 Welcome to Think Tech Hawaii. My name is Dorei Shen. I'm the host of this show, Finding Our Future, and I'm here every other Wednesday, 1 to 1.30. I like to interview people who have been involved with our community for a while and have some insights they can share and inspire the rest of our community. So Stuart Coleman is here, boss, and long-time activist. Can you introduce yourself for everyone? Yes, sure. Thank you, Dorei. My name is Stuart Coleman, and I have been the regional manager for the Sirfighter Foundation for the last 10 years. I'm just about to embark on a new project. Yeah, so talk about your new project, just to intro people to what that is. Yeah, so it's called by WAI. It stands for Wastewater Alternatives and Innovations, and it's a new non-profit that's dedicated to water quality and specifically the kind of conversion and improvement of our cesspool situation. Yes, so we sometimes laugh about how you're the cesspool guy, the toilet expert, and stuff. So can you share how you got involved? What made you passionate about this? Yeah. Probably five years ago, we started working, a little more than that, we started working on the cesspool issues, and I learned that Hawaii has the highest number of cesspools in the country, which I was kind of stunned to learn. We think of the pristine waters of Hawaii and the environment, but we have 88,000 cesspools across the state. So I started working on the issue, and with Sirfighter and a number of different organizations, we were able to pass three different laws that first span the creation of new cesspools, and then the second law created a $10,000 tax credit for homeowners to convert their cesspools into a more efficient system, and then mandated the closure of all cesspools by 2050. And then the final law created the cesspool conversion working for which I've been serving. And then for people who don't know, can you explain what a cesspool is and why they suck? Yes. Someone just told me the other day, never trust a cesspool because they're full of crap, so they're giving me a lot more. That's a meme! You should make a meme out of that. Yeah, there'll be a lot more of those puns. A cesspool is basically just a hole in the ground. So it's literally the least developed form of wastewater sanitation that exists in the world. You have a lot of them in developing countries. But when Hawaii was being developed, so much of it was rural and it was country, and a lot of people just started digging cesspools. And so they're anywhere from 20 to 40 feet deep, 3 to 5 feet across, depending how big. And all the water from the house, including the gray water from the showers and sinks, and then the black water from the toilets goes into the cesspool, and then it just kind of permeates out through the soil. Some of them have bricks, but it leaches out into the environment. Right. So I was surprised that neighborhoods Black Point, which is known as an extremely wealthy neighborhood, they still have cesspool. So what do they look or smell or feel like? How come they're not known? It's remarkable that in Honolulu, in one of the wealthy areas, we still have cesspool, which kind of explains why the water quality sometimes in that area is bad, because it's coarse rock and it's just filtering through. A lot of times you can't see this. It's in the yard, so everything's underground. So there's like grass above it? So there's grass above it? Sorry, there's usually like a hole, like a manhole kind of sized thing. And that's where you can go to pump it. You have to pump it every so often when it gets full. Most people don't even realize that. And so they don't pump it. And so when it rains, it just overflows, and that's part of the problem. So maintenance of the cesspools is a big issue. And they have to pay for that too, I'm guessing. Homeowners have to pay for that. Yeah, but unlike people on the sewer system who pay average $100 a month, say, and they're not really part of the problem, people with cesspools are directly contributing to that knowingly or not. And they don't have to pay any monthly fees. And so we're looking to create a program that's a little more equitable for everybody, because the people who are contributing to the problem aren't giving any money to help clean it up. And so maybe just having a very small fee to help maintain and to help those who are poor upgrade their system. So just to be clear, the impact on the ocean, is it from rainwater coming in and overflowing it? Or is it more just like a runoff situation? Good question. It's both. So just when it works naturally, it's going into the ground and it gets into the groundwater. So at Black Point and places on the big island and along the shores, the groundwater is very shallow. And so if you have this thing going down, it's just seeping into the groundwater, which is going directly out into the ocean. If you're more upcountry and inland, it's still going into streams or groundwater and then coming out through submarine tubes. And so it's a problem just in the normal way it functions. And then also when it rains, they fill up and they overflow. And then a lot of people just don't even know that they have to be pumped. And so they're not maintained regularly. And so we have an average of, pause for this, 53 million gallons per day of untreated wastewater is coming out through cesspools all across why? Every day. Every day. And is Oahu the worst just because we have more people or is it more in rural areas? It's more in rural areas because Oahu is the most sewered of all the counties, but they're still, you know, when you get outside of the city, the North Shore, East Side, West Side, there's still lots and lots of cesspools. But the big island has the