 Hey everybody, today we're debating Flat Earth versus Globe Earth and we are starting right now with Iron Horse's opening statement. Thanks so much for being with us Iron Horse. The floor is all yours. Well thank you James. I wrote a last minute preparation for this and I've got notes all over the place. I hope you can just bear with me. So here we are we're on an endeavor upon a quest for truth and the objective is to eliminate all that is absurd or impossible so that whatever remains no matter how unlikely must be the truth or as Sir Arthur Conan Doyle expressed through the animatic character Sherlock Holmes, reporting like detective work is a process of elimination. It requires that gather and probe innumerable versions of a story until the one which remains must be the truth. Today I'll present just three main points in my humble endeavour to present nothing but truth, logic and facts so that the listener may use their own discernment to elucidate that which is fact from fiction. My three main points are thus one that the motion of the earth disputes the possibility of the moon which therefore negates all possibility of the heavy eccentric philosophical belief. The second is that gravity itself is not possible without mass and therefore mass itself cannot exist without gravity and third that the very idea of anything dropping 9.8 meters per second square that's the very definition of gravity must automatically be dismissed as absolute absurdity if we're to assume gravity rotation and orbit even remotely possible in order to even begin accepting the spinning space ball in the first place. It's quite obvious that even the most heavily indoctrinated Heliwist will automatically begin to tune out as soon as we start mentioning the very large numbers that any casual buyer presents to them despite those very figures being very foundation that their belief rests upon. The irony is the only defence is to say big numbers scare you or you just simply lack the mental capacity to understand them so if that's said let's hold their feet to the fire 0.1. The motion of the earth negates the possibility of the moon as it is currently understood. The stationary plane around simply claims that whatever the moon may be we assume zero motion of the earth and we observe the moon rotating around above us taking approximately 50 minutes per rotation longer than the sun doing basically the same thing. The spinning space ball believer however has to assert that the moon is in fact going 2280 miles per hour backwards from west to east while the earth moves 66600 miles per hour around the sun and just as I predicted every listener is already tuning out not because we're scared but because we don't understand big numbers it's because the very moment we start hearing bullshit we tune out. The less worldly experience we have the more inclined to believe bullshit we will be. That's a quote you can put down to me the less worldly experience we have the more inclined to believe bullshit we will be. Hence now while I reduce my argument to something we possibly all understand as a child like learning to ride a bike and understanding what the sensation of real speed actually feels like. I personally love my push bike from the first homemade retro with one handbrake to my BMX to my 10 speed I was way too small to ride with front and rear handbrakes and no such thing as a helmet or a safety gear. I had a speedo on that bike and the first time I rode down Raglan Hill towards Bathurst the place of motor racing champions at 11 years old I believed Alan Moffatt would have popular gasp with keeping up with me as Peter Brock straggled overtaken as I hit a top speed of 60 kilometers an hour down the hill. Don't matter to me that it was normal street speed through town at the time and the cars were whizzing by at 100 kilometers an hour or that in my parent's car I could stick my hand out the window until I'm actually reading the wrong one here. I'll just have to keep going with it. Bloody hell. How did I do that? It is what it is. So sorry about that. So sorry I mixed up my notes as I thought I would. Didn't matter there was a normal street speeds going at the time 60 kilometers an hour and the cars were whizzing by at 100 kilometers an hour but in my parent's car I could stick my hand out the window and feel the wave. Yet here we are about to listen the same old regurgitated nonsense. We don't feel speed. To use an analogy let's say I rode my bike at a steady sedate 10 kilometers an hour around a parked car remaining a constant 10 meters from it. I can ride round and round all day no problem. Now say the owner shows up and starts to drive just five kilometers an hour through the car park suddenly I find myself forced to speed up to quickly dash around in front of the vehicle then immediately apply the brakes to slow down and speed up again as I dash around behind speed up even more to get back in front again. In other words I've gone from a simple orbit to a crazy elongated spiraling motion at just five kilometers an hour. Imagine now we hit the streets and start to move a whopping 50 kilometers an hour even on a motorbike I'd be performing absolute ludicrous dangerous stunts if I had a chance of maintaining the same 10 meter distance from the car at all times. Let's say for safety I decided to say 50 meters from the car finding such a race track aside perhaps some deserted salt flat would be required I'd now be performing even more elaborate feats of extraordinary precision because I passed in front of the car I'd literally have to simultaneously slide sideways before madly turning and literally keep on sliding forwards as the car passed me so I can maintain a constant distance from it. In fact the further I get from the car the faster it goes the more ludicrous the whole concept of a simple orbit becomes. Mark here like any good indoctrinated heliwist will invoke gravity as the strongly invisible tether holding the moon to the earth as the earth goes more than 100,000 kilometers an hour chasing the sun moving a mere 827,202.816 kilometers an hour which leads to my second point that this magical tether called gravity. My heliwist buddy here will declare that whilst all these unfathomable speeds of sliding swirling twirling and spiraling are carrying on at distances of absolute unfathomable enormity at the end of the day it all sticks together due to the attraction of mass for no other reason than its mass. What's weird is that if I had no mass in the first place there would be a no traction and therefore no mass. Pardon my notes. What's weird about this feeling of attraction however is that if it had no mass it won't feel attracted. The heliwist is out there spinning and wobbling all its booty but the gas molecule says hey see this tiny little straw and a glass of water. Hell I'll let this guy put a finger over my tiny little hole and I'll be way more attracted to that than your massive tilted wobbling booty down low. The power of the suck destroys your power of the booty even when your booty power is strongest. All the which leads to point three which is you must insist the attraction of mass causes all other masses to be attracted towards the big booty at a rate of 9.8 meters per second squared. Let's just say 10 meters per second squared for the difference of your very big numbers are going to make. According to your own figures the spinning spaceball of roughly 40,000 kilometers circumference is rotating once per day at roughly uh had to delete that 40,000 divided by 24 1,666 no 1 million 666,067 divided by 60 27.78 per minute divided by 60 to 0.463 times 1,000 are put in the meters 463 meters per second. It must be falling sideways to create delusions of just dropping down at 10 meters per second squared. As crazy as your belief already sounds to be dropping sideways of the slant some 463 meters per second sideways to create the illusion of falling straight down at just 10 meters per second squared. This heliostere will beliefly shield on behalf of his heliocentric belief that that's not all folks but but but wait there's more the sun itself moves 19,852,868 kilometers per day so everything creating the illusion of just dropping 10 meters per second automatically knows the directional speed of the earth's rotating this way or that it automatically knows the difference between orbiting and rotating and doesn't care about the weather it automatically just knows which direction to slide diagonally this way or that in order to keep up the illusion of just dropping straight down and if that doesn't blow your mind just imagine the various speeds and every individual star must be moving to create the illusion from thousands of light years away that they don't even move at all just for this tiny little insignificant blue dot earth thank you very much for that opening statement and with that one of first let you know folks if it's your first time here at modern day debate we are a neutral platform hosting debates on science religion and politics i'm your host james we have a podcast as well if you haven't checked that out you should but also housekeeping stuff for the channel as you can see at the bottom right of your screen modern day debate is also on tick tock we are trying to get to a thousand followers on tick tock the reason is that unlocks the feature of being able to live stream which is a huge deal as that can help us expand this neutral platform of modern day debate all across the internet so if you have tick tock i am going to put that link for our tick tock in the top of the chat right now it's also in the description box if you like to follow us there that helps us expand our neutral platform and with that thanks very much mark the floor is all yours for your opening as well thank you so much james i'll just share my screen quickly just one second sorry just going to get organized here and screen to crystal clear we're ready for you fantastic thank you um good morning or evening as the case may be i am mark reid and i have the pleasure to be debating the negative position on the position of is the earth flat i want to thank james and modern day debate for planning a platform for this to pay my opponent and also wish to thank you for giving me your time i'll go through a few things and establish why flat earth simply cannot work with what we observe in the world these observations are very straightforward but i challenge you to think about them and how they would actually work on a flat earth as it seems completely incompatible today i'll be challenging my opponent to provide a reasonable rational explanation of how these phenomena work on a flat earth and i'll expect him to explain all of them in detail so let's begin so first off circumpolar stars this is a time lapse of the north circumpolar stars notice that it's going in an anti-clockwise direction this way and this will become important later um the person in the uk that took this footage was facing north towards north pole note that the circumpolar constellations with laris the center here isn't directly above the viewer however since he is in northern uk laris is quite high in the sky and that was a pretty cool thing that the guys captured now this is the circumpolar stars in the uh did i just switch back uh there we go this is the circumpolar stars in the uh southern hemisphere note that they are going uh when i can get my pointer my apologies note that they're going the opposite direction they're actually going clockwise in the southern hemisphere this way um this was taken in australia kuna barra brand in new south wales so it's not as close to the south pole as the last footage from the uk is to the north pole notice that the constellations which there is no central star um is a is a lot closer to the horizon than the northern footage um and i will go then okay so this is comparing the three perspectives together north south and equator at the north and south we have these orbits sort of high in the sky and the further we get towards the pole you get a higher and higher circumpolar constellations in the sky at the equator the stars rotate directly overhead but they are curved to the left and right um and i'll just sort of point that out here and here and there's a very good reason for that which i will get to whoops so this taken this photograph was taken from alaska at the beluga lake observatory um this observatory at a higher latitude than the uk the circumpolar constellations appear yet higher in the sky so it's much higher um this one was taken by patrick cullis at a research station in the antarctic um the beam you see is just a lidar it basically measures weather observations uh it's a laser used for atmospheric readings um notice the stars are directly overhead he's looking up past the building now to address the point of all of this why is the circumpolar constellations above the directly above the poles at the north and south pole but when you get lower the closer you get to the equator what is causing this on a flat earth why don't the the circumpolar stars have the same height if the earth is a flat plane so i'm going to show you what the problem exactly is uh let's let's zoom down to north america and and sort of have a look at it so um i'll just wait till it gets into here and this is this is from america um i'll just lined up this is from america facing the north pole now the circumpolar stars when you look here are going anti-clockwise and and pretty close to the horizon from from the usa um but hang on a second um if we move directly towards those circumpolar stars now this is directly towards it uh is that going okay so when we get to the equator and and and africa what we're not seeing is is the the circumpolar stars above us what we're seeing when we look from africa south is the southern circumpolar stars going in the opposite way clockwise why is that how does that work how can you move directly towards the circumpolar star stars from the northern hemisphere and they don't they just disappear on a flat earth it doesn't work um where did the southern polar stars come from why did they move up from behind the horizon why can't you see them before if you're on a flat plane why is that um now these constellations um are traveling in the opposite direction clockwise and let's go south to the antarctic just going directly towards those stars right directly towards them okay uh just wait for a sec for my animation and we will move directly towards them to the antarctic now keep in mind the stars um the circumpolar stars are not straight in front of us you know where they are at the antarctic directly above us so at the south pole we suddenly have the southern circumpolar stars above us why why do they change that orientation to above us and i'll get um iron horse to explain exactly why that is now i know why this happens on a um a sorry my bad um i know why this happens on a um globe earth but i just want to point out oh god i just want to point out there's another problem if my thing would work sorry i got to go through this animation again it don't take a second um but keep in mind um north america you see the circumpolar stars going um anti-clockwise um they're above you then you see the southern ones rising from the uh horizon then as you move towards the antarctic um basically they're above you and and sorry i can't seem to skip forward on this my apologies um i'll just wait for this to now i'll zoom out and and my animation will zoom out now flat earth has another problem i'll get ross to explain the southern circumpolar stars in the south are seen by south africa australia and south america so south africa sees them australia sees them and south america sees them so where are they and and why do they seem are they exactly the same constellations and if they are in all three places traveling clockwise why do they not interfere with one another why do they not clash with one another ross is going to have to explain that as well so let's find out how does that work on a globe uh our guy here and i'll get appointed to show you or actually a panel of it um a guy here looks north and he can see the north solar circumpolar stars as he moves north around here the stars go above him so they're directly above when he goes around the other side of the earth traveling south those stars here emerge from the horizon and and he basically when you get to the south pole antarctic here and look north they're directly above you everything works perfectly and people from south america australia and and africa all can see exactly the same stars they're exactly the same and it explains it all perfectly but we'll get ross to explain this one on his his pizza um this is another problem the flat the earth is uh the flat earth has the sun on one side or the another the problem is the light has to reach far enough that matches the observations for instance when the sun is setting in western australia it is rising in africa however on the model that ross has the light travels further um around the sides whoops the light travels further around the sides that way then it does towards the center why what is the physical properties that stop the light traveling past the center it's taiwan for instance why is taiwan that is up here why aren't they seeing the sun why does the light travel so far in one direction but refuse to pass the north pole why is it that the antarctica gets 24 hours of light in the summer and not in the winter it's completely dark in the winter we'll get ross to explain that one for us um so these are lunar eclipses taken all around the world these are just an example there are literally millions of these pictures taken by people all over the world from every vantage every angle every elevation the shadow on the moon is always a curved shadow there is never a shadow that has a flat edge why if the earth is always flat then how is it always curved when viewed from any angle why don't we ever see one of the edges of the flat earth that my opponent claims exists on any lunar eclipse why has no one ever in the history of humankind ever seen a flat edge um this is how a lunar eclipse works on a globe model take note this is not to scale it is just to explain what is happening if the sun and the moon are rotating above the earth then what is a lunar eclipse why does the moon have a shadow on it at all what is causing it and when a total lunar eclipse occurs is the sun underneath the earth if so why do the people on the opposite side of the earth from those who see the eclipse still see the sun this makes zero sense on a flat earth model and i want ross to explain this i want a detailed and rational explanation for my opponent as to how this is occurring and what is causing it do note also that the moon orbits the the earth so the distance between here and here is always the same exactly the same right so this is important and it's tidally locked and what that means is that the moon rotates in a way that it will always have the same side this side facing towards the earth um that's what tidally locked means it basically means that it's locked in a position where it always faces the earth now this is important because um we always see the same face of the earth we see different phases of the moon but it's always the same side this is important because it goes like flat earth goes against what we see from our moon if the moon's always the same side if you are looking at it from a flat plane the distance you would view it on from here to over the other side on an angle would be much longer therefore it should be smaller and don't get me wrong the moon has slight variations in size but the flat earth cannot it should be way smaller being over here but it's not we see it as roughly the same size the other problem is that if you've got one side here that you're seeing you should see that side of the moon but you don't or on a flat earth you shouldn't you should see that part there but you don't you always see the bottom of the on this diagram the face of the the moon that we we again this is another example of how the flat earth repeatedly fails to match reality it is it is a broken model that just does not work so these are the questions I have for my opponent he seems to have left I'd like him to write them down I expect a detailed answer that explains all of these phenomenon and and we can go on to his explanations why does the circumpolar celestial stars rotate in just directions why are they directly above when at the south and north pole yet at the horizon when at the celestial equator how does light travel from the sun a far greater just as latitudinal than longitudinal why does the shadow on a lunar eclipse always appear round no matter what location or orientation it's viewed in and how