 who's even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. Verse 35, Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written for your sake, we are killed all day long. We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Yet, in all these things, we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor heights, nor death, nor any other created thing shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus, our Lord. Very encouraging scripture, very inspiring, and also enabling words that we see here. Paul is asking that question, who shall separate us? Who is he who condemns? Who shall separate us from the love of God? And then he makes that declaration. He says, OK, shall tribulation, will any of these things separate us from the love of God? Tribulation, persecution, danger, nakedness, peril, and sword, meaning any violent act towards us, shall it separate us from the love of God? And then he goes on to declare, retranfinitely, yet in all these things, we are more than conquerors, not by our own selves. He says, through Him who loved us. And then in the verses following, he says, these things cannot separate us. Neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor death, nor any other created thing. None of these things shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus, our Lord. So he's talking about the agape love of God extended to us, expressed to us through Christ our Lord. He says, we will not be separated from Him through any of these things. But the only thing is this, the one thing that can actually separate us from the love of God is we ourselves. The one person or one, if you want to say who can separate us, it is just we. It is our choice and our decision to walk away from the love of God. Yeah, we can separate us, but none of these created things, none of these trials, none of these challenges can actually separate us from the love of God. Because we know all these things, we are more than conquerors. So let's pray and let's offer ourselves to the Lord and just thank Him for His love and thank Him for this promise that none of these things, none of these external things that we might experience in life can separate us from the love of God, though they might try to do that. But we'll be careful to give ourselves to Him and draw continually towards Him and say, God, I don't want to walk away from that love that You have for me. Yeah, let's pray. Father, we thank You Lord for these words. We thank You for this promise. We thank You for this declaration that in all these things, Lord, whatever we go through life's challenges, God, in all these things, we are more than conquerors through You, Christ Jesus. For greater is He that is in me, that is in us than He that is in the world. We thank You that You indwell us. We thank You that You indwell us with Your love, Father God. And we thank You that nothing can separate us from Your love. Nothing can separate us from Your love, Father God. We thank You for this entire descriptive list of God that nothing that is created, nothing that is spiritual, no principality, no power, no demon can separate us from Your love, Father God. It is just we who choose to walk away. And so Lord, I pray that today, Lord, that we will draw near, that we will strengthen, Lord, our commitment towards You, God. Even as we are recipients of Your amazing love, amazing grace, Lord, maybe walk in that, in the fullness of that, maybe walk faithful to the call. We thank You. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen. So let's turn to what we are continuing today. In the last class we looked at conflicts and I think in the last couple of sessions we looked at conflicts and how we need to, how we can overcome conflicts, resolve conflicts. We saw that conflicts are a reality in life, in marriage especially when we are living in such close proximity with another person. So there is bound to be conflict and we saw the reasons, differences, physical difference, the psychological difference, difference in our personality, so many things contributing to a conflict. A conflict meaning it could be a sharp argument, it could be a disagreement, it could be an intense, maybe even a quarrel. So it is possible to have conflicts, so we should not be afraid, we should not be surprised or startled because of conflicts, but we should choose to resolve them and resolve in the right way possible. So we looked at those seven steps and it would be good for us to revisit that and see how we can actually put them in our lives. It's one thing to study, it's one thing to go through and say okay, it sounds wonderful, it sounds good, but when it actually happens you realize that it takes a lot out of you because you need to rely on Lord, lean on Him and be led by Him because we need His wisdom and we need His, the Spirit of God to just heal us and bring us to that place of wanting to revisit some of those painful things, wanting to talk about some of those painful things and wanting to settle those things in the best way possible. So it's going to take a lot out of us, but it'll be with the empowering of the Holy Spirit. It's not just us sorting it in isolation, but we actually have got the source, we are connected to the vine and that's the beautiful thing. Okay, so today we're looking at chapter 11 and chapter 11 and 12. I'm just going to just go through a little quickly and then go on to the next one. We'll see if there's time. Okay, so chapter 11 is