most. They have almost half of the cesspools in the state. All the off-grid hippies. Yes. So what percentage of homeowners that have cesspools know that they have cesspools? Is it pretty much all of them or some unaware? I think most people realize that they do, but there are probably some, if they inherited house from their parents, you know, or are renting, may have no idea about how bad the problem is. Okay. So just to finish up the cesspool conversation, I just think it's very interesting. The solution is that to go door to door homeowner by homeowner and convince them to switch? And what's the process for doing that for them? Yeah. So there's a mandate that they have to, all of them have to be converted by 2050. That seems a long way off, right? But with 30-year mortgages starting next year, if you buy a house and it's got a cesspool on it and there's a 30-year mortgage, that runs up against that conversion date. So by 2021, we have to have, start having solutions so that we can help people with these conversions. So one of the options we're trying to do is like a point of sale conversion. Yeah. So right now, if you do renovations to your house and you have to pull a permit, you have to upgrade your cesspool. Right. And if you buy a house and if you're in a certain area, like priority one area, like Kahlua and Oahu or of country Maui, then you have to immediately upgrade. So, you know, we see it in the water quality, especially in Kahlua and the bays and, you know, on the Kaniyoi side. In upcountry Maui, it's also a drinking water issue. Absolutely. So it seeps into the groundwater. So it seeps into the groundwater into the wells. And so, yeah, we're, you know, that's, it's the Department of Health who oversees this is really just trying to educate people about the nature of the problem and help them understand that, you know, nobody wants to contribute to the problem knowingly. Yeah. Most people just don't understand. Right. So how would you, because you've been involved with so many ocean pollution issues for so long, how would you rank like the different pollutants that enter the ocean? Like there's, you know, there's pesticides, there's cesspools, plastic, like if you had to rank, like in terms of importance or volume, like whatever the measure would be. Yeah, that's a challenging question. The number one source of water pollution is just stormwater runoff. Yeah. So whenever we have a storm, especially what's called that first rain, that first flush is what they call it, is just all the streets, all the garbage, all the animal waste, the tire waste, the gasoline, oil, cigarette butts, plastic, everything goes out. Right. So you should never swim within, you know, at least 24 hours after major rain, especially if it's the first major rain in a while. Right. And so that's the number one. I'd say cesspools are probably number two, you know, with 53 million gallons a day going into our surface waters and our ocean. And, you know, pesticides and plastics are, you know, close to three and four. You know, hard to quantify with the volume, but. Versus impact. Impact, yeah. But pesticides have a clear impact on our coral reefs. And, but now they're new studies from science are showing from science magazine are saying that plastics are abrasives and they scratch the coral and then they get infected. So it contributes to the disease and the coral bleaching of coral reef. Yeah, exactly. And for some background on your involvement, because you've been a surfwriter for so long, can you share just kind of like a quick reflection on your experience, like maybe a quick like intro on how you got involved and where, like why you're moving on and kind of how you feel about that. Because it's such a long place for you to live in our community. Yeah. So I was a teacher at private schools, Yolani and Punahou, and then at UH and then finally at the East West Center and love teaching, but was also thinking I was teaching leadership at the East West Center and I was like, okay, I want to get leadership out of the classroom and into the community. And so there was an opportunity with surfwriter and we created this, the first position, the Oahu manager position, I mean the Y manager position for surfwriter. And so that was just a dream job. I was so happy. So for 10 years I was doing that. But it's, you know, it's five different chapters across Hawaii. It's five different initiatives and programs and campaigns. And water quality just arose is for me one of the most important issues that we have to deal with. And so it became for me more important and more of a personal issue because you hear there's more stories of people getting sick that we have, you know, four times the level of staff in the entire country, twice the level of a MRSA, MRSA infections. So I was realizing like our water quality is down, you know, it's deteriorating quickly. And so I really wanted to focus on that. And I thought, this is one of the most important issues that no one has really been dealing with. Yeah. Tripp Fletcher just told me that there's been an increased rate of those infections. And he was saying it's because of like the heat of the ocean and how that just like breeds bacteria. So is that true? Because I hadn't really, I don't really follow like thicknesses happening from like surfers or ocean entering the ocean. One of the things that we've been talking about with DOH and other groups is we're one of the few states that doctors don't have to report these illnesses. And so we need a database to track who's getting sick, whether it's waterborne intestinal or it's, you know, infections like MRSA or staff, just so we have a clear database. When you mentioned ship, it made me think of the also