 You know that Jesus is in you, the hope of glory, and this is hope today, and we're hoping to see the glory of God today too. In our lives, in your lives, as we talk about the things of God and share with you, I'm Tom Hollis, I'm here with Anna Frye, and it's a wonderful Friday with Anna Frye. Ah, sure. And tell us about our guests. Well, it is a wonderful Friday, although it's rainy here in Pittsburgh, and we want to warm you up with the love of God today, and we get to talk about intimacy with our Lord. So if you desire a relationship with God that is more alive and a faith that is unshakable, even in the hardest times, then stick around for our guests, Stephen and Renee Springer. Their new book is called The Fire of Perfect Love, and they're ready to inspire your heart with the fiery love of God. Woo! I love it. It's gonna be good. The whole idea of God's love being poured, King James says shed a broad in our heart, where his love is just poured on us. I think it's gonna be a great conversation. Right, I think about how, one of my favorite quotes, and I wish I had it in front of me, is Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., and he talks about how darkness will never drive out darkness, but light drives out darkness, and he talks about how hate will never drive out hate. It is love that drives out hate and darkness, and we are living in a time where we're seeing so much of that in our earth, and as children of God, with the power of the Holy Spirit in us, the fire of God in us, we can really set this world on fire. I love that. I love that love is our message, and that's what we bring. I just wanna say something real quick. We're gonna go to slump the hosts in just a second, but today is my 26th anniversary of working here at Cornerstone Television. I can't believe it. I was three years old when I started. I've been here a while, and it's been a great ride. Congratulations, happy anniversary. Thank you, thank you. I never expected that 26 years later, be sitting here hosting a show with Anna Frye, but it is a wonderful thing at what God has done, and I'm glad to be able to come in and share the word of God with you on a daily basis. Right now, we're gonna see if we can stump this veteran host here on Stump the Host. Okay, we have not seen these. Please play along with us, and we'll see if our producers can stump us. So here's the first one. True or false? John the Baptist wore clothes made of goat hair. I feel like it wasn't a goat. It was some kind of animal hair, but it- What was it? I feel like it was camel, but I don't know, that could be completely wrong. I'm gonna say, I agree with you. I'm gonna say false. All right, camel hair. Yes, well, we're glad that John the Baptist, he must have been quite the trendsetter. All right, here's question number two. How many chapters are there in Revelation? 22, there's 22 chapters in Revelation. Yeah, all right, all right. Come on, Dave, you know numbers in me. I'm gonna be all right with the numbers. All right, so where did Peter stay during his ministry in Joppa? This is, where did Peter stay in his ministry in Joppa? I was at Lydia's house. I was gonna say, it was in the home of a certain woman. Lydia sounds right. Let's go with Lydia. You're too confident. We should have- We should have brought in our lifeline. I know, we should have brought our guests in. Well, thank you for playing along. And, you know, people talk to us about this segment every time they see me at church or something. They like the segment. So thanks for playing along with us. Yes, it is, it's always a good time. Well, our guest today, Stephen and Renee Springer, our husband wife team, ready to ignite a fire and passion for the Lord within the hearts of believers. They join us to share about the fire of perfect love and how we can have intimacy with God for a life of passion, purpose and unshakable faith. So Stephen and Renee, welcome to Hope Today. Thank you so much. Really an honor to be here today too. It's good. Well, we're excited to start digging into this, but I want to start with your personal testimonies. Both of you were in the modeling industry that's where you met and each of you encountered God in separate parts of the world, but at the same time, and I want to know how Jesus began to encounter your heart and bring you out of that industry. Well, I'm amazed at how God pursues people. I think that's one of the most beautiful facets of God's heart. When we were far from Him, He pursued us. So He's a pursuing God. And for us, He pursued us outside of a church. He pursued us right where we're at in the modeling industry, going after all the things that we think satisfy us, that bring us peace, that bring us a sense of purpose, but we were empty. And so we were really searching because we had gone after fame, fortune, all those things that you think are going to make you happy and fulfilled and it was empty. We got to the bottom of it. And we're like, this is empty. What are we missing? And that brought us right to Jesus, which was amazing. We