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The murder of Jill Dando April 2nd 2019 Okay Hopefully they let me post it. I'd be sad. You but if they don't you know where it's going Patreon she was my younger sister We didn't share too many experiences together because because of the age difference But I remember we you know we shared times picnics on Western Beach on a on a Saturday or Sunday family picnics Shout out to the first responders in the chat. I mean in uh and the premiere to man. Thanks for hitting that like button, man It's important Wait, this film is about the one of the nation's most famous television presenters I've never even heard of Jill. I look at the monitor Who's that old get with white hair? I'm Nick Ross broadcast. At least I was broadcast for 40 years. Don't do much of it now Jill was my cousin She was she's a good-looking old lady. Okay. Let me focus Many of these people are sharing their experience for the first time, okay Detective Chief Inspector In 1999 there's a senior investigation officer for the murder of Jill Dando. The Metropolitan Police writ large Investigated that case so thoroughly, you know to the end of our ability and Examine so much to try to come to a conclusion And we're now 20 years later. I think it is relevant in one way to hear a perspective from the from the police to give her perhaps a a view on it from a from a 20-year distance Good morning from Jill and me. You're watching the BBC's breakfast news more of that at the moment, but here's Jill with something else Jill started on BBC breakfast time And then she was on the six o'clock news and you almost I think you get promoted within the news hierarchy Also in this morning's program more doctors are at work than on strike the queen in her Christmas message has said she will pray For peace around the world. That's it. The next national news is of course the nine o'clock news from the six o'clock team there Good evening. Good evening. We were a double act on the six o'clock news. I suppose As far as the audience was concerned Jill was a friend dropping in More so than any other newscaster. I think I've ever known Sir, I couldn't hear you I've now got something in my eye. It's a holiday. I was in New Orleans She'd always thought how lovely it would be to be on the holiday program for instance Can I just check again? I just want to just check something And then when that came to fruition Jill couldn't believe her luck that this thing that she dreamed of being on had been offered to her We were just watching at home thinking. Oh, yeah, there's Jill on the telly She was presenting. She'd done breakfast. She's on the holiday program Which was huge at the time crime watch the same a lot, you know millions of people were watching it She had this interest in Doing something in tv from a very early age and Achieved her ambition quite spectacularly Good evening and welcome as people all over the country are joining together once again to solve some of britain's most difficult and serious crimes It all depends on you and together Jill wore high heels on the program and when she wore high heels, she was taller than I was Easy to upstage me in the last shot of crime watch we come together and say good night to the camera Ten of nightmares do sleep well. Good night. Good night. And as she came in on that first program She quietly kicked her High heels off So she wasn't taller than I was she did that every single show Good night. Good night. Good night. Good night. Good night At the time I was director of news the bbc and I first saw Jill Um when she was presenting spotlight. I'm sure the spotlight in the southwest We were immensely lucky because you had someone there Who just had this really special connection With audiences it was remarkable People saw the the talent that she could bring And the natural character that that she had she she never had any ears or graces Eating In the last Two years or so of her life. I would she was like a very likable person like very charismatic Very respectful in her own ways, you know what I'm saying I like her saying that Jill Went from being competent to being a star She arose and looked amazing. She was I would say in command then She was powerful Hollywood, los angeles the greatest wannabe city in the world The greatest wannabe city in the world But she I don't think ever really gave herself credit for just how good she was There was a lot of razzmatazz and there was a lot of celebrity events prize givings She was going to these amazing places. She was staying in amazing hotels She had all these lovely outfits But that doesn't mean to say she didn't forget She still retained that girl next door Persona, which was absolutely the person that she was and she didn't change So until next week. Goodbye on that day. I walked up my road Took my usual route up Gowan Avenue Whoever it was picked a very quiet time in order to be able to do what they did Well, I crossed over the road And then I saw Jill's car I looked at her front door And then I saw She was outside Like she was outside with it Like first off like she was a very notable tv personality I feel like she might have lived in an affluent neighborhood Or this might not happen But like at a certain level of celebrity, I feel like everybody should move to like a gated community Like somewhere with security like that like this is cool But like just having a doorman at the bottom that can't get in That they have to call you and let people in and they bring your mail up like all of that like high rise buildings It's needed at some point, you know That's my personal opinion Right here. I feel like she's too accessible Looks like um, there's somebody collapsed Um, confidentially it looks like it's Jill Dando and she's collapsed There's a lot of blood You just approach and check that the lady's breathing for me She doesn't look as if she's breathing She's got blood coming from her nose her arms are blue I just need to find out if she needs if she's breathing Is the lady's chest going up and down? Oh my god, no, I don't think she's alive It's fine. Don't worry. I'm going to get some help there Fuck that guy Tecra 2699 Dando's body wasn't there that had already been taken by the ambulance service Still thought it was a stabbing and it was quickly established. I understood it No Whoever it was had been shot She got shot We could see the nature of the contamination that was being conducted by the ambulance crew But yeah, there was a limited forensic field there The fact that it was Jules Dando created an immediate major interest and a lot of news. But obviously we had to wait for formal identification. And there was a police officer at the hospital and then he confirmed to me that it was her. Between Court at 12 and 12 o'clock, the body of a woman was found outside number 29 Gowan Avenue. That woman has been taken to Charing Cross Hospital and that woman has been declared dead shortly after one o'clock. That woman has been identified as Jules Dando at the television prison. I can't believe she got sad though. She was 37. Jules was 37. 