did a lunar eclipse has worked at all why does the moon always appear the same size and why do we always seem the same face you might want to take these these down iron horse because you're going to have to answer them thank you for listening and giving me your time I will pass the mic back to James thank you James thank you very much for that opening and a couple of other quick housekeeping things folks I think you're on mute James you're on mute mate that's right let me I've got a mute on zoom and then I've got a mute on OBS so now I'm free on both thanks for that want to let you know folks if you haven't yet hit that subscribe button do so now we have many juicy debates coming up that you don't want to miss in fact this is a debate that we've been showing at the bottom right for a while let me pull this one up as it's finally got a title in particular as you can see Daniel Hakigachu and inspiring philosophies Mike Jones have agreed to debate this is going to be a juggernaut of a debate you don't want to miss it it's on the controversial topic a whether or not child marriage is acceptable so you don't want to miss that one as well as many other topics that the mainstream media doesn't cover we host them here in our debates so hit that subscribe button for plenty more juicy debates coming up with that we're going to jump into the open conversation thank you very much gentlemen the floor is all yours well I finished off I think Iron Horse should start us off to be fair yeah no worries thanks for that Mark it was very interesting you know I should have set an alarm clock so I knew when to wake up I basically brought real serious observable facts to the debate and you bought a bunch of CGI and pretty pictures and all sorts of stuff that aren't exactly how we look at the world at all and you think that you somehow presented an argument with basically you've just thrown a bunch of questions at me rather than even try to defend your globe now if you're going to defend your globe and say that by looking at the lights in the ceiling we're going to prove the nature and shape of the floor you know you've got a pretty big task ahead of you and you basically brought up second poll of stars now this is one thing I've been asking uh globes throughout multiple forums for many years now to do this a simple experiment and that is just simply put two cameras onto a ball you know use a globe earth if you want you know one of your classroom toy models that you like to use put two cameras on it let's say at 45 degrees so it's about halfway between the pole and the equate on either side align those cameras with some sort of pole star either side of it and spin that ball and show me how you can make star trails you absolutely cannot do it the very example of a star trail means if if you are on the ball with your camera and you're aligned to the north as the ball is spinning it is creating this 8000 mile big loop and you don't see that in star trails all you see is the stars themselves moving and that proves nothing about the shape of the earth beneath our feet you feel no motion we've got sensitive instruments that detect their motion there is absolutely nothing that has proved motion of the earth and looking up at the lights in the ceiling does not prove the motion of the earth now if you can give me an example where you can put a camera on a ball and align it at a light in the distance and show all the other lights around it also moving in perfect circles as it's moving 65 times faster lengthwise linearly because we're orbiting the sun don't forget the orbit of the sun it's what negates the star trails in the first place if you're going 65 times faster one direction and trying to focus on a fixed point in the distance all the other lights are going to leave lengthy long star trails you won't get that from your spinning space book okay so that was a lot in there so the question that the information that I gave in graphical form is to sort of help you try and understand it because people like you the flat earthers they seem to have trouble thinking in three dimensions and maybe that's you know something about you that you know you grew up with but you seem to have problems putting these things into perspective so they're to help you understand how they are it's like a diagram of an engine like you can say hey it's a picture of an engine that can't possibly work an engine still works and that's and what I have presented is the actual observations from real life I can't bring these observations in because I can't drag the moon and the stars into the room so this is just a silly tactic to make it sound like oh if you put anything on paper it's not real anymore you know that that's the thing yeah get me a real star now if you put a camera on a ball and spin it and have a light there it will spin if it is far enough away what we're talking about here is parallax parallax is important so basically that means the further away something is the less it moves and and that you like to throw out these these really big numbers these oh 8000 you know so what we have to address here and as far as your opening is concerned with you throughout these massive speed numbers is that the the earth's only rotating at 15 degrees per hour that's the level of the rotation so the speed doesn't really matter because the there's something called inertial frames of reference if you're in an inertial frame of reference with a lot of other things like you're aboard a plane the reason why you don't get dragged to the back of the plane is because you and the air and everything in the plane is moving at the same momentum all at the same time and this is a child can understand this it's the reason why once you get up to speed in a race car you don't feel the speed anymore if you've ever been on a high velocity train you don't feel the speed anymore the reason why little little rossin is his you know bike girls bike or whatever he had um basically the reason why you're feeling the wind is because you are an inertial frame of reference and the air is in a different one it is stationary and that's why you feel the wind but you only feel in the same inertial frame of reference acceleration deceleration and changes in vector or changes in vector essentially so when you move when you turn or when you go up or down like a jet is traveling really fast but it's not like once it's up to speed you can't you can't walk around you can throw a ball up in the air aboard a plane why is that ross why can you throw the ball up in the air and catch it on the plane why doesn't it slide backwards you're really wafting all over the place here that's your point why can't i throw a ball up in the plane that was addressing your point ross if i'm wafting all over the place it's because you're all over okay you asked me the question i'm trying to answer you thank you okay why can't you throw a ball up in a plane because the plane has a roof if you throw a ball up it's going to hit the roof and it's going to come back down if you plane did not have a roof do you that if you threw the ball up it's going to fall straight back down i don't think so mark you seem to think that the whole earth is enclosed in something like an airplane roof or something so when you throw a ball up that hits the roof does it did i just hit the roof if you're in a plane how high is the roof in a plane it's the same high as a ceiling ross you walk around in a plane what are you talking about a plane your example an error have you ever been aboard an airplane five miles per hour and i threw a ball up 50 meters in the air do you think i didn't say 50 meters i didn't say i didn't say 50 meters tiny tiny little example a meter ross inside and an enclosed capsule of a pressurized airplane and comparing them to the to the same example i've been on the outside surface of a spinning space ball with no protective outside cover hurtlings through a vacuum you know it's because no it's because hey no name calling ross try and have some decorum mate like seriously to try and imagine basically the air on the earth is in the same inertial frame of reference that we are it is moving with us so is the air in the plane it doesn't matter if there is a cover on it or not that is all in the same ross please i'm not able to hear you guys if there's speaking over each other so i do want to give mark maybe another minute and then we'll kick it back over to you flatter gauzy but go ahead mark yeah sure so it doesn't matter what the container is because i'm not hitting the container i'm not throwing it up 50 meters it doesn't matter what ought to happen if your idea of that that um physics is correct is that when i throw the ball up in an aeroplane it should move back with the speed of the aeroplane but it doesn't and the reason why is because of momentum that ball in the inertial frame of reference has the same momentum going forward that i do so it acts as if it is stationary as if i am stationary and that's why you don't feel speed only changes in vector acceleration deceleration and turning um if you want to ask how it does that go for it you know you had a question okay thank you mark for finally finishing up and saying how when we're inside an enclosed pressurized capsule where all the air is getting pushed forward with the momentum of the plane because the plane has a rear has walls and it has a ceiling so all the air is getting pushed forward with it but you're trying to compare this inside an enclosed capsule to being in the outside of a spinning spaceball in a vacuum which has no container so that is why i'm asking you how does the air move with the earth inside the universe size vacuum and you have got no answer for that you have to put it all inside a pressurized capsule and assume it's not moving when we know for a fact that the plane itself actually is moving 500 miles per hour and the earth itself moves zero beneath it the whole time whether towards the east or the west every single plane factors in zero speed of the earth and yes i did throw in all those big figures in my description in my opening statement because these are your figures mate they're your figures when i bring them to you you get scared of them because they're your belief that i'm dunking and saying there is zero motion there is zero speed the earth doesn't move the plane moves the air moves when it's windy when it's not windy the air is still and yet you're supposed to be trying to tell us that for perfectly still air it is moving a thousand miles per hour and gradually getting faster and faster the higher it goes just to keep up the illusion of being perfectly still and then if we've got a five mile per hour wind from the west oh it's going a thousand and thirty miles per hour if it's five miles from the east oh it's a thousand forty five miles per hour all these ridiculous things when it would just be a five mile per hour wind it's simple i'll come straight as it says the simple explanation with the least amount of assumptions is the correct one and yet you're assuming massive massive motions and that's just the spin we haven't started talking about the orbit at 66 000 miles an hour or the speed of the sun which all these things must be doing all at once which was my very last point saying well the thing falling at 10 meters per second squared just falls at 10 meters per second squared it is not going sideways unfathomable speeds in order to create the illusion of just dropping straight down and yet you are inventing these false scenarios where everything does what you think it does because you want to believe in your spinning spaceform model okay that was a lot of gish gala so the when you basically say that the the plane is pressurized guess what the earth is pressurized as well hey funny that the earth is pressurized as well we have pressure so the whole idea that the plane is different because it's pressurized guess what atmosphere we keep that at yes earth atmosphere the pressure no we have at sea level so this whole idea that says well the plane's pressurized the earth's pressurized funny that that's awesome ross the whole idea and you say there's no container and stuff yeah gravity acts as a container pulling down the molecules and creating that pressure yeah if i could just continue and creating that pressure and i can sort of show you how that that that works um we do some atmosphere yeah thanks ross thanks for the right first mate um we we can explain that and we can um we do lose some atmosphere to space it's called atmospheric escape um and we do have that happening now the plane is in the inertial reference frame and so is the earth so um you know you sort of say oh you're scared of big i'm not scared of the big numbers they exist they're just hey hey you have gravity what about gravity tell me how the atmosphere is moving through the back here can you not interrupt me ross do you have any sense you know time to answer a question i do want to give them a chance just like we gave you about roughly two minutes i want to give mark yeah 60 seconds like him to answer the question and not let me just we'll give you a chance to ask those questions but i just want to give them that last 60 seconds or so so it's roughly equal yeah he's just scared yeah so so basically he's scared of big numbers i'm not i'm fine with big numbers i you know i know that their big numbers exist you're the one that's scared of the big numbers you think from personal incredulity if it's a big number it can't possibly exist well guess what the universe is measured in big numbers that's a fact get over it deal with it however you would like and nobody on the scientific side is scared of big numbers we're the ones crunching those numbers and putting them into practice so i don't know why you would say that it just seems like a very petulant childish outburst um occum's razor doesn't say the simplest explanation is always the correct one it is a much more complex kind of calculation it basically says do not multiply entities when searching for explanations that is to keep things simple as possible when searching for explanations the problem is the flat earth for this thing is simple but you address none of the other problems that arise from flat earth and by the way 10 meters per second is not how fast it's dropping down the acceleration is 10 meters per second per second so you don't know what you're talking about when you're talking about the force of gravity and i noticed that you're steering right away from the things that i brought up maybe we can take this opportunity for you to explain how a lunar eclipse happens and why we only see shadows on the the moon of the earth that are curved maybe you can explain that go for it look at you look at you just running away from the actual topic at hand and changing the top as quickly as you can just to avoid answering it we're still talking about how you can have pressurized there inside a capsule of the aeroplane which makes perfect sense but you cannot have pressurized there inside a vacuum without the container and you refuse to answer that and then you just get up onto the next topic because you know you've got nothing you cannot have a pressurized atmosphere on anything inside of a vacuum the very definition of a vacuum means it sucked out all of the pressure so to have pressure a pressurized atmosphere indicates first and foremost that the earth must not be in a vacuum it has to be contained in some manner just as the air inside the aeroplane is contained in some physical manner so if you want to get up and off to the next subject and talk about the moon that's just fine let's talk about the moon we can see when the moon is at a half phase that we just had a full moon last night for those people who are lunar aware that's my lunar calendar which I always keep track of the moon throughout the year when the moon is at half phase what do we see on it it's shadow oh you can never have a straight shadow on the moon caused by a curved surface but the the shadow on the moon caused by in it during a lunar eclipse is not from the earth and that is easily proven by the fact that we have the salinellian eclipse we can clearly see the shadows coming from the complete opposite way that there's no possible way that the sun has descended down into the underworld as you heal us like to believe it does every night it's going down beneath us in the underworld and it's shining its light up on the earth onto the moon when we can see the sun and moon at the same time they hit the salinellian eclipse absolutely destroys the fact that it could possibly be the shadow from the earth causing a lunar eclipse if you took a straight piece of paper a book and you had a ball on the ground and you took it out in the sunlight and you cast the shadow on that ball with your book you will get a curved shadow the shadow comes from the shape of the object it's been cast upon not cast by the object casting the shadow so to even assume that that it's the earth's shadow and it has to be curved and that for it therefore proves earth is a ball is or utter nonsense it's not even a curved shadow from the earth it can be anything that's casting the shadow and as we've proven with the salinellian eclipse it is something else and we know this other thing is what we call the dark moon or rahu it's another often called the dark sun it's another object that hangs around the sun and we don't see it for this very same reason we never ever see a new moon it is basically um that was the word for exposure it's too bright near the sun so you don't see it in very rare circumstances you might catch a glimpse of this thing when it's very hazy and it will look like we've got two suns that is the thing which comes between the sun and the moon to cause a lunar eclipse and mainstream scientists readily admit that this dark sun as they sometimes call it actually exists so for you to think that we've got no explanation for eclipses that crews are on a spinning spaceball hurtland through space that millions of miles an hour in a vacuum with no container uh yeah try harder mark try harder yeah double sun that's great i love it um so the the pressurized atmospheres kept there by gravity as i said multiple times so your highlight the above mark has no answer i do have an answer so if the earth had a container as you claimed you made a claim there that the earth has a container over it what ought to happen according to the second laws of of uh of uh fervid endemics is that the air should equalize to become the same pressure light in an aeroplane or like in any other container it would not have a pressure gradient going up from high pressure at the bottom to low pressure at the top and this is where you have absolutely proven yourself wrong because if there was a physical container there the air would equalize and all become the same pressure but we know that going up a mountain the air becomes thinner it becomes less pressurized people have to take oxygen oxygen up ever is you are absolutely wrong and you've just shown that by claiming that there is a container around the earth because if that was there all of the air would be like excuse me excuse me would equalize now that is this is the same thing you're claiming where the air should go out to space it should equalize yes but gravity is holding it down and if there was a container all of that air would equalize which is exactly your argument for why the air should go out to space so congratulations for proving yourself absolutely wrong now when you talk about phases of the moon phases of the moon is not no no no you don't i'm addressing your point ross control yourself well i'm just asking you know if you want to jump to another subject again and that's fine we can go back to the moon you can't gish gallop and then try to i'm addressing what they said there's two we people aren't able to hear either of you if both of your speakers so i do want to chop it into pieces so we'll give a chance to iron horse to respond and then we'll come back to you mark look he brought up every single one of these subjects oh are you saying are you saying that you want more time to respond to other stuff that you mentioned yeah he brought up the pressure i contained and he brought up with tonight and i talk should i talk ross i don't want to hunt yeah iron horse just give me a second is i'll give you maybe another 60 seconds mark and then i've got to get over to iron horse yeah what i'm pointing out is that ross is gish galloping and then when i try to address his point he's saying no no no we want to do one at a time this is a tactic by him to stop me from addressing his points and then going oh we can come back to the moon mark it's a different you brought it up just 60 seconds it's