 We are in our pre-session. Let's go around and go fast and give a red card. No, you're just, yeah. We're just wrist names here. Oh, Chiquita Yarbrough. Yeah. Aaron Rodriguez. Martyn Martin. Shumpei. Shumpei. Cindy Lullipairi. Tim Waters. Carol Fingers. Sandy Senor. Don Quintana. Eugene May. Alex. So, let's go around really fast and give our board information updates. No, first of all, we're going to go with Sammy Seger. You wanted the first five minutes? Yeah, that's okay. Yep, absolutely. Okay. So, Valerie Dodd sent you this last week. And we've heard back from a few people. I just wanted to make sure, yes, it comes up. And then we'll fit. And then we'll have these things that you change up. And do you want to bring this back for a formal adoption at the next regular session? I mean, I feel like we're a bit late because we've been working on all these things for a while. Yeah. We'll whisper it back to them. And nothing's changed from the... Nothing's changed from the one that you mentioned. Yeah, I thought it was an excellent capture of what we talked about at the retreat. And so, I thought that we had good consensus at that time. I had a lot of improvements I wanted to make to the transportation picture because I felt like it started in the middle and ended in the middle without a clear state of the objectives and stuff. And I just got behind it and realized that today isn't the day that the comments were due. So, life might happen to midnight. Yeah, of course. Of course. Of course. Absolutely. We just want to make sure that it reflects what you're talking about because we will base communications and things around this. I mean, I would agree with you, Marcia. In my mind, this is exactly what you talked about during your retreat. So, we want to make sure that as we produce packages for you so that you can take notes or that we post it, that it really is what you're looking for. If you are talking about the picture, this is the transportation roadmap. It's the sustainability plan. Yes. And we've already approved that. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. The future needs to be... That's right. Yep. The future needs to be more serious. And a lot of stuff has happened since then that is not showing here. Yeah. I think that's true too. We'll always be the case because we're always moving. And hopefully, we are always moving forward. We need to go. That's right. They're part of the... Yes. Yes. We absolutely... Part of the need for the timing issue is... So, as we go through the budget, the budget ends up putting on this document. Yes. We are the process of aligning the budget with this plan. So, we want to make sure that in general, yes, we're in the right direction, right? Yes. So, what you'll see is I'm creating a matrix of positions and it's a little nuanced because things are hitting multiple categories. But I'm taking one. We're going to find this position where it hits core work and it also gets housing. And in another position, make it core work. It may not directly hit some of these things, but it actually hits your goal in terms of whether it would be the goal of people in terms of your children are most fortunate to be born raised. And so, things like that may be things related to rewind, which is really getting at issues. So, while it doesn't necessarily hit transportation, early childhood, or housing, it's hitting core work that we're doing, but it's also hitting the aspirational goals. So, we're working that out. So, when you see the budget, you'll see things presented as it relates to the stock exchange. Okay. In addition, you do have to evaluate. You're also next month. Another thing that I have concern about is that we did discuss looking at the budget. And we were going to have a study session or a pre-session, which is really a study session on that. And it hasn't happened yet. Does that mean that there's going to be no priorities in the budget, in the 2024 budget to address that? And we have to wait until 2025 because some of the things that, you know, I think we were talking about giving feedback from the people from more street teams than just ours. And we've got the New Boulder County efforts for soft attention and stuff like that that is really important and aligns with what their recommendations are. And also aligns with the public's feelings, which is miraculous. That never happens. And so, I really feel like it would be important to get consensus about that at some time. I believe that's the schedule I know Christina was working on. Yeah, I think we're shooting for September. Okay. I feel like that's too far out. That's what I'm already writing. Too far out to affect the budget much. The budget has some of that already, right? I think so. Part of it, we have the mental health fund, too, that I don't think we've tapped into that we're kind of holding a little gap because we're seeing the issues there in a lot of cases. I think there's overlap with that and the housing authority and their issues. So, I don't think we need to cut that, Marcia. Matt, your direction was to bring back a larger group of folks and have Christina was working on that and trying to do that. Okay. Yeah, these aren't the only things we'll be doing. Well, there's a lot of stuff in that. Yeah, that's exactly right. That court should be 90-plus percent of what we're doing, right? Yeah. I should write you my mouth shut because I'm not going to be through this conversation if I'm wrong, but when I open this up and I see tasks and timelines tied to our primary areas, I like that. And then I ask the question, so if this is going to be a council meeting, what do you need from council meetings? Because I see a lot of staff, or I don't see it assigned to anybody, but I'm making assumptions that's a staff pass, a staff pass, a staff pass. Do you need anything from council leaders? Do you have this coming in? So, what is it? Why wouldn't that show up? Now it becomes a real work, for a city council. I think the first piece of it is making sure that these are your priorities, understanding what other things are not the priority. And certainly, a huge piece of your job is to improve the city budget. That's going to be aligned with this, and that's a role of the city council, is to ensure that when you see the budget coming down here, all of that is aligned with these priorities, and