37. Peter, I'm telling you she was 37. Alright. I'll tell you that she was 37. Exactly two years younger than me. She was 37. Which I say. I'm telling you she was definitely 37. Within the past few minutes, police have confirmed that the BBC television presenter, Jules Dando, has been stabbed to death outside her West London home. She died in the ambulance on her way to hospital. Oh, she was alive upon her death. When they got there, she was alive. Okay. But then she passed away in the ambulance. I'm saying okay like it made a difference, but I'm just... Details at the moment. The next schedule bulletin as is at 240. It mattered so much to us to deliver the news accurately about one of our own. Oh, that was you? It was. It mattered so much to us. Okay. It was so dreadful and is so dreadful to have a personal friend murdered on her doorstep. It's just, it just makes my blood run cold even though it's just awful. See, that's what I'm saying. Like, I get it that's an affluent neighborhood. You would never expect it to go down like that in that neighborhood, especially like gunshot. Like, but like living in a high rise, man, there's a positive. There's a good, there's a, there's a move to it. There's like, nobody can just get up there. It's secure. You know what I'm saying? Or living like in a gated area. Like, I'm pretty sure she could have afforded it. That's just my, just the way I've been thinking. Like, if I was to ever move to London or the UK, I'm in and I'm living in the high rise. I don't care. I'm like, come here. I got me in the high rise. Top, not the top floor, but I'm in there for sure. Like out here, I can kind of move freely. You know what I'm saying? Because I'm not known to nobody know who I am here. But if I go there, I'm, people know who I am. People are mad at me because I do reactions. Like, I'm in an high rise. And I'm finding out a way to get my gun there. That's just me. Whatever I got to do to be able to have my blick there and be able to carry it, that's what I'm going to do. Her injuries were so bad that police were unable to tell immediately if she'd been shot or stabbed. My two sisters came and knocked on the door and they said, there's been a terrible accident and Jules been stabbed, which is what the news was saying at that time. Then I think I said, is it serious? Where is she? How serious is it? And that's when they said she's dead. So... This is her sister? I mean her family, but a lot of other people in Western and the Western area who are going to be deeply, deeply sad about what's happened today. As far as my dad's concerned, I mean she was a devoted daughter and a sort of loving sister. That shock, the shocking news. I mean, when it's a close relative like that and you're told that that person has died in those sort of circumstances. And then suddenly they're no longer there. You had to front up and pay tribute to Jim. Which is the least she deserved in that moment. I can't believe we're talking in the past tense about her. She was somebody who had such a passion about life. She was everything one could want and a colleague and a friend. I swear, bro, I feel like this is a story of somebody just hating. Somebody was just hating on Jules. This is what I'm feeling right now. Somebody was hating hard. People hate to see you doing good. People love to see you doing good but not better than them. Like, somebody hated on that level. Like, that's crazy. A call from a friend of mine newspaper editor. He said, are you sitting down? Tell me the news. And that's the main news tonight. The brutal killing that today stunned everyone here at the BBC television centre. A senseless murder that leaves this newsroom in which she worked a darker place and makes a lot poorer the medium which she graced. Good night. Maldives. Good afternoon. Officers leading the hunt say five people saw a well-dressed man near Gildando's flat about the time of her murder. She was shot with a 9mm semi-automatic pistol which can't be legally held. The tributes here on the flowers echo the overriding reaction of shock that has met the news of Gildando's death. Thousands of people have been sending messages of sympathy to the BBC. Many are from people who never met Gildando. The nation took an interest in a murder investigation in a way that you see in other cases, but this somehow felt quite personal, I think, for many people in society. It is continually on the national radio. It is continually on London radio. It is now recaps of Jill speaking back to you through the TV screen even though she has passed. Oh, that was wonderful. Wave after wave of information and outcry and empathy. Damn, I was on every one of those newspapers. But she was, that's crazy. You said... Things like a 7-7 and 9-11, they're a different scale. This was a single fatality. This was one murder. But it was the victim. It was the circumstance that made it one of the biggest cases. It was not the biggest case of its time. Damn. She had done a huge amount personally in the fight against crime by her role, not least in Crime Watch UK, and therefore this makes her death all the more poignant. It was mentioned in Parliament by Jack Straw, Tony Blair came forward to talk about it because this is such an extremely rare event. Everybody in the newsroom was saying, Why? Why? Why? How could this possibly have happened to Jill? The police admit it looks like a professional job. The circumstances make it look like it's a professional hit, but we just cannot exclude somebody who has a revenge or a grudge. Just make sure y'all do the adequate amount of policing because y'all got a reputation of not doing that. So just go do the police work and don't leave no stone unturned. How about that, sir? Archer has been stalking any number of possibilities that are open as to why Jill Janko was murdered yesterday. Narrow him down. He's been a stalker or a professional hitman, but every possible motive is being looked at. These are the decision logs that I wrote in the inquiry. Much of these logs have not been seen by anybody. They've been seen by the police. They've been seen by the courts and the defence, but they remain invisible. I look back. I was a lot of pressure there even in those early hours and days. There was a lot of people calling me. Y'all think I should tell... Hold on, I mean, I didn't tell nobody I was live, but I didn't even... story, story, story, story, story. I'm on Twitch live. Link is in my bio under my picture and that link tree just hit Twitch. It brings me straight to me. Directly and the media and through the press office and through senior command, giving ideas and suggestions as to who killed Jill Dando. Here we have no clear mover at all as to why killed Jill Dando, what has been achieved by killing her. Revenge, revenge. That's what I'm saying. Like, what was the point? It's some hate. Somebody's hating. For what? Money, sex, jealousy, ex-boyfriends, business, television, secrets