 Hello everyone, hope everybody has had a nice lunch, but are still awake and it was not too heavy You know I always so you know why I think first question to the panel should be should we have it when people are hungry and want to Go for lunch, or should it be after they come back for lunch and they are sleepy? But I'll save that question anyway, so yeah today, you know, we definitely are in a digital Explosion happening and there is this omnichannel consumer journey where You know the right at the right time you need to target the consumer with the right messaging so many things happening so many platforms so many tools So in in this kind of a scenario one wonders, you know, is it becoming more easier is it becoming more complex? Is it becoming more efficient? And with this I think we'll open the panel and my first question You know, I think we prepared, you know Before we're coming over here, and I think the first question will be of course, you know on What are the key challenges today in this kind of a scenario and I would like to direct this to sujay from L'Oreal Hi, hey, thank you. Thank you so much for the question. I think it's a tricky one and it's a tricky one why because The way things have kind of evolved in the last 10 years It has become even more challenging for us and it's gonna be more challenging going further And I'm sure a lot of my fellow members in the panel might conquer this view And actually if I have to put it It's problem of plenty Problem of plenty in terms of one number of consumers One number of platforms One number of maybe campaigns and things which we have to do as a marketer day in and day out So that problem of plenty is actually posing a lot of problem Us as a marketer, and I'll probably go a little bit deep into all those three facets Problem of plenty in terms of consumers I think like the explosion has happened like some six seven years back when Geo kind of disrupted everything by our data and probably everybody in the country had had a mini TV in their hands So so that problem of plenty happened So with that the challenge for us as a marketer is actually to figure out the right consumer and That is what the constant struggle is and depending on the kind of brand you are the kind of sharper targeting You would need that problem of plenty actually Oases a lot of challenge and that is where probably a lot of brands are looking at first-party data How leverage that data how to create lookalikes of the data and we can probably touch upon that topic The second question is probably problem of plenty of platforms Probably a decade back. It was just his book Now you can name at least in social networks who have a sizable presence in the country So so just to figure out how you will activate your campaigns across these platforms is a problem of plenty for us and Then obviously problem of plenty in terms of activating those campaign because we as a marketers are in this constant Circular thing where it's like how many number of campaigns? What should be the objective of the campaign should we do should we not do again? Then there is this new layer of Real-time marketing and then what we are doing for a content calendar. So there are so many things earlier as a brand It was just like okay two campaigns H1 H2 you are done now that that problem of plenty of campaign is also kind of Throwing a lot of challenge and yeah on that note. I'll just yeah, thank you Thanks so much to Jay. Absolutely so many things to do and but I mean I have when we were discussing go backstage Definitely a very very eminent panel with a lot of experience in tackling this kind of a problem of plenty So, you know HDFC would have you know, definitely used Evolved over these years one of the first movers in digital marketing From a homegrown brand perspective. Yes, Javed. Please so omni channel if I have to be slightly loud about the fact It's a myth. It's a dream. It's a dream of every digital market here Okay, but it's a distant dream. It's like an oasis. I reach over there, but then I realize oh, we are nowhere close to it Okay, so see now. What's omni channel? Omni channel has to be aptly supported by campaign orchestration campaign suppression Okay, how can you orchestrate a campaign when you don't even know my first party data? Which is let's say email SMS website notification. Okay, they have no clue What's my second party data is doing and there is absolutely no clue how they're getting exposed to third party data Okay, so when there's so much of in silos happening. Okay. Yes, maybe within my first party data I can control omni channel orchestration, but look at this fact. You might be a eligible for credit card Okay, I am talking to you across my three four of my platforms But you if you are a credit card eligible, you might be eligible for a personal loan also right for an auto loan also, right? So how many of my campaigns are you getting exposed to and that much of media? I'm wasting on you, right? So a true omni channel will be where I know your channel propensity where I know your time propensity Where I know your content type propensity and I can sequentially tell you this is the way I'll talk it and layer that with the entire digital platform is my offline channel That should not be ignored and that can't be ignored right that and then somebody will come and say Both are recalls are a ticket So now my thing is if we have to do a true real-time omni channel orchestration of campaigns All these data has to come have one customer view and then I can first off do the campaign and then I can also Suppress the campaign forget about banking because banking is a combination of online and offline. I have seen real-time e-commerce campaigns I have bought the product, but still they remarketing me with the same product. I have bought it Where are you? Why are you wasting media monies on me? So I think that's where the Lacuna is and yeah, but I think that's the way we can handle it if we can handle it Yeah, thanks so much Yeah, you know Ritika and Yeraka y'all have any points to add on your challenges Okay, so I completely agree with what Javid just said