 You're listening to barbell logic brought to you by barbell logic online coaching for each week We take a systematic walk through strength training and the refining power of voluntary hardship Hello, and welcome back to the barbell logic podcast I'm your guest host of Jonathan Sullivan joined once again by Noah Hayden for our invited barbell Prescription series of barbell logic podcast. We're very pleased today to be joined by Grace deal athlete John Clawson Some of you may know about him. He's our 94 year old athlete at Grace deal and Today we're going to talk about how we train masters at Grace deal and at barbell logic Our proper approach to that particular population with a special emphasis on exercise Selection in that population once again our guest interviewer is going to be coach Noah Hayden He's a barbell logic online coach and he's my associate coach here at Grace deal Thanks for joining us Noah. Howdy, and John. Thanks for coming in today. My pleasure. All right, Noah. Take it away After talking about all of the sort of standard exercise prescriptions on the last episode We have to address that elephant in the room, which is as people age they tend to accumulate injuries and Conditions develop or advance joints get replaced mobility changes and All that stuff has to be dealt with which requires some modifications to that sort of Conventional approach and what better guest for us to have on this topic than a man who has accumulated many things in his lifetime John so John is a great example of a lifter needing not special but specific modifications for this situation individually Tailored right modifications for an athlete in the tenth decade of life. Yeah. Yeah, and he's a pretty interesting guy So yeah, that's good too. He is indeed So this is the part where we ask you to tell us about yourself John. Well, I'll talk a little bit about myself. I Was born in 1926 November 25th, so Coach is a little premature and making me 94 excuse me 93 Yeah, my insurance age is 94. So we'll go with that. Well, I was born in Omaha, Nebraska. I Grew up there went to school there When I was 18 well, I graduated from high school when I was 17 so I was able to get in a year of College at Iowa State University in Ames, Iowa before being drafted into the army in March of 1945 so and for those listeners who may not be aware there that there were some ongoing issues in 1945 that made being drafted in the army at that particular time in history Yeah, we're a world war two was still on On both fronts both in Europe and in the South Pacific But shortly I got drafted. I got a year of school in College and I went into the army for a little over a year and a half and The war ended about a couple weeks after I was drafted in Europe and we went through infantry basic training I was trained to be a infantry replacement to Bolster the armed forces in the invasion of Japan and the atomic bombs were dropped in August and That was about the time that I completed basic training. So I continued on in the army Fort Benning, Georgia for another year Infantry radio and was discharged in 46 Did you go back to college after that? Yeah, I came back to Omaha Metriculated back into Iowa State and I went three and a half years on the GI Bill Majored in general ag originally I was going to join my dad and his farm management and real estate business But I changed my mind. I wanted to utilize some artistic abilities I had so I got a degree in landscape architecture and So that went on in final year of school in At Iowa State, I got my degree Got a job in California as a planning tech mission in the San Joaquin Valley Applied for and got a scholarship to Cal Berkeley When I went back and got a master's degree in landscape architecture So here I was all set up to go into city planning and There were a few changes in my life about that time and I ended up going back to Omaha and joining my dad in his business Utilizing what education I had Both in agriculture and in landscape architecture So it turned out that I owned the business Jompy Clausen Company and We managed farms in three or four states in Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, South Dakota, Kansas little in Missouri and That went on later I sold my business and went in with a bigger company Get the same work, but didn't have the headaches of Running a business running a business pretty large business. Yeah Some of us present at this table. No, God. Yeah anyway in 1992 I retired Mary and I my late wife and I had five children and They were all gone except our youngest who was a Had physical handicaps he had cerebral palsy So the three of us decided to move to Oregon Where the temperature was a little more cooperative and for Aaron our son who used a wheelchair So we moved to Oregon Hillsborough bedroom to Portland and I lived there for 22 years Mary died nine years ago and About seven years ago, I'd say I decided that I I was 85 86 87 Time for me to get a little help and I had two daughters living in Michigan so I moved to Michigan and found a home and Retirement facility where I live now for about six and a half years Well, while I was here and now we're getting into the Restill exercise part and I was feeling like I was a little old. I was I wasn't moving well In my younger days. I did a lot of jogging. So aerobically I had taken care of myself, but otherwise the Musculature had Kind of disappeared and I felt that I needed Some strength training why strength