about to be revealed, criminals, her crime watch work. Was there more than one person which we didn't know about? Either Jill Dando was murdered by a single person as an individual operating on their own or she was killed by an organised gang. What motivates a killer to kill in broad daylight? This isn't in the middle of the night. This isn't some dark alleyway. This was one of the highest risk murders that you could probably do. Is that a trained killer? Or is it an absolutely chaotic killer? And here's the crazy part. It was a 9mm semi-automatic pistol. That's just a 9. Out here in America that's like a Glocker or whatever, 1911, whatever, whatever, Nina Beretta, whatever. Broad daylight, right? Broad daylight. Nobody heard it? Somebody just happened to be walking and stumbled upon her. Nobody heard that? So with that, now you're going to hear that in that neighborhood. You're going to hear that. You might hear that two blocks away, three blocks away. Now here's the crazy part. Nobody heard that. So was there a silencer on there? So that alone, the way so far that we're only 15 minutes in but that right there frames it to me as it could have been for hire. Because nobody hears that outside point blank range, broad daylight, nobody heard a semi-automatic 9mm pistol go off. Even almost, I want to say, even with a silencer it's still, you still going to hear it a little bit. Don't let the movies fool you. Still pretty loud. Just questions I got, man. Driven by the emotion of the moment, all of those facets have to be worth, right? And I say this because I've been shot at this close, like not this close, but like pretty close. So I know what it sounds like. So like, it ain't no way. Ain't no possible way. Do you ever get worried about some of the things you see on crime watch? Oh yes you do, because you hear of such terrible people in this world doing terrible things. And that's what worries me, is the mentality of some people that can actually do those awful things. So yes I do. Did you, the peer of you, feel that you might get into trouble as a result of doing this? After all, you were attempting to nail fairly villainous individuals. I don't believe there is any connection, a crime watch connection with her killing. Right from the beginning, there was this assumption that she's something to do with crime watch. Damn. Do you ever go for somebody who's just the messenger? Well, why? Because it's a crime program, sure. But why not because of the holiday program she was doing? Why not because of any other program? Why not just because she was famous? Nah, this is where, nah, this happens. It's like when I react to music and people get mad at me for reacting to the music and calling the trash, this is the same, not the same, but like, it's tough. How would it be served by somebody on crime watch, some villain or criminal, going, I don't know what, I'm so upset with this, I'm going to kill Jill Dander? Well, that makes no sense at all. Even if it was a contract, there should be a fairly identifiable reason for someone to arrange and pay someone else to kill another. But nevertheless, we examined all the cases that Jill was involved in. Which cases she broadcast and, you know, with the police officers, there was just simply no evidence for it. And then the rumours started circulating that, of course the sun started it. Maybe she had been not just, not just killed, not just murdered, actually assassinated. Police confirm a death threat against the head of BBC News is being investigated by detectives leading the hunt for Jill Dando's killer. Tony Hall was one of the first to express his shock at the murder of Jill Dando on Monday. That's my mum. Well, we're all absolutely devastated by... We had three calls, as I recall, to the BBC switchboards in... Yeah, yeah, this is a scary world, man. This is a scary world that we're living in. And the chances that we're living in this world are already slim to none. Like, the fact that we're here is a miracle. You know what I'm saying? The fact that we're here is a miracle. You know? And then for people to be out here playing with people's lives like this is crazy. You know how... If you really put it in perspective of how fragile we are as a human race, these bones, this skin, when you get a cut, how easy it is to get a cut. We're fragile. And we're definitely more fragile emotionally than physically, which is even scarier. You know what I'm saying? You hurt somebody's feelings, they're going to come for you, physically. Like, that's wild. In London and Belfast, I listened to the voice of one of them, which said, basically, I was next. I mean, they were threatening me. I have no idea what that amounted to. Was it a real threat? Was it not a threat? So facts... They're often copycat things that happen after these sort of events, and the police took it seriously, but... Speculation remains high. She was the target of a Serbian professional killer responding to the NATO bombing of their television station in Belgrade. By the time it was light, the full extent of the destruction was clear. Videotape fluttered from the trees nearby. My mother did tell me the services said when we bombed their broadcasting station that we'd killed the Jill Dando of Serbia. The fact that it might have been a tit-for-tat reprisal, then I can understand that that might have been the case. Particularly since the way Jill was killed made me think it represented something bigger than the actual act. It doesn't mean to say that that was what happened, but I can see that that was what happened. Yeah, that seems like a legit reason. Out of all the logbooks. Not legit reason, but it sounds like a good, like, theory. Here we go. This is the decisions which raise the sensitive issues. Now, I'm on the way down the line making inquiries with the security services and the intelligence branches and to see whether they had any information or intelligence in respect of, is it really likely that somebody from Serbia travelled all the way to England to kill Miss Dando? Very unlikely, really. Is it likely that someone in Serbia or wherever contacted someone here to tell her to... There we go. Sounds plausible. She must be killed if there was some information. I'm sure we would have been told. Well, I know we would have been told, but there wasn't any. The Serbian link was pretty quick to be able to close that down through international intelligence opportunities, but it was one that was, I think, foisted on the investigation team and was held to be true and some people were still aware today that it was the case, but no evidence was found. I can think of many cases where a darker conspiracy is offered up and suggested, which turns out to actually be, unfortunately, somewhat more mundane and boring. Who's it better to always say, you know, what do you actually know? What do you really know? And that was the key here. What was the actual evidence? From 22 minutes in, y'all ain't got nothing. It's back to the crime scene. There we go. Do