about overcoming life's challenges, overcoming life's challenges. And so we need to understand just like how we looked at conflicts, we need to understand that yes, there are challenges that we will face in life, in certain seasons of our lives. There are challenges that we will face as individuals, there are challenges that we will face as a married couple. So these are for everybody, just because we are believers, we believe in the Almighty God, the Creator of heaven and earth, the sovereign Lord, that does not mean that we will not face challenges, different kinds of challenges. So challenges also, maybe we've lived a very sheltered life, maybe we've lived a very easy life and praise God, all the good things that have happened, but we need to understand that yes, open to the possibility of challenges, difficulties. In fact, the Lord Jesus Himself promised that these would come. He promised His presence during challenges. He promised His peace during challenges. If you look at John chapter 16 and verse 33, let me put that up. John chapter 16 and verse 33, in the New King James it reads like this, these things I have spoken to you that in me you may have peace, in the world you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer. He says, but be of good cheer, in this world you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer. I have overcome the world. So He is the Overcomer and He has overcome the world and so because He has overcome, He says be of good cheer. So which means that He has overcome, He has got the victory and He is extending that victory to us, that overcoming ability to us and that victory to us. In the Amplified it reads like this, I have told you these things so that in me you may have perfect peace and confidence. In the world you will have tribulations and trials and distress and frustration, but be of good cheer, meaning take courage, be confident, certain, undaunted, for I have overcome the world. I have deprived it of power to harm you and have conquered it for you. Another scripture is 1 Corinthians 10 and verse 13. 1 Corinthians 10 and verse 13 where it uses the word temptation and which in the context it can be translated as tests. 1 Corinthians 10 and verse 13 says no temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man, but God is faithful who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape that you may be able to bear it. So here it is talking about strength. In the message Bible this is how it reads, no test or temptation that comes your way is beyond the course of what others have had to face. All you need to remember is that God will never let you down. He will never let you be pushed beyond, pushed past your limit. He will always be there to help you come through it. So we see that these two scriptures talk about endurance, talk about the fact that yes, there could be trials and tribulations, but he has overcome and the good thing is he gives us the overcoming ability for us to go beyond that and overcome. So let's just talk about these challenges for a minute, just one second. So when we see that these challenges, the way we face it is very important. So now we have this promise, now we have this assurance from God that he will enable us to overcome or he has overcome. So it depends on how we face these challenges, because challenges can actually make us, or hardships, can make us very cynical, for example. It can make us cynical in the sense we lose our sense of incense, we lose our sense of wonder and expectation, and we become very, very cynical in life. We could become very, very cynical in life because we face constant hardships. We are like, okay, we're almost like given up saying, okay, this is how life is. And there's no faith, there's no hope, there's no expectation. And we begin to talk negative and put down everything else. So we could become cynical, we could even become bitter, we could become angry with God. So all we can just completely give up, completely check out of life and say, okay, this is it. I'm just giving up. I don't have the strength to carry on. I don't have the will to carry on. I'm just giving up. So just imagine if in a marriage setting, in a marriage that because of these things that you're facing or hardships that we give up, now it's not only affecting you personally and whatever you do personally, like maybe your work, your career, ministry, but it's also affecting others who are connected to you, especially wife or husband and family, children, everything. Every relationship gets affected negatively. So we need to face these challenges with the right perspective. Look at this. Let's just go through these vows, the wedding vows, that we may have said for those of us who are married. This is how it is. The groom places the ring on the bride's finger and the bride places the ring on the groom's finger. And something like this is normally said to one another. Okay, with this ring, I take you to be my wife slash husband to have and to hold from this day forward for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer. In sickness and in health, to love and to cherish till death do us part according to God's holy word. I give you this ring as a sign of constant faith and abiding love with my body. I honor you and all that I am, I give to you. This is my solemn vow. So this is the promise, this is the vow, this is the covenant when we make that covenant of marriage. This is what we say to each other. Or as