both had an encounter with Him. Yeah. And I think with that whole thing is that, we were both on a sincere quest. Because again, we're in the party scene in Hollywood and partying with the Hsu and the Hollywood Zoo. And the reality is that we try to average ourselves and the reality is that we try everything, trying to fill a hole that only Jesus could fill. And so there really was this honest and sincere quest that we were both on. And I remember I was actually on a modeling contract in Europe and I was in Barcelona. We were doing fashion shows and I was moving on to Madrid the next week, but the castings had got done early that day. And I thought, you know, I'm just going to go check out Barcelona while I'm here. And I remember as I turned down this one street and there's this large Catholic cathedral across the street. And I heard this voice, go inside the church. And I thought, huh, yeah, I can go over there. And honestly, I was on a sincere quest really just trying to find some answers. I remember as I went in that room, in that church, you know, in many, many cathedrals these days are more like museums. And as I went out just admiring just the artwork, the paintings, the statues of Jesus and His disciples. And I was just kind of just pondering things. And I remember as I went down to this one area, there was a small chapel off to the side of the main sanctuary area. And I could hear a Catholic mask going on. Oh, I could hear the chanting going out there. I'm going to go check this out. So I went down there and there was a priest and three little old ladies sitting in this chapel having an afternoon mass, I guess. And I just sat down going, what is life about? And all of a sudden I began to feel just this overwhelming sense of peace just begin to flood me. And I remember even my eyes begin to tear up. And I'm like, why am I feeling this? And yet honestly, it's because I had a heart that was sincerely seeking Him. And so, and then moments later, this is the cool thing, is that I was staring at the cross of Christ up in front of the church. And as I looked and gazed upon it, all of a sudden Jesus, who was inanimate at the time, all of a sudden lifts his head and he goes, Steven, I am what you're looking for. It's my love. It's my love. Wow, I can't even imagine what that must have been like to experience Jesus in that way. And now you both have chosen to use fire as the central image for your book. Why use fire? We are revealed in the fire. God loves to reveal Himself in and through us. And so fire reveals the gold inside of each one of us. It's a refining fire. It's a fire of passion and love. And it reveals. And so the more we learn to just yield to that flame, that flame, the purpose of that flame is to make us one with Him, one heart and one flame. And so the more we understand that, the more we can cooperate when we know the heart of God, that His heart is always to reveal who He is and who we are, not condemn us, not to shine, He shines light on us to bring freedom and wholeness and beauty. You know, and I think there's a scripture actually in Luke 12, verse 49, and it's interesting the way that the passion translation says it, because to me, really, that's part of this demystifying this sense of fire because often people think, is this hell's fire? No, it's heaven's fire. And so here's what it says, I like this. I have come to set the earth on fire and oh, how I wished it was already ablaze with fiery passion for God. And to me, that's what it's about. It's about a heart being unlocked and ignited with this perfect love that comes from the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Immersed. Yeah, I mean, that is awesome to think of the fire of His love. I love that illustration. Let me ask you about something. I've noticed this and I've noticed it in my own life and even in many mature Christians' life and especially when there's new people that are coming into the church like we see a lot right now, we can have a distorted image of God from things that we've had the world, the flesh and the devil have kind of put, kind of messing up the real view of who God is. What do you see as God correcting that of revealing Himself as He really is? How does that happen in your own life? Well, we've had many encounters and I think it's really revealing the fullness. I think what God wants to reveal the fullness, sometimes we box God in, which also boxes us in. We need to see Him in all His fullness and be able to get outside of ourselves with that. So otherwise we're creating God in our own image and we don't wanna do that. We wanna see Him as He is so we reflect Him because we're created and has an image so we need to see Him as He is and then receive that from Him and become that. We call it behold, receive, become and release and then release that love and that image to the world around us. You don't, I think that that's the beauty of it too is that when we understand what Jesus was saying, love God with everything, your complete being, all that you are and then love your neighbor