like he was it was only 55 seconds left like yeah okay so phases of the moon is not an eclipse and we know it's not a lunar eclipse to bring up phases of the moon phases of the moon of course by the orientation of the sun we know this that's not even an argument so you're completely wrong completely ignorant about astronomy you've got no idea what you're talking about phases of the moon is not a lunar eclipse and we can we can practice the sun know when they'll happen they're not lunar eclipses you're absolutely wrong the cell and cell and alien eclipse when it appears to be on the horizon um and you brought this up as well ross um that is refraction causing it to look like it is higher than it actually is and it just perfectly simple refraction easy done um uh anything casting a shadow on the moon what is the anything you can't just say anything could be casting a shadow on the moon what is it don't don't run away and say well it could be anything what is it and it's hilarious that you think there's a second sun i mean that's just that's just precious where is your second sun where are your photographs of the second sun we've got solar filters let's take photographs of this mystical second sun that hangs out somehow evading all attempts to capture it ross maybe you can do some magic to capture it in a photo sometime wow see you can't just stick to one topic which is the problem you want to just keep gish gapping all over the place whereas if we were going to talk about the pressure of the air which you began with i think we could stick to that deal of it and then we can start talking about the moon so when we're talking about air pressure gradient of course that can happen on the stationary plane of earth because the stationary plane of earth is the only physical plane in existence therefore everything that is physical exists here on this plane which makes all of our gases exist here and they exist in accordance with density the various densities of the gas will present prevent present their own pressure gradient just as much as if you go underwater it's the volume of water above you pressing down that creates a pressure gradient so as we get higher in the air there will be less of it above us pressing down on us and they've taken samples of air from places like mount Everest and found it's exactly the same air as this down here there's just less of it pressing down on us and that is of course why water itself will boil at a lower temperature at that height it'll boil at about 93 degrees centigrade then it will at sea level at 100 degrees centigrade and then if you go even further deeper underground it has to get hotter and hotter before it starts to boil it's simply a matter of pressure which comes from natural density and buoyancy which everything physical this whole physical realm exists because of the pressure so if we went to particularly high like the height of the airplane for example the reason it's pressurized that one atmosphere or actually slightly less can we address that before moving onwards if that's what ross wants to do because now he's going to air that's what i'm doing mark if you don't mind like we're on the pressure gradient and i'd like to address if we're doing one thing and then the reason why that airplane is pressurized as it is is because we function better at that pressure and if the airplane wasn't pressurized we need oxygen masks because we're not getting enough pressure to breathe properly so the whole point of having pressure on the physical plane at the bottom of the name universe is how we exist how life exists life doesn't exist anywhere else you keep looking at us life existing in other places and we've stick to one topic if that's what you're doing this is the topic mark that you think that outer space is teeming with don't that's that's outer space you're going on to something else yeah hold on i do to be fair i i do be fair i do have to give the equal time so we can give you maybe another maybe 60 seconds iron horse and then we can get back to you mark and please mute the mutant if you can't shut up if we assume gaseous giants inside the vacuum space we assume other planets then all these things have to have their own pressure as well but we don't have to assume that at all on the stationary plane or if we have the one pressure gradient and that's why humans need to have it to exist here on earth and that is why an airplane at five miles of light needs to be pressurized or we can't breathe properly so the very fact you think that gravity is what holds the atmosphere to the earth in a vacuum just proves you've got no clarity of thought whatsoever it can't exist you have to have the stationary plane at the bottom of everything in order for density and an atmosphere to even exist in the first place and that's what this argument is all about you seem to think that the flat earth is in outer space or something looking at some of your cartoon pictures of it it's not we're at the base of the universe and it's only physical plane of existence all right okay good remark okay so this is this is what ross is doing is basically gish galloping and then when i try and address his points he says no no only one at a time so he's brought up you know there's pressure planes life on other planets base of the universe in an attempt to get stuff out so i can't address it so we're going through all of the things that he said yeah ross shut up shut up like cover your shove your beard in your mouth or something just shut up so the pressure of the air and the pressure gradient i don't know what a plane of existence is you know that's something ross will have to you know yeah ross shut up i'm huge yeah so this is the thing yeah just mute him he's he's got no self control so the den he refuted himself by basically saying that the air up the top is the same as the air down the bottom how can the density be the same because density is mass within space how is the density the same of the air at the top and the bottom yet density is causing the air to be more pressurized down the bottom ross went and refuted himself because if the density is the same of that air then it should not have anything to do with wise more is at the bottom than at the top but ross doesn't think about this he just refutes himself without actually thinking about it um so you've got this idea of density and and um that doesn't explain why for instance if you drop a rubber ball and a steel ball bearing they both hit the ground at the same time that's exactly what happens and density does not explain that because the ball bearing is much more dense than a rubber ball ross has got no explanation for this he just wants to say oh well the air is the same but for some reason this air down the bottom just likes being there just just wants to be there he refutes himself um the reason why it's more dense down the bottom is because gravity pulls on the air molecules forcing them into a contained space that contains space exerts pressure that forces some of the molecules out and so it makes a gradient going up um and ross also wants you to think for some reason i don't know why maybe because of his plane of existence or something that physics works differently in different places for some unknown reason that for some reason in a plane there's no gradient but on earth suddenly there is for some reason like just just why not why not in two minutes i give you another minute but then we'd have to give iron horse sure the same three minutes sure yeah i live on other planets we haven't really been to other planets so we don't really know for sure where life is i don't know why he went on to that um the planets have different pressures yes they do because they have different masses what you're looking for is gravitational attraction of mass not density density doesn't matter mass does you've got it all right well that's also another great load of bollocks there thank you very much mark for bringing up the example of the rubber ball and the steel ball why they hit the earth at the same speed when they dropped from a great height and it's the fact that they're both exactly having the same amount of air resistance so density is actually the thing because the density of the air which is the resistance factor because both of them are balls they have the same resistance in the air as they do then if they hit to the water then gravity itself gets very very choosy doesn't it it says oh come down to me steel ball i love you i want you come to me but gravity says i love you rubber ball you stay up there and float on the surface and then of course you feel yourself say yeah by those density it's been density the whole time of course it's the density of the objects and the resistance factor of the medium and that's exactly what we're talking about the whole time i mean you you carried on with so much crap there that i even lost my train of thought like we're talking about the density of air the density is a requirement of the pressure as well so of course as you go higher the pressure is less so the air itself becomes less dense but we also have a range of different gases i don't know if you've ever heard of this thing called the the periodic table of elements these these elements are what makes up the physical reality that we exist upon and the atmosphere is teeming with a range of different gaseous elements and they each have their own different molecular weight so you will find that once you reach a certain height which is around this 12 to 14 mile high mark there is no air whatsoever that is able to be breathed in fact if you went up there with camera you will see that even in broad daylight it's pitch darkness and this is the place where high altitude pilots are going to say oh we've reached the edge of space because there's no light up there it's gone pitch black why hasn't it it's because the various elements of our atmosphere are what are ionized by the power coming from the sun to create daylight in the very first place if that wasn't the case then there would be no such thing as night even on your spinning space ball because the whole universe would be teeming with light but the fact that we know what this has got to do with gravity is going to light these gaseous elements again is this how we're going to operate it's close to your uh and i can give you about another 20 seconds to have it be equal with marks and then we've got to kick it back over to mark look i don't mind doing either way i don't mind if he talks and then i address every point or whether we do it point by point i just want to be consistent that's all right that's what i was doing is being consistent you can say last time yeah thanks mark maybe two minutes and 20 seconds and such a lovely i can give iron if he wants another 20 seconds you got it iron otherwise we'll kick it over to mark right now thank you thank you james i'd appreciate being able to finish my point before being rudely interrupted is that the fact that light exists is a result of the sun stimulating or ionizing the various elements of the atmosphere to give us daylight and that's why we have day and night you can't have that in your spinning space ball model because you think that the whole universe is teeming with light and yet that itself proves that it wouldn't be back at night you couldn't have it thanks yeah yeah i just hate being interrupted it's just it's totally fair enough you'll do it over to mark yeah so so this is the thing ross claims to want to do point by point and then when it suits his needs he'll go multiple points because that's what he does he's dishonest and that's just what he's like so well done you you claim you want to do point by point oh what a lovely guy look at that what a lovely lovely guy okay so air resistance for balls no it's got nothing to do with air resistance we can do the same thing in a vacuum chamber whoops whoops vacuum chamber ross forgot about that did we so no air resistance in a vacuum chamber mate so whoops oh dear and they fall at exactly the same speed well there's a little bit of air resistance on balls but in a vacuum chamber both the rubber and the steel ball fall at exactly the same speed why is that you can't explain it because it's not air resistance so nice nice crap that you just pulled from your ass but that is not the reason and if we can prove that um so resistance against mediums you said when when it hits water then one will go down and one won't correct and that is because of the mass of them and the surface area of the the water you have surface tension which causes a resistance to certain things if there is enough weight and you used you slipped up and used the word weight yourself because weight is dependent on uh oh mass which is gravity so the more mass something has the heavier it is and so but no matter how big it is it still falls at the same rate and the reason why is because of Newton's laws something will remain at rest until acted on by another force and and once that object is in motion it will conserve its momentum so it will keep going until acted on by a different force and you would know this if you had any kind of education whatsoever but what it basically means is the big heavier something is the more mass it has the more force is required to enable it to move so basically when gravity affects something the bigger it is the more it attracts it but the harder it is to make it move so those two forces cancel each other out and everything drops at the same rate it's not air resistance that is just so ignorant i don't know how to you know even pass that one let's do it in a do it in a vacuum chamber um three minutes if you'd like mark do you want to go for another minute but then we the same thing applies okay maybe three minutes is good because that way we won't keep you shouting from subjects subject you know only you're doing that ross the the whole idea that because there's stars in the sky it can't be dark so you want another minute is just ridiculous like they're not bright enough for you to see by you can still have like very small lights and that can still be dark like if a candle is a long way away you can see the light but it's still dark so for some reason ross wants you to think that the laws of physics in outer space suddenly change for some reason it's not the sunlight ionizing the atmosphere that you can see by it's your eyes accepting the sunlight reflected off objects that provide us with vision it it's the whole idea that somehow atmosphere has to be ionized for your eyes to see is just what what what breathing mechanism does your eyes have ross that's taking in this ionized atmosphere is that a question yes it's a question i'm not muted no what breathing mechanism do my eyes have to see that that's such the most sensible question i've ever been asked in my life mark um i failed to see anything logical behind it but the breathing mechanism i guess well it's their moist and so the osmosis of atmospheric gases must be breathing their light in order to see it is that what you're really trying to say i it escapes me that the logic behind even such a silly question in the first place we see light because of the ionization it's exactly like if we had a fluorescent light bulb the gases in that are what fluoresce when they're stimulated by some sort of electrical force and that is what the sun is it is some sort of electrical force that is stimulating the atmospheric gases to turn them into an open air light bulb you can see before dawn and after dust how the atmosphere slowly fades or comes into gets brighter and brighter but you don't see a shadow cast by this particular light until you've actually got the sun itself which is another plasma ball of light which is of course again it's part of the whole model and the scale of which it exists at and that's why when scientists look at it they'll say well um oh it's a hydrogen fusing into helium like it's a big fusion ball but that's actually just seeing the chemical reaction of what we're actually witnessing when we see the light source hitting the thermo above us we're just seeing this plasma ball of light and I think that in itself is probably a great argument because on the globe model when we're looking at the sun at midday we're supposed to assume then that the terminator line of the sun lighting the earth is over this massive big curve it's four thousand miles of drop either side of us and on a linear scale if you'd have a little bit about six thousand two hundred and fifty miles away so you're supposed to think that at sunrise and sunset either side of you is going to be six thousand two hundred and fifty miles away either side with four thousand miles of drop while at midday it's directly above you and yet when we see the sun at midday and we see the horizon either side of us it's barely three or four miles either side of us and you're supposed to think that when you're seeing it setting then it's over four thousand miles of drop away six thousand two hundred and fifty miles away and yet in reality it's only just three or four miles how is that at all possible the only way it can be possible is when we use perspective and we see that we are on a flat earth and we see the sun itself is as much as six thousand two hundred and fifty miles away and by that point the ball of plasma that it is casting through the firmament is starting to be obscured by convergence the fact that this horizon has risen up to eye level and that's what it always does convergence always means that what is in front of you converges up to eye level and what is above you converges down to eye level and that is perspective 101 that's three minutes we'll kick it over to Mark for three minutes yeah so the the light bulb thing like ionizing the atmosphere like a light bulb the light bulb produces light but then it goes into your eyes like it's not it's not any kind of ionization of the atmosphere producing like it's just reflected reflected light it's you know I don't know where he gets this this absolute tripe from um so I don't know what he's talking about because if it ionizes the atmosphere and that's what causes you to see instead of light instead of light then somehow you would have to get that ionized atmosphere into your eyes I don't know what he's talking about um the sun is hydrogen fusing into helium we've done fusion experiments they're proceeding to progress um we've actually gained energy out of the latest fusion experiments if you kept up with science so we're kind of demonstrating that is possible and I mean it's just the sun it's plasma um so so the the whole thing is he's like oh there's the firmament why don't you demonstrate this like you make all these claims like these random claims and then you refuse to demonstrate any of them get some firmament find some firmament demonstrate that the firmament exists he won't do it he'll just throw it out claim it's there empty claim I don't know where he gets 4000 miles of drop from 6000 miles like what what is that I don't know where he got that from like that is fully a number that is just pulled out of nowhere um the the sun is um the whole idea of perspective is what's causing the sunrise and sunset is absolutely ridiculous like and I do notice I do notice he hasn't answered any of my questions he wants to remain firmly on his own and not get to my ones so where is the um circumpolar south or constellations southwards from is it southwards from Africa is it southwards from Australia or is it southwards from South America that's a question for you right yeah so well because you like to just get all over the place those numbers of 4000 miles of drop and 6250 miles of curvature come from your spinning spaceball which has the circumference that Eritosten is measured from shadows of sticks that says it's just approximately 25 000 miles around so if you have 25 000 you get 12 500 you have that again you got 6250 you get a diameter of 8 000 miles so half of that is 4 000 miles so the drop that you were saying from midday means that the sunrise spot is 4 000 miles of drop at 6250 miles it comes from your numbers not mine I don't believe that we're on a spinning spaceball at all so if I use your numbers and they confuse you then I I make no apology for that because I use them to mock you because I think they are absolutely ridiculous um so now you're talking about what was your last question again that the stars in the south well how do we look at the stars in the north in the first place we face north and we look upwards and we see them in the north and so if we then turn around and look the other way it's just like you know if I'll ask you what's your left hand what's my right hand and you'll say no no that's my left that's my right it's you just turned around look