But interestingly, you know, I think omni channel. I think of course there's a lot of way to go Trust me like you know, I come from dr. Eddie's whereby we literally like trying to crack omni channel because our channels are a lot more physical and online as you can Imagine the conversation doesn't really stop in media. It goes beyond right? There's physical connect with the doctor also happening So, you know the point I'd like to add is the problem of plenty is Good in this current scenario to have as long as it justifies And in the incremental value like you said the media money, which is kind of getting wasted on a consumer right now So the conversation really is that is the ad technology platform Which you have chosen being configured correctly to probably give you a different messaging Like you said, there was a credit card, you know a customer could there be an you know Cross-sell to a home loan customer or a personal loan customer Configuration is the problem. So I feel like though dynamic creatives really exist today The configuration is probably not in the stages yet So I think maybe that's an area where we could probably, you know improve on Yeah, so so I think you rightly put it omni channel is really a dream I mean we can keep chasing it But I think I think what's what's really important is to to really understand The the the purpose of these different omni channel platforms for you as a brand Okay, I'm not saying that we should not be doing omni channel But are these really platforms coming together for you to really solve a purpose or the or the problem for your brand because sometimes I have seen that you know brands just go and want to invest in multiple platforms without really understanding What is your expectations from these platforms, right? So so yeah omni channel is something which which is really important But I think the right platform strategy for executing an omni channel is equally important Thanks. Thanks so much Siddharth. You have because you got an MIQ to solve some of their problems. So yeah, absolutely Thanks a lot. So I think these these problems are real, right? And that's why What we have been doing is we have been connecting data, you know from various sources and that's what we specialize in in a very good way And then of course we also talk about how programmatic can help you with omni channel buying It is not perfect for sure But I think you know we have to look at the what is the best solution or what is the best technology? I have right now and within that framework programmatic definitely is the best answer we have and What we have seen is that you know We have experience in other markets as well and over a period of time as these channels come up new channels come up Programmatic has been the technology which has been able to kind of combine them in the right way And that's because you know you are going through the audience strategy You are moving away from your earlier content based advertising strategy and you're moving more and more into audience strategy and definitely there is a need for Targeting my audience across channels programmatic is the technology which is already built and You know is doing that to an extent it all depends on how platforms open up talk to each other and then you know programmatic Is able to do more justice to the problem and over a period of time It does happen because because there is a genuine need in the market and things have to move in that way Thanks so much, you know so while we audience definitely audience targeting is definitely The priority over here so you can build efficiencies now while we discuss more on programmatic definitely Want to understand, you know other tools, you know beyond programmatic Because when we come to programmatic we'll address are there other tools of Javed Sujoy you all have you know any of you who have used and what have been your and you might have used multiple tools No multiple platforms, so If y'all can just share something with the audience on your experiences and your recommendations so I think Without naming each of these tools. Let's discuss the use cases. Okay, right? So we have understood that We have learned it the hard way that digital the way we say digital is digital's advantage Generally goes as a disadvantage because if you go to the organization and say I'm going to do digital marketing people Will say oh and again, which is not the case Okay, so how we have evolved and we have made these tools stacks basically on top funnel mid funnel and Leave me mid funnel is a very concentrated. It's underused people use the name mid funnel But I don't know how many brands are it literally doing mid funnel and then obviously the performance stack at the core Okay, so what I've done is if you have start from performance. We have taken all our homegrown first-party data Matic Tools as are completely performance because given the band the brand the pool that it has the first-party number of data that we have Okay, I think the own data does notifications email SMS website and today website We have a 90% personalization rate on website obviously to the identified base. Okay, but the entire website gets personalized Okay, so that combination is doing in its best in terms of performance But what we always lacked is nurturing and being at the trauma when people the intent of it We can always give you a offer. We know which is the segment where I should be talking to okay But when I should be talking to was always a question We have realized that you know with a brand like us We don't really need to be at the moment of truth moment of truth should be at his mind when he's looking for a loan Because you generally don't start looking for a loan you start looking for the car or you start looking for the house Or you start looking for your travel. Okay, and then comes the enabler, which are we okay? So what we have started doing is we One we have found out for a toma and if you have to do a TV like planning at a much more cost-effective late Which is we do a sufficiency led TV like planning Okay, the usage of video be the world of CTV mind with YouTube