 Okay, we're back. We're live. We're global connections today with Carlos Juarez. We always enjoyed talking to Carlos. He's a university of America in Puebla, Mexico, not too far from Mexico City, and he runs the International Relations Department there, and we get to ask him so many questions about how the world works in general. It's a flat world, isn't it, Carlos? Absolutely, Jay. Saludos. I'm actually in Mexico City right now, sort of camping out here, keeping low-key and staying at home, if you will. But it's an interesting time, of course. We continue to see this unravel, lots of information, lots of misinformation, but also important, as I'm a college professor here, and like all universities too, we've had to suddenly close the classroom and bring it into the virtual online field. I've been an online instructor for many, many years, but now my regular class has had to quickly, like so many others, switch to online. So we'll talk a little bit about that as well. How do we make these adjustments and as well for other people having to work from home now, easy to do in some areas, not so easy in others, but even beyond that, just understanding all the ins and outs of this crisis as it unfolds, particularly things about borders, because diseases don't have passports, they don't stop, and we have a world, however, where we see increasingly many world leaders are basically trying to control and limit, well, essentially lock down some of those borders, and so how do they do that? What are the challenges and issues involved with that? Well, we'll address some of those things here today, but it's good to see you. Good to see you. Thank you for coming on, as always. So let's talk about the school, let's talk about every college, in fact, every educational institution in the world is faced with this because there's something over 170 countries are involved in the corona crisis, and so they've got to adapt things and you're adapting like everyone else. But how are you adapting specifically? What changes have you made? What software, what equipment, and how have you communicated all this to your students? Yeah, well, it came rather suddenly, although we began to see it maybe about two, three weeks ago now, some of the elite schools, I think Harvard was one of the first in Georgetown and a handful of others quickly announcing that with the spring breaks that occurred in most American universities a few weeks ago, that they would not be returning and that, you know, quickly the faculty would have to move to put their courses online. Now, online education, it will vary. Some places do a lot of it, some places do very little of it. But in general, in the universities, we do have a, you know, a broad experience. We have a, you know, a learning management system, one of the common ones that I use, for example, Blackboard, where you basically have tools that allow you to put lectures, you know, materials, even, you know, global connection shows that we take here, I often share those with my classes. And but other than that, it's also a forum that allows us to, you know, to keep a conversation, a dialogue going. So we have interaction going, the students are able to continually dialogue and, and, and, you know, carry out a discussion. And, you know, and I step in there too. So, you know, my courses, they still have six, seven weeks left to go. And I've quickly had to switch them online. They were not originally online. But because I have that experience, relatively easy for me, more challenging for professors who do not normally teach online, suddenly the learning curve and the quick technical challenges. But, you know, we do have a, and I think just like you talk about the health profession, dealing with the, you know, the infectious disease of what this involves at the universities, we've got suddenly the technical support staff that are frantically trying to help faculty make this switch. And even for students who, you know, again, they didn't sign up or plan to take an online course suddenly now they have to because there's no alternative. So there's a bit of anxiety, learning curve that goes along with that. But more importantly, I think it's an opportunity. And I certainly am using it for my current classes to continue a discussion more in depth about these, you know, the issue of Coronavirus and, you know, how it plays out. Now it lends itself because I'm a professor international relations. I have a course, for example, on U.S. foreign policy where we will look at maybe the U.S. role or how it's addressing the crisis. Another course I teach is global political economy right now. And of course, you know, this is having a profound impact on the on the world economy. So we use it as an opportunity to, you know, continue in the discussion. I mean, if you're a chemistry or I don't know a physics teacher, maybe it's a little different, more challenging. But of course, a wealth of information out there that we have to sift through and give our students a chance to I think I think it gives them a chance to reflect and to, you know, use this time that maybe they're at home now where they would otherwise be, you know, dusting the room or, you know, cleaning the toilets. Rather, they can now engage and use it as an opportunity