the other way so of course they're going to look like they're going the other way that's all there is to it and the fact that we know then for a fact all the celestials the stars the sun and the moon they rise in the east they set in the west so they are going in that same direction around Polaris the whole time and the people in South America and South Africa who are saying the same constellations guess what they say at the daytime this same sun guess what they're looking at when they look at the moon this same moon now because the stars as we know as part of our sky clock they're going around the sidereal day which is 23 hours 56 minutes and four seconds slightly that four minutes faster than the sun which is how we measure a year in the first place and of course at their local night time when they're looking up facing the other way they're going to see the same stars that we will see at our local night time in our local time zone how hard is that to even comprehend okay um so so this whole of 4 000 miles drop as i said it's not our calculations it's not our calculations at all you've just pulled the number to some side it's not out yeah thank you i'll just continue um our actual thing of the abstracted distances a equals the square root of r plus h squared minus r squared so that's actually the correct calculation it's not as easy as just hey and it all depends on the height that you're at it all depends on height so your whole idea of oh well this is what it is absolutely it's not our numbers at all it's flat earth com full worry is what it is um so the celestial southern constellations you never answered my question about that if you can see and i can see the flat earth uh map behind you which is incredibly convenient if you look south from australia you're looking up towards the top left of the map if you're looking south from south america you're looking down the bottom of the map and if you're looking south from africa you're looking to the top right so you're basically saying that the people look south on that map and they see the same stars that's your argument like if you look at that and do turn around and have a look at it that people facing south on those three points looking in three different directions are all looking at the same stars at the same time you need to get your head checked because there is no way that people standing with their backs to one another are going to look and see the same things so i don't know why yeah yeah look yeah there you go oh oh it's it's rotating around is it and they all see it at the same time do they why do they all see the same stars at the same time they are looking up and they don't see the same stars at the same time mark don't be dishonest at least try and be honest about what you're trying to rant and rave about here we look up so we're looking this way to see the stars we might be facing southwards but we're looking up so we're not looking out nobody looks out the horizon is out nobody looks to the horizon to see the stars you look up into the sky to see the stars and we do not see them at the same time we have this thing called time zones and that is why this thing here is actually a time and date calculator and if it had the original arm going around it it would show you say if it's midday here in Australia it will be midnight over here on the west of south america over there that's how it works so this is actually proof and and you can use it it's a scientific calculator for time and the fact that we have times it's exactly what's been put on the the app that's been put out by blue water I believe it's called something like the time moon sun and zodiac calculator it shows actual real-time physical properties of the sun and I think that was the one thing where you were having serious troubles was understanding how much you can put this much light on on the earth at one time but not in the north and it's a possibility that the map isn't actually accurate I mean we can't claim it to be 100% accurate it's the closest we've got but how many thousands and thousands of different globe maps have we been shown throughout the centuries and not a single one of them agrees with one another so you know it's just an example of what we think the earth is probably the most light but we definitely do not see the same stars at the same time so here we see Ross back away from his own model oh it's completely accurate no it's not so accurate anymore is it ladies and gentlemen which is which is hilarious now I'm just going to share my screen quickly just to point out how Ross is 100 lying to you which is unfortunate for him so if I could just share my screen briefly crystal clear crystal clear fantastic thank you so if we look at this time lapse of the southern celestial poles this is claiming and you can see the trees and the sort of the hills in the background here this is Ross claiming you're looking directly up this is Ross lying again because this is not directly up there is no way this is directly up what part of directly up is this Ross is lying to you and this is what he's been doing all night thank you James I just wanted to make that crystal clear and now he's claiming well it's not accurate it's not accurate if we're looking at that that perspective there should be and and you know you can check it yourself people in South South Africa see exactly the same thing people in South America see exactly the same thing they're the same constellations the same stars and on the same nights um you know what is causing that Ross claims they're looking up not out that just proves him wrong he is a hundred percent wrong and that proves it um and so I know you get away from his model and sort of say oh no but it's not accurate so I can I can sort of excuse these these nonsense logical leaps and irrational things that I believe well tough Ross you've got a model when it doesn't work it's not just not a bit accurate it's not accurate at all it doesn't have any accuracy whatsoever did you take those that film yourself no you didn't you have been shown something which anybody could have put that false uh front in front of it to show that that's what's happening it's easy enough to do you can easily use a split screen to show that's the case I've never met anybody who's taken their own Southern constellation star trails and proven that they're doing it from a single point and watching you you can watch actually you could see it yourself in your own presentation that each of those star trails they move a little bit and then all of a sudden it just seems to jump and the whole thing twists a bit while they leave the foreground at the front making it look as though that's the case that's going on but when we look at the ones from the north we can see that if they leave the camera open for long enough the stars make pretty well a good half circle and that's something in itself is quite bizarre because you're not exactly at the very north pole but what what happened to this circumference of the earth you know and that's exactly you know you keep trying to deny your own circumference of the earth which is what I said it's if the radius is 4 000 miles that is the amount of drop it is every 90 degrees from upright to other side that's 4 000 miles of drop that is the measurements of the earth given to us so if you're a halfway point and you're spinning around but you've got your camera aligned at this very far distant point then the star trails would be actually very very oblate looking or very um what's the other word is it's not oval but it's well egg shaped it had somehow been very egg shaped because of this circumference of the earth and you are still in absolute denial of the orbital speed the orbital speed at 66600 miles per hour is 65 times greater than the singular 1040 mile per hour speed that you're rotating at so why are you not seeing any of this sideways motion 65 times greater it comes back to your own arguments destroy themselves because all you're really ever doing is showing that the earth itself has to be stationary and all you are saying is your own personal subjective view of the stars themselves moving around a center point we'll kick it back over to mark for three minutes oh thank you james um so yeah so like the whole idea that that oh well you didn't take it yourself and i've never met anybody that's taken this well he can take it if he wants to i mean it's it's fully like readily available it's the sky from australia um that the fact that i didn't take it myself this is moving the goalposts as you know ross and other flat ursas there's love to do they just move the goalposts say hey you didn't take that you weren't there you'd people all over the world everywhere and you can see this yourself it's not something that if you set up a timelapse camera you can see it yourself on a cloudless night it's not something that anyone's trying to hide from you um but you know ross's you know i mean he should have his tinfoil hat and everything so so we don't get whatever it is um so this half this this idea of the the diameter of the earth nobody nobody denied the diameter of the oh you want to deny nobody's denying it and to say it's 6 000 miles you can tell that ross has been listening to flat earthers in america because we're talking in kilometers in australia so you know that he's gotten he's gone to some website or some stupid youtube video and gotten the wrong measurements as the earth is actually 40 000 kilometers in diameter ross it's not so i do apologize yeah yeah so conference i'm sorry it's 40 000 kilometers not 6 000 miles i i don't know where you got that number from i would say america because that's where they're talking miles and you don't thank you ross thank you you can be quiet now that's where they talk in miles not in australia so you know he's not getting this information from his own sources he's going to america to get the miles that he's talking in um the orbital speed i've already explained that and he sort of said hey the earth's rotating this amount of speed so therefore the star trail should be going faster it's nonsense the earth rotates at 15 degrees per hour which is exactly the same rate we see the star trails move in funny that it matches up perfectly with the globe model because those stars are rotating at 50 degrees 15 degrees per hour and throwing out large numbers like oh this massive speed as i've already explained inertial reference excuse me inertial reference frame excuse me inertial reference frames you do not feel speed you only feel changes in velocity and direction that's all you feel and and i've explained why that is so don't come to me with your nonsense about how they should move faster when the earth is only claimed to be rotating at 15 degrees per hour so it doesn't orbit while it's rotating it's rotating at 15 degrees per hour then well obviously you can't talk about the orbital speed because it's only going one degree per day but that also means you know i've wrote down the figures before it's that's a phenomenal speed or distance to be going in a single day if i put it in the kilometers or miles makes no difference if if we're talking a 40 000 mile circumference as you like to think of it to be 40 000 kilometer yeah then if we'd converted that to miles it's still 25 000 miles which is slightly less than 24 000 or slightly more than 24 000 stop interrupting my come on i can do my own maths here so if we divided that into quarters then that gives an 8 000 mile diameter and a 4 000 mile radius and so if you're at the top of the earth looking at the sun at midday then the terminator line at 90 degrees from that so it's a quarter of the earth away is going to be in rounded figures 6 250 miles of circumferential difference distance and 4 000 miles of drop it's just simple mathematics you can't dispute now the fact is here in australia you've probably seen it yourself australia is not the southern pole we are not looking out and downwards every night of the year to be looking outwards we see the southern cross by standing in the same spot every evening facing southwards looking up and we see the southern cross every night of the year now if this spinning space ball is going around the sun once per year the sun in the middle then what we're looking at night time on one side it's going to be looking over there six months later night time is looking out over there we should be seeing completely different stars not the same exact constellations so you are basically saying that not only is the solar system the earth and the wandering stars here the eccentric but the entire galaxy that we're looking at must be also going around the sun with us at the same time which is absolutely ludicrous because the distances that you give to these stars means each and every one of them must be moving exactly the right speed right angle right adjustment just to keep the same constellations in the sky every night of the year and that's what parallax means you brought up parallax before and you had no idea what it means parallax means that the stars would have to be moving very very precise different speeds and rates in order to keep up the same appearance just for us to be going around the sun all year round yeah that's uh some really weird calculations on circumference to radius there that's not actually sort of um you know how you calculate the circumference and radius the radius is actually the circumference divided by two times pi so i don't know why you would just quarter it and say hey that's the radius but it just shows the level of sort of mathematics and physics that you're operating at that you think hey if you quarter the circumference then it becomes the radius no no no not even and and try that with some circles see if it works good on you so there's a whole idea of excuse me excuse me this is my time thank you ross thank you ross my time thank you thank you for your outburst just put the beard in your mouth thank you you're finished okay once you finish your plane let's see let's go over to mark so we can finish his statement i'm quite happy as long as he's not gonna lie well shove your beard in your mouth just just address it afterwards um so rotating around the sun you said hey it can't be that the stars are so far away that when we rotate around the sun they don't appear to move to the naked eye they always seem in the same spot and he brought up the southern cross which is the crux constellation which is sort of 420 light years away which is an astronomical amount of distance so your whole idea that they should move is based upon that they are close sort of local to us which is not what the globe model says so you're just engaging in a massive straw man there um the whole idea of parallax because you don't seem to understand it is that closer objects move when you move but it takes a lot further for objects further away like think of it as you're sitting in a train there's a pole right next to the to the train and there's a building off in the distance when the train travels the pole moves through your view very fast however the building will still remain there and that is parallax and the building may not appear to move to the naked eye it is moving and we can detect that from stars so we do know we're rotating around the sun because of that parallax movement the stars closer to us we can tell them moving more than the stars further away so we've we've looked at that and and so the whole idea is ross doesn't believe the stars are far away it's an argument from incredulity he's got nothing to back that up he can't show this permanent he's got nothing to show at all just I don't believe it because I don't know I grew a beard and decided it wasn't for me that's not an argument that's just a statement of personal incredulity and I provided facts and observations we know that the earth is a globe and oblate spheroid and he sort of brings up just all of these straw man arguments and all of these silly things like you know the rotation should be faster or this should be that the facts don't care what you think it should be ross so stick to the actual facts and don't make stuff up um and and when were you thinking we're not looking outwards and upwards as I showed you're looking outwards and yes it's elevated but you claimed we're looking straight up and that's how people in Africa and South America could see the same thing which is not true because we are looking outward you can still see exactly the same thing I'm just addressing your points they're all your points ross well let's address your belief then your belief says that the ball that we live on is spinning on its axis now that actual rotation means that the parallax of everything else around us should be changing the whole time it's like if you stood on the spot and you spin around then the new things to you will move much faster than the further things from me but in actual fact that I'll still keep on moving but you are then in absolute denial of the orbital rate and the orbital rate being 65 times greater than the actual spin the rotation on our axis and it goes 365.25 rotations to go around the sun once so that means every night of the year when we're looking out at night we're looking at a different part of the galaxy surrounding us which means that six months from now we should be saying completely different stars completely different star systems completely different constellations but every night of the year I look out and I can see the southern cross now Australia why do you like I think it's on the bottom of the ball and we're clinging because of this magical gravity force thing that you love to believe in which can't exist until you got mass in the first place I won't get off top the kid the fact is night time is looking away from the sun now if you understood your own model the sun has to be in the center so three months from now I'll be looking at different constellations three months from then I'll be looking at completely different constellations yeah it has to be that way because I'm looking away from the sun which is the center the whole idea of your heliocentric belief sun worship everything goes around the sun so you're saying that all the constellations are moving with us and that is not at all what we observe it's just completely stupid yeah so the thing is that you've just refuted your own point because you mentioned that it takes 365 days to travel around the sun so that's an incredible amount of time it's not a quick you know oh this time changes so you should see the stars zip over here you've just refuted your own point and the earth rotating at 15 degrees per hour is not a rapid rotation either if you turn this ball at 15 degrees per hour guess what it'll take 24 hours to get from this marker here back to the marker it's not a rapid rotation at all so I don't know why you expect to see stars zipping around like you're sort of claiming um the crux is a circumpolar star which what it means is that it is always illuminated in the night because you are on the curve and you can see it from anywhere that that was the whole point about circumpolar stars that for some reason you completely missed they never set that's the whole point um but it'll be at a different place in the sky because don't forget that even though you're going around the sun the reason why is because the earth is rotating and sometimes the southern cross is sort of seen at evening funny that it's seen at evening in a different place lower sometimes higher sometimes the earth is moving and we can tell from where crux or the southern cross as you call it is being seen in the sky um because the earth is rotating and our star maps actually have a 360 degree orientation to them if you look up star maps they have an orientation that covers 365 360 degrees all around the earth both northern hemisphere and southern hemisphere so the whole idea that you would see completely different stars what you're assuming is that people have never seen these stars before we should be an entirely different star field why would we that is one of the silliest things i've ever heard because we're on the other side and people have seen for thousands of years and mat across the world finish yeah i'm done i just asked question why would we see different stars then then it makes no sense to be seeing the same stars all year round they'd be changing all the time unless you are as saying that the whole entire galaxy is also going around the sun it's simply not possible no if oh no if you orbited your table and you're looking away from your table are you going to be seeing the same wall that you're seeing the same time when you're on the other side of the table looking the other way no you're going to be looking out and seeing the