and a part of meta and obviously how we are using the videos are metas usage of video vis-a-vis YouTube with a We see TV is a brilliant combination that can be used as a top funnel Okay with the right measurement mix and the right objective right then comes mid-funnel where we are using Programmatic to a largest extent but mid-funnels objectivity is completely nurturing and to grow that channel up Because if I have to grow my remarketing pool if you know offline sales you remember people used to ask Yeah, though business Ajay Kalkali a care for digital. That's me. That's a mid-funnel. That's my offline pipeline Okay, and third for performance. I told you we are completely dependent on my homegrown first-party tools that we're having Okay, so that's how we have divided the stack across top mid and bottom Since you spoke about mid-funnel and since content creators play a very very big role in the mid-funnel today And the tools are all platforms that are going to be able to And each that you know any thoughts on that? So Joey you're also I mean in the category that will depend on And then create is a lot. Yeah, I think yeah as far as mid-funnel is concerned and if you ask me personally my POV is that I'm I'm slowly looking at a little literally funnel less journey because We as a beauty and CPG brand what we look at is How we can create demand and then convert demand if I have to just put it in two words So in create demand there are a lot of things which we Do and basically it is about one is obviously Toma Then second is about the aspiration which you create because being a professional and luxury brand how you kind of create that aspiration and then Sometimes it is all about the brand story narrative because we have some fantastic powerful brands and it's important to tell those stories the consumers and to create that aspiration once I think In a way you have managed to do that the whole idea is to convert that demand and in our case specifically the conversion happens Across multi-channel. So the conversion can happen in a salon conversion can happen on an Amazon. So Challenge is today is not only look at that that whether you call it a linear funnel or finalist journey but to drive that aspiration and that is where there's a lot of content creators play a role and Given the fact how probably platforms like Instagram has evolved in the country That is something which we are keenly looking at but again Story comes back to that same point is how you are attributing your final Conversions to whatever content did you have created and that is the same question That same thing pops up and as a marketer we face face that challenge But what we have tried to do is slowly getting into these models where you can attribute the final conversion to Whatever the content which you have created and probably the media which you have put behind that content So sorry just just one point on this okay on the mid funnel since you since you mentioned So while I would really love to connect and convert that is the dream for me But it really doesn't happen that way in all the categories right in some of the evolved Involved categories rather where you know the time for conversion is more so at times What happens is you spend so much on the top of the funnel and you forget the middle of the funnel And you expect that the conversion is going to happen So the middle of the funnel is equally very important like for I don't want to name any specific thing But for example for us influencers is a very big middle funnel content creators Okay, which help us to bring the people from the top of the funnel to the I know start considering or start thinking about the brands So, you know, it's not it's really important to focus on the middle of the funnel and I completely agree with him on that Yes, so, you know when you are speaking this attribution model Are you using are that platforms today that are helping you to do the attribution or are you building your own models? So actually we are doing both and without naming any particular platform at this stage What I would probably just simply put it in the way is that yes There are platforms which can do a certain amount of attribution for you then the way we are also looking at it is that We are looking at a platform where we can do cross-platform attribution. That is where A lot of technology investments are going into I think with ads data hub coming in. Okay, it's in beta But the way we are trying to see is It impression lead. Yes, the platforms are restricted But it's impression lead to offline conversion or even conversion from a last click attribution, which is a homegrown Let's say it can be a WhatsApp email SMS website But the impact of your paid and the impact of all these things that we're doing Okay, who are conversion is kind of ADHD might be able to solve for us at least that's what trying to do And that's so we have to build our own models because there is no other tool which is giving you a out of the box model. Yeah That any thoughts on this because programmatic platforms today do not really You know involve the content creator belt of the funnel Yeah, I think You know the social layer is where obviously the content creation is happening and that's Creating that that's a very important factor. I think programmatic is more of a technology solution. So for example We have a solution where you know if a brand runs a YouTube campaign, right? What do we are able to do is we are able to help them understand that you know Who are the mini creators on YouTube who are playing a big role in Generating more views for your campaign right and where consumers are more engaging and then you know that insight is provided to the brand And with that obviously, you know, we are able to use those insights to refine the YouTube campaign at the same time Brand is able to understand. Okay. These are the mini influencers who I don't know But now I know and I can probably some of them I can engage with them directly and take their help to strengthen my mid funnel as well So I think programmatic can play a role to provide a lot of insights around content