that you're supporting that. And that as other things kind of come up, recognizing that we are keeping an eye on the mall is really the importance of our policy goals. Do you want to add anything to that? Yeah, I think, so I think when we look at this, I think A, what Sandy just said is the most important piece is keeping our eye on the mall, because it's always really tempting, when we have a document like this, when people start bringing issues to us, then we start, oh, let's do this, let's do this, let's do this. And when we get into that mode, we actually start doing this through capacity, and it actually slows everything down, because we're not able to handle that. So that's a piece of, I think, what we mean. You know, when we talked about affordable and attainable housing, and when we look at all the work that we're doing on housing, I think the other piece on that, which I think is the most critical piece from a council is, you know, if we're going to, you know, I've said this before, we're going to be committed to this, we kind of need to do it, because oftentimes, probably one of the most, on what I'm trying to say, one of the most difficult areas to deal with is affordable and attainable housing, because we know that's going to create growth, we know that's going to change character and neighborhoods, and when we deal with kids, you know, aren't we going to stay focused on this, because as we connect it to the budget, when we look at, you know, I'll just tell you, you know, we have a million dollars annually that we put in for affordable housing. We will have another million dollars if you all approve it. At least today, we just preface that, because we're still working through issues. You know, we want to move up the attainable housing back to $600,000 in ongoing, with $400,000 at one time again, trying to hit that million dollar goal and we have all these state dollars. And we'll talk a little bit about it in the housing authority meeting, but, you know, for us to go to the state and get this money, once you sign the agreement, you've got to go. Because if you don't, then they're putting some pretty happy all that provisions in it. So I think it's staying focused, and we committed, you know, I think to your question, there are times where I don't think we know what we need until we bring something back to you, but generally, here's where we need help. I think we need to do better at that. Yeah. You know, the first time, which was now five years ago, that I think Tim asked that question about, well, what part does the council play? And we ended up with a work plan that had things on it, like council reading to children. Which is not really what that question means. The council is, it really is, what areas of policy are insufficiently defined. So I can think of a good example. I was at the BIC meeting a week or so ago, and they were talking about, well, so what is implementing vision zero do? And then we're there, and then we're there, and they said, well, we don't really know. We don't have a policy yet. We have to define it. And though you have to implement it, fill in then, the council should define it. And there are some priorities that, well, you know, so for example, bike path connectivity, right? When we tear up streets, we put a bike path on the new street, but it may not connect to anything. They can be bridges to nowhere. So a policy change would be, change the order of priority in which of the algorithm that decides when we do street maintenance. So the bike path connectivity card, you know, bike's head is a higher priority than it is now. And that's a policy decision. Okay, that's a really good point. And another thing is that I think the council needs to support each other. For example, and I asked him about the early childhood, I felt that maybe more of us should have gone to testify with the Boulder County commissioners on the early childhood instead of just you showing up. And I feel the same way about RTD. I don't want to carry the water. We need more people screaming and yelling at them at their meetings and saying, this isn't going to work, because it's just like on Jones here again. So anyway, do you have what you need? I think this was good. I think so. The other thing I was going to say is, this is a city's priority, so vandalizing that in your public meetings and in your discussions with residents, I think so. What are you going to do? Will you still use the sense of rivalry if you have changes by tomorrow morning? Tomorrow morning. Tomorrow morning. Yes. How can I stay up this morning? It's completely up to you, but how about tomorrow noon? Oh, that's luxury. Yeah, there you go. Do you have any final warning changes? Do you want me to bring this back for official adoption? We've been working on it since we got that direction from council effort. But we didn't know whether you wanted us to bring it back for a follow-up action. Do you have to? Let me hear. Yes or no? Do you think we need to adopt it for the way that it counts? I would say yes. Okay. In me, I'm going to say, again, take that graphic and blow it up and post it someplace. So we can turn to it and say, how does this square with this? Yeah. All right. Everybody agreed with that? Yeah. I said yes. I used that lamb and did it. Yeah. Yeah. We could bring that back for formal adoption. I do have a question. So on our work plan, we have enlisted the housing, these three components, where equity, safety, sustainability, I guess if an issue comes up, that is in regard to equity. I mean, it does have impacts on all of these. Is that something that then, because even though it's not stipulated on these downed heat, does things start to pop up? Oh, sorry. And there are plans. Yeah. There isn't a plan for equity and sustainability. Right? You've seen a lot of that. Yeah. So in the previous session, you all talked about equity. We talked about, really, when we look at this, we look at core services and I think we're going to do the puzzle piece. Is equity, safety and sustainability is really integrated in the core work that we do? And so it's how do we now start building that into the fabric of the organizational DNA. So you all made a motion to budget cycles ago in terms of our priority-based budgeting to where equity is a component of that. So it's really looking in there. And so for example, on