other side of the room it's exactly the same situation if you're in a galaxy going around the sun then you must be looking a different direction to have night and that in itself is a bloody good reason why we can prove that it is the sun itself that goes around above us because it takes exactly 24 hours as we measure with a clock for the sun to appear back overhead but if we were going around the sun 365 and change spirals per day which you can't even understand the difference of that you said that day and night proves we have a year which is just ridiculous there's 365 days and nights to go around the sun if we were doing that and we're measuring time strictly by a physical mechanical clock we measure exactly 24 hours in a day every single day that would mean that the earth itself would be slightly displaced by a degree every day so that after six months that same overall clock midday would be looking away at direct in midnight and I know that you love to bring up the side burial day to try and explain this but the fact is there's 360 degrees in a clock so you cannot say that the earth is spinning 361 degrees while the clock goes 360 degrees you can't say that the clock is going 359 degrees or the earth is going 359 degrees has 360 degrees it's an exact amount of time every single day and the only way that can work is if the sun itself is going around above us at exactly 24 hours if we're going around the sun it would change or we would have to adjust our clocks by degree per day which ends up to be four minutes to prevent day and night from swapping places according to the clock so the mechanical clock actually proves the station we plane are at yeah the ignorance is overwhelming um the actual day length of earth is 23 hours 59 minutes and 59.996404 second milliseconds so it's not actually exactly 24 hours in the future once it has moved around and rotated we're going to lose time and somehow have to correct that but it's so close and we've set up our our our day to reflect on what the earth is doing not the other way around clocks don't prove anything they're just measuring time as we see it it's just so ignorant um the whole idea that stars don't change is because you're so far away from the stars what basically the further you are from something the more you have to move to see a change in it so if you're a long way from say the Eiffel Tower and it's way in the distance moving a couple of meters will not change where that Eiffel Tower is to you it doesn't seem to move at all it's exactly the same place where it was but you have moved location so if the stars are in fact that amount of light years away then the earth moving around the sun will not change where they appear to be we can still measure it with instruments but Iron Horse thinks the only instrument he has are his eyes you know that that somehow iron eyes radiation and suck them in for some weird reason that relies on a demi plane or some you know mumbo jumbo that he's making up as he goes along um the the whole idea that you say oh well it's exactly 24 hours it's not exactly 24 hours so you've just refuted yourself congratulations you've done it again you've played yourself congratulations um and I want to do because we seem to be talking about all of your kind of stuff what I want to do is get back to a couple of my questions on the flat earth I've been more than patient and and so I want to talk about these questions because I keep explaining parallax you not understanding parallax doesn't change it so what I want to ask is why does the light from the sun travel a far greater distance along the latitude than it does along the longitude why does it stop at the north pole okay well there's a great amount of little gishgallow there and again it's one question no no it's a great amount of gishgallow well don't run um can't answer I asked the question again because you've just built my head with so many ideas and now I've lost my space right actually you brought up most of them Ross so you know you thank you for that okay but I had a number of questions that I wanted to ask at the start of this one of them was one of them was you asked me a question I'll repeat it one of them was how does the light from the sun travel a far greater distance along the latitude to reach say Australia and Africa but it stops at the north pole when that is a vastly shorter distance why does it stop there okay well yeah so you were also talking about parallax and as we said that the parallax increases the more you spin on your axis and so basically it negates itself because the spinning on its axis is the only speed that you imagine you see because you see the stars moving whereas really the linear speed at 65 times greater should be more represented in the parallax of the stars especially as we are going around the sun we're going this phenomenal distance every day which would change the parallax because the stars themselves are supposed to be thousands of light years apart from one another now when you talk about the light traveling distance you're assuming that light is some sort of physical thing that's not light does not travel light happens instantaneously it's an instant thing so when the sun ionizes the gases it causes them to fluoresce it's a more of a chemical reaction than a physical one and it creates then a reaction that our eyes are able to perceive now without our eyes seeing light you can almost say that light itself doesn't even exist light is a three-way combination you've got your power source the sun you've got the reaction happening in the atmospheric gases and then you've got the receiver and so the the time that takes between the reaction and the receiver that is what we perceive as the speed of light but the light itself has happened instantaneously and it's the same as when we're looking at the stars we only see the stars fluorescing through the atmosphere at the very instant that we see them fluorescing through the atmosphere if we send a digital camera on a helium balloon up above what i call firmament b and this will become a famous in its own right eventually it's the the atmosphere where light exists the 12 to 14 mile high mark where light ceases to exist you can't see stars and that's this is a big deal you know the ancient Greeks none of these people in the past had this technology where they could send a camera up to see what's actually happening above the atmosphere for us to see the stars we have to be down here on earth looking up through the atmosphere and that's when we see the light creating the fact through the atmosphere to create the sparkly lights we see as the stars you send these balloons up and you can try and do it in a plane i don't think a plane can quite go above that height whatever 12 to 14 miles is so i can't convert everything to metric automatically in my head but it's it's pretty high you know i think we're talking about 128 000 feet or something uh no in meters i don't know anyway the point is once we get above the atmosphere you do not see stars and this is very very profound for the flat earth and for the heliocentric believers as well is that where did the stars go why can you not see them unless you are seeing them through the atmosphere all you see is the singular bright light of the sun which doesn't have a shape by that stage it's shapeless it just has this crown of thorns which as we've always known this um giver of life is to us and we do see a tiny speck of the moon and that's the only other light that we can see above that height apart from the earth itself blowing the atmosphere itself is what gives us light it's it's not something from outside in the universe that gives us light it's the atmosphere that you cannot underestimate the importance of the atmosphere in the reality stationary plane earth and time we go over to mark yeah so maybe in a few more rounds we'll go into the qna heads up on that yeah more than happy um so i just want to point out that that look look at this dish galloping this is this is what happens so we went from parallax to light to digital cameras to the height of the earth to um to to uh the atmosphere and how this is what he does and then when i answer all of his points he accuses me of dish galloping if you don't want me to go on about these points don't bring them up i'm more than happy to address them all which i will do thank you um so the parallax increases the more you spin the the eiffel tower if you spin round in a circle and your your plummeters away from the eiffel tower it doesn't move any faster it spin has nothing to do with parallax if you move a meter and you spin really fast while doing it the eiffel tower doesn't move any further or shorter it's absolute nonsense from someone that doesn't understand anything light isn't a physical thing according to ross i don't know what he thinks it is photons are physical but i don't know what he thinks is it spiritual is is it emotional is it an abstract concept of light if it's not physical what is it this is ridiculous um and he's like lightning is an instant thing that's been demonstrated incorrect again and again and again light does not travel instantaneously we know that from fiber optic cables that bring you your internet that you're currently using ross it's not an instant thing there is latency the latency of light to travel across the globe that is nonsense and everybody that uses the internet knows that so well done for lying again um firmament b was going to be famous yeah sure i'll wait for your Nobel prize ross i'll celebrate your Nobel prize on firmament b i think you're absolutely deluded um he didn't address the question why the light stops at the north pole he just made more claims about firmament and stuff i didn't hear him say anything about why the light stops at the north pole he didn't address it at all then said balloons go up and pass the atmosphere and and basically there's you can't see any stars yeah that's because of the glare of the sun it widens your pupils and you cannot see the dim lights it's glare if you filter that glare like they do with helmets or instruments or things like that you can see the stars it is that oppressing light of the sun that makes you can't see and that brings up a good question where where ross has refuted himself again because he says light is dependent on the atmosphere it ionized the atmosphere we all heard him but but he says that when you go up in a balloon the sun is shining how where does the light come from if there's no atmosphere so congratulations for refuting yourself yet again for the umpteenth time during this debate but where does it come from and again i'll repeat my question that i asked why does the light stop at the north pole which you didn't address in the slightest you just rambled on about firmament and balloons and cameras and whatever else you want the gish gallop about well it's it's basically the thing that your last conclusion then we'll go to the qna it's the things that you're accusing me of gish galloping which are the answer if you pay attention if you understood how the nature of light works and how the fact that we do have a firmament in the first place and if the firmament like i don't know if it's domed or flat but if we have to assume it probably is domed because that's just the nature because the heat from beneath the earth is what's creating the temperature and stopping it from freezing altogether and putting the entire existence into a big block of ice so the firmament itself like exists once it hits gross physical matter and so that gross physical matter when we're looking up and seeing the sun that is the sunlight that we are seeing in the firmament but because there are no noble gases in between there and this lower firmament v area that is why it is pitch black because the sun has nothing to stimulate it stimulates the noble gases beneath the firmament v and that's what gives us daylight and surrounding of that is the twilight and so because the the firmament itself is slightly dome-shaped not the severely as your head but it's certainly dome-shaped in some manner or another is that itself creates the bending of light which then will create the dark spot unlike the highlight in your head it creates the dark spot around the north pole and as the sun itself gets higher or the angle of incidence hitting the firmament that is why we get the 24 hour sunlight in the northern part of the inner part of our world because the light is hitting the dome at that angle and as it gets further either higher or further away whichever way both of them work it creates a bigger and bigger circle around us without having to change speeds by the way but it will spread the light more around the outside of the earth we live upon so that answers your question which you are struggling so much to understand once you understand the nature of light and the ionization of the atmosphere and the interaction with the dome it makes sense but because you are struggling so hard to not believe in it to try and refute it that's why you're having trouble understanding it in the first place because you don't want to believe you want to believe you live on a spinning space ball that runs through space, through nucleus. And then since we had Iron Horse start if you'd like to have the final speech you could say of three minutes you can Mark otherwise we can go straight into Q&A. Yeah so this is Iron Horse just throwing out terms and now he's sort of said oh it doesn't matter speed and there has to be noble gases now so see how it's changed from air molecules to noble gases I'm sure you know a unicorn will be involved in the next iteration that this guy comes up with the ionization of the atmosphere through the dome now let's move the goal post let's add something else that and don't look he has not demonstrated any of these things he's bringing up I asked him to demonstrate the firm and how can we know it's there no answer no clue no concept of how to even check to see whether this the silly thing that he's pulling out of nowhere is actually true he just makes claims I am presenting the observations we have how they fit with the globe model and and how we know things are so this is this is what I am doing Iron Horse is just throwing out words and terms and expecting everyone to believe it and somehow when his own head he's going to get a Nobel Prize for firmament B because apparently that's a thing even though he can't prove it can't point to it can't demonstrate it can't do anything except to throw these terms out conflate dodge basically not answer the question apparently light is instantaneous but it stops at the north pole because the speed doesn't change why why would the speed change if it's instantaneous because iron horse is not rational he's not reasonable he's not consistent he's refuted himself multiple times during this debate and he cannot get a logical working model for the silly disc that he believes in so you can go on thinking that you're on a flat earth and sure go for it you can believe whatever you want but at some point at some point it's time to put on your grown-up pants join the rest of the adults at the table and actually look at things logically and rationally without playing pretend like iron horses we're gonna jump into the q&a want to say folks as i mentioned if you didn't hear it at the very start a couple of housekeeping things we have many more juicy debates coming up so first if you haven't hit that subscribe button but also as you can see at the bottom right of the screen if you happen to have tiktok i will pin it to the top of the chat right now we are on a campaign to get a thousand followers on tiktok because then we'll be able to live stream these debates on tiktok which will be huge in terms of us expanding this neutral platform so we appreciate your support if you happen to have a tiktok as well that is pinned at the top of the chat it's also in the description box if you are watching later or if you're watching via the podcast or i should say listening want to remind you if you're listening via the podcast or watching on youtube both of our guests are linked in the description you can hear plenty more where that came from by clicking on both iron horses and mark reads links below in the description box this one first coming in from two seconds as i reload this also want to mention folks we are expanding modern day debate has a discord it is you could say generally speaking shane amanda hannah others have worked really hard to make the modern day debate discord epic so highly encourage you to check that discord out that's also linked in the description box and if you're getting anything okay thanks for your patience folks we're going to jump right into it if you didn't know if it's your first time here we read the super chats first and then we go to the standard questions if we have the like the time because sometimes we you go a little bit late so we don't always get to all the standard questions so this one coming in first andreas elda says this time of year as viewed from australia does the sun set slightly north or slightly south of due west the sun does what it does and it creates the appearance of how we see it due to perspective because we are only seeing our horizon barely five kilometers away sorry talking miles before three to four miles it's five to six kilometers away if you're lucky most of the time you're not even seeing that far at all so when you're seeing you're you're not even really seeing the sun where it is at all like i don't know if anybody wants to have a look at my channel where i go into the length it takes an hour or more to explain the way we see the sun it's very subjective we're not seeing the sun where it is at all so when you think you are looking in a specific direction you're really not like if you move the sun moves with you so how can the sun actually be in a direction how can you be looking the direction you know we've got a lot to learn when it comes to perspective that's for you ma is that for me oh yeah well see the plane is moving in its own inertial frame of reference the it's still moving with the rotation of the earth it still has that momentum from the instant it takes off the ground it adds to that momentum by accelerating and that's what you feel the acceleration you feel that acceleration then when it gets up to cruising speed you don't feel acceleration anymore nor do you feel the speed it's just like you're standing in a room sure you're a board an airplane that's moving incredibly fast but you're it's just like you're standing in a room then when you go to land yeah both the aeroplane and the earth are still moving it's just the rotation of the plane has the rotation of the earth plus the momentum it's built up from going to cruising altitude so yeah to all intents and purposes from the inertial plane of the the inertial frame of the aeroplane it's like the earth is still because it already has that momentum but what if a change of direction implies the other direction has it still got that direction and it's actually going backwards even though it's going that way against the spin is it is it actually going backwards 500 miles now faster than it's actually on 500 miles forwards because it changes direction yeah okay yeah so when it changes direction it's got the momentum of the way that the earth is spinning and then it reduces that momentum by flying against it but because the earth is still traveling exactly the same velocity or the same vector it's like it's basically going in the opposite direction relative to the inertial frame of the earth but if it stays in the same direction and didn't turn around yes it's going even faster gotcha sure yeah but if if you you're comparing it to the inertial frame of the earth it's basically the earth is still spinning and it's going against that so from the plane's inertial frame of reference it is moving against the earth and it makes perfect sense so if somebody jumped out of the aeroplane would I think we've got to stop the questions or else we'll never get going because I've got to have the last word would the earth still keep spinning beneath the person that jumped from the plane or would they continue going the speed of the plane plus the earth and not land a thousand miles to the west in an hour's time the last follow-up I can give you a iron horse and then Mark's rate that we got over the next one so go ahead Mark a person that jumps from the plane still has the momentum from that plane they won't suddenly like zip off away and that's not what we see they'll basically fall now they still have air resistance as does the plane so they will slow to not have that forward momentum but if you know skydiving at all you know they'll keep that forward