 And welcome to the homelab show podcast. This is episode number 53 and We got an exciting release here. It's the new Ubuntu 2204 and LTS J is our resident Ubuntu expert because as we'll comment He kind of wrote a book on that maybe even a couple versions of it Yeah, one or two one or two, you know, there's always new things to write There's always new versions So that's what we wanted to talk about today because April is the release date Well, is the official release tomorrow? When's our release party? Is it tomorrow? Essentially when they make them? Yeah, it's tomorrow So that's basically how it works every year like give you a date and of course people generally want a time Which makes sense to me. They want to know when they can download it And I've seen it as early as like 10 in the morning eastern time all the way up to like Mid-afternoon depending on when they get the final ISO image is ready So basically, it's not much of a release party you go in their IRC or any of their chat rooms And it's literally just dozens and dozens of people asking is it ready yet? Is it ready yet? Is it ready yet? And the developers are saying no, no, no Over and over again, and then eventually it is and then they put out the release announcement So yeah, tomorrow's the release date which could happen early in the morning eastern time afternoon I'll be watching but it'll be tomorrow Now in one extra piece of errata We want to cover here and we I want to put at the beginning is we and Jay will be having the homelab show Live at Penguin con and that's gonna be just a couple days. It falls on I should have the date pulled up But it's Saturday the 22nd of April so April 22 22 We're going to be doing a special version Hopefully the internet and everything at the event will allow us to do the show live worst cases We'll just have to record it and post it later. Well, if anyone's going to be in at Penguin con this year I know we probably should have announced sooner to we were going there, but we've tweeted about it We've talked about it people that kind of follow us know that we've Attended Penguin con in the past. So it's a it's a weird sci-fi literature and Linux convention and open source rolled into one crazy Thing it happens here in the Detroit area. So yeah, so, you know every time I've been there I've never been able to get a Wi-Fi signal someone said I got the date wrong. I will admit real quick So yes, it's April 23rd Saturday, so yes, so when we do a Saturday edition provided the internet stays up sometimes at conventions with lots of people Internet so I feel like there's a very just to be honest on my part I mean that would be great if we could do it live on YouTube there But I mean I've never had good luck with their internet So my opinion is that we'll try but more than likely we'll be posting it because I I hate to be a You know pessimist about this given proof, you know past experience There's a chance probably a little difficult to do it live from there So I guess it's live in person maybe live on YouTube. We don't know that yeah I can't make guarantees on it. So all right now that we got that out of the way Let's get the show started and we'll start that by thanking the sponsor of the show that is the node They've been a sponsor for a while and if you went to our site today, and it was down It's DNS because it's always DNS has nothing to do with the node And we were just talking before we started the show about moving to the node DNS Yeah, there's a much bigger reason. We're not at the moment, and it's not even a good reason So yeah, watch me off the cliff on a lot of things Did you realize it's we're on episode number 53 and we're talking about DNS. Oh, man This is the episode that should have been about DNS Yeah episodes align with port numbers, but you can not only host DNS with a node by the way Which is really convenient you can also host all your applications such as the homelab show the good news is the site was up It was working and if you had static DNS entries entered it worked great if you did not sorry for the inconvenience It was down for a couple hours last night, but I was just telling Tom before we started recording Maybe we should move the DNS for that domain to Linode and maybe we wouldn't have this problem because deal You know Linode is not the DNS we're using for that particular site right now So yeah, so we won't throw any shade at Linode for any of the problems But we do want to thank them as a sponsor and many of the projects and things we talk about on this show can absolutely Be run a load maybe they're even ideal to be run in Linode because not everything has to run inside your homelab Sometimes you need something external facing because you want the public to hit it You don't necessarily always want them hitting up by your public IP address So thanks to know for sponsoring there's an offer code to get you started with Linode So head over to Linode comm slash the homelab show and thanks now. Let's talk about a bun two Yeah, but boom to 2204 LTS and The codename is jammy jellyfish, which is probably my favorite codename. I mean, they like it. Oh, yeah I like it a lot so there's a lot of Different directions to go with this conversation because I'm very mixed about my opinion on this and I think it's going to surprise a lot of people There's some good. Obviously There's some like head scratching moments with this release that I want to get into Well, first of all, I want to start with LTS. I'm not talking about the initials for your company Yeah Long-term support so One misconception I want to get out of the way first is that everyone thinks that you get five years of support with LTS Which is true on servers Specifically desktops are three years. A lot of people don't know that so I just wanted to get that out there Which is that I'm glad you clarified that I Admittedly miscoded in a video a long time ago, but the video I didn't take I should take down because it's old I would say in my best guess like 80% of people don't know that they they read