single people, this is what you would say to one another one day. But the thing is this, whenever we say okay for richer, we're able to identify okay. Or when we say for poorer or for worse or for in sickness, in our minds it's like okay, that's never going to happen. That's never going to happen. That's not going to happen to us. And we forget that if at all it happens when we face those kind of challenges, we face those trials that we sometimes even forget these walls. And it begins to affect the marriage for better or for worse. Now we say it during the wedding ceremony and it's nice, it's wonderful, everybody's happy. And that's how it should be. The joy saying you're happy. But the reality of what we say doesn't really sink in. Very few people actually think about that and say yes, even if this happens, I give you this vow. This covenant that I'm making is even during those times. Even as you walk during those times, maybe as a single person, you had enough and more and you could afford a lot of things. But once you get married, once you got married, well, you see that there are responsibilities, there are expenses and so on. The expenses, if not doubled, it's more than what you could do as a, what you could spend or what you could save as a single person. So the expenses are more. So in such cases, then you realize that, oh, it's a big difficulty. I can't afford the things that I used to. Maybe it's a season. You're not able to afford the things that you used to. You're not able to live the way you used to. You're not able to eat out the way you used to. And then it begins to affect. You begin to look at it and say, oh, she's the problem or he's the problem. I'm not able to live the good life that I used to live anymore. But we forget that, well, you made that vow for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer. And it's the same also when it comes to maybe your health, physical health, maybe your health or the other person's health. And that begins to affect how you live your life. These are realities of life. Maybe it didn't be throughout your life, but it can be a season. It can be for a short time, for a short time period. But even that puts a lot of pressure on marriage. And if we are not careful, that could begin to affect. There could be unmet expectations. You know, you thought this is how your spouse would be or this is how married life would be. And it doesn't turn out that way. And, you know, when also it could be like, you know, before you got married, all those small, small differences, all those small differences, all those minor things, you thought, okay, we can just brush that, it's okay, brush that past and we can go beyond that. But now, you know, maybe you thought it would not become a problem, but now it is. These are major things, these are like mountains. And no matter how many times you try to, you know, address that or talk about it, but it's still there, it's not gone away. And, you know, you just want to give up on marriage itself, right? So the thing is, you know, these are some realities. Or maybe there's verbal violence, there's domestic physical violence and abuse in a marriage. You know, these are things that we don't even, you know, you don't wish for, you don't desire. When we get married, we, you know, it's not something that you have in mind. And these are things that you, that you think it will not happen to us, right? But, you know, maybe things change, maybe certain things contributed to it. It could be an addiction, maybe we left an open door for the enemy to walk in, maybe it was just to work up the flesh and all these things, you know, anger and rage and there's abuse and violence and unforgiveness and hatred and then more violence and so on. And yes, you know, couples find themselves in such situations and then on the verge of giving up, okay? Not wanting to really overcome, but wanting to give up, okay? Now, other things could be abandonment, you know, one of them just abandoning, not taking up responsibilities, either as a wife or a husband, just leaving everything and saying, okay, I've had enough. I, you know, just living the good life. Just saying, okay, you take care of everything, I'm just going to come and go. I'm just going to come, I'm just going to be there, I'm just going to just flow through. This is how it is. Or it could also be unfaithfulness. You know, somebody is unfaithful, there's an affair, there's a, you know, there's a relationship, extra, marital relationship, trust is broken, there's adultery and well, there's unfaithfulness. So how does one do, how does one, you know, face those things? So we see that in all these kinds of scenarios, right, that could happen, right? We say, okay, I'm a believer, it will never happen. You know, the other person is a believer. The South spouse is a believer that could never happen now. Now, I was just saying that in case it happens, if, you know, it happens, the Word of God says that you are an overcomer, right? The scripture that we read and we prayed, we said, okay, none of these things can separate us from the love of God. So if it does not separate us from you, separate you from the love of God, which means that God is with you and with him working in us, we are more than conquerors through him who loved us, right? If you look at 1 John chapter 5, let's just, okay, 1 John chapter 5, and verse 1, verse 4, these are scriptures on how we are overcomers, how we have received overcoming ability because of Christ. Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God and everyone who loves him will be God, also loves him who is begotten of him, okay? Then we go down to verse 4, and whatever is born of God overcomes the world and this is the victory that has overcome the world of faith, okay? So if you read the message, every person who believes that Jesus is, in fact the Messiah is God begotten, born of God. If we love the one who conceives the child, we'll surely love the child who is conceived. Every God begotten person conquers the world's ways. The conquering power that brings the world to its knees is our faith, okay? So very encouraging again, the fact that we are overcomers, the fact that just because we are born of God, we overcome the world because we carry the overcoming ability within us and what really enables us to overcome the world is our faith, our faith in him, our faith in his word, our faith, the faith that we have knowing that he is with us, knowing that he is the overcomer. So we are overcomers. Second Corinthians chapter 2 and verse 14, now thanks be to God who always leads us in triumph in Christ, okay? Just listen to those words, who always leads us in triumph in Christ and through us diffuses the fragrance of his knowledge in every place, okay? Now, second Corinthians chapter 2 and Paul is writing from a lot of experience there. He has experienced hardships and he has experienced the victories, right? So it comes from a lot of experience and having experienced the victory and the hardships and this is what he writes. He says, thanks be to God who always leads us in triumph in Christ. So in the midst of those situations, in a marriage, we can say, we can only say that yes, God will lead us in triumph in Christ and through us diffuses the knowledge of his knowledge in every place. And so we will overcome, we will come through and there is purpose after we come through. There is a mission, there is a responsibility that he will diffuse his knowledge through us, right? So don't let the past or your present dictate your future. Many times we affect the past. I mean, we let the past affect our present and we let our present situations and circumstances dictate how our future should be. How future is shaped. We don't have to. We don't have to. We can take a hold of who we are, take a hold of who God is, what he has promised and what he declares over us, the truth that he declares over us as our declaration. We can take hold of that and not just be passive and not just let go of things and let the past affect our present or things that are happening right now affect our future. See, there are certain things that cannot be reversed. Maybe they were unfaithful. Now, there's no reversing it. It happened. It's a thing that happened. Maybe there was a death of a spouse passing away. Now, these are things that have happened. Very painful. But we can move. We can go ahead. Why? Because God has a plan and purpose and we can fulfill the destiny, the plan, purpose that God has for us. Despite all these things that have happened, we can go on to fulfill the destiny that God has for us. So, despite what is happening in the present, we can go on. We don't have to become a prisoner of the past. So, these are some things to keep in mind. To overcome a challenge is not necessarily to reverse the situation. So, it means, will things come back to normal in that scenario? Maybe there was a, can it be like it never happened? We cannot reverse it. It happened. But we can triumph over that. We can go past that because we are overcomeers. It says, whatever is born of God overcomes the world. Now, these are things that happen in the world. So, as a married couple or even as a spouse who goes through this, you can overcome. But there are certain things that we need to keep in mind in order to overcome, in order to not become a prisoner of the past. In order to not lose out on what God has for us. In order to not lose that grip on the plans, the purposes that God has for us. Here are some practical things to keep in mind. The first thing is to guard our heart. So, as a couple, as a spouse and also as single people who will be married one day. These are very important things, not just good, very important things to keep in mind. Indispensable things to keep in mind. These are some things, tools that I require and I'm going to keep it close to my heart. So, one of the first things is to guard your heart. Proverbs 4 verse 23, keep your heart with all diligence, which means to guard it. Keep, it means to guard with all diligence for out of it issues, spring the issues of life. So, what does that mean? That means that what comes out of our heart, what flows out of our heart, because God puts certain things in us, revelation, understanding, everything He puts in us. So, what flows out is very important. So, but if we kind of cut away that flow of God putting things in our heart, then we're not really guarding our heart. Or if we allow certain things to creep in into our minds, like unforgiveness, or unbelief, or, you know, these are big things, right, and even bitterness, and having a cynical attitude, so, and all kind of negativity, a pessimistic attitude. It's very easy to slip into that if you don't guard our hearts, right. So, we need to guard, sometimes we are temperamentally that way. You know, we normally just think about the negative things. Maybe that's how we grew up, right. We