as yourself. And I think many times we miss actually, there's actually three components even to that. It's love God, love yourself so you can love your neighbor. And I think that too often even us as believers, and I see it so often when we travel all over the planet is just the unworthiness and the self-hatred that I find in the church. And part of it is that we haven't grasped that God really is love. And I think in many times we think love is an emotion when the reality is love as a person and that when you encounter the face of that, of those beautiful fiery eyes that just elude and just bring forth just this glory and grace when we see Him and we're standing face to face and that's something that we can stand face to face of them right now is that even David said in Psalm 27, you said, Lord, seek my face. And I said, I'm gonna seek your face. And I think that if we find ourselves unlocked from all of the things that would wanna hold us, those hindrances that keep us from actually experiencing and encountering His perfect love, we begin to see Him as He really is. He is love, God is love. Again, it's not an emotion, it's not a feeling, it's who He is. Yeah, I love that so much. Can you speak a little bit more into that about the difference between biblical love and worldly love? Well, you know, I like how it says actually, and it's part of, you know, even kind of our tagline for our book, but in 1st John chapter four, verse 18 says, there is no fear in love. Perfect love casts out fear because fear involves torment, but He who fears has not been made perfect in love. And I think that that's part of it is that we often fear the Lord in a wrong way. So the fear of the Lord is a wonderful thing. We know that, I mean, time and time again, it's the beginning of wisdom, it's the beginning of knowledge, but with it too, it's clean, it's pure. But to me, it's an honor, reverence, not like, I'm afraid, you know, and there's been that spirit that's been cast over this planet here in the last three years. And I think that that's part of why we're gonna see a true just fear and faith and you're gonna see love, perfect love and just uprooting those things that actually keep us. And I think that that's really the dimension is that God wants to bring us into an encounter with His fiery perfect love because what it does is it removes all of those things that the enemy has thrown at us. It's about torment, it's about being afraid, it's about, oh, am I gonna make it to heaven or not? Well, all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved and see, that's His whole heart as He loved the whole world so much that none should perish. And I think, again, when we become demonstrators of that perfect love and we allow that love and that light to shine in and through us and even let your show, you know, hope today, again, Christ in us, the hope of glory. And I think that the more that we understand who actually resides inside of us the moment we confess Him, the reality of that perfect love just gets unlocked so we can be the radiance of Christ in the midst of darkness, in the midst of trials and tribulations that we see around us every day. And really, worldly love leaves us in lack. And, you know, like Jesus said, I came to give you a living water that you would not thirst anymore, that there's living water available and worldly love leads us, you know, thirsty. It doesn't satisfy, we can never get enough. But in Jesus, we get, you know, when we taste and see that He is good and He fulfills us, it's a living water that just keeps filling us. It just keeps filling us. So it's very different. So it's very good. And once you taste of that, you know, it's like, once you get a hold of that, the things of the world just don't, it doesn't take, it's like you're settling for scraps. When God says, I have a banqueting table. The world, what the world offers is nothing. It's like scraps. So we have a banqueting table of His love that we can feast at any time. It's so good. I wanna ask you about that though. Tell me how, how do I gaze upon the Lord? You talk about continually gazing on Him. What's that mean exactly? And when we do that, and we practice that, what difference change does it make in us? You know, I think really it's a simple posturing of heart to make Him our pursuit and our goal. And, you know, that can come in different ways. It's in that time where we're praying and just seeking His face. And what does that mean to seek His face? You know, I like even how it says that, you know, Moses spoke to God face to face with a man. And that word face to face actually means mouth to mouth. That means there was breath to breath that brings life. And that when we encounter God just in that time where we seek His face and we make His face just the key ingredient of everything that we're going after, there's this breath of heaven that begins to rejuvenate and bring life. Now a way that can happen is getting in the scriptures and just meditating upon Him, feasting upon His word and allowing His word to inform