momentum of the plane until that air resistance lowers and they just drop straight down but all of that's very well observed I'm glad I'm here from an expert that's awesome this one coming in from you two certainly have chemistry as I don't ask you don't ask them like why do you ask a question and then say oh yeah it's just wow this one from commercial sound and video says mark 500 miles on a globe requires a 30 mile drop do commercial airplanes dive a half mile per minute at level cruise yes or no answer please and thanks uh yeah so I'm not I'm not going to answer yesterday because that's a loaded question so um yes they do drop over that distance because all they do is keep the old Tom and I on level and level is perpendicular to the center of mass of the earth so if they keep that line um straight they are following the curve of the earth so yes they do you got it and this one coming in from do appreciate your question dead fish he says valiant effort in education mark heart sign Alan be free thank you says Ross how can we falsify flatter what do you mean by falsify like it's it's pretty obvious that when we look at any body of water that it is flat and level and to assume then that body of water just because it gets so far away into the distance that you can no longer see it that it starts to begin magically bending and somehow still remaining above land level um I think that falsifies it in its own right is that you just need to use a little bit of simple logic and say water level is water level and uh all our physical land is above it though yeah it's yes it's a falsifying mind that people can think the water will be a huge bulge of thousands of miles high between continents okay so yeah just falsify means that you basically come up with evidence to prove it wrong like what evidence would prove the flat earth wrong what would we find if the flat earth was wrong well bulges of water would would probably prove flat earth wrong yeah big bulges like thousands of miles high bulges between asia and america you know if we could see a 17 000 mile high bulge of water I start believing in the spinning spaceport straight away you got it this one coming in from thanks surgeon general for gifting those channel memberships folks have you just got one of those channel memberships from surgeon general don't forget to use those based and red-pilled custom modern day debate emojis so you can call your friends and chat soy boy using the emoji this one coming in from do appreciate it alan oh we got that one shane cup says so we can land a man on the moon but we can't take a single real photograph of a satellite they are all CGI there's no excuse for that nasa lies i don't have dope so yeah i think that question was for me mate um so we do have photographs of satellites but what you're talking about is a photograph of the entire satellite which we've got of them on ground but the whole idea of a satellite is you're launching it into space so why would you launch another satellite to take a photo of a satellite it doesn't make any sense what we do have though is real photographs taken from arms on like the iss that have photographs of themselves only partially because as i said we don't have the resources to launch a a rocket to take a photograph of a satellite that we're launching into space that is incredibly silly um because it's just a waste why would we do that when we can take a photo from the satellite itself that has part of the satellite in it um the the the whole idea of this is is kind of silly how do we launch satellites mate like how do we get something to go seven hundred thousand five hundred miles per hour like the iss for example well how does the rocket get to that speed and dock with it perfectly every single time when that's like about 10 times the rate of a speeding bullet how does it do that mass yeah so so when we when we have vectors in space we've got to exactly calculate the rotations of the satellites how fast that rocket is going it's called a vector now a vector excuse me can i finish please just stop your beard in your mouth again just shut up let's get more talk because he doesn't want to give an answer he just he's afraid of answers i don't know maybe i can nose as well um so so what we calculate is a vector it's the speed of an object is moving um the the three-dimensional space it is moving for and we do need to correct that vector sometimes very very harshly with with thrusters and things so we can move at i'm telling you how they're called thrusters they alter the the vector that that that object is traveling on so it can match speeds with the object orbiting the earth because don't forget a rocket launched from earth has the momentum of earth's rotation so it's not like it starts out and goes stationary for some reason you know you're wild wacky right so so it has to yeah it has to basically go up and then match the velocity of the object and then once it hits there it is in orbit it is going around the earth with the earth so so in actual fact what you're saying is it takes off with the speed of the earth at 66600 miles per hour and then it slows down to 17500 miles per hour it's not actually accelerating or thrusting it's actually slowing down and that's how it's got you yeah so um basically the the way that it works is that that it uses the earth's rotation to alter speed so basically when you achieve an orbit you're going at a relative speed to the earth usually satellites are on a geostationary orbit they're basically it's moving the same rate that earth is so when that rocket goes up because of atmospheric conditions it may slow a little but when once it gets to orbit we can then adjust it and for slowing down all slowing down is thrusting forwards so you're going backwards ross it's not like if you thrust against excuse me if you thrust against the vector that you are traveling in you will get slower you won't suddenly spin off in reverse if you've got momentum behind you and you push in front you'll slow down i don't know why this is hard to understand but that's fine mark but the thing is the question was we're not talking about geostationary satellites we're talking about the iss going 17500 miles per hour which is much much less than 66600 miles per hour and it's slowing down but it also travels around the earth every 90 minutes so yeah it just doesn't make any fucking sense me i've got to give mark the last word because the question was originally for him and then i've got to go to the next question yeah so this miles thing how fast is the iss moving um yeah so it's uh 7.66 kilometers per second yeah and so if the rotation of the earth is such that um it it like we put into orbit we can use the gravity of the earth to assist in speeding up like i don't understand how you you're basically saying well there's no possible way they could alter their their vector to match the iss of course they do it's their job that's what they do they're called thrusters they're called markets i'm sorry the only flat earth that has ever tried to launch a rocket and it's tragic died in his own rocket thing this he wasn't a flat earth this is the high he had a rocket that had flat earth written on it ross seriously yeah he was looking for publicity it was a stain maybe you are as well ross that's a no true scotsman i don't know what you're talking about with that so yeah if you could just be quiet while i finish and stop interjecting with stuff um that that is what they do they use thrusters they use gravity assist techniques they use a number of techniques to match velocities of objects and for that they use math the quick housekeeping things in particular we have a poll in the chat what is the earth shaped as so far number one and this is again this is just who happens to show up to the debate this isn't asking which debater was more persuasive it's just asking what people believe so 51% globe so far if you haven't voted in this poll you can 29% flat lot of flat earthers what do we got we've got like a live viewership of 546 so that's a pretty good a lot of flat earth people then like a pair has 10% that's in third place and in fourth place is who cares i'm a self-hating soy boy this one coming in from by the way if you got a gifted membership from surge in general some people aren't uh they're not looking at the live chat sometimes i know people just listen to modern day debate as they're doing things so if you didn't know it coffee breath gamble victor brett admire manic pandas fish crow fam roots logan fisher gamble and kevin p you all received a gifted membership from our dear friend surgeon general thanks for that this one coming in from elusive vipers says mark reid when discussing new stars ross seems to be referring to seasonal accelerate the seasonal constellations as seen from the equator which change as the seasons do yeah so that's different than the circumpolar stars which i said in the southern hemisphere which talking about specifically they never set and the northern circumpolar stars never set in the northern hemisphere um seasonal stars as elusive viper pointed out ones in the near the equator that aren't the circumpolar stars from north or south and they're seasonal they they come and go um it's just ross doesn't seem to understand what i'm talking about which is kind of hard it's hard to understand what you're talking about because you're speaking a whole bunch of out and nonsense because i can think logically as i said with the simple example is if you put two cameras onto a ball and pointed them towards the axis of rotation of each one they would not keep making perfectly circular star trails around each one of them and even if it was going around a massive center then each time they're going to be looking out somewhere different which you know the sun is our giver of day and night so we have to be going around the sun yearly annually so when we're on other sides of the sun we're looking 180 degrees complete opposite directions we would not be seeing the same stars unless you would be trying to argue that the entire universe goes around our sun this one coming in from azian talks says iron horse please explain uh don't i get the last word on that one yeah sure sorry to sorry to no problem yeah so so yeah he still doesn't understand parallax he still hasn't done that experiment himself to see if anything rotates he's just got no idea the question is if you're on a flat stationary earth why do their seasonal stars at all like why do they exist at all um you know he's got no answer for that and a lot of other things thank you ross the tons of other things he just doesn't answer he just keeps throwing out more claims than the hopes that will restrict you from the fact that he hasn't answered and i'm going to answer it mark you asked me the question i said the reason we have the seasonal stars at all is because they are on the sidereal day so the closer they are to the center the faster they will appear to move by moving that one degree per day until it's 365.25 rotations of the sun until they return back to the original position whereas in the outer hemisphere where we exist obviously they don't move nearly so fast this one coming yeah i'll just get the last word sorry jane he just keeps you know not giving the last word so yeah so yeah so so the whole point is he's basically saying that the inside of a circle rotates slower than the outside of it think about that that for some reason the inside of this this pizza is going slower than the outside which we know from physics is total hogwash um i don't know what his model is he seems confused himself but there is no way that's something on the inside of a circle is rotating slower than the outside and we would should be able to still see those stars if we can't see them on the outside why can we if we can see them all the time on the outside of his pizza why on towards the center can't we see them it makes no sense whatsoever this one coming in from azian talk says ross please explain the difference between speed and acceleration do you feel speed or acceleration more why explain in terms of cars versus globe model okay well that's a pretty good question because if we're going to compare the the globe and a car at the same time it'd be similar to say when i was talking about riding a bicycle around a car and as soon as the car starts moving now when it's moving say it's going around a big racetrack you know we'll have to scale it right down because big numbers hurt the globes unfortunately but if we put it down to a a scale model size and said the car is going around a racetrack now if i'm riding a bike around that car when i'm on the outside of that car compared to when i'm on the inside going backwards i'm definitely going a much different speed from it so if we did the same looked at the same example and said then that the globe is spinning on itself and going around the center then the part of the globe closest to the center is going to be going much slower than the part of the globe on the outside going with that direction and that that difference in speed works out to be daily about a mac 4 speed which is the kind of speed that an average fighter pilot passes out at if he's happens to reach that speed so it's a it's a great question and it's another great way of debunking the ridiculousness of the globe model because we don't pass out at midnight every night just because we're going mac 4 that way instead of negative mac 2 that way while the whole lot is going mac 87 that way around the sun this one to be fair to the super chatter he asked the difference between acceleration and speed which you didn't answer and pilots pass out from acceleration not speed by the way just just let you know but if you explain that for the person that spent their money on a super chat well speed is actually acceleration i mean you can't have one without the other so surely you understand that's a change of speed which is acceleration so to try and deny speed and have acceleration at the same time you must be really the same thing obviously yeah yeah this one coming in from do appreciate it brian w says iron horse please explain how we in the north see different constellations than you do in the south why is it winter here in summer there well that that works down to being again our our flat earth model as you can see is that the sun goes around the equator every day and when it gets higher the sunlight hitting down upon the imparts of the equator more direct sunlight which creates more heat and the indirect light towards the outer parts isn't creating as much heat so we have winter while you have summer and then when the sun comes down and it creates a bigger circle above us then the outer parts get warmer from the direct light and the sunlight then slanting through the atmosphere to the northern parts gets colder and the star question is basically they're too far away it's like anything you know like the further you go from anything i can't even see the town from here i was hitting but if i go to the middle of town i can see the middle of town it's the same with the stars if you travel you'll see different things it's part of the excitement of travel yeah when Australia is closer to um north america than south america but south america and australia can see the same stars what's that mark what was close um australia is closer to north america than it is to south america but we can't see the same stars that north america well on your map it is um but we can't see the same um yeah it's closer to north america than south america yes but we can see the same stars as south america why is that oh yeah well as we've already described the sky clock revolves around the entire earth the whole time so the stars are part of the sky clock just as the sun and the moon are just as we see the sun at daytime we see the stars at night time and so the stars moving that little increment four minutes per day faster than the sun means at night time which is completely different times from us in south america we will see what we see because that's what's above us to be looked at do you got this one coming in from do you appreciate your question ozzie and talk so the double hat uh you can say uh uh we thought that was a good answer oh that's that's precious your buddy i'm talking about audience now i've been given two certain chats supporting the channel he says ross if light is instant why are you roboting we'll give you a chance to do that first why am i roboting i think he means like sometimes if you get a robot voice during the connection on zoom uh it's probably because because i'm not speaking at this speed of light i guess so i'll try and speak at the speed of light in teacher oh i think he means like the connection in terms of it traveling from new zealand to the us because that's where the stream is coming from is the us he's in australia but yeah there is a sorry that's right that's okay that's all the baseball one of these upside down continents anyway yeah it's it's just internet connection you know like that stuff is physical light itself is not physical something mark struggling with he likes to think it's physical and hitting him in the face and that's why it's shining up the bouncy shiny beams off the top of his fur it's so coming from us can i just say something real quick it's because no no no yeah yeah just just real quick so there's a nullable hop which is a latency of about 10 to 20 milliseconds then there's the pacific hot over to america and because light doesn't travel instantly it still requires the speed of light that's why you're probably going to get a 30 a millisecond hop over the pacific to america and that's just the way to thank mark undersea cables wait a minute i just realized something you guys are both you guys are both from australia right yeah wow are you have you guys like how far are you from how long of a drive is it opposite ends mate as far away is it from him as i can possibly get you i'm coming the next weekend that's right you guys can hang out you don't even know me it must be really far is one of you on the east and one on the west yes yes i'm on the whoa that is far i'm on the east mark is probably down the bottom or something which out of curiosity because i just get a kick out of hearing like the general region people are from like are either of you near any major city that i've heard of yeah i'm in person okay brisminds closer to me okay that's super interesting so this one coming in like did you guys go to school like elementary school together this is coming in from brian w i think we got this ones yep we saw that one um michael michael lion says balls and then just a bunch of laugh emojis thanks michael the lion of judo thanks for your super uh i think it was meant to be a super chat if you had a question you meant to attach let me know ozzy and tox strikes again says ross what makes something a noble gas it's chemical composition and the molecular structure of the gases are quite well known but generally speaking we live in nitrogen and oxygen that they're our main ones but these trace gases are known to exist and it's when we concentrate these noble gases for example neon into a tube and stimulate it with electricity we get neon lights it's yeah the light spectrum of light bulbs it's a very interesting study actually and it's the the combination of different ones like argon and xenon and so forth that gives us different spectrums of light this is what spectroscopy is all about the one thing that professor david thought he had um they're called the flat earth they've all hung up about is that spectroscopy requires different gases isolated so when you isolate them into containers that's when you see the difference in the fluorescence of them when they're electrostimulated so noble gases although they are less than one percent of our atmospheric gases our atmosphere is really really huge and that one percent is still a really really really huge number of gases and that's why daylight doesn't blind us it's just gentle daylight you've got it this one coming in from got that one thanks for that let's see a bellis ua says iron horse please explain planetary transits and why do only mercury and venus transit the sun i have a feeling that most people that believe the heliocentric models sense that all the planets are going around the sun and so when they say transit they must man go between us and the sun and so it just indicates that they're actually closer and they're not nearly so far away as we believe in the first place and obviously if they were physical bodies gravity existed then they would fall to the ground so they are light beams they're definitely not um something physical as as the heliocentric believers like to to preach