 What's going on everyone we're back with another episode of the after-hours podcast today We have a very special guest and very much everybody's been asking for to come on. We have Oren Who is one of the moderators at MIC and he's one of the rare primarily like trades mostly large caps Which is pretty cool So everybody always thinks that my sees only shorting small caps or longing, but we have a nice large cap room So Oren, thank you for coming on women Absolutely, so glad to be here with you guys. It's been long overdue Yeah, for sure for sure So what's so if you could run yourself through introduce yourself kind of talk a little bit about your trading and how you found MIC Absolutely. Yeah, so I grew up in the New England area go patriots and Ended up moving out to the West Coast for college. I went to Cal Poly San Luis Obispo studied business there and I concentrated in in computer information systems So it's the data side of business essentially So I'm really into data analytics and that's what I do now as a full-time career So trading I just do part-time, but for my full-time career. I work for the Los Angeles Metro so some public transit agency here in LA yeah and Essentially, I I use all of the data we collect and do analysis on it So actually a lot of my trading Does revolve around this, you know looking at the charts and doing the analysis and and reading into the fundamentals That's that's what got me first interested in trading like even though I studied business in college I was not at all interested in finance or accounting or I really stock trading at all. I I didn't Really start diving into stock trading until Robin Hood came out actually Yeah, so I can thank Robin Hood for getting me into trading because yeah before that, you know, it's just like Throw stuff in the 401k or you know, whatever retirement funds by some ETFs. Yeah Yeah, so I think what like 2014 Yep Robin Hood, you know, I saw a free stock trading. I might as well just hop on I'd do a little bit of swing trading and it's been investing like by AMD But just essentially buying companies. I knew To moderate success here and there. Yeah, so probably by the end of that. I was how old are you at this point? At that point. I was 2425 okay, so just out of college really. Yeah, and I just turned 30 this year But I didn't really think fan. Yeah, I didn't really dive Deep into trading and be like hey, this is actually a great way to make a supplemental income Probably till 2019 end of 2019 At that point, you know, I've been working for Metro for a while and I'm like I want some sort of side gig You know, I want multiple streams of income. Yeah, that's how you build wealth and You can't do it just doing a nine to five. So I was looking at alternatives like working on the side or You know trying trying all these different side hustles and then I just kind of put it all together I'm like well, you know, even though I haven't been that successful Casually doing this trading on Robin hood Clearly tons of people are very successful and I saw that on Twitter, you know I started following people on Twitter to get ideas Yeah, and I started seeing the success people were having You know, obviously some of it's fake but a lot of it's real and I you know, I found MIC I found Alex and bow and Pretty much like a lot of people and I might see it from their tweets Is how I heard about it. Oh, that's cool. It is cool. Yeah And so then I started diving in the YouTube videos and I just really liked that a lot of what MIC was teaching Was about like trader psychology. Yeah, I'm like that that was my biggest issue and I recognize it I'm like I'm I get too emotional like starts to against me. I sell, you know, I buy high I sell low. I'm chasing all of the things that You learn not to do once you start getting an education. Of course, do you say that? Oh, sorry Would you say that like everything you're doing is like like did you have like a certain strategy or were you just kind of like Diving in and just like longing random things and yeah, and so were you like like like how do you like Because this is what I'm always like kind of wondering when people start It's like what type of stocks did you kind of like to buy or like how would you even find out about a stock or like a Particular ticker name because like I always find that super interesting because you know I'm looking at like maybe like a long swing strategy just to have in my back pocket and stuff and You know, I always wonder like where does this, you know volume come from of all these people like AMC and GME and those things that catch on So I was just kind of wondering like what was your process towards kind of finding a stock? Yeah, for me, I would say I was mostly focused on stocks. I knew Your big tech companies I wasn't really into like finding the small caps and yeah and trying to you know Take a stock from $2 to $20 like I was buying the names. You you're familiar with Apple AMD Tesla But like I said, it wasn't I Was falling into the traps of FOMO, you know I would see the stock rallying over multiple days and then buy into it and then not have the patience to hold through the drawdown Or not have a stop-loss and re-enter So you were always doing large caps pretty always doing large cap. Yeah, so I like that Yeah, so I guess that was part of my initial hesitancy to join MIC was something okay These guys are mostly focused on small cap But the more I got the content and I'm like It's all it's it doesn't matter small cap or large cap. It's the process. It's the principles and the rules Right and understanding how to control your emotions while trading. So that's what what convinced me I'm like, okay I need to I need to commit to learning if I really want to be successful in this and actually make it Yeah side gig or a second stream of income, of course, so that's 2019, right? So you found MIC and 2019 yeah, cool. So and at that point, I guess what was your Turning point for success and how did you then how did you find your niche and then what was your turning point for success? yeah, so that was 2020 2020 was a really big year in terms of my trading career because A lot happened, you know, we all are very aware of the COVID crash Yeah, and I got caught in it in a good way and a bad way. So I You know at this point I had joined MIC but I wasn't really Taking advantage of it yet. Yeah, so I was one of those people who had like signed up for a