the effects of climate change and sea level rise. So a lot of these cesspools and even septic systems are near the coast. And so as the groundwater is the water table rises, the sea level rise, those things are going to start flooding over. And so the cesspool problem is going to become even worse. Yeah. That's something we really have to kind of prepare for. Get ahead of and not like react later when it's more expensive and like an emergency. Exactly. We got to be proactive and kind of get a better handle on it. Right. So what would be like your wish for people to know? Like most people aren't, you know, they're not going to like get involved on a very deep level with like cesspools and water quality. So what would be like your wish list or your message to like a general person who just wants to like be of help in terms of ocean and water quality? Yeah, I think, you know, it's going to be fascinating because I volunteered for surfrider for eight years before working there for the last 10. And I'm kind of going to be returning to that and volunteering and advising the chapters. And it's going to be a focus on water quality. And so I would tell people get involved with surfrider foundation or Sierra Club, but these water quality issues are not going away. And these environmental issues are only going to get worse. And so we really have to start being, like you said, proactive so that they don't catch us by surprise and end up costing 10 times as much. Whereas if we plan for it, you know, we can help ameliorate the situation before it gets bigger. Yeah, exactly. Okay, any other reflections from just like your time at surfrider and like sharing the mission and any of the work that you did? Before we do a deeper dive into cesspools. Before we go on break. Yeah, exactly. We would just talk about toilets. Yeah. I, you know, I think the biggest plug I would make for people is if you haven't volunteered, volunteering with surfrider and working with them was transformational in my life. And I think people do this kind of pit environment and business. And it's just such a false dichotomy because we are totally pro-business and we just want business to be smarter and be thinking towards the future and not longing towards the past. And so get involved because it's, there are some of the greatest people you meet. They're passionate. They're diverse. They're business people, scientists, researchers serve, you know, just people who love the ocean and love the environment. So whatever organization is just get involved. Exactly. I love it. And surfrider, I think is like such a great organization because it is pretty much we're the only two staff for the whole state. And so it is volunteer run. And it's such a, I mean, people who volunteer are really dedicated and they care about something. So it's a great community, surfrider and any other organization that resonates for you all nonprofits need help. And it makes you happier. There are studies that show volunteering makes you happier. Oh, totally. More community connected. You make friends and you feel purposeful. So, yeah. This has truly become my ohana and extended family and friends out here. Yeah, exactly. Cool. Well, we're going to go on a quick break and then after when we come back, we'll talk about bill 40 for a little bit. And yeah, anything else related to oceans and water quality that we want to touch base on. Hello, my name is Becky Samson. And I'm the host of It's About Time on the Think Tech, Hawaii, a digital nonprofit organization that's raising public awareness. Join us on Wednesday at 2pm where we talk about real issues. Some of the topics will include entrepreneurship, health, life skills and growing your business. So once again, this is Becky Samson on It's About Time on Wednesday at 2pm on Think Tech, Hawaii. Mahalo. Hi, I'm Rusty Kamori, host of Beyond the Lines. I was the head coach for the Punahou Boys Varsity Tennis Team for 22 years. And we're fortunate to win 22 consecutive state championship. This show is based on my book, which is also titled Beyond the Lines, and it's about leadership, creating a superior culture of excellence, achieving and sustaining success, and finding greatness. If you're a student, parent, sports or business person, and want to improve your life and the lives of people around you, tune in and join me on Mondays at 11am as we go Beyond the Lines on Think Tech, Hawaii. Aloha. Welcome back to the show. This is Finding Our Future on Think Tech, Hawaii. My name is DeRation. We're here every other Wednesday from 1 to 130. And I'm here today with Stuart Coleman, who's my boss at Surfrider, and he's outgoing. He's starting his own nonprofit. He'll be the executive director at Vi, which is wastewater alternatives and innovations, also the Hawaiian word for water. And I think it's really cool because Vi Vi means wealth. So water is life and it's, you know, our most important resource, not only for us as humans, but for our whole, like, all wildlife and all living things. So I think that's such a cool name for an organization and a really cool mission to share a little bit about how that got started and like what the vision is for that nonprofit. Yeah. And just to build on what you said, to me, one of the most important things was realizing like the word wealth originally means well-being and just how far we've gotten away with that, you know, just like through consumerism. And now that we are approaching the Christmas season, you know, it's just all about things. And the native Hawaiians and indigenous communities around the world have so much to teach us about like Vi Vi wealth, meaning water. Like if you have water and then you can farm, you have everything you need right there. And