to take a break from, you know, what the, you know, home stay or, you know, staying at home entails and using it as a learning opportunity as well. So how does it work? I'm afraid I've never, you know, been involved in a course online like this. I understand that Zoom gives you the ability to break your students up into groups, little groups that can only talk to the groups. And I wonder if I start out with the conventional model, professor talking to class, class asking professor questions, professor answering questions, showing stuff on the blackboard, whatnot. How much different is this from that? Well, you know, in a fundamental level, not much. We're simply taking those same, you know, techniques into suddenly this new online virtual reality. But here, I would say this, you know, even I've been teaching now for about 30 years, I'm getting a little up there in my middle age. But today, the way we teach is obviously changed from we might have been doing 20, 30, 40 years ago, more and more emphasis on group projects, group dynamics. You know, we know that that's what students, students to prepare them for the real world. I mean, you work in teams, you work on, you know, bringing together, harnessing different skills and talents. So typically, like I have a foreign policy class, for example, the team that my class might have, I don't know, 35, 40 students. So we break them up into small groups of three or four students where they'll be focusing on a particular issue. In my case, they might study a US president, you know, Kennedy or Nixon or Reagan or somebody or Clinton, and look at their foreign policy as a small group. And then they present their materials, and they have to deliver a presentation. The challenge is that, of course, well, let me just say a few more things about the online format, it takes various forms, but I can take lectures that they could hear like a video, I could share with them, maybe a PowerPoint presentation, I could connect them to, you know, YouTube videos, again, the global connection shows and others like that, as well, today of all the major media and news outlets have, you know, podcasts, or they have, you know, good, maybe just a good article that we can read. And it's very easy to connect all these. Again, I would say, because I've been doing it for some years, it's pretty straightforward. But if you're somebody who hasn't been doing that, just learning the technical issues of how you're posted to do this, that can be daunting. It's not ideal to suddenly, you know, on week 12, be told, now it's online, you know, overnight. So that's a challenge. But again, there are various tools, you know, the discussion is another one where you've got, maybe the whole class will be looking at the same materials, and they have to post a little, you know, comment, and then they will see what others have read, and they have to respond to it, extend it. Now, for some, it can be what we would call synchronous, where they actually go live at a certain time during class. That I haven't been doing that much myself, because especially as I do some online teaching, sometimes students may be all over the world, particularly the a lot of the teaching I've been doing with with HPU there. So it's much easier for me to set up a scheme where the students come in on their time, asynchronous. So you've got a set of instructions, things they will look at and have to comment on, but they do it at their own time within a certain deadline. Other than that, I mean, typical students would have to be writing, you know, maybe research reports or submitting, you know, some essays, and all of those things get uploaded. And the other thing it changes, though, especially in this format is that you kind of do it at your leisure at your, well, not leisure, but at your, at a time that works for you, it could be late at night, it could be early in the morning, that gives a little more flexibility. But it is a new dynamic for many, both and the students too. And again, some institutions will have a higher percentage of that, places that have maybe a lot of non traditional learners, adult learners, often have online courses that reach out to people who can't do the traditional classroom setting. But other places where you have the, you know, the classic traditional classroom, suddenly going online is maybe a little bit out of that comfort zone. It's something you're not used to. So there are many challenges. But again, I want to say today in 2020, I mean, all the major universities have these learning management systems, a platform, and zoom that you described is a good example where, you know, we integrate that as well, you can set up separate groups, the students can connect that way. And so it said, really, it's designed to give us that, I think that that flexibility that you could be anywhere, anytime, and you overcome the challenge of commuting or going somewhere to meet. Now, as well as a professor of, you know, issues like diplomacy and negotiation, the fact is, you know, you often, you really do need to have some, you know, I guess I want to say certain things about how you learn about diplomacy, you have to have group dynamics or let me see how I can phrase it, maybe you need, you know, people to people contact, you