 Hi, good morning. I want to thank Angela for the introduction and Angela and Lori for organizing this event. I think this is an amazing program and the resources they have on their website for anyone looking for work or some career coaching is fantastic and I'm happy to be a part of this and excited to be speaking with you today. I'm going to go into my slideshow presentation. My name is Tim Bambush. Angela gave me a nice introduction. I'm going to try the subtitles. Let's see how that works. I'm sorry, this is a new thing for me. But I'm a little bit hard of hearing, so whenever I can use subtitles, I love it or if English is not your first language, maybe that's helpful. And Angela, will the captioning also be recorded as part of the presentation? Yes, there'll be a live transcript when we send out the link for the recording. Well, that's great because as a presenter, while I have a lot of information on the slides, I sometimes go off script and that way if there's something that I said that you can't recall by looking at the slides later, you'll be able to see that. And whatever your captioning services, it's amazing. I'm reading this and it's 100% accurate. So, so let me move on here to my first slide. My name is Tim Bambush, as we mentioned, and I had an interesting career progression, which makes me sympathetic to anyone who's contemplating a career change or has reached a dead end somewhere in their career. Because this happened to me, I've had to change my careers several times. I've been laid off several times and somehow or another, I've managed to make it forward and so anyone who's facing a job search, especially nowadays. I want to be supportive in any way I can. I just finished a, a long dish job search that was very discouraging. And in the end I ended up with a great job and I hope that this is what happens for you too. There's these are the topics I'd like to talk about what is the state of the profession project management. Sorry to Angela. Yes. You are sharing your screen right now. I am or am not am not. Oh, see I see some I'm glad you said something. Let me get to the screen share. Okay, share screen I was seeing something and you weren't. That's why I could read the captioning dismiss all dismiss all. Yes. Okay, can you see my screen now. Yes, books. Okay. Great. So now I'm going to close some of these windows and go into my presentation mode again. I don't know why it's not doing that. Oh, because it's over there. Are you seeing the presentation mode and the transcripts below. Is that what you're seeing. I am just seeing the presentation slides. Okay. Like in the PowerPoint. Perfect. Okay. So let me dive into this. Let's talk a little bit about the state of project management as a profession. It's a highly sought after skill set. Almost any job that you have these days will benefit from having project management skills. That doesn't mean that you need to become a project management professional or have tons of training. One really good introductory class would probably be enough for you to acquire the skills that you need for having it be one of your skills. But if you want to enter the profession. We'll talk more about how to do that later. So project management is also a necessary skill in other professions. You cannot be good at product management, IT management or business analysis, for instance, without also being a skilled project manager. Again, the level of training you need for that might vary, but it's a great skill set to add to what you already know in life. This is sorry. Do you intend to, you know, share the preview view? No, I'm intending to share the full slide. Okay, then I think you can click on from current slide on the top. Okay, let me see what we got going here. Yeah, on the top there, click on current slide. I'm going to share again and make sure I'm picking the right screen. There we go. Thank you for telling me. I don't know what you can see. So this is helpful. Now you should see my entire slide and the transcript. Great. Yes, we can see the presentation view now. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Now, the other thing about project management is there are project management roles in almost any industry and if you've read my profile and you may have noticed from Angela's introduction, I've worked in a lot of industries as a project manager and that's something that can be advantageous that if you need to you can switch industries. These are some that are really prominent industries that employ lots of project managers, IT products and services, either developing them for sale or using them in your everyday role is a huge industry. Financial services and insurance make great use of project managers because their IT platforms to manage customer data and billing are significant consumer electronics think Apple life sciences think Genentech construction companies, whether big companies like web core that builds skyscrapers or home improvement contractors, they make use of project managers, utilities and any form of government or state university including universities also employ project managers. The salaries will vary by industry and by your location. So I can't, you know, it and consumer electronics tend to pay very well as well as life sciences and state agencies probably don't pay as much. So that's just something to keep in mind. The Bay Area, it's very hard to get good data on what project managers make, because the Bay Area pays much better than most of the company of the country. So when you look up on glass door or indeed what average