membership started watching some videos but I was still pretty much trading on my own and just Lurking on the chat reading it getting ideas Reading from the large cap room But not really committing to learning how to trade and learning the process. So At that point, I was also starting to dive into options. So I was just really interested in how options worked just kind of playing with them here and there and then By chance, I had bought some puts on the market I've been following COVID really closely. So by by January, I'm like, okay I kind of think this is not your typical, you know virus from China scare It seems like something more serious is coming out So I was already starting to be a little cautious in January and then the market kept ripping ripping ripping and kind of by sheer luck I bought the top with spy puts Yeah, and then the market collapses So in a week, I make 40k off like holy shit $3,000 position. Yeah, that's insane insane, you know without totally understanding what's going on like Just learning options like, you know, and I got this like crazy excitement like I just banked so much And I'm like, but this thing is gonna keep crashing and it's like the worst You know the say the most experienced traders say Like the worst thing that can happen to you is making a lot by luck Yeah, because you build these horrible habits and you build this this false sense of confidence So then I'm just gunslinging options overnight You know trying to do swing trades trying to catch these big moves during like the most volatile period in the market Which is not easy to trade obviously And I lost that 40k within like a month. Yep And at that point I was like I'm paying for M. I see I need to learn I need to take advantage of this I Think bow came on one night and he was like, you know, I'm gonna be giving out like lifetime memberships He may have had a few beers or something So he was giving out looks like super good deal on the lifetime membership. I was like, boom. I bought it I'm joining in Actually remember this night that he was hammered. He was just throwing lifetime memberships out the window. He's like Yeah, he's like, you know, the first five people or whatever, you know that message me so I Was committed to learning at that point because I'm like the emotional trauma of that high to that low It made me recognize that okay, I need to start working to be consistent Yeah, and at that point I didn't know my niche, you know, like I didn't know if I wanted I knew I wanted to do large cap because I just have always been more interested in large caps of From even my earlier days of trading. Yeah And I liked options too. So I would I knew I was committed to that But it was really like don't want to be a day trader swing trader And I think the volatility of that time period made me start leaning to towards being a day trader. I Thought okay, you know, MIC is a little bit more specialized in day trading I Joe's really successful of it We have a lot of people in the large cap room that are successful in trading both equity and the options for for large cap So I really started committing to doing that And I did it from about I'd say April 2020 until About November, maybe maybe October November And I was about break-even, you know In my mind I Actually hadn't just lost that 40k. I lost a little more. I lost another 10k on top of that. All right. So now in my mind, I'm like I need to Make back this money, right? And I think that pressure and like trying to learn how to day trade Having that pressure on and like that feeling like I need to make this money back Is really negative towards your trading and your emotion wait. It's a way. Yeah And so I think that kind of hampered my day trading Because I was like over sizing I was getting emotional all of the the flaws of a day trader Yeah, and oversized in large caps dude, you can find yourself like down big I mean, I I've done it before Like even trading like Tesla and stuff or like you just get a little too big too quick and you're like holy shit I'm down a lot of money Right. Yeah Yeah, so so the first like three months of that were probably more negative You know, I was still digging the hole a little bit deeper not not bad But enough that it was like really hurting my morale and my confidence I'm like, I don't know if I'm ever gonna get the hang of this and Then some I started to like get back up. So I was getting like break even months. Yeah But then after about doing that for half a year, I was like, I just don't think day trading fits my personality And I wanted to start focusing back on swing trading, which is what I was doing prior to M. I see And I'm like I can take the the lessons that I'm learning from M. I see from the process from controlling your emotions and Not only that but also like the technical analysis so many things that apply to day trading also apply to swing trading being patient being patient Waiting for your lions, you know, all of that applies and In my mind, I'm like I'm getting stressed out doing day trading. So I'm gonna I'm gonna pivot at this point and And that pivot was really when I became Consistently profitable because I'm like, okay now I found my niche and I pretty quickly felt right And cool. Yeah, and I just started diving deeper into date into swing trading and I've been doing that since So almost a year of I'd say like 95% swing trading Well, yeah, how long are your swings on average? Are you like a one day multiple day? Like how kind of time frames do you look for a pretty good mix? So Yeah, sometimes they're just overnight Other times I've been holding for weeks months a few I've almost held a year. So Wow I haven't held a stock more than like five minutes, bro. Yeah, I know I would say a majority though a majority are under three months Yeah, it's so good though. Yeah, so you kind of You know, I guess you had that insane, you know draw down and then, you know Just your break even for a bit and then you kind of committed and then You know now you're on that kind of path on like swing trading and stuff like that Do you have any like kind of like process advice someone who's trying to learn? Like, you know, just like you are like, do you have any like tips to get started? Like how'd you start? Like what were things do you think that made you consistent and you know Any process tips for anyone who's kind of new and is kind of looking to get involved in that type of, you know market