 And welcome to Cooper Union on think tech lives. We are your host Joshua Cooper and thank you for joining me today, and my guest, Dennis, but local with the car key human rights protection group. Unfortunately, we are here discussing war is over we must unite for Ukraine now live for liberty for free world tomorrow. The world is currently facing the greatest danger to the common good with Russian rating Ukraine, the global democracy movement rooted in rule of law and human rights is demanding self determination of all peoples around the planet. And Ukraine is a fledging democracy dedicated to freedom and liberty, demanding a better future in Europe. The legal invasion violated the UN Charter article 24, and requires a united response recognizing the human right of all people of UK of Ukraine beginning with the right to life. Dennis, thank you so much for joining us. And thank you so much for doing all that you did prior on human rights and currently do today. Yeah, thank you for inviting Joshar. Where were you six days ago when the legal invasion began. I know your hometown is Turkey. Yeah. Obviously, I was in Harkiv. I was in my office, the Office of Harkiv Human Rights Protection Group, we have a night shifts. And I was on one of the night shift this day and I was tired day before evening before I. I was asleep about eight o'clock in the evening and and woke up in the morning about five a.m. and then I started to read the news and realized that there is a war. And this is it. I said on my bicycle and rolled around to look around and I saw myself in the designs of bombing of bombing the objects on the Harkiv modern lands. I think it was military objects. And I called my friend and said that war began and we started to think what to do next we are. We were trying to evacuate ourselves from the city as far west as possible but we ended up in the city of Sumo. It's about, I don't know, 200 kilometers from Harkiv and now there's no good transport communication. I think there are no trains and we are sort of stuck here and trying to live our usual, more or less usual lives and to fight in some way in this war because this is not just a war between, to fight in size between armed forces it's a war between it's a war with all the Ukrainians or the 40 millions of Ukrainian people. As I see it today. Yeah, no the bravery and beauty of Ukraine standing up for self determination and freedom has really been an inspiration to the world. And Ukraine has become the frontline in a struggle not just between democracies and autocracies, but also maintaining a rule based system where countries are not taken by force so every country in the world should be paying close attention to this. And while it's happening it's definitely weighing heavy on many hearts, and there's devastating consequences for all citizens of the world, it's really a war against freedom. And as you said, these airstrikes by the Russian military are against civilians, and so much is happening. Could you share a little bit about what you've heard about Kharkiv I know just recently, there's been a lot of bombing of civilian spaces, many children dying. Today. Yet today because I'm kind of confused with the dates, day of the weeks and today is the March 1. This is an interesting story about Kharkiv because you probably heard of bombing the administrative building in the very center of Kharkiv the main square the freedom square by the way. Eight years ago on March 1, 2014, there were some buses that came here from Belgrade nearby city in Russia with their agents in civilian uniform they seized this building and the Russian Russian flag was raised by Moscow citizen by the way. That time, they failed with establishing some kind of republic proclaimed republic here but now from 21st February they're trying to to conquer the Kharkiv again they are they came here not in the buses but in the tanks. And they obviously failed again, because there are many people not just armed forces but the territorial defense the voluntary battalions. My, my roommate, the second year university student. He's now fighting in the as a volunteer on the war, and they probably went angry when, when they see this. They, they are losing this again they, they cannot see the city of Kharkiv. Again, I didn't, they, this is just a vendetta. They decided to bomb the main building. They, they think probably if we cannot see it, we can destroy it. We have launched in, I think, nine am a few missiles from the nearby city or the Russian territory territory itself. Because it's pretty close here in Kharkiv about 30 kilometers to the Russian border. Launch the rockets from from their systems. Like Urugano, Grad, BM-21, BM-28 Soviet rockets launching the systems. And, yeah, they never taken civilian objects neighborhoods of Kharkiv. When I, where I personally used to live. Now it's destroyed. And many of civilian casualties. And, yeah, this is terrible and we do not have any other way except to fight for our freedom and for democracy. Now, the entire pretext of Putin saying he was going to need Nazi vacation as a pretext for invading Ukraine, and then hitting the historical Ukrainian Jewish town of Oman. And of course, Vladimir Zelensky, of course, is also Jewish. It's just horrible, but it's been great to see Zelensky standing up saying we are here to counter the misinformation. The fight is here. I need ammunition, not a ride. It has galvanized people inside Ukraine. And also around the world, you see Sweden switching its neutrality German pacifism, also changing its perspective, and even Switzerland has made sure that they've gone from neutral to then holding and putting the funds under hold. What else do you think the world should do regarding what's happening right now, especially with that 67 kilometer long armored vehicles heading towards Kiev now. What, what can the world do to assist. And what are you asking for that must be done now. The main demand from Ukrainians now is, I think, you know the hashtag close the sky to NATO to cover Ukraine from the sky and our armed force can cover the ground. Obviously, I think it's, it's unrealistic to talk about NATO troops here in Ukraine, because of international laws, as it seems to be. It should be the decision of United Nations Security Council and Russia is one of the