Five years of support then they stop or the or that it just doesn't mention anything more than that But what's interesting about this is that even though the desktop edition gets three years of support It's not like they're checking to see if you've installed from the desktop ISO and then withholding updates later Like it's just kind of confusing a little bit, but But yeah, anyway, it comes out tomorrow as of the time we're recording this It's gonna be the 21st is the date that it's supposed to be out again We don't know the exact time and I'm going to talk about the server edition obviously because that's going to be something that is of special interest to the people listening and also The desktop version as well because maybe people are running that on their desktop or they might want to run that on their desktop So I'm still evaluating the new version of Ubuntu server. I've spent a lot of time with it But I'm also and I guess I'm going to reveal something right now writing a new edition of my book about it So I am diving in I am still learning new things. So There's gonna be some things that I'll learn later But one of the things that I was really looking at here was whether or not ZFS was going to finally lose the experimental heading that it's been using for was it 1604 I think it was 1604 was a while released. Yeah So I can tell you that at least as of today if I use the daily build of the desktop version I don't see experimental Alongside ZFS anymore now that doesn't mean that they won't put that experimental heading back in there at the last minute But that was promising. So when I go to the server version and I literally did this like 30 minutes before we hit the record button on this because I wanted to make sure that I was completely up to date and the ISO images that they have out right now are Possibly final assuming that there's no bugs or anything They're saying that these are the last images that they'll make until they do a point release So barring any, you know last-minute changes the server ISO image that I downloaded this morning Has a pretty good chance of being the last one and ZFS is not an option at all Like you can't even choose it like I looked all over for I cannot find it like you have an LVM option You have a custom partitioning option in there. You do not have a ZFS option. Really the desktop version does now I don't I like I said I'm still kind of exploring this a bit and I I need to look at the Message boards and news groups and things that kind of find out what's going on here because we don't have the release notes yet They'll release the release notes tomorrow, but as of today I could tell you that unless I'm completely blind There's no ZFS option on the server version and that has me very perplexed because they're all about ZFS They've been talking about it for a long time. They've removed the experimental heading from the desktop version, but the server version doesn't even have it Weird It's very weird. So I don't know what to make of this yet. It's still, you know, pending So that's maybe something we'll follow up on in a future episode Maybe even that penguin will mention that because you know, maybe by then I'll get my answer But I just wanted to mention that because that just it just so weird to me It seems like desktops are gonna benefit from ZFS to a point assuming you have like, you know, really good hardware, but Servers I would argue would probably want that more. I don't know. I'll look into it. I feel that way, too I guess as long as you can add it it may not be your boot device Right, maybe you said it's easier to set up in hopefully easier It's up in a new version as a storage pool option For your data store where you're gonna put wherever critical data databases and things like that on there Yeah, previous releases of Ubuntu if you chose ZFS at least in the desktop It would take a snapshot before you update which is great because that way I mean, how many problems in Linux would be solved by something like this? For example, think about Arch Linux if it had ZFS snapshots or some other kind of built-in snapshot system And you know how Arch Linux is, you know, it's a great distro every now and then there could be an update that could cause some problems and how cool would it be to just roll it back as if you never did the update and Ubuntu on the desktop gave us that and I haven't had a chance to test that yet on the desktop version because I'm still also doing the review that I'm going to be releasing tomorrow But that's a real benefit though you think about it ZFS snapshots is a huge benefit for servers If that's something that you could take advantage of Yeah, someone mentioned and I don't think this is the case anymore since they've moved everything to like the open ZFS But there may be a licensing concern, but I think those licensing concerns with the open ZFS are mostly gone now Because I'm used to use ZFS, but then everything is migrated to the I'm not an expert on this particular topic But I believe I understand that everything's moved to open ZFS now Well, I'm glad you mentioned that because I went on the open ZFS page this morning when I started looking into why it might not Be there on the server version and it doesn't say why but as of today the open ZFS page for Ubuntu 2204 says that you know because they have like pages for distributions if you want to take advantage of open ZFS So if you choose the Ubuntu 2204 option, they say don't use a server version of the ISO image They literally call out like you can't use that if you want to set up ZFS on 2204 They literally tell you don't use the server edition. What? So again, that's just kind of interesting so Other than that There's there's not a whole lot of changes on the server version. There is one more That I've noticed and it's the minimal mode is built in to the installer for the server version But I don't think we can confuse that with the mini ISO Many some people might remember previous versions of Ubuntu server had the mini ISO that had this Ridiculous