in their church you got it this one coming in from do appreciate it cool lambo says explain why the mixture of gases at different elevations do not change but their gas pressures do well once again we're talking amount the physical volume of something i did actually explain that and saying the same sort of thing happens in water like a the surface of water you've got zero water pressure you go a little bit deeper you get you eventually reach one atmosphere or the equivalent of two atmospheres etc etc the more amount pressing down on you creates the pressure so of course on air we're at maximum pressure at surface and as we get higher and higher the pressure just decreases because there's less of it pressing down on us very straight forward one flag red and white says red and white says iron horse if i stand on the south coast of the uk and see a cloud a thousand miles away on the horizon why what can't i see why can't i see spain what's in the way well first of all i don't think you'll be seeing a cloud thousand miles in the distance because convergence is a real known factor of the way we see it's called perspective you can see it in front of you right now how the floor seems to ramp up in front of you the ceiling appears to come down everything converges towards eye level so when you're in the south of england then you're looking outwards depending on your actual height will depend on how far your convergence point is and that is where the clouds will start the convergence um i'd be surprised if you're actually seeing them 30 or 40 miles away and assuming you're able to get high enough to see where spain is you've also got the distance diminution factor which makes the angular size of everything get smaller and smaller plus then you've also got atmospheric insecurity which means we can only see so far before the atmosphere starts blocking stuff anyway so the combination of those three very very ordinary everyday aspects of perspective are why you cannot see or why you do see as far as you do mark you looked skeptical did you have anything you wanted to add yeah um you know just basically calling the person in the audience a liar but that's what these people do um you also can't see it if you get like a telescope and look like magnify at all you want on a very clear day you still can't see it but yeah you do see clouds 1000 miles away yeah you see them in the atmosphere and you can see them on the weather charts that you know sort of meteorologists provide so you can see them that far away if they're in the air looking up but you can't see them looking along the ocean for some convenient reason for flat earth physics changes when it you know has to has to support flat earth you absolutely cannot see a thousand miles away clouds you absolutely cannot it's just impossible you got it just got this notification bunzai master thanks for following us on tiktok as i mentioned folks our tiktok link is in the description box we are shooting for a thousand as we'll be able to then livestream our debates there which will get us a ton of new exposure as we are determined to provide a neutral platform so that everybody can make their case on a level playing field at modern day debate this one coming in from do appreciate your question alternate cac says simulations of flat earth proved at a high point you could view anywhere on the flat earth using a telescope in reality you can't because of the curve iron horse yeah again they just um confusing the fact of convergence with curvature but the first thing you see with perspective is that everything beneath you ramps upwards and so depending upon your viewing height you will always have this convergence factor and that is why the horizon is always going to be at eye level because everything above that is converging down and we can't see through the stuff beneath us we can see through the air a certain distance but eventually you're gonna reach to such a height that the horizon itself just becomes completely obscure in atmospheric gases and so forth and light and fog and mist and all that sort of stuff we can't see through so of course you can't see forever it's a silly thing to assume that you would be able to maybe with some infrared you can see a lot further but you certainly won't see forever you got it thank you very much for this question coming in from two seconds where'd i put this this was a standard question from earlier gg said iron do you have any scientific experiment or publish paper that can verify what you're saying thanks james thank you g well you know i think a lot of this stuff we're still in the process of um publishing you know like the flat earth awakening has only been going on for probably a decade at the most whereas we've been believing in the the spaceball or the spherical earth for 2500 years we haven't believed it was actually moving until about 500 years ago and the fact that the the people now have got enough intelligence to realize the nonsense of all of those things about the curvature of water and the spinning speeds and all that sort of stuff means we've had about a decade so we're getting pretty close to coming up with scientific papers to prove where we stand on but honestly we're getting peer reviewed right here right now this is peer review and um if anybody has better evidence that we are actually spinning and hurt them through space and i'd love to see it i mean that's what marxie boy hasn't provided a thing actually the um flat earth society started in 1884 so it's been around for like over 200 years and hasn't produced what yeah but we don't see them as actually an authority we see them as controlled opposition so it's easier to present your own opposition before the opposition presents itself and then present pretend that you are that opposition than it is to actually allow it to happen organically as it's happened in this last in this last decade we've produced a hair cover lock juicy to say the least what want to say my dear friends we appreciate all of you being here whether you be flat earth glober you name it one last question polarity said convergence wouldn't be relevant with a telescope also james you look like an attractive version of robbie rotten i appreciate that i'm gonna google robbie rotten but go ahead wasn't that the um the guy on that children's show in canada um didn't didn't he die i think i think he died of cancer yeah oh yeah yeah this guy i've seen yeah yeah okay i thought it was the name of the show lazy town was lazy town or something right what i'm gonna say about small minds discuss people and great minds discuss ideas um what was the idea again that he's asking about convergence using a telescope and that all that the telescope is going to do same as his zoom lens is it's only on a magnify what is actually visible in front of the viewer so the only way that you can improve upon what is actually there is to get higher and as we have discovered as we get higher we can see further whereas if it was actually curvature in the first place getting higher you know if we're looking at it from a ball and we're going away from the center of the ball actually on backwards further away from it we're not going forwards and over the curve to see what's over so getting higher you have to go phenomenally higher before you would see even a tiny bit more but the fact that we can just go a little bit higher and see a heck of a lot more and a little bit higher and see a heck of a lot more proves the earth is flat not curved actually you can you can sort of see past convergence with a telescope anybody that's aimed binoculars down a road says you can see further then you know it's just this this claim is ridiculous it's you're magnifying what's in the convergence point absolutely but you're not going to see further you're going to see what's already there and able to be seen you're just proving that angular size is a thing affected by our eyesight because we can only see so much with our physical eyes if we magnify it sure we will see more it doesn't again that proves it's not curvature because if it was curvature all you would see is the curve you wouldn't see you still can't see from like England to Spain that was the whole point of that person's super chat like you no matter how far you magnify you never comes into sight because you're not high enough because convergence is a thing but you're undoing convergence with magnification that makes zero sense because you can see further if you magnify that image but you never see those objects you should be able to on flat earth that's the whole thing you can only see to a degree that the magnification isn't infinite and the further things get the smaller they appear no matter how much so the things in front are still going to appear bigger so they're still going to obscure the things further because they will appear smaller no matter how much you magnify the things in front are still going to get in the way this one coming in from two seconds I don't know if you guys can tell I'm like so wiped out someone said in chat that I'm high I'm not high I promise but I am really I might as well be because I'm so tired for some reason I think my behind horses I think that's iron horse are you high I wish I was okay I believe it this I told iron horse I said clothing required for tonight's debate as I think a lot of you yes it was one of my demands I demanded on a fairly close debate allegedly someone in the last debate saw more than they bargained for when you were in your hot tub debating polarity we we uh we put ourselves in the twitch maybe you should wrap up with some sperm and make maybe get some firmament wrapped around you polarity says if telescopes don't affect conversions then why claim ships at horizon after zoom that's what you guys claim brings ships back into view so what was the first part of that again James they said ships on rising if telescopes don't affect conversions then why claim ships at the horizon after zoom then they say that's what you guys claim brings ships back into view they do yeah yeah because I mean the zooms we have today are quite impressive and they can do some amazing things to bring things into view that the naked eye simply cannot see and so it's only because of the confusion of what people used to see with the naked eye they've assumed it was curvature in the first place so the zoom actually proves it's not curvature it is convergence I want to get shirts made you know if someone wants to sponsor me to make shirts I will have convergence not curvature that I think that's the greatest saying ever it is convergence not curvature this one coming in from I think that's all we have let me just double check just to be sure I don't want to miss any but I want to say my dear friends thank you so much I'm pretty wiped out and we're gonna let these guys go it's been about two and a half hours so if you have not already folks you can check out our guest links in the description box both Iron Horse and Mark Reed are linked in the description box below here on YouTube as well as at the podcast so if you're listening via podcast which is available via Spotify, Apple podcast, podcast addict, Google we're on every single podcast app you can find us and you can find our guest links there at the modern day debate podcast as well I want to say James sorry to interrupt I'm gonna head over to the modern day debate discord after this so yeah just gonna mention that if you want to join me over there more than welcome to I'm gonna head over there yeah thank you muted me by the way so as Mark would know because he's one of the moderators there who muted me in the first place thanks Mark. Yeah well you did um private message me and accusation and sort of insults and stuff so he did violate the guidelines of the server so you've got no one to blame for that but yeah because you're a moderator no no it's because of your your language and stuff. Surgeon General just shared the link for the discord in the live chat as well I just pinned that so I highly encourage you folks check out our discord if you haven't already hopefully hopefully you feel welcome there and we hope you feel welcome here. Absolutely. I'm gonna enjoy the circle jack that's all right that's enough of your dirty talk iron horse okay. Yeah I wonder why. We don't want to know any more about this so we want to say hope you feel welcome whether you be flat earth globe earth you name it we're glad that you are here thanks so much for being with us and I'll be back in just a moment for a really brief post-credits scene letting you know about upcoming debates and events as we are planning our in-person conference debate con part three our debate conference is going to be in April it's going to be huge so stick around and I'll tell you more detail about that. Thanks very much for hosting games it was. Thanks. Thank you guys both iron horse and mark and thanks folks for watching I'll be right back in just a moment. Ladies and gentlemen want to say thanks so much for all of your support if you have not yet hit that like button we have 415 people watching and we have we're only three likes away from 200 so we're at 197 likes we can totally get those last three come on 415 people watching want to say thanks for your support if you also want more people to see this debate I'm not exaggerating by hitting the like button more people will probably see this debate the reason is the more likes and engagement like comments everything else that this video gets the boost you could say the higher or the bigger boost it gets when it's ranked in the youtube search results so if somebody types in the word debate let's say temporarily this video may pop up with enough enough likes it may pop up in like the top five so that does help as a lot of people are searching the word debate on youtube that's common and want to say thanks for coming by coffee breath I see you there in the old live chat says I just want to say I didn't know nicotine lozenges existed until I heard about it on this channel the next day I bought some and quit smoking after trying to quit for years wow I'm so glad that like that's so cool I'm encouraged that that's been helpful for you seriously that's really cool and glad to have you here coffee breath as well as gamble good to see you James let me see I just lost you James GP thanks for coming by as well as monkey pox survivor Michael lion one nation underground west flat earth and thanks for coming by sit down as well as live music let me see if I can make this page bigger there we go Kevin Howe glad to have you with us as well as Chad Roybal glad that you were here as well as Joe mama happy to have you happy to have you back as well as mad pie man thanks for dropping in andre balas thanks for coming by roast potato good to see you again as well as iron horse thanks for coming by you see you there in the old live chat talking smack of course sit down thanks for coming by 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on tiktok we do have a couple of little snippet videos on tiktok but we want to livestream our debates there that's the big goal for us because making snippets is just a little bit challenging we love live streaming though that's for sure but yes want to say thanks for all of your support you guys it's crazy that we will hit 90,000 subscribers in several days join us while we're small though because for real and I don't mean small isn't under 90,000 I mean small is in in the long run we are shooting for the hundreds of thousands we are very confident that we can do that because we really believe that people on youtube are looking for a neutral platform where everybody can hear everybody make their case on a level playing field we think that's important we know that you think it's important and we're excited about the future as we continue to improve this channel and want to say thanks for all of your support seriously you guys it means more than you know I check on one thing that helps is somebody said in the chat today hey James like I think that your guys's channel should be a lot bigger for how long you've been doing this and I think they're right I and they said it might be that youtube recognizes that you're doing these controversial it might be the algorithm recognizes you're doing these controversial topics flat earth believe it or not is a little bit controversial in the sense that youtube actually puts their little like disclaimer underneath all of our flat earth debates where it's like flat earth you know the topic and then they basically put their position forward we at modern day debate don't do that we want it to be fully neutral so we don't even take a stance on the flat earth or the globe earth like we're radically like hey we're going to give everybody a shot it's not about my opinions we want the debaters to be the spotlight under the spotlight on this channel but want to say it might be that yeah maybe it is that youtube does maybe its algorithm is kind of designed so that it kind of doesn't give our channel quite as much as exposure as it could in terms of recommended channels so consider this if you haven't yet consider sharing this debate see right there as it says on the bottom right of the screen share this debate with a friend if you click that little arrow and it's got this little button below the video that's playing right now it's got a little arrow just like the one that you saw on screen and it says share you can share I don't know if you've ever done this before but yeah you could click on copy the link and you could text it to a friend who likes these goofy topics or whatever it might be and you can say hey check out this channel they're a neutral channel they're trying to give everybody a fair shot it's pretty cool that third party testimony goes way further than if I were to do that right because if people are like oh James like you started modern day debate so of course you'd say it's cool but if you do it it really does have a lot more weight a lot more credibility is a lot more persuasive the other thing is yeah you can basically you can share it anywhere so if you want to click on share and then you click twitter it'll bring you right over to twitter and it's so convenient it'll basically have for example in a tweet when I click the twitter button after I click share it'll bring me to a tweet that has a link to this very video and it says via youtube so pretty cool stuff you can conveniently share this you can share it I see a lot of a lot of the places that we do get shares is people share them in discord or they share them in twitter threads or facebook pages or I also see a lot of other stuff like what's that reddit is that where the young people are nowadays I see reddit I've seen some of these more controversial websites like I think it's called 4chan I've seen that so wherever people are sharing it I've got to be honest I'm like hey share it wherever you want that's what we care about is we we're not ashamed about wanting to grow like we frankly want to grow why because we think we're doing something important that it's something valuable that it's meaningful namely providing a level playing field so that everybody can make their case on a neutral debate platform a lot of these youtube channels they're like oh yeah yeah we're neutral we're like a debate channel but then they also have like many videos that'll come out afterwards and it'll be like oh man like for example with tonight's debate if they came out with a video afterwards and it was like oh man the flatterther or the globerther was so stupid and it's like well I don't know how neutral of a channel that is maybe the moderation might be neutral that could be but is the channel really neutral if you've got these aftershows that blasts one of the guests it's like I don't see that as very neutral modern day debate believes and I think you all agree with us that youtube deserves a better class of debate channel and we're going to give it to them my dear friends we appreciate your support my alliance is James I really appreciate you brother even though you're not flat earth sending love thanks for that support man seriously it means a lot and we hope you feel welcome like I said for real whether you be flat earth or globerther I've got friends that are globers I got friends that are flatters they called flatters I don't know but what do you guys call yourselves flat earth or you just call yourselves flat earthers right I know you don't call yourselves flurfs right because that's supposed to be like a that's the equivalent equivalent of like a globe head fluff and globe head or like names you guys used to antagonize each other but what to say thanks for your support gamble thanks for your kind words seriously it