 Thank you everybody for coming today. I'm looking forward to Speaking with you like our illustrious host has said my name is David Zimmerman I own a small marketing agency called reliable acorn and feel free to tweet me my Twitter is there you can find me Let's catch up. So I've been doing my own thing for about four years now Before that for maybe about ten years or so. I was working in several agencies around Charlotte doing digital marketing SEO stuff like that While I was working for these companies. I I kind of gained a little bit of a reputation And that was my reputation was helping difficult clients Basically my job in my last agency was this client is a pain in the butt give him to David Right. They were difficult. They were unreasonable They had bad Expectations or they were just a jerk. I'll give him the David if they last a few months great if they don't well No loss because they're a jerk anyway So luckily I was able to help a lot of these clients even if they were on the unreasonable side sometimes and I think one of the reasons why I Was able to help these difficult Unreasonable clients is because I was willing to tell them one thing that most other Count managers wouldn't know This is the most important word you might not be telling your clients It is a scary Word we have to admit right because everything around us says The clients always right the customer is always right. How dare you tell them no Right, that's kind of a cultural thing. This is a from some grocery store Somewhere in the New England area. Honestly, I don't know how you could run a business realistically with this model But I think those of us who work on our own, you know, it's me and my cat make up reliable acorn We're small business She's the executive vice president of catting and she sleeps all day But this is the other reason why we're scared of saying this word, right? We are afraid that if we say no to a client, they're gonna take their money elsewhere And that's you know, I can't pay my mortgage on good intentions. I got I got to live So we're right now this might apply to you whether or you not you're an independent freelancer It could apply to you even in the case where you work at an agency You might think oh my gosh, my boss has said something stupid. How dare I say no to them? They're the expert, right? They're the boss for a reason Why wouldn't they be right? So we're afraid of saying no to them or we're afraid to say no because We're gonna be fired and we're not gonna have any of this To go see the New Avengers movie in a couple weeks, right or more importantly Solo when this ticket go on sale anybody know Luke. Do you know when Luke ticket? I keep asking anyway Point is saying no is scary But by the end of the day I Would like you guys To all feel more comfortable Saying no to your clients I'm here to empower you. I want you guys to take this concept of no and make it your own And one of the reasons why it's important for you to say no to your clients Simply because it helps them Let's take this word no, and let's make it altruistic If you want to help your clients You need to tell them no Anybody ever watch look at the oatmeal, right? Oatmeal, this is how a website design goes straight to hell Which is hilarious if it weren't so true Right Don't look at it now But look at later because it'll be funny. I had I had a circumstance where My own little oatmeal website design goes straight to hell where a client calls me one day and says hey David I want to put a picture of my puppy dog on the top of every page of my website Okay Why do you want to put a picture of your puppy dog on the top of every page of your website? Because my puppy dog is really cute. I'm not going to argue with you on that one But how will your cute puppy dog on every page of your website help you get more plumbing customers? Well, you know, I was just kind of Throwing it out there. I was just the brainstorming. You're probably right. We probably shouldn't do that You see what I did there? I said no. I Said no to a client and I helped them out Here's the scary part. I helped them out by saving the client money Sure, we could have taken time in their hours or their cash To put their puppy dog in every page of their website But that means the next time when they had a really good opportunity That came across their plate. They wouldn't have been able to do it Because they might have burned their budget. They might have had the money and missed out on a better opportunity You know, you might not have small plumbing clients. You might work for a fortune 100 company You still have a limit of budget you you as the experts Can help your fortune 100 company save and allocate and spend their resources more wisely If you say no Saying no Can help your clients a couple of maybe I'm a couple months ago a client called me. Oh My gosh, David. Have you seen our competitor has a hundred and seventy three followers on Instagram How many do we have? We have none Because we don't have an Instagram account Oh my gosh Stop everything We need an Instagram account with a hundred and seventy four followers Well, just out of curiosity, how many of you follow a law firm on Instagram? That's not a client Or you're related to right. Oh It could happen and and we could Spend time and money and resources developing a campaign on Instagram about medical malpractice and Get them a hundred and seventy five followers But would that have given them any more clients? Maybe it could so I asked We could do this or Your ad words campaign, which is already driving more Customers is only limited by the amount of money you can spend So if you took that money and you put in the ad words For sure you're getting new clients If we do Instagram you might oh Well, you know, I'm just making a suggestion David. I you're probably right. You see what I did there I said no And I helped them out Saying no Can help your clients with better results? And if you give them better results, they are