creators And then from their brand can stitch in their content Strategy and connecting with the influencers in the right way to strengthen their mid funnel Thanks. If I can also add I think one of the things You know one could do is you know Pack your share of voice pre-campaign Whether it's you know, whatever whatever immediate tool you're using Track it post campaign. Maybe you don't get an immediate Nanda, but you definitely can see how it has impact because the connected consumer is interacting You do get an impact on you know, either the pull and search or on share of voice Okay, now from here, you know, since we are talking about, you know, the Proliferation of platforms there is also the challenge of how can you connect the other mediums? So, you know one of course you have the connected TV kind of things, but you also have TV and print So you see an ad on TV or print and you are going to immediately search. So any thoughts on that any tools you all have used So you have a retail presence very high retail presence So anything, you know, if y'all can share on what you have done to are you using again technology to help you When it comes to activating multiple mediums One thing which we lean at which is like a little old school, but triple M Which is like media mix modeling how we do it which media is having what kind of effect? In in the entire chain, but again the the biggest drawback of that it's not real time So it actually dwells on a lot of past data and then it gives you a direction that okay fine Medium X has got this much contribution or medium Y has got this much contribution So it is like a lot of look back Probably plan things but as of now the biggest gap We personally feel is There is nothing which is more of real-time which can give you cross platform or cross media Solution things are still evolving. We are working with our partners, but there is no immediate solution for that per se From reporting point of view. Yes, it's not there But I think what we're loving is the way we have cross device connectivity in terms of device serving So today CTV is on the rise at least for the NCCS a B plus population that we are looking at 50 60 million at the max. We're not going beyond that. Okay, so for that CTV is working really great now What's happening is let's say you're already a logged in customer. Let's take YouTube CTV Okay, so if you are via YouTube you're logged in my remarketing is super efficient Okay, also if if I the whole Competition led remarketing is also being on the rise which is on TV versus your mobile screen, right? There is your digital outdoors. It's very niche at this point of time but but maybe at the airports where I know what kind of content to serve and With a pinch of salt the remarketing pool again that I'm because we are focusing on the remarketing pool quite a lot Okay, so data is being served great But what next with the data especially with the exposed lot non-exposed lot and what to do and that's the storytelling that follows here You know from here, you know since you also spoke about you know audience being the most Important and important aspect of your buying today. You know is you know programmatic You know The answer to a lot of the challenges that marketers are facing today. What are your views on this? Okay, so Maybe a correlation from the earlier conversation, right? So there's there is some bit of programmatic which is great because the fact that there is signals Which is you know, you're using to build segments probably personalized messages. I feel there's a whole lot of Gray zone area right like like for example It's a very similar conversation to the last click attribute which we all pretty much fight for right Who's the conversion really attributed to whether it was that last mile click or was it some you know The entire journey which kind of correlated to it Things like for example outdoor programmatic solutions I'm still, you know digesting to the fact that Just because I saw a hoarding or I was near the hoarding That was the reason for me to you know go further into the journey from an you know Awareness perspective to a consideration is I still feel a gray zone and not really been you know proven today Only models like media mix modeling for example, which are traditional in nature Which can actually tell you there is a you know lift an attribute which happens Then there is a merit to kind of you know pulling them into the journey. I feel today programmatic still is a very It's not really evolved to a linear journey of sorts You know to say that this was really the consumer journey mapped out and that is what converted and I think that's That's the challenge that I at least struggle with with programmatic Any different experience I can just add to it. So I think I completely agree with Ritika and There are there is no direct correlation which you can draw and definitely studies are very very important Right. So for example recently we did one of the first case study on how CTV is helping you on brand lift Right, so we have to test all these channels on programmatic and we have to do the studies is very important Secondly as much as possible, you know when we do the campaigns we try to Tie in all the channels together right through an ad server mechanism For example and then do the path to conversion analytics right that you know, okay This is the consumer journey, you know in terms of the various impressions from across channels And then this was the journey after that consumer some consumers did not go to the website Some consumers did go to the website then what did they do there and then mapping it back so there is You know so so I think tools are there But there is very important factor of the right tech implementation and then driving the data and analyzing that data so there's definitely a lot of manual input which goes into making programmatic and data work and You know we are we are not at a stage where everything is automated for sure But yes, I think it all together is very very critical without that You know you will not really be able to have clear view that these are the channels