training specifically like where did you know one one of the reasons that triggered me? I could see other people in the Independent living Facility where I lived of falls were always a danger. Sure sure and that was a critical part and and I I love living and I was The envelope a little bit there. Yeah, and I thought well, I've been blessed with a Few extra years. Let's see what we can do with it and I also like to read. So I've been reading quite a bit of Deepak Chopra. He's written about a hundred books. He's an MD who has gotten into Holistic medicine and Quantum physics and that sort of thing it interested me and part of his research and experience Was that you know older people and I'm I'm speaking about people My age at that time in the 80s They could accommodate a strenuous exercise So I started looking around and I checked with the staff at the place I was living and they looked around and they found this doctor Johnson Sullivan who was working with older adults in in weight training So we had Sully come over to our place and Make a presentation with the possibility of Setting up some kind of a facility and in our Retirement facility to accommodate our patrons there our time and what I remembered about that is like obviously that Never materialized we never really developed a facility over there at that place And so John was like well, yeah, okay, but I'm gonna do it anyway and And so he ends instead of us going to him he came to us. Oh, so they came made his presentation I've done little research and I Kind of indicated there was some studies made in Canada. I think and I Asked dr. Sullivan if he was aware of it and he was very receptive and he said yes, and he he didn't take over he let me do the lead and He of course knew all about these studies and Yeah, I said well, you maybe you'd like to see where I live and we went up took a look at my apartment About that time I can remember as we were walking out. I said, you know, I'd Like to get into the program could we set up something sure? He said let's make an appointment. So that's what we did and in about a week or two I went to the gym and That's where I lifted the broomstick and Got up out of the chair and so, you know that that kind of leaves us nicely into What we do here. So and I remember that day very very clearly because You know, you were a couple of decades older than the oldest client. I had worked with at that time I think with maybe one exception and bizarre and I remember being a little bit nervous about it and your daughter to came with you and Like so this was all under her eagle eye. I remember to came the first couple of sessions This sort of keep an eye on me and you know, make sure I didn't break you and After a couple of sessions, she's like, yeah, okay, this is fine and and she's she stopped coming after that but I remember that first session and That's what we do. It's just a slightly more careful and nervous version of what we do with everybody else We brought you in and we assessed your your movement patterns. We and I was 89 at that time 89 just to set it was 2016 2016. Yeah, so we you know, we were able to ascertain Pretty quickly that you were not going to be able to do the overhead press We weren't even trying to have you do a barbell squad at first We just wanted to see whether you could sit down and stand up out of a chair under your own power I can't remember whether we had you do a kettlebell deadlift at first or not Yeah, and so we determined also very very quickly that you wouldn't be able to do a Standard bench press. Yeah, I couldn't stand up straight. I still can't right and but you also couldn't lay down flat That's right. Right. Completely horizontal. Yeah, I couldn't lay completely horizontal You got a little a little bit of kyphosis of the upper back But it was basically the same thing that we do for everybody else. So, okay He can do squats out of a chair. Yeah, I don't think he ever had to do assisted chair squats he was able to just sit in the chair and squat his way up and We very quickly determine. Okay overhead press not for you You're not gonna be able to lock the bar out over your shoulder So we had you doing curls pretty much from the start and then an inclined bench press so we elevated the bench so that you could bench press at an angle and You were able to go from kettlebell deadlifts to standard deadlifts Pretty quickly and deadlift was always your strongest exercise In fact as we'll discuss later you ended up taking the deadlift to competition Yes, and then we were able to progress you over time from Plain old standing out of a chair squats that was your squat for a while and then we were able to have you gobbled squat so we went through a phase where you were gobbled squatting and Then we had you do Barbell squats We put the straps on the barbell on a 15 pound barbell so that you could hold the bar on your back And once we got you strong enough we got you to the point where you could start with the safety bar and That's what you did going forward. You started with that with that heavy Bar weighs 70 pounds. Well, we think so Actually, there's been some questions raised about that, but that's neither here nor there. Anyway So you were able to safety bar squat and then we were able to add weight to that and I believe we've gotten you up to a 170 175 pound safety bar squat before the COVID pandemic. Yeah, I think it was around 170. Yeah, that's really fantastic. It is fantastic, especially