so getting back to that original meaning of what true wealth is, that it's our well-being and straight, very far from that. And so what I hope to do with this new nonprofit is really kind of remind people how important clean water is because we're seeing across the country with Flint, Michigan, Michigan with the lead in the pipes and we have aging infrastructure systems around the country, sewer systems and many cesspools and septic systems. And if we don't take care of these, they're the basic things trying to cost us so much more, not only just in terms of, you know, financial costs, but in terms of just health costs and well-being. Exactly. Yeah. So how is the organization funded and like what is the actual work that you guys will be doing on the ground? So we're going to be focusing on kind of five areas and one of them is new technology. I went to the Gates Foundation last year and I'll tell you a little more about that. And there's new technology that's just much cleaner and better than cesspools and septic systems. So the financial piece and financial opportunities trying to, since we have this mandate, convert these cesspools, making sure that we find alternative funding for people. Because a lot of these cesspools are in poorer communities, so we want to make sure that they're taken care of and they're not, you know, given a burden that they have to buy a new system that they can't afford. And then, you know, that entails community outreach and then there's policy and regulations that needs to change, you know, like updating the plumbing codes to separate gray and black water. Like that's a huge thing right there that will improve our water quality. Yeah. And then just finally, trying to set up a pilot project where we can demonstrate some of these new technology and financial options to help the people of Hawaii with this burden because with 88,000 cesspools across the country and a minimum of, you know, at least 20,000 to convert them, you know, this is a multi-billion dollar problem. And so I just, we figured that they need an organization that was really focused on this to help people with this transition. So whether you have a cesspool or not or a septic system, everybody's involved because it's our water. Yeah. And I think just like learning about it as a citizen and a community member is really important because I don't think most people are aware that this is an issue in Hawaii. And even if you hear it, like, I'm like, what is a cesspool? You know, so just getting that message out there, it's just like plastic, like plastic is now this global narrative. We all know about it. We know why it's a problem and we know what the solutions are. I think creating that around cesspools is really important. Yeah. So I mean, imagine, you know, you convert all the cesspools in Hawaii, maybe I'm optimistic and I'm just like, yeah, we could do that in the next 10, 20 years. Who knows? But if you do that, then what would be next for your organization? I think, you know, it's going to take a while, you know, 30 years at least to do all this. But just the idea of clean water, you know, and reducing the amount of pollution. So, you know, there's green infrastructure projects. We're talking with Pacific Current about, you know, doing green infrastructure changes that reduces the amount of stormwater runoff. So the more we get into the ground, more permeable surfaces, no part of surfrider, you know, we have ocean friendly gardens and that key term is CPR, you know, conservation, permeability, and retention. So trying to keep the water in the land, recharging the aquifer. So we have plenty of drinking water. And then out from taking all these chemicals, pesticides, pollutants into our waterways into the ocean. So that's a unfortunately never ending job right there. But we wanted to start with the cesspool problem, which was the biggest issue. Yeah, exactly. Do you want to share about the Gates Foundation and the kind of origins of the organization? Yeah. So like I said, I kind of started working on this issue with surfrider. Passing a number of laws to deal with the cesspool issue. And then last year, I was invited to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. They had the reinvented toilet expo. And I know you're jealous that you were not there. It was amazing. And every poo pun you could make, Representative Chris Lee made them. And Chris Lee and I were invited to be on the closing panel of the conference. And there were like 500 people from around the world. And we were kind of confused. We're like, why are they asking us to speak? But it was really ingenious. The director, Brian Arbagas, realized that if people from around the world and the Bill Gates Foundation focuses on developing countries, if they realize is Hawaii, which is known as one of the most beautiful places on earth, is pristine waters, has an accessible problem. And other people would be like, oh, we're not alone. This is truly a global issue that the developing world and the developed world are still dealing with. And so we gave a talk about that. And then we kind of, because they're working in the developing world, we need Western companies to really adapt this new technology that the Bill Gates Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation spent $200 million doing research for and coming out with a new technology. And it was pretty funny. It was an opening conference. And the world is watching. It's going to be headlines around the world. He puts a jar of human excrement on the podium. And everybody's like, oh my God, that's going to make headlines right there. And he said, when I first began, we were looking at computers that were the size of entire rooms. And we had