 of our final sessions of the day on the Evolving State of Affairs in Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan. I'll briefly introduce the panellists and then invite them to make a few opening remarks and then we'll have a discussion and I'll open it up to the audience. Starting from the far end, Shafkat Mahmoud is a leading figure in Pakistan, Tariq-e-Insaf, which is Imran Khan's party which is doing extremely well, as you know, in the polls in Pakistan. He's many years in public service in Pakistan, been a minister and now has joined this party, played a role, a leading role in setting up the PTI. Then moving along, Abid Butt is the Chief Executive Officer of E2E Supply Chain Management. E2E Supply Chain Management is one of the fastest growing companies in Pakistan. It's a logistics company and Abid is really perfect for this panel because he's the personification, if you like, of the silk route. His company does business in Pakistan, in Afghanistan and in Central Asia in the logistics business and I think he'd like to develop regional trade and do more business with India if I'm right in saying that. So it would be great to have him on to represent the private sector here. Then Dr. Sabha Yusuf-Toma Al-Mali is the Vice Minister of Planning in the Kurdistan Regional Government of Iraq. He served for 12 years in the Planning Ministry in Iraq. Then he moved to the UK and taught at Liverpool University and at Coventry too before being asked to return to a role in the Kurdistan government. He tells me he's a technocrat, not a politician, but anyway we're very glad to have him along. And then Shambatija is the Senior Economic Advisor to President Karzai. He's also got a long distinguished career in the United Nations. He's been the Secretary of Generals Special Representative for Central Asia, West Asia, South Asia and the League of Arab States. He also launched in Istanbul in 2010 the Silk Root Initiative. So again someone who can talk very much about the region and regional trade. So let me start with you Shambatija and ask you to just give us a few words about your vision for Afghanistan, your vision for the region and the partnerships you'd like to see here at the World Economic Forum. Thank you very much Simon. First of all greetings to all of you. It's a pleasure to see the World Economic Forum while this is in India and a little bit focused on India but now this session or hopefully future sessions will also include other countries within the region let's say from South Asia. So it's a really pleasure to be there from that perspective. On Afghanistan I need not to say much more. You have a distinguished journalistic career yourself so you know what has happened in the past 30 years and what this country has gone through. The whole social fabric, economic fabric, institutional fabric, infrastructure fabric of the country was devastated and suffered for all these years. Naturally Afghanistan was and is continued to be a least developed country from that point of view. It's also a landlocked country so it's no different that what we have gone through we never had before but whatever we had was already gone through it. Now what we have gone through all this with the help of the donor community, particularly the United States, we have come quite a bit in economic achievements. The newspapers and the journals and the news coverage is full of it. A country which basically had a $200 income now today is having $600. We had only 72,000 telephone lines today. We have millions and millions of lines. Almost I would say half of the country has a mobile phone. And others in the roads, the amount of roads we have built in our country in the past 10 years which we have never built in the entire history of Afghanistan. We have connected very well to the whole region and so on. The country which basically did not have a place in the global terms today is seeking to find its own place and of course contributing in many way we can. And we'd like to continue on that path. Afghanistan is a landlocked country which in normal terms we are blocked from all angles but we'd like to turn around at least this is what my vision is to change this landlock status to a sort of serving status to a more land bridge status which means I'd like to see Afghanistan to become a trade, transit, transport and investment hub not only for the country itself but for the Central Asia, South Asia as well as West Asia because the country's location itself dictates and has been in the past in the history like we have been crossing roads for basically all the regions and so on. And we'd like to build upon it. We also like to build this is our more or less vision for it a very close relationship within the region itself. We have joined many international and as well as regional structures and intergovernmental associations. We have a LACSARC, we have become member, we have members of the ECO which is Economic Cooperation Organization, Shanghai Cooperation and many such institutions. We'd like to continue to be part of it, contribute through them as well as within the region. These are the very few sort of examples that I wanted to start with and of course we have a more session to continue and we'd be delighted to contribute more on that. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks, Simon. Good evening. His Excellency, Dr. Ali Sindhi, Minister of Planning was supposed to be here but he has got another arrangement with the discussion about the budget and he sends his regards and his wishes. It is my honor to be here with you today to participate in this important discussion. I would like to highlight some hot issue in the Middle East, Iraq, Kurdistan and the role of U.S. and Western country and India. Although the Middle East has for many years been in a turbulent state, it is without doubt currently facing some of the most challenging issue, the outcome of which will have not only regional impact but global repercussion. What is widely termed the Arab Spring suggests a systematic change and sense of purpose and unity, whilst there are there may be commonality in different peoples expressing their dissatisfaction with the state echo, there the similarity ends. The Middle East can be considered a geopolitical region but the individual countries and communities within these countries are each unique and facing unique challenges. Some have great natural resources, whilst many do not. Some have open democratic and accountable government and many do not. Some have enjoyed many years of peace, stability and prosperity, whereas many others have suffered for instability, civil war, political and economic uncertainty and