm happy to do that we do it with the current policing committee i don't know if it's commissioner committee i apologize that's you know i think on a timeline to wrap up its work as well um you know but i want to make sure we stay aligned so we don't want to share this prematurely or in a way that contradicts their work um but you know this really comes from acknowledging that we went deep with some affinity groups who have really strong feelings about police and a lot of what we heard was not headed in one direction um so you know what what i would say we heard a lot of was unresolved trauma from past incidents of use of force that never had a process to acknowledge and restore community harm that was done um you know having um having someone you know killed in the community in a in a police in an escalated police use of force situation you know leaves a lot of community damage and mistrust that has that kept coming up in our focus groups um you know we don't want to dictate what the role of law enforcement officers should be in city engagement processes but it should be clear and consistent and you know kind of directed from it might make the city manager the city manager's office the city council that you know this is they have to engage somehow you know so i think it's really challenging right now because of high emotions and maybe some of the you know kind of unfair or um intense feedback that's going to the police department so there's a desire to kind of protect and not make things worse even i think it comes from a good place but you know there is a deep desire to build trust i would say across the board with the police department and it was really hard to know how that would be met without more clear clear clarity from you know the city around how what that would look like um here we sort of get to the heart of it that it's it you know we have to really stop and acknowledge that the feedback is contradictory it's it's opposing it's polarized and you know you can still find common ground there that doesn't mean all is lost um and it doesn't mean the police department you know just throws up its hands and says we're just going to stay out of this you know that's the time to really deepen the engagement and find that common ground and and make sure that you know people who have um a very negative opinion or feel very unsafe around police officers get to enjoy the same privilege that these you know large large group of folks in the city who feel safe and taken care of by the police everyone deserves to have that experience um and so how do you what themes are there about why some people feel really safe and taking care of around the police um that you can sort of universalize more but again it's that desire to build those strong relationships I think even people who felt like they had come to Montpelier and had really bad and dramatic interactions with the police early on they also just feel like they've never gotten the opportunity to air that and grieve around that and and they don't feel safe in many places in the city they don't feel they avoid places you know that that they would otherwise go and that's I don't think something the police department wants that people are you know really trying not to call them trying to avoid them police department's function based on trust um I think you know I wanted to just we're running out of time and oh yeah yeah wrap up and talk about next steps here too sorry there is the last slide sorry policing is such a tough one you know I just it's hard to just be like here um you know here's some some sentences um so you know just wrapping up by saying you know it people of color are exhausted I would this one about don't engage with people without a specific purpose I wouldn't even just put that under policing so I'll probably move that but there's deep fatigue you know there are people who we might have really close personal relationships that still told us I'm too tired to do this you know I'm too tired for one more meeting you know and other people who said I've never been in a space with other people of color in my pillow before this is amazing so you know we try to be really careful with that experience of people across the board and not overexpose them and over tax them without them feeling some reciprocity without them hearing here's what we heard is that what makes sense you should see change you know rather than people coming back and asking you again a year later if this is still true for you um and again you know that transparency I think goes back to the clarity about the roles and expectations um in city engagement I'd really like to get um you if possible to present this to my leadership team on staff before it goes to council I think they're just going to want to just know what's being said so yeah and we're really you know we an assessment is that really early like here was our methodology it could have holes in it it could have you know again we wrote some questions down about you know there were little little comments that we might not have understood why is it so important the bathrooms are you know what did what did someone mean with this feedback what incident are they referring to that happened two years ago that they haven't you know they have lingering trauma around we don't have the full picture so happy happy to do that and still have it in draft form which is nice because we have time before that city council meeting where we'd be presenting it as somewhat final and so just so folks know who are also listening in this is also circulating among all of our focus group participants um you know so that if they feel really misrepresented or don't understand the way that something ended up being characterized that we can make that change as well so I'm an appellant just topped off I think just for me here if folks have if you're you know uh taken a shower and you're like oh my gosh no that's what that meant like let me put these pieces together we should just email you directly Keisha is that right or just like reach out to you directly yeah yeah I mean it was probably best if they go through the city so you all know what okay you know that your community is engaging and what feedback they have and if you put us them in touch with us you know I think that allows us all to capture the feedback for when we are not present you know that someone on cjack has a you know sense of someone's concern and because you know at some point we will be not as present you know with this yeah can I add something that I'm on the police review committee too I'm the liaison between these two and we're starting to talk about our recommendations so I I don't know if you've talked with Alyssa recently we should get this I think before us so that if we are going to make recommendations that we include some of what you've discovered yeah Alyssa got this the documents the same time that you all did and you know it's helpful while it's in draft form if it doesn't circulate without context too broadly but we anticipated that she'd figure out how she wanted to share it with all of you and have us and again I'm really open to you know a session with the city management team and the policing committee or whatever combination I think you know and police officer police leadership you know I think um this is one where because the feedback is so contradictory you know we just really want to dig in and and be of value to the committee and to the police department on how to move forward with the feedback that they're receiving okay thanks and so then um team I just wanted to check in um because our next meeting is scheduled for June 9th um and then we have June 23rd I don't know if we have an agenda that we should check in on June 9th for as well um and so I don't know if anyone else has like something that they want to offer or if we should just move to June 23rd and like you know do hear about how the roll off has been going and and make plans for the you know next steps does that make sense you're asking to cancel June 9th and just have a June 23rd I guess yeah well I'm proposing that what do folks think yeah whatever you all want to do then and I you know I can if you want let's circle up via email if you want someone from our team to be there that is the day I fly back from my visit with my grandparents so um yeah but you know that's why we're a team no so Jeremy did you um so you're proposing canceling June 9th so that we have time for creative discourse to get feedback from other groups or give our own feedback to this and then move it more towards the final form is that what I understand uh yeah just I think I'm proposing we cancel it because I don't think we have a specific agenda besides you know between now and July 7th and I think let's hold on to the 23rd in case there is a specific agenda but um let's that that was my proposal yeah that sounds good yeah I'm okay with that cool okay so we'll won't have a June 9th meeting June 23rd meeting we will uh check in on creative discourse work plan responses from the um the city committee chair meeting follow-up and um fundraising recruitment check-ins um and review and approve the minutes not in that order but I think those are agenda items cool great thank you so much for joining us Kisha I'm sorry I'm five minutes late to my next meeting so I'm gonna run but thank you yeah so much and talk to you later thank you Kisha yeah thank you thank you so much we'll be in touch