our heart that even when we may not comprehend it here is that say Holy Spirit would you come and bring the spirit of wisdom and revelation that would unlock the dimensions that I can know Jesus in a more deeper way. And I think that's part of it too is we invite God into the whole seeking process because it really does. It takes God to love God. And if we don't invite Him in the process sometimes we get left darkened and discouraged. And God wants to bring us into the light of His love into the light of His confidence so that everything again that hinders us from seeing and perceiving who we really is gets removed. So all of a sudden it's a simple place where we just quiet ourselves in His presence. And even right now I just even declare that your presence would come to each person that's watching Lord that it would become so simple because our relationship with you Jesus is simple. Religious complications, religion complicates things but Jesus your perfect love just simplifies everything. I just asked now you would just come and do that. Amen. I wanna make sure that we talk about your vision that God gave you for revival and for the next generation. Tell us a little bit about that. You know, I think, you know we've seen many awakenings over the years and revivals that have broke out. And I'm a student of revival history and it ignites my heart that when I read, you know the stories of old and just what God didn't when He moved. And to me it's always like do it again God do it again let this be the time in the hour, you know but there really is a dimension of awakening that's being released. And I think more than anything is that the awakening that is at hand is an awakening to His fiery love. You know, there was the holiness movement there was the healing movement there was all of these different things that happened over the centuries but I believe that this move of the spirit that we are now entered into I believe we've already crossed the threshold we're about to see the greater things the greater glory and outpouring of His love, grace and power but to say that I believe this move of the spirit will be marked by love and I believe we're in the final crescendo awakening that the planets are ever gonna see and you know whether it's five, 10 or a hundred years to me I'm not concerned about that to me I'm just gonna go after Him and my heart is that I want to ignite a generation to see the same thing that I've encountered with this beautiful fiery love because I really believe God has marked this generation and even when I say that it's everyone that's alive during a window of time so often we can kind of isolate with the generations but I believe it's Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and I believe it's a blending of the generations and it's this generation it's gonna be a firebrand generation that will be willing to be ignited by His love to stir up, we'll call it a revolt or a revolution for the glory of the kingdom and I believe really those things have already began to happen and there's a wind of His presence that's blowing and more than anything it's blowing upon just the embers of the hearts of the sons and daughter and then as our hearts are awakened with that fiery love all of a sudden things begin to change and I think that that's what we're gonna begin to see is that it really is this move of the spirit this move is going to be marked by His amazing perfect love. Come on. Amen, amen. I agree with you and Matt. And so we have about a minute left in our time with you can you take that time and just pray for our viewers that they would experience the fire of God and also for the younger generation? So God we just thank you that you are pouring out your love and you're revealing to us who you are. God I thank you that you're setting a generation on fire that they will know this love and this love will transform them. I thank you God when a generation grabs ahold of how passionate you are for them they will become passionate. God it's because you first loved us it's because you were first passionate for us that we can even love you and be passionate back. So God I thank you for a generation that's gonna encounter you in such a special way. Yeah Lord I just thank you Lord for what is taking place even now in this hour that really there's an ignition there's a blast off and it's a whole new upper room season God where there's the wind that's gonna come blowing and then there's this reality of fire that's gonna descend upon the hearts of your sons and daughters Lord. And I decree and declare that awakening sound begin to be released even into the atmosphere this day Lord that it would be a season of the fresh encounter with the fire of perfect love God that ignites a passion and a purpose that faith would be so unshakable God that the world could not even comprehend what's about to happen Lord God but they'll only be able to give credit to you Jesus and I thank you Lord for the generation Z God that's being marked even in this time in this hour God to be carriers