it's like a ridiculous download size of like 50 megabytes I think at one point the ISO might have hit 75 megabytes and I did say megabytes. I'm not misquoting here It was this ridiculously small image for Ubuntu server. You can download that gives you a very bare bones Ubuntu server installation I've always liked that because I didn't like all the bells and whistles that they throw in there and They pretty much they've sunset of that Unfortunately, and I couldn't find it for this release either But when you install Ubuntu server with the ISO image for this version It has a minimal option right there in the selection Now it might be a last-minute bug, but I chose that this morning thinking that maybe that's the equivalent of the mini ISO It had a 4 gig install size for the minimal version. I'm like wait what? That's minimal Yeah, I mean that doesn't seem very minimal to me So it could be an error where it where I chose, you know The minimal mode and it didn't give me the minimal mode, but I'm again still looking into that But that is a something you'll see in the installer when you go to install it other than that though the Ubuntu server version Has all the updated packages you would expect it to have but that's about it So I think the desktop version is going to be probably a big portion of what we're going to talk about today Because if this was the Ubuntu server episode episode over done, let's go on Talk about Well, you know, but we're kind of happy with Minimal changes in the server so there's not too much going on Because if you want to update granted you're gonna be coming off of a several years back So these updates are I guess it depends on where you compare it updates or we're comparing updates to 2110 compared to or are we going all the way back to the previous long term? And by the way as you mentioned with the five-year cycle is someone still on a five-year-old really old system So to them it's a big update. So there's a lot of incremental changes So it kind of depends on your perspective for more of these changes are but it's still it's so refreshed So there's still that it's gonna be interesting. It's where they drop the minimal install But at least they have a mini installer. So that's yeah, it works the way I think it should which it'll it'll be interesting I'm thinking about doing a review of the Ubuntu server separate from the desktop version But I'm thinking that might be a boring review because what am I gonna show like a blinking cursor and a bash prompt the whole time Well, I review it because there's no GUI. I'm not saying there should be a GUI But I'm just not sure how exciting an Ubuntu server review will be out I'll think about that off-camera and I might decide to find a way to do that And that'll give me a chance to really dive in I'm doing the book anyway So I'm diving into all these things and I'm gonna understand the answers to everything I brought up today for sure by then The desktop version oh god one question about the other yeah, I know the desktop version has this for a little while the server version get a ad Setup and I seen someone asked that in the comments But I don't I don't really see the use case for that as much not for server Maybe I'm wrong and maybe I was not understanding that you know how to tie your servers I understand tying the desktops to it. So you're tying it to your Microsoft Active Directory server, but what about server doing? It I don't is that something they would add that seems to see it I'm not saying that it's not there if I would have dived in deeper. I didn't see it I do agree that there's less of a case for that on the server However, it can be argued that and a lot of companies I've worked for even the system administrators themselves would be an active directory and when someone That works as assistive men wants to get on a server and fix something They have to have whatever ad group added to their profile to log into the server So there is a case for that may not be as big of one But it is still something that a lot of companies do and it would be a good idea for them to add that in But I wasn't looking for it But I I feel like I would have noticed that if I had saw it though But we'll see maybe don't quote me on that. I will let you guys know But the option is definitely there in the desktop version has been there for a few releases now So it wasn't in 2004 You but it it was and I think 21 was a 21 10 or 21 of 4 I think it was I think it was 21 of 4 if I'm not mistaken. It sounds right. Yeah And so that means it just missed the last LTS release So even though this feature isn't new it's new to a lot of people because if they're coming from 2004 then You know, they have that option now whereas they may not have considered the interim releases before that So it's definitely there in the desktop version for sure So speaking of the desktop version, it's And this is what's gonna come out my review tomorrow So I think because I'm still doing the review so I could change my mind last minute as I explore it more But I'm pretty pretty final on on the review It's the most mixed opinion I've ever had for an Ubuntu release ever and the whole entire history of the project Because there's a lot of good in the desktop release But there's a lot of like what were they thinking moments that are on there too that really doesn't make a whole lot of sense for an LTS So I I think I'm a at least I try to be a glass half full kind of person as much as I can So I will just talk about the good things first and then I'll talk about the things that drive me crazy. So Good things gnome 42, which I'm I'm a fan of gnome So I I was really happy when Ubuntu switched back to gnome back in 1804 which was great for me because at the time my daily driver was Ubuntu gnome So I kind of felt like it was this moment when they switched back to gnome That was like, yeah, I guess I made the right choice and using Ubuntu gnome because that's the direction Ubuntu itself is going anyway Now there's a lot of people that like unity and were