because you know our listeners can't see him But John he's a very tall lanky guy But it's a good day when he comes in and tells me that his body weight is 200 pounds So that's pretty extraordinary for somebody in their 10th decade to be squatting 170 pounds And these are below parallel squats by the way people that mr. Klossin does knees out hip drive the whole thing the whole thing is there the only thing that's different is that he's doing it with The safety bar Because you can't hold the bar A box to yeah, but the box you never rest your weight on the box That's for measurement, right the reason we use the box in your case is because the proper reception For whatever reason just isn't there anymore. You don't know whether you're high or deep You know we had the problem of you actually going too deep for a little while and getting too relaxed in the bottom And then your very next rep you'd be like six inches high So you just didn't know where your butt was so we put this like really flimsy little box It wouldn't support his weight Especially with a bar on his back with this box in him so that he touches it and he knows he's the depth and he drives So it's a it's a box squat with safety bar, but it is below parallel and you're not resting on the box bench Press we've gotten you to Where about 90 pounds 90 pounds. Yeah, our Curls who cares what you curl? I mean it's like I think we've gotten you up to 65 pounds something like that on the Curls and those are for sets of eight We have you do those kind of like hypertrophy sets and then there's your deadlift and You've deadlifted 250 pounds in the gym. Yes, and Then John made an extraordinary journey a couple of years ago now. Is it been a couple of years or just a year? No at times going a little faster. Yeah, it's about it's about a year. Yeah. Yeah, rub it in John It was the last October. Oh, he got it in his head probably infected by Carson Loffer The you know this idea in his head that he wanted to go to a strength lifting meet and compete the deadlift he couldn't compete the press and he couldn't compete the squat, but he could compete the deadlift and so we trained for that and The independent living facility where you live Decided that they were going to make a documentary about that And I would strongly encourage anybody listening to this podcast to go and check that out It's available on Vimeo. Just go to Vimeo and search for outlifting life outlifting life with John Clausen and it is a Beautifully produced documentary. Yeah, very well done. Yeah, very well done and you will see what happened when John Clausen went to Chicago and deadlifted 235 pounds in competition. It's just an extraordinary achievement and Really a beautiful documentary about that whole process and a pretty good look at your life, too I mean, we get to meet your family. We get to meet Erin and your daughters and learn about your life when we get to meet your friends at the independence village and I think what happens in that documentary is it shows us What it can be like yeah to be in the eighth or ninth or tenth decade of life what it can be I mean, that's what you are. You're an example of what life At the extreme of age can be and it can be pretty amazing And that's you one thing came out of that, too There is a group of us men. There are six of us all in our 90s the Mustangers and we call ourselves the Mustangs Yeah five of the men sat at one table and it was a table 51 and and four of us were world war two vets and two of us were Korean vets and So we called ourselves the Mustangs and we kind of brought them into the movie, too There are only five of us left now one of us left us here about two months ago, but Our ages range from 91 to 99 one of our parties going to be a hundred next year So that's been good and we still meet several times a week even when we're even when we were in lockdown because of the virus so your training was really on track before this whole Pandemic hit and now that the world is in lockdown and you can't really come to the Grace deal clinic anymore At least for a little while longer You won't be here on the platform with us Hopefully we'll be able to get you back in the gym here within a month or three but in the meantime you've been on lockdown and Of course, that's been a perfect excuse for you to not train. So you you haven't been training, right? Taking it easy taking it easy Well, I've been training I got some weights from one of my two of my sons-in-law and I was doing some workouts thinking I was doing pretty good and coach Sully comes up with a lockdown program which made it harder but Yeah, so I've been working out according to that program three times a week an Hour each session Monday Wednesday and Friday. I do squats. I do air squats goblet squats curls dumbbell curls and RdL's Romanian deadlifts and we've waited them. I Don't I can't use the barbell where I'm at. I don't have that kind of equipment, but I I do have dumbbells and weights and It's surprising. I Almost dislike doing those exercises when I was coming in the gym but so I know that I'm working at my limits for weights and I'm glad I'm doing them. I would Call it a maintenance program, but it's kind of a maintenance program and when you come back You know, you're not the only person that we've had on this lockdown program And what we have found consistently is the athletes who've done the lockdown program With whatever it is that they can when they come