 The summit of the BRICS leaders which took place last week was one of the most significant ones in the history of the organization, in fact. Just a few months ago, people were talking about whether, you know, BRICS had any relevance at all, especially considering the fact that India has been moving much closer to the United States. However, in the aftermath of the Ukraine war, the stance taken by many of these powerful countries, India, Russia, Brazil, South Africa, had actually been in some amount of alignment. We'll be talking about all this and the significance of BRICS itself in this episode of Mapping Fault Lines. We're joined by Prabir Purkayasar. Prabir, so an interesting meeting, of course, happening after the war in Ukraine. We've seen that India has taken a very strong stance during the course of this war. We've seen that South Africa, for instance, taking a very powerful stance, both these countries refusing to go the U.S. way of condemning Russia in any sense. These countries, during the summit itself, released a joint declaration in which, again, there was a brief reference to the war itself, but they had some very measured comments to make. So this has led to a lot of discussion about what is the relevance of BRICS in today's context. So would you want to maybe talk about that first? As we know from the beginning, while countries have voted in the United Nations against the war itself by saying that it was an invasion, but when it came to implementing the sanctions, they backed off. Of course, India abstained and so did a couple of other countries, China and I think opposed the declaration itself. But overall terms, most countries who even went with the United States on the question of Russia being talked about as having invaded Ukraine, declared war and so on, did not impose sanctions. In fact, the sanctions were imposed only by a handful of countries. And really, if you leave out the small countries, some of the major powers in Western Europe and the United States, Canada and Australia, what has been called as the white colonial and the settler colonial powers. So this was really the core of the sanctioning regimes. And in fact, the only others you can talk about are Eastern European recent allies of the NATO, which are very small and Japan. Japan, if you remember, the colonial period was considered a honorary white country by South Africa, for instance, which had apathy. And Japanese, therefore, were accepted as whites over there. So in that sense, it is an anomaly that it had pretensions of being a colonial power in the same model as the settler colonial powers in Southeast Asia, East Asia. But nevertheless, it only qualifies as an honorary white. That's right. But yes, you are completely right. Japan is the only other entry in that club. But if you look at the rest of them, they said, OK, we may not be very happy about the war, but we are not going to sanction Russia and continue on this path of sanctions, whoever the United States and the West disagrees with. And that as an instrument of foreign policy and also of economic policy now has become a problem for very many countries. See, Russia is not a small country. It is a large economic power. And therefore, if you cut off relations with it as economic relations with it, as the West has been declaring or demanding, it means huge consequences for the world in general. And even those who have not sanctioned Russia are finding it difficult to trade with it because of the fact that the financial world is still controlled by the United States and which allies in Europe. The banking system functions largely to the Swiss system, which from which the Russian banks have been thrown out. And of course, the threat if we use dollar or euro, then you come under their financial sanctions. All of this has made it much more difficult, except for big economies like India, who have tried to work out a bilateral relationship with Russia. As you know, India is importing large amounts of oil at the moment. Of course, India used to import large amounts of oil for Iran and Russia earlier. It has started importing much more from the United States only in recent years. So if we take all of that out, is there a space today, which is what we've been discussing, for an alternative financial structure and a trading structure. And here Bricksburg becomes important. Bricks is about 40% of the world's population, 25% of the GDP of the world. And I think about 16% to 17% of the world's trade. So economically, it has a power which is not insignificant. And particularly, if we talk about alternative ways of trading, and this is something which has come up in this big Bricks summit, that are there alternative financial structures we can explore. And a collaborative financial structure, though directly, they haven't said anything, it does appear that they are exploring the possibility of trading using alternative mechanisms. And therefore the Bricks structure, the financial structure of the Bricks, can it accommodate that? And that is a question that is still open. The second part of it is that if you look at what's happening today in different parts of the world, then Latin America has become, of course, much more important. Left has won in Colombia and with possibly Brazil, Bolsonaro losing to Lula if that happens, the military does not intervene if that happens. Then you have a powerful player of the original Bricks, Brazil, coming back into its own. And if, for instance, other players in Latin America join them, then you get a sudden infusion of new blood, shall we say, into Bricks again. China's intention is also very clear. They have Central Asia in mind. The invitees are from Central Asia, and also Southeast Asia in mind. They are, again, invitees from these two places. Only Argentina was the invitee from Latin America. So given that, I think, very interesting times. Of course, there are a couple of entries, invitations to Africa as well. But I think what it needs is South Africa to play a role if it wants to be an African power, and certainly Brazil to play a role. If that happens, the possibility of Bricks architecture being used for global financial alternative to the dollar euro regime, I think that becomes possible. And Bricks, more