really sad to see that go back then but but They have been fairly good up to recently when it comes to Getting Ubuntu back to the old way which for those that don't know the way that Ubuntu used to be is they literally Created their relay release cycle around gnome so it was like a month after a new version of gnome came out then Ubuntu would come out and It was just this one-to-one relationship with gnome That was great and when they went to unity it kind of felt like Ubuntu just went into a different direction Which is not bad They could go in whatever direction they want to go in but when they went back to Ubuntu or excuse me When they went back to gnome in 1804 then it's like now we're getting back to the way Ubuntu used to be and now we have Gnome 42, which is great the desktop I'm going to be doing a separate Raspberry Pi review So that's on my list But I've read that they've made some sort of patches into gnome to make it run decently on Raspberry Pi Whereas gnome generally doesn't So I'm really curious to run The new Ubuntu on a Raspberry Pi and see how performant it is because the previous version was sluggish as heck on a Raspberry Pi It's barely usable. So If they did patch that to make that not an issue anymore, that would be really great They also added this accent color thing which has been talked about all over the news Which is really cool because you could you could go from light mode dark mode and then you could also choose the accent color They have a whole bunch of different color selections here, which is great because theming in gnome is basically a travesty So yeah I feel like the fact that they did this gives you the ability to personalize your experience Without going to gnome look org and just hoping that the theme maintainer has updated their themes and didn't break anything in other apps When you side load a theme into gnome because that's kind of how it goes So by Ubuntu adding this which is custom to Ubuntu You won't see this into the new for Fedora or any other gnome distro It's a custom feature in Ubuntu. That's really nice and I can make the accent color green because I can that's pretty cool So you could theme it to the learn Linux TV channel and that's that's I think where you're going with that No, yeah, you can kind of I don't see an option to come up with your own like hex value for colors You probably could if you went in the config file, but there's probably something like a dozen or more I'm just I haven't didn't count them, but there's a lot of different options There's even like two or three shades of green. I think so it's really cool to be able to customize the desktop like that. It's just You know No, miss fixing this the right way, but it didn't make this release a gnome 42 So they're doing their own thing to make this not an issue for everybody But in the meantime Ubuntu feels like they could just make it better for everyone right now And the fact that they did this in an LTS release That's pretty cool. It was ballsy because you know Generally, they don't want to have custom tweaks like that in an LTS release But they did and I think it's all the better for it Yeah, that's it's interesting because I think of the Linux desktop going back forever ago in this earliest days Was very customizable and it's like we brought it down with Ubuntu to be a very Boring I don't get my cool Fancy wobbly window effects as easily you don't I know there's add-ons and things like that But I feel like we actually dumbed down the desktop But maybe that's what it needed to be for to grow because a lot of people aren't as excited about wobbly windows as I am Like the people go no, I just need to get work done They want interface consistency and this is something that you know the people who are not directly in tech They're general users and you look at this a windows the interface stability is a big topic That's why it's so upsetting to people when Microsoft has made changes to the desktop to Workflows and things like that the general workers who go I just want to come in here and do the thing I do now they got to figure out where the thing they do is and so there's something to be said for interface stability and not Rising it so which is the reason why Ubuntu mati exists to be honest because it kind of keeps that old way going And it's no man general that kind of removed a lot of customization and when I mean I don't think in the history of using compute or my using computers and learning about technology I don't think I've ever seen as drastic of a change between gnome 2 and gnome 3 It was such a huge change Like normally it's a matter of what's changed like if you're going from I don't know windows XP to vista back in the day Right It's very different, but you still have a start button. You still have a panel. You still have the core Concepts. Yeah, Vista was horrible, but it was still recognizable as windows, but with gnome I mean they removed pretty much everything and started over. I mean it looked completely different, which is why unity Pretty much existed. So throughout the Linux ecosystem it you know gnome change styles from being very customizable to being the set it and forget it desktop and In here Ubuntu is you know, putting all their new changes into there that wasn't there in and of itself So I feel like they're doing a good thing and a bad thing which I'll get to the bad reason later But some of their patches like triple frame buffer support. They they patch that in to gnome that that's not there in gnome 42 so You could kind of tell that somebody at canonical is really paying attention to the desktop to make it faster and They're listening to complaints because they made it like really fast. They even you know, patched the Raspberry Pi version like I mentioned so there's a lot of good here but now we get to the other side where why I'm mixed because I Just mentioned that they made a lot of good decisions But they made some really questionable decisions and it's really strange that they I feel like they're looking out for the