 Today I have the pleasure of speaking with Jack Lifton. How are you today Jack? I'm pretty good Tracy. Thank you. Jack, there's a lot of buzz on lithium-ion batteries on investor Intel. Can you tell us what the catalyst for this is? Yeah, what's happening is that the American car makers are finally stepping up to the mass production of lithium-ion battery-powered electric cars. GM, the Detroit intergalactic auto show starts I guess the next couple of days and we still call it international even though nobody else does and GM is introducing the Chevrolet Bolt. It's 200 mile range electric car which which goes on sale this year at the end of the year as a 2017 for $30,000 including your government kickback on tax breaks. So it's really cheap and it's good timing for them in the in the market because Tesla's having a problem bringing their low-cost car into production. So Ford's got a huge program which at the Consumer Electronics Show the other day in Las Vegas, their current president Mark Fields announced a huge electrification program and self-driving cars and all that stuff and on top of that the Chinese five-year plan coming out in March for the next five years. Mandates a switch to to electric propulsion for cars to reduce pollution in the large cities and the Chinese are actually targeting five million units a year by 2020. Now these are the drivers for for the interest in lithium-ion batteries. That's what's going on here. These very large scale applications and at the very least you're looking at millions of cars being made by by the end of this decade with using lithium-ion batteries and I know that the companies here in Detroit there are we have several lithium-ion battery companies are very active right now. Now to contrast this or on the other side of the coin the national newspapers like the Washington pollster saying well the the electric car is another flop it didn't work and all that and what I found in in my life is that whenever the national newspapers and I say say something isn't happening it's for sure happening and if they say tomorrow's weather is great I'm getting my overcoat. They're always wrong and they're consistent in that. I think that this is we finally hit this is going to be a very good period for for lithium batteries. Okay, so what I hear you saying is that the real demand is from China for lithium-ion batteries and I think you told me that the driver is going to be once again you know China for this market and that this industry is going to in essence mirror what happened with the rare earth industry. Can you kind of comment on this a little further? Well, I I don't think we're going to have the silly season here with lithium. Lithium is basically one item and its costs are very well known it's it today it's it's very low price however in my opinion we're going to run into a deficit of this material in the very near term because in fact as I as I mentioned it's not just China it's United States also which is the world's third largest car market after Europe and then and first is China is now Going full steam ahead into electric car production. I want to point out something people Investors in particular do not seem to understand inertia. It takes a long time to design a car and Once the design is fixed You're three you've got three years to source the parts and you source everything People who think that because there's some discovery in a laboratory this afternoon It's going to change the world of manufacturing are completely inexperienced Things are set. They're going to make a lot of lithium-ion battery Powered cars in the next for the rest of this decade Whether they whether they want to or not the parts have been sourced the the factories have been scheduled They're done years in advance the Chinese are doing the same thing. It's momentum here now getting back to price All right, lithium to I don't know what the current price of lithium is last time I looked it was six or seven dollars a kilo It's got to go higher because we're already at the limit of how many of these batteries we can make and Another thing there is no public company I'm aware of that's recycling lithium-ion batteries to recover the lithium the electrolytes the cobalt, etc This is going to be look for those companies because we're woefully short of that And one of the things you lithium-ion batteries are not difficult Chemically to to recycle. They're a little dangerous Be much more dangerous than than then then let's say recycling lead acid batteries Because of the fire hazard. So you've got to know what you're doing. This is going to be another market I expect to see companies popping up now that are that are recycling lithium-ion batteries So we're looking at I'm looking at the whole supply chain. What's missing? Well, we have a little bit of lithium production in the United States note that not anywhere near enough for our own industries projected production So something's got to give because the Chinese like as they are chasing rare earth companies are chasing lithium companies They're all over the place and when when a Chinese company buys a lithium producer or a junior that they think will be a Producer that material is for the whole market. They are short also So it's going it's going to be a race. There's don't anybody bid lithium up to the price of gold It isn't gold or maybe maybe today who knows with gold, but Lithium is a is going to be a very active market, right? Starting now and for the next five years, we'll see if the public likes these cars You're they're going to be offered Dozens of models and millions of units Okay, well fantastic. Jack. You've just answered my next two questions So I have one more for you, but I want to read this because it's it's very specific and we're notes from a conversation that we had earlier Since the Chinese will be putting a major push for lithium-ion batteries and that their interest is really to benefit China Okay, we hear you What should the US be doing because I've heard on the grapevine for instance said the Department of Defense wants the US to be Self-sufficient in titanium. Okay, for instance, can you comment on this and of course? Yeah As John Peterson my my new colleague and investor Intel pointed out the lithium titanate the electrode Which is called lithium titanate for for lithium-ion batteries. It gives you maybe the best performance at least Laboratory-wise it's it's not the cheapest one and it's it's not the one with the the highest power But it's it's very good because it gives you a long live battery I Happened to know a company right here in Detroit lithium-ion battery company that is now switching over to the titanate electrode Well again, we don't produce titanium metal in the United States We import all of it from you know our Sort of sometimes friends the Russians and even the Chinese are importing from them There is a push on to source titanium in the United States domestically or at least from a friendlier place than Russia so One of the drivers is the need for it in batteries But the other driver is the use of titanium structural alloys and aircraft missiles And and strong lightweight construction if we had titanium freely available You you would see a lot of civilian uses bridge Reinforcement buildings things like that, but titanium today is strictly an imported material and this I think will change I know I know personally of several nano technology companies that are looking at titanium To make as a pot to produce titanium powder for 3d printing and this is another push It's called the additive issue in the Defense Department is is Absolutely nuts for additives of high-strength titanium Even some steel alloys aluminum to be printed so parts to be print, you know It was a fantasy a generation of science fiction now. It's real. I Understand that they're designing a system to be taken to the moon and print all the parts for Needed by a lunar colony now. This sounded ridiculous to me when I was a kid. I your age, but today I'm thinking it's real Okay, I've seen some things that surprise me. So it titanium lithium These are these are hot Topics right now in in in the world and in particular in the United States where we don't produce enough enough lithium Or as far as I know any titanium we have titanium all over the place or but we don't produce the metal this it's it's a chemical issue which I Advise look on Wikipedia. You'll see the problem. Okay, but It's a future it's definitely the future it's it's here Speaking of the future in about a hundred and twenty days We're you're gonna be in Toronto for the clean tech and technology metals summit And we're gonna be talking about this in in upcoming interviews But with regards to the lithium ion batteries and any of the technology metals required to make these I'm trying to Determine and of course you will be assisting like you did last time on the topics and the panels Whether or not this is the clean tech or the technology metals day Which which which day are we gonna have this discussion or both? Well, I think the public understands clean tech and and they don't seem to understand technology technology metals explanations require a bit of physics and chemistry and and you know that that usually borers people Clean techs easy to understand the technology. That's that pollutes less than the one being used now That's clean tech. I would go with clean tech crazy Well, thank you so much Jack, and I hope you have a great day. Thank you