poverty. Against this backdrop, there are many many people who have lived for decades under authoritarian rule and political stagnation suddenly finding they have overnight become responsible for determining the course of their future, such as the scale and pace of change. That much of the world as well as those across the region are unable to fully determine the outcomes and ultimate where these change will take the region, even in Iraq. Where tremendous change came nearly a decade ago with the liberation by US and coalition forces, political deadlock in Baghdad and ongoing concern over a perceived lack of security in much of the country. Many many questions still remain about the future. This is especially alarming to us who live in Kurdistan region as we have spent almost 20 laying the necessary foundation for free democratic and safe society while seeking to maintain and strengthen communication and cooperation with the rest of Iraq. What is clear to us from where we stand in Erbil today without proper leadership of and engagement with the ordinary citizen, what can begin as positive change can quickly transform to our rest and uncertainty. The rule of the West and trying to support positive change has had limited success at best and in many cases had led to resentment, confusion and provided fertile ground for those intent on personal political gain at the expense of the citizen. Outside the Kurdistan region within Iraq for example the US decision to withdraw in 2011 in response to domestic pressure left a vacuum that is being exploited by those within a very different agenda. Likewise the seemingly impotent ability of the UN to effectively address the Syrian issue such that the conflict now has real potential to destabilize the region. This is why we believe it is essential for those such as the US who have the capacity to play a much greater political and diplomatic role in the region must step up to the plate. It's understandable that the Obama administration has remained apprehensive to take up strong position on particular issue due to domestic political and economic concern at home but we believe that the longer American waits the more difficult it will be for it to demonstrate much-needed leadership especially to galvanize and mobilize international and original allies. This leadership is key to overcoming the individual agendas and thereby ensuring the cooperation necessary for resolving the region's greatest issue. Speaking particularly of the situation in Kurdistan we would like to see the US and its allies play a more active role in the social and economic development of our region. Today through strong political channels, dialogue and economic cooperation we maintain good relations with all our neighbors and stand as an area of great stability in the region and are therefore not only a political asset for the West but prove that pragmatic cooperation is possible in the Middle East. However we also have a booming economy open for investment and a young population eager for educational skills both areas too which we believe the US and others can contribute a great deal and where we believe there is a significant room to reinforce our strong political ties and sustain a long lasting maturely beneficial relationship that can act as a beacon in a very uncertain region. On the question of the strategic role of India I believe India as the economic and political hub of South Asia can play a much greater role in the overall development of the region and generally contribute to greater stability. India has developed quickly and has faced many of the same social and political issues that country throughout the Middle East are facing. We in the Middle East can therefore learn a great deal from the Indian experience and from Indian expertise and further cooperation in this regard should be encouraged by both sides. The potential for enhanced trade relationship especially between India and Middle East countries outside the Gulf region is also great. Generally speaking the more positive economy and social relationship the region can establish with India the greater chances these contribution have to reinforce stability and growth throughout the region. Thanks very much Sabha I want to come back to several of the points you raised there through the course of our discussion today I mean particularly the US role the US withdrawal from Iraq and we can talk about that in relation to Afghanistan as well and the US role in Pakistan and what that should be. I'll move on though to invite Abid to speak and fairly obviously Abid you want regional cooperation regional trade I mean maybe you can tell us a little bit about what's standing in the way of that you know from your perspective the dream that you know is shown by the silk route that Cham laid out for Afghanistan is a dream which Pakistan obviously can be central to but why isn't it happening as fast as it should be? Firstly I'd like to I'll come back to that question but I'd like to firstly say it's really not fair to plump Pakistan together with Afghanistan and Iraq I mean no offense because we have we're not going through a fully fledged conflict inside of Pakistan so and we have a running government we have an economy that works and as such the US role is important but it's it's not a do or die as it would be for the other probably as far as my vision for this region for this entire region now the silk route starts from China it goes all the way onto Europe but this Pakistan Afghanistan India are sort of central to the silk route also and Pakistan is the first land law first country with a port after Afghanistan that so it gives access potential access to if we don't even include India it gives potential access to markets or you know for markets in Central Asia and Afghanistan Pakistan can be the origin can be the port that they that they use what's stopping the silk route from from getting revitalized from getting re-invoked is the obviously the critical relation between Pakistan and India and what businesses would like to see because this is not something that the government would one day say okay we let's the silk route is this road here and please follow the science and you will get to Europe it's not gonna how it's gonna work it's going to be businesses saying this is now viable to use and let's and let's talk about using them and I think what's what's stopping is that there is no stability in policy on both sides on Pakistan or or even in the Indian side as far as you know enhancing cooperation and is concerned we as businesses sometimes feel that if policies are reversible and they're as good as not being there in the first place because this