need to talk to people because in the end, there's only so much you can do at a distance and there's certain things that have to be alive and synchronous. Yes, exactly. And, you know, I mean, again, having live and maybe live just, you know, groups and these other formats we've described, that can help. But in the end, it's not a complete substitute for actual people to people dialogue, just like negotiations, you can do a lot of it by phone or email or even even a Skype interview. But in the end, you know, you really need to meet people. And right now that's on hold as we're all basically trying to stay away and minimize our contact. But, you know, we have to work with what we have. You know, it's interesting that the number of schools, not in the first tier, but like Phoenix, for example, University of Phoenix has been, you know, using and developing online teaching material for decades and decades. They already have it in the bag. They have it already working. It's interesting that they have an advantage. Anyway, I wanted to ask you about tests. You know, in the conventional sense, you got a blue book. Do they still use that term? I think a blue book is one of those trivia questions that students would go, a what? A blue book? A what? And you're referring to these, you know, these little booklets where you would hand write and maybe you do an exam in them. They're not quite as widespread. And even, you know, again, different norms, as you well know, I teach in different parts of the world. I mean, mostly I've been based in the US for most of my career. But now in Mexico, many years, I also teach regularly in Europe. And there are different norms in terms of what, you know, what kind of materials here in Mexico, for example, it's less common for students to buy all the books that we use. In the US, it's pretty straightforward. Here's my class. These are the three or four or five books you must buy. You can get them on Amazon or you can go to the bookstore here. And I would say, and especially a lot of developing countries, there's a greater tendency to just, you know, scan the books or to get copies of, you know, PDF files of it, a less stringent intellectual property control. And that's a problem for, you know, in the first world, we have stricter, I guess, norms about, you know, using materials for educational purposes and not just, you know, giving away free materials. But I want to say there's no shortage of information. You can get, you know, particularly the access to, you know, academic journals, you know, good media reports and, you know, think tanks, the kind of, again, I do international politics. So we have a lot of foreign policy think tanks, even as you all know there in Hawaii, places like Pacific Forum that put out, you know, good, timely information. Those are easy links. You can say, here, here's a, you know, here's a quick piece on, you know, US, North Korea, whatever it might be. So there's, you know, but here again, this is the new style of teaching. You know, when I began teaching years ago, you had a book and the students took notes and they took a test. Now it's like, here's all the information that's out there. And I, you know, what I generally would do, they have to get familiar with, you know, websites for organizations, think tanks, government agencies, and, and there's just an information overload, but you have to, hopefully the skills that we're helping them teach, critical big skills are. That's good. That's a real world. That's the real world. What about the testing itself, you know, do you, do you have the ability with this, with this online training system to give them a pop quiz and get their answers and have their answers graded? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So you can do it anytime. The tools, the tools are in there and they can do testing and, you know, and there's lots of, in fact, there's just a whole range of possibilities there that they can do online, you know, exams. I tend to, I'm not one that leads towards a lot of rote memorization. I've always just shied away from that. I prefer essay writing, research, you know, reports and, you know, I teach courses that are a little more, maybe advanced level, and, and the students instead need to do more of the critical thinking, writing and researching. So less of these little quizzes. Sometimes that just becomes like busy work just to make sure they did the reading. What I will do with mine, for example, we have a weekly discussion forum where they have to look at a common set of readings or maybe some video or a podcast and then answer questions in a more informal style. And this is what I call more of a, you know, classroom dialogue question and answer. So they will post their little, you know, brief paragraph and then they will see what another student posted and reply to that and it creates this threaded discussion. That's a common feature. But there again, the online format, it's been around now for some time, really the last 20 years, the last 10 in particular, it's been fine tuned quite a bit. Are you in this in the difficult times, these threatening, dangerous times? Are you giving them a break on grades? Are you being forgiving? Are you somehow giving them a more easy course than they