 Hi there, Michael Kerens from Selvos Housing. In New South Wales, we have a situation where if a private landlord leases a property for under 75% of the market, sorry, as at 75% of the market rent, they can be, and they're within a geographic area of distance from the GPO, they can be, get a land tax waiver. And your comment that land tax is going to go up, well, could this be more of an incentive to private landlords to offset lower rentals? Absolutely, but I think we'd need to talk to Andrew Barr. He's very keen on, he says preserving a dollar. I think that's Frank's term, actually. This house preserves every dollar it can get and land rent has gone through the roof and we really need to be in line with the other states, but you raised something very interesting which I in turn will raise with him, but that's a good point, thank you. I'll just add to that, that we're actually in discussions with the ATO at the moment for looking at whether landlords that reduce their rent to 75% of market rent could then claim that 25% as a tax deduction against, so it's a charitable donation. We're putting together a paper at the moment, they wanna see what we're doing, how we're doing it, why we're doing it, and how we'd measure things like what affordable rent is at the 25% and how we'd then benchmark market rent. So to be able to prove that difference is actually a donation. So there's some work being done around that and if it does happen, that's gonna be amazing for our landlords to be able to then tick some more boxes with just allowing us to rent their property and get some value add back to them. Sean Kelly from Housing. Can I just ask you a question really about of the two industry representatives on the panel about what role they see their industries playing in terms of matching people with disabilities to the property. I think it's a very complex process for people with high levels of support requirements and particular property requirements to actually get the right property. And I think if we're relying on people with disabilities to negotiate an already complex market around support, how do we kind of I guess ease some of those barriers for people in trying to be matched to the right property? Thank you. I really think it's an education thing and my last point was that the landlords, the investors, the agents and the property managers need to be across it in a more positive way than what they are today. I also said, I thought that some of them didn't know how to handle a lot of those situations. We need to make sure that we provide the education base so that they are aware and that it's gonna be a very good thing for them. It's gonna be more of it and it'll be good. So it's all about education. Thanks Sean for the question. I think it's interesting, I think it's a point I was really trying to make that we can't sit there in isolation and just deliver a form that is a one-size-fits-all. I think we recognise today that we've got a more diverse community with a whole range of needs. There will be some things that will be standard and then there will be other things that need to be actually quite specific to individuals. I think we've seen the industry change. We're not out there and there's not the speculative housing being built that there once was. It's more in the contract situation and so that's because the demands, I guess, of communities have become far greater these days and so it's just not good enough to deliver as a sort of one-size-fits-all. I just wanna add to that. We've found particularly at Homegram when we're working in the private rental space and unlocking it for our clients that are homeless and in need to really look at recruiting people that can work across both sectors. It's not necessarily the job of a social worker to go out and source private rental because that's not where their feel comes. They don't feel comfortable in that space going into real estate agencies. They're coming from a different world. So we've found by recruiting people that have come from real estate into the social services and are able to go across both. We're getting better access for our clients. So they're talking the talk, walking the walk, but then coming back into a relaxed environment and able to work with clients as well. So yeah, I've found that a really good help. Hi, my name's Jose Robertson. I'm one of those people that was forced out of ACT housing because of having a two-graded income. Now the circumstances of that were my 40-year-old paraplegic wife decided that she would like to have a child and join basically mainstream society in that wish. So we had to go to private rental property which is damaging her every day. This is just my personal background, but the question that I'm asking, which is of a broader nature, is then why cannot the ACT NDIS task force amend its guidelines so that in order to help the builders that have been thrown out of work in Canberra, if you wish to build an accessible new-build house, you can do it with the assistance of the NDIS right now. At the moment, we have to wait until 2016 to even enter into a conversation with the NDIS about building an accessible home. Unfortunately, the task force isn't here. Could I take that question on notice and give you a reply? I'll do the apologies, but I'll represent that isn't here. Sure, thanks. My apologies, but I will take that on notice and give you a reply. Shannon, did you have a last question? Yeah, sure. Look, I mean, one thing I'd really like to say that it always comes up that ACT is quite a weird jurisdiction because of the way that our private rental market works. We don't have an affordable private market rental. It just doesn't exist. And I think that's one of the big issues that happens. And I'd sort of challenge that thing you were saying, Ron, about public housing, the number of sort of people paying full market rent around those income levels is really insignificant these days. Most of them have moved on. The only way you really get in public housing these days is through the MDP if you've got really