which I need to invest in And this is how I need to invest in this one more point I wanted to add into the you know the conversation that you just said I think programmatic really helps you make richer Understanding of your consumer that I must say I completely give every nuance Let's say a person visited my website, you know went into a product page did not go to a product page visited my website Probably switch it off immediately was turned off by the content, you know Those are implications which I think programmatic is contributing to a huge lot Which I never thought we had in the previous past. I think that is a huge advantage I don't think any research data today Gives us so deterministically an understanding of our consumer which I think programmatic full kudos to that And in fact for the fact that we collect all of this in in forms of CDP today is Huge win for programmatic today So yeah, I think for us programmatic has been a great savior in terms of media savings Okay, so because we always track in terms of sufficiency, right? So after what kind of number of frequency with the combination of reach and frequency after that It does not plateau and the cost of plateau is incrementally high We in one campaign if I just mentioned a number in the closed doors 78 lakhs is what we saved in one month Okay, just because of doing it obviously there are wall gardens But programmatic is actually opening in the OTT is completely opening up barring the live events Okay, it's a huge saving for media savings for us. Yeah, so, you know this brings to the question of you know Digital You know and especially with you know any digital like campaign weather brand is also advertising elsewhere It is get me leads performance which will gets dominated by performance Whereas programmatic is best working for very efficient branding. So, you know, Javed your own experience on this front You know, how do you see this on? Programmatic overall on on programmatic, you know because you yourself have, you know used programmatic So in terms of measurement So see I think I think not just measurement, you know in terms of our way and especially branding are why compared to what you do Otherwise, right? See, I think it's very important. Yes. So the thing is that performance is important But what is the definition of performance and I'm sorry, I said Javed. Sorry What's their name? So so yeah performance is important, but what's the definition of performance that I'm looking at What is the measurement matrix that I'm looking at that has to be set quite evidently before even we start the campaign or think of Rolling out the campaign because it has to be involved in the planning stage and the expectations internally has to be set accordingly Okay, so when we are using programmatic, okay, yes, it's it's certainly not as a business generation Creating the long funnel for us, you know, because like let's say he was telling there is it's it's not funnel But for us funnel works very important because finance is not which you just get up and say, okay It's not doesn't happen that way. We have to really groom right from a lead generation to a lead conversion There might be a seven days stat. There might be a 90 days stat. Okay So how do I keep in touch and meaningful touch? It cannot be always apply now apply now, right? So that's the whole conversion that really helps me with the proper capping. What next so for every remarketing We always think through three different alternatives If this is getting interacted then what this is not getting interacted after seven days Then what okay, and then third as a default. Okay, so I think this entire sequencing is beat in terms of video beat in terms of display Okay, it's it's very well evolved in terms of programmatic platforms that we have and that really helps in helping our channels. Yeah Essentially, your top of funnel is covered in place. You can And track as the consumer, you know till he converts you see just the intended So tracking tracking was telling you tracking is a very homegrown tool. Okay, we have to see the replications of it But can I build a very strong pipeline? Yes, absolutely. Yeah So just one point on your on the programmatic red We have always seen programmatic at the bottom of the funnel performance, etc. Right, but the richness of the data that you have I think it's it can be very beautifully used for your brand building as well Which I think we are not seeing it that way And I've seen brands starting to see it that way right for example if I run a one campaign for three months And if somebody asked me say business it's difficult, but it did much more for your brand It also is doing something else beyond that. I'm not denying ultimately. It's about business But I think the way to look at it is also can we use that beyond just performance marketing? Just one point here So, you know in programmatic now there is so much of innovation which is happening right rich media creatives landing page is all of it There was some way, you know, like a like maybe you know, like my colleague here is that could you know put a value to Let's say a display banner does X for the brand and it could be category wise learnings because I think what Sujay And Jai had said differently was Sujay is a impulse based category largely Whereas Jai there's a planned category as such right so hence the journey is differ But in case of this if there is any metric that you could possibly say that look this is what? Dynamic landing pages could actually value add to your brand. This is what a display ad could do This is what video with dynamism could do if there were certain, you know perspectives Into this then ROI could be a lot better conversations, you know, that could help us at least as marketers It could it could give us benchmarks to understand even pre-campaign So I think one of the reluctance to probably invest so much into innovation and rich media is exactly this That we don't have benchmarks. So that's something you could please help us with completely agree with you And we do a lot of campaigns for our clients and we do build this data out, but