salaries are, you're going to see lower than you can expect to get paid in the Bay Area. The numbers I put here 80 to 150 K are pretty standard 80 would be rather low for somebody who's already experienced and brings other competencies to project management and 150 K is a higher end salary for project management with some experience and companies like Apple Facebook, Google and Amazon tend to pay even better than that but they also are very demanding in the skills that they bring so the good news coming out of this is that it's a well paid well respected profession in that regard. So my next slide. It's not going. I need to figure out why. Let me shrink this maybe. No. Okay, enter. There we go. Go back just to make sure I didn't skip one. So how do you become a project manager many of you may already be project managers and don't know it because it's not part of your formal job description and as we define this a little bit more you'll see what I mean. So it may be built into your current role and if after this talk you realize that project management is part of your current role there's some things that you could think about doing. You could ask it to be added to your job description. You could ask that it be built into your performance management and salary expectations. If you enjoy it and want to keep doing it and want to take that role on more and more at your work. You can ask your employer to help pay for the cost of training. Many companies will pay up to about $5200 a year for continuing education. And if you want to do this and your employer wants to do this, they may just be willing to help pay for that process. Many people have volunteered to step into a project management role in their current jobs. That is a great way to do this companies like it if you volunteer to take on more responsibility. So if you find that this is something you want to do, ask and you may be given the opportunity to pursue that work at your company, which is a good sign it means they trust you, and they want you to grow in your job. You can also volunteer for professional or service oriented organizations to organize events or things like that. I did one of the first projects I ever managed was a kitchen remodel project and I learned that more in that project than I did almost anything else I've done in my life, because kitchen projects are quite complex. You can also get training to be a project manager, you can take single courses or workshops there's a wide variety of opportunities out there that you could look into, including LinkedIn learning or mooks. The Bay Area extension programs at Berkeley Santa Cruz and Davis are really good. There are other online providers that you could look at to get some training. If you're really ambitious you can get a certificate through one of the extension programs, or there are two commonly respected professional certifications the project management professional. I'm happy to answer some questions about that later in the presentation, or a certified scrum master which is a certification for agile project management. Another thing I encourage you to do if you're interested in entering the profession is just network, ask people what's it like to be a project manager what skills do I need. How do I get my foot in the door make friends and networking is for me a joyful experience because I like people and I like meeting them and you build relationships. It's also a little bit random you never know which networking event is going to lead you somewhere. My only other advice about networking is don't go asking for a job ask what it means to do a certain kind of work or to work for a company or ask for advice. I gave a talk on this topic earlier this year that I think is still available on the website and I think I saw it on Google the other day when I was making sure that this was being advertised. There are some hard truths, they are not barriers but they are hard truths that we have to set some reasonable expectations on the challenges you might face and wanting to become a project management manager. It is easier to evolve into project management in your current company and industry, then to change industries and become a project manager at the same time. So, if you're working at a bank as a teller, and you want to become an IT project manager, that's probably not a very plausible path forward for you. If you're working for a bank, and you realize you enjoy getting involved in implementing new account types or programs at the bank, and you want to become a project manager in the bank. That's a plausible path forward so when you do this be be be mindful that staying in your current industry or company is easier than making two changes at the same time. I have to let you know though that it's also very hard at times to change your employer's mind about how they think about you. Many employers hired you for a specific job and that's all you are to them. They are not interested in your growth, they are not interested in promoting you, you are you're fulfilling a need, and they aren't interested in your professional development. And some of them may offer you more responsibilities, but not give you a pay raise. I've experienced this myself. I've experienced. I have many friends who have experienced this too. And so the next to the last bullet at the bottom is a true one, you may have to leave your current job to be rewarded for acquiring your PM skills, which has been one of the strategies that I've used in life and especially in the Bay Area, changing jobs is not a bad thing. And