user And all these tweaks, but they're also not because of the bad side so When I say it has for gnome 42 I told the truth, but I also told a lie. It's not really gnome 42 That's the first problem I have I'm dubbing this version of gnome as implemented in ubuntu franken gnome not gnome. It's franken gnome Because it's a hodgepodge of just all kinds of different versions of the components. Whereas I test fedora 36 which is coming out next week everything is synced to gnome 42 everything Like you look at the version numbers of the apps everything. I looked at 42 across the board. It's got gnome 42 You look at ubuntu You have like gnome settings 41 instead of 42 You have gnome terminal 3.44 instead of the gnome console that they came out with you have g edit I think it's also version 41 or 3 3.44 When they switched to a new text editor Quite a few components Are just not at version 42. They're just not so it's like you have some of gnome 42 And when you go to the settings screen, so it's kind of funny you go into gnome settings Which is gnome settings 41 and gnome settings 41 reports your gnome version as 42 you can't make this up and You have these outdated apps everywhere in the reason why they say that this is the case is because they were really scared to implement gtk4 in the um In the lts release because they didn't feel like it received enough testing Which is interesting because they held back gnome 40 for a whole release cycle And then they forced us to be one major version of gnome behind before this And now they're complaining that it didn't get enough testing. Well, of course it didn't you didn't let us test it You didn't even give us the chance to test it. So why are you guys coming out with interim releases? Which you know can be argued they exist to test bleeding edge software leading up to an lts So they didn't let us test bleeding edge software leading up to the lts And now they're holding it back again by giving us this hodgepodge of weird versions It just doesn't make any sense to me at all. So if you're not done with your review j I'm going to say that the comment I seen here is great gnome 41 and 3 quarters Oh My gosh, I might I don't know if I have to patch patch that in at this point I think it's a little bit too late at this point Review is very far along to the point where I'm just doing b-roll And I have to check it against the final release to make sure everything I say is still true But I just call it in the review franken gnome and um, that's exactly what it is. It's just A good and bad thing because I feel like they're focused on stability is a good thing Their custom patches are a good thing their attention to detail is a good thing There's attention to detail everywhere. They themed every aspect of the gnome desktop But it's just not really gnome. It's like the I think it's the persious paradox if i'm saying that right where You know if you replace I think it's like if you're playing the board all the parts of the ship before you build it I yeah, yeah at what point does it become a brand new ship? So I think we can argue at what point does Ubuntu 2204 implementation of gnome When is it his own thing and when I was looking back at Ubuntu 1804 and in mark shuttle worth talking about this The decision was to stop developing a desktop unity, right? They they got rid of that. So They didn't he didn't think there's a value in developing their own desktop So they synced back to gnome, which is great They added a panel which I thought was okay because unity had a panel So that would avoid some confusion from users at update But I feel like they have redevelop unity again because they're they're just going all over the place with gnome that It's like what is this actually should we just call this gnome unity or unity gnome at this point is just so confusing I don't even know what to how what to think about this I know what I think i'm going to stay with papa west. That's my opinion so far Then the problem there is is papa west is going to have the same problem because they think about gnome And they're developing their own desktop environment. My understanding is it's not ready yet It's not going to be in the new papa west, which I'm pretty sure papa west comes out next week So that's pretty cool. But I think this might be I haven't asked them this system 76 But this might even be why they're doing that because they they can't even keep up with what ubuntu is doing And they're basing on it Then I guess it makes sense to do their own desktop because how else are they going to be in control of that? Yeah, no, that makes complete sense and like you said this there's also a reason the ubuntu mate exists and is and why it's so popular right So the elephant in the room That I have to talk about Is snap packages because you can't even have a conversation about ubuntu nowadays without that entering the conversation And you can't even like make a comment anywhere online Anything somebody saying snap packages and I've seen at least one comment go through the live stream already So you you can set your watch to this you you say ubuntu someone else says snap packages so snap packages I feel like Get a lot of unfair criticism Because it's a technology that I think is sound and the reason why it exists Because it's a real problem nowadays where you have a developer Let's just say a developer that makes apps for windows and mac os and they're kind of thinking about Linux, but they're not really sure And if you think about it, they they look at linux and they're like, okay, so That's that's target linux. What do I got to do? Oh, I got to make an rpm. Wait. How many rpms? I got to do one for susa fedora sent os And I have to make a dev package for debian as well as ubuntu and then arch is its own thing and nah I'm good. I'm just not going to do it And that's kind of the problem that a lot of companies have had now obviously a lot of people will counter argue that my You know description of the scenario might not be completely valid, but this is their mindset not mine