the transportation side, I'll give you an example on the transportation side and the future of transportation in Division Zero. When we started looking at how we layer positions in that one of the things we realized is before we had an engineer, we actually need to add somebody in the neighborhood services and we need to add a planner because that's really the foundation of Division Zero. So what we're putting on is that equity lens to try to go, how are we engaging in that conversation and it's not necessarily an engineer to be the first. So that's where you start seeing it really becoming embedded operationally what we do. Even the how we look at how we spend money at parts, how is it distributed, how are we spending our transportation dollars. So that's really starting to just get integrated into what we do daily. Everything we do should have, should be having an eye towards an equity lens as well. And we've always had very strong support. Because in the end, when you have a fully equitable system, people from all walks of life will feel that impact. They'll see the results. And so that's, you know, I think as we start moving along and we're hearing constituents, hey, you know, this car park or whatever I'm thinking of, places in Ward 3 that maybe are neglected or are kind of like put off the radar, what are we doing to kind of bring that back? So I'll give you two examples. I'll give you real-world examples. We were looking at cameras. Carbon came in and said, hey, I have this money from the neighborhood improvement graph. And we need to look at how to put this in these parts because these parts are being impacted in this way. So we start shifting real time so that we can take our qualified census tracts and put money into those and balance it with others. Okay, thank you very much. And there are two things. I'm going to flip this agenda to do Gordon Commission updates last because there are two things that I think that we need to really talk about. And the first one is the minimum of living wage and both commissioners lead the Lochini and talked to me twice this week and Commissioner Lochini said she was going to be talking to all of you as well. I don't know if she is. The conversation I had with Commissioner Levy today was interesting to me because she explained to me that the county was only asking for the very first part of this minimum wage. I haven't heard this before, which is the 1561-69 per hour increase. The rest of it is going to be a different conversation at a different time. And the incremental increases that I'm talking about with the $25 an hour wage will be discussed in the future date. And I said I never had heard that. So, and I had just talked to Marta on Friday about this, trying to get us to put in an ordinance. I personally feel that they're not on the same page. And it's really difficult to put in some kind of an ordinance where you don't know what you're talking about because that was not what I personally heard at the presentation they gave. And she said, oh, it was only the coalition that was pushing the incremental and it's up to $25 an hour. And I thought, I thought, well, I'm forward. That's not true. That's not true. So I texted Aaron Brockett this afternoon and said, where is your council on this? He said, we are unclear and we will discuss it on the 24th. But Comedienne Lorchman is sending a minimum and I emailed her to see if she gave, said to that survey. She told me, I said send it to Sandy and also to Scott Cook. But then I emailed her later this afternoon before the meeting and said, on second thought, send it to all of council. It's basically a survey on the minimum in which I have no idea what it says. So I want to go around really fast and get everybody's feel on this because Commissioner Levy also told me she wants an ordinance from the two highest employment centers in the county which are Boulder and Longmont. And I said, I didn't say anything but I thought, you know, you want us to make a law. I have a really hard time to put an ordinance in other our employers telling you what they must do at this point. So that's my opinion. Just to remind y'all the current direction is for me to sit on the steering team with the members of the consortium and do community involvement as well as an economic analysis to bring back to you so that you have what you need for a 20-25 potential implementation if you were to do that in the first place. So that just so you know, that's the current direction. I know the chambers have freaked out and they're sending surveys also right now about the county's... I'd say that. They must have gotten it, but just FYI, Marja told me she is going to see you for one of those meetings. Are they at the naming wages at the consortium? No, it should have to be different. So according to the bill, if we're enacting a minimum wage law, a local government shall consult with surrounding local governments and engage stakeholders, including chamber of commerce, small, large businesses. So we're supposed to be having a... We're never in those meetings. And that's the consortium of studies which is made up of long-time... That's what the consortium is doing. You all gave me the direction to sit on that staff team, so I'm on both the community engagement as well as the overall staff team on behalf of the consortium. Can I now... Yes, since you are our liaison... Cindy has been going to those and talking... I even went to a chamber after hour just to ask some questions of chamber members and talk to them about it and say, what are your thoughts? Because we hadn't heard much from the chamber. They kind of gave it to their executive council and then it just kind of sat there not due to the lack of staff making an effort to really try to give some sort of feedback. So that was there. Then I have spoken to Ashley Stahlsman and to Mark Lothman. They all seem to want to push this through. And I said, I was concerned because I was throwing out this idea that maybe maybe it would be better if we looked at things from the lens of if you had some sort of certification because it kept going. It was never about this $15, $60 or whatever amount there. It was about getting to an incremental point and $28, $25. And that was like a lot of folks a little uncomfortable because I think sometimes we want to encourage people to get some sort of education