they are often associated with a promotion and a pay raise so that's not a bad thing to do. The next bullet I want to talk about is one that I don't enjoy mentioning because I've seen people suffer from this. I've known especially very talented very well educated women who are not native born Americans. They're not the, and, and they're from other countries obviously, and they have faced incredible barriers. One friend of mine is an African American woman. She's a lesbian. She's one of the smartest people I've ever known. She works for a company that says it's committed to diversity she gets great what rave performance reviews. And the best that they did for her was to offer her a promotion and role and not a nickel more and money and she was underpaid to begin with. This is a sad fact about the world that we live in and tech is notorious for this. And the only thing I can say is, and I'm very sorry about this it upsets me is keep persisting. Find a place that values you and go there. If you can't find if you're not finding the success where you are. Find the places in this world that you may not have the experience you're looking for, but there are other places that will. So please keep persisting, and don't be discouraged if you face these sorts of problems in your job search. Let's get into some more knowledge about what project management is so that you can begin to think about is this a career that you want to get into. According to the project management Institute and they are generally acknowledged as the authority. A project is a temporary endeavor undertaken to create a unique product service or result. Let's think about this for a second because it's important projects are unique because they develop products and services that are different than any other ones that have been made before. And we'll have some examples on the next slide projects are temporary because they have a distinct start and finish. They start when you begin to define requirements, and they end when you deliver the work and team members move on to new projects. Okay, so it's a very temporary experience. If you want to compare projects to business processes or processes, a process is a repeatable sequence of activities that. I forgot me there a repeatable sequence of activities that is designed to produce similar or unique similar results. I, again, similar results project managers focus on delivering work according to plan and within defined constraints, which are usually understood to be scope schedule and resources resources being people and money. Process managers focus on repeatability optimization and the elimination of waste. So, and they're all sorts of waste, we don't need to go into that because it's a project and not process management talk, but they're very different and yet some of the same skills are necessary you need to be analytical you need to know. You need to be able to schedule things you need to understand your subject matter. You're usually making something but they are very distinct as I've defined on the slide. I thought I'd give you some examples comparing typical projects to typical processes and areas that feel like they're related so that you can get a good feel for this. In construction building a new building or upgrading an existing building is a project building management means maintaining or optimizing existing infrastructure like HVAC or the walls or elevators plumbing electricity. That would be more building management those are repeatable processes that are meant to maintain rather than to create something new. In biology, anytime you install upgrade or migrate it systems or develop it products, those are projects, but someone who works in it as a systems administrator who is operating doing everyday operations on things such as network servers desktop computers firewalls business systems, they are involved in processes. In the life sciences you might develop new medicine diagnostic diagnostics devices or biologics, but in healthcare, those are all projects and healthcare you manage healthcare delivery, including maintaining infrastructure staffing management patient data management and billing. Those are all processes and software development, you might develop software that has a particular purpose. One that's important where I work is Oracle financials Oracle financials enables people to complete accounting processes, which would be the recording communicating controlling and analysis of financial transactions. There's a lot of entertainment here there's a lot of great area if you're planning in planning for an event, including all the elements food and facility music entertainment transportation registration, those are projects, but catering. Amounts to someone telling you how many people are you going to serve where how long are you expected to be on site and what kind of food do you want them to eat and that amounts to ordering from a catalog it's highly repeatable, highly defined and that's more of a process. And the last example I want to give is for research projects, designing unique experiments to develop new scientific knowledge would be a project. Lab work would usually means performing well defined repeatable activities to achieve predefined and predictable outcomes. So I'm going to pause there for a second is there are there any questions about the contrast between projects projects for people to understand. Great, that's fine. That's fine. So now let's talk about what a project manager is you've got to hint to this already project managers display the lead or play the lead