this the sword of uncertainty hanging you know on our on our heads is is enough for us to not engage I mean there are the things to do that we will you know disengage in that situation so that's something leaders on both sides will have to look at I think India has a huge role to play it's we I look at it as a much more mature democracy much more mature economy everything we can learn from India as a Pakistani and so India has to play as my colleagues earlier mentioned has to play a sort of a big brother role where they help create an environment such that this could happen of course everybody has their work cut out for them Afghanistan Pakistan Central Asia Iraq all these countries have their work cut out for them but leadership is needed very much so like Germany did in making the European Union Germany was a was a critical leader in that although France and was also there my French friends would not like me to say that but it's a reality that without Germany without their sacrifices it wouldn't have been the really really are sacrifices if you on the on the economic side at least their sacrifices you wouldn't be a reality similar we have to think about such a trading block or such a trade free zone in this region and for that to have India has to be there also as a leader but everybody also has to follow Simon I just want to certainly I don't want to take place but he says something so interesting which is in my effect the heart to us as well as to the entire South Asia the safta for example the safta treaty or safta agreement which has been negotiated within the framework of the Sark region which basically provides a fantastic platform and framework for expanding and developing more trade and in a free trade manner I'm really thankful that you mentioned because this is one thing we both have to be a little bit pursuing at the Sark sessions as well as persuading India and many other countries to join in and so on this will help us a lot in that very rightly points India-Pakistan relations have a habit of sucking up all of the attention at Sark meetings and I don't want to make a whole session about India Pakistan relations but but but we'll bring a shove cut here to talk a little bit about that I mean India and Pakistan relations are central to developing any of these these ideas that we're talking about and perhaps you can talk a little bit about about PTI and whether you can promise stability and assurance of you know in terms of India-Pakistan relations such that the next time we're discussing this at the World Economic Forum we have a packed room full of Indian businessmen who are dying to do business in this region you know is that is that something which is realizable so you don't want me to talk about our vision for Pakistan I do want you to talk about that as well but I want you to because we are a political party which is going into an election soon so we have a vision for Pakistan please but I'll try and first answer your question and part of our vision is that we need to have we aim to build an entirely new relationship with India and as a matter of fact United States so we can talk about that later on and a part of this building up entirely new relationship is that we must create trust between our two nations because unless and until we create trust then you know whatever detailed and steps that you take and other matters will not go very far and I think we want to address some of the main issues and I think those issues can be resolved and they can be which we can be resolved see a chin can be resolved sir Creek can be resolved even water which is a more tricky subject can somehow be resolved but there has to be a will and there has to be strong political leadership because if you don't have strong political leadership then other interest groups within the country as well as within the state start to intervene so that creates a problem and that creates the problem not just in Pakistan but in India also because sometimes I hear Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and I feel that he has this very strong desire to move very fast on having a you know very normal peaceful relationship but sometimes one gets the feeling that there are elements within the state who and you know you get the Indian Army chief another saying things which are cautionary I'll be you I'll use a careful word and similarly in in Pakistan so I think that we would need a strong leadership on both sides to overcome many of the hurdles and if we win the election I promise you one thing there is going to be strong leadership and there is we have no ambiguity in our mind that that our government would according to the Constitution take all the decisions and if there is any reason for us not being able to work according to the Constitution we'll go back to the people so therefore but I we there has to be partnership there has to be partnership for moving forward on the Indian side also I think we've missed opportunities in the past both of us but I believe that there have been occasions when both sides have been very close to some kind of a settlement on Kashmir in our party as Mr. Imran Khan is fond of saying is we have three former foreign ministers and all all of them tell us in different periods that they came very close to resolving or having some kind of a settlement on Kashmir and then at the last minute something happened I believe the last time was 2007 early 2007 when there was later on some political crisis and it didn't get back so we have basis of moving forward on some of the key contentious issues and because once we are able to make progress on them everything else will follow on trade for example we are very keen on trade we are we feel that it is in our national interest to have very strong trading relationship with with India and SAFTA is a platform which is a good platform there are lots of things that have to be worked out on it but even on the in the economic area there are sticking issues there are tariff barriers non-tariff barriers all sorts of things that need to be resolved so but again I say that if you have the will and the strong leadership to move forward you can do that it can happen also people to people links we are very very keen on I mean if again if we come into power you will see I mean a hugely liberalized visa regime in the sense that you will see possibilities of we are and we are even willing to take unilateral steps to increase the you know arrival of people from India into Pakistan and there is a tremendous potential for all kinds of tourism religious tourism and so on but people to people contacts are essential and I was that's why I'm looking forward to