some police work. How about that, you know what I'm saying? They'd be killing me when I'd be watching these documentaries and they'd be going through every other step of the basics. Like, start with a base and work your way up. Like, come on. This is the casing which was found at the crime scene. One of the features of this casing were these little indentations. There were six of them going round the circumference. So there was something odd about it. Someone had obviously done it by hand. It was one of the features which didn't reveal... Yeah, I thought I was looking at that casing. It was like a hand crimper. Common in London, right? Professionalism. The brass cartridge case has a series of tiny indentations around the top edge. This picture shot by the forensic team shows those dents in a straight line, an indication that the bullet may have been tempered with or explosive powder removed to deaden the sound of the shot. If this is a professional organization... Mmm. Okay, that might explain why there was no sound, man. Or less sound. But when you take out the powder, you've got to get up close, because that's going to take away the velocity of the bullet. Shooting this individual or gang only had one bullet to fire, and the one bullet they managed to fire had to be put together. You know, what was that about in terms of firing in a professional capacity, firing and then leaving the signature bullet behind? That was itself an odd feature as well. Police know the weapon used in the murder was a semi-automatic handgun similar to this one. But detectives are still reluctant to place too much emphasis on theories that a contract killer carried out the attack. There was a view that the person responsible was likely more to be a sort of individual act rather than an organized criminal network planned hit. That wasn't the thinking. The post-mortem report, the nature of the injury to her head, the markings there indicated that the silencer couldn't have been on the gun. Because it went through the barrel, the bullet went through a... Okay, so no silencer, bullet tampered with to make it quiet. Questions are being answered. A single operator... They always say that most people who are killed are killed by someone they know. When this situation happens, you think about every possibility and everybody becomes a suspect. You question everything and you question everybody's motives and you think about every single person in turn and think, could they have been the one that did it? So this is all Jill's special memories. It's a record of her career. This was put together by a friend of hers. So you can see that the cuttings are cuttings that have been made by someone else and then this was given to Jill. And that's just typical of the sort of thing that Jill would get. I can't bear to get rid of it because everything in here was so important to her. But also, I think, it's her legacy and I think for my daughter's sake, I want us to have this and we don't know what we'll do with it, but someday we might. No, I feel that. I feel that. In my old age, which I thought I'd spend with Jill, it would be nice to go through the stuff. Sorry. It's okay. It's understandable that you're getting emotional. Jill was always seems sensible. She was always nicely dressed. Always interested in everybody else. Always very kind to people. And you never saw a horrible side to her at all and she wasn't too good to be true. This is really who Jill was. She didn't have any enemies. It's so ridiculous. Why would they target Jill? What possible reason could anybody have for doing that? Except, of course, the fact that she was in the public army. The public do love you because some people in your position could suffer from being overexposed and it's not a problem with you. We could take even more of you. Well, I don't know about that. No, there is a danger. There is a danger. I mean, yeah, crime watch, the holiday program, the six o'clock news, and I realized when I took on crime watch with the extra job, I thought, well, people are going to get tired. Maybe they are, but I enjoy it and I think there's enough diversity in the programs for people not to think, you know, it's there again. It's sort of a bit of a chameleon. Maybe I can sort of adapt to the various roles, hopefully. But I love it. Not that I can remember in particular detail, but I do know every now and again there were people who she found, she wanted to be nice to everybody and sometimes she found it difficult to be nice to everybody. That's a fact. You can't be nice to everybody, man. You can't be nice to everybody in this game in that type of game because people get to, since they see you, especially as a TV personality, Steve Harvey, like, I was watching him and he made a point, like, when people see you on TV and you're a TV star and not a movie star, you're a TV star, they see you every day. They invite you every day into their home. So when they see you and when you speak to them, they take, it's more like, they feel like they know you. They're like, oh my, hey, Jill Ditto, remember? Like they want to have them type conversations with you and if you ignore them, it feels like, like, dang, I watch you every day and that's how you repay me. Like, they take it more personally. Wow. When they were making her life difficult, I can't think of any particular examples but I know that they were there. Jill Dando had two lives. She had her public life and she had her private life. It's entirely possible that her public life was the stimulus for someone killing her. The theory that it was a singular individual working on their own did include the type of person who may be stalking Dando or obsessed with her or following her or upsetting her. We didn't know. But the literally thousands of letters that she received and within that there were some, well, there's no other word, but some odd letters that she did receive and there was one individual who was clearly obsessed with her and stalking her. The police have also approached the national... Fell in love with her. ...criminal crime faculty at Brams Hill in Hampshire for assistance. There they can get access to expert psychological advice which will allow them to develop a profile of the killer. The psychologist's report helped with the type of background he would likely have or experience he may have or convictions he may or may not have. What do you mean by a loner? We all know people who are, you know, not very gregarious. Do you mean, you know, as that witness said, a bit of a funny one? Yes, there is something odd about him, but he might be alone but isolated, either emotionally isolated, not married, having difficulty with previous relationships with girlfriends. There will be an obviousness about this separate, separate away from society in groups of people. Will you say obsessional about Joe? You mean something very... Gowan Avenue is a typical residential street in West London. There's a tight impact on the terrorist houses, cars parked on the side