you're giving me a product idea So thanks a lot for that Yes, I think you did want to speak about the efficiencies You were able to build by investing in ad platforms and of course you actually give a number here You say saved 78 lakhs, you know, I think the only thing I think which I could say See we also have a impulse category product in the consumer space. So What we realized we could save is by reducing the number of steps that the consumer takes So if I could actually bring the entire consumer experience within where the consumer is whether it's on a blog website Whether it's on the news website if I could tell him the entire story there Get him to probably then, you know spend lesser time with me make a faster choice That's something which I think the programmatic platforms really helped me with and I think that's something that everybody should try We've done it some somewhere html is in the past Now if you know the entire consumer experience like the entire storytelling could come in lesser fewer steps Something which is like a big saving for us and that's what we realized another thanks You know now that we have just about four minutes left, you know Hearing each other over here You know what do you think we could or you know our marketers could do differently from what they've been doing so far You know any thoughts on that to differently or do better Okay, I'll go so so I think see as as we started right with saying the problem of plenty, okay So so so that is going to remain and there are going to be newer platforms, etc I think from from my point of view that couple of things that we that we are doing, okay is being in this Self-destruction mode, okay, and being in this beta mode all the time So what I mean by self-destruction if you if you see like the how the pandemic really Disrupted everything for us. So for us, there are some platforms which have always been like, you know a go-to platforms I don't want to name the platforms here But but what if I have to think differently and say that okay? These platforms are not going to be there for me anymore are they newer opportunity platforms that I could look at You know, so so rather than me getting You know swayed by those specific platforms because normally we just get comfortable with those platforms because they give you scale etc etc But but as a brand there are more opportunities outside, which we which we tend to a bit overlook at times I feel so I think we need to do that and the second thing is what I would I always remember what my ex-boss has Told me that Fail but fail cheap so I haven't forgotten that so I will keep testing but he always Okay, you want to try it try it but but fail cheap So I think that's something that I have always remember and that's it's it's it's good to keep testing I think that's that's how you will you will Uncover some of the platforms which you never tested You quickly add two points. So, you know, definitely invest a lot in your data strategy Which will help you, you know to Have your first party data created and Then enriched it and with that develop your consumer understanding and also take your measurement to the next level, right? So have a complete data strategy that is very very critical It's it's not new, but I think really the time has come that it has to be done. There is no other choice Second I would say is that you know, there are so many platforms obviously coming in But I think the biggest disruptor of this decade which we feel is connected TV because TV has always been the big daddy in the media and TV is going digital So look at that, you know channel very very strongly very and of course, you know You don't have to jump into it right away But this is this is the biggest change and you need to be involved and you need to know what is coming I'll just add a couple of things because I concur a lot of points So one is obviously the data strategy, which is going to be critical for everyone measurement, which was another thing and I think Objective-setting because we as marketer we need to be very clear in terms of what is the objective that we are trying to achieve From the campaign and the platform because if we are clear on that Measurements will do wonders for us because then we know what we have tested what we have learned So so these are the three key things and obviously keep on exploring new platforms Just one one thing in my wish list, please whoever is sitting in the audience if in case you have solutions also Please do find solutions for influencer marketing. How do we connect the dots? It's something that we all struggle with The faster we get there I think it'll be better for all the content creators also for marketers also So please do work on this if in case whoever is reaching out Okay, so I think differently come for exchange for media platforms listen to sharp brains and go and implement Okay, that's on like a side, but yeah, I think there's nothing different right? It's marketing is at its core Okay, we have to keep our eyes and why is open right? What's the new platform? Every organization will have its platform set. It will not change overnight What's new you should have a 10% and I think we were discussing with a fraud and bots is a big time Be aware of it and invest five to six percent of your media budgets on fraud awareness tools Be it a vulnerability tool or beat your ad camp in frauds the amount of massive The budgets that you'd save and is this humongous So yeah, thanks so much. I I was just about to say that because I was waiting for her to say it Yeah, and absolutely I think we can just close with just one thing is that we should in you mentioned five to six Percent yes, that's what it costs, but it builds so much of efficiency your ROI for targeting and you know building your own Audience pools. There's so many advantages of Using tools and one should start looking at technologies today and start investing in them I hope everybody enjoyed this session and found it very useful. Thank you so much all of you for these great insights that All of you have shared. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much