this visit of the Pakistani cricket team to India in December and although there are some voices in India were objecting but I think that we need to move forward and create an environment where we can interact on levels which are other than defend security and other things so I think this is so I'm I'm very positive I'm very positive about the future of India Pakistan and the greatest reason for this positivity is that among the people of Pakistan you see this very very strong desire to move forward towards a very peaceful normalized relationship and the realization very strong realization that Sark region as a whole has in a sense unlike in other parts of the world not move forward because of all these security related issues and so on so forth whereas other regional blocks are doing much better than Sark so if you are able to overcome some of our security related and historical narratives and so on so forth we'll be able to not only bilaterally move forward but as a region be able to because at the end of the day it's the prosperity of your people because that's what matters at the end of the day everything else is secondary to that and prosperity of the people essentially comes through economic development cooperation so we have to all move forward on that so I think at the moment on this issue I'll just I mean let's let's since we have had US election today and I'll shift gears for a second on we can come back to the regional Silk route issues I'm sure people will want to talk about that but but you know we have another four years of Obama we just had four years I mean Chavka let me start with you what's four years of Obama been like for Pakistan and what are you looking for in the next four how do you how do you feel about the result today I think that we've had very difficult four years with the president Obama although the expectations were higher when he was elected and incidentally President Obama perhaps one of the few people who has a young man visited Pakistan stayed here so he knows the country and but this has been a testy period because of you know not no little convergence on understanding of security issues there has been a strong reaction in Pakistan to drone attacks which kill a lot of people besides militants killed a lot of have a lot of collateral damage there has been a salala attack on our military which killed 22 people which were became a very serious issue between the US and Pakistan with the result that the NATO supply line was stopped for almost six months I think and eight months eight months supply chain you know so besides that even on economic I mean Pakistan has been pushing for a long time for not aid as such but free access to American markets for its products that didn't happen so it has been a testy period but what we are hoping that it will change it will change because a strong realization historically true that when presidents get elected for second term political considerations and you know playing to the various opinion groups becomes less of a consideration so we feel that and also the public opinion in the United States is now very much for American exit from this region so we hope that issues of drone strikes and I can tell you a whole reason why we feel that these are counterproductive I mean now studies are coming from the United States from Stanford and New York law schools which have documented how drone strikes have actually increased militancy than rather than reducing it so we hope that in the next four years and if we get elected that is we will be able to convince the United States that by being here and doing all this they are giving a jihadi narrative to those militants who are then able to convince the people that this is a war against infidels and as long as you have this jihadi narrative it becomes very difficult to negotiate peace with people because they see this in very different terms it leads to suicide bombing because and we have suffered by the way I it's not generally known that we have lost close to 40,000 people over the last seven eight years in terrorist attacks and so and one of and through mostly through suicide bombings and suicide bombings narrative is built in because these militants and hardcore elements can tell these people that look you're fighting against infidels and Pakistan government is partner of infidels and so on so that's a long subject I don't want to but what I'm saying is that we hope to convince the United States that it's in our common national interest that we need to rethink this entire strategy of fighting militancy and we need to isolate and we know way as many people win hearts and minds in a true sense so that we are able to minimize the number of hardcore militants and then we can take them on so I think on that side on trade and aid our party's line is we don't want USA we are we are we are going to we are determined that we must stand on our feet and we have very clearly feel that USA is counterproductive and instead of helping us creates a problem so therefore we are not interested in USA we need to increase our own revenue base so that we don't need to seek USA but it'll be not we are not anti-unite states we want to build a new relationship a different kind of relationship and hopefully in Obama's second term that will happen I'll bring I'll bring shaman here I mean Shavkat's talked about a different kind of US engagement not not a drone strike one not a not an aid one but a trade one I mean where it where a Sabbath talks about his concern about the US disengagement from Iraq so in Afghanistan are we are you concerned that the pull out of troops is either too rapid or will lead to a disengagement in other ways a disengagement of political diplomatic economic disengagement from Afghanistan which will be destabilizing as well so I mean how do you do that in the prism of another four years of a president Obama right Simon I will take you a little back in academic terms once Super Professor Hans Morgenthau was asked how will you define superpower so he answered back he says well superpower is an entity institution a country whatever you can call it which has a global interest within that context the United States was there in our region particularly in Afghanistan what happened in the past 30 years and we are thankful to them we are thankful to the international community who has come to Afghanistan to help us build as I earlier said our entire infrastructure political institutions and and and so on and on within that context you also know that last year we President Obama did come to Kabul at the last minute we did sign in agreement strategic partnership within strategic partnership almost not