complex needs. It's not accessible. The big gap we have there is between social housing down at 25% rental and then you jump straight to sort of your three-bedroom house at 450, your two-bedroom apartment around 420. What's actually really missing is that middle ground. And I actually think in the ACT, that's the thing in terms of affordability that would actually free up a lot of those places because we actually have a lot of people there that will sort of, there's a disincentive for them to actually get employment, get more stable and actually try and get into the private rental market because there's too great a risk between that level of social housing and those high levels of private market rentals. And I don't see a lot of buildings or builders that are out there that are trying to target that section of let's go out and build a house that might actually get rented out for only about $283, $300 a week. No, and I'm taking the last point first. No, you won't. As John has said, there's no speculation out there in terms of housing now. It's all contract and built to form. But on the first point, CHC Affordable Housing target something like 25% low market rent for those that qualify. So there is somebody out there trying to do that but there's no other formal company or agency which is trying to hop into the private market. I think ACT housing have gone a long way and that's what's drawn me a lot about putting the kiosk in is that those people who don't qualify for ACT housing can be assisted through having bonds paid for them. They've got to pay it back. But bonds paid for them should they find an appropriate property that they can find in the private market. And that will be a huge incentive if you like and benefit to those people seeking to get into the private market. And I think you find rents in the last 12 months have come back at least 10% sometimes a lot more than that. And that's because we've got 4,000 properties on the market for rent right now and that's going to increase. And I think it'll increase even further because of the burden of land tax. So there will be plenty of opportunities out there but in terms of a central agency concentrating on just that one area apart from government. No, there isn't at this stage. I beg to add to that. It's about asking the question. It's about having an agency or multiple agencies willing to ask that question of their landlords. Can you, will you give us property at affordable rental? There's so many people out there that are in a position that they can. They might have a portfolio of two or three or just the one property. They've owned it for 25 years. They're in that age bracket where they're starting to question what they've given, what they've done for society. If we don't ask the question, we're never going to get it. If we want affordable housing, we want to unlock the private rental that we have now. We just need someone to stand up and start asking for it and to give someone the quality service back. So we can't ask for something and then not provide excellent professional property management. But if we can put it together in a package, it works. People are willing to do that. I think we've heard a fairly wide spectrum today of opinions and the face and principles. I think I picked up from a land quite clearly some principles as we move in this, this piece of work around affordability, accessible, well located, suitable, secure, and then to create it. So I think there were some grip principle statements that are a fairly significant overview of what the situation is and what the faces is. Mark talked about private capital for social good and alerted us to the fact that there is a large amount of that capital available and how you actually broker that will be challenges. Jason really talked about a very unique model of banking that is available locally and also that there's long-term funding at local discretion, which give a high degree of ownership in our own community. And he also put a number of significant issues and challenges I felt the government in this presentation as well about being more in the favor of their thoughts. Neil talked about application, trying to actually bring a lens of realism to it about how you would actually go about getting the finance but also building the capability of your organization to achieve that. I heard clearly from Belinda and you've said it again, which really resonated to me. Do you say to people, do you have something you can give? And we often think about products and charitable products that are in the marketplace. This is a very practical application that could be done in your case examples was really inspirational to hear. The very fact too that you've been able to achieve a 75 of these rental products since March is a unique achievement. Ron, I don't know why I buy you coffee, Ron, but anyway, that's another conversation. But your challenges has ever been fantastic. Your insight into this area has been great and your leadership too, Ron, the real estate institute, I very much appreciate the conversations we've had. I think you've put out a range of challenges to where government needs to think. And plus you again had a synopsis and it was lovely to hear your synopsis of the sexy and principles that Alain presented from a real estate agency. And John's presentation very much talked about, I think was really good to hear that industry has to start building to need rather than form. And I think that's a great message for us to hear today that that's where the Master Builders Association is looking. On behalf of us all, I'd like to thank Alain, Mark, Jason, Neil, Belinda, Ron and John for their presentations. And I'd also like to thank Paulie, who's been quietly, laboriously writing a script today, which I've noticed with great interest that people have actually been relying heavily on it, not just for me, but they've been relying heavily on it to actually get the context of the conversation. So again, thanks very much for attending today. Again, thank you to all our presenters. Thank you. Thank you.