and better themselves and that sort of thing. I know that to operate certain equipment in certain business settings, whether it is a national standard or just an industry standard they say, hey, to do the fryer at McDonald's you have to be certified. To be a teller you have to have yearly training to make sure that you follow all rules and regulations. Those types of certifications are what we're talking about are great examples but there's also first aid and CPR for and babysitting training for people that are dealing with young children in in-care situations and other things like that. But the comment I got from some members of the public when I talked to them were how do you regulate that? That's a problem but there is some aspects of this that say it's how you go about doing that and my feeling is that they're pushing hard but I'm not quite certain I think they've kind of put the cart for the horse You don't have the answers. And they just want some sort of reaction and the thing is that I don't see a lot of movement even if Lauren is pushing really hard over at Boulder I'm not seeing them jumping on it. No, that's what Erin said. And I'm not in some conversations we've had where people are like it's a little awkward question that asks people that I don't run businesses I don't run a business I don't want to assume that people after the pandemic are prepared for that sort of situation and everything so I'm concerned and I'm trying to come up with active ways they haven't said in the legislation that certification part would be there is a valid thing to think about because it also encourages people to better themselves and it's not just saying 16 year old that's answering homesort or being a host or a host that said restaurant is, you know we want them to help support their families and I see the importance I know that we're with that population for 10 years while I was at over tech teaching locational so I understand that but I do think that you still want to make sure there's an education component and that there's a time in there so can I you all are aware Sandy just told me are you all aware of the county's press release? yes but there were a lot of questions I had about that so they announced that they're going to raise the minimum wage for a greater part of the county beginning of January 1st right they're creating an ordinance and my question is because we must follow the county if they put an ordinance in for the county we do not have to follow that do we? okay great you are right you don't have to okay that's what I want to know my other question is should we put this what's the answer? should we well Harold and I talked about this last Wednesday and I think if I understood you correctly Harold that we would like to work in group with some of the local business people in our community both I always feel like Scott Cook is the person who actually knows our local corporate necessarily but the local small businesses we should have two or three of those people and also maybe somebody from the LEDP type of smugglers or Latino community we really need to talk to people before we make a decision your direction to us is to be part of the consortium is what we are but what you have in this I think in this decision is actually a split for the consortium and what's been talked about right to include everybody that you mentioned and have those conversations and I think same as saying that starts tomorrow morning is our kickoff for the community engagement portion of the minimum wage discussion with the businesses and everybody that you mentioned yeah so then I think in a council meeting we should make a decision so that it's public and everybody's involved in that and that message can go back to this county you could absolutely entail the whole thing entail 20 things or do something quicker it's completely your decision we're just working on this thing and just to clarify it's the labor organizations that want a $25 an hour I would say that we as the consortium have not started the economic analysis and that feels high for all of us but I still have questions about how the county's action affects the state law that gives some people some alignments of cities or regions to band together instead of common minimum wage they may have pulled the rug out from under us and I think we need clarity on that from somebody before we even start thinking the other thing that I would like to say about this I had a really interesting conversation with one of our city intons who was her name Kennedy yeah she works at Bricks right she's a part of her own Bricks and she said her mother is crazy over the idea of minimum wage she just has written the zillion letters to Scott Coase he's not a stop this and we talked about the data that was presented most recently by the AAUW that says the disturbances are short and the economy improves for everybody and one thing I did was ask them to resurrect that presentation because we need to now is the time to educate people it wasn't as big an issue at the time but was that to you Tim but you were on the panel it was yeah and the other thing is just as during the pandemic we gave small businesses some help in business planning because most of them didn't even have business plans or had such trivial ones that didn't help them understand whether or storm and I think we need to start teaching people and maybe even figure out a financing plan for helping them get over the hump of an age increase so basically I want to know should we put this on an agenda before November before the election so that this council has saying it as to put it on a council agenda so that we have a voice with a direct message to the Boulder County Commissioners I haven't been in support of them but I have a question for Sandy we have a livable age here 1740 an hour and so how is it that we should be trailing there's this image or idea that we're somehow trailing the county in being proactive and responsive our livable rate wage is only applicable to companies who live in the city not all businesses within the city just if you have some sort of contractual agreement with the city in some way selling them small wages to make sure we require that you pay a living wage okay so the other issue that came up with this and I took it to look at nonprofits a lot of them get all their money from