back, they're better off than the athletes who didn't You know, it Certain people have said well these lockdown programs are useless. These body weight parade. They're not useless They help us preserve the movement patterns. They help us stay in the habit of training They help us maintain some level of strength so when you come back you're not going to be doing 170 pound squats and 235 pound deadlifts, but you'll be much stronger than you were and It will take us a lot less time to get us back into something like the range where you were where you were lifting before and I couldn't be prouder of you I mean, he never misses a workout unless he's got like a doctor's appointment or something like that three times a week You know, he's there once again barbell logic has very very generously allowed us to use their platform for our in-person clients during the lockdown so John is is training and uploading his videos to true coach And we have a telephone conversation pretty much once a week every now and then we miss but pretty much once a week we check in and he's been very very dedicated very very disciplined about the whole thing and As he was just eluding like John doesn't actually I don't think he actually enjoys working out all that much, you know, he's like He's like an experienced lifter. He's like a late intermediate lifter, right? I remember once somebody I was on a panel with Jim Wendler and somebody said like what's your favorite exercise? And he's like, yeah, I've been doing this long enough. I hate them all, you know exactly Yeah, and so John's kind of at that stage. He's an advanced lifter really an elite lifter for his demographic So I couldn't be prouder of you shown real diligence real discipline And consistency and when you do come back to gray steel, you're gonna be glad that you did those things So so far this is all, you know, it's pretty triumphant. You found us. You've done really really well here But I wonder if you wouldn't mind talking to us a little bit about the challenges Like what can we can we start with how has this? Pandemic situation. Yeah been challenging mentally and emotionally. Well, I was going to say about the Regular exercises It's it's really, you know, it's lockdown thing. This is groundhog day In the worst way, you don't know what day it is what time it is Whether it's day or night And this is an ancillary blessing to these exercises. It centers you to do those Four exercises three times a week. It centers you it kind of brings you back into reality Some structure to your day. That's the word No Structure it gives you structure And I just know that on monday wednesdays and fridays my morning Even though I only work out for an hour It occupies the full morning. I have to Get up at a certain time eat breakfast at a certain time Always eat breakfast push the protein I've quit logging my meals. I was tired of trying to figure out how many calories I was getting But I've pushed the protein as much as I can Try and hold my weight up My weight at one time before I was exercising. I was up to around 210 210 pounds And then somewhere along the line. I went into a free fall and I went down to 195 I'm back to 201 now and your coach fussed at you. Yeah, he fusses at me But no, like he's always done by like 9 30 Like by 9 30, he's his workout is done Well, I try and stay on about the same as my schedule here if everybody half your age Had that much discipline and consistency the world would be a better place You know, we we haven't talked about uh programming yet. That'll be a future episode But it's funny that as has been said many times before The key ingredient is consistency making it a habit that you stick to every day no matter what The particular set rep scheme and all that stuff is secondary to absolutely show up and do it every single time And and that's where you're strong like you show up And even before the lockdown like you don't miss workouts You show up and you do what you're supposed to do. You do us on your board every single time So, yeah, that's pretty amazing. Well, I I think in terms of the demographic You know in your 90s You you go to that. I think the population The census in 2010 Said there was something like 2.9 million People 90 years old and older in the united states Well, that's the demographic of less than one percent of the population Now when the the idea comes to me that I would like to quit Quit the program. I think Well, hell I've got Four years invested in this already and I haven't missed It would be sacrilegious to quit now So I've got a new gold coach. I hate to Bring it on me all of a sudden in public Because you're gonna force me to do it But I I'd like to go to 100 and be able to deadlift 200 pounds at 100 years old Why only 200? Well No, you're yeah, yeah, you're in this you're in this for the long haul and you know, we've talked a little bit about this before You know the mortality curves as we get older Once you're past 50 your mortality rises steadily From decade to decade in other words your chance of dying rises steadily from decade to decade Until you get to be about 80 85 and then it levels off, right? So like genetically environmentally developmentally You've already like passed all the big filters by that point like so You know, you're obviously the fittest of the fit for your age and you've made it this far So what happens is we find that people in their 80s Their mortality starts to level off and the death rates