role in planning executing monitoring controlling and closing out projects. They are accountable for the entire project scope, the project team and resources, the budget, and the success or failure the project. They have very little formal authority. It depends on the culture of the place that you work, but nobody reports to a project manager project manager is no one's boss, usually, except maybe for other project managers. Nonetheless, they can be quite powerful because business leaders count on them to deliver value. So in some companies the project manager is powerless, has no formal authority and no informal authority, and in some they wield tremendous authority. I've had it happen that a project manager complained to my boss and my boss was in my office. First thing the next morning to tell me that she was unhappy with me. So that can vary. Before we get into specialized skills that a project manager needs to have there are some general skills that they need to have. And I would describe a project manager as a geek who's very detail oriented and has great interpersonal skills if you were to summarize that in just a few words. A geek because they do need some technical knowledge. They are detail oriented because they need to be able to get down in the weeds and understand how data points relate to each other. I have interpersonal skills because I would imagine that about 75% of a project manager's time is an in interacting with people, and when you are trying to manage people and have no formal authority. You need to have the power of your personality and your communications that will help you succeed. So I don't need to go into all of those bullets here, but you can see that you do need this combination of skills to be a project manager. You need to have some very specific project management skills and we'll talk about that a little bit later they must be able to define what work must be done with a great level of detail and what work will not be done in a project. They create schedules and budgets, they create and motivate project teams, they manage project risk and quality and we can take questions on what that means later they measure and report progress. I've kind of addressed this already, especially in the Bay Area. There's a strong prejudice to having technical skills if you're developing technical projects or working on it projects that isn't necessarily a predictor that someone's going to be a great project manager if they don't have the accompanying interpersonal skills that we mentioned on the previous slide so some people say tech managers should be tech savvy. So the more technical the work you manage the more they're going to expect of you, but as you become more experienced. And you have a track record of being able to manage technical problems, or manage projects effectively. This will become less important and in the end, it's your ability to deliver on time and what people expect that matters more than your technical knowledge. I would also say that on any project, if the project manager is spending most of their time solving technical problems, they're not good project managers you should lean on your technical experts on your team to do that kind of work. I thought a long time about this slide but I suppose that if you don't like what you do every day as a project manager you shouldn't be one so I developed this slide for that. I would say the bulk of your time as a project manager is spent in meetings or answering emails. And these are the kinds of things that you do when you are in meetings or answering emails you're planning projects. You're managing changes to project plans because that's inevitable. You manage stakeholder expectations. That takes a lot of time and you need to be proactive to do that you monitor and report status and you address common project issues such as schedule slips cost overruns quality defects technical or design challenges and individual or team performance issues. You spend a lot of time talking with people if you don't like engaging with people you should think about whether or not this is the right career for you. There's a lot of task management. You have to identify prioritize and complete every important tasks daily. This takes good judgment so you don't get lost in something that isn't essential. You have to chase down folks to make sure that they get their work done. I have to admit that's my least favorite part of the job I hate nagging people. You also have to enjoy authoring documents reports presentations analysis spreadsheets emails process documentation. I started off as a writer so I really enjoy the writing and presentation and teaching part of project management, and you also have to enjoy doing analysis reviewing documents to identify a project scope, reviewing all sorts of reports, studying policies procedures and presentations and more and more your ability to analyze data with Excel, or even more powerful tools is another thing that project managers are expected to do on a daily basis. I wanted to spend some time talking about different project management methodologies that you'll hear about so that when you hear about them you'll have a little bit more understanding of what people are talking about. There's one kind of project management that is still the most common called traditional or waterfall project management. This basically means that when you're creating a project plan, you're attempting to plan in detail project work. And you try to schedule this pretty much through the duration of the project unless this becomes a