This is what they go through so snap packages and universal packages in general come along because You know, we want to give developers a way to target the des the linux and you know platform with one thing But we also have flat packs and app images so we can never really have one thing. Can we now I in some ways I'll defend snap packages because they make sense Why they exist, but the problem is they did not fix that slow to start issue So you click on firefox And it takes the first time it takes an ungodly amount of time like I was thinking people are over exaggerating with this And I literally have a part in the video and I'm giving all kinds of spoilers here But where I I have a message. This is not being edited You know on the screen while I launch firefox and then wait for it to come up And I have an ssd. That's actually an nvme. There's no reason for it to be that slow And this isn't a new complaint at all people have been complaining about this for quite a while So I don't understand why canonical would Move firefox is a into a snap package if It has a very big flaw that they they just don't seem to care to address in any way shape or form It just doesn't make sense You know even some of them I think there's times to use them and there's times not to It seems to do well with some things But I've run into that same slow problem with snap and I've also seen some flat packs I mean you had discussed this before where it had trouble doing a usb Driver talk would you specifically remember to the ube key problem? If you install to be a flat pack the ube key controller was just not working properly Remove it from flat pack to a normal package to install work perfectly fine So there's always a little quirkiness with the packaging on there Which leads me to be thinking that we need to focus on a package manager as opposed to all of them So we can make one good one and solve problems with it versus having more I mean, I'm all for a diverse ecosystem in some extent, but at some point You can't you know everyone arguing about them and then I'm not also not performing well individually Like put all your collectiveness together figure out which package manager can do and optimize it So we can have a good user experience with it and I'll also add a comment because I was doing the wire shark video Today in wire shark as a flat pack had Errors in it that I didn't get like when I was connecting with SSH It gives an error, but doesn't really tell me why it won't work. It's kind of vague It tells me that the authentication fails, but not why the authentication fails But doing it via the package install works perfectly fine with exactly the same parameters for our authentication into an ssh server So I've run into some weird issues just in general with some of those package managers and on top of the low issue No, you're right. I mean there are some some things that need to be fixed I feel like the a lot of times the issues with snap packages just seem to stand out more Because it's got to be upsetting right if let's just say you buy a you buy a bunch of parts You're going to build a computer and you bought some really expensive super powerful parts And this desktop man this thing is going to be like cruising because it's just so good Just to launch firefox and have to wait a long time for it to run on your super fast computer That just it just makes your even though it's just one app and there's other apps too But it just makes your system seem slow and that to me is a bad thing And my opinion in this is going to be a little controversial I feel that with um canonical's decision to Make firefox a snap package in um the new ubuntu. They've killed snap packages There's no hope for it to succeed now. They have literally Put it the rest of the way in the coffin and here's why I say that Remember um the controversy around butterfs um some years ago Yeah So butterfs has never recovered from that reputation even though they may have fixed whatever the problem was back then that um You know caused the problem the thing with the linux community is that reputation Seems to last longer in the linux community than in any other community other than maybe star wars because let's be honest We're still complaining about those Other movies like years and years later, but in the linux community reputation is everything. So here's the thing You know ubuntu puts out this release Let's just give them the benefit of the doubt and say that they have Or they'll fix the slow to launch issue in snap packages the first week of release or maybe second. Okay That sounds great, but they put it out the door with that problem right from the iso They have created another reputation issue and it'd be hard enough for them to you know get snap packages in the reputation fixed now It's really going to be hard now that an lts release Has slow software that clearly has a problem And I I feel like that's going to make people dislike snap packages more. So At this point I am going to predict that in two years they're going to sink to flat back I hope so And you know, I'll I'll say this I have been a defender of snap packages for a long time I do feel the technology is good other than you know, the fact that You can't have your own repository has to be the one. Um, it's a wild garden And the fact that apps launch slowly but other than that like if they would fix those issues I feel like snap packages would be such a great technology I totally understand why they did this and I feel like their mind was in the right place But the way that it worked out Has just caused a lot of frustration and I feel like if they would have held the technology back longer And kind of perfected it better before releasing it I don't know if half as many people would be complaining about it now as they are and here we are With a new five-year release. They use the snap packages. It'll be very interesting to see how this plays out for sure Yeah, I'm Like I said, I'm just actively avoiding them Yeah, and that seems to be the mentality for most