than Shanghai Cooperation Organization, SEO, I think can play a much bigger role in international finance and trading changes that might occur, which will be the interest of all these countries. Iran, for instance, was invited. So that's obviously another big player who can come in. So all of this, I think, are shaping up in a way which would be difficult to predict at this moment. But I think what we have been seeing after the Ukraine, what we have been talking about, is there a possibility of an alternative financial structure of the world and a trading structure, alternative trading structure of the world in which dollar is no longer the pre-eminent currency and US is no longer the sole hegemonic power. Can that happen? I think the Bricks is a possibility. In this context, of course, a lot of attention being paid, especially to India, because of India's stances over the past few years. We know that India is enthusiastically a part of the Quad. We know that, in fact, it is also going to engage in what is known as the I2U2 with Israel, the United Arab Emirates, and the US. So in this context, how do we sort of see India's, the possibilities before India, with these two very divergent tracks is, the US led track on one hand and there's Bricks on the other hand, which it has always been a member of. You know, the Indian state under this present government, the Modi government does not see non-alignment as a anti-colonial exercise. It sees non-alignment the way the United States and others have played it. That's trying to play two sides of the street. Now, that was the original, their interpretation of non-alignment. That's an unprincipled country trying to bargain on both sides. While the deeper issue of it being essentially an anti-colonial exercise in foreign policy was not seen at all. Now, the Indian government seems to be taking up the playing on two sides of the street as its foreign policy. It has at least the positive element of not aligning completely the United States, which today is a weakening hegemon, financially, economically, brings much less to the world than other countries do, at least for the future, it's very clear that China is going to displace it quickly as the world's largest economic power. It's not already so in what is called the PPP terms. That is already a bigger GDP than the United States. But if we leave all of it out, India has at least done one thing. It has not put all its money into the quad, partly because once in the United States made the AUK-US alliance, Australia, United Kingdom and the United States, it became very clear that India was not looked upon as a key player in the Pacific, what is called the Indo-Pacific. And that is because Southeast Asia, this we have been discussing, if Southeast Asia is in play, and that is really where the new economic power is being born today in the world, Southeast Asia. Then Australia becomes much more important than India does, even though India may claim it has historical relationship with Southeast Asia and so on. But honestly speaking, militarily, and that's what the United States really wants, militarily it is Japan and Australia, that is important to it. So India doesn't really figure into this picture. And if India comes into play, it's only when it is looked upon as a counter to China or the Himalayas. And as everybody knows, the United States is not in play in the Himalayas and therefore thinking that that is a major counter to China and the Himalayas is not, I don't think geostrategically, anybody believes in that, including the government of India, it's just a play to say we are also there. Given that, I think what India is beginning to realize is that its economic interests do not lie in the United States anymore or at least it doesn't lie in any major sense of the United States. It has to play an independent hand or play a hand in which it plays, and I really mean plays, with other emerging economies. And Southeast Asia would be a very important one. China is of course another important one. West Asia is an important one. But of course Latin America is distant from us. So economically trade terms, it's not so important. But Africa is much closer. So I think this sense, a larger historical geostrategic sense is beginning to dawn on the Indian side. And more importantly, if you look at the oil imports for instance, you will see that it is, the most of the imports have come to essentially Reliance's town on the Reliance's port, which means Ammanis or Reliance is the biggest importer of Russian crude. It's also selling some of that refined crude, selling it as refined products to others. So given that, it is also the Indian big capital, which realizes that putting all your eggs in the American basket is not a good idea. Look at the other big one, Adani for instance. It's a big importer of coal. In fact, the largest importer of coal in India is trader of coal, is actually Adani. So if we look at the larger geostrategic picture, the Indian bourgeoisie also realizes that putting all its financial eggs or economic eggs in the American basket is not a good idea. And it has other interests in the world. And I think that is also shaping India's larger geostrategic understanding, how to play with Russia, how to play with the United States. And don't forget, China, if not the biggest trade partner of India, is still very close to the United States, is being the second biggest. And again, every year this position seems to change between China and the United States. So it is at least as big, almost as big if not bigger than the United States. So given all of that, I think the Indian state has realized that going by its previous fascination because the United States is not a very good idea anymore. So we have to play with all. And BRICS provides a safe platform at the moment, more than Shanghai Cooperation does, which is more Asian. And China's heft in that is certainly much larger than India's. And I think this is the reason that BRICS has become important both for Asia, Latin America, as well as Africa. And this is after all three fourths of the world, if not more. Thank you so much, Prabir. We'll be tracking similar issues in future episodes of Mapping Fortlines. Until then, keep watching NewsClick.