 How would you, as me, or what tips would you give to me if I want to get into being an entrepreneur in a technical field? Who should I talk to? What book should I go read? I mean, any sort of advice in how I should change my daily routines or whatever? How should I approach this? I mean, I think what's happening now in Zapier is really in the middle of this, which is this space of no code. You know, I'm definitely using this too much, and I have to stop doing that. I'm not going to pick up on it anymore, no worries, I'm not going to... The area of no code has become a thing. It's become really powerful, and it's something that's funny. My original product that became Google Sheets, the one that our startup did before we got bought by Google, was a no code product. It turned a spreadsheet into a web app. So you, as a non-technical person, if you could build it in a spreadsheet, you could launch it as a web app. And it was super powerful, but very niche, and it was super early, this is like 2003. And so I think a non-technical person should try to find tools that help them build technical things or as close as possible to technical things. And I'll include things like Photoshop in there, you know, and things that at least you can express your idea really clearly in a digital way. I guess that's the key, is to be able to show someone. And it's something that I find it's really a prevalent issue, which is there are so many great founders to be, people that could be founders, that are non-technical, that don't know how to deliver something that is on a technical platform. And they need technical co-founders, basically. But before they do that, I think they can find tools that help them implement things that seem technical, that didn't require a lot of technical skills. So there are tools like it, so if you can do it in a spreadsheet, because that's somewhat technical, but not that technical, you can use something like Glide to turn it into an app. You know, Glide is a really cool way to turn a spreadsheet into an app where you can use, there's a protocol bubble, which, you know, lets you build something as an online app. And it's a little technical, but it's leaning on the no-code area. And then, you know, there's plenty of things that kind of guide you to the point where you're expressing your idea enough to know if it's a great idea so people can look at it and say, oh my God, I want that. And then you can say, ooh, it's not quite ready, you know, but at least I know people really, really want it. And I think it's a good idea to be second to attract a technical co-founder and then, you know, then my advice is be ready to give up half your stock and just make sure you do that, you know, bring somebody on that has a real stake in the success. Definitely. And don't you also think quite honestly, at least this is what I sometimes think, that I'm a bit full of crap when I say I'm a non-technical person, what does that even mean really? Like there's no predetermined category of, there's, you can, I mean, you become an MIT PhD in computer science, but that's not a prerequisite. You can always pick up a new skill if you put your mind into it in some way. That's right. Yeah, that's kind of an appendix to Isaac's question. I think, you know, I was about to get to that, that, you know, basically most people could probably learn to do it. But what is the extent to which people should learn to code? And not maybe now all people, but, you know, founders or people who want to be involved with technical, product-driven companies, should the, should basically every founder know at least some code? Because what you often hear is that, you know, the clash between business people and technical people, because the business people don't understand anything. And then, you know, it is eternal battle. And it would all be solved by the business people just learning how to code a little bit. And you know, the same is true probably in reverse. But what do you think about this argument in general? So I have, I think a different view depending on, I'll call it stage of career or motivation and desire, there's incredible value to learning, period. Like full stop. Learning technical skills is one of those things that's incredibly valuable. And mostly because there's so much opportunity in using technology to solve problems. Like that's just, so if you love solving problems and you're willing or curious to learn technology and you want to learn new skills and you're at a point in your career where, hey, who knows? I just don't know. Maybe I'll love it. Maybe I won't. Maybe I'll get into it. Then absolutely it's worthwhile. And then second is to understand, learn it enough just so you understand it so you can talk to a technical person with some meaningful, you know, material, you know, you could, you could understand what they're saying and they can understand what you're trying to express. So somebody recently just asked me, you know, and I do advisory sessions a lot and somebody said, hey, I don't know enough technology. I need technical help. I don't even know. And she said relational databases. And I think I need a relational database and I'm thinking, okay, well, she's already exposed to fact like you were saying that she's full of it. She's a little technical. She knows what a relational database is and she knows that she needs one. Then she's got just enough and that's super valuable that she's got that because then she can talk about what she needs and talk to someone who is technical and they can say, oh, yeah, I can do that for you. And it is relational database tech that you need. But I don't think every like just to go right at the answer. No, every founder should not learn to code. I think what they should do is find the complementary skills they need to create that company, create that product, take advantage of this opportunity they see, but they don't personally need to do it. That's like immediately I feel the wrong assumption, which is people do things themselves. That's just not right. And if you want to try to do something yourself, go redhead and it's awesome. I do something myself. I have like, you know, little side hustles that I love doing myself because it's more of a hobby. You know, but it's not, that's not the way to build a business. The way to build a business is to build a team. And that starts with finding it either a technical co-founder or a technical people that are as passionate as you are. But technical skills are hugely valuable.