of the road, on the morning of the shooting. There must have been nearly 80 people passing through Gowan Avenue. At the actual time of the shooting, there was none. You know, it's crazy, West London, he's there. From what y'all told me about West London, West London is like... It's very rich, it's very posh. But at the same time, the hood is like very, very close. But, you know, in my mind, the hood ain't do this. The hood ain't do this. So somebody seen it? I heard the scream. I did hear a scream. Did you hear a man's voice or anything like that? No, man's voice at all. Did you hear a shot or did you...? It was no shots. You saw this man yourself? I have a particular vision of the guy. Yes, I did see him. What exactly was he doing? How close were you? What did he do? He walked very calmly away from the scene. And when I actually saw him, I thought nothing of it. I thought, in fact, it could have been a friend of Jill's when I heard the screaming. That's why I particularly at that moment didn't do anything that now I wish I could have done. Shoulda coulda woulda, you're capping. Get off the screen. I don't believe him. Gunshot. And he didn't react to the scream. The scream or the cry was indicative of something to us that Jill Dando had clearly in those last moments recognized danger, seen danger, and was reacting to it. Otherwise, why scream? As far as the one can be certain of anything, the man walking away at a relatively fast pace was the person who had killed Jill Dando. The Invisible Months. BBC One, a Happy New Year. 250 days after the murder. This is a high-profile 200... Okay. This growing concern, the enquiry is beginning to falter and with no immediate prospect of an arrest, detectives are increasingly under pressure to come up with a result. Sometimes I felt we were a day away from solving it, and other times I thought, no, we're a long way away. Other senior officers, you know, they were asking, what are the likelihoods of this case being resolved? Chick-fil-A. How much had been pumped into the enquiry? Well, it's a considerable... considerable sum of money, really. We have something like 700 witness statements that have been made, and something like 7,000 sort of faxes and telephone calls that have been received. Information that all has to be gone through very carefully. We had over 2,000 people named as potential suspects or responsible. Some actions to trace and eliminate, one person might take a day. One action might take two weeks. There's thousands of them. That's the issue of managing strange homicides. You're looking at it and thinking, how do you know which one is it? It's right, then. Here after Jill Dando was gunned down on her doorstep, no one has been charged with her murder. The police are suggesting more strongly than ever that it was a stalker who shot her. I remember writing in one of my decision logs that maybe the answer lies in the single loner individual. How is it we've spent all this time, all this major attention, all this information, and we haven't heard a single thing really as to who it is. Be good, y'all. And then this... Well, not so far. Y'all ain't even going in the right direction, in my opinion. This is not an average person. The absence of anything good is because of that too, it might be. I return to the loner, they infatuated the psychopath, they're disturbed, they're obsessed. They're all equally capable of planning good luck and the ability to hurt and harm. My own notes show that this is the most likely explanation. The witnesses of the 26th of April and the earlier days show a man loitering in the street. Can it really be possible that this is 10 or 15 different men or one man seen through different eyewitnesses and lenses, thus explaining the various discrepancies that we have? Not only have we not seen one piece of evidence or information, Joe Dando was the subject of a contract killing. The location of her death points away from contract. It's not the location anyone would choose, because there was simply no guarantee on knowledge that she would ever appear then. And it was shortly after that, by coincidence, part of the inquiries that the man, Balsara, stroke Gad, stroke George, came into the inquiry. Appreciate you. Wait, nothing happened when you did that. I gotta fix that. The person that they came to believe was the prime suspect, Barry George, had been sitting in their inquiry all along. Lying in this massive information that had flooded into the inquiry in the early days. They had these act flooded into the inquiry in the early days. They had these actions that had been generated that they'd never acted on. One of them was to trace, interview, and eliminate. Wait, what? He was the prime suspect, Barry George, had been sitting in the inquiry all along and the prime suspect, Barry George, had been sitting in their inquiry all along. Prime suspect, Barry George, had been sitting in the inquiry all along, okay? Lying in this massive information that had flooded into the inquiry in the early days. They had these actions that had been generated that they'd never acted on. So he's been in there. Somebody been saying something about this dude, but Charlie ain't do nothing. One of them was to trace, interview, and eliminate. Somebody called Barry Balsaro, I think was the first name that came into the inquiry. Damn, my God. Whose name had been given to them by this little organization that support people with disabilities called HAFAD. Not that far from where Jill Dando lived. He left HAFAD and went to try and get a lift, a free lift from a taxi, and he'd been at this taxi company. The taxi company ran completely independently. So we had this guy, again, agitated, hanging around, sued after the murder and trying to get out of the area, but he didn't have any money. The following day, they rang again and said the same person had come back and tried to plan false adiblies. And said the same person had come back and tried to plan false adiblies. Tried to plan false adiblies. So y'all had this man named in a stack of papers for a year. Didn't do what I was supposed to do until a year later. A year plus later. I just said it at the beginning of this. Like, yo, stop doing the work that I was supposed to do without jumping to conclusions and do the proper police work. There was a weakness in the system that they were using now, which has been resolved, that it wasn't an effective method of cross-referencing information. But even that, because they didn't have... There wasn't a single name. It wasn't Barry George, Barry George, Barry George. It was Bolsara, this strange man living in the road with different names coming in. The police recognised at the time it was a failure that the significance of them should have become apparent to them sooner. I think you have to see it in the context of, you know, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of messages coming in. The delay was... I don't got to see it in no context. Okay, the information is coming at me quickly. Y'all