constant members of United Nations Security Council and this is a big problem and Ukraine Ukrainian representative in UN said, Can you show me the documents that cost Russia to be a constant member here because there was a Soviet Union and Russia is successful Soviet Union it's it's kind of mad thing. As we see today. As, as my president said to America to Americans when they proposed him to recreate you to from Ukraine he said, I don't need a jet I need armor. And this is a scene we need you can NATO cannot provide and Western countries cannot provide to Ukraine with the living living troops but they can provide us with with the ammunition with the. By rock tower. What else. Javelin or other system systems that seems to be very effective here against Russian troops Russian troops and Ukraine recently established an international legend. So the citizens from all around the world can can can be a part of this army and to fight against occupants. Of course, we need to. We need to create heavy economic oppression Russia. What are we trying to do to turn off the swift to turn off with a mastercard payments to block the Russian Center back for an accounts and maybe trade band and other economical sanctions. We've covered a lot, especially it is the violation of the UN Charter that it's not with NATO, but that the UN has responsibility from that UN Charter created in San Francisco in 1945 article 24 prohibits the threat and use of force against the territory integrity, or political independence of any state. And so it's really important to focus on that aspect. I also have noticed the way that Zolensky and your diplomatic or have also looked. At what's going on by bringing up issues beyond the UN Charter, but using all the international instruments, the, you brought up the exact point that the UN Security Council since Russia sits there as a permanent member can veto any resolution there. But what has been powerful is to see what has been done in other aspects the important thing that was done was raising in at the Human Rights Council session that began on Monday. So tomorrow there will be an urgent debate on Russia. There's also a move to remove Russia from the Human Rights Council, since it violated the essence of what it means to be a member of the Human Rights Council by its acts daily of killing and violating war crimes and acts of aggression by letting the International Criminal Court as well. And there will be the discussion tomorrow, and there will be a call for a commission of inquiry to document all of the war crimes, all of the human rights violations to then use to hold military and political leaders accountable for what has happened. The last one I see also is Ukraine submitted an application to the International Court of Justice in the hey. The other reason this situation under a genocide convention so a lot is happening. And I think that's the most important thing the other last point was the Security Council voted to convene a special session to address the crisis. This is the 10th time that's happened since 1950. So, Ukraine is being very active. But what we see is, of course, is what breaks our hearts of innocent people being killed for doing nothing at all. What we have to understand for the rest of the world is, we can't allow Russia to flex on the rest of us. If the rest of us are fueled literally and figuratively by the nonviolent sources of power, we should connect with making all these points known that the oil and the gas of Russia should be moved away from that we can go towards actually seeking climate justice but also making sure that we work towards world peace together, and that we stand with Ukraine against fascism against violence, and all those who are against this war. You know, I recently have got a book written by book from Amazon written by former Canadian, Canadian general from my own dealer. It's called Shake Hands with the Devil. It's about genocide in Rwanda and it's a terrible book because even the assistant of Colonel Deller committed suicide during assisting him in writing this book, even though she wasn't in Rwanda herself. But this event is so terrible, she just can do with it. And I very loved this phrase, this name, this very name of this book, and I think this is what was happening in these eight years between West and Russia. It's Shake Hands with the Devil. And there are some genocides in 19th, it's Rwanda, it's Stavronitsa, and I think we don't need another genocide here in Ukraine. And there are a lot of critic to the United Nations about the ability of UN to respond to this cause, these problems, and this is really a question. Can the United Nations really solve these problems nowadays? That's an excellent point. I've actually taught that book. So I know exactly what you're talking about, that shaking hand with the devil is we have to connect all the consequences and we have to connect what the results are. And too many people have just been in pursuit of wealth and not thinking about the deals they're doing, but oil companies with Russia, Shell, all of those have huge implications because then that emboldens dictators. So what we really have to do and what I think about is we should all be in agony today, because people are dying because they want to live in a democracy, they want to determine their own affairs. But we should then build on that agony to produce real change and the UN has weaknesses because of it's giving a veto to the permanent five and other aspects, but it also has an opportunity to organize. There's so many elements of the UN, the High Commissioner for Human Rights, Michelle Bachelet is organizing and documenting the violations. The UN High Commissioner for Refugees, over 660,000 have already gone into Poland. One of the most heartening aspects was the signs that say we welcome you, not in a way trying to turn anyone away but saying we welcome you, and everyone coming to volunteer. So a chef Jose Andres from Spain, he actually mobilized his World Central Kitchen, and it has it functioning right now in Poland to help people source the temperatures are freezing. And we can see people all around the world beginning to take action. And even the EU this morning, your president was there speaking to them and seeking membership there so the world is beginning to react