multi year project in which case you start planning and waves. This form of project management utilizes knowledge areas to show how to manage projects. We'll talk about that in a minute. Agile project management you've probably heard of, and it's a very different way to approach that project management. This approach, you believe that planning is a wasteful approach because there are too many unknowns. And so you only commit to doing the smallest amount of work that you need to do right now in order to make progress. And then in the process of doing that work you learn more for the next step in the project. So Agile project management defines and develop work in short cycles that are often called sprints. Agile aims to produce usable deliverables after each sprint and is open to reprioritizing and sequencing work at the end of each sprint. We'll go into that a little bit. That's a deep topic. If anyone's interested, you can contact me and I'll be happy to share more information. And then there are hybrids where I work right now as a hybrid environment. There's a lot of effort up front in planning and identifying everything that needs to be done, but when we hand off work to our technical teams they tend to work with agile development. So that's a hybrid approach. Here's a visualization of what waterfall project management looks like. You have overlapping phases of a project with the suggestion that like just as water flows downhill, the project flows downhill until you complete it. So that's actually a misrepresentation but it's a common term, and I'll get into that in a minute why that's a misrepresentation. In fact, on this slide. Traditional project management looks a lot more like this graphic. You have five process groups, initiating planning execution, monitoring and controlling and closing. And they overlap tremendously as you can see on the on the slide, the level of effort varies throughout the project. And then as a project progresses over time some of these phases closed down so in initiating when you're planning what the project is supposed to do. So you have intense effort very early, and you tend to close that down. As the project has begun, sometimes project planning begins planning initiation says what are you going to do, and project management says how are we going to manage the effort to do the work. So you begin to budget and schedule and acquire resources while initiating is going on so that when initiating is done, you have your teams and things in place so that you can get going project execution. You know, some of this sounds a little bit, you know, unpleasant we're executing and we're controlling, but really executing only refers to doing the work to make what it is that your project is supposed to make. Whereas monitoring and controlling which is more the work of the project manager, you're looking over everyone's shoulder to make sure that the work is on time with the right and that the work is being done properly. And when the unexpected happens you manage the unexpected, or if you're worried that the unexpected is going to happen, you have contingency plans to manage that. So that's what monitoring and controlling is. And then at the end of a project you have closing processes where people are ready to deliver their work that's why they're called deliverables. So really there's a review process to make sure that the deliverables meet the expectations that you had at the beginning of the project, and that you begin to close down with things like writing reports, conducting lessons learned activities archiving copies of your documentation, paying vendors if you've outsourced anything during the project, and then at the end, releasing the people who work on your project to move on to their next project. So that's kind of what traditional project management looks like from a process perspective. And traditional project management divides at the kinds of knowledge that you need to know into 10 areas and I'm, I don't want to go through all 10 of these. But this is profound to know how you manage scope, which is the work that you commit to doing. You know, your schedules costs quality human resources communications risk procurement and stakeholders, the degree to which you know how to do these things will help you understand at a very deep level. How all of the elements of a project integrate together. Okay. So if you want to go into agile project management, I might suggest taking at least one course in traditional project management, because even in agile you, you manage all of these things, but agile training doesn't make you think this way. And I think these are great skills to understand how all of these types of things that go into a project interact with each other. I do go on. Are there questions about traditional project management before I give you a sample of what agile looks like. I don't see any question in the chat Tim. Okay, I invite people to start thinking about questions because we want to leave about 15 minutes at the end for questions, and I'm open to anything related to the presentation for questions. Agile project management as I mentioned is more of a progresses in short bursts of planning and development delivery integrated together in a unit of time that we call a sprint rather than long horizon planning execution development delivering. These are short bursts of planning development testing and delivering. And I'm going to review one particular kind of agile that's quite common, especially in the Bay Area called scrum. One thing I'll just warn you agile likes