going to pay you more saying no Can help your clients, you know You're here at work camp You're gonna learn a ton This week you can learn about good weekend. You're gonna learn about Gutenberg. You're gonna look about security from my buddy Steve Because he's got a lot to tell you There's gonna be a lot you're learning you might not be an expert in Wordpress by the end of this weekend, but you're gonna know more than your clients who aren't here You're gonna know more than the boss who sent you Give them the benefit of you being here and when they come with the crazy idea Say no It's okay in a way They are paying you to be here to tell them no You might not be a great expert in this you might not know everything about wordpress, but you know a more Help them By saying no, there's another reason You should tell your clients no Namely, it's that it helps yourself when I was working in the agency world I was Sitting in my office one day with a difficult client on the phone and they said Well, they were getting a little out So I sat and patiently tried to listen to their concerns They got a little louder so I tried to offer some possible Suggestions and they got a little louder and they compared me to an orifice on my backside. I was shocked Stared at the phone for a little bit until my boss burst into my office With the most angry look it points at me Points at the phone and says hang up Hi, I did didn't really know what to do. I I knew if I hung up on the client Clients done don't do what my boss says. I'm done if I I'm done either way. I hung up Boss runs out of my office into his office. I hear him pick up the phone and call the client And I thought where can I find a box to throw all the stuff from my desk? Because I will be needing a box shortly then I heard him say You are not allowed to speak to any of my employees in that fashion. We will no longer be working with your company You cannot speak with David Directly any longer as we transition your company away from us. You only speak to me You see what he did there? He said no, and that's why I want to work for him again one day, right? Yeah, having lunch with them on Tuesday John's great It's okay to say no For yourself. I know Well, I know the struggle Nobody pays you enough to abuse you And you need to look out for yourself and that's okay to do that Thankfully not all clients are that difficult sometimes clients Can be very friendly But a little annoying When I went out of my own and it was scary to go out on my own I asked myself well, okay Where is my next paycheck coming from? I better hustle and And There are a few cut Pete to turn client potential clients who came to me and they were willing to pay. Yes Yes, I will be not have to eat ramen noodles this week But You know sometimes the smaller clients They have a higher expectation and As I'm started to talk with some of the smaller clients. I learned really quickly That the expectation that they had for what they were willing to pay would basically meant I'm making less than minimum wage. I Wouldn't have enjoyed that Besides it would have been hard to pay my mortgage with that. I had to say no to money So I could be happier All right It's okay To say no to help yourself And I will tell you a little secret Luke my clients going to hold this cover whose ears so he doesn't hear this but If you say no to your clients You get to charge more right if The client who asked for a hundred and seventy four followers on Instagram So desperately wanted them They're going to take their money to somewhere else They're competing with every other yes person out there The service you're providing is just a commodity You're you're racing to the bottom with any old fool who will say yes for a buck You're becoming Odesque you're becoming fiver But if you say no you're giving them the benefit of your expertise and That's worth money You can say no actually make More money because then you're providing more than just the other person who provides more junk Saying no can help your clients Saying no Can help yourself. Hey, that's great Dave. Thanks a lot. No kidding How on earth you do it? Well, if you if you notice something in common with all the examples I'm giving of how I've With trepidation said no, there's something in common with each of them Don't really say no Most of the time you give them options You could bad your puppy dog every page your website Or you could do something that matters You you could stop everything drop everything we spend months building an Instagram campaign because you're intimidated by they have more people following them or We can actually get you new clients right now and today You can refer to me as an orifice on the human body or you can go somewhere else right Give people options Let me hold on to a sec. Can I hold on wait for questions later? Cool. Cool. So Right now I'm working with a client I don't design websites but often they hire me to kind of be a consultant for all the websites being built I'm kind of the Google advocate for the client to make sure when they're building site that when it's delivered Google can actually read it and will actually want to serve it in the search results So right now I'm working with a client. That's redesigned their site and Oh my gosh, David. We have got to have everything on the home page It's got to have a video. I need a slider for testimonials I need another slider for specials and I need every image to render on a 4k screen beautifully I Need everything in the kitchen sink And it's got to be on the home page, of course, right you guys know what I'm talking about, right? well No, you can't have everything But rather than just say no what I try to do is offer evidence of support I Try to quote something that will actually help them make the right decision You could have everything on your home page and it will take 20 seconds for your web page to load Google says you have three seconds That's the most someone will wait to view your home page