people. Um, and that's okay because if you install something on your machine Um, you know, you can remove it if you want I feel like it's this big tug-of-war match because Canonical is a company so to be completely fair even though people don't want to hear this They could do with Ubuntu as they please. I'm not saying they should make bad decisions But when you use a distribution that is, you know Made by a company and has company backing you have to expect company shenanigans You just have to because companies are going to be companies and they're going to make bad decisions So it's interesting when people say, you know They're using Ubuntu, but then they're upset at Ubuntu for the snap packages and then I'm thinking well You decided to use a distribution that's backed by a company If you feel that strongly about a company's decisions, you probably should be using Debian to be honest, but Um, it is what it is But at the same time, you know canonical has the right to push snap packages and then you as the user You have a right to purge it. Yeah. I mean fair is fair, right? simple simple is that In the big picture don't don't let anyone and I seen someone comment about being you know newer to the Linux world These are some nuanced things and Shouldn't overall impact your desire to get started in Linux or used as a reason not to get Into Linux pick a distro stick with it. Ubuntu is not a bad distro for people getting started It's still where I tell a lot of people get started because you're it's not because I think it's the best distro ever As much as it's got a really popular user base. It's easy to find in search and The things you're looking for or pop a west because it's based on ubuntu So an error you find or a challenge you may have setting something up in pop a west gem really speaking is going to Translate easily to that copy paste into google and find an answer to your problem. That's a huge You know vanish because you're gonna have the as a new person starting out You're gonna have seen questions a lot of other people have so Don't you know j not liking the gnome in 41 3 quarters is not a reason not to use ubuntu still as you're starting And I think and I think that's a good thing that you brought that up because there's going to be a lot of people That really don't care about franken gnome like they is just like it works They have a file manager. They they can get to their browser They can open up the terminal get their work done or whatever it is they do They don't care right. I think a lot of people won't care about that So the my criticism of the gnome implementation is not Aligned with the user so much because a lot of users won't care It's more along the lines of the community and the harm that it might do Because it is going to cause more confusion because if you think about it if someone uses, you know ubuntu with gnome 42 Then they decide to try out fedora with gnome 42 They're going to probably think why is it? Why are these features so different between them when they're supposed to be the exact same software base? And that's going to cause a confusion. So that's really where my problem is is that This isn't going to help anybody and I also feel like The the reasons why canonical did this doesn't add up because other distributions have no problem whatsoever Implementing all of gnome 42 including fedora. So whatever problem they think they have I just don't really feel like it holds any water But you're right. The average person uses it. They're going to like it and I'll say that ubuntu still Has among the best hardware compatibility of any linux distribution on the planet period like Like I see people saying I use debian. That's great You are going to have a much higher chance on debian of having incompatible hardware because they do the worst job of Supporting hardware of any distro whereas ubuntu does the best which is kind of weird But if debian works in your hardware, you're going to love it because it's so fantastic Like debian is just wonderful like the like everything about it Like that's my only complaint is hardware support And the only thing better than hardware support on ubuntu is going to be pop o s because they take what ubuntu has already done Then they give you like additional features like custom nvidia drivers like a custom nvidia version altogether So gaming works better on it. They have additional hardware support on top of it So I would say pop o s is number one when it comes to hardware compatibility Ubuntu is number two and that's still the case now. So here I am complaining about snap packages and gnome 42, but if you don't care about that frankin gnome thing and you just You know remove the snap package for firefox You could literally just download the tar ball of firefox from mozilla directly and fix that problem Instantaneously like done like not only is it going to fix the problem But if you download the tar ball from mozilla and run that you will get up updates straight from mozilla the minute that firefox is released And you don't even have to wait for a package manager to update So you could argue that that's just a better solution in general for firefox You know, it's one of the things I do use chrome for my business And I like the fact that i'm getting the chrome updates because they are necessary And the same thing with firefox your browser is how you're interfacing, you know The internet is got lots of threats and lots of them are embedded in webpages the most likely and common way these exploits are Moving towards getting exploited is through, you know anything they can get you to download and run something in the browser Maybe a flaw on a page. So these are pretty real threats So I always think of browsers as something that just has such a high attack surface You have to keep them up to date and both firefox and chrome have been really good at doing this In keeping those updates rolling So you want to make sure you don't lose that connectivity on there Because whether you use the windows or linux that still is the big