had before? Well, I mean, this current week, for example, is our first week where we've gone online. And, and for example, no grades right now. Let's just work out the kings, get comfortable with it. So no grades. The other, as you all know here in Mexico, the home of the famous Corona beer, I've got my little coronita here. And this is the little The virus never came, the virus never came from Mexico. I want to be clear about that. However, the Corona beer company has had to handle their own crisis management because there are, of course, as you can imagine, conspiracy theories, misinformation, that it all starts with Corona beer. And my understanding is that their sales have plummeted in some places. You know, it's quite sad. But here I am keeping, you know, the national economy going. So let me make sure and keep things going. Yeah, we're getting this on tape. So let's move to international relations for a moment, Carlos. You know, borders. It's like, I used to say in the early days of think tech, the borders are dissolving. You know, if you could go from Germany to France, just drive down the road, it was, you couldn't even tell where the border was. And I thought that was, you know, an indicator of enlightenment in Europe anyway. And I thought that was the trend, didn't you? Now all of a sudden, borders are much harder. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And what we see is, you know, around the world, many leaders have been restricting nonessential travel. More and more, we're hearing these pronouncements coming out. Some of them are sealing off the borders entirely to help, you know, contain and curb the spread of this coronavirus. And, you know, at its core, I mean, there are certain, and actually here's an interesting thing to look back. We have a long history centuries ago where we began to see this use of border controls as a way of basically limiting the spread of disease. In other words, this is not the first time this has happened. Even looking back at the 14th century, the Black Death that went through much of Europe became a justification for some of the very earliest border controls. Now in the 14th, 15th century, we didn't have clearly defined borders. So maybe it was certain places where you knew, well, that side of the mountain or that side of the river, it wasn't until about the 16th century that we had atlases that began to deliberately, you know, show us or delineate the borders. But one of the lessons that we draw from that early experience is that border control and lockdowns as they've been going on for a long time, they tend to outlast whatever crisis they're supposed to prevent. So yes, you have a disease and the border comes up to, you know, control that. This took place, particularly the Italians were quite big on this, whether the Venetians or the, you know, the Genoans. And they host a lot of different examples. Italy used to have patrol ships and observation posts and horseballs. And this went on for quite a long time, at least until the mid 19th century. But my point here is that you start this process of putting up borders and controls. And sometimes, you know, once the issue has gone away, you continue to maintain that. I kind of think of it sometimes like when we create bureaucracies or institutions, it's very hard, almost impossible to make it go away, you know, it has a way of like redefining its reality. But at the end of the day, much of this is often, especially even today, a more of an expression of a xenophobic policy than any other enduring solution. Because again, while yes, it may sound good to say, oh, we're going to close that border. Interestingly, I just read some reports today up in the border of Mexico with Arizona and Sonora, the state of Sonora is the bordering state of Arizona. There's a group of Mexicans that have begun basically protesting at the border, not allowing Americans to come in. Because right now the US has a much higher incident rate of infection than Mexico. Mexico has been relatively low. So again, these things bring out, I think, a lot of fear and sensationalism. But at the same time, it's a, you know, governments are trying to show that they're doing something controlling that. Now, of course, when it comes to like airplanes, yeah, you can see because these are these are like a little, you know, petri dish of bringing people very closely together and a lot of concern about that. So, you know, we see it, China perhaps took the lead on this. And I can remember some 10 years ago, a trip I took there before you even got off the plane, they would come on board dressed in these white outfits and put a little temperature gauge on your forehead. And if you had a fever, you had to go this way. And that, of course, China has done a lot of that in their early stages of this crisis. But again, the borders, I mean, at the end of the day, these diseases because of the flow of people and movement of goods and transport of everything, it is very, very near impossible to contain it. Now, nevertheless, you certainly can address, you know, the spread somewhat. And so there's a reason why there's a desire for that. But I would maintain at the end that it's driven probably more by, I don't know, you know, gaining some some points with your