might have to sift through everything, but that's y'all's job. Y'all got to work and get paid to do that. So do it properly. Unavoidable. It was embarrassing with the scale of the work that was required. What?! A voidable, which is coming in. The delay was unavoidable in comparison with the scale of the work that was required. I've reexamined detail all you know of this subject. Some of it has come too slowly to my attention. It represents and answers many of the questions and problems with this investigation. It's therefore essential that he is either eliminated or implicated as quickly as possible. We are one year behind him. I think as soon as... I don't even know because he looked guilty. As they interviewed him then, I think he began to loom larger in their considerations. He'd been to jail for attempted rape. He had been convicted of posing as a police officer. He tried to join the police and he'd been rejected and he'd cut up the rejection letter and tried to create a kind of warrant card out of it. That doesn't make him a killer, but it's certainly quite odd. It's a weirdo. So we had his background. He lived locally. He was what I would call within the scene almost. And so there were a number of markers which came up to say, let's just pursue this. And that's how I then authorised the search warrant. From the search of George's house, more information came to light and the material which caused us to be a me, certainly extremely concerned about who it was who had come into our inquiry. One of the key things that was found was many roles of film, undeveloped, old-fashioned camera film, which we actually obviously got developed or hundreds of photographs of women. Certainly one, maybe two, we're in Gowan Avenue. George had notes there of... George was a hoarder. He's a hoarder. Look at this mess. In his house, a number of business cars for firearms dealers. In amongst the undeveloped footage, film was a photograph of him clearly taken by somebody else holding a semi-automatic starting gun. The type of weapon which the forensic scientists a year earlier had indicated would be one of the weapons which could have discharged that bullet. The search didn't reveal a direct link to the killing of Danda. It was because there was nothing to link. But what the search revealed was some circumstantial connections to the crime scene. I'm not lying, buddy. It's overly weird. The witnesses, a number of them, talked about a man with a three-quarter-length coat or a dark coat and another witness had seen it. And then here was a dark three-quarter-length coat. And so at that time it was photographed. And then it was going to be examined for any subsequent forensic trace. When that was subsequently examined after it had been photographed, there was this a single particle of gunshot residue in the inside jacket pocket of the coat. Okay. So, okay. Gunshot residue which actually had and contained the same elements of lead, barium, and antimony as the gunshot residue, which was both on the cartridge case and in the head hair of the womb of Gildan. Okay. So, okay. So what are we doing now then? There's no doubt in my investigative mind it's discovery and reporting added to the situation and the position. I mean, it could have been a firearms particle of a different constituents because the firearm residue is of different types, types one to five, really. So it was a type two constituent match of the other chemical elements. Well, he could just as easily have said, well, actually it's type one or type four. That would have been a floundering point as well. And of all the five types, it was this one. So it's, but it is one piece, but nevertheless, I'm not going to, you know, hide. Why are you keep telling me that it could have been this, it could have been that, it could have been this, it could have been that. It could have been type one, it could have been type four, it could have been type five, but that ain't what it was. It was type two. What are we talking about? It's type one constituent match of the other chemical elements to five, really. So it was a type two constituent match of the other chemical elements. Well, he could just as easily have said, well, actually it's type one, type four. That would have been a floundering point as well. But out of all the five types, it was this one. Okay. So it's one piece, but nevertheless, I'm not going to, you know, hide behind the point. I thought it was, I thought it had some relevance to the case. Me too. Police hunting Jill Dando's killer have arrested a man on suspicion of murder. One year after the shooting, detectives say it's a highly significant development. Well, the police told us this morning that somebody had been arrested on suspicion of Jill's murder. And while we were very interested in that development, like everybody else, we just have to wait and see what progress is now forthcoming. Yeah, Medad and I thought, well, it might have been a breakthrough. There was evidence, they had evidence, but that it wasn't the end of the story. Well, we know it can be held for 24 hours. After that time, there has to be an extension of a further 12 hours. The decision made to arrest... Oh, so they said that was circumstantial? Nah, for sure. George was mined with other scene officers directly involved in that decision-making. The suspect was brought to the central London police station where he was questioned about the murder of the TV presenter. Did you kill Jill Dando's George? No, sir. Why is your interest in Jill Dando? I'm having an interest in Jill Dando, sir. One day, when Mr. George was seen and he made his statement, he was very clear where he was and what he had done. When he was arrested, he then changed the account of where he was and moved his timing and what he did quite differently. Did you ever buy the G145A? So he was in there, y'all had evidence. He wasn't sticking to his story. He had already went to the taxi cab to try to cover up what was going on. Tell me to blank-fire in government automatic. Have you ever possessed one of those? No, sir. Have you ever handled one of those? No, sir. Have you ever fired one of those? No, sir. Barry George said he never had firearms, owned firearms, used firearms, or discharged firearms. Sure about that? So we were then left with this single piece of invisible gunshot residue in his pocket. But y'all also had the picture, right? I know it's circumstantial, but like, they got it tied. I had a picture of him holding the blick. The one that they said that might could be possibly used in that homicide. In my experience, the Crown Prosecution Service doesn't rush to charge unless it feels it has a sufficiency of evidence. That's a fact. Yeah, that's a fact in the UK. And in my personal experience of Hamish, he is a man who will go out of his way to disprove as much as prove because of the gathering of evidence. No preconceived ideas. The discovery of the particle and its establishment has the same type of gunshot residue as what was on the casing