threat surface that you know is common across both platforms Now granted for linux if the threat threat actors are getting in They're generally looking for windows execution environment But it's not to say they couldn't do something for linux if there's a flaw in the browser that allows them in So keeping that to date is hugely key to seeing staying safe My suggestion for um firefox for those of you that want to do this. I might make a video about this I'm not sure yet um is to download the tarball And yeah, that gives you the ability to update directly from ozilla, but what I recommend doing is um doing a ch Own on that entire firefox folder make it owned by root But you're running it as your user not root and and that does disable the ability for it To automatically update, but you could just ch own it back to your user update it and then ch own it back to root because If something did get into the browser You really wouldn't want the browser running as your user Because if the browser all the files of the browser are owned by the same user running it and that user gets something in there Then obviously somebody could just start replacing files But if you make it owned by root when you're running it then you're basically adding a layer of protection And when mozilla says hey, we have a new version Then you just ch own the whole thing make it owned by your user update it and switch it back It's probably the most secure way to run it plus it you avoid that snap problem with it loading Really slowly so in that case that could be the best solution for most people I think Yeah, but then people won't update it. That's that's why I'm not Yeah, because once you say I gotta ch own it back and forth now yet now we've gotten off topic That's true. Yeah, no, you're right because updates are always a problem, aren't they? I think the bigger problem could be the fact that I'm noticing that as my hair becomes more and more gray I'm becoming more moody about silly changes So the problem might not be canonical at all. It could just be me We're becoming those older grumpy tech people Yeah, I hate that. Um, but to be fair though, I think the average person will probably like aboom 2204 a lot It's just the people that are more experienced and they understand the Linux community and the different components and things I feel like that's where they're going to start to Have some dislike for it if they're at that level of experience, but the average person They'll probably say what is Jay saying this desktop is awesome. Um, that's probably going to be their opinion Absolutely, you know, I think I think it's I think the takeaway here is it's going to be a mixed opinion release As it has been for several releases now. So I don't really think that's going to be all that different But we will keep using it. We still we aren't moving we aren't moving back to windows in case anyone's wondering No, we're not doing that. I mean It is the case like I sometimes think about if um, I get to the point where a boutu is too much What would I move to and It might even be debbie and Because I know how to work around the bad hardware compatibility that it has and I I have everything written down all the commands and things I can copy and paste fix the problem within like five minutes Um And as soon as you get all the drivers installed with the debbie and installation, it's pretty darn good. So Um, I think for now, this isn't enough to make me just abandon a boutu. Um, I still like the platform a lot I just feel like um, I just hope they can just get everything Resynchronized and and back to some sort of consistency because I think it really does benefit from consistency Even if users don't always notice that yeah So the full review will be out tomorrow. Uh, is that when you plan on having that release shea? Yep, it's 90 done now So literally probably an hour after we're done recording It's going to be done and all I have to do is check it against the final release So i'm just going to hit that button when I know everything Um that I say is true then it's still true then I just hit the button And you guys will see that review and I will have an installation walk through for those that have never seen that process before And I'll probably have some additional a boutu 2204 videos coming as well So there's going to be no shortage of videos and yeah, it starts tomorrow. So definitely Download a bunch of tomorrow and you can watch jay's video tomorrow. So you can install it while watching jay's video And then not install it after you hear what happens. I'm just joking. Don't do that It's fine. Don't worry guys. It's totally fine. I'm just complaining today. Um, they are legitimate complaints But they don't affect everyone. Some people don't care, but um, what I would say is this Use it yourself and come to your own opinion. Don't take my opinion for it. Don't take anyone else's opinion for it Don't take the opinion in the review as gospel download it yourself and come up with your own opinion I think that's the best thing anybody can do And especially when it comes to linux just download it Absolutely to start playing we still encourage. Uh, this is not to discourage anyone from trying it. That's for sure so All right, this has been episode 53 that should have been about dns, but instead was Yep, yeah, we missed see we missed episode 42 doing something with that. Um and now 53 So the next episode number that stands out. We're gonna have to really do something for it. Um 123 That'll be time for a good episode number, right? Yeah Yeah, that that was a that was a good dad joke there. There we go The ntp jokes are all about the timing. That's what you said in the video Go watch my april fools video if you haven't seen it yet. Yes, it's always dns All right, well, thanks everyone for joining us and uh for those of you that will see us in person Me and jay will both be at penguin con. We have a few talks we're doing Um and everything else. So uh if you see us there come say hi. All right. Take care everyone later later