with your popular, you know, with the masses that you take. You have a confluence of things here. Number one is trade war that Trump created. Number two is, you know, we have we have a decline in the economy because of coronavirus. Number three is the borders related to that is also sealed, in many ways, seal. And each country has its own, you know, border issues. And the global economy is going down. The trade war is still on. People don't know what to do about the virus. You got political xenophobic maneuvers happening. And the and the victim of all of this is not only the national economies involved, but the global economy. And I wonder if you could talk about that. I mean, how are all these factors, particularly the hardening of the borders, affecting the decline of the global economy? Well, we're getting just the early indications now, I'm sure over the next few weeks, we're going to see more about the really massive decline in trade and even China with its massive, you know, clampdown. Perhaps, you know, we've seen pictures from satellite of how massive, you know, the on one hand, the bright side is that the pollution has been brought down dramatically, but the flow of merchandise and goods. And because of the interconnection, again, the interdependence of the global economy, you have these supply chain networks where a product, maybe an iPhone that's assembled in China, it has parts from Malaysia from, you know, South Korea from, you know, California. And when you begin to put a, you know, a slowdown on any of those pieces of the supply chain, it just it creates a havoc on everything. So the world economy is certainly going into a pretty deep, deep crisis, probably the worst we've seen my guess would be since the Great Depression, by all measures. And so it's going to take some time to overcome that. And it won't quite be the same. You talked earlier, for example, about Europe and this idea, we've seen it in the last 30 years, the globalization of the world economy and borders, they have eroded. And, you know, and today, maybe not today, really, because we've got, again, more border controls. But in general, in Europe, you've got borders that have been eliminated and the free flow of goods and people. But now, suddenly a retrenchment and going back to creating more, look at the crisis, how it flared in Northern Italy, initially, and that border with France on one hand, with maybe Austria to the north, suddenly, they've had to impose restrictions that they didn't have for many years. The impact is, again, it's profound and it's psychological as well, because again, borders suddenly became almost just like, I mean, again, I travel quite a bit in Europe on a regular basis, and you didn't think about it. It's like driving in the US and going through, you know, Oklahoma to Texas, you know, you just see a sign, but there's no checkpoint. And that is now suddenly, now you've got borders all over the world. And even, I think, in the last day, we've seen reports that the US and Canada had been negotiating a potential border issues and the US trying to argue for pulling American troops along that US border to help with surveillance. The Canadians have been upset saying, no, you know, we've got this long border that for years has been pretty much open and massive, massive flow of trade. But basically, the US has a government, the Trump government has apparently been requesting US troops to be placed within 20 miles of the Canadian border. Again, this is a different world we're living in. And, you know, the Canadian border, most of it, most of it is not even marked. I mean, you can go on a snowmobile and just drive across without even seeing anything. But of course, at least in the major urban areas, you know, the borders in the Northwest and maybe other parts of the East, we're now seeing more tension about this and a desire to want to, you know, militarize the border. That's quite dramatic. Canada are, you know, our closest ally to the North. Really, this is terrible with unophobia. But going back to Europe for a minute, so you have the EU and you have, you know, the migrant problem into the EU, you have the UK, you know, shoving off from the EU, you have Trump refusing to pay the US share of the EU defense expense, you have Russia trying to dissolve whatever it can in Ukraine and make pipelines that bypass member countries of the EU, other ones that just trying to divide. And so the EU, it seems to me that by virtue of all these processes, including the fall out on the coronavirus, the EU is in great jeopardy as a trade group and as a sort of collective economy, don't you think? Yeah. And I think what it's showing also is even, you know, the variation within the different countries, the member states, how they're responding to it. And, you know, and maybe, whereas we had seen over these last almost 30 years now, well, since 1993, 1994, when the EU was formalized, we've seen a gradual but steady process of, you know, eliminating borders and, you know, maybe in some level a growing sense of a European identity, less of the national identity. This crisis is helping to, I think, bring back a resurgence of some of this nationalism. And you have some governments, maybe those that are more xenophobic, like the leader