to use lots of weird terminology, and that's what Wikipedia is for. Don't let yourself get weirded out by this just look it up it's all common sensical and you'll figure it out real fast. So one of the things about agile that is great is you have this person called a product owner, whose job it is to interact with customers who tell them what it is they need and it is a product owner's job to define their needs for the role that they play. So if you are an accountant, I want to, you might say, as an accountant, I want to create a closing report at the end of every month. So that I can report to my stakeholders are current the current state of our finances. Okay, that's kind of an exact way, but when we defining requirements and agile we always link back. First, who's doing the work, what they want to do, and why it matters to them. So this is very powerful. Because the work and agile is always driven by user needs, and it's implicit and they're required or explicit in the requirements and not implicit so the product owner will create a list of requirements. So they're prioritized by what the product owner says is important, and they will usually in a spreadsheet or some tool that does this for them, create a backlog of all of these things that need to be done. And in advance of a sprint, the product owner will sit down with the project manager who's also known as a scrum master. And some experts, and they'll start planning the work that they want to do in the sprint, which is usually two to four weeks long. And they will be very careful not to commit to more work than they can handle in that amount of time. And they will be very careful to make sure that when they're done they actually have something useful to get done at the end of the last weeks. And not only do they commit to that but they also commit to demonstrating that they have a working product at the end of that sprint. At the end of that planning session it might take several days. They'll create what they call a sprint backlog which is the list of things that will be done by the team. And so during that sprint, the team will develop what they've committed to. They'll meet daily to report progress in what you call a stand up meeting. And at the end they will demonstrate to the product owner that they have completed the work that they committed to work and if they don't, then that work is returned back to the product backlog for the product owner to decide when they want to return to that work. And the other thing that I like about agile is at the end of a sprint, the team can conducts a lessons learned on the spot so that they're better next time. They can talk about why didn't we get work done that we said that we were going to get done. Did we have problems collaborating were the requirements poorly defined. The other thing that's really keeping them from being a high performing team is fair game at the end of every sprint. And I think this ability to have feedback and open dialogue makes agile a very high performing and powerful model of project management. There's a lot of new terminology, and it's not how we think about project management in the world, but it's very powerful. I like agile I enjoy working in agile because it's intense is very team oriented and collaborative. And you get lots of feedback, and you're constantly trying to improve and those are things that I really like to do. John, are there any questions about agile that people would like to ask about. We got a couple questions and one of them it's about agile. The question is, in which cases, it's adopting a waterfall approach better than agile approach. That's a great question and I'm happy to answer that and that there's no hard and fast rules and agile people will argue with me over this so I think the more complex the project. And the more you have multiple teams doing work, especially if one team is working on hardware, which develops more slowly. And another team is working on software which develops more quickly. So the more variables you add in the and you have to account for it becomes really hard to work into week sprints. Okay, or four week sprints. And so those projects tend to be traditional projects or waterfall projects construction can be waterfall or traditional because you don't start building a building by installing the plumbing. There's a logical sequence to performing the work of building a building. And you really don't want to vary from that very much. Although, if you're on a construction site and you're building a building and there's a delay in one part of your project, and you have an opportunity to because a supplier or some materials are available. You weren't counting on you need to be able to build to build in the ability to pivot quickly day to day as a project manager and construction, which has some agile aspects to it. But generally, that's the answer that I would give you agile has its highest rate of adoption and software development agile is becoming more and more common in it projects. Businesses can't wait forever for a tweak to occur in an IT system. So, there's a. And of course I'm drawing a blank the minute I'm wanting to say this there's a methodology of agile where business partners and IT leaders commit to small amounts of work to incrementally improve the what a business system can do, or how it performs. DevOps that's the word DevOps so that's becoming more and more common with agile 3D printing is made it easier to use agile for hardware development. But I think that's generally speaking a fair representation of things. And