think of the negatives, you know, what if this goes wrong? You know, what if this does not happen? You know, we always see the, see life as, you know, as a glass half empty, and not half filled, there's a difference, right. You can look at a glass and say, you can look at a glass of water and say, okay, it is half filled or half empty. So, no matter what, we need to guard our heart. Maybe you're saying, temperamentally this is how it was, this is how I grew up, and then we can change. So, we need to guard our heart, keep our heart with all diligence. For out of it springs the issues of life. Now, it's going to dictate how you live, your motive, your attitude, your outlook. Everything is going to change if we don't keep or guard our heart, okay. So, how do we do that? How do we guard our heart? Okay, so how do we do that? Two things, by always keeping God's word in our heart, meaning what he has spoken, what he has already spoken, what he is speaking, sorry, what he is speaking in the present, keep it in our heart, meaning you protect that, right. You keep it in front of your eyes all the time, meaning you make an intentional, you know, we make an intentional effort to see, okay, this is what God has spoken, this is what has happened, but this is what God has spoken. Okay, so I'm going to go with what God has spoken. This is what, you know, maybe because of wrong choices, maybe because of, you know, certain things that happened, you know, we don't know. Maybe because of others' decisions, maybe because of our own poor decisions, our own, you know, unrighteous actions, et cetera, all these things have happened, but I'm going to go with God's word. I'm going to keep God's word in front of me. I'm going to guard what God has put in my heart, okay. So I'm going to keep my heart on God. I'm going to keep my eyes on his word, okay. And the other thing, very important thing is proactively release any kind of, you know, negativeness, negative things that are creeping into our hearts. Release it, right? If it's so much of, you know, forgiveness, just release that unforgiveness. How do we do that by releasing forgiveness, right? Forgive that person. So release all those hurts. Don't carry them with you. So it's good, you know, at the end of the day we do it, you know, just keep short accounts, you know, just reflect on what has happened at the end of the day. I'm talking about, you know, in the marriage and say, okay, this is what happened during the day, you know, we had these arguments, we had these things and these hurtful words were spoken, you know, about me or me by my spouse, but I'm going to just release forgiveness. I'm not going to carry it into the night. I'm not going to carry it over to the next day, but I'm just going to release. And so, you know, just like resolving conflicts, you know, the first step was to just to, you know, spend time in prayer, just to get into the presence of God, saying God, acknowledging, you know, what has happened and to release all those hurts, right? So that's the first, that's the thing, important thing to do, right? And the third thing is to focus on solutions. Focus on, you know, how can I change this? How can I remedy this whole thing? How can I go beyond this? So start thinking about that and not meditating or staying on what has happened, the hurt that has happened, the tragedy that has happened. Of course, it will take time, right? But we're going to receive healing and to make an effort to step beyond that. Okay, so that's the thing, you know, our perspective changes when we guard our hearts. The second thing is to overcome evil with good. Okay, so evil thing has happened. Some negative thing has happened. Well, I feel like retaliating. I feel like taking vengeance. I feel like, you know, for all that mistrust that has happened, that has resulted because of it. I'm going to continue, you know, with that mistrust or mistrust. And I want to, you know, retaliate doing some hurtful things or speaking some hurtful things. Okay, now that's, that's what we want to do in the natural. You know, that's a fleshly response. Romans 12 19 to 21 says this, never take revenge, but instead let God's anger do it. For the scripture says, I will take revenge. I will pay back says the Lord. So let, in other words, you know, let the Lord deal with that person in however way he wants for the injustice that was done to us. Okay, so do not avenge yourselves. That's the, you know, that's the old English. But rather give place to God for it is written vengeance is mine. I will repay says the Lord was 21 do not overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. Don't let evil defeat you. Because if you're going to, you know, replay, I mean, respond with evil. It's like you're allowing evil to actually conquer you. If you're going to behave like how they behave towards you, you know, if you're going to give back, pay them back and what they paid back. So we are actually not conquering, but we are allowing evil to conquer us. Just think about that for a minute, right? It could be with your spouse, or it could be with anyone else. We are allowing evil to conquer us to take over us, take over our thought process. Take over our emotions, our character, our nature, everything, you know, we're allowing. It's like opening the door and allowing a flood of evil to come and, you know, break down whatever has been built up in our lives. And we are doing that when we make a decision