necessarily military political and so on also economic issues are included in that in that partnership and with our engagement with the United States when the time comes ready for something they know it we know it and it's time for move on to the next phase of it within the context of Afghanistan Afghans have defended their country since the birth I need not to say that this free book says it and we will continue to do so the British know that very well well exactly you know so this will we will continue to do so so this was a very direct dialogue between us and them they say they want to withdraw they want to leave so it be it's a perfect so they have helped us quite a bit to prepare ourselves for our police for our military force our basically we are ready to move on so within that context if United States leaves and they have made the decision to leave by 2014 and President Obama already at various meetings that I have participated in the slow phase we draw that will continue to do so and prepare us to to take over back our own institutions and then we are ready for it President Karzai has very openly and then very frankly said that we are ready now to take over the responsibilities of course we will still need your participation the donor participation and the United States we don't have to worry about security melt down in Afghanistan off the U.S. troops I hope not I hope not we will do to the best of our ability and all the past 10 years of involvement training and an assistant that we have received we should be in position to do so how important is the cooperation the role of Pakistan in ensuring that the next decade in Afghanistan is a is a is a peaceful one very much so we are very closely talking to Pakistan and there's a directly heads to heads that visits and various meetings that we have all attended they have shown all the good will to us so far but I hope they'll continue to do so you know you've experienced the U.S. troop withdrawal it's it's it's it's amazing you know when the U.S. troops leave it's easy for a country to fall off a nation's front page and out of the nation's attention I mean from your perspective is there is a right being danger in danger of being forgotten and ignored by the West first I would like to take this opportunity on behalf of my government and our people to thank U.S. and American people and Western allies for helping us to remove Saddam Hussein and his regime because that regime who destroyed over 4,500 villages killed over 200,000 people displaced over 100 people through unfair campaign and so on and we are grateful to U.S. for this and we were hoped that U.S. will continue in Iraq staying in Iraq until we saw some of the main hot issue one of the main issue the relationship between the region and central government and one of the important issue for us is one of the article in constitution with American help with the political leader to write for Iraq about article 140 about the disputed area there are many many towns main cities like Karkuk and clean and others they were originally Kurdish towns and villages and the previous regime did their best to urbanize this area remove all the Kurdish people Kurdish from their home from this city and move Arabs from Baghdad and other places to these to urbanize this area and these are belong to the Kurdistan and we hope that American will be able to put some political pressure and play greater role political and diplomatic role so some of these main issue have it we'll open it up to questions in just a second but I just want to bring you bring you in I mean I want to bring you back in a way to the to the business side of it and the trust issue because you know the dreams of the silk route depends so much on trust but if India is doing trade with Afghanistan there's mistrust in Pakistan you know if if Pakistan is has its own issues of trust with Afghanistan as well so there's a lot of there's a lot of mistrust I mean how do you overcome that mistrust and you know is the Indian business community which is represented here has it got a role to play in sort of building closer links in lobbying and in trying to sort of build greater trust between the region as a whole I guess yeah I think trust will will it takes time as as as between friends between countries also it takes time and it's and it's a process that we must start at some stage I think that that process hasn't really kicked off as much as it should have considering we've been neighbors for 60 years we should have been very good friends and should have trusted each other with our lives but I don't think that's happening right now so one one approaches for the businesses to take the initiative you write we do business here they do business there it's it becomes you know you have to in that situation trust each other the other things are you know people to people contacts as Mr. Chavkat was mentioning mentioning I mean that's something that always increases trust and in general usually you don't shoot your customer or you know people you work with so in general I would have but so I mean if the business activity between the two country increases we talked about non-tariff barriers we talked about this uh agreement that these guys have signed uh Afghanistan Pakistan in India but it was signed a year ago and it's not been implemented yet on the ground I'd like to find out why not why why hasn't it been implemented I should be delighted I should be delighted to do that as a matter of fact there has been so many visits between Kabul and Islamabad on this subject there's always last minute things are just you know blocking here blocking there I think this will be one of the best thing which will happen and thanks to Secretary Clinton that she intervened in that and assisted us to put this together and sign it but the blockages I suppose we are ready in a matter of fact I need not to say that the educational material the books which is for the education were blocked at the Karachi airport for months and months and months and we even and we even have a sort of pleaded in many ways to the foreign ministry in Pakistan as well as as to the President Zardari to say these are books for the children right so I'm saying we our problems are in that but let me just a little bit take it a little further this issue which earlier it was mentioned I like to see in the in the entire South Asia which couple of things are missing one of them is as he has rightly pointed out former minister the connectivity and the trust as well as integration within our own people and our own countries even though we are a group of people from the same region same language perhaps same religions