then there are industries that that have specializations here if I am developing a new drug. Well, that needs to be an orderly process. I can't do a lot of pivoting every two weeks in my drug development that that tends to be more waterfall. If I'm working for a pharmaceutical company manufacturing a drug. The process of building the manufacturing site and doing all of the things you need to demonstrate that the site is ready for manufacturing is very slow and careful I would say that's probably a waterfall project. But if you work for the IT team and a pharmaceutical company, you're likely to use agile so all of this varies by industry. If I were giving advice and I am, I would say take one class and agile and one class and traditional. And that will get you a long way. And, and then you can decide for yourself what works for you depending on the kind of work that you want to do. Whoever asked a question that was that helpful. Is there a follow up to that. He just said yes, and thank you. Okay, great. The two, two related question I don't know if we have time. Oh, we do it's only 12 till and I'm almost at the end. Okay, okay. So Tatiana wrote, how helpful do you think certified scrum master certification is. Well, there's two answers to that. You can pay $1,000 and be a certified scrum master in two days. And so there's a part of me that says, you get what you pay for, right. However, it's something you put on your LinkedIn profile, you will certainly learn the fundamentals of agile project management and those two days. It doesn't mean that you're going to be able to go get a job based on that. But if you're already working in a company and you think you want to be a project manager, getting a scrum certification would be a valuable thing. I also think that certifications, you know, employers respect people who continually add to their skills and invest in their careers. There's something about that kind of person that they value. I would not tell someone not to get the CSM I am a CSM I it has helped me be a better worker. And, but I think you also have to have some experience in your job you're not. If you don't have experience in the kind of work that you're going to do having that isn't going to make up the difference. I would say where does is it deaf ops fit into the whole project management methodologies. I would say that's an agile specialization. And I would say that it is particularly suited for it project management. When you build a building you know that the horizon of finishing the work can be a year or more. Oracle financials for instance. You don't want to wait a year to fix a problem. That you're having managing your accounting processes, you want to get that done fast. And so in dev ops. The accounting the people are responsible for accounting in the it team the people are responsible for meaning, maintaining that system, get together and they. They, they make plans for short term project work to make short term fixes that provide the highest possible value and a hurry to the organization. I hope that answered that question. And by the way, I'm not an expert dev ops. So, if you were to read for half hour on the internet, you would probably be able to find more information than I could tell you right now. There are two more question but not related to this particular slide. No, go ahead. Okay, so earlier Rick asked, it's PMP certification necessary to be successful in a tech related project management field. I think that I would encourage anyone who's interested to get the PMP certification. It's a great tie breaker. If you have to equally qualified people, it will break the tie. I know that I have gotten jobs that other people didn't because I am a PMP. Anyone who is able to take the classwork study for and pass that exam has demonstrated a level of competence and analytical intelligence that is valuable for being a project manager. When I talked several slides ago about these knowledge areas and process groups. The ability to understand the dynamics of how all of these things interact with each other is a tremendous intellectual capability. So I strongly urge people to do this. If you to take the PMP exam they expect you to have approximately two years of experience. Working on projects. If you have a bachelor's degree or more. If you don't have that get a certificate from UC Berkeley or UC Santa Cruz extension. You'll actually learn more that way, and you'll still have a certification that you can put on your resume and LinkedIn. So I encourage everyone to do that. The other reason for being a PMP is you'll inevitably join the project management Institute we have several chapters in the Bay Area and the treasurer of the San Francisco chapter. And it's a great way to network and meet people. So that's good for your career as well. However, there are plenty of people who have gotten the PMP exam who don't have the interpersonal skills or the work experience to be successful and they're not good project managers so just having a PMP is not going to guarantee your success, but it is a great enabling certification. Thank you Tim question from HG. Thank you for this informative section of their annualization where hands on experience can be earned, and any additional resources can be shared with regards to PMP certification prep and keep up with latest information in this area. So I would trust the PMIs webpage for the PMP exam they are the authority. And they have a handbook for how to prepare for the PMP exam. And I could tell you what's in there. It would take me a lot of time but it's