to go with vengeance, when we make a decision to react in anger, lash out in anger, hit out in anger. We are actually doing that. So how do we do, how do we overcome evil with good? Well, that is what we see in, you know, in Romans 7. It's Romans 7. I'm sorry, not Romans 7. In Matthew chapter 5 and verse, 5 and verse 44, right? The Lord Jesus says, But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons, verse 45, that you may be sons of your father in heaven, for he makes his son rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust, right? So that golden rule of, you know, do good to those who hate you. I just replaced that. Do good to those who hate you. Bless those who curse and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you. You know, pray, do good, bless. So when we do that, we are actually overcoming. We are overcoming the evil that is trying to, you know, infiltrate us, infiltrate our situation. We are actually closing the door to the powers of darkness to all the demons trying to get in and affect our marriage. You know, we are just closing the door, right? So the third thing is to keep exercising our faith. Don't break down. Continue to grow stronger. This is the time to become strong and continue to go stronger in faith. Now we see several scriptures where the Lord asks the disciples in the storm, especially when it comes to that particular instance, in the storm, in the midst of the storm, when the disciples were crying out for their lives, they, you know, they said, Lord, don't you care? Our lives are in danger. The Lord turns around and asks them, you know, where is your faith? And then he speaks to the storm. So don't lose. We should not lose our faith. Our faith should not diminish during these times. We should just dig into God, you know, and say, OK, now is the time to rise up in faith. Now is the time to give up. Now is the time to rise up. So it's to any challenge, you know, it could be economic in nature, it could be like relational in nature, financial in nature. It could be any challenge that we might be facing, you know, as a couple, maybe as parents, you know, so this is the time to rise up in faith, to exercise our faith, to go with what God is saying to be courageous. OK, then the next one is to take small steps. Now, as God leads us, Psalm 23 talks about how he leads us in parts of righteousness. And as he leads us, it's many times it's one step at a time, at a time, one step at a time. So we need to take those steps. Sometimes the way out is instant. It's just one step and we are out. But sometimes it's many steps that we need to take, many small steps, and it is a path of recovery or path of restoration. And God is in both. Whether it's an instantaneous one step back or it's a path of recovery. God is in it. So we go with how he's leading. Take those small steps. Psalm 40, and let me just read that. Psalm 40 and verses 1 to 3 says, I patiently waited for the Lord and he inclined to me and heard my crying. He also brought me up out of a horrible pit out of the Myri clay and set my feet upon a rock and established my steps. Verse 3 talks about what happened after that. But if you look at verse 2, it says, the Psalmist is saying, He brought me out out of the horrible pit, out of the Myri clay, things that were pulling me down and set my feet upon a rock and established my steps. He strengthened my steps. You see, there were steps to be taken. Now he had to take those steps. The Psalmist had to take those steps. But the Lord was strengthening those steps. But it was the Psalmist who had to take those steps. The Lord wouldn't take it for the Psalmist. So the Lord would just direct and it is through His Word. It is through His presence. He would show, shine the light. And the Psalmist also talks about how the Word of God is a lamp to our feet and a light to our path. So the light that is shining, the wisdom, the understanding and the instruction to take maybe that one step. He'll shine that light. The Psalmist had to take that step. So we need to take those steps. But the Lord will do the work of establishing or making firm those steps. And even as we keep putting one feet in front of the other, these are small steps, everyday things maybe. So we're talking about all these negative scenarios. It could be this unfaithfulness that has happened, which has broken down the trust. It could be what we think is a irreparable conflict or situation, violence that has happened, verbal abuse, physical abuse that has happened. All these scenarios. So it's not just some good things. That could be a horrible, but that could be the mighty claim. But the Psalmist is saying, the Lord brought me out. The Lord brought me out. So the Lord will bring us out as well. If we would pursue Him and say, okay, God, I'm ready. I'm willing. I want to step out. So you show me. So take time, pray, be encouraged. And sometimes, yes, it could even mean that, especially in a situation where there's been physical violence, verbal violence. It has happened repeatedly over a period of time. And then, yeah, maybe as individuals, one needs to be separated for a season to calm things down, to let wisdom prevail, to receive instruction, to come to a place of being teachable and repent, and then come to a place. So even during that season, just to keep taking those small steps and not go back, but keep taking those small steps. Okay. So we'll stop here, take a break, and then get back. Thank you.