and her hair. It was just one tiny element in the connecting of all these other factors. It sat there just as that. Did it contribute towards a decision to charge or decide to charge? Yes, it would have done. But it wasn't the only factor. Good evening. A man has been charged with the murder of the BBC television presenter, Jill Dando. This evening, the detective leading the inquiry left Hammersmith Police Station after charging Barry Rosara with murder under his original name, Barry Michael George. I must admit, I wasn't convinced that he was the person who had done it. Anybody with three first names is drawn suspicion for me. But his first name is Barry. His second name is Michael. What was it? Well... Barry with murder under his original name, Barry Michael George. He got three first names. He's very suspicious, in my opinion. All the evidence, then, three first names on top of that? Come on, man, what's going on? I must admit, I wasn't convinced that he was the person who had done it. You're all good, buddy. It just didn't seem completely feasible to me. Because, was it? It just seems... It all seems a little bit contrived. Um... Unconvenient. There was very much a feeling among some, you know, sections of the media that Barry George had been kind of picked on, lighted upon as, you know, the local weirdo, if you like, who the police could drape the case around. Well, there's always been the view in the media and elsewhere that the police had chose Barry George somehow as a scapegoat and, to want a better word, a patsy for the investigation team because we couldn't solve it and did that somewhat insulting and just completely untrue. It's possible, though. I'm like, okay. Let's not act like that's never happened before, but, like, with the... y'all found a lot of evidence, in my opinion. And wrong. None of the things... I think in this case it's... Yeah, I think in this particular case that's not correct, but... It was at one minute to eleven o'clock that the senior treasury... Right. ...counsel Orlando Pownall for the Crown began to outline the prosecution case. The trial lasted for something like 52 days of legal argument and evidence. But there are compelling categories of circumstantial and forensic and scientific evidence which, when taken together, proved that the defendant was the man in Gowan Avenue who was responsible for killing Gildando. For him to have done it, all the stars would have had to be aligned. People didn't notice that he was walking around with a gun. He would have had to be there at the right time. How did he know how to do it? There were all these questions where he thought that someone like Barry George wouldn't have been capable of doing it. The evidence... How do you figure? Wait, go back? Go back to what? I know this is the cousin. Like, it's her thought process. She challenged me, and I was like, I'm going to be the truth. I was like, the police is going to cut it down? I was like, I want to bring back in. He was like, it's the truth that's coming around. I was like, I'm gonna break this matter up, and then there was a conflict of reality wouldn't have been capable of doing it. Barry George got three first names. He was in a picture with a blick, with a mask on. He had an oversized leather coat with a bubble at the bottom. What more did you need from Barry? What are we doing? The evidence has been heard. Now it is being weighed. And the name is number one court counsel for the prosecution and the defense of presenting their final arguments on the guilt or innocence of Barry Michael George. The jury for the guilt or innocence counsel for the prosecution and the denial it is being weighed. In the old bail is number one court counsel for the prosecution and the defense of presenting their final arguments on the guilt or innocence of Barry Michael George. The jury, I think, after being out for something approaching five days, one could see on their faces when they came back into court there must have been a very difficult decision. Some of them are crying, there was a lot of distress. There's a huge amount of tension in the court room. So no one really could predict which way. This one, I couldn't be one of the jurors. I could never do it. Because I'm coming back guilty with no, with a straight face, not a piece of emotion. Jumping to conclusions, it's too much for me. Okay. Guilty. Okay. The day that he was found guilty, I was in my office and I just sobbed. And I can't tell you why I sobbed. It wasn't relief. It wasn't celebration. I have absolutely no idea what it was, but I think it was just the fact that it marked a point in time through, and it was maybe even relief from everything that we've gone through over the previous couple of years. I was surprised when Barry George was convicted. My personal view was that there was evidence on which one could see a conviction. But for me, if I'd been on that jury, I didn't think that the evidence was sufficient to justify a conviction. She was guilty. I don't know, but... The thing that really sealed his fate in the end was a single particle of firearms residue. When they found a particle, I was always very skeptical of that. As soon as you enter some scientific evidence, which could raise any doubts at all, then there is always the prospect that it crashes and burns. George was driven back to prison. His appeal failed. His conviction upheld. They have taken evidence and they've used it, and there is no evidence to convict Barry. This is just appalling. If people were to read the information and understand the four facts, I think, like the jury, they would need to be assured that Barry George murdered Ms. Dando. Who this? Forensic scientist Angela Shaw. OK, what you got for us, Angela? I'm Angela Shaw. I am a forensic scientist. My era of expertise is in gunshot residue, and I've been an expert in that field for 20 years. 20, 19. Four years later, Barry George's legal team made a new submission to the criminal cases review committee. Was Barry rich? Yeah, the lawyer was working for a long time. The criminal case review commission will review any cases where a legal party puts forward any grounds that they think could mean that the conviction was unsafe. So it was mid-2006. The criminal case review commission basically felt that there had been a change in policy by the forensic science service, which I was involved in writing, that would change the significance of the weight that was placed on a single particle. We ultimately felt that it wasn't a change, but they felt that there had been a significant change. And the Barry George case was a minor influence in writing that document, mainly because there was a disproportionate amount of attention the media placed on the finding of a single particle. In the case of the particle found in the pocket of Barry George, we would now categorize that as a type two gunshot residue particle. Similar particles were found on spent casing found on the doorstep. Right, we've already been through this. And also on Jill