in many ways and then culture and everything else but yet we are a little bit far away from each other we have not connected I do recall that in the Sark Summit in the Malay age which was this last year which has happened one of the key theme was how we should be integrating further and I think this is called for us to a little bit work on the connectivity as well as as as integration of it and I'm sure this will bring a lot of beyond Bollywood and cricket I would say yes well luckily let me just interrupt that no no no for the cricket Afghanistan is very new to it very impressive but we are thanks to our neighbours from Pakistan helped us quite a bit in that and we are going very well in that good good on that note let's bring it out to the audience and have some questions at the front thank you my name is Jasmine Whitbread I'm the Chief Executive of Save the Children International and I'd really like to hear a little bit more from the panel about the evolving state of affairs for actually the majority of your populations in all your countries that's women and children and actually when you just touched on books for children there have been some quite significant strides made in the last decade I'm thinking about particularly in Afghanistan a halving of child mortality rates you've got a whole generation of children graduating from school now girls and boys for the first time in many many years and there are advances being made in all of your countries and I suppose my question to you would be how important are those advances to you as business leaders because it's not just a humanitarian issue in my mind you know it's the right thing to do it's also this issue of investing in human capital which we all know you know evidence from other countries is necessary in order to to to build medium and long-term economic growth so I'm just wondering what safeguards what steps you think could be put in place in your countries to to overcome challenges whether it's to do with corruption or to do with financing or to do with security to ensure that the progress that's been made on health and education in particular those investments in human capital won't be won't be lost I mean everyone thinks about this issue in relation to Afghanistan thank you very much no no it's a very right particular children and women for example in Afghanistan the constitution of Afghanistan guarantees 30% of the entire parliament has to be women now whether we have that qualified woman for example yet but anyway we the president said pick them and bring them and put them on the chair so that let them grow on the job and then learn about it and the next generation would be certainly very fully ready for it so that's something is concrete is happening the the the woman which has taken a very prominent role in Afghanistan is very well covered in the in the old journals international press and all kind of things and we have made quite a bit significant in my fact today was supposed to be one of our deputy speaker was here but maybe next time she will come on the children side you would be surprised just last year I was driving somehow very early in the morning around six o'clock and what do I see young boys and girls holding hands and just walking on the path going to school it is six o'clock in the morning because we have a school buildings maybe not to the level which are so much of it so the schools have started shifts six o'clock in the morning to ten o'clock is is the youngest children but the mothers bring them and so on and then ten to and further until nine o'clock in the night where the little bit more older people come in so it is moving on quite a bit on that part in the other children side of course we have a quite a bit assistance from the community to make it push and so on you so rightly said on the on the health sector for example our clinics mobile clinics for example in the northern most region of the plains of the mountains which is not easy but is going on we are just continuing on that path so on the MDG goals of the United Nations I think Afghanistan has done very good on the health sector which is recognized now all all over so we are on our way and hopefully we'll continue to be on that path we want to have someone want to take the Pakistan against things like corruption financing and and security two aspects very quickly I'll answer that you want to say something later on first of all in our plan which we announced about two weeks two months six weeks ago we have promised to double the expenditure that the government will make on health and in that we have particularly identified the children because the statistics for stunted growth of of children who have not been were malnourished and so on are so high that that has we have made that into a very very specific target of our policy and we've stated that so doubling the expenditure on health and and this and a whole lot of governance things because it's it's not just that you put more money into it but you you you manage health better you have a better way of and you get communities involved you're very much going in the direction of getting communities involved so it's there's a whole thing I just don't want to take too much time explaining that but rest assured that that is one of the key planks but on the security side there are some areas where we have a security problem that's not everywhere in the country but there are some areas in what we call FATA which is the federally administered tribal areas we have a security problem and what we spoke about earlier that we have a plan for peace and unlike you know many other and it's not a one-point agenda to go and kill them all I mean there is a we have a very comprehensive plan of how we will go about it and therefore that will also hopefully over a period of time improve security we have some security issues in in in Quetta one of the cities in Balochistan but we have some sorts of security issues in Karachi but that don't that don't don't impact the common people so by and large the security is for us an issue I would not say it's not an issue but it's not a massive issue it's not an issue which overleaps everything else so but anyway let me show you that if we ever make it to the government and I hope we will in about six months time health is going to be one of the main objectives of our policy I think we have in Pakistan we're infamous for violence against women and as a citizen I think we're not doing enough to stop that they're not enough safeguards in place and also bringing women into the workforce not enough is being done bring educating young girls not enough is being done so so there's no safeguard