grants and they make their budgets based upon how much money they're going to get from grants which affects their payroll so now they're going to be any exemptions in this or nonprofits because if they don't get their grants chances are they're not going to be able to pay their people I didn't like the comment at all and there won't be any exemptions so there's a lot to discuss in this and I don't think that that kind of goes back to my whole point about the certification of some sort of them making it where there's some sort of logical pie into why somebody you know like our relationship with businesses that we say this is what you got to have a living wage standing those to make it sensible to the Republican I have to have this guy he's got to be you know certified or whatever to do his job we should be paying him for a wage that is comfortable I have a problem with government getting involved in businesses and what they pay that's not our role at all what they pay I mean as long as we have a minimum wage job to tell them who and their employees should be paid what based upon certification that makes me nervous okay are there any more comments about this yeah I have a few questions I mean because I get a little frustrated that they went ahead and when I sat on the working room early before council member McCoy you know we were looking at having a regional approach because if one city is paying one amount for a minimum wage and other cities were competing with each other and it could negatively impact us and our municipalities so we were going ahead anyways in these unincorporated areas it seemed to kind of go against what we in the working room had had all came to a consensus on and then my understanding reading the bill and talking to our CEA the Colorado Education Association is very invested in this there's been a lot of conversations about this piece one of the things was that the working room I was under the impression that the stakeholder group was going to be the one that provides input on what that rate incremental rate raise would be so why are we setting, I don't even like the idea of us seeing numbers right now because it's supposed to be in the hands of all the stakeholders our Chamber of Commerce the other thing is how many businesses and I'm not thinking more about especially our small businesses that are already paying their employees about the human wage so if we're already trying to set something maybe they're already halfway there so yes, exactly so I think by just going ahead and moving forward without having that information we just don't have enough information to pursue so all of these comments I think are what we should be saying at the council meeting to back up how you're going to vote so just saying it right now to us we need to say it to the public that's all I wanted to know is should we bring this forward in a timeline that works for the commissioners so so one more thing I know I've already said a lot but some of the suggestions being made here I believe are inconsistent with the state law and we the consortiums need to work within the framework of the state law so I wonder if Sandy could give us a presentation and give a presentation before council because the union people came with they didn't set that frame and so if you could set that frame and sort of regularize the conversation and make sure that everybody has the same idea of what the councils prerogatives are and what the consortiums prerogatives are that would probably calm things down because I think the unions for the aggressive proposal has kind of stirred things up well you remember when we did have that presentation I was a little surprised that that group was going to be there I thought it was going to be Jeff Catton and he's the union I did not want that group to be there at all it wasn't good so two things on this just to close up here the folks that I am speaking with from the other communities like theory they are coming across in the way they have said things in kind of a cold sort of not necessarily a confident sort of way to proceed with this they feel like their communities would not be in that much more supportive of it than what we're here to hear the second thing is that I thought our interns were surveys and everything so that was talking about are we getting some information from them so I released the intern information back out to our consortium today I'll interview you remember I summarized that and sent that to our other partners in Boulder and in Boulder County as well as to the working groups at this point the economic group just started last week that economic the economic impacts group so I sent them your feedback our community involvement one is tomorrow so I have that feedback for them as well as tomorrow the interns are done next week they finished their 90 hours in their projects they will present to you all really soon but it is the working teams now that will put out RFPs and actually try to get that information based on the feedback that you gave the interns and the other community can tell us a little bit more so right now we're on a track to bring you back information preparing for a 2025 implementation if you made that decision in October of 24 so what I will do is I'll put this back on the agenda I will lay out the process that we are currently in as well as the commissioners request for an earlier decision now for a 2024 implementation I'll attach the information from the request release and then you guys you all can decide how you move on thank you we're going to do this before election day it will be helpful once something comes up in the agenda if we were clear on how we would finish the sentence I will we will seriously consider a minimum wage issue of plan or if because how regional it is what we need to know from other commissioners whether or not there are some set standards you know or expectations whatever that is because as I'm sitting here listening you know you've got the county commission doing one thing you've got a consortium in something else you've got the labor council in spite of what Jeff Goodman's folks said there's no evidence that they're working together some of the discussion that's what I found out in my comment that I was could you set an example for what working together looks like on this particular issue it's just gone in