stops increasing And then we have somebody like you Who's in an even smaller demographic? You're not just the over 90 You're the over 90 athlete like you pay attention to your sleep. You pay attention to your physical exercise you pay attention to what you eat And the other thing I've noticed about you is you're highly engaged You're engaged socially And you're engaged intellectually like this guy is always reading a book and and by book. I don't mean like, you know People magazine or something like that. There was uh that book of philosophy that you were reading by that one Jesuit scholar that you're reading that I still want to get my hands on Yeah, I'm just brought it today, but I want to review it before I give it to yeah so he's always reading something and he's always reading something that's Kind of challenging like not lightweight material like he doesn't read harlequin romances, you know, he's so you are engaged in every dimension of your existence you're engaged with family and friends And you're constantly trying to learn more about the world and about yourself You're engaged physically you're engaged with your nutrition and all of your recovery variables You are the very essence of an athlete of aging like that's you that's who you are And so I think when I look at somebody like you and you tell me maybe sort of half joking I want to do a 200 pound deadlift when I'm a hundred is not a joke I mean, I think there's a pretty darn good chance that that's yeah And the reason I didn't want to say anything you were already questioned me on the 200 pounds Yeah, I don't I think 200 pounds. I think you're even like it when I set a limit I think you're aiming low I think you're aiming low and you knew I was I was going to say that so again I want to get back a little bit though because you're in a unique demographic you face unique challenges So What are those? Well, I tell you the 70s You're still young The 80s you get along just fine, but the 90s well, they're tough and Not everybody has an opportunity to see how tough they are but There are there are limitations. I've got a touch of Parkinson's and I've got some neuropathy my fingers are numb and It's hard for me to tie my shoes sometimes but I can still lift weights and I think probably I think you said it once the squad is the Queen of the exercises and as long as I can Squat down and pick up stuff off the floor that that's where my strength is It isn't where the muscles show of it. It's it's that muscle chain through your whole body that's that's Making you able to go day by day Absolutely true on the other hand, you know, he wears a short sleeve shirt when he works out and I see his videos three times a week And because you know, he doesn't have a facility to bench there So before we were having curls once a week and bench once a week now his upper body stuff is all curls And he's starting to get a little jacked. I mean, he's got some pythons hanging off his shoulders now He's he's he's definitely getting some hypertrophy effect there Looking pretty good. Yeah, so I had to you you're a question on Yeah, I mean so what I'm hearing from you is that there's sort of a qualitative difference between the 10th decade and the 9th decade Absolutely, you nailed it. Yeah so But it didn't stop you and you know, and we have had to overcome some challenges We had a little bit of an issue with an unexplained tachycardia That had to be investigated And I had a right a right knee and a left shoulder problem Right and we have to work around those And then it was a few years ago when I started to notice that you had That pill rolling tremor Yeah, and we got you investigated for that and it turns out you have a touch of Parkinson's It doesn't seem to be particularly progressive though, which is good and we've worked pretty closely I think with your physicians over time And uh, we've been pretty blessed that they're on board. Yeah, they all They all like it when I come in they bring the The young students in because I uh do my medicine and uh u of m And uh, it's a teaching facility So they like the the docs like to bring in the younger ones to see me and uh I show off for them. Yeah, I mentioned they get in year full. Yeah. Yeah So john if someone else your age isn't happy with their level of independence What advice would you give them? Well, it's depending on Nobody's come up and saying I want to follow the program You're on I don't proselyte but uh Everybody knows they made a movie about uh my competition And uh, I've heard a lot of stories where people talk about their parents And how they use me as an example of someone that can do some difficult things and that and that's what I want I I didn't know how to Explain what I was doing to others and I figured well, I'll just do it myself and see how things work out and uh, there have been opportunities to publicize it And uh, it's not for me It's for everybody and they can see an example of someone that can do this I'm sure there's 90 year old people that around the world that are Doing stuff like this, but I'm not reading about them. Not a lot of them. Yeah, not many You know, I'm sitting here thinking, you know, there's nothing that can change the simple fact that, you know, you're A pretty inspirational figure and you know, I know for a fact that you have inspired a lot of people And you know, we've had people come to us and say, yeah, I saw that and like I feel like I'm out of excuses now Right. So and