Dandle's hair, what you could say was that they were indistinguishable from each other. They were indistinguishable from each other. And therefore, the spent casing could have been a source of the particle in Barry George's coat pocket. Okay, yeah. But there was a key question that hadn't been asked at the trial. That was, what was the significance of a single particle in a coat pocket a year after a shooting? If you're traveling around on the London Underground or on a bus, obviously there's a lot of hobby shooters. You have armed police officers who will travel around using public transport. It is rare, but we do estimate that you might pick up a particle. One in a hundred people might pick up a particle unknowingly, which is why we don't put any evidential weight on a single particle. They'd be bringing the slightest stuff to my attention. I forgot all about that. Well, how, okay. A single particle a year later in a coat pocket could not link Barry George to the shooting. My view was, well, okay, there are numerous ways a single particle or any number of it could have got into his pocket. And they're all but one of them must be legitimate and fair inadvertent contaminating. Nah, she did have a great point. That was a solid point. I'm mad that I said all that and then she brought it to my attention with seven minutes left in the video. You know what I'm saying? I didn't talk bad about Barry. I still, oh, keep, hey, listen. He's been to somewhere or bumped into somebody who has gunshot residue and so on. They're all perfectly possible. One other option, of course, was a more draconian one or dramatic one, was it, in fact? He got it from firing a gun, but you can't say that. It has no value on its own. He doesn't say that he was or he wasn't the person involved in the shooting. So it's gonna have to be disallowed. It doesn't prove involvement in the shooting. So that got thrown out, that piece of evidence, is that what he's in? And therefore case overturned. And conclusive, and... Ah, okay. Barry Georges clears the murder of two days. A free man tonight after eight years of his sister says the family's finally found justice. They've finally got justice. Yes, that's fine. Is she just practice? Barry Georges clears the murder of two days. A free man tonight after eight years of his sister says the family's finally found justice. They've finally got justice. Yes, that's fine. He served eight years, though. Honestly, if Barry wasn't guilty of this, he was guilty of something. And the man did his time. Barry Georges is a free man tonight, cleared of the murder of the TV presenter, Jill Dando. We've been fighting for many years. Now we need time to get back together as a family. We also hope that the police will now look again into the murder of Jill Dando. Thank you. Wrongfully convicted, that's hearsay. Throughout this trial, his defense maintained that this is a man with serious psychological problems and a very low intellect. That made him incapable of carrying out this crime. Now, Scotland Yard say they stand by their methods. The first thing I want to say is that we're disappointed that today's verdict, but we're especially disappointed for Jill's family and friends. However, we accept and respect the decision of the court this afternoon. You know, you move on and you don't forget. It was hard work. It was a commitment and energy and drive by everybody to try to find a real resolution to the case. But you didn't for this one in the end. We as an investigation team brought someone before the courts. And that is what we had to do. So we made the investigation, came to a conclusion and submit the evidence. You know, the outcome is entirely out of our hands. You're either guilty or you're not guilty. It's not really determining what you mean by innocence. So those are decisions made by the court and that's what we have to live with. When Barry George was finally acquitted, on the evidence the jury heard, I think he was rightly acquitted. I'd have acquitted him. Without that single piece of, you know, that particle of firearms residue, one can see what the dent that made to the evidence against him. Because that was really the only thing that connected him to the actual event. Whether one does or doesn't believe Barry George did it, Barry George is an innocent man in the eyes of the law. And that is the end of the discussion. Oh, yeah, who is this? You're coming over here talking about like, you know what I'm saying? Whether one does or doesn't believe Barry George did it, Barry George is an innocent man in the eyes of the law. And that is the end of the discussion. I mean, that's a fact that, like, dang. Do you ever think that it'll get solved? So it's unsolved now. 2008, what's that? 12, 15 years ago? Do I think somebody will come back to court? Probably not. Do you think that someone new might come to court? No. Unsolved, that's crazy. I would like to see somebody charged and convicted. But I would just like to know... It's too late now. It's 24 years ago. I don't know why someone would want to kill him. You know, I would like somebody... It's over with... The person who did it to be able to tell me or to be able to tell a jury or a judge why it happened. And that would be fine. He probably got his karma already. He probably is unalived somewhere. That would put my mind at rest. And that would be the closure for me. Do you think that you ever will? I remain hopeful that that will happen. We're 20 years on now. So the odds are against it, but I live in hope. It's a sad place to live. We, in the general sense, have been left unfulfilled by what could have been her ongoing potential. And I think that she was on a journey. She would have still been out here probably being great. She was only halfway up that mountain. What is raw when it happens is less raw, much less raw. 20 years on. But I'm really proud that we have the Jill Dando Institute in Jill's name, from undergraduates through to masters and PhD students, doctorates. We've got people who are looking at forensics and particularly in flaws of forensics, how they can mislead us. And we're trying to support police in bringing much, much more preventative effort to crime. She'd be proud of it, immensely proud of it, I'm sure. And that stands as a lasting legacy to her. The moment that changed all of our lives was that moment when that happened and Jill was killed. You would like to hold somebody accountable, but it won't change things. Whoever did that is still around. And I'm not convinced that you can hide something like that forever, but we'll see. That was a W way to end, man. I feel like I went through all my emotions in this one. I was convinced that John Jacob Jingleheimer-Smiths did it. What was his name? John George Michael? Something. That's crazy, though, man. If you want to tell a little, leave a like, comment, subscribe, turn on your post notification bells, man. Let me know in the comments if y'all thought he was guilty, because I definitely thought he was. I'm gone.