but I believe what you're calling for and what we all agree with is, every life is precious, and any depth that happens should be taken action to avoid. It's important that FIFA and UEFA are banning Russia tossing out the World Cup that everyone's taking actions, but we have to make sure that the UN could function to prevent innocent lives dying in the future under that right to protect. When we see all those tanks lining up that will commit crimes against humanity, there must be action to help and help now. Yeah, but you mentioned the ICC international criminal court and Ukraine indeed have sent. I don't know how to say it correct but the problem is that we haven't yet ratified the wrong stage of the international criminal court so the court have not, the court don't have the full right to investigate the crimes here in Ukraine, but they actually started to do it and we should follow it and see what will be in the future. There are many brilliant things about Ukrainians that I learned in recent days. This war shows to me personally that there are many of brilliant people here, all of them really, but I think one of the interesting things for me that in Ukraine here we do not have any censorship because of war. Usually, you know, I'm a big fan of First Amendment and it's a popular topic whether we should introduce some ban to freedom of the speech or the press or not. And now we, I think the state just have no time to introduce some censorship law or things like that and the Putin regime should spend millions or just billions of dollars to silence the voice of the truth and to introduce the truth in their way. And we here in Ukraine don't need a penny to, because the order is just self organized here. And the police shouldn't arrest people for protesting against war or things like that because everyone is united here really. Well, that's a great point in what you're sharing. It has been exciting to see people organize. And I even remember the signs that people organize to make sure an action that had taken place in World War II as well nonviolent protest to change all the signs so that the Russian soldiers coming in would not know where to go. And of course it also shows the humor of the, and the strength and wisdom of go keep yourself here, go keep yourself over there, and then go keep yourself back to Russia. So that perspective of not giving up, and everyone doing something is really important and that's what we see is everyone around the world sort of uniting to do things you have. And this is even Las Vegas, replacing vodka with Ukrainian vodka proceeds going to humanitarian relief. You have many people organizing. And what is important though is, it is a, as you pointed out really a war against universal values that you're citing the First Amendment and freedom of speech and freedom of press is absolutely important because you even see that cracking in Russia. And the university where all the foreign service officers that make the policy of Russia have actually signed letters to protest you see people protesting also inside Moscow and St. Petersburg. So around domestically, where most people were fearful to rise up are rising up, but it's the inspiration by the everyday people in Ukraine that are getting more people to see what they can do. One person asked a question. He said, would one wish that fellow democratic cultures of the EU, not quote just support morally through welcoming fleeing Ukrainians and through weapons, but also joined physically defending democracy. Have you seen a lot of people coming and doing actions there that you would call for people to support to assist to defend democracy. No, I'm not, I'm not seeing them physically because I'm on the very east of the county and they obviously should come from the West, Western borders, but the support that we're seeing here is huge. There's a lot of foreign friends of people that we know are journalists, wrote, asked to our organizations and they, they are proposing help they are asking about bank accounts, and they, they are showing their support for Ukraine. Yeah, I mean, it is important to see the massive international condemnation of the Russian aggression. But between us we know it's not enough. We know that we have to now punish the perpetrators but also deter future threats to international peace and security. And those are coming commissions of mass atrocities that you were sharing as well. We have to take action today. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that first days of war, the West is really, they, they wasn't sure about, they weren't sure about whether Ukraine can fight Russia and it's, it seemed like it's, it's a huge power. Russia, the second arm in the world, but the next days, the five days of the war showed that we can, we can't really handle it, even without any support from the West or small, small support and the West, Western countries realized that it's not a war. And this is a war we, we are not losing. And, and we all can be, we all are really a part of this war and we can, we can, we can make victory more close. So thank you and your ambassador, Marka Rova also said that you know it's your job to defend your country and it's your home and you will defend it. But more importantly to show Russia that it's not okay in the 21st century to attack another country, a sovereign country without any reason. And that telling the rest of the world it's time to take sides and it's time to take the Ukrainian side, because you're defending your home. And really, I know we only have one more minute, the world and all of our viewers must understand what this war means for Ukraine for Europe, or for the world as a whole. And we have to think about the scenarios, but we also have to make sure that the leaders of the free world respond resolutely, because this will ripple around the, not only the region but the rest of the world. Thank you for your courage and bravery. And we look forward to continue communicating and as well as when the war is over to make sure that the human rights that your group supports are realized by all people of Kharkiv, as well as all of Ukraine. Mahalo, thank you so much. Yeah, thank you to Joshar. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn, and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.