we we made our own documentary about you a few years ago And then independence village made this much more highly produced Documentary and we've actually written you up as a case report and our approach to your programming and so on And I think that you are an inspirational figure and you are an extraordinary figure And I think what we're all working towards is a world where you wouldn't be Right where you wouldn't be so extraordinary and where you wouldn't be nice It wouldn't be that unusual for somebody your age to be under the bar And using that particular form of exercise medicine to hang on to their muscle and their bone and their function And their independence But for now, you know, we don't live in that world. And I think that this is a big part of your legacy. You're sort of a A pioneer for this approach to healthy aging I would hope that would happen and the one thing you have to watch out for just Let your ego get out of the way and just do the program and things will fall into place I think we're writing an upward curve. You got to write sully I think this is happening and it'll be more a common place In 10 years, it'll be pretty common place and we just have to break down the barriers to Implementing programs like this some something look forward to 10 years from now. We'll do another podcast with you We'll talk about your 260 pound deadlift And uh, and how far we've we've come I won't make any comments on that What's I gotta tell you Well once he finished the set Or maybe it was a prowler john pushes the prowler and um Walks back to his chair and sits down and says this is elder abuse And then he got up and did his next problem right, but you know, the the prowler is necessary I don't like it, but It's a way to bolster your aerobics and your uh, uh, stamina stamina. Absolutely. I have a stamina problem And uh, join the club. Yeah, I'll be glad to get back into that That'd be something else to bitch about. Yeah, those yeah Yeah, your first your first couple of prowler pushes or you've pushed the new prowler, haven't you? Yeah. Yeah I like it. It's much better. Yeah, but it's a little heavier. It definitely is It's a it's a little heavier dynamics are a little different. You can get down at it better You'll probably be the The last person to come back to clinic because of your demographic and not so much even because of your demographic But because of the demographic of those around you We're at pains to make sure that this environment is actually Absolutely safe for you and for those that you come into contact with on a daily basis, but you will be coming back And you know, I've told you this before but you are very Very sorely missed here. It is I appreciate that and I've missed coming to the gym the clinic now. We call it Yeah, but uh and bizarre it is just Not the same without you around. Well, she's been my training partner since day one And uh, I think she uh, she and I are Probably two of your better attendees to oh, yeah, never misses never misses. Yeah You are not the truants We have we have one or two truants, but not many really. I'm not many not many No, it's been a great thing for my life. I've been doing enough for Going on four and a half years and I can't imagine how the time has gone by that I keep coming back each time It's been great It's been great for us too and it's it's a program that I I want to see expand and it is I think we're on the way And uh, there'll be more 90 year olds coming into this. Yeah, but you were the pioneer Well, you are a great example, john I remember the first time that I met you you stood up and introduced yourself you shook my hand And instantly I felt it was obvious how present you were In the moment and you don't always feel that from even people my age It was striking a little bit to be frank and I think a lot of people feel that from you I know that you don't proselytize What you're doing is such a great thing to every person that that you pass But I think your example is all the uh all the proselytizing that anyone needs an evangelist by example It speaks for example that yeah, exactly it speaks for itself. You speak for yourself just The way you are and Noah's right like anybody who's ever been around you like you are utterly present Which is the best kind of message, you know, well, I'm glad to get that feedback because That's What I intended all along. I didn't quite know I you take it day by day you live in the present and that movie being made you was uh Nothing that I envisioned at all it it just came about but it does Certainly disseminates the information that I want to do at 93 years old your You know one of the most vibrantly alive people I've ever known and And now you're strong too Go get him. Thanks So, uh, wow, I don't know how to do any better than that. Yeah, John Klosson You are missed. You are valued and you are very special Thank you so much for coming in today to talk to us and to our audience great being here with you guys We'll be back soon. Noah. Thanks a lot. Yep And thank you all for listening to this special barbell logic series on the barbell prescription our Guest today has been John Klosson And I've been joined by my associate Noah Hayden Barbell logic and professional barbell coach and I hope you'll join us next time When what are we talking about next time? We're talking about Programming for masters with our guest Laura Welcher. So please join us then until then this is barbell logic signing See you