in Hungary, Viktor Orban, the Polish leadership right now, very anti-immigrant. And so there, this is just an additional beyond the migrant problem that's been there for the last five years. This is just one more, I guess, little wedge that's going to allow, you know, particularly, you know, populist and anti-immigrant leaders to use it as a pretext to continue to close the border. Even here in the US, again, we've seen recent tweets by President Trump that, you know, we need that border wall as if that's going to stop the virus. But it is an opportunity that it is an opportunity to push, you know, policies. And for the president, Trump, you know, that border wall has been one of his signature, I guess, promises to continue it and clearly using this crisis as an argument for further need for it. But the other thing we're talking about is Carlos, is that diplomatic relations, borders and diplomatic relations are inextricably intertwined. If you go, I wish I had one too, if you go to the four to five, we go forward. If you have a diplomatic, rather a border issue, you have a diplomatic issue too. And in the case of China, somehow our relationship with them, although, you know, in many ways it was superficial, our relationship now, the gloves are coming off. Trump is attacking them, they're attacking the United States. Their, you know, trade is under the influence of the tariffs. Everybody's calling each other names now. So the border is hardening conceptually and really in terms of trade and immigration. And at the same time, diplomatic relationships are weakening. And we see it clearly in the case of China, but I'm wondering if that's happening elsewhere. If the coronavirus on top of other issues that have hardened borders, hardened relationships, you know, doesn't that mean we are having a global decline in the, what do you want to call it, the courtesies and the friendship, otherwise involved diplomatic relationships? Absolutely. No, this has heightened tensions in so many ways. And, you know, on one hand, you mentioned China and actually just today the Chinese are now announcing that they will close their border to most foreigners starting this Saturday. They have a desire to want to, again, they've seen an increase in somehow the imported cases. And even though it appears that they have now managed to overcome maybe the bigger challenge there in this Wuhan city, but now they fear that, you know, imported cases will continue to unravel. But it doesn't help, of course, that we have here from the US, you know, a president who calls it the China virus or the Wuhan virus. So there's this growing, again, xenophobia, anti Chinese sentiment. But let me give you an anecdote here just in the region here, Mexico with one of its neighbors to the south from El Salvador, a recent incident a few days ago where there was an airplane coming. Basically, I believe it was coming into El Salvador, and they were refusing to allow it to land coming from Mexico, because curiously, even in this region of Latin America, there's been an interesting variation in the response of different leaders. Many of the countries, particularly in South America, have begun to take, you know, more aggressive steps to lock down and, you know, promote social distancing and the like, you know, Chile, Peru, Colombia, Argentina. The two outliers to most of this happen to be the two largest country, Mexico and Brazil. The leaders, both of them populists, one in Mexico, López Orelor is a populist leader from the left, the leader in Brazil, Bob Boltonado is a right wing populist, but both been criticized for taking a much more lax or lackadaisical attitude. Meanwhile, there are other, you know, brothers and cousins here in South America and Central America have been rather critical of that because they feel that, you know, they're not doing the right thing, let's say. But you have, again, heightened tensions about a lot of this, even, you know, tensions that have been there for the past few years with Venezuela and Colombia, Venezuela and Brazil, and a fear that if a country is not being responsible for taking care of what they need to, it's going to spill over and affect others. Again, that's the nature of these kind of global issues like this. And here again, I would just tell you, you know, we have a lot of debates about, oh, what could we have done more? Did we know it was going to happen? The reality is that we, you know, we have known for many, many years that this is one of the type of global challenges we will continue to face. Even as we get over this, hopefully in a few months by next year, we will continue to be struggling with pandemic diseases. It is inevitable. And just the movement of people of goods. And so how we handle this is going to have implications for how we can handle future ones. At the end of the day, like so many things in global politics, you need cooperation and coordination. Interestingly, the Europeans, who have a long history of that, in general, they're, you know, they're coordinating more carefully. But even there, we're seeing heightened tensions and maybe a certain nativism, you know, countries kind of perking down to take care of themselves first. And so it is, it is a time of breaking down, it's breaking down. And