there. So I would trust that. As far as hands on experience. I don't I used to manage Berkeley's project management courses. So I know this very well, and I will promote that, not because I think Santa Cruz is bad. That's actually where I took all my project management training. But at Berkeley for every class you will have a virtual project that you create demonstrating the project management tools that you're learning. And then you can apply that to the work that you are doing. So if you work in a lab, then you will do, you can create a project that that relates to lab work. For people who don't have that kind of work experience. I usually suggest that they plan a project to remodel a kitchen or bathroom. As I, as I mentioned, those are actually rather complicated projects and you'll learn a great deal so what part of what I'm saying is, by the time you finish you see Berkeley's program. You'll have 210 hours of instruction you'll have taken seven classes, each with their own project. That's a lot of hands on experience. If you want practice in the real world and not in a learning environment. You'll have your own project management to renovate your own bathroom or kitchen, or, or whatever landscaping. There are project management roles for professional organizations, and if you're into it habitat for humanity is always looking for people. So I would suggest volunteering for habitat for humanity if you need to volunteer opportunities. Thank you Tim. There are a couple more questions. Sure. We don't have four more minutes. So a question from Diana, would you provide an example of PMP or CS CSM and higher education, which specific department would be most applicable facilities, student affairs, etc. Now that's an interesting question. If I understand and the chat can confirm this. Where would you go looking for training is that is that what I understand or would you apply those skills in one of those areas as an employee. Where applied. Okay, could I have that list again just to make sure. Facilities, student affairs. So in facilities. As I mentioned earlier there's a lot of ongoing operations. However, there are always projects involved, you know, we're going to upgrade the HVAC system that's something that's happened a lot this year we're going to move offices. We're going to upgrade our plumbing so there's a lot of project management that goes on in facilities. Because those projects are construction oriented I would imagine that a traditional plan would work better. So ongoing operations and student services because you're usually managing student data answering student questions issuing completion reports or, or whatever it is that you're doing in student services. That's an operations role. However, all of the it systems that are involved with student services could be operations systems administration is what I mentioned earlier. So every time you need to upgrade one of those things. That's a project or deploy a new one. That's a project, depending on the institution that could be either agile or traditional project management. Universities are. Let's say change occurs at a slower rate in the university than it does in profit driven companies. So I would imagine that within the university system, unless you are on an it team. You're likely to be using traditional project management and even then the it team might be using traditional project management. How about student affairs or academic affairs. I think that the same applies. I don't think academic affairs. I'm, even though I work for a university I wouldn't want to presume what academic affairs the student affairs are more familiar with. I would imagine that's more traditional project management. They are so process driven. That they probably have a more natural affinity to traditional project management. Again within a university the only department that I can think of that is likely to use agile would be if you work for the it team. Thank you to it's almost 11 I know you have a meeting. There are two more questions, but do you mind if you can share your email if people have more questions they can send it. I thought that was on my first slide. Oh, it was neglected to do that. No I didn't, but look me up on LinkedIn. And you can find me, or my email is bombosh the way it's spelled here at gmail.com. Okay, thank thank you so much. Do you need to finish your present I noted that. Oh there was one more slide but I think I was at the end. Okay, let me go look again. Yep, I was at the end so there was nothing we missed there. People should feel free to reach out through LinkedIn. That's really a better place for me I don't mind seeing it in my personal email, but it's going to get lost. And when I go to LinkedIn, you know, there's, it's easier for me to see that somebody's reaching out to me for something specific. Okay, great. But thank you so much Tim we really appreciate you taking the time to share with us your experience and professional expertise. And thank you everyone for joining us. I hope you find a presentation informative and helpful to you will send our evaluation survey together with the slide deck and a link to the recording later today. Please give us your give us your feedback so we can continue to improve our program. Again, thank you everybody and have a wonderful rest of your day. Okay, thank you everyone for attending good luck and I wish you all well. It's a good world out there. Sometimes there's a lot of challenges. Don't get discouraged just keep persisting and you'll be fine. Thank you so much Tim. Have a good day everybody.