this vision for personal computers that could just change and radically change our society. And he's like, when we started the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, we were looking at all the diseases that are the most deadly diseases around the world. And it all came back to wastewater, unsanitary processes and people getting sick and preventable diseases. And so he spent all this money and he was just like, look at the toilet. We've had the same toilet since Thomas Crapper basically invented the toilet or popularized it in England almost 150 years ago. And so he's like, we really realized this was the area that needed the greatest amount of innovation. Yeah, totally. Why do we like, also, maybe this is a little different, but why do we can't poop into potable drinking water? I feel like that's so unnecessary. There's so much recycled gray water we can use. And drinking water is scarce for a lot of impoverished countries and it just feels like a slap in the face to people who can't even access fresh drinking water. Absolutely. When you think about it with countries, and there were a lot of countries represented in this expo in Beijing that have real water issues. And increasingly, South Africa, there was a day where they ran out of water. It's so scary. Not just developing countries anymore. And the idea of using clean drinking water is just ridiculous. Yeah, wasting it. It's a total waste. And so that's one of the things that we hope to change. It's a scale of small little changes we can make separating gray water and black water. And you can recycle the water from your shower to flush your toilet or your sink. There's no reason that can't be a connection right there to fill it up and not use clean potable drinking water. So just a little bit of technology. A little bit of technology. We can do anything. Two, there's vast changes. And the three basic categories are the single-use toilet you have in a home that is totally self-sufficient. It's not connected to plumbing, the New Gates technology. That's still a year or two out. But they're models. They're testing around the world. And then there's the multi-use bathrooms that you might find in a park or a school or a playground. Four to eight seats. And the great thing about these is that when you're going out in the country, part of the reason people have these test pools is because there are no sewer lines. On the east side, when you go into Kaluu, it's just too expensive. It's hundreds of millions of dollars. And so people go into the ground and build the test pool. But what we can have here is you don't need a sewer system. It's completely off the grid. Very low energy can be powered by solar. And what it does is it separates the liquids and the solids and then burns the solids, which becomes its own fuel and helps burn it. And then that pasteurizes the water. And so the water can be totally recycled for garden use, can be used for anything. Many more circular systems. Like everything's linear. We just waste things. So the more we can see things as a resource. Exactly. One of the great expenses that we have is pumping water all across the island to get to these treatment plants. We treat it. We spend hundreds of millions of dollars on these plants. And then we just pump it out to sea. So it's a one-way system and it's total wasted water and everything. Where these systems, it's 100% circular. You recycle everything. And the burned waste becomes biochar. And you can literally put that on your garden. It is the best. It's pathogen-free, chemical-free, and it's a great fertilizer. And it's also a carbon sink. Exactly, sequestering carbon. People don't know that. A lot of people. So we do have to wrap it up. But I do just want to do a quick shout-out to Bill Forty and Civic Engagement if you can do a little something and then we got to close up the show. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks to people like you and all of the good folks at Sierra Club and Sustainable Coastlines and Zero Waste O'ahu and Kukua Hawaii Foundation and Beach and so many others. After I've been working on this issue for 10 years, as you know, that's what I started on. And nobody really knew about plastic pollution. And just last week, we were able to pass Bill Forty, which is going to be one of the leading examples of bills across the country to reduce plastic pollution. It's super exciting. Yeah, yeah. And then so for people who want to get involved with Starfighter, we just had this huge victory. It's a super good time to get involved. Or any of the other nonprofits we gave a shout-out to. Just follow us on Instagram or get on our email list or our websites. And we'll be kind of gearing up for the legislative session. So there will be some stuff around cesspools, plastics. We'll see what kind of comes up. But January through May is the legislative session and 2020 is an election year. So we really highly encourage everyone to register to vote. It's going to be a vote by mail. You can vote in your underwear or your pajamas at home. So just register to vote at your current address. Super easy. It takes a minute to do online and register as a Democrat if you want to vote in the presidential primary. So that's like my little civic engagement. Do you have any final words? You know, I just say that watching Bill Forty pass over the last 10 years and that development, we've engaged so many people, thousands of people. And I just want to empower people. You can turn government around. And it's so exciting to be part of it. It's really fun. And I think that's what people don't understand. So get involved and let's make Hawaii the best place it can be. Yeah, awesome. Well, thank you so much. This is our show.