or any page for that matter So we really need it to load into Or nobody is going to even see your sliders and your video give people options and support Your decisions with with statistics with research with your experience your expertise Provide a reason why they should make the better decision Few years ago a client called. Oh my gosh, David. We need a mobile website That was the phone we use at the time No, you don't you don't need a mobile website. Yes, David someone wants to sell me a mobile website I must have a mobile website You don't need a mobile website, so That's support my dad. I go to Google Analytics. Oh Well, I have 25% of their traffic at the time. It's from mobile. Okay But not a single conversion. Nobody from mobile is becoming even even trying to contact them So I said well listen, let's do this. Let's do a little test We're gonna put a little motor box on your home in your site And we're going to it's only going to show if it's a mobile visitor and It's only going to show a particular phone number if they are a mobile visitor And we'll see how many people call you from mobile And I'm thinking yeah, that's great. Right. It's nobody Three months later they had a mobile website right Because we use the data to help us inform our decision the thing is Saying no to clients is kind of like working with kids. I've started working with kids again These are some self-port or pouches. They drew for me. I don't know why I have bunny ears in one of them Or a black eye. I do not abuse the kids But if you've ever worked with kids, you know that you kind of get in this rut No, no, no, no, no, no I'm sick of it No Sometimes dealing with clients can be the same way And the temptation might be just just keeps saying no to get off my back I know what's best for you I'm just going to keep saying no The remedy is to support your reasons for why you're saying no So when they really do do the mobile website, you can actually give them the good advice to do it, right? Now of course We're all mobile, but you see what I'm saying. Well a couple months ago. I decided it's time for me to get in shape and For some harebrained idea I decided I would go sign up at my local gym and learn Krav Maga That's me being flipped last Thursday There if you look closely, there's a blurry smile because it is a lot of fun Well a few months in Our instructor says today. We're going to learn choke hold defenses That's cool No one's ever choked me. I Suppose if someone did choke me I'd want to know how to do it. Oh It's easy and the instructor just all right Square up Their hands are on your throat You raise your hand up tilt your head in twist your body break the coal clear their arms You're done. Oh That's easy. We could all do that right, right? so So okay great, so my partner lines up with me He puts his hands on my throat and I throw a freaked out Nobody had ever put their hands on my throat before Now it wasn't that this guy was intimidating He was my partner. We're practicing together. He was not getting mugged. This is his name was herb He was not a scary guy But when herb put his hands on my throat I Forgot everything it escaped my brain and I didn't know what to do I Think Herb saw the terror in my eyes and let go and we tried again Got a little better that time we tried again I got a little better try it again and by now Please don't try to choke hold me because I do it without even thinking about it, right? It's just so normal to me and Why do we do this in Croft? It's because the first time We ever someone jokes us we don't want it to be the first time where someone really trying to hurt us So we practice it so God forbid anybody do it in anger We're ready to receive it The same thing is true with saying no to your clients so Let's practice our choke holds together today All right, everybody. Are you ready? All right, we're gonna practice. Okay. I'm not a crop McGon structure Let's practice saying no together. All right, so I I'm gonna give you some hypothetical Situations that you may encounter may have already encountered Let's practice So the first time we have to it's not so scary Okay, here's the first one. I have this teeny tiny little change Can you make it for me? It should only take a couple of hours Okay, we're practicing. We're warming up to this guy. All right, this website design Sucks my kindergartner could do better Why am I paying you to do this shit? You suck No, come on. Come on. We got a practice guy. Can the first time you do it? You don't want it to be in an anger practicing now, right? All right Hey, I know the website scheduled to launch tomorrow Here are 10 pages of new direction in which we would like to take our website Please do this by the end of the day. You guys are getting it. You guys are getting it. That's a great Here's my personal favorite. I Have got this great project if you do it for free. I can bring you a lot of business later Anybody heard that one? Well, guess what? No No But we don't always have to be so direct When the person contacts us for the small change, maybe we say tell you what how important is that to you? That we do it right away Or can we wait till later because if we do it now other things aren't going to get done. Oh I didn't realize it that okay. This can wait to later right the abuse of client They have options If you can give me some specific critiques we can do better or Here's my phone number from my competitor. They'll be happy to help you website last-minute website changes I'll provide an alternative that I learned at where came Greenville a couple weeks ago Let's save that for version 2 Right and the client that has big promises, but no cash. I Don't have an alternative that because my mortgage company does not take good intentions So sometimes you just have to Say no Saying no can help your clients out Say no can help you Doesn't always have to be direct But it might be the most important thing that you're not telling your clients. Thank you all very much