our foreign policy is declining and getting some fragmented. I mean, I read this morning that the United States that the Department of Justice had indicted Maduro in absentia, which is, I mean, that's that's not really the greatest, you know, foreign policy you could have. He is running the country de facto. So inditing him doesn't sound like it's a positive move at all. But I want to ask you one last question. We haven't talked about this. And then it's this, you know, early on, we heard a lot from the World Health Organization. They were dragging their heels on declaring a pandemic. But we did, you know, everybody was asking them, what do you think, what do you think? And they were dragging their heels. And I'm not sure what they're doing now. I think it's almost like they're off the stage. So we talked about the decline, the hardening of the borders. We talked about the decline of foreign, foreign relations. And in the question that comes to mind is, what about the United Nations? The United Nations was, you know, created to be a facilitator, to connect people up, connect countries up, and to avoid this kind of decline. Is the United Nations up to the job? Is it doing the job? What else can the United Nations do in a time where relationships between countries, international relationships for all these factors we've talked about are declining? Well, where is the United Nations these days? Well, here, just to clarify, the World Health Organization is an entity, part of the umbrella of the UN. It's an autonomous independent agency based in Geneva, Switzerland. But it is part of the UN family. And they are, of course, the lead agency for this. They bring together. And something we have to understand, I think often there's a misperception of the UN is if it was somehow world government or as if it had like even a rapid reaction force or military force, the UN is really a collection of countries, 190 some that come together. But in the end, it does more equation and maybe it only is as good as the members who are going to contribute to it. So here again, the World Health Organization is a group of experts in medicine and disease and whatnot. But ultimately, what they're doing is they're simply coordinating with the respective public health ministries of countries. And there is a role it is happening. And I think it's probably more relevant for smaller and medium sized countries. For the United States, we have a long history of skepticism and even disdain. And of course, under President Trump today, very strong anti UN sentiment anti multilateralism. But again, I want to just say that the UN doesn't have it's often criticized. It just doesn't have enough teeth or capacity to enforce things. So if nations don't want to cooperate, and sometimes the US chooses not to, it's not going to have a capacity to do anything about it. But I would tell you on something like what we see now this pandemic crisis that we're experiencing, the World Health Organization does have considerable credibility and legitimacy, and it is playing a role. It is not managing the crisis because that has to be done at the individual state level. And even there, states countries manage their own affairs, but you have a variation like the United States. Our federal system, even in Germany, would be a good example. The Chancellor of Germany, Angela Merkel, she doesn't have the power to enforce, you know, nationwide policies. Germany has a lot of in its federal system, a lot of power given to the individual states themselves. So she can only do so much as well. In the US is the same situation. What you have in the absence, maybe or the weakness of the leadership of President Trump, you have the governors of California and New York and other places stepping up to fill some of that void. And I think same with the UN, the UN doesn't have a capacity to force a solution. States have to step up and do it. However, I think for small states, for those that are maybe with less capacity, the UN becomes maybe a very powerful, you know, support network. But I would just say again, their main role is coordinating, you know, providing information expertise. But ultimately, we have a world today where these virtual communities, again, doctors and scientists who understand this, they have these networks all around the world that are connected and plugged in and using Zoom and these, you know, information technologies like we have here to stay informed. And they share information and they provide expertise. But we all, you know, we have to, I think, understand the UN is not world government, it doesn't have the capacity or the authority of governments to do what any government might be able to do. But things are changing so fast, Carlos. You know, next time we meet, hopefully a couple of weeks, I think we'll have a whole different conversation about a lot of these issues. It's worth watching in a time of transformation. I used to say transition, but it's really transformation, because when we come out the other side, you know, the study of international relations will be different. The study of foreign policy and diplomatic relations will be different. And I want to follow that with you. Carlos Warren. This is going to change you. Yeah. Thank you, Jay. And Aloha.