in Pakistan right so but one thing what but one thing I'd like to one thing I'd like to I'm a political citizen so one thing I would like to say though is that our media has become very free over the past 20 years right so that oh 10 years so that gives us a natural kind of a safeguard so when something really bad happens and it gets reported you know attention is put on it so but that's that's not the right in my that it's not a procedural thing you know it's it happens once in a while so that's that's what I would like to most welcome to yes I think I could talk about Kurdistan not the whole Iraq Kurdistan being called another Iraq the main priority for investment for KRG Kurdistan government was investment investment in the security we never had any violence never had even a single incident and we enjoy peace and secure peace and only people they come to the Kurdistan they realize they make their judgment that Kurdistan is different from rest of the country women as far as women concerned I think we have got equal opportunity and our assembly we have got over 25 percent of MP they are women in education priority for investment was security then power and now the education and health we are investing a lot in education and health one of the main program for example uh during the last two years we're doing the government allocated 100 million dollar to send a student to study outside the region outside Iraq in US and western country and this year we have nominated through a process of transparencies 2000 public sector employees as well as a new graduate to study abroad in different subject according to the need of the region and we are and we are very very proud and very very successful program because it is equal opportunity even I can say maybe women they are more than men as well they're competing according to the scoring system which we put in place and transparencies known to everybody every member of public sector through websites through internal communication and they could apply and go through system and select it and then go through the procedure and going abroad to study for all subjects health the second priority government going through a good program for the form because we inherited a very out of date system because the region was neglected by previous regime and we are trying to rebuild and also we learn a lot from experience of other countries we have got some good organization like rent UNESCO and other helping us to put in place a system for health which benefits the whole population and the region thanks very much I mean just very quickly the shooting of Malala Yusuf Shah is that going to change anything in Pakistan do you think I mean it was a bit of a wake-up call but is it going to have any lasting impact I mean I think the what we sometimes believe that there's a silent majority in Pakistan of enlightened more enlightened people than you would see on TV but I think that majority sort of spoke up or if their majority it's unknown but those people spoke up so hopefully it might it might have a positive impact right absolutely let's get another question here from the front question actually is to Mr. Mahmoud post World War two Jean Mounais working with the French government's planning department looks at the new social contract to really access the coal mines for the French do you possibly see any such common ground which does not include Kashmir on which India and Pakistan could develop a social contract that would at least allow for both the countries to increasingly get interdependent in certain way at least because that's what happened to France and Germany in a sense laid the foundation of what we today know as European Union so I don't know whether I would use the word social contract between two countries but if you mean that a contract on lots of social issues yes that would be true a kind of data and a kind of contract in which we agree to be you know good trading partners good neighbors good social exchanges cultural exchanges sporting yes of course that there is a possibility in that kind of a situation to review the Indus water treaty which is a common ground between the two countries in terms of looking at power water and many other aspects that surround that treaty and do you think re-looking at the treaty would sort of be a stepping stone to look at a different kind of collaboration it could end up being a backward step because the point is that when you when you have a treaty which has lasted for since 1960 so we're talking of 52 years that that treaty is held and it has governed essentially a treaty which is accepted by both sides and which is occasionally led to international arbitration also so I think that what has worked we should leave that well alone because if we if we touch it we open a Pandora's box I mean there are lots of people by the way in Pakistan also who think that Indus water treaty should be reviewed because there have been some river waters have been given away which shouldn't have been given and I'm sure there are lots of people in India who feel that way so my my only point is that we are neighbors we can't wish that way we are we have to live together we have to find ways to cooperate we have to find ways to share the resources which are common to us I mean talk about air for example I mean if there is pollution in India I'd have or in pollution in Pakistan in a few days it travels to each other if there is there are there's sewage water which goes across the border or comes across the border so there and there is water and there are lots of other issues so what I'm saying is that we have absolute we are convinced and by that I mean I'm reflecting my party's point of view and as a citizen of Pakistan I hope that we are convinced that it is vitally it is in our vital national interest and I think in your national interest also I'm assuming you're from India that we must work together we must resolve our problems we must move forward with these we must make these very hard borders into relatively softer borders in the sense of greater freedom of people to move to each other's countries and I think that is where I will stop because I can see the moderator getting a bit restless well read yes we are running out of time I'm going to just have to take one more question and then and then I'm going to ask each of you just to deliver if you can in a and I'm just going to spring this on you a little bit but if you can in a sentence just give us a sentence that you'd like to you know sum up what you want this forum to take away from your country your you know your your your presence here just just to sum up what you're the message that you're