the opposite direction but if we're going to have something and I'll tell you when I see it on that agenda what will be in my head what I'll be looking for is what's the checklist or what's the continuum from acceptable to excellent or unacceptable to acceptable on a set of criteria level of how much clarity is in the business how does that vary based on business size what do we to what degrees on a scale one to five are other municipalities committed bing bing bing bing something like that every municipality it would be nice to put that in front of the commission or the labor council to say you'll get decisions from us when you've answered these questions until then go do your work I think that's a great idea and Tim perhaps all of us should put down our questions and we give them to Sandy to make up a list of what it is we would like not just answers to but a working group has the working group it goes on a framework like that every mayor could take that to every council and say look we've agreed on this or some approximation of it to hand back to folks but we're not even going to waste our time on this until you've done your work and I got a call from Martha as well and I thought we were going to get her surveyed one survey in common data based on what the survey is unless there's a regional approach I'm out they're trying to get the regional approach I did that I'm very nervous about that and there I have that first summary from your first interview perfect so can I ask a practical question on this next week we have questions fairly what does the agenda look like next week why is that it has that HVC appeal yeah 20 seconds pretty heavy 29 it's relatively light but that's not designed for action because it's a study session so we're going to introduce the budget October late October is fine with me so you don't need to do that immediately for the commissioners you can also discuss it during a study session to get Harold right we wish on the airport so thank you for listening and talking about this because it's really difficult getting something from one commissioner something different from another commissioner well and I think for you all you can always say here's the direction we get staffed what you all said I think is the direction you've given us in public session to do all of these things you can say we're staying to that direction we'll bring it back in October if that's what you want to do I think what I've heard you all say is what we're doing so is October a good timeline for the rest of you Sandy I'm just going to chime in it cannot be until probably October 24 just pointing that out anticipated boom fine public hearing coming early but I'll do it right now to send you all the direction that I got from you last time as well as the intern report and summary we'll look at our budget calendar we'll let you all know we're in the middle of a session we're going to have to do a pre-pre-session maybe pre-regret is that going to be a short presentation next week something for the public next week that's the other I hope it has exactly as you're in terms of reporting I guess tomorrow so I want to go through the ethics really fast I had Dawn send out I don't know if you've read it but okay I wanted to just give a brief summary of what we've talked about and where we're going to go next steps I'll just go over really fast if you want so it was about my meeting with Eugene and Kerry the CAO's of Fort Collins and Monroe and to the question of how many frivolous complaints did we have I'm not we I'm sorry it was Fort Collins Kerry said that for the 36 years they've had this in place they had 144 complaints and only six of them were about counsel 79 were advisory opinions and 79 were other which could be anything and they all went through the review board which carries out the screening process and that I really want because our staff has been doing too much working physically too many complaints about counsel and other things and they should not be involved because we are self-reliant so and they have nine complaints from 2019 to 22 so there are not a lot of complaints and I think that we would probably be about the same first ethics board Fort Collins was made up of counsel members and the residents didn't like that they said it was biased couldn't be objective so their complaints are made by mail they have a review board it's publicly and their counsel is self-reliant as well but so what we did was discuss what so what we looked at other jurisdictions and Robert's rules and accepted that basically we could only censure and take counselors off the boards and commissions if you disagree with any of this I'm just going to make a flipping joke about peace taking off points and commissions and that's still a discussion no such luck and we discussed giving a 10 day window for the complaint to be addressed this is very important to me that whoever is being accused of something they have a right to be heard so I did want to say that I know that you kind of proposed or whatever probably just really suggestions more than it but fair campaign practices should be I think a separate thing because that covers both candidates and counsel counsel members you know I want input on that I just think that should be a separate process there already is prescription penalties and things like that for campaign violations violations and censure and removal from boards and commissions I think is still just nothing more than a slap on the wrist but that's that's what we're looking at I think we are we can recall we can that's pretty heavy duty and that would have to be a proposal to do that rather than can the counsel vote to recall or does it have to be a public decision according to Robert's rules and chip it up see if I'm stating this correctly that counsel can recall somebody on their own they can put it or vote if we call to oh yeah I said thank you yeah that's right but I didn't put that in there that would have to be something you would want to put in there I'm just going soft well I think that there are some actions that could be in the drop down list haven't there specifically the ones from oh the red book of ethics I can remember but the chain of command violations is a good one I don't know chain of command is doing things that are outside your purview or outside of counsel's purview so for