means more than you know and yeah I got to tell you though we're excited one big pond good to see you there in the live chat as well as Hobbs thanks for coming by man I should get some good sleep tonight I killed Earl I see you there in the old live chat again thanks for coming back we're glad you're back and then let's see here ring wraith thanks for coming by says modern day debate one million subs by the end of 2023 I don't know if that's going to happen although I've got to tell you we are working there are some debates that we've been working on for so long and we're going to keep working on it like we're persevering like even if we get a no and they're like no I can't work right now we're like all right we'll come back in a few months and they're like no still can't work all right we'll come back in a few months so we're very patient like we're we never like burn a bridge I'm always very careful like oh you don't want to do it now like it's okay not a big deal and then come back a few months later it seems like a long time but it's like oh it's gonna be here before you know it so we are very patient in terms of trying to set up these big debates and we do have some that oh man we had one that would have been we're still working on it though so don't worry don't give up hope it may still happen we had one that if we can get this set up it will it will shake the foundations of the online debate world period so like online debate world like beyond youtube beyond podcast like just every platform would be like oh my gosh you hear about what happened so we are excited about the future we've got some big stuff we're working on and that includes our suite let's see iron horse this can you drop the link again please that's pinned at the top of the chat it's uh right here surgeon general put it there and I pinned his 24 seven flat earth discord hit man thanks for coming by says I take it the after show is just mark talking about iron horse let's see and belittling him and not asking people to ask questions I don't know you've got to go there and I doubt that that's what it is because they have told me like hey this is a neutral discord as well and so so I would go there and I would say I trust that the moderators will give you a fair shot but it is true that if you break the rules like we've got to have rules to some extent so for example like we're not going to let somebody say the n word in our youtube live chat like we don't allow that or not going to we would never read that as a super chat that's something that we follow the terms of service of youtube we follow the rules and the reason is because even though I'm big on free speech and I'm like hey if people want to say whatever they want to say like let a thousand flowers bloom we think that the more enlightened message will win out over messages that might be depraved or degenerate nonetheless despite me being a big free speech person we also have to be practical we have to be shrewd we have to be clever we have to be wise and realize that youtube is a marketing machine a finely tuned marketing machine and it's how we've grown it's how the podcast has become I mean now it's like I think we're averaging about 3000 downloads per show now which is great this great growth for a podcast that gets doing well and especially yeah so it's like not only that but youtube about to hit 90 000 subs huge youtube is the reason I mean they're like I said a great marketing machine and so we play by the rules because we don't want to saw off the branch that we're sitting on in order to do this channel right that just wouldn't make sense let's see human girl says you're still studying james yes I still have about 10 months I plan on defending my dissertation within 10 months and once the dissertation is defended that means I'm a free bird and I am Dr. James so within Lord willing by the end of the year I'll be Dr. James I'll be done with this doctoral program and I love the program don't get me wrong but I'm also excited to move on to new things so appreciate you asking as well as good to see a night vision society thanks for coming by as well as Saito Nav Saito Nav will probably be I don't want to volunteer him for it but I'm sure there will be people in the discord such as Saito Nav or people like him that'll make sure that everybody gets a fair shot so don't worry folks like it's not going to be someone in chat saying that it's going to be just mark belittling and you know like I don't I uh I think it's going to be fair so fentanyl Floyd good to see you back here big pine sailing thanks for coming by glad that you dropped in TV makes them do it thanks for coming by I see you there in the old live chat and living room speakers you my boy I hope you're doing well Kayem thanks for coming by appreciate you being here I draw stuff good to see you there happy to have you with us and Kevin howl thanks for being here yeah I'm pumped it's going to be so cool to finish up this program because I love it don't get me wrong I'm thankful I've had a good advisor and that's like the trick to like having a good PhD experience so I'm thankful for my advisor at the same time it's been uh what is it now four and a half years at least I started and yeah so it's it's getting to be I'm like okay now I'm ready to be done so I am excited to be done and it'll be good it'll be fun and it'll be cool to like move on and do new things I'm thinking I might go into consulting maybe do a little bit of that just to get some experience at it especially because I think that'll help me run modern day debate because I do want to do modern day debate full time that's my goal down the road I think I probably want to teach for a while do some consulting for a while and then do modern day debate full time so my alliance has been here for a while James I hope you remember me I've seen yeah your name I recognize your name so thanks for being here for a with us for such a long time a lot of you guys have been here for a long time you've been here with us for years which is crazy isn't it so I just turned 36 by the way that was like two days ago by the way Bob I I got your voicemail the second voicemail I should say thank you guys for that voicemail appreciated that that happy birthday voicemail the second one where it's both of you so seriously that means a lot night vision society says James skipping over me I don't know what did you say did I miss it did you say something naughty I honestly didn't see it kk westbury good to see you thanks for coming by pure rossy gold thanks for being here thanks to our mods they do keep they do keep the chat good and controlled and they're you know don't get me wrong we like people to have freedom we don't want people to feel like they're walking on eggshells and I think we do a pretty good job of that where it's kind of like pretty easy going but you know if somebody's coming in and they look like they're just trying to like target somebody like they're just trying to be malicious it's like eh like we got to draw the line somewhere and so we'll give you a we try to give warnings I mean if it's really you know depending on how bad it is like for example I can tell you that if you ever said the n word in chat like it's just an instant ban there's no like warning for that because you probably live in civilized society and probably know that's not okay already bond says cool to see modern day to be modern day to be growing so much I remember when it was modern day hysteria that's right channel used to be called modern day hysteria and then we changed it it was like that for actually it was like several years I was doing to like videos of my own that were just like opinion videos and I deleted them when I started the debate channel but yeah it was like this channel used to be that's why it's so old like this channel was like started if you look at the about page let me see what it says here I think it says like 2014 2016 and that's because for like about a year I would upload videos they were just opinion videos and then like position videos and then so yeah so it's like 2016 april I started it in the spring I remember that it was in Lubbock, Texas I was living in when I started it and then it was eventually though I kind of like I hosted debates to just get more because debates are fun and they draw more attention to the channel and I realized it's like why is like people love debates it's like I don't just do a debate channel and especially because I thought hey it'd be really cool to do like a fully fair channel because not all of them are thanks just got a notification new tiktok follower of modern day debate thanks for your support Aaron Albrecht thanks so much for following us at tiktok that's linked in the description folks we really do appreciate that seriously it means more than you know so that's pretty cool we are excited as we're growing folks we really are and that's really encouraging we're pumped about that Amanda says love you James thanks Amanda for your support seriously that means a ton I killed Earl says wow we're the same age you serious I killed Earl I don't get it is that like a movie quote or something or a tv show and is it like a it's a meme or a quote from a show Pirazzi Gold says James I thought you were in your 20s because of the whole university thing not long turned not not long turned 38 I don't know what that means I said I said I was 36 not 38 but yeah let's see our dub says modern day hysteria it's right that's old school modern day hysteria that was a fun channel though it was fun like it was the branding was all green if anybody remembers that far back because now modern day debate obviously the branding is blue and black but the branding for that old channel was green we are always put like a green circle with a white M in the middle of it or I should say yeah but anyway let's see Amanda good to see you oh yeah yeah I'm pumped yeah and then Cutty Sobs thanks for coming by says will the debate ever begin let's see seems like a bot but human girl says the lore goes deep he he he he see like a 12 year old girl he let's see don't worry I don't worry it's not a big deal I can make fun of her but it's fun let's see Alma Dixon Cider says just kidding I would never wait what did you say it says what if what if it's the inward without the heart are inward oh I see what you're saying I think that you technically can no joke I'm not exaggerating I think that YouTube actually allows it that you can say you know the n word without a heart are so that it just ends with an a I don't feel like testing like YouTube sound I don't feel like testing that's just from what I've understood someone explained it to me that way it's but I'm not interested in like playing with YouTube over these things just because I think we've got a pretty good reputation with YouTube despite having like topics that they're probably like kind of like could you do something else it's not bad we've only had one strike and it was I appealed it I think it was maybe even just a strike warning and I said hey like you guys like I really weren't breaking the rules with this one and then they overturned it and that was it that was like two years ago maybe so I'll let you guess what the topic was this one let's see certain general says YouTube allows it but it isn't a good idea yeah I don't know if it's oh it's interesting then let's see I killed her all says no just an observation you seem so accomplished that you were older thank you for that I appreciate that support I am I think I probably look old older than my age which doesn't bother me like I'm actually like hey like I can leverage that I feel like one thing I notice I gotta tell you guys it's interesting is if we have two older gentlemen as long as like assuming the same energy and liveliness the same vim as younger guys the the debate with the older guys all things equal we'll get more or or ladies I'm not trying to make a point of the sex the the debate with the older people will get more views I think there is something to the idea of like if you look more distinguished people maybe there's just something to it it has a little it has a positive effect if I have like two all things equal to 18 year olds debating not as many people will watch I think people like to listen to people who like have the same or more life experiences them it's just like a general trend and I can tell you that like the audiences of some streamers like young guys that might be in their 20s or even some guys in their early 30s they're oftentimes like their audiences are way younger like modern day debate has I think our average like is like people in their 30s so but yeah let's see Hobbs says love this channel thank you at modern day debate thanks Hobbs that seriously means a lot and then human human girl says Earl from Jesse Lee Peterson that's funny Earl and T I think that was his name T I can't remember but I've got to go you guys I'm seriously so tired but I want to say thank you guys for your support let me look at this I think this person might be a bot two okay cutty sobs I wonder I you got my you caught my attention as a potential bot I don't know if you are so just to let you know you look like a bot Kevin house is James sweat is sold for testosterone booster thank you for that I did get my testosterone tested because I was worried because I don't get a lot of great sleep grad school is like a it's a bitch frankly like so it's I've got bad sleep I wish I could get good sleep but I just wake up every single night I feel super alert and so I got it tested because I thought oh I might have you know maybe my testosterone is low and what was it basically what happened was it was actually fine it was like in the normal level I think it was a little bit higher than the average so that was good so I was concerned though I was like could it be low because if you want to have like enough testosterone sleep is like maybe your best or most important thing to do so let's see human girl says remember T I do I can't believe you watch Jesse Lee Peterson says oh man I listen to Jesse Lee Peterson I don't know if you guys knew this but human girl has like all of the same views as Jesse Lee Peterson ringwraith says James can you show your play button when you reach 100,000 subs yes I seriously will I'm anticipating we'll probably hit 100,000 subs probably around May of this year yeah this probably probably when we'll hit it and so when we do I'll have to think about like how can we like it'd be cool for me to be able to put it so that it's on screen because we use this blues this you know this green screen effect because it's nice to have the branding there you see the modern like the modern database branding there but I've got to figure out like I definitely do want to it gives a lot of credibility so thanks for your kind words James looks like a strong teenager appreciate that and then let's see Kevin how you look 12 appreciate that human girl says yeah I think 30s I appreciate that 30s worse for me I but like I said I'm I'm pretty I've always looked a little old for my age and I'm like very like I said I'm kind of like it's it's it's easier to be a man and look older than your age like because it's just the strange thing yeah it's just it's not bad like things are going like I generally all things equal I have enjoyed life more as it went on so I'm like very happy to get older and even look older because like I said I think it gives a modern day debate a little bit more authority and I also think that it it also I think having the doctorate will give a good boost to the brand of modern day debate to be honest like I think it'll help that it's like modern day debate hosted by James Dr. James Coons I think that's a good thing we of course have other moderators so I really want ultimately I think it's cool to have that but I think that ultimately we want modern day debate to be bigger than like the James channel I don't want it to be the James channel like at one point I thought about having my picture in the branding like on the channel banner but ultimately we're like you know what we want modern day debate to be like a symbol we want it to be bigger than any individual so that one it makes it cool that we can have these guest mods Amy and Kaz for example who do a fantastic job and also though that like it'll continue on without me hopefully like that's a cool idea is that it's like it's a symbol it's something bigger bigger than any individual and that sense like if it's a symbol it can't really doesn't have the same vulnerabilities as a human or a person so but yeah let's see certain general says did the come the not to the count did the test come back positive for beta you're referring to the testosterone test is it came back as beta I don't I can't be too loud but I don't want to I don't want other people to hear me but let's see I killed it earl says I get I date guys in their 40s and early 50s it definitely wasn't an insult no no don't worry like I'm I'm trying to explain like why men maybe it probably maybe it comes off as like as if I'm like trying to like I'm like trying to explain myself as if I'm like insecure about it but no I'm trying to explain to men like I'm trying to tell men out there that like it's like when I was younger I think I used to be like less excited about looking older for my age if I even do I don't like it like I'm not trying to make a point there but now at this age I'm kind of like no no like this is okay like this is cool but I want to say thank you guys and fine if I don't look older for my age and fine that I don't have that advantage although I like I said I think it can be good but want to say want to say thanks for your support you guys I love you seriously you make this fun we're excited about the future oh my gosh I feel like I'm almost out of out of what's the word I'm almost out of out of breath wait a minute I killed earl is your username referring to earl from Jesse Lee Peterson because I heard that it was earl or tea I heard allegedly died one of them did so I don't know if you guys know this folks on Jesse Lee Peterson's show cut his ups as I guess I'm a bot thanks for the heads up but on Jesse Lee Peterson's show the uh there some of the like typical routine callers that call in and challenge Jesse who human girl is a huge fan of she's like a huge fan of Jesse like she's always like quoting his stuff and saying that like slavery doesn't exist and all that stuff or what is it not slavery racism she says doesn't exist she says both of them never existed she's you know but anyway but yeah anyway does it it really refers to that earl no way fentanyl floyd says yes lol no way is it where is I killed earl says I'm never getting married again and I'm 36 but you're not answering if you are referring to earl from Jesse Lee Peterson let's see cutty sobs look at look at this character in the chat I like you you're you're good I you're entertaining me one nation underground let's see man but I'm poop thank you guys hold on that might be another new follower on tiktok no it's not but let's see here but it is we do have that based okay says I killed earl says no it's from a dixie chick song okay that's based I told everybody hold on what I'm going to do is I'm going to refer everybody to the discord chat so I do encourage you guys if you want to if you got discord check it out check out the modern day debate one that's where mark and everybody went and I want to say thanks for your support thanks for the two of you that are watching over at twitch sorry that I never check in on that I want to say thank you guys I love you guys I'm so tired I hope you have a great rest of your night and I'm looking forward to seeing you at the next debate we for sure will have one on Friday we might have one before that that's kind of like up in the air we're still finding that out but Friday is going to be a good one it's going to be JF versus Daniel Hukicachu so it's going to be pretty cool it'll be too big Daniel Hukicachu went to harvard I don't know if a lot of people know that and the selection process for harvard is like you usually have to be in like the top you have to be in like the 99th percentile it's like pretty to get selected in because the SAT is basically just an IQ test and JF got his PhD at I think he was University of Montreal so that'll be an interesting juggernaut debate and I want to say thank you guys love you guys you guys make this a seriously fun Earl and T but yeah thank you guys you guys just make me you make me feel happy you encourage me so let's see I hope you have a great rest of your night keep sifting out the reasonable from the unreasonable and keep it real homies oh I didn't push the right button where is this goodbye oh I did it again