as well Yeah, absolutely. That's a great question And I think so much of it Goes back to your personality and the cliche that everyone is saying like find your niche find your niche and Yeah, it's I think when people are saying that to you and you don't really know what it is yet It's kind of frustrating. I don't know what my niche is like. Yeah, like what does that even mean really? but once you like Finally find that spot and are starting to be profitable and you just feel more calm In your trading like everyone is personality matches a different type of trading Yeah, and that's really what you're finding your niche is is just finding the type of trading that fits your personality So I would say When you're first starting it is good to go between multiple things if you don't really know right away you know, check out the small caps check out shorting longing large cap options, but just keep your size small and And make sure you're focusing on learning first instead of diving in headfirst because otherwise you're gonna end up blowing up an account And learning bad habits. So take the time to try different things but don't Don't oversize into Your positions while you're learning and don't try to do multiple things at once like a lot of people I know in MIC who are still looking for consistency come and chat me and they're like Hey, you know, I'm trying to get into swing trading But right now I'm shorting small caps And I'm like, that's great that you want to get into swing trading But trying to do both at the same time is really difficult. You know, each one takes a lot of focus and energy So trying to do trying to spread yourself too thin is a pretty good way to guarantee you're gonna be like frustrated stressed out and probably not trading well Like that now do you recommend like when you're new like this like a lot of people ask the large cap guys What do you recommend for like data tracking or spreadsheets? Do you even recommend people and they're new do that? Is it too much? Is it overwhelming and like kind of what do you do for it? Yeah, I think it's a little bit Overboard to go like deep into the data tracking Obviously, I love data and I think it's especially in trading where so much of what we do looking at the charts is all it's all based off data It's just visualizations of data Yeah, but it's so easy to overload yourself with that and I think keep it simple, right? Just keep it simple people often ask me like how do you find what tickers you're trading? I'm like, I'm just trading the big names that we all talk about and what you know about Snapchat Twitter Facebook like all the social media all the tech companies You know just look at the S&P 500 lists and those are the stocks. I'm trading really. I'm not I'm not going out and searching for the unknown stock the holy grail That's gonna go from like ten dollars to three hundred dollars Even though I did almost catch GME I remember the story. Yeah, it's like crazy It's hilarious and I guess I mean that's cool though I mean, I think a lot of people they struggle with the concept of data like I'm my brain isn't wired that way And I think it's cool for people to know that you know, there's both there's two times two sides of it You know if you want to track or two spreadsheets are charting like Everyone has their their way of a backtesting and it's okay And I think that's cool that you are someone who is kind of data-driven and whatnot and I'm asked I'm actually just really why I keep blanking out is because Joe Kelly was just texting me So he has his large cap webinar tonight, which um, which we can't be on the zoom for him, but but It's okay, but we got like five minutes and I guess before we kind of wrap it up what what would be The most important small piece of advice I know you gave a good a good little session there on like sizing and focusing then but What is one thing you wish as a new trader you cut someone told you and you think that probably would have cut your learning curve like in half Yeah, that's a good question. It's a tough one. It is a Yeah, I Mean the biggest thing. Yeah The biggest thing is just take your time you know, we're we're in this for a Hopefully a long time not a You know, so it's not a get rich quick type of scheme Take your time to learn and and this is what everyone preaches and it's like the same thing with everything in life You can't just jump in and assume that you're gonna be great You know, like sure you can get lucky and buy and happen to have bought some crazy options and got rich quick But for every person that does that so many countless more lose all their money essentially like gambling So just start all start small you don't need to necessarily paper trade because I think paper trading is a Little it takes away the emotional aspect of it but just use a size that you're comfortable with because so many people View trading is like this way to make money to To start paying rent to start buying all these nice things. It's like don't quit your job You know view trading as a way first of all just look at it as a Learning process, you know, like, okay, I'm gonna get educated in trading and the stock market and finance Yeah, and then I'm going to incrementally start Building it as like a business like I'm gonna start start small You know, I might incur some losses in the beginning, but I'll learn how to do the business better And then by the time I start adding more capital I'll be winning more often and then all of a sudden you're you know, your account is over PDT and You're able to day trade you're able to do more strategies and have more positions So just start small and build up start small and build up. I love that man I love that. I think that's really solid awesome advice, especially for anyone trying to get into trading in general but especially large caps because it can be super overwhelming but I hate I hate having to wrap these things up short and Joe said he's gonna fire us both But I can always be a number two. Yeah, well, that's I'm sad Well, we'd love to have you back on doing like I know a lot of members would love to hear about large cap strategy and like just overall Market sentiment and stuff. So we really do appreciate you coming on and would love to get you back on for sure Yeah, absolutely guys. Yeah, there's a lot of fun and we'll do it again. Awesome. Well, thank you again. All right Have a good night. Okay. Bye everybody. You too, buddy