example interfering with another government's process what about interfering with operations that too that's also a chain of command so if I went to David Hornlocker and stood on the table and said I'm going to make your life miserable if you do not do this about the electrification process that would be a chain of command that would make you really mad as well hahahaha I'm writing these in as you mentioned yeah and I think those are really the two two major of chain of command can you think of the third one you have to like both interfere in a situation like if you get some sort of thing like police action in your neighborhood and you start coming into an eye moment this guy yeah that would be chain of command for sure so we need to decide who will be the complaints that remember we talked about a board made up of a lawyer from another jurisdiction a board of selected residents are our own police review board so any other suggestions that's all I remember that we talked about oh and the important part for me right now is I have talked to three of you and you were fine with me taking parts of Fort Collins or the other ones that reflected what we talked about and putting them together in a preliminary epics draft that you everybody looked at the words that the edited the added you deleted because we don't have a working document to work with them so I want to know what way to do this and you want to continue to talk about it a lot more I mean if Fort Collins feels like they have a system that is working well I think you know why are we creating the wheel right through the ones that hired all the consultants yes they are and I'm coming from the teacher mindset where we are all from each other so that's I think that's fine for a start oh no no no that's what I said I don't get what you said I'm not sure what that was I mean to start to start off with our own needs and then after we do that I would go to Eugene to legal no you can't do that are you kidding that's a pencil off so I want to know before we leave tonight is that okay and if anybody wants to work with me to put this draft together please please do but if not can we start working on that yeah your name I just have a little question and I'm not going to be in the next I know but I think for me the so white question is one of the questions and whether or not it's century or whatever I'm still hung up I think that's an important question I'm still on the what problem we're trying to solve I read the summary nine complaints about counselors over 40 years per time but there was no answer to your question about frivolous you know nothing about those where they frivolous or not and if not knowing that it's hard to know whether or not that's a good use of a process that over 40 years you get many complaints and well I don't know if they're frivolous but let me just so I still am not clear on what problem we're trying to solve so when I read the list the kind of startle list and I realized I was out the top of your head it did beg a question for me who's going to decide what's in the drop-down menu is it us? once I transition off what I would say to you is that you think you're the only ones who should identify what are potential ethical breaches I don't remember the public as we'll have a strong view on what should be on that drop-down menu so I think before we start building the list we ought to think about how credible will that list for the process be if the public has nothing to say well I didn't say that the public would know that's my question who would have who would have I did have a question as well I got my attention that you can talk with three of us and I don't want to fight for this but here was my reaction to it I'm not one of those three so who were those three and I don't really doesn't matter but how close does that come to being a role in meeting well it wasn't a role in meeting it was after our last ethics before they left they said we didn't have time to do this I didn't call anybody and ask anybody it wasn't a meeting it was just like maybe they were in the meeting but that begs the question about ethical standards you know and I'm not making any accusations here I'm just saying we have to be really careful about the approach and the language we use in what we're signaling to the community we're going to do that it's more than a virtual virtual virtue it's more than a virtue signal we're serious about this because we're clearing the problem we're trying to solve and this is how we're going to solve so that's where I am I think you made a good point and that's another point here in the final thing before it's adopted it has to go to the public so that needs to be in it was a good suggestion and I did not have a role in meeting actually it was justice we were leading putting our stand how important language is going to become clarity is going to become once we set this up right because that invites oh wait a minute what about this or what about that well what you said you said what are we trying to solve what I am trying to solve is having a tax on council without a counselor having any way of defending themselves to be shut down all the time when they want to speak about what they did or how it was interpreted that has to stop it has to stop with bullying of council it won't completely stop it but there will be a process if someone sees that this is not right what's going on they can go on the website and make a complaint about it and this is about council it's not about the city employees it's not about dogs hooping in somebody's yard those are for the list of complaints so let's go back to what you said this is about protecting council members it's about allowing all council members to have a voice a due process for a complaint to be made that even if a counselor has a complaint about someone on council they need to go through the process and have a review board so if I go back to the problem I've never felt they need to be protected or defended by them I'm a public official I knew what I was stepping into when I ran for election and if I don't want to be criticized I feel like I have to somehow have to do battle with everybody and criticize them and wrong dog I would have been for the last 6 years so from everybody else's perspective do you think we're on the right path yes or no I do think that clarity is very