of your presence Lord that like a Joshua generation they're the ones that are gonna cross over into fresh dimensions being led by your presence because in your presence Jesus is the fullness of joy and there are pleasures that are at your right hand forever more and they're better than any earthly pleasure and I declare today God an awakening to the reality of this amazing love that resounds and reverberates inside our very beings. We declare that now in Jesus name. Amen. Yes, amen to the awakening that God is calling us to wake up into who we are and to who he is and what he wants to do through us through the power of the Holy Spirit in us. So Stephen and Renee, thank you so much for bringing the fire today. We love it. We appreciate you and thank you for spending the time with us. It's been a real pleasure and honor. We really appreciate you Tom and Anna Yeah, excited for what God's about to do. And again, I love your message hope today because that is what this world needs. It is the answer, love and hope. Thank you. Well, God is surely doing a new thing and we're so glad you're with us. We have to take a quick break but make sure to come back. We're gonna be talking about the beauty of God pursuing God experiencing that fire so you're not gonna wanna miss it. Stay with us. Cornerstone television exists because of the faithful support of our partners. Thanks to you, we get to proclaim the good news of Jesus both locally and around the world. All this month is our way of saying thanks. We are offering this beautiful and inspirational 16 month calendar for your best gift to CTVN. This special Israel calendar 75th anniversary edition celebrates 75 years of modern Israel as a nation. Each month you'll enjoy a new and beautiful feature of the Holy Land. You'll be blessed to see places in the Bible come alive. This 16 month calendar runs from September 2023 to December 2024 and has plenty of space for writing your daily activities. Request the special Israel calendar 75th anniversary edition as our thank you gift when you give to CTVN today. To give call 888-665-4483 or go to ctvn.org slash donate. Hope happens here. Well, I love what Stephen and Renee was sharing with us about going after God, seeking God, gazing on His face. And we have a scripture very, very in keeping with that. It's Psalm 63 verse one inside of the New Living Translation. It says this, Oh God, you are my God. I earnestly search for you. My soul thirsts for you. My whole body longs for you in this parched and weary land where there is no water. Now I want to say this first, Anna. It's earnest, earnestly searching. You know what? We know what to do when something's earnest. When we earnestly desire something, we put all our effort towards it. We really give everything for it. And if you've played any sports, I've played one year of football in high school and those coaches will tell you what's earnest. They'll make sure you're doing earnest, earnestly seeking after. I can remember being run to, you were just about ready to pass out, but that was the strength that you were gonna need when game time came. I can remember biking years ago and we were biking all the way to Washington, DC on our bikes and we ran out of water and there was like a 20 mile period where we didn't have any water at all. And in the middle of the summer, that gets to be pretty, you get this pretty parched feeling. But when you finally get that water, it's like, oh, this is everything I've been looking for. And that's what God has to say to you. He is everything that we've been looking for. Right, I appreciated how Renee talked about Jesus being the living water. And so often we look to the world, the things of the world to satisfy us. And yet it is never satisfied. We continue to have this parched, weary heart. And what it is that we need is the living water of Jesus that fully satisfies. And once we get a taste of that, we can never get enough. And the scripture just speaks to David who understood the satisfaction of Jesus. And so today, I just wanna say that if you feel parched and weary, if you long for hope and peace and joy and passion and purpose and that fire of God, God calls you to come into His presence. Experience the living water, the overwhelming love of a father that is a pursuing God. He is pursuing your heart today and He wants to fully satisfy you and fill you up with everything you need. Absolutely, there's an old song that says, I'm gonna turn my eyes on Jesus, look full on His wonderful face and the things of earth will go strangely dim in the light of His glory and grace when we see Him for who He really is, when He takes the clouds away. The Bible says we see through a glass darkly but He is removing those clouds and we're seeing brighter and brighter as we get to know Him, as we see Him, as we pursue Him. The things of earth that we pursue so strongly, they grow quite a bit dimmer because we see the glory and we see the satisfaction in knowing the one for whom we were created and that's Jesus Christ. Have a great day in Him today.