doing which you know as I said just spring that as a surprise on you so so you've got a couple of minutes but there was a yeah there's a there's two questions there why don't we just take them both in quick succession and and and and then just get a quick answer and then do the sum up yeah I'm Prakash Hinduja from the Hinduja group of companies we do business with Afghanistan and in Pakistan we are hoping to go on exporting of our Ashok Leyland vehicles which we are in process of doing it but we are also focusing on the economical development between the two countries because I know them you know the resources which Afghanistan has are tremendous their minds their different minerals what they have we haven't to discuss that the World Bank and the various other countries could create a focus on creating economical development between India Afghanistan and Pakistan if these three countries come across an understanding with the three you know areas it can bring a lot of success and win win situation which can offer to all the three countries so we have to work out a plan with the programs with all the three countries how they can come to understanding to bring the success of problems they can sit together solve the problem and create the agenda so that it can review all the time to bring the economical development thank you so thank you very much just the gentleman behind you has also been putting his hand up sometimes so just give him a chance my name is Anil Esh I work for a magazine called business today which is published by India today group here I wanted to ask the panel you know there are two developments which we are seeing one is America is becoming you know self-sufficient for their oil needs and their gas needs and China is now sourcing you know a bulk of oil and gas from Middle East do you see any paradigm shift in you know geopolitical situation especially it's relating to the Middle East and you know the Islamic world so do you see any change happening in the near future that's my question I think we really are running out of time so why don't we just combine that with a final with a final remark and and just you know Mr. Hindu just point about the potential of regional cooperation and just just and the point about the other point from the gentleman of business week and then just make your final comments and we'll we'll leave it there so we'll start with with champ thank you I think it's a very good question and this is what basically Afghanistan wants to continue on that path it is true that we are privileged or we are given you know our land and so on that we do have mineral resources and so on and of course the country's mountaineers it takes lots of time and energy and and efforts and investments to go for it we cannot do alone by ourselves so we have to rely on on the foreign investments and so on it matter of fact Mr. Hindu I may know that already that just few months back in the month of July or August India hosted a specific investment summit for Afghanistan where we invited basically for the whole old members of the whole region so we believe that for all the logistic reasons we are more closer to India Pakistan Iran Central Asia than for example somewhere else so the the resources could be literally developed and invested by the region is good for them good for us and so on so actually within that context I do wish to recognize India's economic assistance to Afghanistan which is in a much larger scale and within that context I'd like to see our regional cooperation to develop more I think we got to work within our global or regional for us or within our own bilateral relations we have to develop our regional cooperation not necessarily in in just connectivity and so on which I earlier said in the investments in the in the trade in the transport in the transit areas as well as manufacturing this morning for example one of the session which says you cannot develop if you don't have some manufacturing now we don't have so India has as a quite a bit experience and its capacity so they can share with us within with us as well but it's true that India is helping quite a bit Afghanistan and we thank you for that right now thank you very much the only question I would like to answer is about the oil and gas again in the region the region is very wealthy in the oil and gas and we don't prefer or profess any country when we have got tendering and put all the rules and regulations and ask for all the international company to be free for this contract and we select the right company to do the right job thank you very much I would like to sum up with if I was asked you asked that what should people take away from the forum I would like that to take away or share my vision for the region I would like an prosperous peaceful enlightened tolerant region and everybody has their work cut out to make that happen and you know let's get get on with it let's get on with it great thanks very much I endorse what Abid said but I'll just add that we get a lot of bad press but Pakistan is a very vibrant country with a rapidly emerging expanding middle class it's got a wonderful infrastructure great water resources really I mean when you look at undocumented economy which is which is perhaps equal the size of the economy that exists is documented I mean there is a huge potential in that country so what I would like friends to take from this region is number one that there are great opportunities in Pakistan and number two that Pakistan wants to and I speak for the political leadership of the country that Pakistan wants to play its leading role in trying to create a region which is a region of peace trade people to people contact actually something like a European economic community something that emerges as you know really truly effective trading partner with each other so I think that's where Pakistan will not be lagging behind that's that's great to hear a clarion call for regional cooperation tolerant connected region so that's that's how the politicians can make that happen just I would like to thanks the world economic form for inviting us was a golden opportunity the form which I very much liked and trust because this partnership between the politician and the public sector and private sector is important to work together and this sharing experience and knowledge is very very useful for all of us and thank you very much for this invitation and this opportunity you spoke on behalf of us indeed indeed you did thank you all very much for the all the panel for such an interesting discussion thanks everybody for coming along and I won't keep you any further from from drinks tonight thank you very much