important I do too so I think being very specific as to what this will be solving and if you pull the draft together and we all review it and look at it and make sure that it makes sense I think that's important and I know that when you said if we were okay if I was okay with you putting the draft together you're doing a work up like sure so we can look at it and we can see but at the same time yes I'm still fine if you put the draft together but I do agree that clarity is very important making sure that it's clear as to why this is needed I agree and to me that's why a working document is something that we can work with tweet, add, delete, edit word sniff all of it but until we have that there's nowhere to go into from my perspective what do you think Aaron? I mean as far as just working out with poor colleagues fees or your respective unlawful vastness well it's not it would be just poor colleagues it was the other jurisdictions that would have looked at or had the opportunity to look at the other jurisdictions that Eugene brought up as well as the Roberts Rules of Order I mean having some sort of sample ordinance or something to look through would be a lot more easy to get a conversation and you can go back you all got those other jurisdictions or processes so you can go back and say this wasn't put in there or take this out or what if in March, right? Eugene sent us three and then I got the one for Collins so we had Collins, Green, Stenberg Grand Junction Grand Junction, URI and then for Collins so four plus Roberts Rules of Order so plus I guess it's useful I'd like to say that I feel like we're starting to move over the process because there is no definition of the standard to which a council member should be held and so how can we have a procedure for an enforcement without knowing what we're supposed to enforce so like for those complaint would be social media because it's been named by legal that it's for speech so at some point we probably will be able to discuss that so the state and federal law approach that at this point my life's coming to be in pillars of great career I don't think it's a good use of staff time to be working with this given oh I don't want staff time to work on it at all there was a reference to be able to pass force with my included staff time so I'll give them the opportunity they'll all say no to me so that's all I have so yes or no do you want me to work on this if any of you want to help great we're all busy we're all busy I think you should work on that I don't think it's reasonable yes okay I don't want to be involved that's kind of what I thought okay that's it it's a lot of thought we are going to do the other changing we are doing updates last week I wanted to bring it to the beginning yeah go for it okay you know what there was one update that I really wanted to bring forward and add a recommendation from staff and I'll put it back on staff because they told me to wait to bring it up during our update and so I had met with a neighborhood group with Purdue and it was really in relation to the issue of met houses houses that are just contaminated with meth destroyed we have a mechanism to test one of the things that came up with and in the meeting we had our DA Jeff Satter was there we had another police staff and really you know what I'll just kind of make it short is really what they're asking of us and I think even the police was in line with this is really looking at what our ordinance is what systems do we have in place that might be prohibiting or making it a little more challenging for police to go in and or at least notify neighbors as far as safety is concerned I think some of the things that they had mentioned was the impacts to the neighborhood not just property values but for their safety they're they're not notified when a raid is happening until the swatches yes so we need to either it is operational or is it something that we need to be tweaking at in our ordinance so the request was one thing that they wanted to do was really bring in a task force to create a task force with staff and neighborhoods and what I suggested was possibly having a precession discussion on the topic so police officers are involved and give their input what are the challenges they're seeing and what are some possible solutions that can I'm wondering if this should be the second session where I think there's going to be a name yeah yeah probably yeah probably the next session because there are certain reasons yeah yeah yes that is true okay so that things like that so I think that would be best in the executive session PG and I can brainstorm how but I think there's some operational safety issues that we're going to need to talk to because an example is we've seen this for when you start moving if you have someone that you know is dating who's don't want to notify a neighborhood because you don't necessarily want a neighborhood to hit the person off exactly what happened or they can also receive yeah that's why there's a big kind of up-up when we shift the radius because people have scanners and can hear it yeah I think I mean if council has to discuss it we can probably do an executive session discuss the things that are safety related that may spin off of it okay but yeah there are some of the things that I think okay I mean if council is I think it's a great idea so this is something else in tact because that's what I just want to give a shout out to Molly because she came to the consortium she provided me with information for the consortium of cities and the consortium of cities folks were just she has been just such a incredible powerhouse working with them so it was great to see that and I emailed her and said how wonderful she was and let her know that they were just so appreciative of her and her experience and past of the morning I just want to say real fast that the transportation event the idea is getting some traction I talked to Senator Winter about it and she said it's definitely going to be in the list of finances fiscal finances, this type of transportation and her discussion I'm meeting with Senator Mulcher and I'm on the 5th of September and Representative Jennifer Peralta so they're all very interested because there's built on tax people for transportation we don't have to outside of the box so that's it 2 minute break 2 minute break